One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on October 02, 2010, 02:26:20 AM
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:help
Rebuilding of Richmond enters next phase under coach Damian Hardwick
* Greg Denham
* From: The Australian
* October 02, 2010
THE reshaping of Richmond under first-year coach Damian Hardwick is in full swing.
The Tigers are certain to add some forward support with the acquisition of recently delisted Demon Brad Miller.
Miller, 27, has been invited to join Richmond in December as a mature-age rookie, with a role as a back-up forward for John Coleman medallist Jack Riewoldt and injured young centre half-forward Ben Griffiths, who has undergone reconstructive surgery on both shoulders.
Recruited to Melbourne from Queensland by Craig Cameron, who is now the Tigers' general manager of football operations, Miller is also viewed at Punt Road as a future coach.
"Brad is a fantastic individual who should add great leadership qualities to our group," Cameron said. "He fully understands the role we have planned for him at Richmond, so we're hoping he'll come to us through the system."
The versatile Miller, who has also been successfully used as a key defender, played 133 games for Melbourne since his debut in 2002, but only six this season in a year in which Demons coach Dean Bailey's main focus was to provide more games for his younger players.
Miller was a match winner with five goals against Port Adelaide in round nine, but he played the majority of the second half of the season in the VFL, where he booted 10 goals in one match in August.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/rebuilding-of-richmond-enters-next-phase-under-coach-damian-hardwick/story-e6frg7mf-1225933015173
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Well this will get the tounges wagging..... :lol
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Like I've said elsewhere, he won't take games from young kids. He's there to provide structure at Coburg and to come into the 1s if we get significant injuries.
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Like I've said elsewhere, he won't take games from young kids. He's there to provide structure at Coburg and to come into the 1s if we get significant injuries.
Lets hope he doesnt end up like..... um, was it Hunter from the Cats?? I know he was older but gee that didn't pay off.
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Of course this will get tongues wagging as it's just plain stupid :banghead. Seriously if it wasn't us it would be laughable :rollin.
Why does a club in supposedly full rebuild mode developing and giving gametime to younger players need the insurance of a 27 year old washed up dud to run around at Coburg for 22 weeks ???. Injuries or no injuries, it's not as though we're worrying about wins and making the finals as we are miles away yet. Add Hislop being demoted to a rookie and that's two rookie spots at least just tossed on the garbage heap. Sheesh just when you think after one draft year the club has finally learnt something about decent recruiting, it's back to stupid old short-cut habits the next. Hello Groundhog day :help
Craig Cameron doing his best to imitate Greg Miller and Greg Beck :yep
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Like I've said elsewhere, he won't take games from young kids. He's there to provide structure at Coburg and to come into the 1s if we get significant injuries.
Lets hope he doesnt end up like..... um, was it Hunter from the Cats?? I know he was older but gee that didn't pay off.
WAT, did you mean Kent Kingsley?
Kingsley was picked up in the PSD so he was clogging a spot on our senior list.
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Like I've said elsewhere, he won't take games from young kids. He's there to provide structure at Coburg and to come into the 1s if we get significant injuries.
Lets hope he doesnt end up like..... um, was it Hunter from the Cats?? I know he was older but gee that didn't pay off.
WAT, did you mean Kent Kingsley?
Kingsley was picked up in the PSD so he was clogging a spot on our senior list.
Thats him mate, I was editing my post as you posted yours, cheers and I totally agree with your previous comments too.
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Think Miller has a lot to offer.
Kicked 10 in an VFL game this year.
Way too many experts on this forum, you should try getting a job at a club ;)
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
brad miller is a giant lump of drift wood floating with us up poo creek
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
brad miller is a giant lump of drift wood floating with us up poo creek
Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
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welcome to tigerland pia :bow :bow :cheers :cheers :gotigers :gobdrop :clapping :clapping :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :santa :santa :santa :santa
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I've got no issue with a role focused around a spot at Coburg. It's ok to say "focus on youth" but like real life, youth still needs to learn and they don't learn by growing alone - mentoring and 'do as I do' guidance is still paramount to their successful transition to adulthood (senior player). There's more to building and developing our list than just chocking it up with youth - the value of Ben Cousins has been well accepted on here - and even though Miller is not a player in the same class, if they (the club) are looking to him in a coaching-type role then they obviously rate his input. Remember, this is the same Brad Miller that knocked back a farewell game with Melbourne seniors because he didn't want to take the spot of one of the kids so I'm happy to trust the judgment of the club that he will be used in a suitable role. Cameron's words give me heart - "He fully understands the role we have planned for him at Richmond" - that he is not being sought as a shortcut. As Danog said, insurance if we have a horror run with injuries but a role focused at Coburg accelerating the development of the kids is fine by me.
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I've got no issue with a role focused around a spot at Coburg. It's ok to say "focus on youth" but like real life, youth still needs to learn and they don't learn by growing alone - mentoring and 'do as I do' guidance is still paramount to their successful transition to adulthood (senior player). There's more to building and developing our list than just chocking it up with youth - the value of Ben Cousins has been well accepted on here - and even though Miller is not a player in the same class, if they (the club) are looking to him in a coaching-type role then they obviously rate his input. Remember, this is the same Brad Miller that knocked back a farewell game with Melbourne seniors because he didn't want to take the spot of one of the kids so I'm happy to trust the judgment of the club that he will be used in a suitable role. Cameron's words give me heart - "He fully understands the role we have planned for him at Richmond" - that he is not being sought as a shortcut. As Danog said, insurance if we have a horror run with injuries but a role focused at Coburg accelerating the development of the kids is fine by me.
Good post.
I don't feel that this will be Kingsley mk2.
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Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
Melbourne decided to go with youth ;)
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welcome to tigerland pia :bow :bow :cheers :cheers :gotigers :gobdrop :clapping :clapping :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :santa :santa :santa :santa
Blaisees the only one in here who has his priorities in the right order. ;D
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I've got no issue with a role focused around a spot at Coburg. It's ok to say "focus on youth" but like real life, youth still needs to learn and they don't learn by growing alone - mentoring and 'do as I do' guidance is still paramount to their successful transition to adulthood (senior player). There's more to building and developing our list than just chocking it up with youth - the value of Ben Cousins has been well accepted on here - and even though Miller is not a player in the same class, if they (the club) are looking to him in a coaching-type role then they obviously rate his input. Remember, this is the same Brad Miller that knocked back a farewell game with Melbourne seniors because he didn't want to take the spot of one of the kids so I'm happy to trust the judgment of the club that he will be used in a suitable role. Cameron's words give me heart - "He fully understands the role we have planned for him at Richmond" - that he is not being sought as a shortcut. As Danog said, insurance if we have a horror run with injuries but a role focused at Coburg accelerating the development of the kids is fine by me.
No problem with that Smokes (except the insurance bit, what are we insuring ourselves from?) so put him on at Coburg as a playing coach who can provide that mentoring on field to our young developing talls.
Get those 500 games in the young players as promised, find out who can play and move on.
Any spot on our rookie list must be used to find something speculative - Liam Jurrah could be out there but we won't know with Brad Sh1tbox on our list.
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No problem with that Smokes (except the insurance bit, what are we insuring ourselves from?)
We are going to lose Thursfield, Moore does his knee Round 1, Gourdis doesn't come up, Astbury crashes into the fence in Round 4 and is out for 10 weeks. Now we're down to McGuane and ........? Grimes? Griffiths? We might be rebuilding and developing but we learned how to fight out games and win some last year, and those critical lessons will fade and diminish if we aren't competitive going forward. We can't keep losing and getting smashed in the sole pursuit of putting games into kids - our development to success must be rounded by effort and results. We might not climb far up the ladder but anything less than more competitive will be a fail in 2011. Miller as a mentoring mature age rookie is a cheap insurance policy who will mainly earn his keep by assisting the development at Coburg.
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Does a mature age rookie spot need to be filled? If there is no mature age rookies on the list can that spot be filled by a young rookie?
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the problem is that this seems to be coming on top of houli and grigg ... lets be honest here these names are the usual substandard type of stuff weve seen from RFC over 25 years in recruiting.
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Does a mature age rookie spot need to be filled?
No.
If there is no mature age rookies on the list can that spot be filled by a young rookie?
Yes.
There are no mature age spots, as such.
There are 8 rookie spots. 2 of those spots spots can be filled by mature age rookies.
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What is going on down there? :banghead
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:lol not quite the meltdown I expected, but it could still happen. This should be priceless.
AS smokey pointed out, the quote about Miller understanding and accepting his potential role is an important one to consider.
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I think people need to take into account the situation we find ourselves in given the compromised draft. The talent pool begins to dilute much quicker this year bcause of the draft concessions of the GC both before the draft with the 17 year old talent and then with 9 picks in the first 20. On top of this, when it comes to the Rookie draft GC has the first 5 picks. What this all means is that their will be far less potential/project players left over for the Rookie Draft meaning by the time you get to your 4th pick etc you might as well fill a hole in the list which for us is obviously leadership.
As a rookie Miller will only play if another player goes down and we are desperate. What he will give us throughout the season is both onfield leadership for our young developing players playing for Coburg plus coaching during training/meetings for our other players.
Miller is not there to take the place of a young player but more for insurance in case we a desperate and more-so, for his leadership and coaching ability.
Given the state of the play with the rookie draft and available talent I think this is a clever move. :thumbsup
Stripes
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I rate Miller as a forward and I believe he was played out of position as a backman when at the D's. Whenever he was moved forward there he kicked goals. At 193cm He would add some height to our midget forward line if we lose one of our talls. He is a good kick of the footy and in all honesty I would prefer to see him in our forward line before Thursfield and McGuane who we threw up forward when we were short last season. Sure we are rebuilding but we can't have the kids running the creche. With Cuz gone, we need some extra onfield experience and Miller would be ideal as he reads the game well, has good hands and has a good work ethic. Even if he doesn't get a run, I'm sure his experience would be valuable at training and at Coburg.
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Does a mature age rookie spot need to be filled?
No.
If there is no mature age rookies on the list can that spot be filled by a young rookie?
Yes.
There are no mature age spots, as such.
There are 8 rookie spots. 2 of those spots spots can be filled by mature age rookies.
Thanks Fish! I say no then!
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
brad miller is a giant lump of drift wood floating with us up poo creek
Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
lmao hes a spud.
no talent, just a big bloke who offers a target, Ben Holland mkII
waste of time
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Got really excited there for a while as I thought we were recruiting Brad Green.
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
brad miller is a giant lump of drift wood floating with us up poo creek
Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
lmao hes a spud.
no talent, just a big bloke who offers a target, Ben Holland mkII
waste of time
He is hardly big.- would be jack riewoldt size
he isnt a waste of time and he aint a spud
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
brad miller is a giant lump of drift wood floating with us up poo creek
Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
lmao hes a spud.
no talent, just a big bloke who offers a target, Ben Holland mkII
waste of time
Exactly Tony, He offers a target. What is wrong with that when the guy has good hands and can kick. He has a very good technique actually. Who knows what he might be capable of with some decent delivery. Ben Holland MKII is drawing a long bow. Miller has a ton more pace than Holland. The only comparison you can make between the two is that they both played for Melbourne and both have bigger bodies. I think quite a few of you here have the blinkers on regarding Miller. Firstly he will be drafted as a Mature age rookie, not a first choice KPP. Secondly , have a look at some of his games, you might be surprised to see that he is not as you say a complete waste of time. thirdly, If our current football dept have a specific role for him at the club then thats good enough for me as we are not run by a bunch of nuffers anymore.
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
brad miller is a giant lump of drift wood floating with us up poo creek
Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
lmao hes a spud.
no talent, just a big bloke who offers a target, Ben Holland mkII
waste of time
He is hardly big.- would be jack riewoldt size
he isnt a waste of time and he aint a spud
he moves and turns like the titanic.
melbourne have no fwd line and they are getting rid of him, think about it ::)
yeah hes no spud
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
brad miller is a giant lump of drift wood floating with us up poo creek
Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
lmao hes a spud.
no talent, just a big bloke who offers a target, Ben Holland mkII
waste of time
Exactly Tony, He offers a target. What is wrong with that when the guy has good hands and can kick. He has a very good technique actually. Who knows what he might be capable of with some decent delivery. Ben Holland MKII is drawing a long bow. Miller has a ton more pace than Holland. The only comparison you can make between the two is that they both played for Melbourne and both have bigger bodies. I think quite a few of you here have the blinkers on regarding Miller. Firstly he will be drafted as a Mature age rookie, not a first choice KPP. Secondly , have a look at some of his games, you might be surprised to see that he is not as you say a complete waste of time. thirdly, If our current football dept have a specific role for him at the club then thats good enough for me as we are not run by a bunch of nuffers anymore.
sorry tiga but i completey disagree with that. Melboure have an ace midfield, well in advance of us as a side and their ball movement is some of the best in the league, yet they get rid of him and see NO VALUE in keeping him to use as a foil to young Jack Watts. Modern footy has passed him wayyyy by, he is ultra slow, turns like te titanic and doesnt have the running capacity/agility to offer anything. Rebound off him would kill the side he plays for. I absolutely think this is a complete wase of time if true
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Reading the article I got the impression he would be there for a specific purpose (which wasn't properly explained). The backup to Jack and Griff seemed to be a last resort scenario.
Having had Cuz at the club as a "younger / playing" leader / mentor for our mids and sensing that this has been quite a success, then I wonder if we are looking for a similar type of mentor for our forwards and defenders. Quite a bit was made of his character in the article and there was a fair amount of talk about moving to coaching and using this opportunity as a path. It also stated that he knew exactly what his role would be which sounds to me that it wont be a conventional playing role.
I wouldn't be surprised if he spent the whole season at Coburg from reading that article. You may not agree with the idea of having a playing coach and you may feel that this is a waste of a rookie spot, but it does sound like some inivative thinking. Our coaches seem to like to think outside the box.
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I reckon they have a plan, I think B.Miller went alright and he is probably being picked up for more than just his football talent.
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
brad miller is a giant lump of drift wood floating with us up poo creek
Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
lmao hes a spud.
no talent, just a big bloke who offers a target, Ben Holland mkII
waste of time
Exactly Tony, He offers a target. What is wrong with that when the guy has good hands and can kick. He has a very good technique actually. Who knows what he might be capable of with some decent delivery. Ben Holland MKII is drawing a long bow. Miller has a ton more pace than Holland. The only comparison you can make between the two is that they both played for Melbourne and both have bigger bodies. I think quite a few of you here have the blinkers on regarding Miller. Firstly he will be drafted as a Mature age rookie, not a first choice KPP. Secondly , have a look at some of his games, you might be surprised to see that he is not as you say a complete waste of time. thirdly, If our current football dept have a specific role for him at the club then thats good enough for me as we are not run by a bunch of nuffers anymore.
sorry tiga but i completey disagree with that. Melboure have an ace midfield, well in advance of us as a side and their ball movement is some of the best in the league, yet they get rid of him and see NO VALUE in keeping him to use as a foil to young Jack Watts. Modern footy has passed him wayyyy by, he is ultra slow, turns like te titanic and doesnt have the running capacity/agility to offer anything. Rebound off him would kill the side he plays for. I absolutely think this is a complete wase of time if true
Tony only this Year have Melbourne been any good in the midfield and Miller only played 6 games but in those 6 games he kicked 10 goals.
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
brad miller is a giant lump of drift wood floating with us up poo creek
Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
lmao hes a spud.
no talent, just a big bloke who offers a target, Ben Holland mkII
waste of time
Exactly Tony, He offers a target. What is wrong with that when the guy has good hands and can kick. He has a very good technique actually. Who knows what he might be capable of with some decent delivery. Ben Holland MKII is drawing a long bow. Miller has a ton more pace than Holland. The only comparison you can make between the two is that they both played for Melbourne and both have bigger bodies. I think quite a few of you here have the blinkers on regarding Miller. Firstly he will be drafted as a Mature age rookie, not a first choice KPP. Secondly , have a look at some of his games, you might be surprised to see that he is not as you say a complete waste of time. thirdly, If our current football dept have a specific role for him at the club then thats good enough for me as we are not run by a bunch of nuffers anymore.
sorry tiga but i completey disagree with that. Melboure have an ace midfield, well in advance of us as a side and their ball movement is some of the best in the league, yet they get rid of him and see NO VALUE in keeping him to use as a foil to young Jack Watts. Modern footy has passed him wayyyy by, he is ultra slow, turns like te titanic and doesnt have the running capacity/agility to offer anything. Rebound off him would kill the side he plays for. I absolutely think this is a complete wase of time if true
Tony only this Year have Melbourne been any good in the midfield and Miller only played 6 games but in those 6 games he kicked 10 goals.
Your right, He might adapt to tiger land bettter tahn in melb ... we can only wait and trust Dimma
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
brad miller is a giant lump of drift wood floating with us up poo creek
Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
lmao hes a spud.
no talent, just a big bloke who offers a target, Ben Holland mkII
waste of time
He is hardly big.- would be jack riewoldt size
he isnt a waste of time and he aint a spud
he moves and turns like the titanic.
melbourne have no fwd line and they are getting rid of him, think about it ::)
yeah hes no spud
Melbourne have Jurrah and Watts and will prlly draft a fey forward in Darling or Lynch which is a very good young forward line. :-[
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Miller 10 goals in VFL were s. Gold Coast
a team of 17 yoas lacking key defenders
I reckon they have a plan, I think B.Miller went alright and he is probably being picked up for more than just his football talent.
his attractive misses?
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Having seen the discussions between tony and the claw regarding bradshaw i can see that tony will not see any benefit in Miller at all.
To me he will probably be used in a role that some of us thought would have been suitable for Bradshaw, that is a leadership/mentor role as well as providing much needed structure in the forward line if he is required to do so.
The major difference is the cost. Bradshaw wanted three years, which would have been too long and Miller ".. fully understands the role we have planned for him at Richmond" whereas Bradshaw would not have been happy with a role that did not involve being a regular senior player. As a rookie he will be cheap and on a yearly basis.
Don't underestimate the importance of structure in footy, particularly modern football. Recently while commentating Harley was asked what he would say to the players when giving a pep talk before a big game and he said that he would just remind the players of the importance of sticking to their structures.
When griffiths played last year was when Jack played his best footy. It was with Griffiths in the side that they were best able to isolate Jack one on one and he thrived. When we lost him we also seemed to loose that structure, despite trying a number of options. Having green will be provide a back up if a key forward goes down long term without expecting any key forwards drafted this year from having to step up before they are ready.
If he only plays at coburg again he will provide much needed structure up forward so that the players playing for coburg are playing with the same setups as they will when they get a senior gig.
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Agree fully Al. Griff is a smart operator and was really good despite not getting much himself, he did all the things that helped keep our stuff together. He is, barring injuries, gonna be a gem.
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I think people think we are getting Miller to play as part of our best 22?! ??? It seems pretty obvious to me that he is not. He is their as insurance and for leadership. I would be surprized if he played more than a handful of games at best but will be an onfield coach for us at Coburg and a leader around the club which we are lacking.
He will not be taking the place of a young potential star no more than a mature aged VFL player would. If we used a pick on him then I would be upset but he will be one of our last choices in the rookie draft so...
Stripes
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Miller 10 goals in VFL were s. Gold Coast
a team of 17 yoas lacking key defenders
I reckon they have a plan, I think B.Miller went alright and he is probably being picked up for more than just his football talent.
his attractive misses?
Lock him in for 10 goals round 2 then........
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my concern is now about the number of rejects coming to Richmond
Houli
Grigg maybe
Sherman
Miller
Its not on. Its rubbish recruiting. Its short cut after short cut. The worst thing is that we need to pay something to get these guys whether its other players leaving or draft picks. In my opinion its bordering on disgraceful if anymore than 1 of these players comes to Richmond.
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Ramps its only rubbish recruiting to you mate! no disprespect but Houli and Grigg are 22 years old and have had slow starts to thier careers for numerous reasons, they will be at thier peak when the rest of our side is aswell in 3 -4 years.
Sherman is the one i want the most i think he fits the bill for what we desperatly lack to perfection and want him more than anyone!
Miller is a fantastic idea! His leadership is highly ranked around the AFL and was nearly made captain before it was given to McDonald....Miller probably wont play a senior game for us but will provide great on-field leadership for our young guys at coburg!
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But being a rookie, as opposed to just signing with coburg, if circumstances dictate, he can play for Richmond.
I'm pretty sure the club has put more thought into this, and other possible trades, than most of the people commenting on them
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Ramps its only rubbish recruiting to you mate! no disprespect but Houli and Grigg are 22 years old and have had slow starts to thier careers for numerous reasons, they will be at thier peak when the rest of our side is aswell in 3 -4 years.
Sherman is the one i want the most i think he fits the bill for what we desperatly lack to perfection and want him more than anyone!
Miller is a fantastic idea! His leadership is highly ranked around the AFL and was nearly made captain before it was given to McDonald....Miller probably wont play a senior game for us but will provide great on-field leadership for our young guys at coburg!
Slow starts to their careers lol .... maybe the reason is that they werent good enough to have made better starts? And Miller lol ... at least its a mature age rookie, anyone remember Graham and Kingsley- they were bought to RFC to provide leadership as well.
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Ramps, Grigg had ankle injuries over the past 18 months and by all reports is finally over them, and Houli was left out of the side for reasons only known to the Essendon match committee despite dominating at VFL level, he had the Essendon players asking questions why he wasnt being played and they were shrugged off every time, I know this because i played footy with Jay Neagle and the players all wanted Houli in the side.
As for Graham and kingsley Wallace stated he drafted them as players to allow the draftees to develope at Coburg, they were brought in to play at AFL level, Miller is being brought in to provide leadership and guidence to our players at VFL level and the reason he's being mature aged rookied is because if we hit poo creek and loose Griff or Jack long term then he can fill a hole without the club having to change its structures like they did playing McGuane and Thursfield forward at times!
need to look at the big picture not just the short term!
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Depends how you see the big picture, i see as we trade out the likes of tambling, thursfield, mcguane or rance etc ... and draft more kids like Heppell, Mitchell and Lamb etc who will be good players for a long time going forward.
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I hope if Griggs, Sherman, Houli or Miller do end up with us, you at least give them at least a couple of months before you start getting stuck into them and everyone else.
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Your spot on mate, they will be great players going forward but over the next 2 years they will have little impact except for maybe a Heppell if we can snare him.
I dont see the issue of getting these players to the club while we're already losing a couple players so we will upgrade possibly our 2nd and 3rd round picks and maybe even add an extra pick aswell!
If Grigg and Houli dont come on in the 3 years we're reportedly offering them, then we havnt really lost out if we have to delist them!
Thats the way i see it!
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Depends how you see the big picture, i see as we trade out the likes of tambling, thursfield, mcguane or rance etc ... and draft more kids like Heppell, Mitchell and Lamb etc who will be good players for a long time going forward.
So you trust the club to make the right decisions in regards to picks and kids, but not trades involving mature bodies?
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What's that about giving recruits a go.
WTF and hell no, they have got one game max to be in our best 10 otherwise the poo hits the fan
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I think people need to take into account the situation we find ourselves in given the compromised draft. The talent pool begins to dilute much quicker this year bcause of the draft concessions of the GC both before the draft with the 17 year old talent and then with 9 picks in the first 20. On top of this, when it comes to the Rookie draft GC has the first 5 picks. What this all means is that their will be far less potential/project players left over for the Rookie Draft meaning by the time you get to your 4th pick etc you might as well fill a hole in the list which for us is obviously leadership.
I think you'll find it's GWS with the first 5 rookie picks, not GC Suns
my concern is now about the number of rejects coming to Richmond
Houli
Grigg maybe
Sherman
Miller
The only reject on that list is Miller, the rest are all wanting to be kept by their clubs
If the only reject we chase is only getting a mature age rookie spot with the intention that he's there in case our young kpps get long term injuries then it not the end of the world
I'm not particularly happy about getting Miller, but hardly something worth jumping in front of a bus over either
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Why do we need insurance for? To stop us dropping from 15th from 16th ??? :lol. We're going to finish bottom 4 again anyway so if we get injuries then we finish bottom, suck it up and end up with a extra priority pick in another compromise draft where decent picks a golden. You know as we should have done the last two years to accelerate our rebuild. Bringing in a number of recycled fringe players from other clubs is only a pathway to another ninth :scream.
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No no no no no. :banghead
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Depends how you see the big picture, i see as we trade out the likes of tambling, thursfield, mcguane or rance etc ... and draft more kids like Heppell, Mitchell and Lamb etc who will be good players for a long time going forward.
So you trust the club to make the right decisions in regards to picks and kids, but not trades involving mature bodies?
I believe we are better of trading out the likes of Thursfield, Tambling et al and using those picks on Kids. Thats it in a nutshell.
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I believe we are better of trading out the likes of Thursfield, Tambling et al and using those picks on Kids. Thats it in a nutshell.
Well said Ramps. The top 30 of this draft look to be decent kids as well.
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Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
Melbourne decided to go with youth ;)
so have we mad one.so have we. if you cant see the logic behind us getting him you never will. the need for a mature big bodied key forward since richo retired has been great.we went with polak but should have gone with bradshaw. the club in wanting to keep richo going another yr, then mature rooikeing polak, have at least recognised the need for that mature body. they have continued to recognise that need by mature rookieing miller. the club in this instance are correct.
simply put it will allow our young kpfs to develop at their own pace and at coburg if need be.the lack of experienced tall forwards on the list is gaping we only have a still immature riewoldt.
jack is the only established tall forward on the list hes been double and triple teamed by opposition he needs a hand.
if say post plays chb we have griffiths who has just had double shoulder surgery and we really need to nurse him over the next couple of seasons. astbury sheesh hes had one season and is prefered down back the post man well he needs time. what happens if jack gets hurt or post as well.
unlike some i think miller as a mature rookie will play most games i dont rate him as a footballer and he would not be my choice but there is a need for experienced big body talls on the list. hes 27 and he has in him the couple of seasons we need while our kids develop.
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Depends how you see the big picture, i see as we trade out the likes of tambling, thursfield, mcguane or rance etc ... and draft more kids like Heppell, Mitchell and Lamb etc who will be good players for a long time going forward.
So you trust the club to make the right decisions in regards to picks and kids, but not trades involving mature bodies?
I believe we are better of trading out the likes of Thursfield, Tambling et al and using those picks on Kids. Thats it in a nutshell.
we should still be doing exactly that ramps. but there is absolutely nothing to stop us from tading for players as well.
if tambling and thursfield were to go, at a guess we should end up with picks that go something like 6, 14 -26, 29, 46, theres no reason why we cant use these picks in the nd. take houli in the psd trade for grigg with say thursfield perhaps we can get a latish carlton pick as well. take miller in the rookie draft and still utilise some late picks in the nd.
we should not ignore trades the key is we must utilise and prioritise the nd as well. we have not done this in the past. in the past when trading we have actually traded out of the draft.
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I don't think people understand the state of this years draft. It is serverly compromised to the point that late Rookie picks are not speculative this year but more-so meaningless. Bringing in a kid who is never going to make it because in any other draft he would be the 250th player is a waste of time.
Development and education of our quality youngsters is the key to our future and to achieve that we need good coaches and good leaders. Cousins worth over the last two years has been less about his onfield performance but more about the leadership and off-field direction he provided. Now while I would never place Miller in the same category as Cousins I would suggest the role Cousins played could in part in be filled by Miller.
Bringing in a player like Miller is not about the present, it's about the future. We need to protect our young KPP players from long term injuries. We also don't want to have to play these developing youngsters out of position. They should be spending as much time in there future positions as possible. While we may not be striving to play in the GF next year we should be about attempting to keep our structures and game plan in place as much as possible through the year. Whole sale changes from week to week is unproductive long term so having a utility could allow us to retain our structures if one of our structural players goes down through injury.
Now while he may not have been my choice, given the circumstances and role he will play, I can see the reasons.
Lets not make Miller our next McMahon whipping-boy before he has even played his first game. :pray
Stripes
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I dont know how you see our list claw but if we can score say 4 picks inside 30 which is a possibility we could certainly fix afew holes in our list with quality kids. forget pick 6 - pick 6 must be a success but the real possibilities lie after pick 6. I like Mitchell as a CHF type- could be available anywhere between 15 and 20. I also like the likes of Lamb and even a Caddy. Being able to secure a 2 or 3 of these types will help us get to where we wanna go IMHO and we can only do that with picks.
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Why do we need insurance for? To stop us dropping from 15th from 16th ??? :lol. We're going to finish bottom 4 again anyway so if we get injuries then we finish bottom, suck it up and end up with a extra priority pick in another compromise draft where decent picks a golden. You know as we should have done the last two years to accelerate our rebuild. Bringing in a number of recycled fringe players from other clubs is only a pathway to another ninth :scream.
stop trying to forecast the future by reading past chapters MT, honestly mate you're better than that simple minded approach. a journey is one step at a time...ignoring the dearth of forward options at Punt Rd will see us go backwards
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I dont know how you see our list claw but if we can score say 4 picks inside 30 which is a possibility we could certainly fix afew holes in our list with quality kids. forget pick 6 - pick 6 must be a success but the real possibilities lie after pick 6. I like Mitchell as a CHF type- could be available anywhere between 15 and 20. I also like the likes of Lamb and even a Caddy. Being able to secure a 2 or 3 of these types will help us get to where we wanna go IMHO and we can only do that with picks.
i see our list in need of upgrades everywhere. we need to prioritise and utilise the nd especially with early to mid picks. but i will say again there is no reason why we should not be trading either. to build we must utilise all areas open to us.
those players you mention are all top 30 selections. listen carefully no one is talking about trading out of top 30 picks well i hope they arent. in fact by trading tambling we are looking at trading into one. grigg houli and miller who is a rookie pick wont cost a top 40 pick yet alone top 30. im not sure we would get top 30 for thursfield more likely a third rounder or we go player for player. the simple fact is houli can and most likely will be taken psd if not him then grigg. one of them will probably be taken with a third rounder or later they are uncontracted.
for what its worth caddy will go top 10. to me our pick 6 will be between caddy gaff and atley possibly heppell. me i lean towards atley. kids like hallahan jacobs gilbee are players i would really like to get my hands on but they will go between 11 and 20 imo.
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Why do we need insurance for? To stop us dropping from 15th from 16th ??? :lol. We're going to finish bottom 4 again anyway so if we get injuries then we finish bottom, suck it up and end up with a extra priority pick in another compromise draft where decent picks a golden. You know as we should have done the last two years to accelerate our rebuild. Bringing in a number of recycled fringe players from other clubs is only a pathway to another ninth :scream.
Wouldn't think this is your best or most insightful post MT. I posted a reason for your question in an earlier post:
"We might be rebuilding and developing but we learned how to fight out games and win some last year, and those critical lessons will fade and diminish if we aren't competitive going forward. We can't keep losing and getting smashed in the sole pursuit of putting games into kids - our development to success must be rounded by effort and results."
Not sure if I missed the intent of your post or you are now just holding on to a singular and suffocating point of view.
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Smokey Brad Miller is a 27 yo key position player who has had 10 years to hold down a place in a senior AFL side that has itself spent most of the last 5 years at the foot of the ladder.
How on earth that adds depth to our list? Comparing Ben Cousins to Brad Miller is ridiculous.
I like the logic but do not agree with the proposed solution.
I also see too many occasions where Richmond have turned to other AFL clubs to recruit - we do not have a good track record.
Like it or not, our club has been a shambles for a long time and building from the ground up avoids short cuts.
Brad Miller is a short cut and so it Griggs and Houli (by the way, Houli is too close to Houlihan!).
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Why do we need insurance for? To stop us dropping from 15th from 16th ??? :lol. We're going to finish bottom 4 again anyway so if we get injuries then we finish bottom, suck it up and end up with a extra priority pick in another compromise draft where decent picks a golden. You know as we should have done the last two years to accelerate our rebuild. Bringing in a number of recycled fringe players from other clubs is only a pathway to another ninth :scream.
Wouldn't think this is your best or most insightful post MT. I posted a reason for your question in an earlier post:
"We might be rebuilding and developing but we learned how to fight out games and win some last year, and those critical lessons will fade and diminish if we aren't competitive going forward. We can't keep losing and getting smashed in the sole pursuit of putting games into kids - our development to success must be rounded by effort and results."
Not sure if I missed the intent of your post or you are now just holding on to a singular and suffocating point of view.
Post of the month, so far
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Brad Miller is a must if we can get him
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brad miller may have had a chequered past , but I pose this, How often did he share a forward line with a Coleman medalist :lol...this move could just be a stroke of genius
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Brad Miller is a must if we can get him
Jack, i 100% agree.
:thumbsup
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brad miller may have had a chequered past , but I pose this, How often did he share a forward line with a Coleman medalist :lol...this move could just be a stroke of genius
Thank you
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Think Miller has a lot to offer.
Kicked 10 in an VFL game this year.
Way too many experts on this forum, you should try getting a job at a club ;)
Agree.
He's not going to play too much you'd think. If Riewoldt went down with a big injury, we have no-one (with experience) as back-up. That's where Miller would come in.
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tell you all something though, rather play Miller than a Nahas or Hislop
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so many experts here on this forum im surprised u all arnt coaches at afl by now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
brad miller is a giant lump of drift wood floating with us up poo creek
Wrong, talented footballer with great hands who reads the game extremely well.
Dont know the story behind the scenes with Melb in 2010, something not right there though
lmao hes a spud.
no talent, just a big bloke who offers a target, Ben Holland mkII
waste of time
He is hardly big.- would be jack riewoldt size
he isnt a waste of time and he aint a spud
he moves and turns like the titanic.
melbourne have no fwd line and they are getting rid of him, think about it ::)
yeah hes no spud
Melbourne have Jurrah and Watts and will prlly draft a fey forward in Darling or Lynch which is a very good young forward line. :-[
We're not picking him with our pick #6, we'll get him with our last rookie pick.
We'll pick another young gun at 6.
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Must attend my first function is Pia is going to be there ;D
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Why do we need insurance for? To stop us dropping from 15th from 16th ??? :lol. We're going to finish bottom 4 again anyway so if we get injuries then we finish bottom, suck it up and end up with a extra priority pick in another compromise draft where decent picks a golden. You know as we should have done the last two years to accelerate our rebuild. Bringing in a number of recycled fringe players from other clubs is only a pathway to another ninth :scream.
stop trying to forecast the future by reading past chapters MT, honestly mate you're better than that simple minded approach. a journey is one step at a time...ignoring the dearth of forward options at Punt Rd will see us go backwards
List building is about planning for the future though bj. Recruiters are watching potential draftees from at least their U16 days and list managers together with the recruiters need to access the potential strength and depth of the next 2-3 drafts and what will be available in terms of the quality and quantity of mids, KPPs, rucks. Last year was a mids draft with all but John Butcher and Daniel Talia taken in the first round of the draft. We only got Griffiths at 19 because there were concerns about his injured shoulder and he slipped out of the first round. No one said to ignore our dearth of forward options. Quite the contrary. In fact we still lack the necessary quality and depth in most areas on the ground. That's what the draft is for. When in full rebuild mode you accrue as many early picks as possible to add more and more talent and class to our list including key forwards. Maybe you could argue a 22-24 y.o. mature rookie may be worth bringing in if he could develop into an AFL player and fill a need. Not as a temporary "back-up" though which is a waste of time IMO. Melbourne sure thought so with Miller so he played in VFL most of this year. Miller won't solve our dearth of forwards as he'll just be a 27 y.o. temporary back-up. He's only ever kicked more than 15 goals in a season twice; the highest being 26. He's hardly going to replace Jack's output of 78 goals if Jack and Griffiths got injured which is the reasoning for his recruitment as a mature rookie. Add to that in the six games he played this year Melbourne lost 4 of them and most of those were by 40-60 points so he didn't stop the Dees losing badly either. We might as well try Post or Vickery up forward if all we want is a tall target who kicks a goal a game on average. Sorry you can call my opinion "simple minded" all you like but it won't change my opinion that Miller is not needed at Punt Rd.
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Why do we need insurance for? To stop us dropping from 15th from 16th ??? :lol. We're going to finish bottom 4 again anyway so if we get injuries then we finish bottom, suck it up and end up with a extra priority pick in another compromise draft where decent picks a golden. You know as we should have done the last two years to accelerate our rebuild. Bringing in a number of recycled fringe players from other clubs is only a pathway to another ninth :scream.
Wouldn't think this is your best or most insightful post MT. I posted a reason for your question in an earlier post:
"We might be rebuilding and developing but we learned how to fight out games and win some last year, and those critical lessons will fade and diminish if we aren't competitive going forward. We can't keep losing and getting smashed in the sole pursuit of putting games into kids - our development to success must be rounded by effort and results."
Not sure if I missed the intent of your post or you are now just holding on to a singular and suffocating point of view.
Sorry I missed your earlier post smokey but having said that as I just posted in replying to bj the Dees lost 4 of the 6 games Miller played in by 40-60 points. Add to that he played 52 games b/w 2007-9 when the Dees won just 12 from 66. So the argument that we need him to stop continually losing after losing doesn't make sense to me. One player (unless they're of Judd's class which Miller sure hell isn't) doesn't save 7 goals say to turn a flogging into a competitive loss. Hawthorn btw lost 12 from 13 games in the middle of 2006 and most of those badly. 14 months late they were playing finals. Losing doesn't kill ya if internally everyone understands where the list is at. Development and getting games into our youngsters is what is important right now instead of results and scoreboard. We are still miles away and IMO Miller won't change that injuries or no injuries.
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Mature players that are discards just mean 9th - 30 years of pain is the proof of the pudding
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Sorry I missed your earlier post smokey but having said that as I just posted in replying to bj the Dees lost 4 of the 6 games Miller played in by 40-60 points. Add to that he played 52 games b/w 2007-9 when the Dees won just 12 from 66. So the argument that we need him to stop continually losing after losing doesn't make sense to me. One player (unless they're of Judd's class which Miller sure hell isn't) doesn't save 7 goals say to turn a flogging into a competitive loss. Hawthorn btw lost 12 from 13 games in the middle of 2006 and most of those badly. 14 months late they were playing finals. Losing doesn't kill ya if internally everyone understands where the list is at. Development and getting games into our youngsters is what is important right now instead of results and scoreboard. We are still miles away and IMO Miller won't change that injuries or no injuries.
Fair points MT but I don't think Miller is being chased for his senior on-field potential, rather his skills and experience at the lower tier. He is an insurance policy if crap goes down and he will be capable of helping stem the tide if it turns against us but I'm not considering him at all as a senior recruit - just someone who can help keep the natives at bay until the cavalry arrive. And to our young side who learned strong lessons this season about input, output and attitude in general, I think that can potentially be very important. Hopefully the situation never arises but it won't hurt to have a couple of wheel chocks available while we climb that steep hill. No point rolling all the way to the bottom again.
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yeah he is a senior rookie who only comes in for injured players, ready made experienced player with good credentials to fill in for injury and to mentor developing forwards....hardly an issue.
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I think this will be great
Look at how many pages this topic has got already.....
I love this time of year :thumbsup :clapping ;D :jump
I've got no issue with a role focused around a spot at Coburg. It's ok to say "focus on youth" but like real life, youth still needs to learn and they don't learn by growing alone - mentoring and 'do as I do' guidance is still paramount to their successful transition to adulthood (senior player). There's more to building and developing our list than just chocking it up with youth - the value of Ben Cousins has been well accepted on here - and even though Miller is not a player in the same class, if they (the club) are looking to him in a coaching-type role then they obviously rate his input. Remember, this is the same Brad Miller that knocked back a farewell game with Melbourne seniors because he didn't want to take the spot of one of the kids so I'm happy to trust the judgment of the club that he will be used in a suitable role. Cameron's words give me heart - "He fully understands the role we have planned for him at Richmond" - that he is not being sought as a shortcut. As Danog said, insurance if we have a horror run with injuries but a role focused at Coburg accelerating the development of the kids is fine by me.
Good post Smokey.
So he takes up our list pookie spot, costs us nothing, plays most likely every bllody game at Coburg and helps develop the cubs - who cares.
The thing that makes me not fussed about it one way or another is the fact this bloke gave up a chance at a farewell game ofr Melb to do the right thing by the CLub he has spent the most of 2010 playing for (in this case Casey). He seems to be very "team focussed" and with a young group like ours we need that
:gotigers
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alot of interesting posts.
Also of interest is what the pies have added to there list from other clubs, to help support there younger group.
All clubs do it. we havent been successful in this area in the past as all we want to give up as trade is crap.
Collingwood have added Ball, Jolley, Brown, Dawes , Wood, Medhurst to there overall list for a reason
We CANNOT rely on youth alone and to develop within.
The Saints have also added the following to get them to Grand Finals.
Dawson, King,Ray, Peake,Dempster,Schneider, Gardinier etc.
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there is a lot of upside in taking miller
big body, can play fwd and back, he isn't that old
i remember yrs ago when the rumours started that we were after leigh brown
mt was so dead against him, cos he was a "hack" yet brown has been a gun at the pies
i say if hardwick sees a role for miller in the team, i trust his judgement
thats why they do what they do, and we r here , some posting dribble, some just become cut and past experts
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Why do we need insurance for? To stop us dropping from 15th from 16th ??? :lol. We're going to finish bottom 4 again anyway so if we get injuries then we finish bottom, suck it up and end up with a extra priority pick in another compromise draft where decent picks a golden. You know as we should have done the last two years to accelerate our rebuild. Bringing in a number of recycled fringe players from other clubs is only a pathway to another ninth :scream.
stop trying to forecast the future by reading past chapters MT, honestly mate you're better than that simple minded approach. a journey is one step at a time...ignoring the dearth of forward options at Punt Rd will see us go backwards
List building is about planning for the future though bj. Recruiters are watching potential draftees from at least their U16 days and list managers together with the recruiters need to access the potential strength and depth of the next 2-3 drafts and what will be available in terms of the quality and quantity of mids, KPPs, rucks. Last year was a mids draft with all but John Butcher and Daniel Talia taken in the first round of the draft. We only got Griffiths at 19 because there were concerns about his injured shoulder and he slipped out of the first round. No one said to ignore our dearth of forward options. Quite the contrary. In fact we still lack the necessary quality and depth in most areas on the ground. That's what the draft is for. When in full rebuild mode you accrue as many early picks as possible to add more and more talent and class to our list including key forwards. Maybe you could argue a 22-24 y.o. mature rookie may be worth bringing in if he could develop into an AFL player and fill a need. Not as a temporary "back-up" though which is a waste of time IMO. Melbourne sure thought so with Miller so he played in VFL most of this year. Miller won't solve our dearth of forwards as he'll just be a 27 y.o. temporary back-up. He's only ever kicked more than 15 goals in a season twice; the highest being 26. He's hardly going to replace Jack's output of 78 goals if Jack and Griffiths got injured which is the reasoning for his recruitment as a mature rookie. Add to that in the six games he played this year Melbourne lost 4 of them and most of those were by 40-60 points so he didn't stop the Dees losing badly either. We might as well try Post or Vickery up forward if all we want is a tall target who kicks a goal a game on average. Sorry you can call my opinion "simple minded" all you like but it won't change my opinion that Miller is not needed at Punt Rd.
you are failing to see that our forward line needs strength added if we are to make progress in 2011. Look at how JR performed in the last month of the season as a window to 2011 if we fail to address this problem. miller was a spare parts man at melbourne, but he showed he can take a grab, avg 6 or so a game...we need to add someone in the forward line that can stand tall whilst defenders are marauding JR whilst at the same time allowing our young KPP to develop at their own pace. Heres hoping vick and Post can earn a game as a KP in their own right...sheesh they 'd need to improve some
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All clubs do it. we havent been successful in this area in the past as all we want to give up as trade is crap.
I agree with you here Jack :o but I think the other thing you've forgotten to mention is the fact that when we have bought in recycled players they haven't been good ones to start with when you measure them against what it cost us. I think case in point is Jordie McMahon, what we got (Jordie) for what we gave up (pick 19) was a terrible deal for the Club.
I find it staggering that people to this day bring up the Tigers selecting Mark Graham in 2005 as being a bad decision by the club. It was a good decision, it costs us late draft pick (in the 50's IIRC) he helped in developing the younger players and allowed some blokes time to develop at VFL level rather havng them thrown in the deep end when they weren't ready. Perhaps if we as club under previous regimes had done this with a few more younger players over the years we'd have better developed young blokes than we do now
That's why I view the possible Sherman deal as a good one if and the key here is IF - we get a Sherman for our 2nd round pick only IF we secure a pick (say somewhere between 18-25) before the pick we would have to give up for him (pick 29)
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Hardwick has been telling about needing big bodies on the list to support the youth.
If we get miller in a pure coburg only role it will not be too bad.
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people should realise one thing and if im wrong i stand corrected.
is it or is it not fact that all clubs are entitled to two MATURE ROOKIE PICKS. if we dont use them on mature types we dont get to use them at all.
can any one tell me if we are very young very inexperienced and very undersized when it comes to key forwards.
anyone with half a brain can see where im leading while miller may not be everyones cup of tea a miller type is needed in the short term.
can i ask why was it okay to mature rookie polak last yr and not miller this yr.
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Good post claw. Don't have an issue with this one.
He'll come at much less cost than Bradshaw too. ;)
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Good post claw. Don't have an issue with this one.
He'll come at much less cost than Bradshaw too. ;)
agree
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people should realise one thing and if im wrong i stand corrected.
is it or is it not fact that all clubs are entitled to two MATURE ROOKIE PICKS. if we dont use them on mature types we dont get to use them at all.
No.
There are 8 spots on the rookie list.* Maximum 2 of the 8 spots can be filled by someone 23yo or older.
All 8 spots can be used for eligible rookie players (18yo to 22yo).
*7 spots if there is 1 eligible veteran, 6 spots if 2 eligible veterans (max 2 - we have none)
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Depends how you see the big picture, i see as we trade out the likes of tambling, thursfield, mcguane or rance etc ... and draft more kids like Heppell, Mitchell and Lamb etc who will be good players for a long time going forward.
So you trust the club to make the right decisions in regards to picks and kids, but not trades involving mature bodies?
I believe we are better of trading out the likes of Thursfield, Tambling et al and using those picks on Kids. Thats it in a nutshell.
I second that Ramps and MT!
Why doesn't Melbourne delist Miller and tell him to play at Casey in a "Mentoring Role"?
Why don't we just ask him to be a forward coach that just plays at Coburg? At least it "FREES UP" a place for a young cub to get a chance.
Why do we have to Rookie him and play "X" amount? Insurance?
Try someone else! Like Westoff or Westhoff! At least he can get an opportunity! So what if he is very raw! Here is his chance!
I have no problem with Houli, but Grigg? He can't kick? Or am I getting him and Bower mixed up?
Sherman looks like he is a Bulldog.
I would take Adelaide's compersation pick and use it in the Draft.
Trade Thursfield to Fremantle for any pick, keep our picks and go nuts on young cubs!
However ...
Miller, Hislop as Rookie listed players?
Miller will only get one year? What's the point? If you are going to have him around, make it two-three years at least.
Hislop ... Why bother with him?
What will happen to Gilligan? He would have to delisted, with Hicks, Westhoff will retain.
I would not say this is a "Shortcut", I just see this, with Hislop, as a waste of money and space!
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Good post claw. Don't have an issue with this one.
He'll come at much less cost than Bradshaw too. ;)
less cost
much less abilty
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u guys are saying he will be an coburg only player? highly doubt that when Griff isnt going to play first couple of games cause he is badly injured in th shoulders and is havin major construction work on them MEEENs he will never be a great player he will be good but not Great.
We need another Foward with Jr8 like a buddy to a Roughhead type deal :)
I hope he proves me wrong tho.. :pray
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I find it staggering that people to this day bring up the Tigers selecting Mark Graham in 2005 as being a bad decision by the club. It was a good decision, it costs us late draft pick (in the 50's IIRC) he helped in developing the younger players and allowed some blokes time to develop at VFL level rather havng them thrown in the deep end when they weren't ready. Perhaps if we as club under previous regimes had done this with a few more younger players over the years we'd have better developed young blokes than we do now
I would say people argue that on two fronts WP:
1) Graham lasted only one year as a back-up (2005) so he wasn't around when AK retired and Gas retired/was dumped in 2007. McGuane, Thursty and Moore were thrown in the deep end by sheer necessity anyway starting with that Geelong nightmare game at the Dome.
2) Graham was picked up late in 2004 draft but when you look at the PSD and especially the rookie draft that year there were still some decent (then young) footballers to be found which could have been drafted instead that had a decade of footy in front of them:
PSD
3. Eddie Betts (Carl) ...... We selected Trent Knobel at pick 1.
Rookie Draft:
7. Josh Gibson (North/Haw)
16. Danyle Pearce (Port)
18. Clinton Young (Haw)
19. Dale Morris (WB)
20. Harry O'Brien (Coll)
26. Matthew Warnock (Melb)
38. Scott McMahon (North)
39. Ryan Crowley (Freo)
42. Heath Grundy (Syd)
60. Josh Drummond (Bris)
Nb. that year due to poor finances we only used one rookie pick (1. Will Thursfield).
So while there was some logic to having Graham as a back-up/fill-in at the time, it really was a short-term decision made at the expense of recruiting for long-term when we were meant to be in full rebuild mode.
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I have no problem with us picking Graham with our last pick in 2004
Had the rest of our draft been any good we wouldn't be discussing it at all
Problem was, after Pick 5-7 the 2004 draft was a stinker
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Depends how you see the big picture, i see as we trade out the likes of tambling, thursfield, mcguane or rance etc ... and draft more kids like Heppell, Mitchell and Lamb etc who will be good players for a long time going forward.
So you trust the club to make the right decisions in regards to picks and kids, but not trades involving mature bodies?
I believe we are better of trading out the likes of Thursfield, Tambling et al and using those picks on Kids. Thats it in a nutshell.
I second that Ramps and MT!
Why doesn't Melbourne delist Miller and tell him to play at Casey in a "Mentoring Role"?
Why don't we just ask him to be a forward coach that just plays at Coburg? At least it "FREES UP" a place for a young cub to get a chance.
Why do we have to Rookie him and play "X" amount? Insurance?
That's it in a nutshell for me as well Torch.... all those advocating a mentor role, just invest the money into something we desperately need - an extra few bleating development coaches and be done with it! Melbournes fwd line is still very much developing why do they feel they don't need him to assist the very raw J.Watts and co? hmmmm......IMO young players don't learn much from onfield tutelege from Miller type players, champions like cuz is a different story.
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Terrible & stupid decision if true :banghead
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Good post claw. Don't have an issue with this one.
He'll come at much less cost than Bradshaw too. ;)
bradshaw is quality you should never look a gift horse in the mouth when it comes so cheap.
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Good post claw. Don't have an issue with this one.
He'll come at much less cost than Bradshaw too. ;)
bradshaw is quality you should never look a gift horse in the mouth when it comes so cheap.
Only problem would have been if Riewoldt had of gotten injured, he'd have been sitting on the sidelines with Bradshaw for most of the season.
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I have no problem with us picking Graham with our last pick in 2004
Had the rest of our draft been any good we wouldn't be discussing it at all
Problem was, after Pick 5-7 the 2004 draft was a stinker
i have enormous problems with it as far as list management goes the graham and miller situations are different if people take a good look at it.
i posted this over at bf i might as well say it again.
without miller we have jack at 22 hes the oldest kpf we have and the sole one who is established. by any standard we need some mature players especially talls.
prior to the 05 draft and taking graham who was 32 mind we had 28yo gaspar, 24yo hall, 29yo a kellaway, we had 22 yr old weller taken in the psd and 18yo archibald taken very late and moore who at the time was not considered a kp.
we had no need for a 32 yr old graham what we had need of was a couple of promising big bodied kpds instead we got graham. it was a nonsense and typical of miller/wallace.
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there is nothing wrong with this decision
miller still isnt too old, big body, can play fwd and back
but most of all is a team man
hey mt remember the yrs when u kept bagging rfc due to the rumours that we were after Leigh Brown
well werent the pies effheads for getting that hack mt ??????
i guess thats y they do what they do , i do what i do, u some just perfect their cut and paste techniques
miiller would be great at that price full stop
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bradshaw is quality you should never look a gift horse in the mouth when it comes so cheap.
He's not cheap.
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Manager Paul Connors says he's spoken to Richmond re Brad Miller continuing his career at Punt Road, unlikely to be a trade tho
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Manager Paul Connors says he's spoken to Richmond re Brad Miller continuing his career at Punt Road, unlikely to be a trade tho
that would be the icing on the cake if we actually traded for him.
unlikely indeed :banghead
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there is nothing wrong with this decision
miller still isnt too old, big body, can play fwd and back
but most of all is a team man
hey mt remember the yrs when u kept bagging rfc due to the rumours that we were after Leigh Brown
well werent the pies effheads for getting that hack mt ??????
i guess thats y they do what they do , i do what i do, u some just perfect their cut and paste techniques
miiller would be great at that price full stop
Mark Seaby and Mark Blake were also 2nd ruck premiership players. They must be guns as well that Richmond should have chased :wallywink. Just because you've squeezed into the final 22 and ended up with the medal around your neck doesn't make you a top AFL footballer. All it means you played in the best team. Darren Jolly who is a top classruckman and All-Australian dominated as the Pies' ruckman and Cloke and Dawes were the Pies two first choice key forwards along with their plethora of midsized forwards. Brown made his dreams come true so good on him but he was just the final piece in the puzzle at best. Lucky that the Saints had lost their two most experienced ruckmen to injury for the GF replay. Brown vs Kosi in the ruck was hardly Jolly vs Cox in 2005. Sheesh Brown ran into the back of Kosi 4 times as they both didn't know what they were doing :lol. In any case the Pies had already rebuilt their list and played finals 3 years in a row before they picked Brown up. If Richmond had got him everyone here would be bagging the club because he would've made no difference to us as we are rebuilding.
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Sorry I missed your earlier post smokey but having said that as I just posted in replying to bj the Dees lost 4 of the 6 games Miller played in by 40-60 points. Add to that he played 52 games b/w 2007-9 when the Dees won just 12 from 66. So the argument that we need him to stop continually losing after losing doesn't make sense to me. One player (unless they're of Judd's class which Miller sure hell isn't) doesn't save 7 goals say to turn a flogging into a competitive loss. Hawthorn btw lost 12 from 13 games in the middle of 2006 and most of those badly. 14 months late they were playing finals. Losing doesn't kill ya if internally everyone understands where the list is at. Development and getting games into our youngsters is what is important right now instead of results and scoreboard. We are still miles away and IMO Miller won't change that injuries or no injuries.
Fair points MT but I don't think Miller is being chased for his senior on-field potential, rather his skills and experience at the lower tier. He is an insurance policy if crap goes down and he will be capable of helping stem the tide if it turns against us but I'm not considering him at all as a senior recruit - just someone who can help keep the natives at bay until the cavalry arrive. And to our young side who learned strong lessons this season about input, output and attitude in general, I think that can potentially be very important. Hopefully the situation never arises but it won't hurt to have a couple of wheel chocks available while we climb that steep hill. No point rolling all the way to the bottom again.
I don't have a problem with us getting Miller as a future potential coach playing at Coburg as we've done that before with Tim Clarke. IMO if we want Miller for that role than employ him as that. Players should only be on our playing list if they are part of our playing future. If Griffiths isn't right for round 1 due to his shoulder(s) then Miller will play and then he is then playing ahead of another young tall which I'm against.
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From the RFC site....
Cameron did not address the possibility of former Melbourne forward Brad Miller joining the Tigers as a mature-aged rookie except to say there had been discussions.
Earlier, Miller denied he had already agreed to join the Tigers but confirmed their interest in his services.
"I have spoken with both Damien [Hardwick] and Craig Cameron and the role they have in mind is a little different and would involve being on the mature aged rookie list," Miller said on Twitter.
"Will know more in the coming days/weeks."
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/104038/default.aspx
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Brad you might want to take what you can get while you can still get it.
Otherwise, you may end up as Pias's frock monkey
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Brad you might want to take what you can get while you can still get it.
Otherwise, you may end up as Pias's frock monkey
I could think of far worse jobs
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Brad you might want to take what you can get while you can still get it.
Otherwise, you may end up as Pias's frock monkey
I could think of far worse jobs
mmmm, good point.
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i'd rather cleve steamer than miller
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i'd rather cleve steamer than miller
I'd rather you than both of them...and you're poo. :thumbsup :rollin
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i'd rather cleve steamer than miller
I'd rather you than both of them...and you're poo. :thumbsup :rollin
very poo
high centre of gravity
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I saw some chatter on the Gold Coast thread that they were looking at picking up the Cleve steamer, no poo, apparently he is tearing it up atm.
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I saw some chatter on the Gold Coast thread that they were looking at picking up the Cleve steamer, no poo, apparently he is tearing it up atm.
he kicked over 100 for the season
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They all come good after they leave us lol bastards...
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Tigers throw Miller lifeline
* Al Paton
* From: Herald Sun
* October 12, 2010 12:10PM
FORMER Demon Brad Miller is weighing up an offer to revive his career as an enforcer in the Richmond forward line.
The Tigers have approached Miller about nominating for December's rookie draft.
The 27-year-old, delisted by the Demons last month, could add experience to a young Tiger forward line and physical support for Coleman medalist Jack Riewoldt.
Richmond football manager Craig Cameron confirmed this morning Miller was on the club's radar.
"We've spoken to Brad," he told SEN.
"We've got to go through the right processes - that draft is in December - but one of things we looked at was the age of our tall forwards is very young.
"We are very reliant on Jack Riewoldt at the moment, we've got Ben Griffiths who's coming off two shoulder operations, we've also got Jayden Post and Tyrone Vickery - all those guys are 22 years of age or under.
"Jack Riewoldt wears a lot of the load for us, if he happens to get injured and Ben Griffiths' shoulders aren't quite right for that season, we're a little bit thin in that area of the ground.
"We spoke to Brad about the fact he's only 27 years of age, he can play forward, he's an outstanding character so he would add leadership to our whole football club plus he's got ambitions beyond football in terms of coaching.
"So we have spoken to him about a number of those things and how we may be able to develop him in a number of areas, and see if that sat well with him. He's away at the moment and he's considering those options."
Miller returned from holidays yesterday and said on Twitter he was weighing up the offer.
"I have spoken with both Damien (Hardwick) and Craig Cameron and the role they have in mind is a little different and would involve being on the mature-age rookie list. Will know more in the coming days/weeks," he said.
Miller played just six games for the Demons this year, kicking 10 goals, but won the Casey Scorpions best-and-fairest.
Cameron said the Tigers had several weeks to make a decision on whether to pick up disgruntled Bomber Bachar Houli in the national or pre-season draft.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/tigers-throw-miller-lifeline/story-e6frf9jf-1225937599112
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It is understood that Jack Riewoldt is keen to point out his home town on Pia Miller, and the physical support she would be able to offer the Coleman medalist is on everyone's radar. Robin Nahas has put himself forward as props manager and camera tripod.
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Holy freakin shnitzels! I just revisited some footage of Pia on youtube.
She is a glamor! :-*
'...It is also understood that Jordan McMahon has offered up his wig as a potential merkin for Pia during the colder months of winter.'
Let's get Miller (Pia) to tigerland! :bow
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Holy freakin shnitzels! I just revisited some footage of Pia on youtube.
She is a glamor! :-*
'...It is also understood that Jordan McMahon has offered up his wig as a potential merkin for Pia during the colder months of winter.'
He could give up that excuse for a moustache as a landing strip too
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Richmond set on Brad Miller
* Jon Ralph
* From: Herald Sun
* October 27, 2010 10:19PM
BRAD Miller's delisting by Melbourne will pave the way for Richmond to rookie-list him as a back-up for Coleman Medal winner Jack Riewoldt.
The 27-year-old has now warmed to the idea of continuing his AFL career, and the Tigers have committed to taking him.
There are no restrictions on age or experience for rookie-listed players, meaning the Tigers can sign Miller as insurance for their young tall forwards.
Damian Hardwick's young list has only five players over 25, with the club aware it is only a Riewoldt injury away from trouble next year.
Miller will probably start behind young forwards such as Ben Griffiths and David Astbury in the pecking order, but could easily add to the 133 games he played at Melbourne.
Friday's list lodgement should see him dropped by the Demons, allowing him to begin training at Richmond next week and be rookie-listed in early December.
The Tigers also are aware of Miller's leadership qualities, put on show late this year.
He was offered a farewell game with Melbourne, but was content to play finals for VFL affiliate Casey Scorpions.
He polled the most votes of any Demons player in Casey's best-and-fairest, kicking 10 goals in one game.
Gold Coast had shown interest in Miller, but it seems no club will stand in the way of the Tigers rookie-listing him.
Richmond will also pick up disgruntled Essendon midfielder Bachar Houli during the pre-season.
The Tigers believe recruiting Miller will not interfere with their objective of developing a young list.
Richmond assistant coach Wayne Campbell said Miller would complement the club's young forwards.
"We just think he can help Riewoldt and Griffiths and these sort of guys, but I don't think we expect him to play 22 games here," Campbell said.
"We see him more as a guy who's got some teaching ability for our young guys."
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/richmond-set-on-brad-miller/story-e6frf9jf-1225944426340
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The only reason clubs pick up players like Miller is they are having a tilt at a finals campaign.
We can oly hope :)
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Either that or because he has the fittest misses going around
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Either that or because he has the fittest misses going around
That has got to be why we are Rookie-ing Brad!
:rollin
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The only reason clubs pick up players like Miller is they are having a tilt at a finals campaign.
Not in our case :P
(http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofview/insurance_claim_form.jpg)
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Don't min hislop on the rookie list.
At least he is not soft. Would be a very handy max rooke type player for coburg
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Don't min hislop on the rookie list.
At least he is not soft. Would be a very handy max rooke type player for coburg
Our rookie list should be for the development of potential AFL players for Richmond; not VFL players for Coburg :P.
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Our rookie list should be for the development of potential AFL players for Richmond; not VFL players for Coburg :P.
Miller i get but I am very annoyed that they are going to rookie Hislop.
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yeah, Im having trouble getting my head around that.
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Both are a waste of rookie spots as both aren't part of our future. If the Club believed using two late rookie picks on kids is unlikely to find a future AFL standard player (poor thinking btw) then we would be better off going short next year (6 rookies instead of 8) and saving the two rookie salaries to fund the new gym equipment instead (which we need also otherwise the Club wouldn't be asking for supporters to contribute towards it). Saving two rookie salaries is worth $70k-$100k.
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and saving the two rookie salaries to fund the new gym equipment instead (which we need also otherwise the Club wouldn't be asking for supporters to contribute towards it).
I keep hearing this and I really don't understand the logic of these comments. Of course the club is going to ask and so they should. If they don't get enough money then they will no doubt fund the balance. I would expect Collingwood to ask also. Any money you can get funded from elsewhere frees up money for other things. If you as a supporter don't want to contribute then don't, some might quite like the idea of supplying some gym equipment. I have no problem with them asking. Don't ask, don't get.
Personally I think it's up to the coaches to decide who they should or should not rookie. If they see worth in Miller and Hislop then it's their call. They're the ones with the plan and they can run it any way they like. I am quite sure if they saw no value in Hislop he'd be gone. Hardwick et al seem quite capable of making the hard call. If it doesn't work and he's gone at the end of the year then that is not an indication they have no idea, simply means that something they tried didn't work. Same deal as Roberts, same deal as the Hawks and Peterson.
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Both are a waste of rookie spots as both aren't part of our future. If the Club believed using two late rookie picks on kids is unlikely to find a future AFL standard player (poor thinking btw) then we would be better off going short next year (6 rookies instead of 8) and saving the two rookie salaries to fund the new gym equipment instead (which we need also otherwise the Club wouldn't be asking for supporters to contribute towards it). Saving two rookie salaries is worth $70k-$100k.
I like your thinking MT.
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Don't min hislop on the rookie list.
At least he is not soft. Would be a very handy max rooke type player for coburg
Our rookie list should be for the development of potential AFL players for Richmond; not VFL players for Coburg :P.
hislop is alot younger than miller.
Former high draft pick. Not impossible one day he ends ok afl player
26 Nahas, Robin 33 22yr 11mth 10 Nov 1987 176cm 67kg Oakleigh Chargers Forward
16 Grigg, Shaun 43 22yr 6mth 19 Apr 1988 190cm 85kg Nth Ballarat Midfield
42 O'Reilly, Jamie (R) 3 22yr 6mth 28 Apr 1988 184cm 78kg County Down, Ireland Midfield
27 Hislop, Tom 22 22yr 4mth 7 Jun 1988 185cm 85kg Tassie Mariners Midfield
46 Webberley, Jeromey 10 22yr 3mth 12 Jul 1988 181cm 74kg Clarence Defender
19 Connors, Daniel 24 22yr 1mth 22 Sep 1988 184cm 82kg Bendigo Midfield
10 Edwards, Shane 69 22yr 25 Oct 1988
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Both are a waste of rookie spots as both aren't part of our future. If the Club believed using two late rookie picks on kids is unlikely to find a future AFL standard player (poor thinking btw) then we would be better off going short next year (6 rookies instead of 8) and saving the two rookie salaries to fund the new gym equipment instead (which we need also otherwise the Club wouldn't be asking for supporters to contribute towards it). Saving two rookie salaries is worth $70k-$100k.
rubbish.
Having a full playing roster > saving 70k
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Here's Miller training with us...
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs914.snc4/72748_458757898275_298686323275_5365136_3286754_n.jpg)
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Here's Miller training with us...
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs914.snc4/72748_458757898275_298686323275_5365136_3286754_n.jpg)
Lookin foward to seeing him play for the yellow and black :thumbsup
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I don't like this decision but looks like it's going to happen.
Regardless he deserves all fans support.
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and saving the two rookie salaries to fund the new gym equipment instead (which we need also otherwise the Club wouldn't be asking for supporters to contribute towards it).
I keep hearing this and I really don't understand the logic of these comments. Of course the club is going to ask and so they should. If they don't get enough money then they will no doubt fund the balance. I would expect Collingwood to ask also. Any money you can get funded from elsewhere frees up money for other things. If you as a supporter don't want to contribute then don't, some might quite like the idea of supplying some gym equipment. I have no problem with them asking. Don't ask, don't get.
Not really the point I was making. More emphasizing that IMO using the rookie list for "insurance" is a complete and utter waste of time (and money for that matter) in the long-run when you're 2nd last on the ladder and rebuilding the list. If Jack goes down with injury everything is still supposedly going to be okey dokey because we're going to replace a 78-goal-a-year Coleman medallist with someone who was surplus to a side that finished 12th this year and has no long-term playing future at Richmond either, has never kicked more than 26 goals in a season and has kicked 50 goals less than Jack has in his entire career despite Jack being 6 years younger ???. Hello development clogger! :help
Personally I think it's up to the coaches to decide who they should or should not rookie. If they see worth in Miller and Hislop then it's their call. They're the ones with the plan and they can run it any way they like. I am quite sure if they saw no value in Hislop he'd be gone. Hardwick et al seem quite capable of making the hard call. If it doesn't work and he's gone at the end of the year then that is not an indication they have no idea, simply means that something they tried didn't work. Same deal as Roberts, same deal as the Hawks and Peterson.
That shouldn't make them above scrutiny though. It's not as though this "insurance" argument hasn't been fed to supporters before (eg: Howat, Humm, Silvester).
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Don't min hislop on the rookie list.
At least he is not soft. Would be a very handy max rooke type player for coburg
Our rookie list should be for the development of potential AFL players for Richmond; not VFL players for Coburg :P.
hislop is alot younger than miller.
Former high draft pick. Not impossible one day he ends ok afl player
26 Nahas, Robin 33 22yr 11mth 10 Nov 1987 176cm 67kg Oakleigh Chargers Forward
16 Grigg, Shaun 43 22yr 6mth 19 Apr 1988 190cm 85kg Nth Ballarat Midfield
42 O'Reilly, Jamie (R) 3 22yr 6mth 28 Apr 1988 184cm 78kg County Down, Ireland Midfield
27 Hislop, Tom 22 22yr 4mth 7 Jun 1988 185cm 85kg Tassie Mariners Midfield
46 Webberley, Jeromey 10 22yr 3mth 12 Jul 1988 181cm 74kg Clarence Defender
19 Connors, Daniel 24 22yr 1mth 22 Sep 1988 184cm 82kg Bendigo Midfield
10 Edwards, Shane 69 22yr 25 Oct 1988
High draft pick is irrelevant after a few years in the AFL system as we've just found out with Tambling as well as Meyer, Patto, Polo, JON, Cleve, Schulz, Gilmour and Fiora :-\. Hislop has had 4 years in the AFL system yet played just 22 games averaging 11 possies. He's only played in 3 wins where in each case he was in the bottom 6 for disposals. Hardly stuff to write home about and persevere with. The only thing Sloppy has in common with Grigg, Connors and Edwards is they were drafted in the same year. Webberley has had just one season of AFL yet is already with an average of 15 possies, O'Reilly just two coming from a gaelic background, while Nahas also in his 2nd year was found out this year.
Having a full playing roster where all players are part of the club's future and not back-ups while in rebuild mode > saving 70k
Added the bold bit.
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Not really the point I was making. More emphasizing that IMO using the rookie list for "insurance" is a complete and utter waste of time (and money for that matter) in the long-run when you're 2nd last on the ladder and rebuilding the list. If Jack goes down with injury everything is still supposedly going to be okey dokey because we're going to replace a 78-goal-a-year Coleman medallist with someone who was surplus to a side that finished 12th this year and has no long-term playing future at Richmond either, has never kicked more than 26 goals in a season and has kicked 50 goals less than Jack has in his entire career despite Jack being 6 years younger ???. Hello development clogger! :help
Mt, you don't see maintaining structure as being important to development?
What happens if say Jack goes down in early in the season?
Options to provide two tall forwards, and where they stand from what we have seen so far are;
Griffiths; probably the only real option that has shown he can make the forward line function,so far. A second year player who has dodgy shoulders. It was stated that getting Miller means there will be no pressure on Griffiths to come back before he is ready. Even if he was ready from his shoulders point of view, is he ready to take pole position with another youngster in the forward line?
Post, has really only shown glimpses in his two years. Right now it would be hard to argue he has the maturity, nouse, development or work ethic to hold down a KF position, particularily No. 1 spot.
Vickery; a third year tall who still has a long, long way to go. Really seems like a ruckman who can plonk in the goal square on occasions rather than a long term KPF.
Astubry; may be capable, but looks to be groomed as a CHB. At this stage he shows signs he could make that position his own long term. Moving him forward for any period of time would be robbing peter to pay paul.
Browne and Gus; young ruckmen who are still a long way off. The fact they were not tried as a second tall up forward when players like mcguane and thursty were in an attempt to find that structure speaks volumes .
Goo, seems bookmarked for FB, again would be robbing peter to pay paul.
Rance; hasnt looked like cementing his place in the team, let alone a KF position. Cant recall him taking too many overhead marks, let alone a contested one.
Westoff; yeah, someone has actually suggested that he could be tried, a young, raw, stick insect who has not even played a senior coburg game. expecting him to step up and play that role would be reminiscent of Bruce reid in that 12th man tape!
There is much more to developing players than simply throwing them to the wolves. Sometimes you get to a situation where you need a short term fix to stop everything unravelling or to protect those that are not ready. Many people bagged the decision to ask simmonds to go around again, particularly when he pulled the pin mid season, but the question these people probably never even considered is, was gus ready at the start of the season? Sure he probably wasn't as ready as the coaching staff would have liked when he had to step up, but what we saw from him compared to what we saw early in the season suggests to me that that extra 2 months of development at the lower level made the world of difference.
One or two injuries to key big men and we are in for a bucket load of hurt. How long can the coach keep saying, my gameplan /structures do work, just that I dont have the players to execute it properly when the midfield keeps pumping the ball into the forward line for very little return, or even a hint that the return is close to happening?
Just as with so many things in life, you hope for the best, but plan for the worst. To do otherwise would be derelict in your duties.
Miller as a rookie is not about trying to gain a few extra goals in the vain hope of pinching a few extra wins for short term glory.
It is about maintaining structure without having to risk players who are not ready from a physical, mental and development point of view. While it is a short term action, it is one taken with a long term view by a coach that is from all accounts, very intelligent, diligent and meticulous.
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Mt, you don't see maintaining structure as being important to development?
I see this as very important and have no problem with Miller.
If we have a back-up for Jack and Griff if they are injured, then the gameplan does not need to be altered and allows the team to keep learning the gameplan.
2011 is still a learning year for us.
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Mt, you don't see maintaining structure as being important to development?
...........................
It is about maintaining structure without having to risk players who are not ready from a physical, mental and development point of view. While it is a short term action, it is one taken with a long term view by a coach that is from all accounts, very intelligent, diligent and meticulous.
Spot on Al, very good post. Having and maintaining structure means all components in the team are learning and developing in each and every game. Having structure in the forward line is not about Miller winning a Coleman Medal as Jack's replacement - it's about the mids knowing how to deliver into the forward line to our advantage, it's about the small forwards knowing where to position themselves around a key forward playing to team rules, it's about the confidence the kids get in seeing team rules and game plans achieve success. And if, God forbid, Jack and/or Griffiths go down then we need to plug that hole before we risk much of the learning going down the drain as young heads drop.
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and saving the two rookie salaries to fund the new gym equipment instead (which we need also otherwise the Club wouldn't be asking for supporters to contribute towards it).
I keep hearing this and I really don't understand the logic of these comments. Of course the club is going to ask and so they should. If they don't get enough money then they will no doubt fund the balance. I would expect Collingwood to ask also. Any money you can get funded from elsewhere frees up money for other things. If you as a supporter don't want to contribute then don't, some might quite like the idea of supplying some gym equipment. I have no problem with them asking. Don't ask, don't get.
Not really the point I was making. More emphasizing that IMO using the rookie list for "insurance" is a complete and utter waste of time (and money for that matter) in the long-run when you're 2nd last on the ladder and rebuilding the list. If Jack goes down with injury everything is still supposedly going to be okey dokey because we're going to replace a 78-goal-a-year Coleman medallist with someone who was surplus to a side that finished 12th this year and has no long-term playing future at Richmond either, has never kicked more than 26 goals in a season and has kicked 50 goals less than Jack has in his entire career despite Jack being 6 years younger ???. Hello development clogger! :help
Then you shouldn't bring the money up in your post. Sorry MT, you've received a bit of my frustration over people complaining about being asked to fund gym equipment and using it to imply the club is strapped for cash and mismanaged. I have seen in other posts and on other forums. Personally regard the idea of asking the members if they want to contribute as a good idea and frees up money for something else.
I do understand the point you are making above but it is not what I was addressing. I don't understand the role they have in mind for Miller since it is supposedly a bit different. I'm going to wait and see what transpires but I do agree with the idea of the importance of structure in a young team. Look what happened when Griff went down last year, goals were a hell of a lot harder to come by. Griff kicked what ... 2 goals last year? But having him in the forward line allowed Jack a lot more freedom and he was absolutely on fire during the Griff games. What's better for Jack. Learning to dominate or struggling under a double, triple, quadruple team?
Personally I think it's up to the coaches to decide who they should or should not rookie. If they see worth in Miller and Hislop then it's their call. They're the ones with the plan and they can run it any way they like. I am quite sure if they saw no value in Hislop he'd be gone. Hardwick et al seem quite capable of making the hard call. If it doesn't work and he's gone at the end of the year then that is not an indication they have no idea, simply means that something they tried didn't work. Same deal as Roberts, same deal as the Hawks and Peterson.
That shouldn't make them above scrutiny though. It's not as though this "insurance" argument hasn't been fed to supporters before (eg: Howat, Humm, Silvester).
No they should be accountable but at the beginning of his 2nd year as coach I think we can wait a little to judge Hardwick. His first year was not bad in my opinion. He definitely should not be held accountable for Howat, Humm, Silvester. That's just silly. (I'm not going to argue the merits of those players since it's off topic and not relevant to this discussion).
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Whilst we are looking at Miller...the papers today said that Melbourne were looking at Mitch Thorp.
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polo patto Jon gilmour Should simply not been taken that high in the draft.
Cleave was not high draft pick
Don't min hislop on the rookie list.
At least he is not soft. Would be a very handy max rooke type player for coburg
Our rookie list should be for the development of potential AFL players for Richmond; not VFL players for Coburg :P.
hislop is alot younger than miller.
Former high draft pick. Not impossible one day he ends ok afl player
26 Nahas, Robin 33 22yr 11mth 10 Nov 1987 176cm 67kg Oakleigh Chargers Forward
16 Grigg, Shaun 43 22yr 6mth 19 Apr 1988 190cm 85kg Nth Ballarat Midfield
42 O'Reilly, Jamie (R) 3 22yr 6mth 28 Apr 1988 184cm 78kg County Down, Ireland Midfield
27 Hislop, Tom 22 22yr 4mth 7 Jun 1988 185cm 85kg Tassie Mariners Midfield
46 Webberley, Jeromey 10 22yr 3mth 12 Jul 1988 181cm 74kg Clarence Defender
19 Connors, Daniel 24 22yr 1mth 22 Sep 1988 184cm 82kg Bendigo Midfield
10 Edwards, Shane 69 22yr 25 Oct 1988
High draft pick is irrelevant after a few years in the AFL system as we've just found out with Tambling as well as Meyer, Patto, Polo, JON, Cleve, Schulz, Gilmour and Fiora :-\. Hislop has had 4 years in the AFL system yet played just 22 games averaging 11 possies. He's only played in 3 wins where in each case he was in the bottom 6 for disposals. Hardly stuff to write home about and persevere with. The only thing Sloppy has in common with Grigg, Connors and Edwards is they were drafted in the same year. Webberley has had just one season of AFL yet is already with an average of 15 possies, O'Reilly just two coming from a gaelic background, while Nahas also in his 2nd year was found out this year.
Having a full playing roster where all players are part of the club's future and not back-ups while in rebuild mode > saving 70k
Added the bold bit.
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Whilst we are looking at Miller...the papers today said that Melbourne were looking at Mitch Thorp.
They can have the arrogant yet useless hack
Miller is better than him :lol
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Here's Miller training with us...
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs914.snc4/72748_458757898275_298686323275_5365136_3286754_n.jpg)
Lookin foward to seeing him play for the yellow and black :thumbsup
Looking forward seeing Pia around Tigerland!
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polo patto Jon gilmour Should simply not been taken that high in the draft.
Cleave was not high draft pick
I agree with the first sentence but they were still taken high. They all didn't live up to their high selection and so were cut. Cleve was pick 24; no that much difference to Hislop who was pick 20 the following year nor Polo (#20 in 2004) and Gilmour (#21 in 2003).
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Mt, you don't see maintaining structure as being important to development?
Not when it comes at the expense of development with a 27 year old who won't be part of our future line-up playing ahead of a youngster who will. It then becomes only building a gameplan around a short-term structure. Say Griffiths is the one who misses most of next season so Miller plays alongside Jack up forward. What happens this time next year ... does 2011 become a true reflection of where we are at and how far we are away from the better sides when we have a temp. up forward? What if we do win a few more games with Miller in the side than without him .... does our poorer draft position help us long-term? What if Jack goes down in 2012 .... does Miller go around again or do we start from scratch with our structure playing a totally inexperienced young tall who could have had a season of experience in the seniors behind him had we stuck to getting as many games into the cubs as we can?
At this stage in our rebuild it should still be about as much gametime for our cubs as possible. The Club needs to plan and focus on what is best for us in 2013-14 and beyond when our playing list starts hitting its peak; not 2011 playing it one year at a time again as we as a club have a bad habit of doing and making it up as we go along ::). Add to that Miller has shown no history over his entire career of carrying and leading a forward line for more than a handful of games. Sorry al, IMO it's a waste of time having "back-ups" on our list when we are in full rebuild mode.
What happens if say Jack goes down in early in the season?
We'll struggle but that's going to happen next year anyway as we did this year even with Jack kicking 78 goals. Supporters are just going to have to accept there's more pain to come before we improve. I could also mention the advantages of gaining a priority pick(s) :shh but I have enough posters as it is disagreeing with me over my objection to the recruitment of Miller ;D.
Options to provide two tall forwards, and where they stand from what we have seen so far are;
Griffiths; probably the only real option that has shown he can make the forward line function,so far. A second year player who has dodgy shoulders. It was stated that getting Miller means there will be no pressure on Griffiths to come back before he is ready. Even if he was ready from his shoulders point of view, is he ready to take pole position with another youngster in the forward line?
Post, has really only shown glimpses in his two years. Right now it would be hard to argue he has the maturity, nouse, development or work ethic to hold down a KF position, particularily No. 1 spot.
Vickery; a third year tall who still has a long, long way to go. Really seems like a ruckman who can plonk in the goal square on occasions rather than a long term KPF.
Astubry; may be capable, but looks to be groomed as a CHB. At this stage he shows signs he could make that position his own long term. Moving him forward for any period of time would be robbing peter to pay paul.
Browne and Gus; young ruckmen who are still a long way off. The fact they were not tried as a second tall up forward when players like mcguane and thursty were in an attempt to find that structure speaks volumes .
Goo, seems bookmarked for FB, again would be robbing peter to pay paul.
Rance; hasnt looked like cementing his place in the team, let alone a KF position. Cant recall him taking too many overhead marks, let alone a contested one.
Westoff; yeah, someone has actually suggested that he could be tried, a young, raw, stick insect who has not even played a senior coburg game. expecting him to step up and play that role would be reminiscent of Bruce reid in that 12th man tape!
All fair and reasonable points about each tall al but since we are talking about hypothetical situations what happens if both Jack and Miller go down? We'll be forced to make do with what we've got anyway.
Recall this time last year when Richo announced his retirement, we (as in all of us here) questioned and debated where our goals were going to come from 2010. It was no certainty we could rely on Jack. Some here who shall remain nameless with the initial "R" ;D even wanted to trade him :wallywink. In the end Jack stepped up in his 4th year and won a Coleman medal when he was handed the responsibility of No.1 key forward and in return the Club knows it has a top footballer on its hands. Imagine instead if we had Miller on the rookie list this year as insurance because we felt Jack and the rest of the talls weren't ready. Miller would've been in the way of Jack's development. Eventually the youngsters need to play and be given the responsibility especially those in their 3rd/4th years so we can determine if they are up to it or not.
There is much more to developing players than simply throwing them to the wolves. Sometimes you get to a situation where you need a short term fix to stop everything unravelling or to protect those that are not ready. Many people bagged the decision to ask simmonds to go around again, particularly when he pulled the pin mid season, but the question these people probably never even considered is, was gus ready at the start of the season? Sure he probably wasn't as ready as the coaching staff would have liked when he had to step up, but what we saw from him compared to what we saw early in the season suggests to me that that extra 2 months of development at the lower level made the world of difference.
I would say Simmonds in 2010 supports my point. Playing him in those 6 games made little difference to our structure as we were totally uncompetitive in every match early on and got flogged in the ruck anyway. Fortunately for the team's sake Simmo did retire so Gus and co. could play most of the rest of the season. If Simmonds' crook knee was still adequate for him to play out the season we wouldn't have the clearer picture we have now of where our 3 rucks are at. Postie wouldn't have played as 2nd ruck either so we'd be in the dark about how well that would work as well.
I'm not expecting miracles from our youngsters but I do expect the cubs to get gametime preference over those who aren't part of our future. Especially those coming into their 3rd/4th seasons who need to start showing they can play at AFL level.
One or two injuries to key big men and we are in for a bucket load of hurt. How long can the coach keep saying, my gameplan /structures do work, just that I dont have the players to execute it properly when the midfield keeps pumping the ball into the forward line for very little return, or even a hint that the return is close to happening?
Just as with so many things in life, you hope for the best, but plan for the worst. To do otherwise would be derelict in your duties.
Miller as a rookie is not about trying to gain a few extra goals in the vain hope of pinching a few extra wins for short term glory.
It is about maintaining structure without having to risk players who are not ready from a physical, mental and development point of view. While it is a short term action, it is one taken with a long term view by a coach that is from all accounts, very intelligent, diligent and meticulous.
We'll have to agree to disagree al. As I said if Jack and Miller himself go down then we'll still be in for a bucket load of hurt. I won't be blaming Hardwick if we struggle next year as I expect we will struggle anyway even if Jack stays healthy. Footy is a team sport of 22 players. One player doesn't solve structural issues especially with our forward line absent of any quality and classy HFs and dangerous small forwards, our defence lacking quality and sizable key talls and our midfield lacking quality mature rucks, outside run at ground level and depth. We are still like Swiss cheese structurally across the park.
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You know I usually agree with you MT but I feel the Miller trade will be benefical to our club. I understand your argument and in any other year I would problem be arguing along side with you but this year circumstances are markedly different.
Yes al's argument of recruiting Miller for structural insurance seems perfectly sound to me. You mentioned that we should give out young forwards the opportunity to stand up when a 'hole' is created such as what happened with Jack when Richo retired. The problem with this theory is that you are assuming that for every young player that is exposed early to this type of pressure/attention/responsibility it is benefical. The reality of this scenerion though is that it is often harmful. Young players can injuried, lose their confidence, learn negative habits etc all from being exposed to situations such as these too early. Jack was a fouth year player with confidence to burn so the risk of giving him the responsibility of our leading forward was always minimal at best. Having Miller there to allow our young players the time to learn the structures, developed their bodies and slowly absord the pressure and responsibility of the position is extremely important.
It is extremely important to give Jack, Griff and the other smaller forwards time together to learn how each other plays and what structures works best but if injury or form warrants it having a ready-made forward to step in for a few weeks is much better than throwing in a young forward before they are ready where you could not only damage their future but also disrupt the education of rest of the team when they throw out the game plan/structure they are all still attempting to learn.
Another even more important factor is Miller's role as an educator. One of the biggest influences on the recuiters was Millers ability to assist in the development of the young forwards and players in general. From all reports he is a ready made coach and has a huge amount of leadership and understanding of the game. Miller will spend much of his time training with the squad and playing with the younger draftees down at Coburg where he can fast track them as players and, most importantly, instill the team first culture that Hardwick believes is most important to future premiership success.
Lastly the greatest reason to bring Miller to the club is through necessity. This draft tails off far earlier than other drafts due to the consessions made to the GC. While there is still good players to be found in the early rounds the later rounds thin out dramatically. Miller is effectively taking the place of Pick 214 (145 ND picks plus 7 PSD Picks plus our Rookie pick 62). We will still be using first 4 rounds of the rookie draft to choose speculative/project players but can you really see at rookie taken at round 5, in additional to all the talent GC has already pillaged from the draft pool, worth the money and time we would invest in them. Miller will require no development time and infact will give us additional scope to invest other young players.
Presented with the situation we have been this year, I think taking Miller is a clever move. We'll have to agree to diagree on this one MT. :thumbsup
Stripes
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If miller is such a great teacher why have melbourne let him go whb the like of jurrah and watts are still so young?
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If miller is such a great teacher why have melbourne let him go whb the like of jurrah and watts are still so young?
I would expect they see him as only a player while we are bringing him more in as an additional development coach/player. Teams see different things in different players which is why so many teams pick up other teams discards every year some of which turn out to be great players in a different environment such as Rodan.
So Bents do you think we should use pick 214 on a player that has a tiny percentage to actual see out their first contract or bring in someone who could have a role to play in developing and protecting the talent we already have?
Stripes
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Then you shouldn't bring the money up in your post. Sorry MT, you've received a bit of my frustration over people complaining about being asked to fund gym equipment and using it to imply the club is strapped for cash and mismanaged. I have seen in other posts and on other forums. Personally regard the idea of asking the members if they want to contribute as a good idea and frees up money for something else.
Fair enough.
I do understand the point you are making above but it is not what I was addressing. I don't understand the role they have in mind for Miller since it is supposedly a bit different. I'm going to wait and see what transpires but I do agree with the idea of the importance of structure in a young team. Look what happened when Griff went down last year, goals were a hell of a lot harder to come by. Griff kicked what ... 2 goals last year? But having him in the forward line allowed Jack a lot more freedom and he was absolutely on fire during the Griff games. What's better for Jack. Learning to dominate or struggling under a double, triple, quadruple team?
Griffs was our lucky charm this year and does understand forward-line set-ups but Jack still kicked a few bags without Griffs alongside him. IMO when Jack was starved it was more due to our midfield being beaten especially on the spread and our inability to cope with and penetrate the defensive pressure of the opposition and their full-press zonal tactics. We need to add more classier players across all lines.
I see it this way Oiafi. If we cop injuries to key players then we'll stay around or even drop from 15th down to 16th/17th. Yeah it'll be painful to watch for another season but it's hardly something we need to "insure" against. What's the worst thing that could happen? We finish last and gain a free bonus priority pick who'll play and improve our list alongside Jack and Griffs when they return for 2012 and for the next decade. We should have had two priority picks from the past two seasons with some smart forward planning from mid-2009 but that's another story :-X. Anyway for me it's about 2013-14 and beyond and the longer we delay getting games into our youngsters the longer our rebuild will take. IMO Miller if he plays he is a development clogger and if he doesn't then he is a waste of a rookie pick. Either way it's not in our long-term interests.
No they should be accountable but at the beginning of his 2nd year as coach I think we can wait a little to judge Hardwick. His first year was not bad in my opinion. He definitely should not be held accountable for Howat, Humm, Silvester. That's just silly. (I'm not going to argue the merits of those players since it's off topic and not relevant to this discussion).
Although Hardwick will have some say in the (type of) players he wants as senior coach, he's not employed by the Club to be our list manager and long-term strategist. We do have a board director on the football subcommittee (Free) and Head of Footy Dept. (Cameron) who are Dimma's superiors. The days of blaming the senior coach and only the senior coach are gone. Accountability stretches all the way to the top especially when it comes to long-term planning or lack or it regarding list management and recruiting philosophies.
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I've split the Miller discussion from the Training thread to here.
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If miller is such a great teacher why have melbourne let him go whb the like of jurrah and watts are still so young?
bentleigh I totally agree.
a melbourne mate of mine said to me that at melbourne Miller was seen as a list clogger
whilst i dont object to the miller trade, I think a priority should be given to a "younger" player ala Mitch Thorp (though not him) ie. a young fwd in the WAFL, SANFL or VFL that night actually make it in the AFL whilst also providing the famed "backup" to JR8 and Griff
given that Anthony just walked out on the pies...why not pick up Houli in the national draft and anthony in the psd and forget about miller?
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If miller is such a great teacher why have melbourne let him go whb the like of jurrah and watts are still so young?
bentleigh I totally agree.
a melbourne mate of mine said to me that at melbourne Miller was seen as a list clogger
whilst i dont object to the miller trade, I think a priority should be given to a "younger" player ala Mitch Thorp (though not him) ie. a young fwd in the WAFL, SANFL or VFL that night actually make it in the AFL whilst also providing the famed "backup" to JR8 and Griff
given that Anthony just walked out on the pies...why not pick up Houli in the national draft and anthony in the psd and forget about miller?
with all due respects to the mighty dees but they didnt have a coleman medalist for miller to buddy up in the front half, ka[ish :shh
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I've split the Miller discussion from the Training thread to here.
Thank Geez for that
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If miller is such a great teacher why have melbourne let him go whb the like of jurrah and watts are still so young?
bentleigh I totally agree.
a melbourne mate of mine said to me that at melbourne Miller was seen as a list clogger
whilst i dont object to the miller trade, I think a priority should be given to a "younger" player ala Mitch Thorp (though not him) ie. a young fwd in the WAFL, SANFL or VFL that night actually make it in the AFL whilst also providing the famed "backup" to JR8 and Griff
Melbourne are actually interested in Thorp as a replacement for Miller and them missing out on Hale.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/demons-look-to-former-hawk-thorp/story-e6frg7mf-1225947504767
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If miller is such a great teacher why have melbourne let him go whb the like of jurrah and watts are still so young?
bentleigh I totally agree.
a melbourne mate of mine said to me that at melbourne Miller was seen as a list clogger
whilst i dont object to the miller trade, I think a priority should be given to a "younger" player ala Mitch Thorp (though not him) ie. a young fwd in the WAFL, SANFL or VFL that night actually make it in the AFL whilst also providing the famed "backup" to JR8 and Griff
given that Anthony just walked out on the pies...why not pick up Houli in the national draft and anthony in the psd and forget about miller?
Sometimes ingrained prejudices or perceptions can cause the 'can't see the wood for the trees' scenario. Wonder if that's what's happened with Melbourne?
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From Brad Miller's twitter page:
"Great 1st week @ punt rd! Really good bunch of lads. A couple of the young blokes have taught me a lesson on w/rate in the gym!!...SOLID!!"
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sounds reinvigorated. Pushing the envelope, legacy of Ben Cousins maybe? Might just be a good coaching all round.
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If Jack Anthony was good enough to "hold the fort" at collingwood until they were ready to updrade him with Dawes, then he's certainly good enough to do the same with us and a better option(and player)than Miller. Its done though, but reiterate this is a silly list management decision.
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If Jack Anthony was good enough to "hold the fort" at collingwood until they were ready to updrade him with Dawes, then he's certainly good enough to do the same with us and a better option(and player)than Miller. Its done though, but reiterate this is a silly list management decision.
We'll never really know. If the move is successful he will see little game time and the young players will benefit from his off-field leadership and development, neither of which will be obvious to the average supporter. If he sees plenty of game time he will be there because things have turned pear shaped and we need him for insurance which is a neagitive but he may actually perform well onfield.
So the success or failure of his recruitment is always going to be speculative at best imho.
I for one think, given the draft and our list, it is a positive view but I can completely understand why others do not.
Stripes
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really cant understand why we would opt for Miller now that Anthony is available.
Has the skills as is proven by his 50 goal year a few years back just needs the opportunities.
Would rather neither if the truth be told but if given a choice Anthony for sure. Miller honestly what are we thinking.
Why go for an old has been is beyond me but i guess till we get rid of Cameron that fool mistakes like this will keep popping up.
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as Anthony is a goose of a bloke, thats why they dont want him, and furthermore ,was put on the trade table, clubs didnt want him
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Anthony is poo
Schulz is better. Actually, Cleve Hughes has just as much talent, he just didn't get the delivery that Anthony did at Collingwood. I'd rather Miller than a softy
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Anthony is poo
Schulz is better. Actually, Cleve Hughes has just as much talent, he just didn't get the delivery that Anthony did at Collingwood. I'd rather Miller than a softy
correct
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as Anthony is a goose of a bloke, thats why they dont want him, and furthermore ,was put on the trade table, clubs didnt want him
both are crap lets be honest but id go Anthony just. Please dont compare any footballer in any level with Cleve Hughes
as for JA being an idiot i wouldnt know.
Edited for legal reasons - despite everyone knowing who it is my legal advice is the person to which you referred has had their identity not made public by the courts - so therefore we cannot reference to it in anyway
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Miller is fine a 1-2 year project wont be clogging the list when we will contend like Anthony would.
Miller knows more about football than the wacko from Collingwood.
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Brad Miller's latest entry on his twitter page:
"For Sale - 1 x 27 year old body. In GC but is absolutely cooked after some of the hardest training of it's life!!! Will trade for a fresh 1."
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From Brads tweets lately It seems that the boys are getting a fair work out this preseason! Good to hear Miller is getting a good work out! Who knows he may become a decent pick up with a good preseason! It might make him really desperate to make his mark on the side before he retires!
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Miller is fine a 1-2 year project wont be clogging the list when we will contend like Anthony would.
Miller knows more about football than the wacko from Collingwood.
you know this how?
I dont know Miller at all but what makes you think he is exactly what we need at Punt road. Im sorry i dont think we need him at all.
We should spend more on developing the players we have got not recruit a discard from another club.
This is camerons doing and he hasnt really got a good track record of recruiting other clubs players now has he
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Miller looks in pretty good nic to be honest, as long as he is feeling fresh, he might be a very astute grab. Old age and cunning > youth and enthusiasm, if he can pass some of that on, even better. Not that he is really old...stuff 27, would kill to be 27 again haha.
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Miller is fine a 1-2 year project wont be clogging the list when we will contend like Anthony would.
Miller knows more about football than the wacko from Collingwood.
you know this how?
I dont know Miller at all but what makes you think he is exactly what we need at Punt road. Im sorry i dont think we need him at all.
We should spend more on developing the players we have got not recruit a discard from another club.
This is camerons doing and he hasnt really got a good track record of recruiting other clubs players now has he
:lol
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Miller is fine a 1-2 year project wont be clogging the list when we will contend like Anthony would.
Miller knows more about football than the wacko from Collingwood.
you know this how?
I dont know Miller at all but what makes you think he is exactly what we need at Punt road. Im sorry i dont think we need him at all.
We should spend more on developing the players we have got not recruit a discard from another club.
This is camerons doing and he hasnt really got a good track record of recruiting other clubs players now has he
I agree daniel, I wouldn't bring Miller in. But if you way up Anthony or Miller, Miller has been in the system for 10 years Anthony has played what 30 games? We don't need a fringe forward at 22, We don't really need Miller but if you compare the too I'd rather Miller as he can add something to forward line with his size and experience. Anthony can't do that. Also Miller wont be here for long where as we could do a Schultz with Anthony. Plus Anthony takes a spot on the Senior list Miller doesn't.
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Miller is fine a 1-2 year project wont be clogging the list when we will contend like Anthony would.
Miller knows more about football than the wacko from Collingwood.
you know this how?
I dont know Miller at all but what makes you think he is exactly what we need at Punt road. Im sorry i dont think we need him at all.
We should spend more on developing the players we have got not recruit a discard from another club.
This is camerons doing and he hasnt really got a good track record of recruiting other clubs players now has he
:lol
and that is different from others saying he is an astute pickup and will teach the young guys a few things/structure us up how exactly?
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Miller is fine a 1-2 year project wont be clogging the list when we will contend like Anthony would.
Miller knows more about football than the wacko from Collingwood.
you know this how?
I dont know Miller at all but what makes you think he is exactly what we need at Punt road. Im sorry i dont think we need him at all.
We should spend more on developing the players we have got not recruit a discard from another club.
This is camerons doing and he hasnt really got a good track record of recruiting other clubs players now has he
:lol
and that is different from others saying he is an astute pickup and will teach the young guys a few things/structure us up how exactly?
exactly
good one.. :clapping
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Miller is fine a 1-2 year project wont be clogging the list when we will contend like Anthony would.
Miller knows more about football than the wacko from Collingwood.
you know this how?
I dont know Miller at all but what makes you think he is exactly what we need at Punt road. Im sorry i dont think we need him at all.
We should spend more on developing the players we have got not recruit a discard from another club.
This is camerons doing and he hasnt really got a good track record of recruiting other clubs players now has he
:lol
and that is different from others saying he is an astute pickup and will teach the young guys a few things/structure us up how exactly?
Others aren't saying they know nothing about something they don't want.
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Miller is fine a 1-2 year project wont be clogging the list when we will contend like Anthony would.
Miller knows more about football than the wacko from Collingwood.
you know this how?
I dont know Miller at all but what makes you think he is exactly what we need at Punt road. Im sorry i dont think we need him at all.
We should spend more on developing the players we have got not recruit a discard from another club.
This is camerons doing and he hasnt really got a good track record of recruiting other clubs players now has he
:lol
and that is different from others saying he is an astute pickup and will teach the young guys a few things/structure us up how exactly?
Others aren't saying they know nothing about something they don't want.
they may not be saying it but they're doing the exact same thing. I reckon we could recruit neagle and the same ol will find a positive in it ;D
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Miller is fine a 1-2 year project wont be clogging the list when we will contend like Anthony would.
Miller knows more about football than the wacko from Collingwood.
you know this how?
I dont know Miller at all but what makes you think he is exactly what we need at Punt road. Im sorry i dont think we need him at all.
We should spend more on developing the players we have got not recruit a discard from another club.
This is camerons doing and he hasnt really got a good track record of recruiting other clubs players now has he
:lol
and that is different from others saying he is an astute pickup and will teach the young guys a few things/structure us up how exactly?
Others aren't saying they know nothing about something they don't want.
I reckon we could recruit neagle and the same ol will find a positive in it ;D
:lol
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Not sure why anyone would compare Miller to Anthony just because they play forward of centre
They are completely different players
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millers a better athlete than anthony. i actually expect miller to do a fairly good job for us up forward.
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Miller is fine a 1-2 year project wont be clogging the list when we will contend like Anthony would.
Miller knows more about football than the wacko from Collingwood.
you know this how?
I dont know Miller at all but what makes you think he is exactly what we need at Punt road. Im sorry i dont think we need him at all.
We should spend more on developing the players we have got not recruit a discard from another club.
This is camerons doing and he hasnt really got a good track record of recruiting other clubs players now has he
:lol
and that is different from others saying he is an astute pickup and will teach the young guys a few things/structure us up how exactly?
Others aren't saying they know nothing about something they don't want.
they may not be saying it but they're doing the exact same thing. I reckon we could recruit neagle and the same ol will find a positive in it ;D
;D I doubt it - none of the same ol have put forward a case for Hislop on the rookie list.
The difference is that mostly people defending the decision have posted on the thinking behind it ,which can be gleaned by listening to what the club has said and a bit of thought, rather than the player himself. A number of posts in this thread summarise why they believe the club is taking this path and the merits of it. MT is really the only one to put forward some sort of thought out argument against these posts.
If you can find such a contradictory statement amongst them, point it out and I will laugh at it with you, even if it's mine. ;D
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Rather mature rookie Matthew Richardson, the number #12 is vacant...
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Rather mature rookie Matthew Richardson, the number #12 is vacant...
:sleep
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How's that old vag of yours 1965? Still full of sand and a bogged VW? Or has someone finally managed to back a tow truck in there and pull that idiot out? Genuinely interested. Bet it's in mint condition, lack of moisture is good for rust prevention.
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Can someone clean me up? Just peeed my pants
:lol
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another classy post
:sleep
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Get out of here you 16 year old with no life. :shh
Good to see you again fat man :cheers
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Don't min hislop on the rookie list.
At least he is not soft. Would be a very handy max rooke type player for coburg
Our rookie list should be for the development of potential AFL players for Richmond; not VFL players for Coburg :P.
hislop is alot younger than miller.
Former high draft pick. Not impossible one day he ends ok afl player
26 Nahas, Robin 33 22yr 11mth 10 Nov 1987 176cm 67kg Oakleigh Chargers Forward
16 Grigg, Shaun 43 22yr 6mth 19 Apr 1988 190cm 85kg Nth Ballarat Midfield
42 O'Reilly, Jamie (R) 3 22yr 6mth 28 Apr 1988 184cm 78kg County Down, Ireland Midfield
27 Hislop, Tom 22 22yr 4mth 7 Jun 1988 185cm 85kg Tassie Mariners Midfield
46 Webberley, Jeromey 10 22yr 3mth 12 Jul 1988 181cm 74kg Clarence Defender
19 Connors, Daniel 24 22yr 1mth 22 Sep 1988 184cm 82kg Bendigo Midfield
10 Edwards, Shane 69 22yr 25 Oct 1988
High draft pick is irrelevant after a few years in the AFL system as we've just found out with Tambling as well as Meyer, Patto, Polo, JON, Cleve, Schulz, Gilmour and Fiora :-\. Hislop has had 4 years in the AFL system yet played just 22 games averaging 11 possies. He's only played in 3 wins where in each case he was in the bottom 6 for disposals. Hardly stuff to write home about and persevere with. The only thing Sloppy has in common with Grigg, Connors and Edwards is they were drafted in the same year. Webberley has had just one season of AFL yet is already with an average of 15 possies, O'Reilly just two coming from a gaelic background, while Nahas also in his 2nd year was found out this year.
Having a full playing roster where all players are part of the club's future and not back-ups while in rebuild mode > saving 70k
Added the bold bit.
you make a lot of sense mate
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:sleep
Dick
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Brad Miller almost a Tiger
By Kim Hagdorn
30 November 2010
FORMER Melbourne utility Brad Miller will take vital steps toward officially moving into Richmond colours when he lodges draft nomination documents today.
Miller, 27, looks certain to be a Tigers rookie draft selection on Tuesday December 7.
The versatile big man who can play as a key forward or close-checking defender is not expected to be taken as a pre-season draft pick with the Tigers committed to collecting disgruntled Essendon forward Bachar Houli.
Miller was dumped by Melbourne at the end of last season after he played just six games in 2010 as the Demons headed firmly into a youth policy for plans of a further rebuilding in coming seasons.
Miller looked to have revitalised his stumbling AFL career with a five-goal haul from 11 disposals in Melbourne’s Round 9 win over Port Adelaide in Darwin.
But he managed just three more goals in his next four outings over the next month and was dropped after Round 13 and not recalled before he was dumped from the Demons senior list.
Miller was one of three established Demons who were casualties of Melbourne’s rebuilding plans with respected captain James McDonald, 34, forced to retire and Cameron Bruce, 31, who walked out on broken contract talks.
Bruce is headed to Hawthorn through the pre-season draft and has been training with the Hawks for the past month.
Miller had originally been linked with a possible move to new AFL club Gold Coast with his origins at Mt Gravatt in Queensland.
But he has been training with the Tigers and appears certain to continue his career from Punt Road as a rookie.
The AFL has dramatically relaxed rules regulating rookie selection.
Clubs can have up to six rookies depending on the number of veterans on their senior list.
In 2011 for the first time, rookies can be any age as well as previously been on an AFL club list.
In the past clubs could only have one mature aged rookie over 23, such as Geelong’s 2010 rookie sensation James Podsiadly at 29.
Miller will be a Tigers rookie, while another aged de-listing victim Simon Taylor, 28, has also nominated for the final listing selections of the year.
Taylor's hopes of being taken in the draft appear far less certain.
http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2010/11/30/brad-miller-almost-a-tiger/
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Did Gold Coast pick up Jimmy Mac Jr.? I thought he had a pretty good year at the Dees, one of his best. Certainly one of their best players.
Anyway I hope those toffs choke on a continental cucumber, Bailey gets the sack, and Tom Scully comes over to Punt Road in a ruthlessly orchestrated piece of poaching.
I assume we leave Miller to our very last rookie pick?
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The AFL has dramatically relaxed rules regulating rookie selection.
Clubs can have up to six rookies depending on the number of veterans on their senior list.
In 2011 for the first time, rookies can be any age as well as previously been on an AFL club list.
In the past clubs could only have one mature aged rookie over 23, such as Geelong’s 2010 rookie sensation James Podsiadly at 29.
What drugs is this Kim Hagdorn on?
Clubs can have up to 8 rookies if no eligible veterans.
You could have 2 mature age rookies last year. We had Polak and Roberts.
2 mature age rookies is compensation for Gold Coast and GWS getting draft concessions. You can have 2 mature age rookies this year as well.
It reverts back to 1 in 2012, unless the rule is changed again.
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The AFL has dramatically relaxed rules regulating rookie selection.
Clubs can have up to six rookies depending on the number of veterans on their senior list.
In 2011 for the first time, rookies can be any age as well as previously been on an AFL club list.
In the past clubs could only have one mature aged rookie over 23, such as Geelong’s 2010 rookie sensation James Podsiadly at 29.
What drugs is this Kim Hagdorn on?
Clubs can have up to 8 rookies if no eligible veterans.
You could have 2 mature age rookies last year. We had Polak and Roberts.
2 mature age rookies is compensation for Gold Coast and GWS getting draft concessions. You can have 2 mature age rookies this year as well.
It reverts back to 1 in 2012, unless the rule is changed again.
Not true, there are no limits on rookies any more. They can all be any age and can all have AFL experience if you want.
Only limit is how many can play at AFL level based on number of veterans and LTIL
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According to the AFL site we can have nine rookies next year - 8 'normal' rookies plus O'Reilly if he's classed as an international rookie. I guess you could now have as many rookies as you're willing to pay for provided those outside the normal 8 are all international rookies.
ps. Miller is still a waste of a rookie pick ;D.
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:outtahere
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According to the AFL site we can have nine rookies next year - 8 'normal' rookies plus O'Reilly if he's classed as an international rookie. I guess you could now have as many rookies as you're willing to pay for provided those outside the normal 8 are all international rookies.
ps. Miller is still a waste of a rookie pick ;D.
I respectfully disagree MT on Miller but Hislop well.... :-\
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According to the AFL site we can have nine rookies next year - 8 'normal' rookies plus O'Reilly if he's classed as an international rookie. I guess you could now have as many rookies as you're willing to pay for provided those outside the normal 8 are all international rookies.
ps. Miller is still a waste of a rookie pick ;D.
I respectfully disagree MT on Miller but Hislop well.... :-\
Ah, good old Hislop. How the stuff is he still getting a gig :banghead
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Rookieing Miler & Hislop delays opportunity of improving the list.
I respectfully disagree MT on Miller but Hislop well.... :-\
Agree that Miller may provide some resource but still question the decision.
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Rookieing Miler & Hislop delays opportunity of improving the list.
I respectfully disagree MT on Miller but Hislop well.... :-\
Agree that Miller may provide some resource but still question the decision.
Cheap skills coach, onfield leader and backup. With 9 rookie spots potentially available it's the year to do it also imo.
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Rookieing Miler & Hislop delays opportunity of improving the list.
I respectfully disagree MT on Miller but Hislop well.... :-\
Agree that Miller may provide some resource but still question the decision.
What you gusy dont understand is we already have an elite foward Jr8 with plenty of other goal kickers ( Grigg, Griff, King and eventually Mcdonald miller will take alot of pressure of jack and give him a chance to have rests on teh interchange bench ... i say great descion by dimma and friends lol :thumbsup
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If jack is on the bench and Miller on the ground I will fair dinkum spew
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If jack is on the bench and Miller on the ground I will fair dinkum spew
What if it's because Miller has kicked 10 and Jack has done sweet FA ;) ;D ;D
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If jack is on the bench and Miller on the ground I will fair dinkum spew
What if it's because Miller has kicked 10 and Jack has done sweet FA ;) ;D ;D
Who knows these two could do very well together :thumbsup
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2 possies and a goal from a free in 80 minutes of footy :P. Miller is too slow and lacks agility and he'll spend all year at Coburg. It's why clubs in our position should not be drafting 27 year old rookies who are past it and not up to it. We're better off investing time in a kid if that's all the return onfield we are going to get.
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2 possies and a goal from a free in 80 minutes of footy :P. Miller is too slow and lacks agility and he'll spend all year at Coburg. It's why clubs in our position should not be drafting 27 year old rookies who are past it and not up to it. We're better off investing time in a kid if that's all the return onfield we are going to get.
hardwick short cuts
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hardwick short cuts
I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "short cut" as Miller was meant to be "back-up" on the rookie list. It's just a waste of a rookie list spot that should've been used on another kid or at least someone who potentially has a future on our list.
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2 possies and a goal from a free in 80 minutes of footy :P. Miller is too slow and lacks agility and he'll spend all year at Coburg. It's why clubs in our position should not be drafting 27 year old rookies who are past it and not up to it. We're better off investing time in a kid if that's all the return onfield we are going to get.
he better spend all year there mt... he better be a playing coach for coburg all season - thats all i have to say
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Overlooking a potential cox or Foley for Bradley miller = shrt cut
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He was a lone key forward for us last night
I expect better results when Riewoldt plays
(if he even gets promoted)
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hardwick short cuts
I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "short cut" as Miller was meant to be "back-up" on the rookie list. It's just a waste of a rookie list spot that should've been used on another kid or at least someone who potentially has a future on our list.
Depends how many games he gets ahead of a fit grif, post (et al)
'backup' could be Hardwickese for 'short cut'.
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Just saw the game on replay. Couldn't get a sniff :-\ It wouldn't have been easy playing as a forward last night though. Should have kicked two. Made a good lead and Connors stuffed up the kick and missed him by a fair bit...ball roles out and Collingwood get a free :scream
I'll wait and see how he goes when we've got a better side in and we're not playing a 20/20 style match ;D
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He was a lone key forward for us last night
I expect better results when Riewoldt plays
(if he even gets promoted)
i hope not tbh - bc if hes playing alongside reiwoldt it means griff/post/vickery arent getting a run as the 2nd tall. Lets hope he stays down at coburg where he belongs "coaching" the young guys
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He was a lone key forward for us last night
I expect better results when Riewoldt plays
(if he even gets promoted)
i hope not tbh - bc if hes playing alongside reiwoldt it means griff/post/vickery arent getting a run as the 2nd tall. Lets hope he stays down at coburg where he belongs "coaching" the young guys
Agree TM.
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listen neither Miller or TV did much but sheesh I heard with 5min to go v Collingwood we had 4 I50's...thats a tough night at the office for the forwards ::)
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listen neither Miller or TV did much but sheesh I heard with 5min to go v Collingwood we had 4 I50's...thats a tough night at the office for the forwards ::)
My opinion is not based on whether Miller will be any good - it's that if he plays it will mean something has gone wrong with the group of kids we are grooming as future KPF's and I don't want that scenario to happen.
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He was a lone key forward for us last night
I expect better results when Riewoldt plays
(if he even gets promoted)
i hope not tbh - bc if hes playing alongside reiwoldt it means griff/post/vickery arent getting a run as the 2nd tall. Lets hope he stays down at coburg where he belongs "coaching" the young guys
Agree TM.
Also agree. I just find it a bit strange how much flack he is getting for something that's not really his fault.
Pretty much any forward in the league would have struggled with the lack of I50s and how those we had were all long bombs into the forward line.
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Donate to the FTF and we'll be able to afford more assistant and development coaches instead of having to rookie list them :shh
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On the button.
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He was a lone key forward for us last night
I expect better results when Riewoldt plays
(if he even gets promoted)
i hope not tbh - bc if hes playing alongside reiwoldt it means griff/post/vickery arent getting a run as the 2nd tall. Lets hope he stays down at coburg where he belongs "coaching" the young guys
would have thought it was pretty clear vickery is not ready for senior footy. griffiths is coming of shoulders and may not play early season. the post man may play as a pinch hitting ruckman.
unlike some i dont have a problem with young talls developing in the ressies especially when they show they arent really ready for the ones.
again i will ask it of supporters. what is better for say a bloke like griffiths. 6 or 8 weeks of roughly 20 possesion games with 2 or 3 goals thrown in at coburg .or 6 or 8 weeks at richmond scrapping for the odd touch.
people seem to think 1st and second yr talls are just going to waltz in and get senior games and its going to be good for development.
it is not the way it works in most cases. for sure give em a few senior games here and there but let them develop where they probably belong for now.
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again i will ask it of supporters. what is better for say a bloke like griffiths. 6 or 8 weeks of roughly 20 possesion games with 2 or 3 goals thrown in at coburg .or 6 or 8 weeks at richmond scrapping for the odd touch.
Griffiths is a bad example. He did what he was in the side to do last season, to take his opponent away from Riewoldt's area so he was one out. He did a great job and the team results back that up.
Someone I know spoke to him and he said it was hard to stop himself from chasing possessions, under instruction.
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Both Miller and Hislop will be a waste of space. Can't believe we rookied either!
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He was a lone key forward for us last night
I expect better results when Riewoldt plays
(if he even gets promoted)
i hope not tbh - bc if hes playing alongside reiwoldt it means griff/post/vickery arent getting a run as the 2nd tall. Lets hope he stays down at coburg where he belongs "coaching" the young guys
would have thought it was pretty clear vickery is not ready for senior footy. griffiths is coming of shoulders and may not play early season. the post man may play as a pinch hitting ruckman.
unlike some i dont have a problem with young talls developing in the ressies especially when they show they arent really ready for the ones.
again i will ask it of supporters. what is better for say a bloke like griffiths. 6 or 8 weeks of roughly 20 possesion games with 2 or 3 goals thrown in at coburg .or 6 or 8 weeks at richmond scrapping for the odd touch.
people seem to think 1st and second yr talls are just going to waltz in and get senior games and its going to be good for development.
it is not the way it works in most cases. for sure give em a few senior games here and there but let them develop where they probably belong for now.
some supporters still dont get it - its not called waltzing into the side, its called a development plan: give them blocks of 5-6 games in a row to get a taste then send them back to the burgers to work on the deficiencies that were exposed at the highest level. This is how you develop players at afl level. Post 5-6 weeks, Vickery 5-6 weeks , griff 5-6 weeks - thats almost a season right there - 5-6 games and 15 at the burgers working on weaknesses = development
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again i will ask it of supporters. what is better for say a bloke like griffiths. 6 or 8 weeks of roughly 20 possesion games with 2 or 3 goals thrown in at coburg .or 6 or 8 weeks at richmond scrapping for the odd touch.
Griffiths is a bad example. He did what he was in the side to do last season, to take his opponent away from Riewoldt's area so he was one out. He did a great job and the team results back that up.
Someone I know spoke to him and he said it was hard to stop himself from chasing possessions, under instruction.
no i disagree griffiths is a perfect example.
he wasnt drafted as a decoy he was drafted to make an impact just like riewoldt. for the good of the team in the long term. we have to have more than just jack and a decoy.
griffiths job is to take marks get it on the lead have a physical presence and kick goals. weeks on end of hardly touching the ball in games can only be bad for his development.
a damn good guide and building block to seniors would be griffiths actually playing well at the lower level before being thrown in the deep end.
if miller playing half a season means griffiths can grow as a player at coburg and actually develop or it allows him to actually dominate at the lower level and show hes ready so be it.
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He was a lone key forward for us last night
I expect better results when Riewoldt plays
(if he even gets promoted)
i hope not tbh - bc if hes playing alongside reiwoldt it means griff/post/vickery arent getting a run as the 2nd tall. Lets hope he stays down at coburg where he belongs "coaching" the young guys
would have thought it was pretty clear vickery is not ready for senior footy. griffiths is coming of shoulders and may not play early season. the post man may play as a pinch hitting ruckman.
unlike some i dont have a problem with young talls developing in the ressies especially when they show they arent really ready for the ones.
again i will ask it of supporters. what is better for say a bloke like griffiths. 6 or 8 weeks of roughly 20 possesion games with 2 or 3 goals thrown in at coburg .or 6 or 8 weeks at richmond scrapping for the odd touch.
people seem to think 1st and second yr talls are just going to waltz in and get senior games and its going to be good for development.
it is not the way it works in most cases. for sure give em a few senior games here and there but let them develop where they probably belong for now.
some supporters still dont get it - its not called waltzing into the side, its called a development plan: give them blocks of 5-6 games in a row to get a taste then send them back to the burgers to work on the deficiencies that were exposed at the highest level. This is how you develop players at afl level. Post 5-6 weeks, Vickery 5-6 weeks , griff 5-6 weeks - thats almost a season right there - 5-6 games and 15 at the burgers working on weaknesses = development
yep agree and have never said anything different.in fact its a popint i have labored on big time over the yrs. but at some stage those young guys have to show they deserve a game by getting a bit of it at coburg. there are stages where players development is better served actually having an impact at lower levels.
atm i would not be giving vickery a senior game until he shows enough at coburg. hes been given a real good go blind freddy can see his development would be better served for now at coburg. hes miles away. thats not to say he cant be given a block of games later in the season.
imo griffiths is in the same boat. he got 5 games late last yr and hardly got a sniff.hes come off more shoulder problems it wont hurt one little bit for him to start in the twos this yr.after all hes still got another 4 yrs of developing to do.
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he wasnt drafted as a decoy he was drafted to make an impact just like riewoldt. for the good of the team in the long term. we have to have more than just jack and a decoy.
griffiths job is to take marks get it on the lead have a physical presence and kick goals. weeks on end of hardly touching the ball in games can only be bad for his development.
Of course he was drafted to make an impact. In his first few games his job was to keep his opponent out of Riewoldt's space. He showed good discipline.
He was learning to play for the team and sacrifice his own game. Surely that's development.
With all due respect, I think Hardwick and his assistants know a bit more how to develop an AFL footballer than you do.
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You'll learn about Claw, Forbesy.
He's our god :bow
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he wasnt drafted as a decoy he was drafted to make an impact just like riewoldt. for the good of the team in the long term. we have to have more than just jack and a decoy.
griffiths job is to take marks get it on the lead have a physical presence and kick goals. weeks on end of hardly touching the ball in games can only be bad for his development.
Of course he was drafted to make an impact. In his first few games his job was to keep his opponent out of Riewoldt's space. He showed good discipline.
He was learning to play for the team and sacrifice his own game. Surely that's development.
With all due respect, I think Hardwick and his assistants know a bit more how to develop an AFL footballer than you do.
now that is just gobbldygook.
jacks performance with or without griffiths in the side was pretty consistent.
the simple fact was griffiths struggled big time to get his hands on the ball. the simple truth is two or three possesions a game every game is not good for development. it must just shatter confidence.without a doubt griffiths needed to be dropped when he got injured.
and i sure as hell hope hardwick and his crew know more about development than me. but i hoped that with wallace and before him frawley. i dont think hardwick can lay claim to developing one richmond player just yet. how good he and his crew are at that wont be known for a few seasons yet.
weather hardwick knows better or not it should not exclude us from useing a bit of common sense in discussing our players.
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Both Miller and Hislop will be a waste of space. Can't believe we rookied either!
Yeah shame.
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Another example of why we need our own reserves team. Sometimes the opportunity just isn't there to develop our players how we see fit at the lower level and the only place to do it is the seniors. This can clearly have a detrimental effect on development. Well and truly time to stuff Coburg off before we stuff up another bunch of young talent. Donate to the FTF ;)
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And yet he is one of the very few Richmond players in the last 150 years to not lose a game
he wasnt drafted as a decoy he was drafted to make an impact just like riewoldt. for the good of the team in the long term. we have to have more than just jack and a decoy.
griffiths job is to take marks get it on the lead have a physical presence and kick goals. weeks on end of hardly touching the ball in games can only be bad for his development.
Of course he was drafted to make an impact. In his first few games his job was to keep his opponent out of Riewoldt's space. He showed good discipline.
He was learning to play for the team and sacrifice his own game. Surely that's development.
With all due respect, I think Hardwick and his assistants know a bit more how to develop an AFL footballer than you do.
now that is just gobbldygook.
jacks performance with or without griffiths in the side was pretty consistent.
the simple fact was griffiths struggled big time to get his hands on the ball. the simple truth is two or three possesions a game every game is not good for development. it must just shatter confidence.without a doubt griffiths needed to be dropped when he got injured.
and i sure as hell hope hardwick and his crew know more about development than me. but i hoped that with wallace and before him frawley. i dont think hardwick can lay claim to developing one richmond player just yet. how good he and his crew are at that wont be known for a few seasons yet.
weather hardwick knows better or not it should not exclude us from useing a bit of common sense in discussing our players.
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Both Miller and Hislop will be a waste of space. Can't believe we rookied either!
Amen! Miller is too slow and is out of the play as soon as the ball spills in the marking contest. Hurry back Jack :pray
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Witches hat.
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Witches hat.
A rubbish witches hat is described by it's peers as a brad miller.
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If you read back through this thread and others you'll know I was dead against this... however if he in anyway has anything to do with the improving signs Vickery is showing as a key fwd (we keep hearing about the playing coach role he has) then he's already paid his way for mine. Of course it could all just be coincidence :)
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You'll learn about Claw, Forbesy.
He's our god :bow
nope god is always right. im just mostly right.
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Miller promoted to senior list
by Adrian Ceddia
richmondfc.com.au
4:05 PM Tue 15 Mar, 2011
Richmond mature-aged recruit, Brad Miller, has been elevated to the senior playing list ahead of the 2011 season.
Miller, 27, was taken by the Tigers as a mature-aged rookie in the December draft last year following a 133-game career at Melbourne, where he kicked 89 goals.
He played in three of Richmond’s pre-season matches and was among the best in the win against Port Adelaide at Alice Springs, kicking two goals.
The Tigers’ General Manager of Football, Craig Cameron, said Miller would offer valuable assistance to the Club’s young forwards.
“With Ben Griffiths not quite ready to return from a shoulder injury, we believe Brad will give us another option in the forward half.
“Brad has the experience at the highest level, which will help fast-track the development of our young players, like Jayden Post and Ty Vickery.
“He has been an excellent addition to our playing group. His leadership skills are outstanding.”
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/109345/default.aspx
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Richmond mature-aged recruit, Brad Miller, has been elevated to the senior playing list ahead of the 2011 season.
Miller, 27, was taken by the Tigers as a mature-aged rookie in the December draft last year following a 133-game career at Melbourne, where he kicked 89 goals.
He played in three of Richmond’s pre-season matches and was among the best in the win against Port Adelaide at Alice Springs, kicking two goals.
The Tigers’ General Manager of Football, Craig Cameron, said Miller would offer valuable assistance to the Club’s young forwards.
“With Ben Griffiths not quite ready to return from a shoulder injury, we believe Brad will give us another option in the forward half.
“Brad has the experience at the highest level, which will help fast-track the development of our young players, like Jayden Post and Ty Vickery.
“He has been an excellent addition to our playing group. His leadership skills are outstanding.”
Richmond passed up the opportunity to enlist a player from its rookie training squad, which consisted of Mitch Keddell, Travis Casserly and Liam Corrie.
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/109345/default.aspx
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Hurts Contins chances.
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There is still one spot...
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There is still one spot...
Yeah I hope they are planning on using it somewhere along the line - would like to see Contin get a chance
There will so many on here happy with the Miller decision ;D
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Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it.
What a bloody joke.
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“He has been an excellent addition to our playing group. His leadership skills are outstanding.”
Must be the first player in history recruited for his 'leadership skills'. eff me. :banghead
Two steps forward, one step back.
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Cant understand this.
I can handle him there as a rookie for back up reasons but this is a little premature i would have thought.
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Hurts Contins chances.
he needs to play himself into the side, that is leather poisoning ea hitout...he played the pre season at Coburg, not good enough I would have thought ::)
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(http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/5351832/2/istockphoto_5351832-traffic-cone-on-asphalt.jpg)
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Can't understand it. Vickery has finally shown something this preseason and Post came back in and played well. Miller has barely fired a shot in 4 games and he gets promoted? And that is going to help develop our young talls how? By taking games off them? stuff me dead Dimma
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Official 1st black mark against the club. This is a short cut.
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C'mon Guy's, he's only been promoted to the main list, at least give him a game or two before be bag the poo out of him.....If were going to judge players from there pre season form we won't be fielding a side next week!
Chill people, Chill...........
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Great move I say. :thumbsup
Great bloke who will make a big difference
Can play !
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Official 1st black mark against the club. This is a short cut.
How is it a short cut?
He is hardly going to win games for us off his own boot.
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Great move I say. :thumbsup
Great bloke who will make a big difference
Can play !
I would have thought that you would be against it Jacko!
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The bloke can play
You obviously havent noticed some of the retards we still have on our list,LOL. ::)
The club really lack mature players as well.
I wish Brad all the best, hope he kicks a bag Round 1 ;)
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give the bloke a chance, honestly what would the masses know...probably the same punters that declared krak wouldn't be any good :lol
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Official 1st black mark against the club. This is a short cut.
How is it a short cut?
He is hardly going to win games for us off his own boot.
Why are we elevating him to our senior list
To play him?
Why else would you do it?
Why play him when we have other younger options on our list?
He has had 9 years on an AFL list.
We dont need on field coaches, that went out in the 60s
I'm not advocating proven mediocrity on the playing field
I'm frankly a bit fed up with people twisting logic to justify this short sighted type of decision making which is ingrained in our football club
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Kicked 10 goals in his last VFL game last year
We wouldnt have a player who would kick 10 in a season at Coburg. ::)
Unfortunately our club has been and continues to be hurt by not so good drafting of young players.
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Kicked 10 goals in his last VFL game last year
We wouldnt have a player who would kick 10 in a season at Coburg. ::)
Unfortunately our club has been and continues to be hurt by not so good drafting of young players.
While I don't totally disagree with that comment (I hold some hope for our younger players to be properly developed this time) we don't need to hurt the club by not so good drafting of older players as well!!! :help
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I actually don't think he'll play up forward against Carlton.
I think he'll play up back. With no Kel Moore in the backline would rather go in with Miller Astbury and McGuane
than with McGuane as our most expreienced tall. :help
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will play forward you will find
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give the bloke a chance, honestly what would the masses know...probably the same punters that declared krak wouldn't be any good :lol
Can we send Miller to jail? Maybe it'll give him a kick up the arse too.
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give the bloke a chance, honestly what would the masses know...probably the same punters that declared krak wouldn't be any good :lol
Can we send Miller to jail? Maybe it'll give him a kick up the behind too.
Ok I'll take Pia while he is in the slammer. ;D
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i'll slammer too
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Official 1st black mark against the club. This is a short cut.
How is it a short cut?
He is hardly going to win games for us off his own boot.
Why are we elevating him to our senior list
To play him?
Why else would you do it?
Why play him when we have other younger options on our list?
He has had 9 years on an AFL list.
We dont need on field coaches, that went out in the 60s
I'm not advocating proven mediocrity on the playing field
I'm frankly a bit fed up with people twisting logic to justify this short sighted type of decision making which is ingrained in our football club
You still havnt explained how it is a short cut?
put it this way.
Would you prefer to play Miller, an average player who has the body and understands the game plan and works hard;
or;
Griffiths before he, or more partucularly his shoulders, are fit and able to handle the rigours?
or post, who seems to out of favour supposedly due to his work ethic, ie he is not working hard enough?
or any young tall who looks out of his depth and is having his confidence eroded week by week?
Miller wont keep the young guys out of the team if they earn it. He will though ensure they earn their spot.
That can only be a long term benefit, at the expense of short term game (results this year).
That is not a short cut!
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Miller had to be elevated if he's insurance.
If a key forward misses a couple of weeks he wouldn't be able to fill in if he wasn't elevated already.
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Kicked 10 goals in his last VFL game last year
We wouldnt have a player who would kick 10 in a season at Coburg. ::)
Umm Schulz did & has been kicking bags for Port Power yet it never stopped you poobagging him.
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Miller had to be elevated if he's insurance.
If a key forward misses a couple of weeks he wouldn't be able to fill in if he wasn't elevated already.
With Jack, Vickery, Taylor, Post & Griffiths, even Astbury we have enough players to play as key forward if required.
I didn't mind having Miller on the rookie list as insurance in case of a long term injury to one of our key forwards, but I DO NOT agree with him being elevated off the rookie list for the entire season. They are valuable games that should be going to our young forwards.
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That's assuming he'll play ahead of our young forwards. Since picking him up all talk from the club has been that will not be the case.
It looks as though Griffiths will not play for a while.
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Brad Miller's keen on Tiger pride
* Jon Ralph
* From: Herald Sun
* March 16, 2011
RICHMOND rookie Brad Miller says he is desperate to make his debut for the Tigers in front of 80,000 fans at next week's season opener against Carlton.
Miller was transformed from last-ditch insurance policy into a realistic chance for Round 1 after becoming the Tigers' nominated rookie.
It means he is free to play every game this year, only months after he thought his AFL career was over when he was delisted by Melbourne.
With fellow Richmond tall Tyrone Vickery likely to spend time in the ruck against Carlton, Miller is a legitimate chance to take on the Blues at the MCG next Thursday.
"Whether or not I get picked I will have to wait and see, but I would love to play Round 1. It would be amazing," Miller said.
"All the boys have told me during the whole pre-season about the Tiger faithful and it's something I have never experienced. They are such passionate supporters, so to play in front of 80,000 of them in Round 1 at the MCG would be really special."
The club stressed when it recruited him, it would not jeopardise the development of its young talls.
But with David Astbury being used as a defender, Vickery still raw, and Ben Griffiths returning from a shoulder injury, Miller is a chance to play regularly.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/richmodn-promotes-brad-miller-to-senior-list/story-e6frf9jf-1226021906975
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Effing great. :banghead
What's wrong with playing post at FF?
One of our few good players against Adelaide.
Not happy >:(
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but I DO NOT agree with him being elevated off the rookie list for the entire season. They are valuable games that should be going to our young forwards.
Who said he's going to be there the entire season
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Kicked 10 goals in his last VFL game last year
We wouldnt have a player who would kick 10 in a season at Coburg. ::)
Umm Schulz did & has been kicking bags for Port Power yet it never stopped you poobagging him.
Beat me to it. Schulz kicked 10 in a VFL game a few years back. Get your facts right Jack ;D
Miller ;D
:rollin
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Effing great. :banghead
What's wrong with playing post at FF?
One of our few good players against Adelaide.
Not happy >:(
Perhaps he is lazy and doesnt work hard enough to satisfy the coaching staff?
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Last year we had the same young KPs playing without an experienced big body down there and it didn't worry the coaches
This year those young KPs are all 12mths older and one is the Coleman medalist and now we need an old horse as back up?
Doesn't wash
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Yeap. Reaks of Craig Cameron
:shh
:lol
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Hope he kicks 5 and tears the Blues a new one :shh
Miller's role is to step up when the younger forwards are not able to, for whatever reason. You don't play a kid who is recovering from injury or lacking match fitness /confidence in Round 1 when you have another option on your list who is better suited (be that option a mature aged rookie or otherwise). ;)
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Last year we had the same young KPs playing without an experienced big body down there and it didn't worry the coaches
This year those young KPs are all 12mths older and one is the Coleman medalist and now we need an old horse as back up?
Doesn't wash
Polak last year.
Promoted before round 1, only played 3 games.
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Polak was a fragile 25yr old that had played 2 games of AFL in 18 months and was still recovering from brain damage ::)
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but I DO NOT agree with him being elevated off the rookie list for the entire season. They are valuable games that should be going to our young forwards.
Who said he's going to be there the entire season
If he's promoted prior to the season to replace our lack of veterans then he is on the list for the entire season
Just like Polak & Roberts were last year
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Hope he kicks 5 and tears the Blues a new one :shh
Miller's role is to step up when the younger forwards are not able to, for whatever reason. You don't play a kid who is recovering from injury or lacking match fitness /confidence in Round 1 when you have another option on your list who is better suited (be that option a mature aged rookie or otherwise). ;)
Great post :thumbsup
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Hope he kicks 5 and tears the Blues a new one :shh
On the other hand, if he plays like he usually does he'll help the Blues tear us a new(er) one...
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If Miller plays it tells us that our young talls are either not developing or they're just not good enough.
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Or it may tell us his mother is part wolf and his father was a cobbler of note
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If Miller plays it tells us that our young talls are either not developing or they're just not good enough.
It doesn't tell us either of those things. Griffiths is unable to play as he is injured. Post doesn't have the stamina to run out a full game, Miller does. When both Griff and Post are up and about, Miller will be kicking his goals at Coburg. ;D
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Miller admitted on the wireless this morning that the reason he has been promoted to the senior list is because of Griffiths not being ready for another 5-6 weeks. He said that if Griff had been ready it was unlikely he would have been promoted
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The only thing that matters to me is he is one of us now and should get all our support! I hope he does play against the Blues and plays well. We need all the help we can get!
People will forget pretty quickly.
Good luck to the bloke....
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The only thing that matters to me is he is one of us now and should get all our support! I hope he does play against the Blues and plays well. We need all the help we can get!
People will forget pretty quickly.
Good luck to the bloke....
Yep. :thumbsup
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It's players in situations where they know that if things were different they wouldn't be in those situations in the first place, that in some cases exceed all expectations and forge more than serviceable contributions. I wish the boy all the best. :thumbsup
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Brad Miller interview after the game:
http://bigpondvideo.com/RichmondTV/350906/post-match-brad-miller/
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for the first time on Saturday night i saw Miller's value to our team.
I watched him closely take opposition out of the contest on several occasions.
He certainly deserves his spot in the team until someone else steps up. i.e Griffiths
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I bow with acquiescence to the footy department on this call. I openly admit I was wrongly dead against it but from day dot its obvious Miller has a footy brain - the way he's added structure to our setup is very noticeable. This can only be good for the young guys like Tyrone, Griffiths and Post.
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for the first time on Saturday night i saw Miller's value to our team.
I watched him closely take opposition out of the contest on several occasions.
He certainly deserves his spot in the team until someone else steps up. i.e Griffiths
Brad Miller is still a very good footballer, is footy smart.
Adds structure and the younger players respect ''Milsy""
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Both Miller and Hislop will be a waste of space. Can't believe we rookied either!
Amen! Miller is too slow and is out of the play as soon as the ball spills in the marking contest. Hurry back Jack :pray
Mightytiges :nope
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with the outrageous posts you have made at times jacko I wouldn't be dredging up other people's old posts to rub their face in it :-X
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with the outrageous posts you have made at times jacko I wouldn't be dredging up other people's old posts to rub their face in it :-X
outrageous is a bit strong, LOL Tongue in cheek more like it . :gotigers
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with the outrageous posts you have made at times jacko I wouldn't be dredging up other people's old posts to rub their face in it :-X
outrageous is a bit strong, LOL Tongue in cheek more like it . :gotigers
:lol
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Mr pia miller is not a very good footballer.
It'd be very sad is none of post. Griffiths. Vickery. Astbury. Gourdis. Pushing hard for millers 2nd
or 3rd Spot in the forward line come round 22. IMO.
for the first time on Saturday night i saw Miller's value to our team.
I watched him closely take opposition out of the contest on several occasions.
He certainly deserves his spot in the team until someone else steps up. i.e Griffiths
Brad Miller is still a very good footballer, is footy smart.
Adds structure and the younger players respect ''Milsy""
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Both Miller and Hislop will be a waste of space. Can't believe we rookied either!
Amen! Miller is too slow and is out of the play as soon as the ball spills in the marking contest. Hurry back Jack :pray
Mightytiges :nope
Jackstar :yep
The coaching staff should remember they brought Miller to the club as back-up and he was meant to be playing at Coburg to help onfield with the development of our cubs. He should not be in our 22 when other younger options are available and especially so after last night's "effort". Bring back Postie and time to remember we are rebuilding and meant to be getting gametime into our younger players rather than 27 y.o. VFL standard footballers.
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MILLER HAS BEen good for us, and has earned his spot
its not millers fault they picked him to play in humid 30 degree heat as soon as he recovered from the flu
bloody poor selection
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He is an exposed hack. Plain and simple.
Nearly every positive thing anyone has to say about him isn't to do with the primary objectives of a key forward.
He is a great team man, a leader, does great things of the ball, blocks, shepherds, trains well.......etc
Maybe I'm way off, but I like my key forwards strengths to be that they mark the footy and kick goals.
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Both Miller and Hislop will be a waste of space. Can't believe we rookied either!
Amen! Miller is too slow and is out of the play as soon as the ball spills in the marking contest. Hurry back Jack :pray
Mightytiges :nope
Jackstar :yep
The coaching staff should remember they brought Miller to the club as back-up and he was meant to be playing at Coburg to help onfield with the development of our cubs. He should not be in our 22 when other younger options are available and especially so after last night's "effort". Bring back Postie and time to remember we are rebuilding and meant to be getting gametime into our younger players rather than 27 y.o. VFL standard footballers.
I think it's pretty obvious that Post is not playing in a manner the coaching staff are happy with.
So if he doesnt do the work required, what statement does it send if you play him over someone who does do what the coaches ask.
playing players based on raw ability alone will not create a work ethic/culture required to be successful.
The ball is fairly in Posts court and it's up to him to demand selection over Miller. If he can do this he will become a player worth having.
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Shouldn't be playing if he can't kick goals 15 meters out on a 45 degree angle.
That's not leadership, thats just poo.
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Both Miller and Hislop will be a waste of space. Can't believe we rookied either!
Amen! Miller is too slow and is out of the play as soon as the ball spills in the marking contest. Hurry back Jack :pray
Mightytiges :nope
Jackstar :yep
The coaching staff should remember they brought Miller to the club as back-up and he was meant to be playing at Coburg to help onfield with the development of our cubs. He should not be in our 22 when other younger options are available and especially so after last night's "effort". Bring back Postie and time to remember we are rebuilding and meant to be getting gametime into our younger players rather than 27 y.o. VFL standard footballers.
I think it's pretty obvious that Post is not playing in a manner the coaching staff are happy with.
So if he doesnt do the work required, what statement does it send if you play him over someone who does do what the coaches ask.
playing players based on raw ability alone will not create a work ethic/culture required to be successful.
The ball is fairly in Posts court and it's up to him to demand selection over Miller. If he can do this he will become a player worth having.
watched Post yesterday, was ordinary to say the least
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Yep watched Post closely yesterday too...Is a wonderful mark and has good skills...But unfortunetely to paraphrase jack dyer.."is where the ball aint"all too often.
As far as Miller is concerned i dont mind him..I think he attacks the ball well and adds structure to our team...However his kicking at goal makes me pull my hair out
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Millers goal kicking is a worry
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Millers goal kicking is a worry
GRIFFITHS
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MILLER HAS BEen good for us, and has earned his spot
its not millers fault they picked him to play in humid 30 degree heat as soon as he recovered from the flu
bloody poor selection
Don't kid yourself or believe for a moment that it was humid. That is the biggest load of crap floating around the media articles from the game. Couldn't have been less humid, the weather was much much much more mild than Freo vs Saints earlier in the day. Absolute horsesh1te to think that humidity had any role in what happened. The dew on the ground however....................
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Both Miller and Hislop will be a waste of space. Can't believe we rookied either!
Amen! Miller is too slow and is out of the play as soon as the ball spills in the marking contest. Hurry back Jack :pray
Mightytiges :nope
Jackstar :yep
The coaching staff should remember they brought Miller to the club as back-up and he was meant to be playing at Coburg to help onfield with the development of our cubs. He should not be in our 22 when other younger options are available and especially so after last night's "effort". Bring back Postie and time to remember we are rebuilding and meant to be getting gametime into our younger players rather than 27 y.o. VFL standard footballers.
I think it's pretty obvious that Post is not playing in a manner the coaching staff are happy with.
So if he doesnt do the work required, what statement does it send if you play him over someone who does do what the coaches ask.
playing players based on raw ability alone will not create a work ethic/culture required to be successful.
The ball is fairly in Posts court and it's up to him to demand selection over Miller. If he can do this he will become a player worth having.
watched Post yesterday, was ordinary to say the least
Post is still only 21 and he didn't have only 4 possies (like 27 y.o. Miller did) when he was dropped after the Essendon game (Post had 12 disp., 5 marks, 5 hitouts). Postie is still got a lot to learn but at least he can play as a mobile forward, back (especially as we were missing Grimes) and chip-hit in the ruck at stoppages. The Miller experiment/insurance isn't required now with Jack and Vickery being the two main tall forward goalkickers. Postie should get another shot and after a couple weeks if he is coming along then Griffiths will be ready by then to come in.
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Something about Post's efforts are not impressing the coaching staff. That's the difference. You simply dont pick players on ability alone but take into consideration work ethic and ability to play to instruction. Otherwise you will stay in the mire we have for the last 30 years.
The old adage that a champion team will beat a team of champions still, and always will, ring true.
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Something about Post's efforts are not impressing the coaching staff. That's the difference. You simply dont pick players on ability alone but take into consideration work ethic and ability to play to instruction. Otherwise you will stay in the mire we have for the last 30 years.
The old adage that a champion team will beat a team of champions still, and always will, ring true.
nailed it right there al, your first sentence (to borrow a line from jackstar) is FACT :thumbsup
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Was Miller's worse game on Sat night. Got in the way of blokes who had the run of it lost it when he had it and everything he touched turned to mush. He has added structure to us but I guess Sat night's game was just the worse case scenario for him many others and the club. Move on. Bring on Sydney.
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I don't buy the 'structure' argument that people are using to justify keeping Miller in the side.
If by 'structure', people mean 'a tall that can bring the ball to ground level at around the 40m mark and take some attention from our No.3 tall', then OK I get it, but sheesh it's not hard, even Hislop can give you that and he gives you a bit more at ground level.
The 'structure' is provided by the coach, it's a role, not a player, and as MT says Post should be given the chance at that role now then Griffiths when he is ready.
Whilst I appreciate his efforts in filling the role when needed, it does have to be said; Miller is as slow as treacle, he looks big, but he has got custard arms and a jelly heart, and if the ball is under his waist, forget it. One of the worst kicks in the comp. Drop him.
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I don't buy the 'structure' argument that people are using to justify keeping Miller in the side.
If by 'structure', people mean 'a tall that can bring the ball to ground level at around the 40m mark and take some attention from our No.3 tall', then OK I get it, but sheesh it's not hard, even Hislop can give you that and he gives you a bit more at ground level.
The 'structure' is provided by the coach, it's a role, not a player, and as MT says Post should be given the chance at that role now then Griffiths when he is ready.
Whilst I appreciate his efforts in filling the role when needed, it does have to be said; Miller is as slow as treacle, he looks big, but he has got custard arms and a jelly heart, and if the ball is under his waist, forget it. One of the worst kicks in the comp. Drop him.
:clapping
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Agree DCrane. Time to shelve the 'insurance'.
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Cant wait til Giff is good to go.
Got high hopes for that big SOB :thumbsup
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I don't buy the 'structure' argument that people are using to justify keeping Miller in the side.
If by 'structure', people mean 'a tall that can bring the ball to ground level at around the 40m mark and take some attention from our No.3 tall', then OK I get it, but sheesh it's not hard, even Hislop can give you that and he gives you a bit more at ground level.
The 'structure' is provided by the coach, it's a role, not a player, and as MT says Post should be given the chance at that role now then Griffiths when he is ready.
Whilst I appreciate his efforts in filling the role when needed, it does have to be said; Miller is as slow as treacle, he looks big, but he has got custard arms and a jelly heart, and if the ball is under his waist, forget it. One of the worst kicks in the comp. Drop him.
believe it or not there is actually an art to being able to open up the forward line and give your spearhead some much needed space. Many rookies/raw young players take a few years to learn the correct pattern running.
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Cant wait til Giff is good to go.
Got high hopes for that big SOB :thumbsup
yes me too. Can't wait till he plays for us this year. IMO we should bring him asap.
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Miller as a 2nd banana tall forward is 13th in the comp. as far as goalscoring averaging 1.0 goals per game and 10th in disposals at 10.8 per game.
http://mp3.news.com.au/hwt/Key%20forwards.pdf (http://mp3.news.com.au/hwt/Key%20forwards.pdf)
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Miller as a 2nd banana tall forward is 13th in the comp. as far as goalscoring averaging 1.0 goals per game and 10th in disposals at 10.8 per game.
http://mp3.news.com.au/hwt/Key%20forwards.pdf (http://mp3.news.com.au/hwt/Key%20forwards.pdf)
Experiment over.
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Experiment over.
:yep
Back to young player development and forget about the win/loss record. 2011 was not about making finals.
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more like target the stuff out of pre existing ruckmen and backs
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Yep all the best Pia.
Miller to finish off the year in the 2's at best.
Vickery is our 2nd forward now anyway. Post even Gourdis can play a 3rd forward. I'd even give Tuck a forward role.
Must be very frustrating for Shane to see Miller play ahead of him.
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Said it all year, no expert but he is a spaz
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Hardwick first shortcut?
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how is it a short cut?
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No shortcut I can see what they were trying to do but I think Post has shown enough in the 2s to suggest that he can play Millers role.
Miller can't play down back, at least Gourdis and Post can swing if need be.
Miller was brought in incase Vickery went down and we had no key forward except Jack and his development would have stopped if he was triple teamed every week.
Vickery has improved enough to take the 2nd forward role confidently. Miller as a 3rd tall is no longer needed now that Posts form in the VFL suggests he deserves 2-3 games in the 1s.
Annoyed Tuck wasn't given a forward role like Millers.
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Experiment over.
:yep
Back to young player development and forget about the win/loss record. 2011 was not about making finals.
Agree.
BTW same goes for Tucky. He too should see out the year at Coburg.
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There's a difference between Miller and a bloke who has finished top 3 in our B&F 3 times. if Grigg or someone else gets injured/dropped then Tuck should be considered (if his form at Coburg is good enough).
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Dimma in last night's press conference about Miller - "He was good. Kicked 2-3 goals I think. He's been worth his weight in gold to us."
Guess who will remain in the team until the end of the year :-\.
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Dimma in last night's press conference about Miller - "He was good. Kicked 2-3 goals I think. He's been worth his weight in gold to us."
Guess who will remain in the team until the end of the year :-\.
he kicked 2 and one of them you can't really count.
I agree with everything that Dimma has done so far except for playing Miller. Bring on Griffiths!
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His overall kicking for goal is very disappointing despite the nice banana last night, he misses some sitters and it drives me to despair
Should be able to do better
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Agree about his kicking for goal....have zero confidence when he lines up.
However I believe players like Post and Astbury (before he was injured) have not been consistant enough to command Millers spot.
No point playing Griffiths until he is 100 % match fit.
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Agree about his kicking for goal....have zero confidence when he lines up.
However I believe players like Post and Astbury (before he was injured) have not been consistant enough to command Millers spot.
No point playing Griffiths until he is 100 % match fit.
All good points, if Miller was so bad someone should have pushed him out of the side, Post Astbury or even Morton or Gourdis
waiting for big Ben to come on
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Miller was brought to the club & playing so that players like Griffiths can fully recover & to keep the developement of the team going.
His doing his role nicely & until others push him out he wont be left out of the side.
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Agree about his kicking for goal....have zero confidence when he lines up.
However I believe players like Post and Astbury (before he was injured) have not been consistant enough to command Millers spot.
No point playing Griffiths until he is 100 % match fit.
All good points, if Miller was so bad someone should have pushed him out of the side, Post Astbury or even Morton or Gourdis
waiting for big Ben to come on
;D posted same time nearly the same, :thumbsup
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Just wish he would start kicking straight
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agree on the kicking. in fairness though, there was a lot of easy goals missed last night.
Dimma in last night's press conference about Miller - "He was good. Kicked 2-3 goals I think. He's been worth his weight in gold to us."
Guess who will remain in the team until the end of the year :-\.
It will be interesting to see what happens if griffiths starts to show some good form at coburg.
I think i would be dissapointed if griffith's form started to command a game and miller kept him out.
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Miller was brought to the club & playing so that players like Griffiths can fully recover & to keep the developement of the team going.
His doing his role nicely & until others push him out he wont be left out of the side.
gourdis was bog for coburg win today.
Why not play gourdis postion untill griffs is fit an ready.
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Miller was brought to the club & playing so that players like Griffiths can fully recover & to keep the developement of the team going.
His doing his role nicely & until others push him out he wont be left out of the side.
gourdis was bog for coburg win today.
Why not play gourdis postion untill griffs is fit an ready.
Gee I don't know perhaps because Miller and Griffiths are forwards and Gourdis is a defender
Why would you bring in a defender to replace a forward
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Miller was brought to the club & playing so that players like Griffiths can fully recover & to keep the developement of the team going.
His doing his role nicely & until others push him out he wont be left out of the side.
gourdis was bog for coburg win today.
Why not play gourdis postion untill griffs is fit an ready.
Gee I don't know perhaps because Miller and Griffiths are forwards and Gourdis is a defender
Why would you bring in a defender to replace a forward
well that would be silly :lol
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Post to the forward line. Gourdis back. Miller out.
Miller was brought to the club & playing so that players like Griffiths can fully recover & to keep the developement of the team going.
His doing his role nicely & until others push him out he wont be left out of the side.
gourdis was bog for coburg win today.
Why not play gourdis postion untill griffs is fit an ready.
Gee I don't know perhaps because Miller and Griffiths are forwards and Gourdis is a defender
Why would you bring in a defender to replace a forward
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Why would you bring in a defender to replace a forward
Because the forward is a hack and you could replace him with a salt shaker and get a lift.
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Why would you bring in a defender to replace a forward
Because the forward is a hack and you could replace him with a salt shaker and get a lift.
He could be sliced ham but he wont get dropped especially for this week's game ;D
Besides the coaches love him and he is playing the role they want him too
Finally I don't think we can afford to have Post & Gourdis in the same team right at the minute, too similar in their decision making (read too reactive at times)
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What does everyone think of McGuane missing a few weeks with a virus to be replaced by Gourdis?
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What does everyone think of McGuane missing a few weeks with a virus to be replaced by Gourdis?
Couldn't do any worse.
:thumbsup
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miller and mcgaune as bookends are not much better options to gourdis. Post.
Why would you bring in a defender to replace a forward
Because the forward is a hack and you could replace him with a salt shaker and get a lift.
He could be sliced ham but he wont get dropped especially for this week's game ;D
Besides the coaches love him and he is playing the role they want him too
Finally I don't think we can afford to have Post & Gourdis in the same team right at the minute, too similar in their decision making (read too reactive at times)
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Not not play anymore.
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thought Miller was ok today
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thought Miller was ok today
your kidding yourself jacko.
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thought Miller was ok today
:gobdrop
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thought Miller was ok today
your kidding yourself jacko.
well he was used a the 2nd ruck against Jamar,
And did create contests when we wenrt forward, lot worse them him out there
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nope time to move out and bring griff or post in, goes to ground way too often and fails to take enough marks and have shots on goal...he would need to produce twice his current output to keep his spot in the side...easy decision for mine
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thought Miller was ok today
Infamy's sig sums it up
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thought Miller was ok today
really? I couldn't stop thinking how much I'd rather see schultz at
chf and farmer & miller not wearing rixhmond. Jumpers.
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Man if he is not dropped this week, waste of space has been all along. You dudes with your structure, never heard a worse excuse to have such a spaz in a team! May as well look to the future NOW.
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Look at Jack Watts now. Now they took the decision to get rid of some senior duds led by Miller and are reaping the dividends now.
Il say it again. I would rather we lose with Griffiths, unless he is still injured, than persist with Miller.
LMFAO at the word structure.
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thought Miller was ok today
really? I couldn't stop thinking how much I'd rather see schultz at
chf and farmer & miller not wearing rixhmond. Jumpers.
Farmer? he wasn't bad today, kicked two nice goals and layed great tackles. Yes he makes the odd mistake but all players do even our Captain & Cotch. Agree with Miller, time for him to dropped back to Coburg. Bring in big Griff. McGuane is the big concern for me at the moment, he has been absolutely horrible the last few weeks. Lucky we have injured key backs at the moment otherwise he would be at Coburg as well. We need to poach a Ruckman as our ruck stocks are lacking big time. Jamar's tapwork was too good and this unfortunately is a common theme.
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thought Miller was ok today
really? I couldn't stop thinking how much I'd rather see schultz at
chf and farmer & miller not wearing rixhmond. Jumpers.
Farmer? he wasn't bad today, kicked two nice goals and layed great tackles. Yes he makes the odd mistake but all players do even our Captain & Cotch. Agree with Miller, time for him to dropped back to Coburg. Bring in big Griff. McGuane is the big concern for me at the moment, he has been absolutely horrible the last few weeks. Lucky we have injured key backs at the moment otherwise he would be at Coburg as well. We need to poach a Ruckman as our ruck stocks are lacking big time. Jamar's tapwork was too good and this unfortunately is a common theme.
Farmers goals came from a lack of accountability from his opponent, who played loose off him Especially in the second half. I'll give Farmer credit that he tackled well. But apart from a bit of hardness, he really doesn't have any weapons in his armourment.
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WTF is Miller being used as a second ruckman against Jamar anyway?????
Can someone tell me how that adds anything to the side, now or in the future?
I watched Miller closely today to make sure I hadn't been too hard on him.
I hadn't. He is poo.
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thought Miller was ok today
really? I couldn't stop thinking how much I'd rather see schultz at
chf and farmer & miller not wearing rixhmond. Jumpers.
Farmer? he wasn't bad today, kicked two nice goals and layed great tackles. Yes he makes the odd mistake but all players do even our Captain & Cotch. Agree with Miller, time for him to dropped back to Coburg. Bring in big Griff. McGuane is the big concern for me at the moment, he has been absolutely horrible the last few weeks. Lucky we have injured key backs at the moment otherwise he would be at Coburg as well. We need to poach a Ruckman as our ruck stocks are lacking big time. Jamar's tapwork was too good and this unfortunately is a common theme.
Farmers goals came from a lack of accountability from his opponent, who played loose off him Especially in the second half. I'll give Farmer credit that he tackled well. But apart from a bit of hardness, he really doesn't have any weapons in his armourment.
Was it lack of accountability or Farmers ability to find space? Your right he doesn't have many weapons but he is accountable, hard, efficient by foot, has ok speed and gives 100% every game. We can't have a team of superstars we need good foot soldiers to complement the stars. Farmer is a foot soldier for mine.
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More a lack of accountability IMO.
But anyhoot, I'll try to keep on topic.
miller needs to be wiped like a dirty backside.
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thought Miller was ok today
your kidding yourself jacko.
Yep Jack you must have been watching a different game in a parallel universe. Miller is a slow and cumbersome dud and list clogger of the highest order! Thanks Craig Cameron for recycling Miller and Hislop :scream.
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Miller was average. I can see why he's in there but Post has OK form and should be tried for the rest of the season. Otherwise it would be strange to delist him.
Understand it gives structure but with Vickery coming on Post can be a 3rd tall fine and can develop in the firsts without problems.
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thought Miller was ok today
your kidding yourself jacko.
Yep Jack you must have been watching a different game in a parallel universe. Miller is a slow and cumbersome dud and list clogger of the highest order! Thanks Craig Cameron for recycling Miller and Hislop :scream.
Well they refuse to give Post 2 games in a row, and bring Gourdis in, who knows what goes on down there.
Gourdis got killed yesterday.
Miller was used as 2nd ruckman in centre bounces against Jamar on several occasions.
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Post has a long way to go as well before he achieves anything, good luck to the lad but hes got lots of work to do IMHO.
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wacko and an embarrassment.
Should never give him the ball.
Lmao when vickery saw him in the square,hesitated and then decided to try to kick it himself.
Speaks volumes.
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But he is integral to our "structure". FFS.
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But he is integral to our "structure". FFS.
Waterboy?
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Hurry up Griffiths, kick Miller out of the friggin team. Bring in Post to defence
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But he is integral to our "structure". FFS.
Unfortunately he is! at least till Post grows some balls or till Griffiths is ready, we don't have any other option but play the spaz.........
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I didn't see any forward half structure on the weekend. Players with the ball would constantly look upfield and see no one creating space or running into space. Isn't that Miller's supposedly structural role - taking the burden off Jack and Ty so one of them can be one-out?! He started on the bench as well and we did fine without him having the first 6 shots on goal. Having duds like Miller in the side is like playing with a man down most weeks and denies getting games into a younger player :scream. End rant! ;D
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I didn't see any forward half structure on the weekend. Players with the ball would constantly look upfield and see no one creating space or running into space. Isn't that Miller's supposedly structural role - taking the burden off Jack and Ty so one of them can be one-out?! He started on the bench as well and we did fine without him having the first 6 shots on goal. Having duds like Miller in the side is like playing with a man down most weeks and denies getting games into a younger player :scream. End rant! ;D
Well I reckon he tried, but it's hard to take the burden off Jack when Jack seems to be creating his own burden by going in the same direction of Ty. Terribly out of form is Jack
Not his fault that we didn't one crumber with enough brains to get front square to any of our forwards for most of the day
Didn't think him being in the side last week against Brisbane resulted in us being a man down - he was actually very good agaisnt Bris - would you like me to send you a copy of the game ;D
And I know most people want him out of the side but I would like to pose a serious question is there any chance before the season finishes for Miller to get a free kick paid to him for either chopping of the arms or hands in the back?
I know Jack gets crucified by the umps with these but struth Miller aint far behind, ditto Jake King
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Miller is doing his job, His is in the side to add strength. His there to take one of the main defenders which he does & to make a contest.
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His job must be to lose his feet, not mark the ball when he should and never, ever win a one on one contest then because he is achieving a steady level of excellence in all thsoe areas.
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Someone on this site appropriately named Miller 'the witches hat' earlier this year.
I could be wrong, but was it WAT?
In any case it showed great foresight and use of the English language. :thumbsup
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Someone on this site appropriately named Miller 'the witches hat' earlier this year.
I could be wrong, but was it WAT?
In any case it showed great foresight and use of the English language. :thumbsup
Think it was Jackstar ;D
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Whozee? :rollin
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Miller is doing his job, His is in the side to add strength. His there to take one of the main defenders which he does & to make a contest.
and when he fortuitously ends up with the ball, he
a-Loses it
b-turns it over
c-has a shot on @ goal and misses.
He negates his presence by being present.
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Miller is doing his job, His is in the side to add strength. His there to take one of the main defenders which he does & to make a contest.
and when he fortuitously ends up with the ball, he
a-Loses it
b-turns it over
c-has a shot on @ goal and misses.
He negates his presence by being present.
You forgot D Ox
D - all of the above he fits right in with some many others ;D
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Well if thats what all the supporters think, then why do we draft these type of players, we get one every year. :help :banghead
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But he is integral to our "structure". FFS.
Unfortunately he is! at least till Post grows some balls or till Griffiths is ready, we don't have any other option but play the spaz.........
this is so so wrong.
at the start of the season we had just one established key forward of decent size. just one his name is riewoldt.
the thinking was to, 1 bring in a bigger body miller to play as the other kpf, 2 take some pressure of jack and give him a hand. 3 enable us to play a young third tall and give him experience without throwing him to the wolves. i for one agreed with the thinking but i ask myself has things changed enough that we no longer need to worry about these things so much and the answer is most definately.
What has transpired so far this yr.
1/ that third tall vickery is now playing kp and is now more than holding his own. 2/ vickery is outperforming miller and is a bigger help to us than miller. 3/ as a third tall which is basically what miller has become, miller achieves little for us. he gets little ball, hes as slow as, and he does nothing to take pressure away from jack gives us nothing at ground level as well as in the air and his opponents just lope away.
to me it is time to now play another younger player in what was vickerys third tall role.
with a 200cm / 97kg chf and 195cm/ 93 kg ff who can both compete against bigger bodies gives us forward line structure. what we now need is not brad miller but a tallish quick third tall who is good on the ground can chase and harass and take a grab. ideally that type would be someone like troy taylor but we all know whats going on there. barring a taylor type we may as well give another tall a run. or barring that play a big bodied skillful medium sized player.
personally i think we need to find a genuine ruckman/forward some will say vickery but not if he is to play kp. we need to find a tall medium someone around 188cm in the ryan okeefe or even jurrah mould.perhaps morton but im being rude to okeefe here. we most definately need to find a high quality goal kicking small in the mould of carltons jeff garlett.
to finish imo we go from extremes with our forward line set up.
3 kpfs 2 of whom lack pace and 3 tiny runts who all lack polish wheres the balance.
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If Griff won't play as he may be suffering the effects of concussion, need to bring Post in.
The Miller experiment has served whatever it has served. Play the kids. More detrimental than beneficial now.
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I didn't see any forward half structure on the weekend. Players with the ball would constantly look upfield and see no one creating space or running into space. Isn't that Miller's supposedly structural role - taking the burden off Jack and Ty so one of them can be one-out?! He started on the bench as well and we did fine without him having the first 6 shots on goal. Having duds like Miller in the side is like playing with a man down most weeks and denies getting games into a younger player :scream. End rant! ;D
Well I reckon he tried, but it's hard to take the burden off Jack when Jack seems to be creating his own burden by going in the same direction of Ty. Terribly out of form is Jack
Jack is playing injured which is another question all together but even so Miller as a 3rd tall just doesn't impose himself on the game. Compare him to Vickery who has imposed himself over the past month or so even with Jack struggling. As for Miller trying - well I'd hate to see if he wasn't ;D. Sadly Richmond has had teams full of too many triers like Miller who lack the class required for this level for the past 30 years. Miller is a VFL standard footballer.
Not his fault that we didn't one crumber with enough brains to get front square to any of our forwards for most of the day
That's true WP we didn't have a crumber front and square all day but a 3rd tall should also be able to crumb goals as well. I think the two plays that summed up each team's forward line on the weekend was firstly when a ball was kicked long towards a 2-on-2 situation with Watts and Jurrah up against Rance and Batchelor (?). All went up in the contest but Jurrah seeing the ball spill to the front landed and had the quick reactions and agility to crumb a goal around his body. Compare that to the same 2-on-2 situation in our forward line where with a similar incoming long ball Vickery and Miller went up for the contest and Miller's opponent was able to clear the ball away from the spill. Miller doesn't have the ability to be a reliable contested mark as a key forward nor the agility and smarts to play a 3rd forward. He shouldn't be in the side when Jack and Vickery are our two main key forwards.
Didn't think him being in the side last week against Brisbane resulted in us being a man down - he was actually very good agaisnt Bris - would you like me to send you a copy of the game ;D
Brisbane are last on the ladder for a reason ;).
And I know most people want him out of the side but I would like to pose a serious question is there any chance before the season finishes for Miller to get a free kick paid to him for either chopping of the arms or hands in the back?
I know Jack gets crucified by the umps with these but struth Miller aint far behind, ditto Jake King
Yep WP the umps ignore scragging against our forwards most weeks :banghead. The worst non-decision last weekend was a deep kick towards Vickery in the first quarter who had the sit and the Melbourne player running back made front on contract which is a free kick every day of the week yet it was called play on ::). Then off course the ball eventually went up the other end and Watts got that free. It cost us two goals :banghead.
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But he is integral to our "structure". FFS.
Unfortunately he is! at least till Post grows some balls or till Griffiths is ready, we don't have any other option but play the spaz.........
this is so so wrong.
at the start of the season we had just one established key forward of decent size. just one his name is riewoldt.
the thinking was to, 1 bring in a bigger body miller to play as the other kpf, 2 take some pressure of jack and give him a hand. 3 enable us to play a young third tall and give him experience without throwing him to the wolves. i for one agreed with the thinking but i ask myself has things changed enough that we no longer need to worry about these things so much and the answer is most definately.
What has transpired so far this yr.
1/ that third tall vickery is now playing kp and is now more than holding his own. 2/ vickery is outperforming miller and is a bigger help to us than miller. 3/ as a third tall which is basically what miller has become, miller achieves little for us. he gets little ball, hes as slow as, and he does nothing to take pressure away from jack gives us nothing at ground level as well as in the air and his opponents just lope away.
to me it is time to now play another younger player in what was vickerys third tall role.
with a 200cm / 97kg chf and 195cm/ 93 kg ff who can both compete against bigger bodies gives us forward line structure. what we now need is not brad miller but a tallish quick third tall who is good on the ground can chase and harass and take a grab. ideally that type would be someone like troy taylor but we all know whats going on there. barring a taylor type we may as well give another tall a run. or barring that play a big bodied skillful medium sized player.
personally i think we need to find a genuine ruckman/forward some will say vickery but not if he is to play kp. we need to find a tall medium someone around 188cm in the ryan okeefe or even jurrah mould.perhaps morton but im being rude to okeefe here. we most definately need to find a high quality goal kicking small in the mould of carltons jeff garlett.
to finish imo we go from extremes with our forward line set up.
3 kpfs 2 of whom lack pace and 3 tiny runts who all lack polish wheres the balance.
Agree with this post claw. While we have a couple of quality key forwards we still lack mid-size and small forwards with the class and speed (both offensively and defensively) at ground level in our forward line. It means offensively we lack those creative forwards who can make goals out of nothing from stoppages or turnover from tackles or who are nippy enough to run at angles and hit up higher up inside forward 50; while defensively opposition sides rebound out of our forward line with ease and hurt us on the counterattack. Melbourne did that to perfection last weekend. Most of their goals came from counterattacks starting in our forward half. We still have a long long way to go with our rebuild as these type of forwards don't even appear to be on our list yet (Taylor is but he's going AWOL of course :-\).
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Miller is not up to it and has actually validated the decision made by Melbourne to off load him in 2010. The reason we recruited him "structure" structure my arse!! He was afforded a lifeline by one Craig Cameron, "Jobs for the boys". Has not done anything of note that any of our youngsters could not have done just as effectively and got game time and added experience to boot.
Craig Cameron if you continue to recruit people because you are there mates and you want to give them a helping hand then you will only succeed in undermining our club. Post could have played that position for the whole year to this point and we still would have been in this position only Post would have added valuable game time to his development.
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The point is a crap player is a crap player, doesn't matter how you try and dress it up in terms of structures etc, fact is Miller can't play at AFL level.
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the RFC is not a charity case for the struggling unemployed. Thanks Cameron you fool.
We need to believe we can beat the Blues and play our best side capable of doing it and for me thats Tuck in to play up forward with Post. Play Post for the rest of the year and if no improvement then goodbye.
Miller should take his sorry a-rse to Coburg and plank there for the rest of his days as a footballer
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In other news Craig Cameron has just signed Dean Brogan to a 10 year $7 million dollar deal.
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Dunno if Vicks would have found his feet so quickly this season if it wasn't for Miller taking some of the heat. However now that he has it's time to eject the Brad.
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Dunno if Vicks would have found his feet so quickly this season if it wasn't for Miller taking some of the heat. However now that he has it's time to eject the Brad.
Closer to reality than most other posts Gerks.
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Thanks Cameron you fool.
Donald Trump without the clout
for me thats Tuck in to play up forward
ok get used to it folks , TUCK AINT COMING IN EVER !..... and Daniel if he did he wouldn't be playing up forward for the first time in his career :shh
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Dunno if Vicks would have found his feet so quickly this season if it wasn't for Miller taking some of the heat. However now that he has it's time to eject the Brad.
Closer to reality than most other posts Gerks.
Hey, why give the boy credit for making his own way this season. Miller assisting vick's development is a guess - jack pushing up the ground is just as plausible a reason.
I'm not going to say miller didn't contribute - some games earlier in the year he was serviceable. But he is done for the time being and needs a rest to "develop" our kpp's in the 2's.
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Dunno if Vicks would have found his feet so quickly this season if it wasn't for Miller taking some of the heat. However now that he has it's time to eject the Brad.
Closer to reality than most other posts Gerks.
Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
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Agree claw, need a Le Cras type of skilled HFF with midfield punch - unfortunately Morton is not playing AFL level footy consistently.
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Dunno if Vicks would have found his feet so quickly this season if it wasn't for Miller taking some of the heat. However now that he has it's time to eject the Brad.
Closer to reality than most other posts Gerks.
Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
Not rubbish - actually very close to the truth, very in close indeed, know your roll, know your purpose ;)
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Dunno if Vicks would have found his feet so quickly this season if it wasn't for Miller taking some of the heat. However now that he has it's time to eject the Brad.
Closer to reality than most other posts Gerks.
Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
You must not go to games
There has been many games this year that we have had Miller in the Ruck so that Vickery isnt exposed to ceratin situations like Jamar last week.
Also if you watched closely , Miller has been a lead up option, leaving Vickery back inside f 50, thus he has kicked goals in recent weeks
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Dunno if Vicks would have found his feet so quickly this season if it wasn't for Miller taking some of the heat. However now that he has it's time to eject the Brad.
Closer to reality than most other posts Gerks.
Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
You must not go to games
There has been many games this year that we have had Miller in the Ruck so that Vickery isnt exposed to ceratin situations like Jamar last week.
Also if you watched closely , Miller has been a lead up option, leaving Vickery back inside f 50, thus he has kicked goals in recent weeks
Correct correct correct
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Dunno if Vicks would have found his feet so quickly this season if it wasn't for Miller taking some of the heat. However now that he has it's time to eject the Brad.
Closer to reality than most other posts Gerks.
Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
You must not go to games
There has been many games this year that we have had Miller in the Ruck so that Vickery isnt exposed to ceratin situations like Jamar last week.
Also if you watched closely , Miller has been a lead up option, leaving Vickery back inside f 50, thus he has kicked goals in recent weeks
Correct correct correct
What's this?
WP and Jacko agreeing?
:lol
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Believe it or not,after i post a bagging on someone,a few days later i feel like a turd.
I must be getting softer in my old age >:(
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Believe it or not,after i post a bagging on someone,a few days later i feel like a turd.
I must be getting softer in my old age >:(
You must be bcos you'd normally say "effin turd" :rollin
Poster wanred about avoiding the swear filter
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Believe it or not,after i post a bagging on someone,a few days later i feel like a turd.
I must be getting softer in my old age >:(
its all that head banging stuff your into ;D
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Believe it or not,after i post a bagging on someone,a few days later i feel like a turd.
I must be getting softer in my old age >:(
I'm sure there's a line somewhere there about feeling like a turd and being soft....
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Dunno if Vicks would have found his feet so quickly this season if it wasn't for Miller taking some of the heat. However now that he has it's time to eject the Brad.
Closer to reality than most other posts Gerks.
Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
You must not go to games
There has been many games this year that we have had Miller in the Ruck so that Vickery isnt exposed to ceratin situations like Jamar last week.
Also if you watched closely , Miller has been a lead up option, leaving Vickery back inside f 50, thus he has kicked goals in recent weeks
Yes those two hitouts by Miller were vital last week :laugh:.
Sorry Jack, if the only defence for Miller is he is a 27 year old slow VFL standard decoy then that's not much of a defence. Sheesh if all we needed was a cannonfodder 2nd-ruckman who would get soundly beaten in the ruck against the likes of Jamar and then go forward and struggle to take a mark or gain a possession then we could have brought Gus back in ;).
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Believe it or not,after i post a bagging on someone,a few days later i feel like a turd.
I must be getting softer in my old age >:(
I'm sure there's a line somewhere there about feeling like a turd and being soft....
..i'm not touching it..
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Dunno if Vicks would have found his feet so quickly this season if it wasn't for Miller taking some of the heat. However now that he has it's time to eject the Brad.
Closer to reality than most other posts Gerks.
Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
You must not go to games
There has been many games this year that we have had Miller in the Ruck so that Vickery isnt exposed to ceratin situations like Jamar last week.
Also if you watched closely , Miller has been a lead up option, leaving Vickery back inside f 50, thus he has kicked goals in recent weeks
Yes those two hitouts by Miller were vital last week :laugh:.
Sorry Jack, if the only defence for Miller is he is a 27 year old slow VFL standard decoy then that's not much of a defence. Sheesh if all we needed was a cannonfodder 2nd-ruckman who would get soundly beaten in the ruck against the likes of Jamar and then go forward and struggle to take a mark or gain a possession then we could have brought
Problem with some people is they can't see the forest for the trees.
Edit: fixed quoting
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Dunno if Vicks would have found his feet so quickly this season if it wasn't for Miller taking some of the heat. However now that he has it's time to eject the Brad.
Closer to reality than most other posts Gerks.
Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
You must not go to games
There has been many games this year that we have had Miller in the Ruck so that Vickery isnt exposed to ceratin situations like Jamar last week.
Also if you watched closely , Miller has been a lead up option, leaving Vickery back inside f 50, thus he has kicked goals in recent weeks
Yes those two hitouts by Miller were vital last week :laugh:.
Sorry Jack, if the only defence for Miller is he is a 27 year old slow VFL standard decoy then that's not much of a defence. Sheesh if all we needed was a cannonfodder 2nd-ruckman who would get soundly beaten in the ruck against the likes of Jamar and then go forward and struggle to take a mark or gain a possession then we could have brought
Problem with some people is they can't see the forest for the trees.
Y&B, is that comment for me or Jack? I see a bunch of young trees now that will hopefully grow together into an awesome impressive forest by 2013-14 and beyond. I just believe old growth should be removed as it gets in the way of new shoots :thumbsup
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Nothing to do with Brad but thought its worth mentioning that Pia Miller is currently on UpLate on channel Go!.
Thought I'd give the Shura Taft and James Kerley late night talk show a plug on here lol.
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Video highlights of his game for all you Brad Miller fans out there ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah5oFxNtzXg&feature=player_profilepage
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dont you mean "us" Brad Miller fans?
:lol
:outtahere
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I'd keep him for 1 more year as an insurance policy and to continue to help Vickery and Griffiths. If we can get Griffiths to develop anywhere near like Vickery then that would have been a huge win IMHO.
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hopefully he gets a contract for 2012 :thumbsup
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He enjoyed shoving it up Melbourne didn't he?
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dont you mean "us" Brad Miller fans?
:lol
:outtahere
includes me al ;D
Serious question can we rookie him as a mature age rookie?
If we can I would think problem solved :gotigers
Been great for the Tigers this year as much off the field with helping develop the young blokes as on the field :clapping :clapping
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Just promote him to the list in 2012.
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Just promote him to the list in 2012.
I doubt that they would do that and to be honest I probably wouldn't if we don't need to
If we can keep as a rookie then that would likely to be the way to go IMO
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Always use the rookie spot for someone else
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I'd keep him for 1 more year as an insurance policy and to continue to help Vickery and Griffiths. If we can get Griffiths to develop anywhere near like Vickery then that would have been a huge win IMHO.
Mixed opinions amongst the fans, But I agree with Flags here
He would be handy next year to come in and out of the side to help the development of Griffiths and possibly even Derikx?
Even when he was omitted to coburg he was a good sport and continued to contribute until his recall.
Not the greatest player but is clearly part of the plan to develop the younger kids and add some experience
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Brad Miller deserves his place in the team.14 goals 13 behinds (12 games) is not a bad return for a "hack/dud"....could of been much better too.
Many of us celebrated when Miller got dumped for Griffiths but Big Ben could only manage 1 goal in 4 games.
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Would be comfortable keeping Miller on the list another year given Ben is developing slowly and we lack depth in tall forwards.
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keep.
What's another bodgy kick for goal in the team anyway. :clapping
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I'd keep him for 1 more year as an insurance policy and to continue to help Vickery and Griffiths. If we can get Griffiths to develop anywhere near like Vickery then that would have been a huge win IMHO.
Agrees with this post but think Griff could be better than Vickery if he can stay fit.
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If we're serious, he'll get delisted as opposed to promoted.
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have to keep.
Get rid of players 31-38.
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have to keep.
Get rid of players 31-38.
I don't see it. He's no better than many we cleaned out in the rebuild.
Not needed as insurance now. Delist.
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have to keep.
Get rid of players 31-38.
Agree, we still need some experience around the joint. Melbourne has shown what happens when you have don't have enough around. He doesnt need to be a champion, just a teacher of the younger kids.
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Agree, we still need some experience around the joint. Melbourne has shown what happens when you have don't have enough around. He doesnt need to be a champion, just a teacher of the younger kids.
Lol so Miller leaving is the reason the Dees have gone backwards??
Older does not equate to any good.
We have quite a few senior players now, he won't be missed.
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Lol so Miller leaving is the reason the Dees have gone backwards??
Older does not equate to any good.
We have quite a few senior players now, he won't be missed.
Would think the way the Dees handled MacDonald & Miller's departures has had a bit to do with the problems the Dees have had this season - players certainly were not happy with the way it was done
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just goes to show that most posters on here dont watch the game
Brad plays a significant role in our forward set up
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just goes to show that most posters on here dont watch the game
Brad plays a significant role in our forward set up
Have to agree Jack. The way he assists with our forward structure set ups, creating space for our other forwards and bring ing the ball down to our crumbers far outweighs any deficencies he has with his goal kicking. He is doing exactly what he was brought to the club for - educating and leading the younger players plus allowing the likes of Griffiths and Astbury etc time to develop before being forced into the line up before they are ready.
I don't think anyone thinks Miller is a long term prospect but until he is forced out of the team and has no other worth, why not keep him on the rookie list?!
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Correct, his assists in goals is very good.
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just goes to show that most posters on here dont watch the game
Brad plays a significant role in our forward set up
No just don't have low standards. He did a job, now bye bye.
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Milzy's played a couple of decent games for the year. One of them against his former struggling team last week.
Amazes me how some fall into the old trap of overrating Richmond players who are short of the grade as soon as they show an ounce of ability.
Miller has the mobility of a semi-trailer, there is no use in persisting with him for another year.
Would think the way the Dees handled MacDonald & Miller's departures has had a bit to do with the problems the Dees have had this season - players certainly were not happy with the way it was done
McDonald perhaps.
Miller spent most of last year in the reserves so I hardly see how it made any difference to them.
I would suggest speculation over Scully and general player unhappiness with the administration has played a far greater part in the stagnation of the Dees this season.
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Would think the way the Dees handled MacDonald & Miller's departures has had a bit to do with the problems the Dees have had this season - players certainly were not happy with the way it was done
McDonald perhaps.
Miller spent most of last year in the reserves so I hardly see how it made any difference to them.
I would suggest speculation over Scully and general player unhappiness with the administration has played a far greater part in the stagnation of the Dees this season.
My mail is that the players were not happy with how either was handled - both extremely popular and well respected by their peers.... the MacDonald thing in particular has lingered all season ;)
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My mail is that the players were not happy with how either was handled - both extremely popular and well respected by their peers.... the MacDonald thing in particular has lingered all season ;)
Cam Bruce's departure too would have raised some eyebrows I guess.
Even if what you say is true re BM, I can't see how moving him on this year from Richmond would parallel with any player disgruntlement at Melbourne.
I think we can cover what he's offered this year quite easily in 2012.
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Milzy's played a couple of decent games for the year. One of them against his former struggling team last week.
Amazes me how some fall into the old trap of overrating Richmond players who are short of the grade as soon as they show an ounce of ability.
Miller has the mobility of a semi-trailer, there is no use in persisting with him for another year.
Would think the way the Dees handled MacDonald & Miller's departures has had a bit to do with the problems the Dees have had this season - players certainly were not happy with the way it was done
McDonald perhaps.
Miller spent most of last year in the reserves so I hardly see how it made any difference to them.
I would suggest speculation over Scully and general player unhappiness with the administration has played a far greater part in the stagnation of the Dees this season.
Yes thats what i was referring to WP.
I agree MM, Miller is not our future but he can help shape it.
However, even though Miller played reserves most of last season, even that was handled poorly. It got to the stage where Melbourne wanted to pick Miller for a farewell game, even though he had not been delisted yet, and he told them to jam it preferring to play with the younger blokes in the twos. I think from memory he was booting alot of goals earlier and was being ignored for selection.
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I agree MM, Miller is not our future but he can help shape it.
However, even though Miller played reserves most of last season, even that was handled poorly. It got to the stage where Melbourne wanted to pick Miller for a farewell game, even though he had not been delisted yet, and he told them to jam it preferring to play with the younger blokes in the twos. I think from memory he was booting alot of goals earlier and was being ignored for selection.
The part in yellow is so correct, GR, and something that some dont seem to be able to get their head around.
Recent comments from Hardwick about miller
Look he's just helped with the general development of our forwards. We looked at our forward stocks and they were quite thin with Jack. The development of Tyrone Vickery and Ben Griffiths who we've seen a little bit of but not a great deal is purely down to the work of Brad and Danny Daly our forward-line coach. He's done a power of amount of work with bodywork and positioning. Sometimes as a coach it is difficult if you haven't played that position to teach but Brad's work with Danny has those guys playing some pretty good footy. You only have to look at the development of Vickery this year has been a great positive for us.
"He brought instant leadership, he's an outstanding leader. His character is second to none,"
something the club has severley lacked
In terms of being ignored early in the season, he was recruited for a specific role and that was made clear to him at the start of the year
From all reports he has accepted his lot with dignity
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Milzy's played a couple of decent games for the year. One of them against his former struggling team last week.
Amazes me how some fall into the old trap of overrating Richmond players who are short of the grade as soon as they show an ounce of ability.
Miller has the mobility of a semi-trailer, there is no use in persisting with him for another year.
Would think the way the Dees handled MacDonald & Miller's departures has had a bit to do with the problems the Dees have had this season - players certainly were not happy with the way it was done
McDonald perhaps.
Miller spent most of last year in the reserves so I hardly see how it made any difference to them.
I would suggest speculation over Scully and general player unhappiness with the administration has played a far greater part in the stagnation of the Dees this season.
Ummmm Magic, Its obvious you don't like him but out of the 7 games we have won this year, he has played in 6 of them. :whistle I agree with Jackstar in the fact that he does play a very important role in our forward structure. Provides another tall marking option. He is not a dumb footballer by any means as shown by the number of assists he does per game.
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The other important aspect is that The Griff is not ready. It seems that 8 possies a match is his upper limit at present, and that's not enough to draw backmen away from double teaming Jack or TV. I think that Griff might have a lot more development to undergo in the twos before bringing him in. A bit like they did with Rance.
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If one of Post, Astbury or Griffiths push Miller out then and he spends next year at Coburg great but thats no certainty.
Miller is not perfect but he knows how to play his role and I reckon he will play round 1 2012
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Yeah one thing I like about Miller is his back up work and how he still manages to create something if can't make the mark etc. He shows a lot of smarts. Early on he looked a bit fumbly and inaccurate, but he certainly has run into some form. The training at Richmond might be the tonic he needed.
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Yeah one thing I like about Miller is his back up work and how he still manages to create something if can't make the mark etc. He shows a lot of smarts. Early on he looked a bit fumbly and inaccurate, but he certainly has run into some form. The training at Richmond might be the tonic he needed.
Maybe it's having a coach that doesn't try to to lose.
:outtahere
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That too! I was interested in his comments when he started training with us. He was impressed with how hard everyone was working. The rumor that Scully was annoyed with some of the slack attitude could of been true.
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BRAD MILLER TO MAKE A DECISION
by: Jon Ralph
From: Herald Sun
October 04, 2011
BRAD Miller has been offered a new deal at Richmond, but is still considering his future after what should be considered an extremely successful year.
He was hailed as a superb clubman, kicked 17 goals from 14 games, and helped the club's offensive structure by taking the focus off Jack Riewoldt.
But with Richmond still keen to develop its talls like Ben Griffiths, David Astbury, Jayden Post and Matt Dea, the club cannot guarantee him games.
He would remain on the rookie list if he stayed on next year and potentially play only a handful of games.
He is to come back to the club soon with a decision, but he can't lose either way.
Richmond's decision to extend his career paid off, and even if he played a year in the VFL next season he can hold his head high.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/jack-gunston-could-be-the-missing-link-for-hawthorn/story-fn6cisdj-1226157495632
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BRAD MILLER TO MAKE A DECISION
I reckon he will stay ;D
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It'll be good if we could get another year out of him. No great loss if he does decide to hang the boots up though.
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Has been fantastic for the club in the role he was given. I think he will go around 1 last time.
On another note, why does Ralph continue to include Matt Dea in our list of 'developing talls'. :wallywink Especially when the article is about forward line development. The kid would be mid 180's :banghead
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because Ralphy eats crayons
well established now ;D
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because Ralphy eats crayons
well established now ;D
Ralphy comes out with the rumour and innuendo
Gerks comes out with facts :lol
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because Ralphy eats crayons
well established now ;D
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/mollusc/14o65iw.jpg)
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pee Miller off.
GWS would probably give us a first rounder for him, they love old players of questionable ability.
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There's no question about his ability.
He is an average footballer.
But he was never recruited for his football ability.
he would have been a good candidate to captain our own seconds, and that in itself just about sums him, I suppose.
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Brad Miller - Under the Tigerscope video...
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/roarvisionarchive/tabid/11454/contentid/419517/default.aspx
Nice Luke McGuane impersonation!
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Just asking when do the pre season rookie promotions take place? And do we get two with Moore on the long term injury list? I assume Miller gets first promo but I also assume mini-Maric is in the mix somewhere.
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normally dont happen untill just before the start of rnd 1 and yeah if moore is still on the LTIL we would have two possible promotions, but we dont have to promote two. last year we only promoted miller when we could have promoted 2.
the other rookies would have to show something in the pre seson to get the gig i'd reckon.
I read somewhere recently that astbury was still on the LTIL as well. if true that could mean 3 possibles, but i have my doubts
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is this dud still on the list?
Geez tiges :-[
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Anyone seen Mini Maric's value on DT?? $315,600 on SC and $303,900 on DT. :o Played 9 games last year with an average around 60 which isn't too shabby.
If the X-Man, Vickers, Griff and possibly Post are planned to have long stints in the forward line, mini might get a call up before Miller.
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Anyone seen Mini Maric's value on DT?? $315,600 on SC and $303,900 on DT. :o Played 9 games last year with an average around 60 which isn't too shabby.
If the X-Man, Vickers, Griff and possibly Post are planned to have long stints in the forward line, mini might get a call up before Miller.
Yep :p I question his upside at 300k but. Assuming pocket-Maric gets elevated, after my premiums, then Porps and Boomer (only 450k. Not to shabby to keep in the forwards considering Norf's draw) I don't think I could risk him at 300k. I'm already rolling with Martin, Deledio and macro-Maric + Ellis for cash anyway.
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Stop the boats
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Brad Miller's press conference today ....
http://bigpondvideo.com/RichmondTV/429521/Miller%20press%20conference/
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Now we know why Vickery was getting games ahead of Brad :yep.
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Now we know why Vickery was getting games ahead of Brad :yep.
And why Vickery will regain his spot after the bye. :thumbsup
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Needs to lift his game dramatically
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Needs to lift his game dramatically
Needs to go back to Coburg
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Needs to lift his game dramatically
Needs to go back to Coburg
Can't lift his game, the game is too quick for him. He'll stay at Coburg.
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good to derrickx named in the best for coburg this week. hopefully he can continue that and provide a viable option to miller
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Reckon Miller did his job
presented at contests in a hard day for forwards
Also rucked against Brogan alot while Maric played a kick behind
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Holding the team back.
At least vickery is agile.
Would much rather elton astbury derickx
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good to derrickx named in the best for coburg this week. hopefully he can continue that and provide a viable option to miller
Derickx has been playing down back in recent weeks as well as rucking. So he's not an alternative forward/ruck option. Personally I don't see the big X ever playing for Richmond.
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Derckx played down back mostly today and got some easy possesions, is well off AFL level
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Holding the team back.
At least vickery is agile.
Would much rather elton astbury derickx
Vickery ::) ::) ::) he aint the answer, Agile ??? Need to be hard and crash packs and contest
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Holding the team back.
At least vickery is agile.
Would much rather elton astbury derickx
Vickery ::) ::) ::) he aint the answer, Agile ??? Need to be hard and crash packs and contest
na Jack seriously you cant defend Miller anymore. That was rubbish his effort.
You know what i dont blame him though i blame Dimma and the coaching panel for selecting a bloke that is clearly past it.
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0 goals.
Ave 9 touches per game.
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Whats starting to annoy me is that we have Miller in the seniors, mcGuane, Graham and Post fwd at the burgers, Astbury, Derickx and Browne in the side too which means Elton gets bumped down to burger reserves!
Thats poor management right there. McGuane is gawn, should be down back. Post has shown a bit up forward recently, bite the friggin bullet and play him against GWS in place of Vickery and MILLER! Derickx is gawn, he should be in the burger reserves and Elton should be cutting his teeth against the best the VFL has to offer.
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Very poor selection
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Hope he never plays in our guernsey again.
Would rather have had A.Maric or Webberley running around in the wet.
Delist at years end.
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Hope he never plays in our guernsey again.
Would rather have had A.Maric or Webberley running around in the wet.
Delist at years end.
I agree but its not his fault. You have to ask yourself How the f... was he selected in the first place.
Slow, wet weather, playing against the GWS, couldve easily been better off playing Griffiths in the F50/Part time Ruck and brought in Elton.
I cant understand some of the selections of the past month. Vickery gifting games when he doesnt deserve them and Miller brought in.
I think they have lost the plot and are too focused about having mature players taking us to finals when the real issue is not developing the younger players who seem lost at Coburg.
How can anyone say that Elton playing Millers role would've done worse that what was produced today.
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Reckon Miller did his job
presented at contests in a hard day for forwards
Also rucked against Brogan alot while Maric played a kick behind
:) :) :) :) :) :)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
:ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL
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Elton playing 3rds :-\
Hope he never plays in our guernsey again.
Would rather have had A.Maric or Webberley running around in the wet.
Delist at years end.
I agree but its not his fault. You have to ask yourself How the f... was he selected in the first place.
Slow, wet weather, playing against the GWS, couldve easily been better off playing Griffiths in the F50/Part time Ruck and brought in Elton.
I cant understand some of the selections of the past month. Vickery gifting games when he doesnt deserve them and Miller brought in.
I think they have lost the plot and are too focused about having mature players taking us to finals when the real issue is not developing the younger players who seem lost at Coburg.
How can anyone say that Elton playing Millers role would've done worse that what was produced today.
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Miller
5 kicks
5 handballs
4 marks
4 times got into jacks way
:ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL
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4 times got into jacks way
:ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL
....and nearly killed Kingy :banghead
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POINTLESS
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Whats starting to annoy me is that we have Miller in the seniors, mcGuane, Graham and Post fwd at the burgers, Astbury, Derickx and Browne in the side too which means Elton gets bumped down to burger reserves!
Thats poor management right there. McGuane is gawn, should be down back. Post has shown a bit up forward recently, bite the friggin bullet and play him against GWS in place of Vickery and MILLER! Derickx is gawn, he should be in the burger reserves and Elton should be cutting his teeth against the best the VFL has to offer.
I probably would have copped post given a shot today but i supported millers inclusion for lack of a better option, we needed the 4 points desperately
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4 times got into jacks way
:ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL
....and nearly killed Kingy :banghead
correct.
He is a joke of a player and a joke of a selection.
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I think we've no past the stage where we need Brad to play this irrelevant role taking an opposition defender away from contests to free up Jack etc.
It doesn't really work and Brad's effort whilst I can respect aren't contributing to wins. I wouldn't be playing Miller again. If Vickery is injured or out of form then give Post more chances then he deserves who knows what will happen. I can't see us achieving anything by having Miller in the side. Miller last year at the club.
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I think we've no past the stage where we need Brad to play this irrelevant role taking an opposition defender away from contests to free up Jack etc.
It doesn't really work and Brad's effort whilst I can respect aren't contributing to wins. I wouldn't be playing Miller again. If Vickery is injured or out of form then give Post more chances then he deserves who knows what will happen. I can't see us achieving anything by having Miller in the side. Miller last year at the club.
I'm afraid Post is a post!....and this from someone who has defended him for years. Next year Elton will begin putting pressure on the Tall forwards, if he isn't already.
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first time Ive seen Miller play in person, in terms of expectations I set the bar low and he comfortably came under that.
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Miller better option than Vickery at the moment .at least he creates a contest
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As I posted in the Dea thread yesterday I paid particular attention to:
Dea
Connors
Miller
King
Grigg
Will repeat I haven't watched the replay yet
But on Millers game his 1% ers (eg the blocking for the small forwards & restings mids up forward) and those things that don't count as stats are clearly why he is in the side. He did those things again yesterday.
Granted he didn't get much of the ball (but the stats say he had one possession than the skipper ;D) but he presented, bought the ball to ground, protected the smalls and he freed up Maric to be a spare down back by taking the ruck in the forward 50 - that seemed to be his designated role and he did it.
Certainly wasn't the worst yesterday ;D
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Who was worse?
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Who was worse?
A tie between Jake King & Chris Newman ;D Both had shockers
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batchelor?
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batchelor?
A very close 2nd ;D
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As I posted in the Dea thread yesterday I paid particular attention to:
Dea
Connors
Miller
King
Grigg
Will repeat I haven't watched the replay yet
But on Millers game his 1% ers (eg the blocking for the small forwards & restings mids up forward) and those things that don't count as stats are clearly why he is in the side. He did those things again yesterday.
Granted he didn't get much of the ball (but the stats say he had one possession than the skipper ;D) but he presented, bought the ball to ground, protected the smalls and he freed up Maric to be a spare down back by taking the ruck in the forward 50 - that seemed to be his designated role and he did it.
Certainly wasn't the worst yesterday ;D
Am glad someone on this forum actually watches the game
Totally agree WP.Miller did his role
Unlike a few others
Interesting also the fact that Maric played alot behind the ball to try and stop the bleeding in defence
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Major issue if we have inform Ruckman playing behind the ball and not pushing forward
Huge issue in D50 in the moment
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Its the gameplan champ
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At times, GWS played two loose men in defense. In the first half, I thought The People's Mullet kept out of our forward half to reduce the numbers in our forward 50. It didn't work because GWS then had up to three extra players in our attacking 50. We kept bombing it in, they brought it to ground and had the numbers to hack in out and then we bombed it back in. When GWS actually got to run it out of defense, their superior skills helped them look pretty good.
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Major issue if we have inform Ruckman playing behind the ball and not pushing forward
Huge issue in D50 in the moment
hes been doing both all year
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Although yesterday it was very obviously especially in the first half it will Miller against Brogan anything forward of centre
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As I posted in the Dea thread yesterday I paid particular attention to:
Dea
Connors
Miller
King
Grigg
Will repeat I haven't watched the replay yet
But on Millers game his 1% ers (eg the blocking for the small forwards & restings mids up forward) and those things that don't count as stats are clearly why he is in the side. He did those things again yesterday.
Granted he didn't get much of the ball (but the stats say he had one possession than the skipper ;D) but he presented, bought the ball to ground, protected the smalls and he freed up Maric to be a spare down back by taking the ruck in the forward 50 - that seemed to be his designated role and he did it.
Certainly wasn't the worst yesterday ;D
Am glad someone on this forum actually watches the game
Totally agree WP.Miller did his role
Unlike a few others
Interesting also the fact that Maric played alot behind the ball to try and stop the bleeding in defence
what a stupid thing to say. Most all on here watch the games but many including yourself only see what you want to see.
The FACTS are that the Melbourne fc new that Miller wasn't up to it something you & our selectors fail to accept.
Is there any point to him getting games ahead of a youngster that can be gifted games in order to
a) fastrack their development
b) see if they are good enough.
These 2 points destroy any reason to play Miller in the senior team.
I suggest you both watch the replay again and the replay of the game against the bombers and ask yourself, "what point is there that he is in the team?" when he can't kick, read the play, gets in jacks way, fails to block, fails to capitalize on jacks good work, fumbles, can't kick beyond 40m, takes his defender straight to Jack, has no respect by any opposition defender. Etc etc etc.
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yep, he has played 0ver 150 games by fluke ::)
Unless there is someone demanding the position at Coburg, got no issue
Watching the replay of Coburg, there isnt anyone demanding any position.
Elton played in the development squad yesterday
And as for Vickerys form in 2012 :chuck
Got no issue with promoting young developing players IF they deserve a game.
There isnt anyone putting there hand up, Post :nope
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Miller was bought to richmond to fill an immediate need,not to be the long term solution to our forward set up.As of june 17 i reckon that need is still there
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Connors
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not yet..one swallow doesnt make a summer
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better
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yep, he has played 0ver 150 games by fluke ::)
Unless there is someone demanding the position at Coburg, got no issue
Watching the replay of Coburg, there isnt anyone demanding any position.
Elton played in the development squad yesterday
And as for Vickerys form in 2012 :chuck
Got no issue with promoting young developing players IF they deserve a game.
There isnt anyone putting there hand up, Post :nope
Just wondering
You've watched 10 hours of footy over the weekend Jack.
GWS V Rich live
You mentioned you've seen the replay twice.
Now Coburg v Port.
Have you seen any other games over the weekend?
Anyways I see more upside in playing Post, Elton Astbury or even McGuane up forward than Miller.
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Mate.still watching footy
Astbury is still at least 4 weeks away
McGaune has already been told he will be moved on at end of year
Post still struggling
Elton played in development team
Derrickx played down back and got alot of uncontested possessions
Also fell over alot yesterday.
Seen nothing at Coburg yesterday
Browne was good.then there were the Coburg players that impressed Fahey and Groves
Maric was ok been been tried and lacking
So do you preserve going back to Vickery or keep Miller for the time being with the hope that Astbury could get back in a month and then push Griffiths forward
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not yet..one swallow doesnt make a summer
no but it does stop the stork from making deliveries
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LOL AL
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McGaune has already been told he will be moved on at end of year
Presuming this is factual (no one would be surprised either), is it really the right thing to put it on a forum? It's always fun to drop some bombs and show everyone we know things, but is it always smart? I don't want egg on my face at the end of the year, so I'm preferring to sit on some things should they not actually eventuate or jeopardise the outcome.
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No difference that is was publicly known that Connors was out the door if he mucked up again.no big deal
All Mcgaune can do is try and stick it up everyone
Similar to Tucky actually
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The difference is Tucky was never told his papers were allready stamped....
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read the last few pages of this thread.
i agree with those who think miller is a step backwards. he surely wont be on the list come seasons end.have always thought we still need to get games into kids weather they have earnt them or not. fast vtracking kids is actually the thing that has made us mnore competetive and all of a sudden we want to stop doing it. still to many hacks on the list to stop doing it.
so what options did we have and do we have.
for the gws game i would have played maric out of a fp for 80% of the game. would have given graham a run in the ruck for 80% of the game.
with ivan and riewoldt both playing forward the option would have been to give a kid a game against kids. elton or post should have played.post would have given us the flexability to cover the oppositions extra tall forwards if need be.
what do we do if ivan gets hurt. we cant even give another ruckman a game while hes there and being run into the ground, if ivan goes down we just throw that ruckman in the deep end without having played a game all yr. ::)
we had an opportunity to develop and have a look at other players just by tweaking things a bit and we failed to do so.
me i think connors earned another game. id really like to see o'hanlon get a full game and edwards has had another good game as a small forward. those are your three medium small forwards for next week.
personally id drop both king and nahas who both did little again and again very much looked like vfl players.. i have to say if miller is not the future these two arent either.
people go crook about post but i have to say as a backman hes done just as much as griffiths if not more when he has played, yet so few want to give him a decent run at it.
after the break we get grimes back we need to either play griffiths and rance with him or play post and rance with him and send griffiths to ff.when astbury gets match fit i would play him as a hit up chf.
to me the tall options and all the forward options are.
b/ morris - rance - grimes/moore.
hb/ dea - griffiths/post/astbury - newman/batchelor/ whos out of touch in a big way.
c/ deledio - tuck - grigg
hf/ o'hanlon - griffiths/post/astbury/elton - connors.
f/ edwards/king/nahas/a maric - riewoldt/griffiths - vickery/derickx/ i maric
r/ maric/graham - cotchin - foley.
int/ ellis - houli - conca - jackson/arnot.
if every one was fit and in form, my side would go.
b/ morris - rance - moore only if fit and hes regained his pace and form.or if we need balance a small in newman or houli.
hb/ grimes - post/griffiths - batchelor/newman
c/ deledio - martin - grigg
hf/ o'hanlon - astbury - connors/maric
f/ edwards - riewoldt - griffiths/vickery/derickx
r/ maric - cotchin - foley
int/ tuck - ellis - conca - helbig/arnot.
emg houli vickery jackson nahas king.
young players like vickery havibg had numerous opportunity would now have to earn a game and older players who arent a part of the future will be slowly phased out like jackson nahs, king miller only to get a game if injury happens.
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And Houli doesn't get a game
Oh dear
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Maric? Surely a miss print you cant be talking about the one from Melbourne.
He is rubbish.
Houli comes in also. Has done more than enough
Love your emergency players the most. 100% spot on
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And Houli doesn't get a game
Oh dear
please tell where would you like to see him played.
hes no mid thats for sure.
hes played some decent footy of hb and done nothing as a forward.
for me as a back all of morris, dea, batchelor, newman, ellis, conca, deledio, are better backline options. where do you fit him in. three plays as mids still leaves 4 in front of him.
thru the midfield and i have to say he will never be a good mid just lacks in a few key areas, all of conca, cotchin, deledio, ellis, foley, grigg, martin, tuck, are better options and i reckon when developed both helbig and arnot to be better options. still not enough and maybe as an outside mid where hes got some time and space he may be an option.
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Maric? Surely a miss print you cant be talking about the one from Melbourne.
He is rubbish.
Houli comes in also. Has done more than enough
Love your emergency players the most. 100% spot on
you could be right about maric but i for one would sure as hell like to find out one way or the other and give him a decent go. dont believe in this b/s in for a week struggle out for 5. sheesh if we applied that to all our developing players they just wouldnt develop.
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Houli has played every game possible since his arrival
His use of ball is excellent
In a team that were the biggest butchers of turning the ball over
I give up discussing football on here
Houli a emergency is a joke
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Maric? Surely a miss print you cant be talking about the one from Melbourne.
He is rubbish.
Houli comes in also. Has done more than enough
Love your emergency players the most. 100% spot on
you could be right about maric but i for one would sure as hell like to find out one way or the other and give him a decent go. dont believe in this b/s in for a week struggle out for 5. sheesh if we applied that to all our developing players they just wouldnt develop.
Well they leave Vickery in for months on end
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I suggest you both watch the replay again and the replay of the game against the bombers and ask yourself, "what point is there that he is in the team?" when he can't kick, read the play, gets in jacks way, fails to block, fails to capitalize on jacks good work, fumbles, can't kick beyond 40m, takes his defender straight to Jack, has no respect by any opposition defender. Etc etc etc.
Firstly, I thought I was commenting on the game against GWS not a game from weeks ago so I don't need to watch THAT replay. It is not relevant to this discussion about this game = GWS
It seems to me it wouldn't matter what he does facts are you have made up your mind and that's your choice but please don't keep harping back to game that is history at least deal with the most recent game
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Maric? Surely a miss print you cant be talking about the one from Melbourne.
He is rubbish.
Houli comes in also. Has done more than enough
Love your emergency players the most. 100% spot on
you could be right about maric but i for one would sure as hell like to find out one way or the other and give him a decent go. dont believe in this b/s in for a week struggle out for 5. sheesh if we applied that to all our developing players they just wouldnt develop.
Newy wont be in our starting 22 come 2014. I believe this is his last year playing all 22 games. Next year Cotch captain
Houli is that replacement in the defensive half. Your kidding Houli doesnt deserve a spot right?
I agree for 100% re: needing to play another ruckman not Vickery.
This is the first full season Maric has played and if he gets injured we are screwed.
Would play Gus in the Adelaide game.
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Would play Gus in the Adelaide game.
Just when I praise Daniel he come out with this poo.
Gus will be gone at year's end, A Browne will be the backup for Maric/Vickery.
:thumbsup
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Would play Gus in the Adelaide game.
Just when I praise Daniel he come out with this poo.
Gus will be gone at year's end, A Browne will be the backup for Maric/Vickery.
:thumbsup
im looking at the bigger picture. If we make finals Ivan will be spent. Gone
He has never played a full season so what options do we have.
Vickery, not on this years form.
Adelaide are going to go in tall and who do we have apart from Ivan. Miller wont play
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Browne and Gus.
How can a professional club see either as future ruck?
Indicative of the times past......?
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Browne is young and was BOG for Coburg this week.
:thumbsup
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something,i guess.......
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Browne and Gus.
How can a professional club see either as future ruck?
Indicative of the times past......?
100% correct.
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I suggest you both watch the replay again and the replay of the game against the bombers and ask yourself, "what point is there that he is in the team?" when he can't kick, read the play, gets in jacks way, fails to block, fails to capitalize on jacks good work, fumbles, can't kick beyond 40m, takes his defender straight to Jack, has no respect by any opposition defender. Etc etc etc.
Firstly, I thought I was commenting on the game against GWS not a game from weeks ago so I don't need to watch THAT replay. It is not relevant to this discussion about this game = GWS
It seems to me it wouldn't matter what he does facts are you have made up your mind and that's your choice but please don't keep harping back to game that is history at least deal with the most recent game
ok WP obviously you only read part of my posts.
Then watch the replay of this game then and watch closely how many times he fails.
And why didn't you answer my question that I asked in that post?
I'll ask another question, will he be there in 2014? If not then what's the point playing him anywhere but coburg where he can help teach the youngsters?
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Dea? Best side?
read the last few pages of this thread.
i agree with those who think miller is a step backwards. he surely wont be on the list come seasons end.have always thought we still need to get games into kids weather they have earnt them or not. fast vtracking kids is actually the thing that has made us mnore competetive and all of a sudden we want to stop doing it. still to many hacks on the list to stop doing it.
so what options did we have and do we have.
for the gws game i would have played maric out of a fp for 80% of the game. would have given graham a run in the ruck for 80% of the game.
with ivan and riewoldt both playing forward the option would have been to give a kid a game against kids. elton or post should have played.post would have given us the flexability to cover the oppositions extra tall forwards if need be.
what do we do if ivan gets hurt. we cant even give another ruckman a game while hes there and being run into the ground, if ivan goes down we just throw that ruckman in the deep end without having played a game all yr. ::)
we had an opportunity to develop and have a look at other players just by tweaking things a bit and we failed to do so.
me i think connors earned another game. id really like to see o'hanlon get a full game and edwards has had another good game as a small forward. those are your three medium small forwards for next week.
personally id drop both king and nahas who both did little again and again very much looked like vfl players.. i have to say if miller is not the future these two arent either.
people go crook about post but i have to say as a backman hes done just as much as griffiths if not more when he has played, yet so few want to give him a decent run at it.
after the break we get grimes back we need to either play griffiths and rance with him or play post and rance with him and send griffiths to ff.when astbury gets match fit i would play him as a hit up chf.
to me the tall options and all the forward options are.
b/ morris - rance - grimes/moore.
hb/ dea - griffiths/post/astbury - newman/batchelor/ whos out of touch in a big way.
c/ deledio - tuck - grigg
hf/ o'hanlon - griffiths/post/astbury/elton - connors.
f/ edwards/king/nahas/a maric - riewoldt/griffiths - vickery/derickx/ i maric
r/ maric/graham - cotchin - foley.
int/ ellis - houli - conca - jackson/arnot.
if every one was fit and in form, my side would go.
b/ morris - rance - moore only if fit and hes regained his pace and form.or if we need balance a small in newman or houli.
hb/ grimes - post/griffiths - batchelor/newman
c/ deledio - martin - grigg
hf/ o'hanlon - astbury - connors/maric
f/ edwards - riewoldt - griffiths/vickery/derickx
r/ maric - cotchin - foley
int/ tuck - ellis - conca - helbig/arnot.
emg houli vickery jackson nahas king.
young players like vickery havibg had numerous opportunity would now have to earn a game and older players who arent a part of the future will be slowly phased out like jackson nahs, king miller only to get a game if injury happens.
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I suggest you both watch the replay again and the replay of the game against the bombers and ask yourself, "what point is there that he is in the team?" when he can't kick, read the play, gets in jacks way, fails to block, fails to capitalize on jacks good work, fumbles, can't kick beyond 40m, takes his defender straight to Jack, has no respect by any opposition defender. Etc etc etc.
Firstly, I thought I was commenting on the game against GWS not a game from weeks ago so I don't need to watch THAT replay. It is not relevant to this discussion about this game = GWS
It seems to me it wouldn't matter what he does facts are you have made up your mind and that's your choice but please don't keep harping back to game that is history at least deal with the most recent game
ok WP obviously you only read part of my posts.
Then watch the replay of this game then and watch closely how many times he fails.
And why didn't you answer my question that I asked in that post?
I'll ask another question, will he be there in 2014? If not then what's the point playing him anywhere but coburg where he can help teach the youngsters?
Now that's funny you say I don't read all of your post well I could say the same so I suggest you read mine.
I said in my original post that I hadn't watched the replay and my comments were based on what I saw at the actual game. I intend to watch the replay today
BTW all the things you highlighted about the Bombers game which you are now saying he did or didn't do in the GWS game are the things that at the game I saw him to do eg the blocking, 1%ers etc. But as I said I'll watch the replay and I'll look to see what the TV shows as opposed to what you see when you are at a game
In answer to your other question - will he be there in 2014? - to be honest and you're not going to like this my answer is I really don't know as IMV it is going to depend on how the young blokes are coming along. Do you keep him for insurance in 2014 in case things goes "pear shaped" with the similar sized young blokes on the list
FWIW I reckon the blokes that are on the list who you would think are going to take his place are: Post, Astbusry, Elton and perhaps Griffiths (though the Club seem determined to have him as a defender). I dont' include Derickx as I see him as a ruckman and pinch hitter up forward and I think there are real doubts he will be there in 2014. As for this call for Gus to be played as a forward - well no he is a ruckman and not a very mobile one at that so how people can think he can be a relatively mobile forward certainly confuses me
Again IMV, Post will be gone at the end of the season. You and others can say they should play him but if at Coburg he isn't doing the things they want him to do to warrant selection then why play him?
Astbury: there are massive questions marks here like there are with anyone who's coming off a major knee injury. Simple fact is right now they are taking it very slowly with him and I for one applaud the Club for taking this approach.
Elton: played Coburg ressies on Saturday which either suggest he's a long way off AFL level or they were trying to give a full game of footy. I hope it was the latter but having said that I don't think anyone can read too much into anyone playing well at that level because the gap in standard between VFL & VFL ressies is massive. So again there a question marks over where he sits in being ready for AFL footy.
***BTW I haven't inlcuded Vickery because he is a long termer as this year has shown despite his form being terrible for most of the season (would say he has gone backwards actually). So Miller isn't and wont keep him out of the side
So as to why is playing in the seniors? Simple answer is the coaches want him there because they think he is the best option for us right now because he plays the role they want. And another thing Dimma loves the way he plays and what he brings to the team and at the end of the day that's far more important that what we think :thumbsup
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***BTW I haven't inlcuded Vickery because he is a long termer as this year has shown despite his form being terrible for most of the season (would say he has gone backwards actually). So Miller isn't and wont keep him out of the side
So as to why is playing in the seniors? Simple answer is the coaches want him there because they think he is the best option for us right now because he plays the role they want. And another thing Dimma loves the way he plays and what he brings to the team and at the end of the day that's far more important that what we think :thumbsup
/thread
:cheers
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So as to why is playing in the seniors? Simple answer is the coaches want him there because they think he is the best option for us right now because he plays the role they want. And another thing Dimma loves the way he plays and what he brings to the team and at the end of the day that's far more important that what we think :thumbsup
Totally agree, although the nuffers on he are clueless so pointless discussing anymore
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You understand bradley was delisted by Mfc. When Mfc had arguably the weakest list and close to the youngest in last 150 years?
I suggest you both watch the replay again and the replay of the game against the bombers and ask yourself, "what point is there that he is in the team?" when he can't kick, read the play, gets in jacks way, fails to block, fails to capitalize on jacks good work, fumbles, can't kick beyond 40m, takes his defender straight to Jack, has no respect by any opposition defender. Etc etc etc.
Firstly, I thought I was commenting on the game against GWS not a game from weeks ago so I don't need to watch THAT replay. It is not relevant to this discussion about this game = GWS
It seems to me it wouldn't matter what he does facts are you have made up your mind and that's your choice but please don't keep harping back to game that is history at least deal with the most recent game
ok WP obviously you only read part of my posts.
Then watch the replay of this game then and watch closely how many times he fails.
And why didn't you answer my question that I asked in that post?
I'll ask another question, will he be there in 2014? If not then what's the point playing him anywhere but coburg where he can help teach the youngsters?
Now that's funny you say I don't read all of your post well I could say the same so I suggest you read mine.
I said in my original post that I hadn't watched the replay and my comments were based on what I saw at the actual game. I intend to watch the replay today
BTW all the things you highlighted about the Bombers game which you are now saying he did or didn't do in the GWS game are the things that at the game I saw him to do eg the blocking, 1%ers etc. But as I said I'll watch the replay and I'll look to see what the TV shows as opposed to what you see when you are at a game
In answer to your other question - will he be there in 2014? - to be honest and you're not going to like this my answer is I really don't know as IMV it is going to depend on how the young blokes are coming along. Do you keep him for insurance in 2014 in case things goes "pear shaped" with the similar sized young blokes on the list
FWIW I reckon the blokes that are on the list who you would think are going to take his place are: Post, Astbusry, Elton and perhaps Griffiths (though the Club seem determined to have him as a defender). I dont' include Derickx as I see him as a ruckman and pinch hitter up forward and I think there are real doubts he will be there in 2014. As for this call for Gus to be played as a forward - well no he is a ruckman and not a very mobile one at that so how people can think he can be a relatively mobile forward certainly confuses me
Again IMV, Post will be gone at the end of the season. You and others can say they should play him but if at Coburg he isn't doing the things they want him to do to warrant selection then why play him?
Astbury: there are massive questions marks here like there are with anyone who's coming off a major knee injury. Simple fact is right now they are taking it very slowly with him and I for one applaud the Club for taking this approach.
Elton: played Coburg ressies on Saturday which either suggest he's a long way off AFL level or they were trying to give a full game of footy. I hope it was the latter but having said that I don't think anyone can read too much into anyone playing well at that level because the gap in standard between VFL & VFL ressies is massive. So again there a question marks over where he sits in being ready for AFL footy.
***BTW I haven't inlcuded Vickery because he is a long termer as this year has shown despite his form being terrible for most of the season (would say he has gone backwards actually). So Miller isn't and wont keep him out of the side
So as to why is playing in the seniors? Simple answer is the coaches want him there because they think he is the best option for us right now because he plays the role they want. And another thing Dimma loves the way he plays and what he brings to the team and at the end of the day that's far more important that what we think :thumbsup
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You understand bradley was delisted by Mfc. When Mfc had arguably the weakest list and close to the youngest in last 150 years?
Yeh I do
I also understand he was delisted by the same MFC that less than 12 months later sacked the very coach that delisted him (Miller) and and sacked their then captain James MacDonald causing massive friction at the said MFC
I also understand that despite having tanked for high draft picks that gave them the chance at the very best talent in the country the MFC has currently close to the worst list in the competition because they believed Jackie Watts was a better option than Nic Nat ;D and that the same Jackie Watts was a better key forward for them "short term" than Bradley
So what exactly is your point? The many levels of stupidity shown by the MFC over the last 3 years or the fact that perhaps the MFC made a mistake shafting senior players ;D
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I suggest you both watch the replay again and the replay of the game against the bombers and ask yourself, "what point is there that he is in the team?" when he can't kick, read the play, gets in jacks way, fails to block, fails to capitalize on jacks good work, fumbles, can't kick beyond 40m, takes his defender straight to Jack, has no respect by any opposition defender. Etc etc etc.
Firstly, I thought I was commenting on the game against GWS not a game from weeks ago so I don't need to watch THAT replay. It is not relevant to this discussion about this game = GWS
It seems to me it wouldn't matter what he does facts are you have made up your mind and that's your choice but please don't keep harping back to game that is history at least deal with the most recent game
ok WP obviously you only read part of my posts.
Then watch the replay of this game then and watch closely how many times he fails.
And why didn't you answer my question that I asked in that post?
I'll ask another question, will he be there in 2014? If not then what's the point playing him anywhere but coburg where he can help teach the youngsters?
So as to why is playing in the seniors? Simple answer is the coaches want him there because they think he is the best option for us right now because he plays the role they want. And another thing Dimma loves the way he plays and what he brings to the team and at the end of the day that's far more important that what we think :thumbsup
if dimma loves him so much then why was he dropped after his essendon game?
Initially some posters thought miller was there to help develop our young forwards. That's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.
I think this year there's absolutely nothing wrong with gifting games to the youngsters to find out if they're capable or to fastrack development because this year is a critical development year.
Tell GWS not to play Cameron or Patton because they are too young.... Stupid.
All you Miller lovers will soon learn by next year if we don't find another option at chf we will be stuffed for atleast 2 more years with no option at Chf. And God help us if Jack gets injured.
If we want to play finals next year and be a serious threat by 2014 then we need to find a kpp before this year is out because Miller isn't the answer and won't be by 2014. FACT.
And fwiw, I would play griff @ chf and leave him there for the rest of the season. Then we will find out whether or not he's the option for the future.
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Enter C.Schwab.lol
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Enter C.Schwab.lol
and tell us again jackstar... How many goals did you tell us Miller was going to kick against the kids????
8
:thatsgold :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL
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if dimma loves him so much then why was he dropped after his essendon game?
Gee I dont' know maybe because he had a bad game... can you beleive they actually dropped someone for a bad game? Pity they don't do it for a few others
Initially some posters thought miller was there to help develop our young forwards. That's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.
So are you saying that Dimma is lying? Seeing that's what was originally said when he was drafted ;D
I think this year there's absolutely nothing wrong with gifting games to the youngsters to find out if they're capable or to fastrack development because this year is a critical development year.
Tell GWS not to play Cameron or Patton because they are too young.... Stupid.
So using your argument GWS shouldn't have recruited MacDonald (outstanding leader), Brogan, O'Halpin or Cornes (dont agree with it myself but the point is the same) because it should be kids all the way should it? No senior players to protect the kids just play play kids at all costs right?
All you Miller lovers will soon learn by next year if we don't find another option at chf we will be stuffed for atleast 2 more years with no option at Chf. And God help us if Jack gets injured.
If we want to play finals next year and be a serious threat by 2014 then we need to find a kpp before this year is out because Miller isn't the answer and won't be by 2014. FACT.
You asked a question I have my opinion which you don't agree with and that's fair enough but as it stands right now we don't have that many options; certainly none that are demanding his spot. Rather than bagging Miller why don't you question why the Posts of this world aren't doing enough to demand his spot? To me that's a far more important question than whether Brad Miller should be on the list in 2013
And fwiw, I would play griff @ chf and leave him there for the rest of the season. Then we will find out whether or not he's the option for the future.
FWIW I actually agree with you. I'd certainly give Griffiths a shot up forward
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Enter C.Schwab.lol
and tell us again jackstar... How many goals did you tell us Miller was going to kick against the kids????
8
:thatsgold :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL
You win goose of the year
It rained the entire game you imbecile
For what it's worth would take Brad over Ty any day
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if dimma loves him so much then why was he dropped after his essendon game?
Gee I dont' know maybe because he had a bad game... can you beleive they actually dropped someone for a bad game? Pity they don't do it for a few others
Initially some posters thought miller was there to help develop our young forwards. That's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.
So are you saying that Dimma is lying? Seeing that's what was originally said when he was drafted ;D
I think this year there's absolutely nothing wrong with gifting games to the youngsters to find out if they're capable or to fastrack development because this year is a critical development year.
Tell GWS not to play Cameron or Patton because they are too young.... Stupid.
So using your argument GWS shouldn't have recruited MacDonald (outstanding leader), Brogan, O'Halpin or Cornes (dont agree with it myself but the point is the same) because it should be kids all the way should it? No senior players to protect the kids just play play kids at all costs right?
All you Miller lovers will soon learn by next year if we don't find another option at chf we will be stuffed for atleast 2 more years with no option at Chf. And God help us if Jack gets injured.
If we want to play finals next year and be a serious threat by 2014 then we need to find a kpp before this year is out because Miller isn't the answer and won't be by 2014. FACT.
You asked a question I have my opinion which you don't agree with and that's fair enough but as it stands right now we don't have that many options; certainly none that are demanding his spot. Rather than bagging Miller why don't you question why the Posts of this world aren't doing enough to demand his spot? To me that's a far more important question than whether Brad Miller should be on the list in 2013
And fwiw, I would play griff @ chf and leave him there for the rest of the season. Then we will find out whether or not he's the option for the future.
FWIW I actually agree with you. I'd certainly give Griffiths a shot up forward
firstly we have enough leaders in the f50 (Jack & Jake).
Play post, if he's no good get rid of him. He ain't gonna get any better in the magoos. Atleast by playing him he learns quicker, you find out if he can make it and he may even get some currency for a possible trade.
Remember this year is a critical year for our team development moving forward.
and GWS needed some senior players to help we already have some.
On Griff, hopefully they'll play him at chf when grimes comes back. :thumbsup
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Enter C.Schwab.lol
and tell us again jackstar... How many goals did you tell us Miller was going to kick against the kids????
8
:thatsgold :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL
You win goose of the year
It rained the entire game you imbecile
For what it's worth would take Brad over Ty any day
interesting that you have resorted to name calling which I have never done to you.
Ok it rained but Cameron, Jack, and Patton had no trouble.
Let's look at anything else we can see of millers game.
10 possies
4 marks.
0 contested marks
0 goal assists.
0 goals.
Not good enough in my opinion. Have Vickery in ahead of him any day of the week and would be picked ahead of Miller by every other coach in the league if had the choice between the 2 of them.
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Let's look at anything else we can see of millers game.
10 possies
4 marks.
0 contested marks
0 goal assists.
0 goals.
Not good enough in my opinion.
Your right, it isn't good enough, and the fact he is still getting games in front of Vickery tells us how bad he (TV) is going at the moment.
Vickery needs to find that form from last year, and if he does and maintains it, then Miller won't be playing again. Can't understand why we are bashing Miller because of Vickery's lack of form. :banghead
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At least you know what you get with Brad
You dont know what lame effort you are going to get week to week with Vickery.
His smiling and carry on half time against Freo pretty well sums it up
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At least you know what you get with Brad
9 touches.
V Few goals. Very short kicking ability.
A turning circle of a boat and a defender that will rank up lots of easy ball and make jacks job tougher.
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Just watched the replay - interesting indeed
No mention of his involvement in the Connors goal in the final qtr - mark, kick pass to Jackson who kicked it long tot he top of the square, Jack handballs it onto Connors
No mention of the shepherd he put on in the 3rd to allow Grigg to storm forward and kick 40+ metres into space for Edwards who over ran the ball
No mention of his tackle on Davis in the 3rd at the top of the goal square
No mention of his block for Nahas in the 2nd
These are just a few examples I've what I saw on the day that are a clear as a daylight on the replay but for whatever reasons seems to have been ingnored for convienience. ;D
People ask why he is in the side? The above (the 1 %ers) are a couple of reasons why he gets games.
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Go thou the game again and tell us the batchelor 1%ers / prec acts that you have not shared with us?
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At least you know what you get with Brad
9 touches.
V Few goals. Very short kicking ability.
A turning circle of a boat and a defender that will rank up lots of easy ball and make jacks job tougher.
excellent Bents. Great post. 100% correct. :thumbsup
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At least you know what you get with Brad
You dont know what lame effort you are going to get week to week with Vickery.
His smiling and carry on half time against Freo pretty well sums it up
TV at 50% is already better than brad at 100%.
We all saw what he's capable of last year which is miles ahead of what brad can only dream of but don't let my opinion stop you from apologizing for calling me names.
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Just watched the replay - interesting indeed
No mention of his involvement in the Connors goal in the final qtr - mark, kick pass to Jackson who kicked it long tot he top of the square, Jack handballs it onto Connors
No mention of the shepherd he put on in the 3rd to allow Grigg to storm forward and kick 40+ metres into space for Edwards who over ran the ball
No mention of his tackle on Davis in the 3rd at the top of the goal square
No mention of his block for Nahas in the 2nd
These are just a few examples I've what I saw on the day that are a clear as a daylight on the replay but for whatever reasons seems to have been ingnored for convienience. ;D
People ask why he is in the side? The above (the 1 %ers) are a couple of reasons why he gets games.
WP
It's pointless discussing this with complete nuffers
If Vickery ever laid a block or a shepherd would be a first
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At least you know what you get with Brad
You dont know what lame effort you are going to get week to week with Vickery.
His smiling and carry on half time against Freo pretty well sums it up
TV at 50% is already better than brad at 100%.
We all saw what he's capable of last year which is miles ahead of what brad can only dream of but don't let my opinion stop you from apologizing for calling me names.
Do you actually watch and understand football ?
Vickery has never blocked for his team mates or laid a shepherd this year
Pointless me discussing any further with complete idiots
Watch the game
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Vickery is worthy on his rucking alone. At which miller is horrid.
Let alone astbury elton post moore ohanlon
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Agree
Have watched Vickery's games twice and he does everything Miller does with the added bonus he can touch his toes and spoon feed his mids at ruck contests, and kick more than 30 metres
There's no point arguing with nuffers bentleigh
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Vickery is worthy on his rucking alone. At which miller is horrid.
Let alone astbury elton post moore ohanlon
You have no idea
Watch the Saints game
Vickery in ruck against Jason Blake of all people in last quarter and we got flogged in the middle for a 5 min period
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Agree
Have watched Vickery's games twice and he does everything Miller does with the added bonus he can touch his toes and spoon feed his mids at ruck contests, and kick more than 30 metres
There's no point arguing with nuffers bentleigh
Yep.no point .
Vickery in the last quarter against Jason Blake who ain't a ruckman and Vickery got flogged
Time to de activate my account
Way too many morons on here
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2012 vickery has six times as many hitouts to miller.
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Jason Blake has played finals footy as a ruckman and almost got the Saints to a GF. Most underrated player in history and it is disgraceful that he's never had a Brownlow vote.
Most Miller has ever kicked in a season is 25. Jackstar's ex favourite Richmond player, Jay Schulz, has 29 from 8 games at a poo club. But no, let's talk up Miller and defend him 24/7. Seriously, what is the point of defending Miller by saying "well Vickery is worse"??? So what, neither of them have played well enough up forward. Vickery played one good game as a forward (this year) and Miller has contributed well in a couple too. Other than that they have both struggled. Vickery at least gives Maric a chop out in the ruck.
At the end of the day all this shows is that Miller isn't good enough and we need our young talls to come on quickly. We also need Vickery to get a move on.
Sick of arguing about Brad Miller. Nice bloke but what the stuff is he still going here? He must be sharing his wife with Dimma and the other coaches. This reminds me of the ol' days, debating about blokes like Tambo and Hughes
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please spare me, finals footy as a ruckman ::)
Jason Blake has rarely played ruck FACT
Has been used down back .
5 years ago he was used a tagger on Judd.
pointless discussing with idiots
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please spare me, finals footy as a ruckman ::)
Jason Blake has rarely played ruck FACT
Has been used down back .
5 years ago he was used a tagger on Judd.
pointless discussing with idiots
No wonder why you got sacked. He was pinch hitting for Trent Knobel for years. He gets used down back because he's a quality defender. Riewoldt couldn't get a kick on him in the 3rd quarter of our game a few weeks back. Then they moved him into the ruck and he helped get them back into the game but they had no one to play on Jack after that.
Playing as a tagger on JUDD shows that Blake is good utility. Can play ruck. Are you telling me Lynch was a poo CHB because he ended up playing more as a forward?
stuff me dead, you are the dumbest moron to grace the internet.
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I love how you ignore everything said about Miller in my post. If you didn't know him personally, you'd be kicking him in the guts like you do to every other player on our list.
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At least you know what you get with Brad
You dont know what lame effort you are going to get week to week with Vickery.
His smiling and carry on half time against Freo pretty well sums it up
TV at 50% is already better than brad at 100%.
We all saw what he's capable of last year which is miles ahead of what brad can only dream of but don't let my opinion stop you from apologizing for calling me names.
Do you actually watch and understand football ?
Vickery has never blocked for his team mates or laid a shepherd this year
Pointless me discussing any further with complete idiots
Watch the game
Ok. I asked nicely but now i'm peeed off.
Most of what you have posted over the years I've agreed with and I've enjoyed reading but on the odd occasion I disagree you call me a nuffer then you called me an imbecile and now you have called me an idiot.
I have debated fairly ever since posting on this forum and I've NEVER shown you the disrepect you have shown me for what???? Having a different opinion about a poo second rate reject in Brad Miller.
There's really no reason to resort to such childish depths on a forum which encourages rants and good natured debate.
Extremely poor form Jackstar i'm personally very disappointed in you. :banghead :banghead
That said you asked if I understand or watched games. I'm not an expert but I watch alot of footy both live and on tv.
What I don't do is make outlandish predictions on good vfl players like you did with Miller. ie Miller will kick 8 goals.
:shh
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Miller to kick 8 :lol My prediction of 8 disposals was closer to the mark.
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Enter C.Schwab.lol
and tell us again jackstar... How many goals did you tell us Miller was going to kick against the kids????
8
:thatsgold :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL :ROTFL
You win goose of the year
It rained the entire game you imbecile
Didn't stop the proverbial hack Connors from taking overhead grabs and kicking 3, so what's Millers excuse?
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please spare me, finals footy as a ruckman ::)
Jason Blake has rarely played ruck FACT
Has been used down back .
5 years ago he was used a tagger on Judd.
pointless discussing with idiots
You know what it means when a person thinks everyone around them is the idiot? :help
:stupid
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At least you know what you get with Brad
9 touches.
V Few goals. Very short kicking ability.
A turning circle of a boat and a defender that will rank up lots of easy ball and make jacks job tougher.
yet thats probably more than vickery has given in most of his games this yr.
two wrongs dont make it right. as has been said ad nauseum vickery has had 9 games this yr has been as poor as you can get in all 9, yes worse than miller and he hasnt been dropped once.
at what stage do we just say enough is enough we cant cant carry you anymore and we go down the development path rtather than play miller.
to me the club has got two things wrong. 1/ they refuse to drop vickery despite him being the shittiest tall in the comp for 9 weeks and 2/ they keep on playing miller instead of getting games into others even if they arent on fire at coburg. what happened to develoment. sometimes to develop you have to give a kid a game deserving or not. our list sreams at us. play the kids tiges play the kids find some who can get us where we want to go.
if people think we are a genuine finals side with a list capable of playing in sustained finals series they are kidding themselves.
we must cut deep again and embrace the draft in a big way again. just too many glass half full players on the list to sustain a thing. fr to many younger players who we have no idea about at afl level still. this yr was always about development and i reckon the club and supporters have lost sight of that.
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Houli has played every game possible since his arrival
His use of ball is excellent
In a team that were the biggest butchers of turning the ball over
I give up discussing football on here
Houli a emergency is a joke
his ball use is v/good under no pressure. mate hes a limited player. panics under pressure in fact he poos himself. he doesnt have the ability to buy time or the awareness to play in the midfield except as an outside running player to me thats a limited player. to me hes defensively poor and that makes him limited. i can go on if you like.
yes atm hes best 22 but im not entirely on about best 22 im looking a little further down the track.
when the likes of houli become our 25th best player or so we will have a side that can win a premiership. to me hes on the cusp as a minimum of what players need to bring to the table.
there are ten on the list i would not hesitate to play in the midfield in front of him. he cant play forward he doesnt have the attributes. its left the loose role across hb where he can use his good footskills. i reckon we could easily find in time a player with good footskills who isnt lacking in the areas houli is.
yes hes played some decent footy yes hes played most games but that doesnt mean we cant do better.
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And yet dea.is not best 22
& u nae like newman
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At least you know what you get with Brad
9 touches.
V Few goals. Very short kicking ability.
A turning circle of a boat and a defender that will rank up lots of easy ball and make jacks job tougher.
yet thats probably more than vickery has given in most of his games this yr.
two wrongs dont make it right. as has been said ad nauseum vickery has had 9 games this yr has been as poor as you can get in all 9, yes worse than miller and he hasnt been dropped once.
at what stage do we just say enough is enough we cant cant carry you anymore and we go down the development path rtather than play miller.
to me the club has got two things wrong. 1/ they refuse to drop vickery despite him being the pootiest tall in the comp for 9 weeks and 2/ they keep on playing miller instead of getting games into others even if they arent on fire at coburg. what happened to develoment. sometimes to develop you have to give a kid a game deserving or not. our list sreams at us. play the kids tiges play the kids find some who can get us where we want to go.
if people think we are a genuine finals side with a list capable of playing in sustained finals series they are kidding themselves.
we must cut deep again and embrace the draft in a big way again. just too many glass half full players on the list to sustain a thing. fr to many younger players who we have no idea about at afl level still. this yr was always about development and i reckon the club and supporters have lost sight of that.
98% agree with that
Although you still have to win games of football
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Agree
Have watched Vickery's games twice and he does everything Miller does with the added bonus he can touch his toes and spoon feed his mids at ruck contests, and kick more than 30 metres
There's no point arguing with nuffers bentleigh
Yep.no point .
Vickery in the last quarter against Jason Blake who ain't a ruckman and Vickery got flogged
Time to de activate my account
Way too many morons on here
Before you do Jack,
Did you see that,
He was tired from the lead mark and goal he kicked from 50 that put us 15 points up in the last. ;D
Miller would have led possibly marked and if he did have the shot at goal the ball would have dropped 5 metres out. ;D ;D
Yes Jack he is doing the one % but Vicks has more upside as do other kids. Unfortunantely they are not demanding this spot.
I am hopeful Astbury or Griffiths take CHF in the future.
Lamentably until this, Miller unfortunantely will be a chance at the selection table.
Personally I want a kid to stand up and send him back to Coburg, for good.
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And yet dea.is not best 22
& u nae like newman
sorry did i leave dea out that was an over sight. as one who has backed him in before this yr that is certainly an oversight.
nope didnt say i dont like newman in fact have always thought him to be a good honsest player.
thing is chris newman is struggling. yes he plays the odd good game probably more than the odd good one. but hes clearly on a down hill spiral and it wont get any better at what 31 next yr.
reckon morris has performed better after what 12 games as a medium defender than chris in most of his career. time to look past chris imo and ensure when he goes theres someone performing in our system.
batchelor is the future as is any of conca ellis helbig. though i think batchelor atm is struggling he really needs to be much cleaner than he is. the fumbles are doing my head in.
as i said to jack i dont necesarily post in the now im looking at when we may be a real contender.
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I am all for promoting a kid
Problem is there isn't one to promote
Conclusion .Give Astbury at least another 4-5 weeks.Bring him in and push Griffiths forward
Can't see Post making it
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I am all for promoting a kid
Problem is there isn't one to promote
Conclusion .Give Astbury at least another 4-5 weeks.Bring him in and push Griffiths forward
Can't see Post making it
this is where we disagree. there are players to promote even if for no other reason than giving them a taste of the big time, sheesh for two yrs we did exactly that with a lot of kids and to a degree it worked why does it have to magically stop.
elton showed heaps in the preseason he can only be stronger 4 months later. with good players around him play him as a third tall if for no other reason than giving him a taste for two or three games. with vickery and miller so poor what harm can it do in fact it makes it the right time to do it.
on post well i reckon hes given more in his one game than vickery has all yr. he has also has done no worse than griffiths to date. we give griffiths blocks of games regardless but cant do the same for post.
we have to give this bloke a DECENT GO AT IT we have to give him the chance to prove himself at afl level. one game here one game there is killing him.
on astbury play him at chf and leave griffiths where he is for now. theres nothing stopping us giving post 4 or 5 weeks and if hes failed bring astbury in. if not post elton, do wiuth him what we did for vickery griffiths astbury etc we gave em all games for the experience and we gave em all blocks of games.
vickery if he has any intestinal fortitude can play at coburg for 4 or 5 weeks and find some form and work his way back into the team. miller should permanently stay at coburg to gyuide the kids from there.
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he (post) has also has done no worse than griffiths to date
you've got to be joking?
griffiths has never looked so lost and out of his depth as post has.
as for
"why does it have to magically stop."
well it's not magic, it's just what the plan was from the start.
first two years development ie getting 500 games into the kids, then a change of focus in the third.
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he (post) has also has done no worse than griffiths to date
you've got to be joking?
griffiths has never looked so lost and out of his depth as post has.
as for
"why does it have to magically stop."
well it's not magic, it's just what the plan was from the start.
first two years development ie getting 500 games into the kids, then a change of focus in the third.
disagree post has done no worse than griffiths but griffiths is the annointed one.
the focus does not have to change but surely the plan is flexible and caters to circumstance. it seems not.
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Post was a disgrace round 1.
As he hasnt improved on his recent showings at Coburg
Elton, you would have to be joking
Plays development squad at the weekend and you want to play him at Richmond
Huge difference between Coburg and AFL.
The development squad is worse than local footy.
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Did post not kick 5 in a quarter?
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Think Miller has a lot to offer.
Kicked 10 in an VFL game this year.
Way too many experts on this forum, you should try getting a job at a club ;)
Brad kicked 10.
However.
Huge diff between vfl and afl.
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Post was a disgrace round 1.
As he hasnt improved on his recent showings at Coburg
Elton, you would have to be joking
Plays development squad at the weekend and you want to play him at Richmond
Huge difference between Coburg and AFL.
The development squad is worse than local footy.
lol disgrace my arse.
he wasnt great more than anything made skill errors than defensive ones. came off a pretty decent pre season and was banished never to be seen. how did both rance and griffiths go in the sopping wet against two boys. post has hardly been worse than griffiths yet hes banned for life never to be seen again.
elton played at coburg reserves because of the rotation system they play too many talls in the seniors every week and talls have to go back.
the seniors cant win because theres not enough drive and mids and the talls have to go play thirds.
to me elton is the most talented tall forward we have outside of jack we should be getting a game or two into him just like we did with vickery griffiths rance etc when they did nothing to warrant it.
elton showed pre season he can play against men. what is so different now to las yr or the yr before. the answer is nothing we still need to get as many games as we can into as many kids as we can without sacrificing too much. we would not be sacrificing a thing if we played either of post or elton in place of vickey or miller. my granny can not perform that poorly.
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Did post not kick 5 in a quarter?
yeah, he did.
I'm definitely on the play post forward bandwagon, because he has been horrible when playing down back for richmond
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he (post) has also has done no worse than griffiths to date
you've got to be joking?
griffiths has never looked so lost and out of his depth as post has.
as for
"why does it have to magically stop."
well it's not magic, it's just what the plan was from the start.
first two years development ie getting 500 games into the kids, then a change of focus in the third.
disagree post has done no worse than griffiths but griffiths is the annointed one.
the focus does not have to change but surely the plan is flexible and caters to circumstance. it seems not.
griffiths has at least looked comfortable, while not excelling.
Post is...what is you say? Deer in the headlights sort of stuff. looks lost and out of his depth.
Elton will play when the MC reckon he is ready, and they wont base their opinion on 3 or 4 good bits of play in a pre season mickey mouse game.
If elton showed he can play against men then derrickx showed he can take strong contested marks against the best the year before
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Think Miller has a lot to offer.
Kicked 10 in an VFL game this year.
Way too many experts on this forum, you should try getting a job at a club ;)
Brad kicked 10.
However.
Huge diff between vfl and afl.
Cant remember any Richmond player going back to Coburg and kicking 5 goals let alone 10 :banghead
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Post was a disgrace round 1.
As he hasnt improved on his recent showings at Coburg
Elton, you would have to be joking
Plays development squad at the weekend and you want to play him at Richmond
Huge difference between Coburg and AFL.
The development squad is worse than local footy.
lol disgrace my behind.
he wasnt great more than anything made skill errors than defensive ones. came off a pretty decent pre season and was banished never to be seen. how did both rance and griffiths go in the sopping wet against two boys. post has hardly been worse than griffiths yet hes banned for life never to be seen again.
elton played at coburg reserves because of the rotation system they play too many talls in the seniors every week and talls have to go back.
the seniors cant win because theres not enough drive and mids and the talls have to go play thirds.
to me elton is the most talented tall forward we have outside of jack we should be getting a game or two into him just like we did with vickery griffiths rance etc when they did nothing to warrant it.
elton showed pre season he can play against men. what is so different now to las yr or the yr before. the answer is nothing we still need to get as many games as we can into as many kids as we can without sacrificing too much. we would not be sacrificing a thing if we played either of post or elton in place of vickey or miller. my granny can not perform that poorly.
Can tell you he was disgraceful and dropped accordingly
Coaches were pulling 'their hair out "' over his performance
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Cant remember any Richmond player going back to Coburg and kicking 5 goals let alone 10 :banghead
Schulz kicked 8 in one half for Coburg. Twice the player Miller is.
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Cant remember any Richmond player going back to Coburg and kicking 5 goals let alone 10 :banghead
Schulz kicked 8 in one half for Coburg. Twice the player Miller is.
Was 7 by memory against Geelong at Coburg ;)
2007/2008 ?
Thats 5 years ago
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Cant remember any Richmond player going back to Coburg and kicking 5 goals let alone 10 :banghead
Schulz kicked 8 in one half for Coburg. Twice the player Miller is.
Was 7 by memory against Geelong at Coburg ;)
2007/2008 ?
Thats 5 years ago
No, 2009. Kicked 9 against Werribee that year too. Also kicked 7 in a half on Lachie Hansen in 2007. Finished the game with 10.
Stop riding millers nuts
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Correct
poo memory from some nuffers
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Post was a disgrace round 1.
As he hasnt improved on his recent showings at Coburg
Elton, you would have to be joking
Plays development squad at the weekend and you want to play him at Richmond
Huge difference between Coburg and AFL.
The development squad is worse than local footy.
lol disgrace my behind.
Sorry claw but he was disgraceful round 1. Hence, why he was rightly dropped
If you think pulling out of a contest because your about to get hit is OK then you can say Post was great
If you think dropping your head after dropping a sitter mark and then refusing to chase the oppostition because you are too busy sulking then you can say Post had a fantastic game
Sad thing was this wasn't the first time he's done those type of things and for a bloke his size he shouldn't be doing those type of things
There's an old saying "built like Tarzan plays like Jane" unfortunately that was Post in round 1
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vegemite cheeks
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So we all agree Brad Miller stays :thumbsup ;)
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LMAO at the craw, who expects every player to be AA quality, hugging post's hairless nuts.
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LMAO at the craw, who expects every player to be AA quality, hugging post's hairless nuts.
Posty metrosexual?
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Miller is consistent. He is experienced. He is a good player.
At this stage Miller is a perfect backup/depth forward particularly when he is surrounded by very talented but young and erratic forwards. When they lose form and confidence Miller is a perfect stopgap. In a couple of years our forwards will be both more experienced and consistent and then Miller can become a full time coach for us.
The very fact that Miller is still getting a game speaks more about the other forwards than him
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Miller is consistent. He is experienced. He is a good player.
At this stage Miller is a perfect backup/depth forward particularly when he is surrounded by very talented but young and erratic forwards. When they lose form and confidence Miller is a perfect stopgap. In a couple of years our forwards will be both more experienced and consistent and then Miller can become a full time coach for us.
The very fact that Miller is still getting a game speaks more about the other forwards than him
totally agree Stripes.
Miller has his limitations but plays his role.
TV this year is clearly struggling - almost like he has second year blues. The half time dance/smile/call it whatever you like was not his finest moment. Showed not enough desire and hurt (he may have had the desire and hurt inside but outwardly it didnt show).
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Miller is consistent. He is experienced. He is a good player.
At this stage Miller is a perfect backup/depth forward particularly when he is surrounded by very talented but young and erratic forwards. When they lose form and confidence Miller is a perfect stopgap. In a couple of years our forwards will be both more experienced and consistent and then Miller can become a full time coach for us.
The very fact that Miller is still getting a game speaks more about the other forwards than him
That is an excellent post indeed Stripes
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Miller is consistent. He is experienced. He is a good player.
At this stage Miller is a perfect backup/depth forward particularly when he is surrounded by very talented but young and erratic forwards. When they lose form and confidence Miller is a perfect stopgap. In a couple of years our forwards will be both more experienced and consistent and then Miller can become a full time coach for us.
The very fact that Miller is still getting a game speaks more about the other forwards than him
Stripes, thats more than an excellent post :thumbsup
Until another player starts ''knocking down the door "", Brad plays his role
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i dont think they have to be knocking the door down, jacko, just show a bit of consistence in doing what is asked of them by the coaches, at a level that suggests they can make the next step.
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i dont think they have to be knocking the door down, jacko, just show a bit of consistence in doing what is asked of them by the coaches, at a level that suggests they can make the next step.
Although I reckon young players should demand games by performance
No harm in a young player stepping up at VFL level kicking a bag two weeks in a row, and then saying that there ready to play AFL.
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Post was a disgrace round 1.
As he hasnt improved on his recent showings at Coburg
Elton, you would have to be joking
Plays development squad at the weekend and you want to play him at Richmond
Huge difference between Coburg and AFL.
The development squad is worse than local footy.
lol disgrace my behind.
Sorry claw but he was disgraceful round 1. Hence, why he was rightly dropped
If you think pulling out of a contest because your about to get hit is OK then you can say Post was great
If you think dropping your head after dropping a sitter mark and then refusing to chase the oppostition because you are too busy sulking then you can say Post had a fantastic game
Sad thing was this wasn't the first time he's done those type of things and for a bloke his size he shouldn't be doing those type of things
There's an old saying "built like Tarzan plays like Jane" unfortunately that was Post in round 1
.... And Miller v bombers. :lol
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i dont think they have to be knocking the door down, jacko, just show a bit of consistence in doing what is asked of them by the coaches, at a level that suggests they can make the next step.
excellent post Al. :thumbsup
a youngster at 50% is better than what Miller can dream of producing.
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i dont think they have to be knocking the door down, jacko, just show a bit of consistence in doing what is asked of them by the coaches, at a level that suggests they can make the next step.
excellent post Al. :thumbsup
a youngster at 50% is better than what Miller can dream of producing.
Think you better re-read al's post
Key words being "consistency in doing what is asked of them by the coaches"
That again whether you like it or not is the reason they don't get games and Miller does
.... And Miller v bombers. :lol
Sorry Mr Tigra but that's a cheap shot
I understand you don't like Miller and that's your right
But to suggest he pulls out of contests and refuses to take hits and sulks on the field when he makes a mistake is just plain wrong.
It actually makes you look foolish and any statement you make about him seem pointless even with these :lol :lol :lol added at the end
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i dont think they have to be knocking the door down, jacko, just show a bit of consistence in doing what is asked of them by the coaches, at a level that suggests they can make the next step.
:clapping
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i dont think they have to be knocking the door down, jacko, just show a bit of consistence in doing what is asked of them by the coaches, at a level that suggests they can make the next step.
excellent post Al. :thumbsup
a youngster at 50% is better than what Miller can dream of producing.
Think you better re-read al's post
Key words being "consistency in doing what is asked of them by the coaches"
That again whether you like it or not is the reason they don't get games and Miller does
.... And Miller v bombers. :lol
Sorry Mr Tigra but that's a cheap shot
I understand you don't like Miller and that's your right
But to suggest he pulls out of contests and refuses to take hits and sulks on the field when he makes a mistake is just plain wrong.
It actually makes you look foolish and any statement you make about him seem pointless even with these :lol :lol :lol added at the end
not as foolish as playing him in the seniors when we need to find someone else. Fast.
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Hard to find someone if they ain't there
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Miller is consistent. He is experienced. He is a good player.
At this stage Miller is a perfect backup/depth forward particularly when he is surrounded by very talented but young and erratic forwards. When they lose form and confidence Miller is a perfect stopgap. In a couple of years our forwards will be both more experienced and consistent and then Miller can become a full time coach for us.
The very fact that Miller is still getting a game speaks more about the other forwards than him
well said Striped one.
The angst rises from Brads across the board ability to kick crooked,drop marks etc,making it hard for most to see his full role as an older,stronger bodied decoy/possible goal kicker.
It's just where we are right now
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Post was a disgrace round 1.
As he hasnt improved on his recent showings at Coburg
Elton, you would have to be joking
Plays development squad at the weekend and you want to play him at Richmond
Huge difference between Coburg and AFL.
The development squad is worse than local footy.
lol disgrace my behind.
Sorry claw but he was disgraceful round 1. Hence, why he was rightly dropped
If you think pulling out of a contest because your about to get hit is OK then you can say Post was great
If you think dropping your head after dropping a sitter mark and then refusing to chase the oppostition because you are too busy sulking then you can say Post had a fantastic game
Sad thing was this wasn't the first time he's done those type of things and for a bloke his size he shouldn't be doing those type of things
There's an old saying "built like Tarzan plays like Jane" unfortunately that was Post in round 1
no worse than others especially vickery.
seems to me this bloke has been delisted already the way he is talked about by supporters and treated by the club.
his penance has been 10 weeks at coburg. all im saying is give him another go performance wise he can hardly do worse than blokes like vickery and miller who lets face it performance wise have been very ordinary most of the yr. and for that matter griffiths who is clearly learning the ropes and has struggled at times.
ffs drad miller i cant for the life of me see why we give him games hes not the way forward he hardly tears it up at coburg yet we continue to play bhim. development goes out the window while we chase wins.
just my opinion but we are going backwards while we are winning.
we play so many players who will keep us mired in mediocrity king nahas houli jackson rance at times. edwards though hes done his job the last 5 weeks, now connors, miller for 9 games this yr.
at the same time we reward younger players games on end despite them doing little a case in point vickery if we are talking pea hearts has to be the biggest one of all at the club.
all im asking is we drop vickery and miller for a while and give blokes like post and or elto a block of games. you would think im asking for the crown jewels from the royals the way people carry on.
im sick to death of this theres no other option bull dust there are other options we just have to take them.
if your car has a flat tyre you stop and change it no matter what unless you want to destroy your tyre and rim. well miller and vickery are our flat tyres time to change them regardless of the options.
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no, miller is the spare tyre, metaphorically, like that dinky spare found in the boot of performance cars.
It wont get you going at full performance, but it does a job, of sorts, until you get the proper one fitted.
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Miller is consistent. He is experienced. He is a good player.
*Consistently poo. *Experienced at being poo. *He is a poo player
No disrespect. It's just the way it is. Mick Malthouse has a grandson that offers more.
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Every chance he could be re signed for 2 years :shh
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150 games Plus
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150 games Plus
and 100 goals. Good effort for a key forward.
Poor mans Royce Vardy this chap.
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Just goes to show what a dill you really are Coach Davey
I Watched Melbourne consistently for a number of years and Brad did play a lot of games at CHB
He is also highly regarded by his team mates at punt rd and by his ex team mates at Melbourne
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Just goes to show what a dill you really are Coach Davey
I Watched Melbourne consistently for a number of years and Brad did play a lot of games at CHB
He is also highly regarded by his team mates at punt rd and by his ex team mates at Melbourne
Got a mate involved with Melbourne. Brad played no more than 30 games at CHB. LOL at 30 being a lot of footy for a bloke that's played 150 games. Any decent key forward averages more than 0.7 goals per game. Funny thing is, Brad is having his best ever season this year. This is his best ever season :lol
No wonder why you got sacked you absolute nuffer. You bag everyone but defend Miller because you know him.
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That last line wouldve been funny CD had I not been munching on food
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I choose to blame Miller for the 2012 Melbourne Earthquake >:(
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I have tried being nice about this because he is a Richmond player, I even try to console myself by thinking it's ok because we are getting him on a rookie wage. But it's not OK. He is useless. He may have improved 0.0001% since leaving the Dees, but the major flaws are still there. All he does is lead and mark. And then only if it hits him on the tit. If it doesn't instant turnover. He draws the oppositions youngest or weakest defender so we get nothing there either. Absolute waste of space.
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Just goes to show what a dill you really are Coach Davey
I Watched Melbourne consistently for a number of years and Brad did play a lot of games at CHB
He is also highly regarded by his team mates at punt rd and by his ex team mates at Melbourne
Got a mate involved with Melbourne. Brad played no more than 30 games at CHB. LOL at 30 being a lot of footy for a bloke that's played 150 games. Any decent key forward averages more than 0.7 goals per game. Funny thing is, Brad is having his best ever season this year. This is his best ever season :lol
No wonder why you got sacked you absolute nuffer. You bag everyone but defend Miller because you know him.
Sweet!
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:lol
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I have tried being nice about this because he is a Richmond player, I even try to console myself by thinking it's ok because we are getting him on a rookie wage. But it's not OK. He is useless. He may have improved 0.0001% since leaving the Dees, but the major flaws are still there. All he does is lead and mark. And then only if it hits him on the tit. If it doesn't instant turnover. He draws the oppositions youngest or weakest defender so we get nothing there either. Absolute waste of space.
oh how the the truth must hurt some.
give me post for 5 games anyday or give elton two or three in a row just to get a feel of the big time. ffs we have a 25 yo mature recruit in derickx who is struggling at coburg but what tall wouldnt struggle at coburg. as i have said repeatedly nothing to lose we could play my granny and get better out put than vickery and miller atm.
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No doubt they would have called your granny if they could have found some shorts big enough to fit her. Miller should count himself lucky.
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No doubt they would have called your granny if they could have found some shorts big enough to fit her. Miller should count himself lucky.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :lol :rollin :lol :lol :lol :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :lol :rollin :rollin :rollin :lol :lol
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No doubt they would have called your granny if they could have found some shorts big enough to fit her. Miller should count himself lucky.
watch your mouth young man granny gets upset easily. not a nice thing getting lost in grannys shorts they may never find you.
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:lol
Sounds like a good way to go, maybe we should send in Miller
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:lol
Sounds like a good way to go, maybe we should send in Miller
not a bad idea gran hates duds.
yet again gran still thinks shes a young woman if millsy can handle pia just maybe he can handle gran.
hmm just maybe we should start talking footy again the vision of gran and millsy together is making me ill.
can we talk about pia and my good self. i feel better just thinking about it. and stuff millsy he can get lost in grannys shorts forever.
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:cheers
Don't worry mate, Millsy will be back at Coburg as soon as Vickery gets back after the bye ;D
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Milllzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
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give me post for 5 games anyday or give elton two or three in a row just to get a feel of the big time. ffs we have a 25 yo mature recruit in derickx who is struggling at coburg but what tall wouldnt struggle at coburg.
Browne, Graham and Griffiths to name 3 off the top of my head. All 3 are regularly in the best and get positive mentions in most post match write ups.
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you would think the guy
committed MURDER.
we as a club were the ones
the signed him up, the match commitee
have selected him.
have a go at those people.
geez get a life some people.
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give me post for 5 games anyday or give elton two or three in a row just to get a feel of the big time. ffs we have a 25 yo mature recruit in derickx who is struggling at coburg but what tall wouldnt struggle at coburg.
Browne, Graham and Griffiths to name 3 off the top of my head. All 3 are regularly in the best and get positive mentions in most post match write ups.
thats even better then.
what i dont get. the people on here saying there are no other options you have obviously seen 3.
against gws iasked why not drop vickery well he supposedly had a leg injury anyway. but why not play big ivan in vickerys role and reward one of browne or graham and play em first ruck. ivan spent lots of time forward for adelaide with vickery so out of touch why dont we or didnt we just tweek it a bit.
i firmly believe that even if vickery stayed in the team just jack and a resting ruckman ie vickery forward is one tall short.
i have to ask what is vickery. a kpp or a ruckman forward. if hes supposed to be the latter we are one kpf short. what a massive ask expecting a 21 yo undersized kid to hold down a key post and then do his fair share in the ruck. its an even bigger ask for a 21 yo totally out of form and confidence.
so what do we do we drop our second ruck whos also our 2nd kpf and bring in a kpf. wheres the second ruckman we can send forward to change it up or stretch teams.
why am i narky on miller well theres several reasons not just his age or his performances, which quite frankly have been servicable at times but never really been good enough.
jack is not a quick player but compared to miller hes usain bolt.
miller has no hurt factor he does not take anywhere near enough marks, gets little ball and when he does his kicking is questionable.
to top it off opponents just run off him and hurt us big time and hes so poor or his lack of hurt factor sees his direct opponent with no fear of leaving him and doing a job on jack.
when collingwood won a gf they had dawes and cloke as genuine forwards with leigh brown another kpp playing as a back up ruckman forward.
geelong at no stage ever went with mooney and just ottens forward. . like we have with jack and vickery.
in 07 they went ablett mooney ottens. with king on the interchange bench when king came on ottens joined the other two forward.
that sort of structure has never changed with them.
08 they lost one they probably should not have. the forward structure that got em there was mooney, lonergan, ottens and blake. same deal as 07 only difference was personell.
09 same again mooney hawkins ottens and blake
2011 they went hawkins podsiadly ottens. west on the bench.
why not do with maric what geelong did with ottens. play another ruckman from the bench and give ivan plenty of time forward. if hes need on ball just change it up or down.
i for one dont rate angus i dont think many of us do but like you say hes getting good reports from coburg isnt it time to try something different rather than going with miller and an out of form vickery.
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lol those Coburg reports write like a school report card. "Little Johnny did well today. Is certainly improving and working well with others." Sure, grounds to give a game :lol
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lol those Coburg reports write like a school report card. "Little Johnny did well today. Is certainly improving and working well with others." Sure, grounds to give a game :lol
hmm the impression i get from you is you think we have a premiership side. without further change and development we will continue yes continue to wallow in mediocrity.
thats the trouble with all you people everything is all about right now. if the club thinks that way we wont grt anywhere.
lets see your obviously suggesting we play miller this week because you want to win. exactly what will miller give to ensure we win. i can tell ya now nothing more than a kid can.
like vickery hes deplorable i suppose you want vickery straight back in to see if we can win as well. to my way of thinking you want to win play a kid or play anyone because on form they can do no worse than these two.
i know lets play em and hope jack can beat 2 or 3 like he has to try to every week and while we hope hope the two hacks can make some sort of contribution. you really dont get it. after how many yrs of failure and you still dont get it thats unbelievable.
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you would think the guy
committed MURDER.
we as a club were the ones
the signed him up, the match commitee
have selected him.
have a go at those people.
geez get a life some people.
Has murdered us many times has Milzzaayy. Nice bloke though.
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hmm the impression i get from you is you think we have a premiership side. without further change and development we will continue yes continue to wallow in mediocrity.
thats the trouble with all you people everything is all about right now. if the club thinks that way we wont grt anywhere.
lets see your obviously suggesting we play miller this week because you want to win. exactly what will miller give to ensure we win. i can tell ya now nothing more than a kid can.
like vickery hes deplorable i suppose you want vickery straight back in to see if we can win as well. to my way of thinking you want to win play a kid or play anyone because on form they can do no worse than these two.
i know lets play em and hope jack can beat 2 or 3 like he has to try to every week and while we hope hope the two hacks can make some sort of contribution. you really dont get it. after how many yrs of failure and you still dont get it thats unbelievable.
hmm sheesh geez you got that impression and made all those assumptions from one throw away line. Yet if you were only half the twit you are and read other threads, you would find that most of us are on near enough the same page as you.
Have you actually seen a Coburg game this year? Or are you just going by the warm and fluffy two or three sentences Mellor gives the players each week?
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:lol
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you would think the guy
committed MURDER.
we as a club were the ones
the signed him up, the match commitee
have selected him.
have a go at those people.
geez get a life some people.
And as former Dees player , he is spending his days off wisely, currently at falls creek
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Have you actually seen a Coburg game this year? Or are you just going by the warm and fluffy two or three sentences Mellor gives the players each week?
Claw. Like a rabid dog looking for table scraps to feed on. ;D
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give me post for 5 games anyday or give elton two or three in a row just to get a feel of the big time. ffs we have a 25 yo mature recruit in derickx who is struggling at coburg but what tall wouldnt struggle at coburg.
Browne, Graham and Griffiths to name 3 off the top of my head. All 3 are regularly in the best and get positive mentions in most post match write ups.
thats even better then.
what i dont get. the people on here saying there are no other options you have obviously seen 3.
No I haven't, I merely answered your question about what tall wouldn't struggle at Coburg, it has nothing to do about viable options for the senior team. FWIW I think Griffiths is head and shoulders above the other 2 as an option, and only Browne MIGHT also make it eventually, Graham will never ever ever be up to AFL standard, even though he appears to do very well at VFL level. All IMHO.
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Richmond
B.Miller
3 Votes :bow
Best individual RFC performance since KB in 1980.
Bid on his player issue guernsey from this game and have it framed and signed up on my wall.. Also, 2 photos of him in the frame I had made up.. 1 is of him giving it off out the back and the other is of him putting on a nice block for Jack.
I will really miss our Brad and I know many here will too. xoxoxoxoxoxo
:clapping
(http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Brad+Miller+AFL+Rd+3+Richmond+v+Melbourne+4W9hRZGYPgIl.jpg)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plPY8CoVOoU
Sent us into a frenzy. Thanks to Brad I am no longer ashamed of my old Trent Knobel jumper :clapping
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Delete thread, don't feed trolls
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Delete thread, don't feed trolls
Not a Richmond supporter, are you mate?
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Top career Milzy. We will always remember you especially when there is a gaping whole the size of the Titanic at CHF which is ironic because you moved like an iceberg. But this didn't stop you from carving out one of the all-time greatest careers. It was a pleasure de-Melbournising you. :clapping
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Delete thread, don't feed trolls
Not a Richmond supporter, are you mate?
That's rich coming from someone who only rates Richmond players once they've left, or when they've come from another club. Ignoring Cotchin cause his a freak
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Delete thread, don't feed trolls
Not a Richmond supporter, are you mate?
That's rich coming from someone who only rates Richmond players once they've left, or when they've come from another club. Ignoring Cotchin cause his a freak
What are you on about, guy? Don't make things up.
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Delete thread, don't feed trolls
Not a Richmond supporter, are you mate?
That's rich coming from someone who only rates Richmond players once they've left, or when they've come from another club. Ignoring Cotchin cause his a freak
What are you on about, guy? Don't make things up.
Topic
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Delete thread, don't feed trolls
Not a Richmond supporter, are you mate?
That's rich coming from someone who only rates Richmond players once they've left, or when they've come from another club. Ignoring Cotchin cause his a freak
What are you on about, guy? Don't make things up.
Topic
Answer the question!
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Stuff not to get an AA nom
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Delete thread, don't feed trolls
Not a Richmond supporter, are you mate?
That's rich coming from someone who only rates Richmond players once they've left, or when they've come from another club. Ignoring Cotchin cause his a freak
What are you on about, guy? Don't make things up.
Topic
Answer the question!
:clapping
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Donkey. With a stunning wife
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Answer the question!
:clapping
K. Just from what he posts, it seems all his fav players are ones that have left Richmond (Schulz) or they have come from a different team (Miller). Reiwoldt 10x better player but he cops all the flack from Coach Diana
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Answer the question!
:clapping
K. Just from what he posts, it seems all his fav players are ones that have left Richmond (Schulz) or they have come from a different team (Miller). Reiwoldt 10x better player but he cops all the flack from Coach Diana
Thank you, Coach please respond to these filthy allegations.....
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Schulz has been a favourite of mine since day 1, do your home work. I like Milzy's attitude and smarts. Riewoldt is a gun but his attitude, work rate etc needs work. We need consistency from him.
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Schulz has been a favourite of mine since day 1, do your home work. I like Milzy's attitude and smarts. Riewoldt is a gun but his attitude, work rate etc needs work. We need consistency from him.
And rests his case! Carry on......
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Schulz has been a favourite of mine since day 1, do your home work. I like Milzy's attitude and smarts. Riewoldt is a gun but his attitude, work rate etc needs work. We need consistency from him.
They were examples of a trend I have noticed ;)
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Schulz has been a favourite of mine since day 1, do your home work. I like Milzy's attitude and smarts. Riewoldt is a gun but his attitude, work rate etc needs work. We need consistency from him.
They were examples of a trend I have noticed ;)
Trend :lol :lol o.k Planty :lol
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Schulz has been a favourite of mine since day 1, do your home work. I like Milzy's attitude and smarts. Riewoldt is a gun but his attitude, work rate etc needs work. We need consistency from him.
They were examples of a trend I have noticed ;)
Trend :lol :lol o.k Planty :lol
Going a lil deep up Coach aren't you?
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Stretta has a point. You're a weird man, yeahright
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Stretta has a point. You're a weird man, yeahright
Topic
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Stretta has a point. You're a weird man, yeahright
Topic
Answer the question...
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Stretta has a point. You're a weird man, yeahright
Topic
Answer the question...
I would post the photo again, but obviously One-Eyed doesn't think it's appropriate
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Stretta has a point. You're a weird man, yeahright
Topic
Answer the question...
:clapping