One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Hard Roar Tiger on April 15, 2024, 02:48:52 PM
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Starting to feel like the late 80’s.
Leadership at club has not kept up with the competition.
*List management
*Strength and conditioning
*Player development
*Cap management
All look inferior to clubs like Geelong, Collingwood, Brisbane and GWS.
Carlton aren’t far behind and honestly Dogs would be there but for their insatiable desire to persist with a coach who’s only real achievement was that he nailed a finals series 8 years ago.
Reckon there’s a few that have just been there too long and need to go. Like Richmond did the last time we sought and found the promised land through the 60’s - early 80’s.
I’m a fan of a broom through the club, rejuvenating the list, the conditioning, the player development (tackling, kicking and game sense have gone backwards) but most importantly all the senior off field roles from CEO to List Manager and Football manager. That’s the issue.
There’s too much made to excuse the symptoms without focusing on root cause.
Let’s jump on it now, and, unlike the late 80’s where it took 20 years to get our act together - we can hopefully get going again by the end of this decade.
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people said this in round 22 2016.. wheel can turn quickly
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But it won’t . Have a look at what Cats and Pies have done recently.
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Need another board challenge like 2016 to snap them out their complacency....#focusonfooty :shh
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2 weeks is a long time in footy .
One week we’re celebrating a gutsy win over Sydney- the next week we are back in 1987
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Unfortunately and I hope I am wrong but it looks like it is going to be a long season like 1989 where there was little joy
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Unfortunately and I hope I am wrong but it looks like it is going to be a long season like 1989 where there was little joy
At least we won the u'19's that year..... :gotigers
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2 weeks is a long time in footy .
One week we’re celebrating a gutsy win over Sydney- the next week we are back in 1987
Let’s look at the last 3 and a bit years, for good measure let’s compare it to the previous 4 seasons
We have gone from a win/loss of 73% to 44% - we all know that it will deteriorate by seasons end.
If you want a peek into our future, look at the Hawks who intervened way too late.
Clubs that I mentioned above have been far more proactive off field than us.
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How pathetic some people are...Very happy to celebrate the success, but drop off very quickly when that period finishes and we drop off the cliff. Yes, its very hard to watch, but, take small snippets of success from 2024. Tom Brown, Kane McA, etc....
This time was always going to come and here we are. Hardwick wanted to prop us up with Taranto/Hopper for another tilt, but is hasn't worked.
Strap on a hard one cos its going to get worse, before it gets better.
It's actually an exciting time to be part of the RFC. Seeing a rebirth happening, but it's a very slow process in the AFL.
Go Tigers....
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But it won’t . Have a look at what Cats and Pies have done recently.
What have the pies done that is so great?
Both won flags recently well we’ve won 3. Pies elite young talent are who exactly? The daicos brothers who they got by having the brilliant idea of lucking out and having 1 of their champs have sons. After that who exactly are you envious of….. Crisp, Pendles, Sidebottom, Mitchell, Howe, Mihocek all the wrong side of 30. Even De Goey, Moore and Maynard are all 28+ this season.
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But it won’t . Have a look at what Cats and Pies have done recently.
What have the pies done that is so great?
Both won flags recently well we’ve won 3. Pies elite young talent are who exactly? The daicos brothers who they got by having the brilliant idea of lucking out and having 1 of their champs have sons. After that who exactly are you envious of….. Crisp, Pendles, Sidebottom, Mitchell, Howe, Mihocek all the wrong side of 30. Even De Goey, Moore and Maynard are all 28+ this season.
Pies snipped 5 established players to free up cap space ……
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How pathetic some people are...Very happy to celebrate the success, but drop off very quickly when that period finishes and we drop off the cliff. Yes, its very hard to watch, but, take small snippets of success from 2024. Tom Brown, Kane McA, etc....
This time was always going to come and here we are. Hardwick wanted to prop us up with Taranto/Hopper for another tilt, but is hasn't worked.
Strap on a hard one cos its going to get worse, before it gets better.
It's actually an exciting time to be part of the RFC. Seeing a rebirth happening, but it's a very slow process in the AFL.
Go Tigers....
You are 100% spot on, looking back we would have probably taken 1 flag and been happy, we had an amazing 3 flag run.
2016 I thought I would never see a flag!!
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But it won’t . Have a look at what Cats and Pies have done recently.
What have the pies done that is so great?
Both won flags recently well we’ve won 3. Pies elite young talent are who exactly? The daicos brothers who they got by having the brilliant idea of lucking out and having 1 of their champs have sons. After that who exactly are you envious of….. Crisp, Pendles, Sidebottom, Mitchell, Howe, Mihocek all the wrong side of 30. Even De Goey, Moore and Maynard are all 28+ this season.
Pies snipped 5 established players to free up cap space ……
So fixing mistakes that they had made themselves? They didn’t really free up cap space with that either, from what I understand they would have been over the cap had they not acted, that’s why they were giving players away for a packet of chips.
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How pathetic some people are...Very happy to celebrate the success, but drop off very quickly when that period finishes and we drop off the cliff. Yes, its very hard to watch, but, take small snippets of success from 2024. Tom Brown, Kane McA, etc....
This time was always going to come and here we are. Hardwick wanted to prop us up with Taranto/Hopper for another tilt, but is hasn't worked.
Strap on a hard one cos its going to get worse, before it gets better.
It's actually an exciting time to be part of the RFC. Seeing a rebirth happening, but it's a very slow process in the AFL.
Go Tigers....
You are 100% spot on, looking back we would have probably taken 1 flag and been happy, we had an amazing 3 flag run.
2016 I thought I would never see a flag!!
(https://y.yarn.co/a783e21e-f7a7-45e6-a690-18260a69ef38_text.gif)
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But it won’t . Have a look at what Cats and Pies have done recently.
What have the pies done that is so great?
Both won flags recently well we’ve won 3. Pies elite young talent are who exactly? The daicos brothers who they got by having the brilliant idea of lucking out and having 1 of their champs have sons. After that who exactly are you envious of….. Crisp, Pendles, Sidebottom, Mitchell, Howe, Mihocek all the wrong side of 30. Even De Goey, Moore and Maynard are all 28+ this season.
Pies snipped 5 established players to free up cap space ……
So fixing mistakes that they had made themselves? They didn’t really free up cap space with that either, from what I understand they would have been over the cap had they not acted, that’s why they were giving players away for a packet of chips.
They got rid of players who had a standing at the club that we would never have moved on. They now have cap space to go after big name players a year after winning a flag.
The Cats seemingly have a never ending amount of cap space for big name players every year or two and they are able to trade for players that are no good and come into their system and become effective role players. Their record on player development is a bench mark in the comp. Their strength and conditioning team are world class. GWS are another who just get it right year in, year out. List management outstanding.
We won our 3 flags over 4 years, since then (after this year), 3 of those years outside the 8 and likely fall from 8th to 13th to bottom 4 this year. The trend is your friend.
Our results indicate an off field malaise beyond the new coach whom I feel sorry for.
Time to snatch the rent on a few of the more seasoned club staff and regenerate before we turn into lolnorf.
I am amazed people do not see that.
Being defensive about our current situation will only get sand in your hair.
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GWS have had an endless supply of talent & draft capital to trade and it was all set up for them by the AFL....while Geelong have connections at the top that we don't and a point of difference that attracts players who want a country /coastal lifestyle but still be close to the big smoke and the Filth have a lot of support from the big end of town....Richmond are the odd one out in the Big 4 in that regard as we've never really had the backing of the high profile establishment to the extent that the other three have....we also haven't been kissed on the dick by father/sons like those Geelong & the Filth have been....not saying we couldn't have done things a lot better since the flags but it's hasn't all just been genius list management from the others with out any leg up from other factors that weren't afforded to us..... :shh
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Still think we are struggling now because we failed abysmally to recognise where the list was at. Especially at the end of 2020.
To me 2020 was the last role of the dice and we got lucky and won a flag. It was time to start the transition period instead we kept on trying to pinch another one.
It was the easy route and the dumb one. I actually wanted us to turn over players during the premiership years and i still stand by that.
We had our fair share of ordinary no lets say average players who really needed to be upgraded on. We also lacked severly in player types and to be honest just ignored the problems.
Copped my fair share of abuse for saying this sort of thing while we were winning.
Generally speaking i will take out all players 28 and over, i do this because generally speaking they are short term players and if we do our job right need to be at the very least planning for their replacements.
That to me is just plain common sense you are planning and drafting the same types who will be retiring in the not too distant future.
We imo have tended to draft after they have retired. Or if we have drafted before its been a token pick with not a lot expenditure.
That has always been my thinking. But we actually ignored their age and the lack of numbers and just how many were our best players. We mostly ignored what types they were and we ignored the need.
We went down the lets eke out another premiership path that we should never have gone down.It was ah well lets not draft that type a f/a or we can trade for one if need be approach was adopted.
That approach actually ignored where we got the majority of our better dynasty players from.
At the end of 2020 look what was left after you took out the 28 plus year old players. It left around 30 players, 17 who would be gone by the start of this year. Thats most of the younger core gone anyway.
Of the remaining players i would say there are just 7 you could call B plus grade players. leaving another 6 who would not be greatly missed if they were not there imo. Outside 0f the great 28 plus year olds we had, we had just 7 players to build from in 2020 imo..
What was left on the list after you took out the 28 plus year olds was of real concern. Many were talking about it. Its hard to win any footy debate though when you have just won a premiership.
Not only did we ignore this, we continued to greatly ignore and thus failed to address serious positional short comings on the list forcing us to trade out of drafts and boy has that cost us and will continue to hurt for many years to come.
How many seasons did it take us to build a dynasty basically starting from scratch. Wallace era 2004 and getting plenty wrong right thru to 2017.
Around 13 - 14 years. We will have to go down the rebuild path we have not won a flag for 4 seasons including this year and we are yet to bottom out. Just how long should the expectation be.
It takes years just to get your hands on the quality picks you need and it takes even more to bring all those picks and players up to enough games as a group to even begin challenging.
The list 2024 i count 33 players aged under 28. only 6 or 7 have proven themselves to be B grade or above imo. Some of the younger kids may get there some are decent players. Its gunna be a long long haul 4years and counting and we still have not bottomed out.
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Everyone is an expert in hindsight
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Claw you do have a point.
2021 was when we should have realised we were cooked.
2022 trade efforts were a glaring mistake.
I don't blame the club for trying to stay at the top but it looks to have backfired and put us back 2-3 years in a rebuild IMO.
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Everyone is an expert in hindsight
We’ll be better in hindsight in 3 years when we are hitting our 3rd bottom 4 finish in a row….
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Everyone is an expert in hindsight
Really chucky not too much hindsight on my behalf. As i said one of few who was arguing about this while we were winning flags.
We imo have got a lot wrong recruiting and list management two of the biggies. Things are now far worse than they needed to be.
We see it all the time clubs hanging for dear life after a successful period.
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Claw you do have a point.
2021 was when we should have realised we were cooked.
2022 trade efforts were a glaring mistake.
I don't blame the club for trying to stay at the top but it looks to have backfired and put us back 2-3 years in a rebuild IMO.
It’s very easy to say that. I wasn’t on the forum in 2016, but how many people were opposed to giving up or top pick for Prestia and other picks for caddy and nank? I’d wager there would have been quite the outcry at that point as well.
I don’t think we could have won the flag in 2022, but reverse that BS goal review in the final against Brisbane and who knows.
Like chucky said, hindsight is 20:20. Trades and list management decisions are always a gamble, you win some (2016), you lose some (2022). The main reason we are down is because we did not have access to the top end of the draft because we were too busy winning flags. I keep mentioning it but there have been 4 dynasty teams in the AFL era, ourselves, hawks and Brisbane have all dropped off a cliff and go through a rebuild. While Geelong seem to ‘contend’ every year and avoid rebuilds, they still went 11 years btw their 2011 and 2022 flags and were mainly pretenders in that time.
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Claw you do have a point.
2021 was when we should have realised we were cooked.
2022 trade efforts were a glaring mistake.
I don't blame the club for trying to stay at the top but it looks to have backfired and put us back 2-3 years in a rebuild IMO.
It’s very easy to say that. I wasn’t on the forum in 2016, but how many people were opposed to giving up or top pick for Prestia and other picks for caddy and nank? I’d wager there would have been quite the outcry at that point as well.
I don’t think we could have won the flag in 2022, but reverse that BS goal review in the final against Brisbane and who knows.
Like chucky said, hindsight is 20:20. Trades and list management decisions are always a gamble, you win some (2016), you lose some (2022). The main reason we are down is because we did not have access to the top end of the draft because we were too busy winning flags. I keep mentioning it but there have been 4 dynasty teams in the AFL era, ourselves, hawks and Brisbane have all dropped off a cliff and go through a rebuild. While Geelong seem to ‘contend’ every year and avoid rebuilds, they still went 11 years btw their 2011 and 2022 flags and were mainly pretenders in that time.
The big difference between 2016 and getting Caddy Prestia and Nank to 2022 and getting Taranto and Hopper is quite obvious. The number of high quality players we had accumulated going right back to 2006 and topping it all off in 2016 and the age demographic most of them were in compared to 2022. In 2022 almost all of our best players who were going to carry us to another flag were vets.
By the way i will put my hand up and say i was one who did not want Prestia at the end of 2016. I was rapt we got Nankervis and i had never really rated Caddy as a player and i still don't.
Taranto and in a lesser way Hopper were very large list needs weather we were in a window or not. We had just plain refused to draft adequate numbers of their type and in good positions in the draft with only RCD being a decent pick. Our infatuation with smalls and flankers is well documented. I still maintain we took smalls because there is a better chance of getting something out of them over big bodied players and talls.
I have not heard one supporter here actually acknowledge just how bereft we were of big mids and we had no choice but get at least one good mature one. That was not to win a premiership it was just to compete. We are in that place with key forwards and have been for years and Key defenders is not much better.
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Agree Claw, the list was old and failing at the end of 21-22.
Club probably should have known 22 wasn't an indication that the window was still open but I think none of us wanted to admit that.