One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Diocletian on July 30, 2015, 12:12:48 AM
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http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/2015-07-29/tigers-to-wear-dreamtime-guernsey-against-hawthorn
#standbygoodes
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They can wear a g string for all I care just get the 4 stuffin points
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Racist....
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Go Hawks!!
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What a stuffn sellout.
*ptttuuui*
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So let's just boo every other swans player then.
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Well done Richmond .
Last week I was embarrassed to call Perth home. Redneck wonderland indeed.
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Racist
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It's a shame this has virtually nothing to do with Adam's ethnicity because it would be a very nice gesture.
It's also a shame that so many are so easily blinded by the promotion of political correctness.
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Yep... that's why the Richmond playing group decided to wear the DT jumpers - blinded by political correctness ::)
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Obviously just a ploy to win over Motlop.
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The whole thing is embarrassing.
The only winners are the journalists and self indulged columnists.
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It's a shame this has virtually nothing to do with Adam's ethnicity because it would be a very nice gesture.
It's also a shame that so many are so easily blinded by the promotion of political correctness.
Its a shame that so many are terrified by being branded "racist" and at the same time can't even keep their mouths shut to remove the protection that genuine racists are enjoying at the moment because that would be a breach of our "freedom of speech". That's what's pathetic.
In my book, from now on if you boo Goodes, you're a racist.
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Well Dougey, it is you who are the racist buddy
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Well Dougey, it is you who are the racist buddy
Please explain how.
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I boo Goodes, Ballantyne ,Crowley and in the past Libba as I didn't like the way the played the game
End of story
Didn't see Adam Goodes brother get booed when he played at the Dogs
And I don't hear Cyril getting booed either
You clowns can argue amongst yourselves
I am comfortable booing who I like when I like , as I did to the green maggots who walked off the ground after last weeks game
Look up "boo" in the dictionary
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In my book, from now on if you boo Goodes, you're a racist.
And serious question
What about those who don't boo but don't like the bloke for reasons that have nothing to do with his race? Are they racists too?
Or those who don't agree with his divisive comments on indigenous issues, but again they don't boo him? Are they racists?
Or is it just the booers?
Because going by the media commentary over the last 72 hours in particular anyone who has a negative opinion of the bloke is a racist.
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Well Dougey, it is you who are the racist buddy
Please explain how.
Not necessarily racist, but If you accuse someone of being a racist who isn't, that is just as defamatory as being actually racist.
The fact that this has been alleged on a massive scale could backfire in the minds of fans. Consdier the average Joe who is now being lumped in with the racists (which are probably a minority) because the afl and media decide without any specific evidence that he is a racist too
The whole thing is completely out of control and mind boggling. Just mid boggling.
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Well Dougey, it is you who are the racist buddy
Please explain how.
Boooooo
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Obviously just a ploy to win over Motlop.
you missed the memo pal. We lost out to North, i mean pies
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Well done tigers , once again , leaders in humanity :clapping
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It's a shame this has virtually nothing to do with Adam's ethnicity because it would be a very nice gesture.
It's also a shame that so many are so easily blinded by the promotion of political correctness.
Stop kidding yourself , if someone says they're hurtin , who is anyone to tell them they ain't.
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It's a shame this has virtually nothing to do with Adam's ethnicity because it would be a very nice gesture.
It's also a shame that so many are so easily blinded by the promotion of political correctness.
Its a shame that so many are terrified by being branded "racist" and at the same time can't even keep their mouths shut to remove the protection that genuine racists are enjoying at the moment because that would be a breach of our "freedom of speech". That's what's pathetic.
In my book, from now on if you boo Goodes, you're a racist.
In my book
U are a dumbass
Use your own brain - how is one racist, booing a footballer
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Well done tigers , once again , leaders in humanity :clapping
I accept their decision but I think the racism card has been overblown but I take your point how are we to know how a bloke feels.
It's just amazing how guys like goodes and Hewitt are perceived in society compared to a wayne carey.
At the end of the day do we really want to drive a bloke into the ground, mentally? Forgot about the reasons do you want that?
If so then I'm sorry your a bully not a racist. Let it go FFS. The best thing everyone could do is clap and unite, and the best thing goodes can do is walk out to shell stadium with the 13 yr girl
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The whole thing is embarrassing.
The only winners are the journalists and self indulged columnists.
x 2.
I'm ashamed that my club and players have politicized my sport and bought into an issue that has been largely fuelled by the media sycophants, something that Adam Goodes could stop tomorrow if he wasn't stage-managing the whole thing deliberately for his own selfish and political agenda.
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It's a shame this has virtually nothing to do with Adam's ethnicity because it would be a very nice gesture.
It's also a shame that so many are so easily blinded by the promotion of political correctness.
Stop kidding yourself , if someone says they're hurtin , who is anyone to tell them they ain't.
20000 children die per day
Poor professional athlete getting boooed, oh my heart yearns for him
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Most of you who remain unapologetic about your stance against Goodes and that it holds no relationship to racism in any form whatsoever would feel some kind of compassion/empathy/whatever you want to call it with someone defending to his last breath his entitlement to stand up for himself with actions/gestures that he thinks appropriate to convey his own message of hurt, anguish, pain in how he, himself, has been treated. You can kind of see how both views should be respected IMO and is quite ironic if you look at it.
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The latest revised position by the media on this, as discussed on Sen this morning goes along the line of this:-
'Ok everyone, we accept that not all the booers are racist. BUT if you boo from now on, you are providing 'coverage' for racists'.
So if one boos Adam Goodes because he stages for another free kick, they are guilty of harbouring racists. But only from now on, and not before this weekend. And basically, it's this way because we have been told it is.
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"Oh well"
"Providing coverage for racism? "
Load of wank IMHO
Chris Scott too Is a moron
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Sen:
If you don't like Goode's u are uneducated....
Hahaha
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Well, if you worked in a store and 50 people came in a each week and stood there and called you a black mongrel idiot and every name under the sun, you would expect your employer minimum would have them ejected. The employer might agree that you are a black mongrel idiot and every name under the sun, but he has a duty of care to you.
See it from the personal selfish point of view if you can't see it from an example of someone else's pain.
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The whole thing is embarrassing.
The only winners are the journalists and self indulged columnists.
x 2.
I'm ashamed that my club and players have politicized my sport and bought into an issue that has been largely fuelled by the media sycophants, something that Adam Goodes could stop tomorrow if he wasn't stage-managing the whole thing deliberately for his own selfish and political agenda.
+1
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Well, if you worked in a store and 50 people came in a each week and stood there and called you a black mongrel idiot and every name under the sun, you would expect your employer minimum would have them ejected. The employer might agree that you are a black mongrel idiot and every name under the sun, but he has a duty of care to you.
See it from the personal selfish point of view if you can't see it from an example of someone else's pain.
Actually, if you were to pay me $850,000 for working 20-30 times a year id let you say what you like and merely smile.
People calling professional footballers "a black mongrel idiot" have been kicked out of games for decades now? Have they not? They issue is the media/AFL hive-mind is claiming booing = racism. i think, it is a load of crap :bluesbros
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Well, if you worked in a store and 50 people came in a each week and stood there and called you a black mongrel idiot and every name under the sun, you would expect your employer minimum would have them ejected. The employer might agree that you are a black mongrel idiot and every name under the sun, but he has a duty of care to you.
See it from the personal selfish point of view if you can't see it from an example of someone else's pain.
Actually, if you were to pay me $850,000 for working 20-30 times a year id let you say what you like and merely smile.
But that is your choice. Others who have more self-respect should be entitled to be able to go to work and not have to put up with abuse
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Well, if you worked in a store and 50 people came in a each week and stood there and called you a black mongrel idiot and every name under the sun, you would expect your employer minimum would have them ejected. The employer might agree that you are a black mongrel idiot and every name under the sun, but he has a duty of care to you.
See it from the personal selfish point of view if you can't see it from an example of someone else's pain.
Actually, if you were to pay me $850,000 for working 20-30 times a year id let you say what you like and merely smile.
But that is your choice. Others who have more self-respect should be entitled to be able to go to work and not have to put up with abuse
Its also my choice, to boo who the hell i want at football games. Be it a cheating umpire flog, a drug cheats, grigg, chaplin, hampson, goodes
Again, no one is saying "black mongrel idiot", you are dangerously close to making stuff up. And if they do, they are punished by the authorities
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You cry so loudly your rights, but deny someone else his to feel offence. Okay for you to be offended if I call you a racist but not him to defend himself against people who attack him.
Hardly seems fair does it?
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You cry so loudly your rights, but deny someone else his to feel offence. Okay for you to be offended if I call you a racist but not him to defend himself against people who attack him.
Hardly seems fair does it?
again you are wrong
i could not care less if you call me racist
in fact, more power to you
im merely saying boo-ing is not racism and you are wrong. along with all the other dumass; Gill, Robbo, Daniel Andrews, Chris Scott
Goodes does not have a right to not be booed if he is a professional footballer. Tough tittes. same as jake king
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The whole thing is embarrassing.
The only winners are the journalists and self indulged columnists.
x 2.
I'm ashamed that my club and players have politicized my sport and bought into an issue that has been largely fuelled by the media sycophants, something that Adam Goodes could stop tomorrow if he wasn't stage-managing the whole thing deliberately for his own selfish and political agenda.
x4
AFL turning it into a race issue because no one wants to be a racist. Saying if you boo him you are a racist is a cop out. Goodes has been hardly undermined because he is black. Instead we have to walk on egg shells around him because we are white. Who is the racist? Schwarz unterdrücker ::)
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I hope we wear yellow sharps containers the week after in support of Jobe.
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Well, if you worked in a store and 50 people came in a each week and stood there and called you a black mongrel idiot and every name under the sun, you would expect your employer minimum would have them ejected. The employer might agree that you are a black mongrel idiot and every name under the sun, but he has a duty of care to you.
See it from the personal selfish point of view if you can't see it from an example of someone else's pain.
Actually, if you were to pay me $850,000 for working 20-30 times a year id let you say what you like and merely smile.
But that is your choice. Others who have more self-respect should be entitled to be able to go to work and not have to put up with abuse
chocolate should fall from the sky too but it does not
its a game of footy, played by professional athletes
your salesman analogy are rubbish
how many thousands of years have sports people and actors been booed / cheered
I hope we wear yellow sharps containers the week after in support of Jobe.
exactly
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You cry so loudly your rights, but deny someone else his to feel offence. Okay for you to be offended if I call you a racist but not him to defend himself against people who attack him.
Hardly seems fair does it?
again you are wrong
i could not care less if you call me racist
in fact, more power to you
im merely saying boo-ing is not racism and you are wrong. along with all the other dumass; Gill, Robbo, Daniel Andrews, Chris Scott
Goodes does not have a right to not be booed if he is a professional footballer. Tough tittes. same as jake king
No, you are right, people who boo are not necessarily racists, but there is an element of racism who get behind people in large groups who are.
Half the people wouldn't have a clue why they boo, they just follow the mob mentality
But there are those that are clued in and see that as an opportunity to take advantage of the situation.
But you have the same right to defend yourself that you're not a racist as much as Goodes has the right to defend his actions and not have to put up with being called a sook because he does. And clubs have to protect their players, it's their job, their duty, and whether people have been doing it for centuries with no harm doesn't mean that there would not be grounds for someone to come in and sue his employer for not providing adequate protection. So it's not just a personal thing, I would think it's a workplace issue as well. I would rather hope though that they are doing it to support Goodes than any other reason though
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You cry so loudly your rights, but deny someone else his to feel offence. Okay for you to be offended if I call you a racist but not him to defend himself against people who attack him.
Hardly seems fair does it?
again you are wrong
i could not care less if you call me racist
in fact, more power to you
im merely saying boo-ing is not racism and you are wrong. along with all the other dumass; Gill, Robbo, Daniel Andrews, Chris Scott
Goodes does not have a right to not be booed if he is a professional footballer. Tough tittes. same as jake king
No, you are right, people who boo are not necessarily racists, but there is an element of racism who get behind people in large groups who are.
Half the people wouldn't have a clue why they boo, they just follow the mob mentality
But there are those that are clued in and see that as an opportunity to take advantage of the situation.
But you have the same right to defend yourself that you're not a racist as much as Goodes has the right to defend his actions and not have to put up with being called a sook because he does. And clubs have to protect their players, it's their job, their duty, and whether people have been doing it for centuries with no harm doesn't mean that there would not be grounds for someone to come in and sue his employer for not providing adequate protection. So it's not just a personal thing, I would think it's a workplace issue as well. I would rather hope though that they are doing it to support Goodes than any other reason though
I don't mind being called racist. we have already established this. hence i will boo in peace, and you label me as you wish
Yes, the clubs can attempt to "protect" professional athletes from booing. but that would also make them morons IMHO
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Just used you as a bad example.
I meant someone with pride, someone who did care what others thought of themselves.
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Just used you as a bad example.
I meant someone with pride, someone who did care what others thought of themselves.
did your priest / mummy / teacher - forget to teach you, not to care what others think ?
be an individual
think for yourself
don't listen to the media for every answer.
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I can't speak for every person booing.. But I was under the impression it has absolutely nothing to do with race and more to do with the fact he's acted like an absolute tosser. All these acts of racial support are meaningless because he isn't being booed because he's indigenous. That's what I rdckon anyway
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Just used you as a bad example.
I meant someone with pride, someone who did care what others thought of themselves.
did your priest / mummy / teacher - forget to teach you, not to care what others think ?
be an individual
think for yourself
don't listen to the media for every answer.
I am actually the one going against popular opinion on here so you are deluding yourself
Booing used to be fun when it wasn't done at the expense of someone's feelings, but people these days just want to grind people into the ground. I don't care if they're a dog like Milne who are on the end of it, but someone like Goodes who is a decent person, who is just defending his personal pride and right to exist and be heard, if that's his only crime, I don't like that. And I would think over that issue I am in the minority. I can think for myself, don't you worry about that. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but they are just my opinions. You keep your own and I will respect your right to have yours as well.
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Ah you are boss of racist acts and the fun?
Is your post Sen approved?
I do respect you. And what you say. And what you think booing means on a deeper level.
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Ah you are boss of racsit acts and the fun?
Seems so. Enjoy your day at the Department of Stupidity.
Cheers
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Ah you are boss of racsit acts and the fun?
Seems so. Enjoy your day at the Department of Stupidity.
Cheers
Booing used to be fun but now its vetting out of hand!
Think of the children
Some of us never thought booing used to be fun. Simple pleasures eh
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Ah you are boss of racsit acts and the fun?
Seems so. Enjoy your day at the Department of Stupidity.
Cheers
Show some respect please. :shh
Mr. Jobe Watson has already cried once... WCE are like a wrecking ball.
(http://l.yimg.com/ea/img/-/130321/a_160213genderbyvox01_18kk6v7-18kk70b.jpg)
There are rumors, he is faking injury. Thinking of retiring...
Its all too much, this booing and drug cheating caper. Allegedly If the afl come out and say " jobe Watson vilification is banned." What would your position be? No one is allowed to boo jobe. Cause that's vilification. No one can boo Goode's cause that the same (or pretty bloody close). What it were ruled, no one allowed to Boo Hird?
This is a somewhat realistic hypothetical. Now that the Victorian premier and afl CEO shown their thought-police hand
...
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my man? gone to lunch? fair enough i guess we will have ti agree to disagree
perhaps we can conclude i am a person with little self worth, and very probable a racist. where as you my friend could well be a dumb-ass for the view you hold dearly: racism = booing ;)
last advice get a dictionary made of paper and look up some definitions . If he is playing against Richmond in the gf, now that's its proven it affect his game I will boo till the cows come home. Go tigers
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This has turned into a stuffing circus, sick of it! stuffing sook!
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Well l don't support the club in this decision to show support to a player from another club.l want my club to wear its proper playing jumper. l pay my memeberships to the club to go all out to win premiership for its supporters. Not to get involved with something that involves problems at other clubs or worry about how other clubs are going in the AFL. Our club is going down the wrong path if its not going to look after #1 The Richmond football club & its members. l have all the respect for Adam Goodes as a footballer but his onfield actions & sniper hitting & squealing is why the opposition supporters boo him. A champion of the game who in the last few years has dished it out & been protected by the AFL, The AFL match review panel & the umpires. This has nothing to do with him being Aboriginal or about Racism. This has now has sparked a racism slaging match between Aboriginals & White people. Just reading some of the comments the last few days on websites is amazing. Alot of supporters don't like Adam Goodes & booing has been around for 100 years. Its no different to Jack Dyer attacking Lou Richards cause they hated each others teams. Football is war amongst club supporters. The umpires have copped it for over 100 years. If l want to boo anyone at the football for whatever reason thats my own choice. Suck it up thats football Australian Rules.
So Richmond football club. l do not support your decision to to get involved in the Adam Goodes saga. It's not our problem.
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It's a national struggle session and everybody has been presumed guilty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuDx6_PLIVk
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I boo Hird, which makes me a racist against whites going by the lack of logic being pushed down the throats of the Australian public.
That's a bit ridiculous.
Suppose we had better wear Essendon jumpers next week to make poor Jimmy feel a little bit better.
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This has been blown way out of proportion, why? bc commentators on this issue have made sweeping broad generalisations such as "if you boo Goodes, you are racist" that has backfired bc finally, the silent majority have said you know what? stuff you, I dont have anything against his colour, its his actions I am booing and the fact you are labelling me racist for it and telling me what I am apparently feeling is just not acceptable. I notice that they are backing down and today the mssg/argument starting to come through is its actually bullying haha If they werent so quick to throw the big bad racism card this wouldnt be the beast it has now become. Now its a matter of stubborn pride imo, most people will not back down bc the PC brigade will then no doubt pupport it as a victory against racism.
The fact all the players, coaches, administrators even politicians are playing the race card and its having no effect whatsoever shows that the greater majority are sick to death of this BS. Good luck, where this ends who knows..
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what a stuffing circus.
here's an interesting take from someone at the west coke game on the weekend.
but to put it into perspective, he got rather uptight when I said gooddes was a grub ( or similar) and went to bat for him good bloke blah blah blah.
A west coast player retaliated to something goodes did ( he didnt see what as it was on the other side of the ground, but the coker was rather peed with whatever goodes did). the crowd on that side of the ground started to boo him whenever he went near the ball. this spread so soon the whole crowd was giving it to him.
so clearly, the best coke player in question is a white supremacist nazi.
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Most of you who remain unapologetic about your stance against Goodes and that it holds no relationship to racism in any form whatsoever would feel some kind of compassion/empathy/whatever you want to call it with someone defending to his last breath his entitlement to stand up for himself with actions/gestures that he thinks appropriate to convey his own message of hurt, anguish, pain in how he, himself, has been treated. You can kind of see how both views should be respected IMO and is quite ironic if you look at it.
He's playing the hurt card now because it's the last stance of the scoundrel.
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so clearly, the best coke player in question is a white supremacist nazi.
Should recruit him then...he'd have a handy goose step....
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If we can't say boo, what about boo-urns?
http://youtu.be/Vb_eeVIpDw8
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I don't care if it's racism or not - this is extreme bullying and it needs to stop.
I see some of the stuff that is being posted on OER and Facebook and I just shake my head.
I remember going to the cricket back in 1988 ( I was 15 at the time ) . It was the WACA test where Geoff Lawson got his jaw broken and Merv got his unusual hat trick.
The abuse that the West Indian players recieved that day was disgusting . Monkey and gorilla noises all day - Bananas being thrown onto the field - all in the name of fun
This is the society that Adam Goodes has had to grow up in , but people call him a sook and tell him he needs to get over it. I suspect growing up aboriginal in Victoria was not a pleasant experience at times.
I just see a man - standing up for his principles . He has been a champion footballer.
He has never been linked to any drug scandals
He has no ties with any bikie or underworld figures
He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
He has never been charged with violence against women.
I am very proud of the Richmond football club for making a stand . Our players obviously respect Goodes and think he is a man of good character. I think they are in a better position to judge than us keyboard warriors / snipers.
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The villain has been booed throughout history.
It just so happen that the villain is a sook, in his instance.
He's responsible for his actions over the years that have seen him cast himself as such.
It's theatre.
LMAO.
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He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....
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and white
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Majak Daw says hello....
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The villain has been booed throughout history.
It just so happen that the villain is a sook, in his instance.
He's responsible for his actions over the years that have seen him cast himself as such.
It's theatre.
LMAO.
You lose all credibility when you posted the Goodes / Hunt picture in another thread.
We all know that there was nothing in that incident , but you use it to highlight your agenda.
I call you a muckraker .
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so clearly, the best coke player in question is a white supremacist nazi.
Should recruit him then...he'd have a handy goose step....
And if putsch came to shove would have a great stiff arm.
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The villain has been booed throughout history.
It just so happen that the villain is a sook, in his instance.
He's responsible for his actions over the years that have seen him cast himself as such.
It's theatre.
LMAO.
You lose all credibility when you posted the Goodes / Hunt picture in another thread.
We all know that there was nothing in that incident , but you use it to highlight your agenda.
I call you a muckraker .
I call you a sheep, lost in the woods of political correctness, so deep into the foliage that you can no longer see the trees nor the humor in their agenda.
You also speak on behalf of those who support booing him for the right reasons when you
attempt to suppress such behaviour.
As judgemental as the next guy.
Lol
The irony.
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Apologies for calling you a muckraker . I meant to say mudslinger.
So why did you post the Goodes / Hunt pic ?
What was your intention for doing this ?
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Why wouldn't I use it?
It's no more an underhanded tactic that that sneaky bastard is pulling.
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He should be traded to Essendon
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I don't care if it's racism or not - this is extreme bullying and it needs to stop.
I see some of the stuff that is being posted on OER and Facebook and I just shake my head.
I remember going to the cricket back in 1988 ( I was 15 at the time ) . It was the WACA test where Geoff Lawson got his jaw broken and Merv got his unusual hat trick.
The abuse that the West Indian players recieved that day was disgusting . Monkey and gorilla noises all day - Bananas being thrown onto the field - all in the name of fun
This is the society that Adam Goodes has had to grow up in , but people call him a sook and tell him he needs to get over it. I suspect growing up aboriginal in Victoria was not a pleasant experience at times.
I just see a man - standing up for his principles . He has been a champion footballer.
He has never been linked to any drug scandals
He has no ties with any bikie or underworld figures
He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
He has never been charged with violence against women.
I am very proud of the Richmond football club for making a stand . Our players obviously respect Goodes and think he is a man of good character. I think they are in a better position to judge than us keyboard warriors / snipers.
Booing for racist purposes is simply not acceptable behaviour. If people are booing because he is advocating for indigenous people then clearly that is racist behaviour. However the motives of the people who are booing are not clear. If he is being booed because he staged for a free kick then clearly that is not racist behaviour. One has to be very careful in making broad statements that the booing is being made by people who are racist without supporting evidence. It goes against the fundamental principle of our society of the presumption of innocence. To classify all people who are booing as racist is defamatory behaviour. It is clear he is very sensitive on the issue of booing and as a result people need to be careful in their actions.
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In my book, from now on if you boo Goodes, you're a racist.
And serious question
What about those who don't boo but don't like the bloke for reasons that have nothing to do with his race? Are they racists too?
Or those who don't agree with his divisive comments on indigenous issues, but again they don't boo him? Are they racists?
Or is it just the booers?
Because going by the media commentary over the last 72 hours in particular anyone who has a negative opinion of the bloke is a racist.
People who booed (past tense) Adam Goodes arn't necessarily racists and people should be aloud to boo whomever they like. However, given the muddied circumstances in the current, if you didn't like Adam Goodes but KNEW you were associating with racists; to continue booing is to be an accessory to the fact.
Adam Goodes hasn't made any divisive comments on indigenous issues; he's spoken of facts and of uncomfortable truths. These are NOT divisive insofar as they are not related to divided opinions. FACTS of horrible historical mistreatment and of genocide of Aboriginals are largely accepted as truths. What is divisive are peoples interpretations and understandings. I think people are largely ill-informed and ignorant of a lot of the detail of treatment of indigenous Australians. Adam Goodes speaks about how this needs to change and we need to be more accepting of this part of history - which he has every right to do. Id go so far as to say if you call these actions 'divisive' then you're being revisionist along racial lines.
So yes, given now that we have a groundswell of Australians asserting that whilst disliking and booing a footballer is and should be acceptable, when your boos are masking an undertone of racial proportions it now makes your boos racist by association and I think this is a fair summation.
After all, its not up to the individual (white, middleclass, privileged) to determine if their own actions and words are racist - its up to society as a whole. A cultural cringe of this magnitude suggests unequivocally that YES these actions are deemed to be racist. If you boo Adam Goodes now, you're a racist.
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I don't care if it's racism or not - this is extreme bullying and it needs to stop.
I see some of the stuff that is being posted on OER and Facebook and I just shake my head.
I remember going to the cricket back in 1988 ( I was 15 at the time ) . It was the WACA test where Geoff Lawson got his jaw broken and Merv got his unusual hat trick.
The abuse that the West Indian players recieved that day was disgusting . Monkey and gorilla noises all day - Bananas being thrown onto the field - all in the name of fun
This is the society that Adam Goodes has had to grow up in , but people call him a sook and tell him he needs to get over it. I suspect growing up aboriginal in Victoria was not a pleasant experience at times.
I just see a man - standing up for his principles . He has been a champion footballer.
He has never been linked to any drug scandals
He has no ties with any bikie or underworld figures
He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
He has never been charged with violence against women.
I am very proud of the Richmond football club for making a stand . Our players obviously respect Goodes and think he is a man of good character. I think they are in a better position to judge than us keyboard warriors / snipers.
if wankers like Gil, Andrew Ireland and various social commentators weren't so quick to ply the race card, it wouldn't be what it is now. If likeminded muppets actually tempered their ridiculous "you are 100% racist" views, we wouldn't be where we are. People are very angry at being labelled and finally the majority have dug their heels in and said stuff you! Until the other side concede that its not all racist this will not go away
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In my book, from now on if you boo Goodes, you're a racist.
And serious question
What about those who don't boo but don't like the bloke for reasons that have nothing to do with his race? Are they racists too?
Or those who don't agree with his divisive comments on indigenous issues, but again they don't boo him? Are they racists?
Or is it just the booers?
Because going by the media commentary over the last 72 hours in particular anyone who has a negative opinion of the bloke is a racist.
People who booed (past tense) Adam Goodes arn't necessarily racists and people should be aloud to boo whomever they like. However, given the muddied circumstances in the current, if you didn't like Adam Goodes but KNEW you were associating with racists; to continue booing is to be an accessory to the fact.
Adam Goodes hasn't made any divisive comments on indigenous issues; he's spoken of facts and of uncomfortable truths. These are NOT divisive insofar as they are not related to divided opinions. FACTS of horrible historical mistreatment and of genocide of Aboriginals are largely accepted as truths. What is divisive are peoples interpretations and understandings. I think people are largely ill-informed and ignorant of a lot of the detail of treatment of indigenous Australians. Adam Goodes speaks about how this needs to change and we need to be more accepting of this part of history - which he has every right to do. Id go so far as to say if you call these actions 'divisive' then you're being revisionist along racial lines.
So yes, given now that we have a groundswell of Australians asserting that whilst disliking and booing a footballer is and should be acceptable, when your boos are masking an undertone of racial proportions it now makes your boos racist by association and I think this is a fair summation.
After all, its not up to the individual (white, middleclass, privileged) to determine if their own actions and words are racist - its up to society as a whole. A cultural cringe of this magnitude suggests unequivocally that YES these actions are deemed to be racist. If you boo Adam Goodes now, you're a racist.
so what happens now if goodes snipes or belts an opposition player?
are the supporters allowed to jeer him for his actions?
-------------
tony has nailed it
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I just see a man - standing up for his principles . He has been a champion footballer.
He has never been linked to any drug scandals
He has no ties with any bikie or underworld figures
He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
He has never been charged with violence against women.
:thumbsup
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In my book, from now on if you boo Goodes, you're a racist.
And serious question
What about those who don't boo but don't like the bloke for reasons that have nothing to do with his race? Are they racists too?
Or those who don't agree with his divisive comments on indigenous issues, but again they don't boo him? Are they racists?
Or is it just the booers?
Because going by the media commentary over the last 72 hours in particular anyone who has a negative opinion of the bloke is a racist.
People who booed (past tense) Adam Goodes arn't necessarily racists and people should be aloud to boo whomever they like. However, given the muddied circumstances in the current, if you didn't like Adam Goodes but KNEW you were associating with racists; to continue booing is to be an accessory to the fact.
Adam Goodes hasn't made any divisive comments on indigenous issues; he's spoken of facts and of uncomfortable truths. These are NOT divisive insofar as they are not related to divided opinions. FACTS of horrible historical mistreatment and of genocide of Aboriginals are largely accepted as truths. What is divisive are peoples interpretations and understandings. I think people are largely ill-informed and ignorant of a lot of the detail of treatment of indigenous Australians. Adam Goodes speaks about how this needs to change and we need to be more accepting of this part of history - which he has every right to do. Id go so far as to say if you call these actions 'divisive' then you're being revisionist along racial lines.
So yes, given now that we have a groundswell of Australians asserting that whilst disliking and booing a footballer is and should be acceptable, when your boos are masking an undertone of racial proportions it now makes your boos racist by association and I think this is a fair summation.
After all, its not up to the individual (white, middleclass, privileged) to determine if their own actions and words are racist - its up to society as a whole. A cultural cringe of this magnitude suggests unequivocally that YES these actions are deemed to be racist. If you boo Adam Goodes now, you're a racist.
Accessory to the fact. ;D
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I boo him because he's half British
Same as the cricket
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I don't care if it's racism or not - this is extreme bullying and it needs to stop.
::)
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Extreme bullying - LMFAO.....
Booing at a sporting game, which isn't racist, is 'extreme bullying'?
Geez Geez. The collective human species does not have hope in hell of getting along and not destroying itself.
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Wonder if Jake Batchelor's on board with this tribute to the man who tried to knock his head off in the dying seconds of round 23 last year?
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stuffn pommy bastard!
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Maybe we're trying to make amends for having the worst record of draffting & developing indigineous talent this century.
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We alone set indigenous development back 30 years
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Read an article some years ago about the different reactions to black athletes.
Can't find the article now but it was about how there is a kind of unspoken deal.
One type of black athlete is compliant and does not mention the racism, past and present, that he suffers. He is lauded for his success and ability. Think Joe Louis.
The other is a challenger and points out racism, past and present, and is hated and vilified for his ingratitude at the success "we have granted him". Think Ali.
IMO this is what is happening with Goodes.
He's ungrateful for the success we "allow" him by pointing out our racism failures.
We must tear him down to provide an example to all those other "uppity niggers" who forget their place.
Comparison to any other black footballers is both irrelevant and the point.
We don't boo the other 70 indigenous footballers precisely because he is exceptional in publicly challenging racism.
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i dont really like Adam Goodes.
until today i had no idea of what he has said on the subject on racism.
I read his Australian of the year acceptance speech and TBH i cant see a single problem with it. he came across as humble, sincere and conciliatory.
Doesn't really change my view on him though, as that side of things had nothing to do with my view of him.
sorry to not conform to your generalising.
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We alone set indigenous development back 30 years
This controversy is easily resolved with some thoughtful planning on behalf of the AFL ....
The AFL should require each club to publish the full genealogy of each player on their list, so that fans can determine who is boo-able and who is not. The AFL should then publish the selected team's full genealogy each week, maybe on the scoreboard before the teams run out and certainly at the major breaks in the game. Just to be safe, at every interchange, the interchange steward should hold up a card to advise the crowd of whether it is allowable to boo the player who interchanges and perhaps hold up a second card to advise the crowd whether it is permissible to heckle the player who has just returned to the bench.
This then leads to a second issue, which is that some players may consider cheering to be sarcastically motivated and thus synonymous to bullying. An answer may be to swap out the GPS device in the back of each player's guernsey with a mobile phone, which would still provide GPS functionality (provided the player subscribed to the appropriate mobile plan - probably not Vodafone though) whilst allowing players to post their current reactions to the crowd on Twitter, so that fans would know if they've gone too far with their cheering ....
All easily sorted out .....
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Read an article some years ago about the different reactions to black athletes.
Can't find the article now but it was about how there is a kind of unspoken deal.
One type of black athlete is compliant and does not mention the racism, past and present, that he suffers. He is lauded for his success and ability. Think Joe Louis.
The other is a challenger and points out racism, past and present, and is hated and vilified for his ingratitude at the success "we have granted him". Think Ali.
IMO this is what is happening with Goodes.
He's ungrateful for the success we "allow" him by pointing out our racism failures.
We must tear him down to provide an example to all those other "uppity mans" who forget their place.
Comparison to any other black footballers is both irrelevant and the point.
We don't boo the other 70 indigenous footballers precisely because he is exceptional in publicly challenging racism.
Pretty deep that, sigmund
Nice one
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Extreme bullying - LMFAO.....
Booing at a sporting game, which isn't racist, is 'extreme bullying'?
Geez Geez. The collective human species does not have hope in hell of getting along and not destroying itself.
x 2
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So if I boo the 50% of Goodes that's white is that ok then?
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well, that is the part responsible for the grubby things on the field....
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Great post Redan.
The racists started to move in the moment Goodes complained about being called an ape, aided and abetted by the usual outraged journos. Goodes, complaining about being called an ape was apparently playing the race card.
The lack of action from the AFL over Eddie's King Kong 'joke'-he should have been suspended under the racial vilification code-was appalling.
Then Goodes' comments about Invasion Day were not only taken out of context but the meaning of them was completely ignored.
We were not listening then, and we are still not listening now.
I have to admit I am surprised that it is a minority on this forum who see this for what it is-racism.
It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.
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So if I boo the 50% of Goodes that's white is that ok then?
How do you know it is 50%, and what relevance does it have?
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He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....
Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!
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i find the view that you could only dislike goodes based on race sickening, nearly as sickening as the views of the racist i found myself in company with the other night.
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Read an article some years ago about the different reactions to black athletes.
Can't find the article now but it was about how there is a kind of unspoken deal.
One type of black athlete is compliant and does not mention the racism, past and present, that he suffers. He is lauded for his success and ability. Think Joe Louis.
The other is a challenger and points out racism, past and present, and is hated and vilified for his ingratitude at the success "we have granted him". Think Ali.
IMO this is what is happening with Goodes.
He's ungrateful for the success we "allow" him by pointing out our racism failures.
We must tear him down to provide an example to all those other "uppity mans" who forget their place.
Comparison to any other black footballers is both irrelevant and the point.
We don't boo the other 70 indigenous footballers precisely because he is exceptional in publicly challenging racism.
Waleed Aly said something similar. He makes us uncomfortable by challenging us and as such is hated.
I for one am proud Richmond are pulling on the dr www amtime jumpers for this round. Its one of the few times clubs get it morally right.
So often if a guy can kick he gets to act like a lad with impunityand the clubs help em.
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Brayshaw and Lyon
TTrying to explain to Sam how running at a crowd with a fake spear is not goading
Running out of political correct words
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You know, if the afl, media and pc bandwagon Do-Gooders just wish hard enough, and I mean REALLY WISH REALLY REALLY HARD in their own minds, maybe they'll convince themselves that they can create a reality that it's all about race....just by wishing.
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Great post Redan.
The racists started to move in the moment Goodes complained about being called an ape, aided and abetted by the usual outraged journos. Goodes, complaining about being called an ape was apparently playing the race card.
The lack of action from the AFL over Eddie's King Kong 'joke'-he should have been suspended under the racial vilification code-was appalling.
Then Goodes' comments about Invasion Day were not only taken out of context but the meaning of them was completely ignored.
We were not listening then, and we are still not listening now.
I have to admit I am surprised that it is a minority on this forum who see this for what it is-racism.
It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.
A lot of the people on this forum are 40+year olds who grew up in the 70s and 80s like myself when racism was pretty rife and as such their value set reflects that era. Their values wont change as they age, tactics might but when push comes to shove their values wont. Goodes challenges those values more than Winmar did or Michael Long because Goodes expects more. His values are from the late 80s and 90s when things began to change. Its as much a generational thing as a personal thing I think
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Great post Redan.
The racists started to move in the moment Goodes complained about being called an ape, aided and abetted by the usual outraged journos. Goodes, complaining about being called an ape was apparently playing the race card.
The lack of action from the AFL over Eddie's King Kong 'joke'-he should have been suspended under the racial vilification code-was appalling.
Then Goodes' comments about Invasion Day were not only taken out of context but the meaning of them was completely ignored.
We were not listening then, and we are still not listening now.
I have to admit I am surprised that it is a minority on this forum who see this for what it is-racism.
It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.
A lot of the people on this forum are 40+year olds who grew up in the 70s and 80s like myself when racism was pretty rife and as such their value set reflects that era. Their values wont change as they age, tactics might but when push comes to shove their values wont. Goodes challenges those values more than Winmar did or Michael Long because Goodes expects more. His values are from the late 80s and 90s when things began to change. Its as much a generational thing as a personal thing I think
Another excellent point. It was during their lifetime that Aboriginals went from being technically "fauna" to actual human beings. Yep, that happened 1 stuffing generation ago.
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You know, if the afl, media and pc bandwagon Do-Gooders just wish hard enough, and I mean REALLY WISH REALLY REALLY HARD in their own minds, maybe they'll convince themselves that they can create a reality that it's all about race....just by wishing.
Its a tactic
Divide and conquer
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seems to be a lot of prejudice based on generalisation and stereotyping going on, which ironically enough, is what racism basically is.
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Another excellent point. It was during their lifetime that Aboriginals went from being technically "fauna" to actual human beings. Yep, that happened 1 stuffing generation ago.
yep. 90% of the people voted yes to this, including the parents that raised the whole generation you are now tarring with the one vile brush.
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So if I boo the 50% of Goodes that's white is that ok then?
How do you know it is 50%, and what relevance does it have?
White European father, indigenous mother - Genetic Maths 101. No more relevance than everyone classifying me as a racist if I choose to boo him for his actions, not his heritage.
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seems to be a lot of prejudice based on generalisation and stereotyping going on, which ironically enough, is what racism basically is.
Hmm, I could go on and on about why that's not correct but, alas ,I haven't the time nor patience. Racism is a far more complex notion than simply stereotyping and generalisation. If I see a man who would present as being of sub-continental background, and I'm a lifeguard and we're at a pool, I might stereotype him as being likely to drown, because in all likely-hood, he probably can't swim.
If I call someone an 'ape', that would assume that I myself am asserting that I am different and higher up the social order than the object of my assertion.
Fun fact, Race has no biological basis, which is to say it doesn't exist from an evolutionary or scientific standpoint. It was derived/developed in order to justify taking away land and territory from indigenous peoples under the guise that "we deserve this, we're higher up the social scale than these savages".
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Read an article some years ago about the different reactions to black athletes.
Can't find the article now but it was about how there is a kind of unspoken deal.
One type of black athlete is compliant and does not mention the racism, past and present, that he suffers. He is lauded for his success and ability. Think Joe Louis.
The other is a challenger and points out racism, past and present, and is hated and vilified for his ingratitude at the success "we have granted him". Think Ali.
IMO this is what is happening with Goodes.
He's ungrateful for the success we "allow" him by pointing out our racism failures.
We must tear him down to provide an example to all those other "uppity mans" who forget their place.
Comparison to any other black footballers is both irrelevant and the point.
We don't boo the other 70 indigenous footballers precisely because he is exceptional in publicly challenging racism.
Anthony Mundine anyone?
I'm not against the provocation - I actually quite like it. Making the White Man uncomfortable is okay with me.
I couldn't care less about the politicising.
I reckon that 13 girl was treated terribly but Adam Goodes didn't arrest her.
The knee sliding and the staging for free kicks poos me. It's only a recent thing. He was a jugganaut of the game until 3-4 years ago and he lost his pace so his playing style changed.
I'm not a booer but his recent playing style constitutes the odd boo. Like many before and after him.
What did he really think would happen with the war dance?
What did we all think?
Plugger kicked a ball into the crowd in Sydney many years ago. What happened? Booed.
Damien Monkhurst, the Victoria Park crowd and Spider Everitt were racist in the 90's. The 2 players were rightfully suspended (and booed by the crowd when they returned).
Openly racist people in the crowd began to get challenged by other people.
It was good.
The AFL got that one right.
I have been a victim of colour based racism. Absolutely disgusting garbage.
No doubt I was bullied because of race.
What has happened to Adam Goodes is harsh - that is true - but it isn't bullying nor is it racist and white folk who think it is are being manipulated.
It's just a once great player who has struggled to come to grips with slowly losing his amazing gift for playing AFL football. People are calling him on that.
The politicising stuff and war dance aren't going to help but honestly what do people expect?
Mundine is smarter than he looks, he knows it will provoke a reaction.
Booing is a consequence of people who are listening (but disagreeing).
And so now the booing has got out of hand.
Perth has a solid reputation for that, ask Jobe Watson (who is white).
Having said all of that, it's time to close the book on this topic (for me anyway).
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He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....
Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!
Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
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It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.
Or a large majority of fair-minded human beings who also think the same thing - Goodes treatment of that girl was over the top. 13 years old and she most definitely was not the face of racism in this country. She was a young, immature child who needed an adult to work with her in educating and pointing out how the term is derogatory and unacceptable, not an adult to carry on like a spoiled brat. Shame his reaction to Eddie MacGuire's much more unacceptable comment a week later was much more reserved and less histrionic. Bully?
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A lot of the people on this forum are 40+year olds who grew up in the 70s and 80s like myself when racism was pretty rife and as such their value set reflects that era. Their values wont change as they age, tactics might but when push comes to shove their values wont. Goodes challenges those values more than Winmar did or Michael Long because Goodes expects more. His values are from the late 80s and 90s when things began to change. Its as much a generational thing as a personal thing I think
I think you're full of poo you pompous arrogant twit. How dare you presume what I think? I've worked with indigenous people most of my life, still do. I rent my home from an indigenous lady. I'm involved with a football club that has a large percentage of indigenous players and don't deal with any of them any differently to anyone else. Talk to some indigenous people, ask them what they think. You would be surprised how many of them have no time for Goodes either, for the same reason, and for them it's most certainly not about race.
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It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.
Or a large majority of fair-minded human beings who also think the same thing - Goodes treatment of that girl was over the top. 13 years old and she most definitely was not the face of racism in this country. She was a young, immature child who needed an adult to work with her in educating and pointing out how the term is derogatory and unacceptable, not an adult to carry on like a spoiled brat. Shame his reaction to Eddie MacGuire's much more unacceptable comment a week later was much more reserved and less histrionic. Bully?
I think this whole saga of blaming Adam Goodes for being racially abused is absolutely at the heart of the broader issue. HE was racially vilified. He didn't know anything about her, who she was or what her background was. All he knew was that he was called a an Ape during indigenous round. So he pointed it out.
I'll agree that the public shaming didn't match the crime and that she was probably scape-goated beyond what she needed, which as you asserted, was counselling and direction, but to blame him for that is horrendous. Blame the black man for being black and getting called an ape????
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Waleed Aly said something similar.
:lol :lol :lol The face of all that is good, just and right in this world. Hypocritical, lying worm of a human. All terrorists are good, it's just that some are better than others.
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It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.
Or a large majority of fair-minded human beings who also think the same thing - Goodes treatment of that girl was over the top. 13 years old and she most definitely was not the face of racism in this country. She was a young, immature child who needed an adult to work with her in educating and pointing out how the term is derogatory and unacceptable, not an adult to carry on like a spoiled brat. Shame his reaction to Eddie MacGuire's much more unacceptable comment a week later was much more reserved and less histrionic. Bully?
It was not Adam Goodes' fault that his attacker was 13 years old, she was not the face of Australian racism, she was however a symptom and a victim of it.
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I think this whole saga of blaming Adam Goodes for being racially abused is absolutely at the heart of the broader issue. HE was racially vilified. He didn't know anything about her, who she was or what her background was. All he knew was that he was called a an Ape during indigenous round. So he pointed it out.
I'll agree that the public shaming didn't match the crime and that she was probably scape-goated beyond what she needed, which as you asserted, was counselling and direction, but to blame him for that is horrendous. Blame the black man for being black and getting called an ape????
No he didn't and there was nothing wrong with his initial reaction but a reasonable, fair-minded leader of men might then have reflected on things post-event and taken steps to turn the event into a true educational opportunity, not just for her but for those in our community who still don't get it. Unfortunately he chose the other path, to play the victim and subsequently gain no traction for his cause. And that's where an apology now (not to say sorry for what she said but sorry for how his reaction was handled wrongly) could go so far to diffuse the current rubbish and achieve what he states is his real aim. But sadly, it doesn't appear to be within his makeup or agenda so then I for one question his real intent.
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It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.
Or a large majority of fair-minded human beings who also think the same thing - Goodes treatment of that girl was over the top. 13 years old and she most definitely was not the face of racism in this country. She was a young, immature child who needed an adult to work with her in educating and pointing out how the term is derogatory and unacceptable, not an adult to carry on like a spoiled brat. Shame his reaction to Eddie MacGuire's much more unacceptable comment a week later was much more reserved and less histrionic. Bully?
I think this whole saga of blaming Adam Goodes for being racially abused is absolutely at the heart of the broader issue. HE was racially vilified. He didn't know anything about her, who she was or what her background was. All he knew was that he was called a an Ape during indigenous round. So he pointed it out.
I'll agree that the public shaming didn't match the crime and that she was probably scape-goated beyond what she needed, which as you asserted, was counselling and direction, but to blame him for that is horrendous. Blame the black man for being black and getting called an ape????
what a load of horse droppings.
more like blame the man who made a big deal out of a childs mistake, but then kept ever so silent when that child rang him and wrote to him to express her regret in what she said and that she now understands the hurt it caused,
now, you tell me which part of the story is the one most worthy of bringing public attention to, her mistake or how she responded to it?
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He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....
Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!
Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
As much as I try, I can't for the life of me inspire myself to get outraged by right wing lightweights these days.
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It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.
Or a large majority of fair-minded human beings who also think the same thing - Goodes treatment of that girl was over the top. 13 years old and she most definitely was not the face of racism in this country. She was a young, immature child who needed an adult to work with her in educating and pointing out how the term is derogatory and unacceptable, not an adult to carry on like a spoiled brat. Shame his reaction to Eddie MacGuire's much more unacceptable comment a week later was much more reserved and less histrionic. Bully?
It was not Adam Goodes' fault that his attacker was 13 years old, she was not the face of Australian racism, she was however a symptom and a victim of it.
Only if you accept that her intent with the word "ape" was directed at him racially, and not at his actual appearance as a large overpowering man with a beard. I know that to many 13 year olds, they would only see it the second way, entirely innocently and his refusal to accept the possibility it could have been a very innocent mistake says more about him than her in my eyes. That's where I think his vaunted leadership in the community is sadly lacking. He could have accepted the possibility of an error in judgment and then used the opportunity to state his thoughts on it the use of the word itself and broader racism in general - that would have been true leadership and had people from all walks onside, listening to his word.
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seems to be a lot of prejudice based on generalisation and stereotyping going on, which ironically enough, is what racism basically is.
Hmm, I could go on and on about why that's not correct but, alas ,I haven't the time nor patience. Racism is a far more complex notion than simply stereotyping and generalisation. If I see a man who would present as being of sub-continental background, and I'm a lifeguard and we're at a pool, I might stereotype him as being likely to drown, because in all likely-hood, he probably can't swim.
If I call someone an 'ape', that would assume that I myself am asserting that I am different and higher up the social order than the object of my assertion.
Fun fact, Race has no biological basis, which is to say it doesn't exist from an evolutionary or scientific standpoint. It was derived/developed in order to justify taking away land and territory from indigenous peoples under the guise that "we deserve this, we're higher up the social scale than these savages".
of course it is more complex, but i specifically used the word basically, because like you i couldn't be bothered exploring the vast complexities of it.
but if you want to go deeper and even more simplistic, racism is a form of xenophobia, something we all have in us, whether the pretentious amongst us want to admit it or not.
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He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....
Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!
Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
As much as I try, I can't for the life of me inspire myself to get outraged by right wing lightweights these days.
Yes it was fairly rudimentary, cliched stuff but I'm not about waste my good material on the likes of you, let alone a football fan forum.
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Smoke calling for Goodes to apologise to someone who called him an ape is an outrageous demand. If by some way Goodes is obliged to extend an olive branch then I am sure that he has done more than his fair share of that by offering to talk to the girl about how and why it was wrong and the effect that it has on people? What more can he do? He is not the kids parents, who are obviously racist bogans who have taught their kids the aussie way.
Adam Goodes must have been shocked when he realised it came from the mouth of a 13yo girl. To think that racism is so engrained against his people that people who are essentially being trained to be another generation of abo haters.
This would be a nasty self revelation to have if indeed he had it. To think that the next generation are already against me because of my skin. That's what I would have been thinking, if I try to put myself in his place.
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actually the girl contacted him. yet he ignored a real opportunity to create a great positive out of something that just left a bitter taste in everyone's mouth.
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He is not the kids parents, who are obviously racist bogans who have taught their kids the aussie way.
...and you definitely know this how? Seems to be an awful lot of people blessed with the gift of e.s.p on your side of the debate. What's this "Aussie way" you speak of? Does it involve traits that are unique to Australians?
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...and you definitely know this how? Seems to be an awful lot of people blessed with the gift of e.s.p on your side of the debate. What's this "Aussie way" you speak of? Does it involve traits that are unique to Australians?
Yes it does. Eg: only Australians are intimidated by a war dance from their indigenous people. Kiwis embrace and perform theirs.
As for the bogan mother who came out and sooked that her daughter had to apologise to Goodes. She has clearly not learned a thing from it. And what parent with any standards would allow their 13yo one to be dragged out of the MCG by blue coats and 2 to be questioned alone by police, they should be ashamed of themselves and fade quietly into the background.
I love your new found love for bogans too Dio, shows people can change.
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He is not the kids parents, who are obviously racist bogans who have taught their kids the aussie way.
...and you definitely know this how? Seems to be an awful lot of people blessed with the gift of e.s.p on your side of the debate. What's this "Aussie way" you speak of? Does it involve traits that are unique to Australians?
Its incredible how they seem to be able to read everyone's minds.
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...and you definitely know this how? Seems to be an awful lot of people blessed with the gift of e.s.p on your side of the debate. What's this "Aussie way" you speak of? Does it involve traits that are unique to Australians?
Yes it does. Eg: only Australians are intimidated by a war dance from their indigenous people. Kiwis embrace and perform theirs.
As for the bogan mother who came out and sooked that her daughter had to apologise to Goodes. She has clearly not learned a thing from it. And what parent with any standards would allow their 13yo one to be dragged out of the MCG by blue coats and 2 to be questioned alone by police, they should be ashamed of themselves and fade quietly into the background.
I love your new found love for bogans too Dio, shows people can change.
Oi, enough of that.
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And what parent with any standards would allow their 13yo one to be dragged out of the MCG by blue coats and 2 to be questioned alone by police, they should be ashamed of themselves and fade quietly into the background.
:lol
judgemental not
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And what parent with any standards would allow their 13yo one to be dragged out of the MCG by blue coats and 2 to be questioned alone by police, they should be ashamed of themselves and fade quietly into the background.
:lol
judgemental not
Yes I am, what sort of standards does a person have that they would teach their child such utter filth.
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He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....
Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!
Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
As much as I try, I can't for the life of me inspire myself to get outraged by right wing lightweights these days.
Yes it was fairly rudimentary, cliched stuff but I'm not about waste my good material on the likes of you, let alone a football fan forum.
Saving the gold for storm front?
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.
And what parent with any standards would allow their 13yo one to be dragged out of the MCG by blue coats and 2 to be questioned alone by police, they should be ashamed of themselves and fade quietly into the background.
:lol
judgemental not
Yes I am, what sort of standards does a person have that they would teach their child such utter filth.
How do you know they taught her? She never went to school or mixed with other kids? Were they also calling Goodes an ape? Why didn't our hero point them out too?
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He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....
Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!
Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
As much as I try, I can't for the life of me inspire myself to get outraged by right wing lightweights these days.
Yes it was fairly rudimentary, cliched stuff but I'm not about waste my good material on the likes of you, let alone a football fan forum.
Saving the gold for storm front?
Yeah sure why not......Heil, Heil, Ziggity Heil!
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.And what parent with any standards would allow their 13yo one to be dragged out of the MCG by blue coats and 2 to be questioned alone by police, they should be ashamed of themselves and fade quietly into the background.
:lol
judgemental not
Yes I am, what sort of standards does a person have that they would teach their child such utter filth.
How do you know they taught her? She never went to school or mixed with other kids? Were they also calling Goodes an ape? Why didn't our hero point them out too?
Not impossible that she has picked up some of the racism from school, but if true would make Goodes' stance even more important.
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Yes it does. Eg: only Australians are intimidated by a war dance from their indigenous people. Kiwis embrace and perform theirs.
Goodes kicked a goal towards his own cheersquad but decided to do it towards opposition supporters whereas the Kiwis do their Haka towards their opponents and actually have some historical significance, not just a made up dance like Goodes was (yes it was only made it up recently no need to try and bring out the racist card). Also, just so you can't paint me under the same brush as everyone else, I am not one of the 40+ year olds that have racism engrained in me like you like to believe.
Don't worry you aren't the only one to show ignorance in this, me included. I'm not stupid enough to believe I know the motives behind everyones booing or how Goodes takes it but I'm definitely not stupid enough to tell people if they boo someone from now on they're racist.
I was actually with a friend today who happens to be Indigenous and we were amongst a group of people talking about this debate. One person in the group was telling everyone how racist the booing was and it was quite funny to hear my friend tell the people that although he hadn't booed Goodes himself, he didn't like him or care about other people booing him. That same person turned around and told him "but he's one of you", like he was meant to support anything Goodes does.
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He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....
Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!
Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
As much as I try, I can't for the life of me inspire myself to get outraged by right wing lightweights these days.
I'm left of centre and don't fall into the age profile stated on this thread. Don't generalise and lump people into a category. It only makes your argument look even less measured and I'll informed than it probably should be.
-
He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....
Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!
Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
As much as I try, I can't for the life of me inspire myself to get outraged by right wing lightweights these days.
I'm left of centre and don't fall into the age profile stated on this thread. Don't generalise and lump people into a category. It only makes your argument look even less measured and I'll informed than it probably should be.
You need to learn how to use an apostrophe.
I guess that makes you Gen Y then?
:lol
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A lot of the people on this forum are 40+year olds who grew up in the 70s and 80s like myself when racism was pretty rife and as such their value set reflects that era. Their values wont change as they age, tactics might but when push comes to shove their values wont. Goodes challenges those values more than Winmar did or Michael Long because Goodes expects more. His values are from the late 80s and 90s when things began to change. Its as much a generational thing as a personal thing I think
I have to say I fall into this age category and I find your generalisation extremely offensive and wrong. You have no clue about my values, how I got them and what I think. You've made a broad assumption that is unfair and unreasonable.
But FWIW I have indigenous friends, who are very close friends, I love them like family. They are friends not because of their race but because they are great people. And when I've been with them I've been in the middle of and witnessed vilification towards them and me for that matter first hand. So I get it and it disgusts me.
I don't like Adam Goodes, haven't for a long time (read a number of years) because of the way he plays the game. That has nothing to do with his race
Would I or do I boo him? No I don't, I wouldn't because I simply cannot see the point.
No, I didn't like the way he handle the 13 y.o. girl situation. He missed a great opportunity to make the issue soemthing that we all could learn from but instead IMHO (and last time I checked we are still allowed to have 'em) his actions intentional or not made it an us versus them situation.
And no I also didn't like a number of comments he made while he was Australian of the Year and I am not just talking about his AOY acceptance, I am referring to comments he made over the course of 12 months. There are a number that were divisive and to suggest because reasonable thinking folks are upset by it and dare question it that they must racists is unjust and imflammatory. Are we not allowed to be upset and call those comments/actions into question? I would think if we want to have a proper debate then everyone must be prepared to listen and speak without fear of some sort of retribution on both sides
As I said whether he realises it or not his words and recently actions have polarised people. And it would appear that if you question anything on this you are a racists and that's simply not fair or realistic.
I am not disputing for one minute that this country have treated our indigenous Australians terribly. Govt after govt have stuffed up by constantly throwing money at something thinking it will fix all the problems. It didn't, it actually made things worse
This isn't and shouldn't be an us versus them issue but that appears to be what people are wanting to make it. Seems it's easier to divide and point the finger of blame rather than be prepared to debate the issues because of the fear of offending people. People argue that Adam Goodes challenges people and that people don't like those challenges. I'd say it cuts both ways.
This should be something where all us need to be prepared to work together, listen, discuss with the goal of wanting to improve things, to find solutions and be proud of our diverse cultures of the past and the future.
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Well said WP. :thumbsup
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I've followed this bloke's blog for a fair while now as I really value what he has to say on issues. It's a longish read but worth it if you are interested in hearing all points of view:
The Black Steam Train
Wednesday, 29 July 2015
The Wayland Smithers School of Journalism
The jeering was loud. Almost deafening in its unison - as hundreds of voices simultaneously uttered a long, slow “Boooooo” at the defiant man who stood before them from his position of power and privilege. The crowd refused to be silenced, their eyes fixed on him in an angry glare that reinforced the hatred coming from their mouths, the mocking tone of their cries reaching a crescendo that seemed to confuse their target, before his trusted advisor could intervene.
“They’re not saying ‘Boo’, they’re saying “Boo-urns”.
Just as Wayland Smithers protected Montgomery Burns in The Simpsons, sections of our media, together with the hierarchy of the unnecessary at the AFL, are now lying to protect Adam Goodes in much the same way. “They’re not booing you Adam, they’re just displaying their deep seated racism the only way they can”, or in Smithers-speak, “They’re not saying Boo, they’re saying “Boo-oong!”
Of course, we have the regular roster of apologists come out, shaming the country and our society for cutting down a sports star who happens to have Aboriginal blood as part of his racial make-up. The caring, informed and sensitive city dwellers who, despite their alabaster skin tone and lack of racial diversity, can not only see, smell and hear racism, but tragically, are so deeply affected by it that they feel they must differentiate themselves from the white person next to them by pointing at them and screaming racist long enough and loud enough that somehow, somewhere in the midst of all their righteous shouting, their own skin tone will be forgotten or ignored.
One thing I’ve come to understand about our society is that often, those who see themselves as the most tolerant, educated and enlightened are usually most racist, close-minded of all. These types were the first to pick up their keyboard or a microphone and declare that speaking negatively about the so-called ‘war dance’ effort from Adam Goodes over the weekend means that we are culturally ignorant, yet in making such a claim, have themselves ignored an entire segment of the Aboriginal community, who are appalled at the ‘performance’. In wanting us to be a homogenous community capable of only thinking and feeling one way, therefore enabling them to have the correct information and be ‘right’, they are guilty of the same crime they are continually accusing an entire nation of – RACISM.
The fact is, some Aboriginal people, myself included, saw that embarrassing display and did not feel pride. Instead, we felt shame, and a sense of sadness and loss. Some of this stems from seeing yet more of our traditions mocked and traded upon, invented and earning overnight acclaim, for little more than cheap thrills while the long standing traditions are ignored, left to die quietly and uncelebrated until they are forgotten and lost forever. Some of this comes from the fact we're tired of the theatrics, and how his need for attention will play out for the rest of us, and creep a little into our own lives. For an urban blackfella like me, I hate the fact that all of a sudden my opinion is relevant. I haven’t written a blog post in almost a year, or bothered to watch free to air television in even longer, yet received two messages on my phone today – one from SBS and the other from 2GB, wanting to know what I think about the whole Goodes drama and depending on what I think, whether they want to hear from me. They aren’t the only ones. Friends, acquaintances and even the random guy standing next to me in line at the supermarket suddenly wants to hear what I have to say, but only on this one topic, just for now. The easiest way to get rid of them is to gauge their personal feelings, then just agree with them. If someone is genuinely looking for a discussion, they are easy to tell, but most people just want me to be the token black who validates their own feelings on the matter.
Views like mine, that are contrary to the representations being made by the rabid, name-calling media, are ignored or rejected by all those who simply want to brand every incident or comment with an ‘ism’, because the object of their outrage is never to stimulate an educated debate or a discussion, but rather they wish to simply stand on their given podium and recite their narcissistic lecture, a pointless exercise for them to reinforce their followers that they alone are a bastion of cultural relevance, understanding and compassion. Sadly, theses ‘enlightened’ folks also tend to take their cues on history from the most removed people of a culture, merely because they tend to occupy the cubicle or apartment next to them, or speak with the most authoritarian voice or sense of victimhood – a sure sign that they must know what they are on about, according to our current high standards of journalism in this country – instead of seeking the truth and looking for those with knowledge that comes from a life of lived tradition, rather than being well removed from it.
I used to dance as a kid. Most of the kids who grew up in our house did it, but I have no intention of my own children doing the same. My reluctance has nothing to do with them being of mixed heritage though, and everything to do with cultural appropriation. I said I used to ‘dance’ as a kid, because that is really all it was. I was dressed in a lap-lap and painted up, was taught the moves the rest of the kids were doing, but it was all just a show. The dances were not ones passed on to us from our Elders, performed for a specific reason or during a time of unique and special celebration that led me to understand my culture in a meaningful way, but rather a collection of dance moves put together by a choreographer who may or may not have had a distant Aboriginal ancestor she found out about in her mid-thirties. A few documentaries and books from the library later, she had all the cultural awareness she felt she needed, and as a bunch of children not yet trusted with much knowledge, we didn’t know any better. We danced for smiling crowds of educated, enlightened people who clapped politely while murmuring “Oh, how cultural”, as they watched us enraptured. I would smile back at them and dance harder, oblivious to what I was doing and simply happy to receive positive praise and attention from a crowd of people I didn’t even know. But I was no better than a performing monkey to them, and for all their education and compassion, those crowds were the most racist people of all. Their wisdom and understanding of Aboriginal people and culture was a passing fetish, and in an effort to appease them, I was walking all over my own culture for their amusement, all of us completely ignorant to this heartbreaking fact.
After becoming a man, I learned better. I learned that our chants, and our dances are sacred. They are powerful and special secrets, not entertainment for the masses or political statements designed to make sure you get yet another mention in the nightly news. I also took it to heart that the title of ‘Warrior’ is like respect. It is always earned, not merely given because of the colour of your skin or your heritage. I am proud to say that some of my own ancestors include great Warriors - men who fought and died to protect their families and their way of life, and faced enormous battles that I could never fully comprehend from where I sit today, in a relative position of privilege by comparison, however you look at the statistics and facts. It would make a mockery of the suffering and heroism of my ancestors to assign a title of great reverence and historical significance, such as ‘Warrior’, to a person whose fame and heroism is derived from little more than the ability to show up a few weekends a year and kick a leather ball around an overly groomed piece of paddock.
As Adam walks out for his next game, before making his way onto that perfectly manicured stadium lawn, I suggest he take a deep, slow breath and reflect upon the reality of his life. Rather than having to emerge from the sheds for the ‘coloured people’, kept separate from the white folks playing beside him, he will run out after being supported by his entire team, not kept to the back. When he is thirsty, he doesn’t have to take a drink at the appropriately labelled drinking fountain, set aside for only folks with his racial identity, but rather will be served like a prince, with a special servant whose only job is to provide refreshments for the thirsty players, regardless of their skin colour or heritage. As he drives his brand new sports car to training, where he looks around at the other players arriving in their equally expensive vehicles and stops to realise he is paid just as much as them, if not more, he should perhaps pause a moment and wonder about whether he is fighting a war that has already been won, and instead of complaining from his position at the top, realise how those on the bottom rungs might be sick of hearing him whinging and would much rather he just got on with life.
http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/ (http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/)
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A lot of the people on this forum are 40+year olds who grew up in the 70s and 80s like myself when racism was pretty rife and as such their value set reflects that era. Their values wont change as they age, tactics might but when push comes to shove their values wont. Goodes challenges those values more than Winmar did or Michael Long because Goodes expects more. His values are from the late 80s and 90s when things began to change. Its as much a generational thing as a personal thing I think
I have to say I fall into this age category and I find your generalisation extremely offensive and wrong. You have no clue about my values, how I got them and what I think. You've made a broad assumption that is unfair and unreasonable.
But FWIW I have indigenous friends, who are very close friends, I love them like family. They are friends not because of their race but because they are great people. And when I've been with them I've been in the middle of and witnessed vilification towards them and me for that matter first hand. So I get it and it disgusts me.
I don't like Adam Goodes, haven't for a long time (read a number of years) because of the way he plays the game. That has nothing to do with his race
Would I or do I boo him? No I don't, I wouldn't because I simply cannot see the point.
No, I didn't like the way he handle the 13 y.o. girl situation. He missed a great opportunity to make the issue soemthing that we all could learn from but instead IMHO (and last time I checked we are still allowed to have 'em) his actions intentional or not made it an us versus them situation.
And no I also didn't like a number of comments he made while he was Australian of the Year and I am not just talking about his AOY acceptance, I am referring to comments he made over the course of 12 months. There are a number that were divisive and to suggest because reasonable thinking folks are upset by it and dare question it that they must racists is unjust and imflammatory. Are we not allowed to be upset and call those comments/actions into question? I would think if we want to have a proper debate then everyone must be prepared to listen and speak without fear of some sort of retribution on both sides
As I said whether he realises it or not his words and recently actions have polarised people. And it would appear that if you question anything on this you are a racists and that's simply not fair or realistic.
I am not disputing for one minute that this country have treated our indigenous Australians terribly. Govt after govt have stuffed up by constantly throwing money at something thinking it will fix all the problems. It didn't, it actually made things worse
This isn't and shouldn't be an us versus them issue but that appears to be what people are wanting to make it. Seems it's easier to divide and point the finger of blame rather than be prepared to debate the issues because of the fear of offending people. People argue that Adam Goodes challenges people and that people don't like those challenges. I'd say it cuts both ways.
This should be something where all us need to be prepared to work together, listen, discuss with the goal of wanting to improve things, to find solutions and be proud of our diverse cultures of the past and the future.
what exactly did goodes say in his acceptance speech that people take issue with?
Here is the speech transcript.
“It’s an honour to win an award for doing stuff that you love and that you believe in. For me, I chose that life is all about actions and interactions. I believe that our choices and how we interact with each other creates our relationships and this in turn creates the environment that we live in.
Our environment shapes our communities which then shapes the country that we all live in. Growing up as an indigenous Australian I have experienced my fair share of racism. While it has been difficult a lot of the time, it has also taught me a lot and also shaped my values and what I believe in today. I believe racism is a community issue which we all need to address and that’s why racism stops with me.
There are always two ways we can look at a situation. We can choose to get angry. Or not. We can choose to help others. Or not. Or choose to be offended. Or not. We can keep our silence or educate ourselves and others about racism and minority populations.
It is not just about taking responsibility for your own actions but speaking to your mates when they take out their anger on their loved ones, minority groups or make racist remarks. It means treating people the way you want to be treated, whether that’s your manners, the way you talk to people, whether they are your loved ones or the person serving your dinner. It’s about how you choose to give back and make a difference to those around you, your community or your country that goes outside of just yourself.
I believe we are all connected whether we like it or not. We are all equal and the same in so many ways. My hope is that we as a nation can break down the silos between races, break down those stereotypes of minority populations, indigenous populations and all other minority groups. I hope we can be proud of our heritage regardless of the colour of our skin and be proud to be Australian.
I’m not here to tell you what to think, or how to act to raise your children. All I’m here to do is tell you about my experiences and hope you choose to be aware of your actions and interactions so that together we can eliminate racism.
I’m so grateful for this award and this honour, however the real reward is when everyone is talking to their mates, to their families and their children, having those conversations and educating others about racism. What it looks like, how hurtful and how pointless it is and how we can eliminate it.
The ultimate reward is when all Australians see each other as equals and treat each other as equals. To me, everything is about people and the choices we make. I believe it’s the people and the interactions between us that makes this country so special. Thank you so much and have a great Australia Day.”
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Thats an interesting read smokey and highlights one thing i have learned when it comes to indigenous affairs - that many black fellas take umbrance at those who have not walked in their shoes, having the presumption to speak on their behalf and even worse, tell them what is best for them, even if their motives are good.
reading that blog, i couldnt help but see references that could easily have been directed to some of the posts being made here on the eissue
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A lot of the people on this forum are 40+year olds who grew up in the 70s and 80s like myself when racism was pretty rife and as such their value set reflects that era. Their values wont change as they age, tactics might but when push comes to shove their values wont. Goodes challenges those values more than Winmar did or Michael Long because Goodes expects more. His values are from the late 80s and 90s when things began to change. Its as much a generational thing as a personal thing I think
I have to say I fall into this age category and I find your generalisation extremely offensive and wrong. You have no clue about my values, how I got them and what I think. You've made a broad assumption that is unfair and unreasonable.
But FWIW I have indigenous friends, who are very close friends, I love them like family. They are friends not because of their race but because they are great people. And when I've been with them I've been in the middle of and witnessed vilification towards them and me for that matter first hand. So I get it and it disgusts me.
I don't like Adam Goodes, haven't for a long time (read a number of years) because of the way he plays the game. That has nothing to do with his race
Would I or do I boo him? No I don't, I wouldn't because I simply cannot see the point.
No, I didn't like the way he handle the 13 y.o. girl situation. He missed a great opportunity to make the issue soemthing that we all could learn from but instead IMHO (and last time I checked we are still allowed to have 'em) his actions intentional or not made it an us versus them situation.
And no I also didn't like a number of comments he made while he was Australian of the Year and I am not just talking about his AOY acceptance, I am referring to comments he made over the course of 12 months. There are a number that were divisive and to suggest because reasonable thinking folks are upset by it and dare question it that they must racists is unjust and imflammatory. Are we not allowed to be upset and call those comments/actions into question? I would think if we want to have a proper debate then everyone must be prepared to listen and speak without fear of some sort of retribution on both sides
As I said whether he realises it or not his words and recently actions have polarised people. And it would appear that if you question anything on this you are a racists and that's simply not fair or realistic.
I am not disputing for one minute that this country have treated our indigenous Australians terribly. Govt after govt have stuffed up by constantly throwing money at something thinking it will fix all the problems. It didn't, it actually made things worse
This isn't and shouldn't be an us versus them issue but that appears to be what people are wanting to make it. Seems it's easier to divide and point the finger of blame rather than be prepared to debate the issues because of the fear of offending people. People argue that Adam Goodes challenges people and that people don't like those challenges. I'd say it cuts both ways.
This should be something where all us need to be prepared to work together, listen, discuss with the goal of wanting to improve things, to find solutions and be proud of our diverse cultures of the past and the future.
No possible to speak on this without fear of retribution. The afl and media and pc do gooders have set the agenda. If one is racist according to them then you are guilty on the spot. No questions asked.
He has not had an affair with a team mates wife
Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....
Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!
Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
As much as I try, I can't for the life of me inspire myself to get outraged by right wing lightweights these days.
I'm left of centre and don't fall into the age profile stated on this thread. Don't generalise and lump people into a category. It only makes your argument look even less measured and I'll informed than it probably should be.
You need to learn how to use an apostrophe.
I guess that makes you Gen Y then?
:lol
Nah a late gen x. But 65 would be proud of my punctuation. Who would of thunk it
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Does any percentage from the Dreamtime jumpers sale proceeds go towards any foundations?
I might pick one up tonight
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what exactly did goodes say in his acceptance speech that people take issue with?
I can't speak for others al, I think I made the point there are others things he said while AOY that I have issue with.
I've re-read the transcript also re-read his handover speech when he handed the award over to Rosie Battie this year. And you know what regarding changing the constitution I agree with him 100% and more.
But on the day of him getting the awared in news reports he is quoted as also having said this:
Goodes admitted Sunday’s Australia Day celebrations prompted mixed emotions after he learnt the full story of the country’s settlement in regards to his own heritage when he was younger.
At the ceremony, Goodes admitted Australia Day celebrations prompted mixed emotions.
“There was a lot of anger, a lot of sorrow, for this day and very much the feeling of invasion day,” he said.
“But in the last five years, I’ve really changed my perception of what is Australia Day, of what it is to be Australian and for me, it’s about celebrating the positives, that we are still here as indigenous people, our culture is one of the longest surviving cultures in the world, over 40,000 years.
“That is something we need to celebrate and all Australians need to celebrate.
“There are people out there thinking that today is a great day for Australia — well, it is.
“It’s a day we celebrate over 225 years of European settlement and right now, that’s who we are as a nation but we also need to acknowledge our fantastic Aboriginal history of over 40,000 years and just know that some Aboriginal people out there today are feeling a little bit angry, a little bit soft in the heart today because of that, and that’s OK as well.”
From
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/adam-goodes-australian-of-the-year-speech-turned-fans-against-sydney-swans-champ-but-is-it-really-divisive/story-fni5f22o-1227463023081
Which the HUN reposted yesterday. Again IIRC from last year I think the bits I highlighted are the things that upset people especially on social media. Not helped by the media who last year reported his comments one way and have now appeared to do a complete 360
All about perception and how things get received I suppose
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Does any percentage from the Dreamtime jumpers sale proceeds go towards any foundations?
I might pick one up tonight
I know for the actual Dreamtime round a % of the sales goes to the Kooranji Institute
And overall 5% of total merch sales go to the AMF
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Cheers smokey, that was a good read. Sounds much like my friend who tries to keep out of the conversation because he feels most people just expect him to side with Goodes. He either feels like he's being attacked by people who disagree with Goodes (even though he holds the same or very similar opinions to those people) or that the other side just want him to confirm what they believe is racist behaviour.
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Have a look at his blog from 5th August last year titled "Adam Goodes - ensuring racism as a sport ". Funny how it's played out since then.
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Thats an interesting read smokey and highlights one thing i have learned when it comes to indigenous affairs - that many black fellas take umbrance at those who have not walked in their shoes, having the presumption to speak on their behalf and even worse, tell them what is best for them, even if their motives are good.
"White Saviour Syndrome"
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Anyways......Forget the pc do gooders. There's a game of footy tonight :gotigers
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Does any percentage from the Dreamtime jumpers sale proceeds go towards any foundations?
I might pick one up tonight
I know for the actual Dreamtime round a % of the sales goes to the Kooranji Institute
And overall 5% of total merch sales go to the AMF
Thanks :thumbsup
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Some pinko bird:
"Clear cover, for those with racism in their heart"
:rollin
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"ADAM Goodes insists he is unperturbed by the incessant booing he cops from opposition crowds during games, choosing to view it as a mark of respect."
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-17/dont-lose-the-boos#sthash.TX6jLLLD.dpuf
Back in 2014, but some enlightened people with over inflated opinions are adamant it's racist because it started after the war dance :lol
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Gill wrote a letter how cute
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Poofter decision
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Great post Redan.
The racists started to move in the moment Goodes complained about being called an ape, aided and abetted by the usual outraged journos. Goodes, complaining about being called an ape was apparently playing the race card.
The lack of action from the AFL over Eddie's King Kong 'joke'-he should have been suspended under the racial vilification code-was appalling.
Then Goodes' comments about Invasion Day were not only taken out of context but the meaning of them was completely ignored.
We were not listening then, and we are still not listening now.
I have to admit I am surprised that it is a minority on this forum who see this for what it is-racism.
It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.
A lot of the people on this forum are 40+year olds who grew up in the 70s and 80s like myself when racism was pretty rife and as such their value set reflects that era. Their values wont change as they age, tactics might but when push comes to shove their values wont. Goodes challenges those values more than Winmar did or Michael Long because Goodes expects more. His values are from the late 80s and 90s when things began to change. Its as much a generational thing as a personal thing I think
Surely one of the worst posts ever.
Mate, you are yourself being prejudicial against people of a certain age group. Just like racists who make judgements on people due to their skin color or race, you are doing the same with peoples ages. You are being ageist. Just as bad really.
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A lot of the people on this forum are 40+year olds who grew up in the 70s and 80s like myself when racism was pretty rife and as such their value set reflects that era. Their values wont change as they age, tactics might but when push comes to shove their values wont. Goodes challenges those values more than Winmar did or Michael Long because Goodes expects more. His values are from the late 80s and 90s when things began to change. Its as much a generational thing as a personal thing I think
I'm sometimes asked and I always generally agree that, Yes I'm a racist too.
I usually explain that I was raised in Australian society from the 50s and 60s and thus was taught to be racist. I struggle against it.
Interesting watching The Feed tonight although they had their usual "experts" - Warren Mundine and Charles Perkins who didn't add much to the debate.
What was interesting was seeing the Winmar, Long and Goodes racist incidents.
Had forgotten it was Collingwood in all those cases and it was the Collingwood president Eddie McAllister who made the public comparison between Goodes and King Kong in the days AFTER the girl's ape comment. I note that Eddie McAllister has now come out and warned the Swans cheer squad against responding to racist comments as it could cause a riot.
Poor old Eddie, he just doesn't get it. The cheer squad should not confront people over racism, exactly as Goodes has done, because it may cause public disturbance?
Poor old Nafan, forced to stand alongside Eddie.
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Lucky we got some fat rich white arseholes like Bolt and Alan Jones to tell that "uppity Black" how he should think and act hey?
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If Sydney make it to the gf against us,
Im booing him non stop
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Adam Goodes plays the victim and it makes me sick. Alan Jones was absolutely right with everything he said.
From my perspective - Adam Goodes is a highly paid footballer and who comes from a community that claims that people don't know what it feels like to prejudiced against from birth or from being toddlers, I ask the question, what about people with disabilities, they get no respite from anywhere, they get no publicity, a lot end up being long term unemployed living on the poverty line, no one gives a stuff. For me, I would like to see as a nation do more for them than for people like Goodes, if that makes me a racist then bad luck, I call it how I see it, Goodes is up himself and he thinks he is more important than anyone else.
Im 45 years old now, I haven't booed anyone since I was 12 I reckon, If I saw Goodes play footy, I would Boo and I wouldn't give a stuff. I have absolutely no time for him. NONE - he can get stuffed as far as Im concerned.
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No doubt that some of the booing is racially driven. But plenty of it is theatre.
Finey said it perfectly last night. His neighbour, a Sri Lankan born hawks supporter along with his 2 boys boo'ed Goodes all night. His boys joined in and asked 'why are we booing' his Dad laughed and said 'because it's fun and Goodes plays for the opposition'
It's been handled awfully. The entire AFL community has been labelled racists from idiots in politics, newspapers and top end of the AFL.
AFL have plenty of villains and plenty of heroes. Goodes wants to desperately be a hero as does the AFL. The more it's forced the wrong way the worse it gets. Not racism, albeit no doubt some racists have joined in and fuelled fire.
Adam Goodes is the John Cena of the AFL.
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\what about people with disabilities, they get no respite from anywhere, they get no publicity, a lot end up being long term unemployed living on the poverty line, no one gives a stuff. For me, I would like to see as a nation do more for them \
Were they special needs kids running out with the players last night and also playing at half time? Not that I'm disagreeing with what you say, in fact it probably highlights what you are saying because of the fact I even have to ask because it wasn't made obvious
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Very proud of the RFC this week & last night for the way the club represented its playing list, members and the Korin Gamadji Institute.
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first and foremost forget about the booing for a second. I agree with a lot of what all have said. My question and i only have 1.
If it, or anything is affecting someone's welfare would you stop doing it or continue to to do it?
I dont know if it is for certain, only he can answer that, but lets assume it is so would it be enough for you to move on and let it go even if its till the end of the year.
Your answers would do a lot to describe what type of person you are.
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first and foremost forget about the booing for a second. I agree with a lot of what all have said. My question and i only have 1.
If it, or anything is affecting someone's welfare would you stop doing it or continue to to do it?
I dont know if it is for certain, only he can answer that, but lets assume it is so would it be enough for you to move on and let it go even if its till the end of the year.
Your answers would do a lot to describe what type of person you are.
Welfare
Nice word
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Would have preferred to see our sash after the win, not some propaganda jumper worn for a staged agenda.
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Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/istandwithadam-social-media-campaign-rallies-for-sydney-swans-star-adam-goodes-20150731-gip9p9.html
(http://r31.imgfast.net/users/3115/50/25/04/smiles/938804.gif)
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#illridewithyougoosey
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#istandtopiss
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Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/istandwithadam-social-media-campaign-rallies-for-sydney-swans-star-adam-goodes-20150731-gip9p9.html
(http://r31.imgfast.net/users/3115/50/25/04/smiles/938804.gif)
Look at me, look at me.
:thumbsup
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Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/istandwithadam-social-media-campaign-rallies-for-sydney-swans-star-adam-goodes-20150731-gip9p9.html
(http://r31.imgfast.net/users/3115/50/25/04/smiles/938804.gif)
Look at me, look at me.
:thumbsup
Good call but :bow
(By dioc)
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Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/istandwithadam-social-media-campaign-rallies-for-sydney-swans-star-adam-goodes-20150731-gip9p9.html
(http://r31.imgfast.net/users/3115/50/25/04/smiles/938804.gif)
Look at me, look at me.
:thumbsup
Yep that is indeed the mentality displayed on twitter as it is with most people who constantly push their politics on the internet. Glad we can finally agree on something. Thumbs up back at ya....
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Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....
www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/istandwithadam-social-media-campaign-rallies-for-sydney-swans-star-adam-goodes-20150731-gip9p9.html
(http://r31.imgfast.net/users/3115/50/25/04/smiles/938804.gif)
Look at me, look at me.
:thumbsup
Yep that is indeed the mentality displayed on twitter as it is with most people who constantly push their politics on the internet. Glad we can finally agree on something. Thumbs up back at ya....
So should the Speaker resign?
Maybe that's two things.
:thumbsup
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120 characters is about the attention span of many these days
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120 characters is about the attention span of many these days
Especially Gen Y.
:lol
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Too be fair Judge, it wasn't that hard to predict - exact same scenario has played out at least once a week over the last two years or so....
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120 characters is about the attention span of many these days
Especially Gen Y.
:lol
Don't get me started on that excuse of a generation :banghead
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Gen gaY
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Just when you think it can't get any more ridiculous....
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/sydney-swans/blaming-adam-goodes-for-booing-saga-akin-to-victim-blaming-sydney-swans-chairman-andrew-pridham-says-20150801-gipfep.html
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Didn't once enter my mind during the game or afterwards, it's all about the Tigers for me stuff everything else.
What is this? Where am I?
Really just don't care....
Go Suns, start of west coke falling in a heap here, I have no fear any more :gotigers
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This pinko chick from the fox sports channel, 'back page' is funny
The bigbrother guy too