One-Eyed Richmond Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: 🏅Dooks on December 23, 2016, 06:13:51 PM
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What's everyone's take on this? Sign of the times? More of the same? Increased trouble?
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/malayalam/en/article/2016/12/23/plot-carry-out-christmas-day-bomb-attacks-melbourne-foiled-police
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Too early to say.
Details need analysis
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sounds like something we need to get the crime fighting bikie
gangs clubs in to clean up for society
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Islam is mostly a political ideology.
https://www.politicalislam.com/about/ (https://www.politicalislam.com/about/)
If you have doubts, I encourage anyone to have a look at this YouTube video
https://youtu.be/m0b46I8fmkQ
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lol
what sort of ideology is Christianity?
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lol
what sort of ideology is Christianity?
For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give His life as a ransom for many.” Mark 10:45 | NLT.
But God showed His great love for us by sending Geez to die for us while we were still sinners. Romans 5:8 | NLT
The Gospel message IS the ideology of Christianity. It is repeated throughout that Geez died to save sinners. He calls us to faith to believe in His finished work on the cross for our salvation and eternal life with Him.
It's NOT political. Geez said that His Kingdom is not of this world. John 18:36.
He even stopped His own disciple from taking up the sword to fight those that came to arrest Him. Matt 26:51-52.
Christianity is nothing like Islam in its ideology as it is NOT political.
Are you an apologist for Islam now? Can you prove that Islam isn't essentially a political ideology and not a religion of peace that they claim?
Please enlighten me if I am wrong about Islam.
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lol
what sort of ideology is Christianity?
For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give His life as a ransom for many.” Mark 10:45 | NLT.
But God showed His great love for us by sending Geez to die for us while we were still sinners. Romans 5:8 | NLT
The Gospel message IS the ideology of Christianity. It is repeated throughout that Geez died to save sinners. He calls us to faith to believe in His finished work on the cross for our salvation and eternal life with Him.
It's NOT political. Geez said that His Kingdom is not of this world. John 18:36.
He even stopped His own disciple from taking up the sword to fight those that came to arrest Him. Matt 26:51-52.
Christianity is nothing like Islam in its ideology as it is NOT political.
Are you an apologist for Islam now? Can you prove that Islam isn't essentially a political ideology and not a religion of peace that they claim?
Please enlighten me if I am wrong about Islam.
History shows all religion has been and is entwined with political ideology. It wouldn't still exist otherwise. Fundamentalist followers cherry picking and manipulating interpretations from their particular scripture to endorse their own socio-political views and to use, abuse and justify their own actions to impose and enforce such views.
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yep, sums it up nicely.
I am not an apologist for any religion at all.
When people try to claim that other religions are worse than theirs (or theirs is better), it sums the whole problem with religion.
They can cherry pick to claim how good theirs is, while spreading hatred and intolerance towards others. If you can spread hatred by using religion, your religion sucks arse big time, and you Mr. Tigritis spend lots of effort into telling the world how bad the others are. In that sense, you are no different to them. You are part of the problem.
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lol
what sort of ideology is Christianity?
For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give His life as a ransom for many.” Mark 10:45 | NLT.
But God showed His great love for us by sending Geez to die for us while we were still sinners. Romans 5:8 | NLT
The Gospel message IS the ideology of Christianity. It is repeated throughout that Geez died to save sinners. He calls us to faith to believe in His finished work on the cross for our salvation and eternal life with Him.
It's NOT political. Geez said that His Kingdom is not of this world. John 18:36.
He even stopped His own disciple from taking up the sword to fight those that came to arrest Him. Matt 26:51-52.
Christianity is nothing like Islam in its ideology as it is NOT political.
Are you an apologist for Islam now? Can you prove that Islam isn't essentially a political ideology and not a religion of peace that they claim?
Please enlighten me if I am wrong about Islam.
History shows all religion has been and is entwined with political ideology. It wouldn't still exist otherwise. Fundamentalist followers cherry picking and manipulating interpretations from their particular scripture to endorse their own socio-political views and to use, abuse and justify their own actions to impose and enforce such views.
This is true MT. Corrupt people can corrupt what is good no doubt about that.
But what people don't realise is that Islam is predominantly political.
It teaches this in its sacred texts. It teaches subjugation, sharia & what to do to the kafir (unbelievers).
Did you watch the links I sent?
https://youtu.be/m0b46I8fmkQ
Christianity does NOT teach a political ideology. Geez taught to love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you. Matt 5:44.
He said to do unto others what you would have them do to you. Matt 7:12.
The Apostle Paul teaches us to pray for our leaders.
"I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them. Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity. This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth."
1 Timothy 2:1-4 | NLT
The bible teaches us that our fight isn't physical but a spiritual fight.
"For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places."Ephesians 6:12|NLT
There's NO place in the New Testament that teaches Christians to fight to force Gods rule on earth.
But it teaches perseverance amidst suffering knowing that even in death there is victory. 1 Cor 15:55
The majority of people that profess Christianity haven't even seen the contents of the bible or understand what's written in it or taken the time to read it but most just enjoy the religious traditions.
I guess this is the same for many Muslims. That haven't read the true tenants of the sacred texts but enjoy the many traditions the religion has.
The issue is when Muslims do decide to study the sacred text of Islam - that's when you'll get this ....
(https://counterjihadnews.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/islam-behead.jpg)
These people will even kill their own because the sacred texts tell them to do this if they are not fighting for Allah.
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yep, sums it up nicely.
I am not an apologist for any religion at all.
When people try to claim that other religions are worse than theirs (or theirs is better), it sums the whole problem with religion.
They can cherry pick to claim how good theirs is, while spreading hatred and intolerance towards others. If you can spread hatred by using religion, your religion sucks arse big time, and you Mr. Tigritis spend lots of effort into telling the world how bad the others are. In that sense, you are no different to them. You are part of the problem.
You sound like just like Waleed Ali. Let's call everyone haters that speaks out against Islamic atrocities.
Why is it wrong to criticise wrong done in this world? Especially if it's in the name of religion or a god?
Haven't we the right to speak out against atrocities and ideologies that wish to subjugate especially if it's in the name of any religion?
Why is is hatred when we speak up against an ideology of hate?
Bhudism, Hinduism, Baha'i or Christianity are not political in their teachings. Islam is.
I don't hate any Muslims but I want to understand why some are willing to behead even their own people.
The fundamental problem with Islam is the ideology. It's predominantly political and its teachings are plain for anyone to read.
Why is what I said spreading hatred? Why is it wrong to question why people are wanting to blow up others in the name of any god?
Can you inform me otherwise in regards to Islam? Please do if you are able. And please answer any of my other questions.
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there is nothing wrong with speaking out about wrong doings. the problem is when you attribute those wrongs to a specific religion.
These people would be doing the same things in the name of something else if they were a different religion.
By blaming a specific religion, or religion in general for the sick poo that humans do is ignoring that this is in human nature. we have been doing evil things to each other through all our history. Sometimes it happens in the name of religion, but religion aint the cause, its the excuse, the reasoning and the tool.
Its like blaming Christianity for paedophilia
If you blame the religion you are not only looking in the wrong spot for a solution, but you are thinking in exactly the same way as the mentals .
How do you you think they recruit? by finding disinfranchised people and convincing them that Westerners/Christians are to blame. When people sprout that islam is the problem, it makes the recruiters job a little bit easier to convince who to blame.
Make no mistake, if the disinfranchied were Christian, there is plenty in the Old Testament that can be used justify the committing evil and barbaric acts,
Jast as when the Barbaric Hordes invaded and destroyed the the most advanced and civilised people on the planet during the crusades
as for this "i only believe the new age testament hippie crap," Geez said himself the the laws of the old testament were to be obeyed. Thats just not convenient for some has it cant hide the atrocities, the rape, the thievery, the lies and deceit made in the name of Yahweh or by Yahweh's chosen people that litters the old testament.
Of which one law is not to eat pork. So ironic that it is a mainstay of the Christianised pagan festival we just had.
It's also ironic that christianity and capatilism now go so hand in hand, and yet it is most probably JCs objection to such a thing that led to him being crucified
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lol
what sort of ideology is Christianity?
For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give His life as a ransom for many.” Mark 10:45 | NLT.
But God showed His great love for us by sending Geez to die for us while we were still sinners. Romans 5:8 | NLT
The Gospel message IS the ideology of Christianity. It is repeated throughout that Geez died to save sinners. He calls us to faith to believe in His finished work on the cross for our salvation and eternal life with Him.
It's NOT political. Geez said that His Kingdom is not of this world. John 18:36.
He even stopped His own disciple from taking up the sword to fight those that came to arrest Him. Matt 26:51-52.
Christianity is nothing like Islam in its ideology as it is NOT political.
Are you an apologist for Islam now? Can you prove that Islam isn't essentially a political ideology and not a religion of peace that they claim?
Please enlighten me if I am wrong about Islam.
History shows all religion has been and is entwined with political ideology. It wouldn't still exist otherwise. Fundamentalist followers cherry picking and manipulating interpretations from their particular scripture to endorse their own socio-political views and to use, abuse and justify their own actions to impose and enforce such views.
This is true MT. Corrupt people can corrupt what is good no doubt about that.
But what people don't realise is that Islam is predominantly political.
It teaches this in its sacred texts. It teaches subjugation, sharia & what to do to the kafir (unbelievers).
Did you watch the links I sent?
https://youtu.be/m0b46I8fmkQ
I'm not disputing what's written in the Koran and the Hadith. There is some crazy stuff in it. The problem is how it is interpreted and by whom (same goes for all religions). Many Muslims ignore these violent passages because to them they have a historical context such that these passages apply to the earliest time of Islam (mid 7th century) rather than now. Initially, Muslims were not allowed to fight back and defend themselves against persecution. Then "miraculously" new passages were recited to justify fighting back [obviously numbers were dwindling trying to initially hold such a purest non-violent stance]. On the hand, a fundamentalist Muslim will just take these passages as literal and go around killing infidel and even other Muslims who don't subscribe to the fundamentalist interpretation. Salafism (Wahabism in Saudi Arabia), for example, is one of these fundamentalist interpretations and the one ISIS subscribes to. It didn't exist though until the 18th century as a response to fighting against European colonisation.
I'm not defending Islam (it's a load of ancient mysticism to me). I'm saying other religions are no better. History shows this.
Christianity does NOT teach a political ideology. Geez taught to love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you. Matt 5:44.
He said to do unto others what you would have them do to you. Matt 7:12.
The Apostle Paul teaches us to pray for our leaders.
"I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them. Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity. This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth."
1 Timothy 2:1-4 | NLT
The bible teaches us that our fight isn't physical but a spiritual fight.
"For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places."Ephesians 6:12|NLT
There's NO place in the New Testament that teaches Christians to fight to force Gods rule on earth.
But it teaches perseverance amidst suffering knowing that even in death there is victory. 1 Cor 15:55
The Old Testament does though. Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain violent and other barbaric endorsing passages.
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. - Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Secondly, certain passages in the New Testament have been used over the course of history to justify persecution and killing. The phrase "the Jews (who) killed the Lord Geez" has been twisted and abused over the centuries to justify anti-Semitism.
For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Geez Geez: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Geez and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last. - 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
I remember as a kid that the Gospel according to John also described the Jews as killing Geez (compared to Matthew, Mark and Luke gospels who blamed the religious authorities instead rather than stating the Jews as a whole).
Now, there's also a historical context to these passages but religious whackos and bigots don't care.
The majority of people that profess Christianity haven't even seen the contents of the bible or understand what's written in it or taken the time to read it but most just enjoy the religious traditions.
I guess this is the same for many Muslims. That haven't read the true tenants of the sacred texts but enjoy the many traditions the religion has.
The issue is when Muslims do decide to study the sacred text of Islam - that's when you'll get this ....
(https://counterjihadnews.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/islam-behead.jpg)
These people will even kill their own because the sacred texts tell them to do this if they are not fighting for Allah.
It's interpretation rather than knowledge of the existence of such text that's the problem. As I said, Salafists (Sunni extremists and fundamentalists) treat the Koran as literally as the word of God/Allah. The hardcore literal religious types are always the nutjobs. You only have to go to certain parts of the USA to find the so-called "Christian" equivalent (Westboro Baptist Church).
At the end of the day, religion (all forms) can be used to justify anything and everything. Just another man-made (up) tool from long ago by our human ancestors who were mostly uneducated and/or illiterate by today's standards, that can used for good or evil. It all depends on views of the individual/group involved.
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Like I said. There is NO place in the New Testament that tells Christians to fight to force Gods rule on earth.
You can sugar coat it all you like but I am just stating the truth about Islam ideology.
It's unlike any other major religion in its ideology in that it specifically tells Muslims to kill in the name of Allah those that don't conform to the teachings of Allah in the Koran or the Hadith.
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and like I said, it does in the old testament, and Geez said that the laws of the old testament still apply, so you are the one sugar coating it so you can spread hatred, intolerance and division, which stragngely enough seems to be the part of the bible that doesnt count
When it's all said and done, you are just another war mongering religious zealot
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and like I said, it does in the old testament, and Geez said that the laws of the old testament still apply, so you are the one sugar coating it so you can spread hatred, intolerance and division, which stragngely enough seems to be the part of the bible that doesnt count
When it's all said and done, you are just another war mongering religious zealot
Penny what are your thoughts on the late Christopher Hitchens and his specific atheist views?
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my primary thought is "WTF is he?"
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my primary thought is "WTF is he?"
Oh cmon
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truely, never heard of him till now.
but it seems he was one clued up dude
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:lol put this bloke in his place
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HG0yH6Jtp0
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:lol put this bloke in his place
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HG0yH6Jtp0
Puts everyone in their place
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and like I said, it does in the old testament, and Geez said that the laws of the old testament still apply, so you are the one sugar coating it so you can spread hatred, intolerance and division, which stragngely enough seems to be the part of the bible that doesnt count
When it's all said and done, you are just another war mongering religious zealot
Sorry Al, You are wrong.
Geez fulfills all the law and the prophets in the Old Testament.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Matthew 5:17-18 | ESV
After this, Geez, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.” A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to His mouth. When Geez had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished,” and He bowed His head and gave up His Spirit. John 19:28-30 | ESV
How am I spreading hatred? Where have I stated I hated anyone? Where have I preached hate? (besides Carlton ;)). Where have I stated anywhere in this thread that I hate anyone? I was just stating my opinion from scripture that I've read in my Koran.
It's not hate to highlight wrong and inconsistency within any religion or ideology.
I can't say it's wrong to abuse women? I can't say it's wrong for any Christian to molest children? It's abhorrent and I think we all should be shouting out how wrong it is especially if it's in the name of god.
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gotta love the modern feel good versions with words changed to help justify poo
try the literal translation?
17 'Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets -- I did not come to throw down, but to fulfill;
18 for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass.
19 `Whoever therefore may loose one of these commands -- the least -- and may teach men so, least he shall be called in the reign of the heavens, but whoever may do and may teach [them], he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.
Where does "accomplish" come from? That reads to me more like until the end of everything. no mention of some vaugue thing being accomplished.
Are laws something you can full fill then abandon?
What you are claiming makes no sense
After this, Geez knowing that all things now have been finished, that the Writing may be fulfilled, saith, `I thirst;'
The bloke knew he'd run his race. no reference to the heavens and earth, or everything, passing. The earlier verses refer to prophets and laws. "Writing" is vaugue, but context gives a pretty good indication. I'm pretty sure that upon his crucifixion, Geez did not have everything from the old testament accomplished any ways, if he had he wouldn't have been crucified?
That is just clutching at straws, and your quote clearly shows that old testament was not to be ignored.
and it is easier to the heaven and the earth to pass away, than of the law one tittle to fall.
again another mention of the laws lasting until everything is gone.
Don't bother with any bible that doesn't call Yahweh by his correct name. These constantly gets changed in an attempt to adapt to the times and still be relevant
I've actually answered the rest of the irrational dribble already, but just to reiterate, there is no problem with pointing out the wrongs and issues that arise from institutions based on blind faith, but when you are clearly a person of blind faith yourself and you choose to only highlight those from other religions while ignoring those from your own, as if you are somehow better, it is spreading hatred. when you try to blame the evil that is entrenched in humans on one particular religion, it is spreading hatred, because this is exactly how the mentals work, and they are the epitomy of evil. What you will never understand is they want Christians to spread this hatred and mistrust, because that is what perpetuates the cycle.
Onwards Christian Solders hey?
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Like I said. There is NO place in the New Testament that tells Christians to fight to force Gods rule on earth.
I went to Catholic schools where there was a compulsory religious education subject. The Old Testament was taught on an equal footing to the New Testament from early primary school age and events in the Bible including Genesis were all treated as things that actually happened. We were also taught the Church's (anti) views on abortion and contraception (which wasn't allowed to be taught or discussed in class). Evolution was forbidden as well and dismissed as simply "people who believe we come from monkeys" :facepalm. The religion's leadership and fundamentalist followers hold strict unwavering views about these topics, often despite scientific evidence to the contrary. Yep, nothing politically ideological about it :whistle.
You can sugar coat it all you like but I am just stating the truth about Islam ideology.
It's unlike any other major religion in its ideology in that it specifically tells Muslims to kill in the name of Allah those that don't conform to the teachings of Allah in the Koran or the Hadith.
I'm saying all religions, which obviously includes Islam and Christianity, are bogus ancient mysticism used by hardcore followers for political purposes and ultimately power and self-interest. I'm not sure how that is sugar coating things :huh3. I'm not the one playing favourites. Their 'scriptures' are a mixture of twisted biased self-promotional versions of history, contemporary beliefs that we now know are false, and just plain ignorant rubbish made up and passed down from one generation to the next without question.
Ultimately, each religion was an attempt by our ancient ancestors in different parts of the globe to explain the world around them in primitive terms that they could comprehend including a socio-political order. We now know all these 'attempts' were flawed down to just plain incorrect in their explanations as well as abused to obtain power and to commit evil/destructive acts in practice that held humanity back. We also now know that there are perfectly rational and scientific explanations for how the universe including ourselves came to exist and for why certain behaviours are advantageous or destructive.
For instance, we don't steal because some bloke thousand of years ago went up a mountain and believed a divine being disguised as a burning bush told him not to steal or else you'll rot in hell in the afterlife. Instead, not stealing from each other allows us to leave our posessions in one place for when we return and do something else elsewhere. It's advantageous to us. It's constructive behaviour. It makes us more productive both as individuals and as a society. It advances us as a species. The same goes for not killing each other, etc. Conversely, stealing, killing, etc... is destructive beheaviour both at an individual and society level and ultimately we would regress as a species.
The great irony is political/religious conservative types love to accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being apologists who undermine Western values (see the Herald-Sun again today). Yet, it them that are undermining the very fundamental values needed for a constructive and cohesive society by basing the existence for such values on ancient imaginary supernatural fairytales, rather than teaching these values as being part of human evolution, necessary for progress, and ultimately in all our own long-term self-interest and benefit as human individuals and as a human society. Of course, we all know these political/religious conservative types push their divisive archaic dogma instead for their own self-interest and their side's political agenda. You can't separate any religion from political ideology.
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The obfuscative relativist 'argument' is a tool of those who have already lost the debate. Those who operate in objective reality are informed by history and see the physical application of the Hijrah occuring throughout the West in action - here and now. Demographic modelling predicts the inevitable supplanting if left unchecked. The question is: Do you want your child and/or grandchild to live in an Islamic Caliphate administered under Sharia law or a Democracy which is based on the Western Tradition? I of course want the latter and to that end would cease Muslim immigration immediately. I would also frame up a pledge to our traditions/laws that would have to be agreed to by any would be immigrant. Failure to abide by that agreement at any stage would mean immediate deportation. I would also have our own version of Guantanamo Bay for perpetrators and if need be - their apologists. Martel, Charlemagne, Princess Isabella and countless millions freed Europe from the Islamic yolk through force only, always remember that.
A little bit of interactive History: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7y2LRcf4kc
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Not a fan of religion or modern politics. I think science inevitably will be able to explain everything.
In my mind I kind of revert back to a broader perspective as a starting point whenever these soughts of theological debates occur. Perhaps its in human nature to be greedy and dominant over each other. Perhaps we are wired that way, for better or for worse. But there is something more rational within most of us which tempers collective wrongs.
We have many big problems as a species. But we have also come a long long way. We have shown a ridiculous tolerance to adversity, and our adaptibilty is strong.
We can pretty much thrive in any climate and eat just about anything. 21st century morality is a result of a departure from religious scripture. Equality for women and people of all race. Being kind to animals. The abolishment of slavery. Etc etc.
It would be interesting to benchmark our problems, actions and our achievements against other civilisations in the universe. Perhaps our problems are blessings in disguise from a species perspective, and the harsh lessons we need to learn before becoming anything but semi-evolved primates.
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The obfuscative relativist 'argument' is a tool of those who have already lost the debate. Those who operate in objective reality are informed by history and see the physical application of the Hijrah occuring throughout the West in action - here and now. Demographic modelling predicts the inevitable supplanting if left unchecked. The question is: Do you want your child and/or grandchild to live in an Islamic Caliphate administered under Sharia law or a Democracy which is based on the Western Tradition? I of course want the latter and to that end would cease Muslim immigration immediately. I would also frame up a pledge to our traditions/laws that would have to be agreed to by any would be immigrant. Failure to abide by that agreement at any stage would mean immediate deportation. I would also have our own version of Guantanamo Bay for perpetrators and if need be - their apologists. Martel, Charlemagne, Princess Isabella and countless millions freed Europe from the Islamic yolk through force only, always remember that.
A little bit of interactive History: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7y2LRcf4kc
lol bring on the crusades.
Do you want your child and/or grandchild to live in an Islamic Caliphate administered under Sharia law or a Democracy which is based on the Western Tradition?
what a load of ignorant scare mongering claptrap.
No person in their right mind would want their children to live under any extremist religion based dictatorship, and luckily, being a secular country, our constitution prohibits any religion being forced upon, or denied to our citizens.
This is the great irony of the ignorant Hansen think tankers who call for a ban on islam. It would require changing of the very part of constitution that actually protects them from their fears, so that it allows them.
and WTF is western tradition?
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The obfuscative relativist 'argument' is a tool of those who have already lost the debate. Those who operate in objective reality are informed by history and see the physical application of the Hijrah occuring throughout the West in action - here and now. Demographic modelling predicts the inevitable supplanting if left unchecked. The question is: Do you want your child and/or grandchild to live in an Islamic Caliphate administered under Sharia law or a Democracy which is based on the Western Tradition? I of course want the latter and to that end would cease Muslim immigration immediately. I would also frame up a pledge to our traditions/laws that would have to be agreed to by any would be immigrant. Failure to abide by that agreement at any stage would mean immediate deportation. I would also have our own version of Guantanamo Bay for perpetrators and if need be - their apologists. Martel, Charlemagne, Princess Isabella and countless millions freed Europe from the Islamic yolk through force only, always remember that.
A little bit of interactive History: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7y2LRcf4kc
lol bring on the crusades.
Do you want your child and/or grandchild to live in an Islamic Caliphate administered under Sharia law or a Democracy which is based on the Western Tradition?
what a load of ignorant scare mongering claptrap.
No person in their right mind would want their children to live under any extremist religion based dictatorship, and luckily, being a secular country, our constitution prohibits any religion being forced upon, or denied to our citizens.
This is the great irony of the ignorant Hansen think tankers who call for a ban on islam. It would require changing of the very part of constitution that actually protects them from their fears, so that it allows them.
and WTF is western tradition?
The last sentence displays a severe lack of knowledge and a lazy unwillingness to attain it. Whilst a belief that the laws of a country, not the force of arms, will protect you is in the realm of childhood delusion. You have all the attributes of a recent BA graduate.
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Not a fan of religion or modern politics. I think science inevitably will be able to explain everything.
In my mind I kind of revert back to a broader perspective as a starting point whenever these soughts of theological debates occur. Perhaps its in human nature to be greedy and dominant over each other. Perhaps we are wired that way, for better or for worse. But there is something more rational within most of us which tempers collective wrongs.
We have many big problems as a species. But we have also come a long long way. We have shown a ridiculous tolerance to adversity, and our adaptibilty is strong.
We can pretty much thrive in any climate and eat just about anything. 21st century morality is a result of a departure from religious scripture. Equality for women and people of all race. Being kind to animals. The abolishment of slavery. Etc etc.
It would be interesting to benchmark our problems, actions and our achievements against other civilisations in the universe. Perhaps our problems are blessings in disguise from a species perspective, and the harsh lessons we need to learn before becoming anything but semi-evolved primates.
Good post Dooks, and not just because I agree with it. I particularly liked your comment referring to the incompatibility of reason and superstition.
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The obfuscative relativist 'argument' is a tool of those who have already lost the debate. Those who operate in objective reality are informed by history and see the physical application of the Hijrah occuring throughout the West in action - here and now. Demographic modelling predicts the inevitable supplanting if left unchecked. The question is: Do you want your child and/or grandchild to live in an Islamic Caliphate administered under Sharia law or a Democracy which is based on the Western Tradition? I of course want the latter and to that end would cease Muslim immigration immediately. I would also frame up a pledge to our traditions/laws that would have to be agreed to by any would be immigrant. Failure to abide by that agreement at any stage would mean immediate deportation. I would also have our own version of Guantanamo Bay for perpetrators and if need be - their apologists. Martel, Charlemagne, Princess Isabella and countless millions freed Europe from the Islamic yolk through force only, always remember that.
A little bit of interactive History: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7y2LRcf4kc
lol bring on the crusades.
Do you want your child and/or grandchild to live in an Islamic Caliphate administered under Sharia law or a Democracy which is based on the Western Tradition?
what a load of ignorant scare mongering claptrap.
No person in their right mind would want their children to live under any extremist religion based dictatorship, and luckily, being a secular country, our constitution prohibits any religion being forced upon, or denied to our citizens.
This is the great irony of the ignorant Hansen think tankers who call for a ban on islam. It would require changing of the very part of constitution that actually protects them from their fears, so that it allows them.
and WTF is western tradition?
The last sentence displays a severe lack of knowledge and a lazy unwillingness to attain it. Whilst a belief that the laws of a country, not the force of arms, will protect you is in the realm of childhood delusion. You have all the attributes of a recent BA graduate.
nice deflection on the question. where do i find the knowledge to be able define what Western Tradition actually is? Actually if you knew the answer to that you may have actually answered the other question.
Whilst a belief that the laws of a country, not the force of arms, will protect you is in the realm of childhood delusion.
lol yet another who resorts to irrational assumptions of what someone who disagrees with them actually thinks. Welcome to the world of wat
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Clearly, western tradition, so to speak, is everything they hate about us.
It's still "us" right?
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Clearly, western tradition, so to speak, is everything they hate about us.
It's still "us" right?
I think everything they hate is probably anything which is 'not them'. That and the Western carve up of the region, previous and subsequent interventions.
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Clearly, western tradition, so to speak, is everything they hate about us.
It's still "us" right?
I think everything they hate is probably anything which is 'not them'. That and the Western carve up of the region, previous and subsequent interventions.
Dooks has nailed it. i know plenty who are generally nice blokes, but stuff they hate everything about our culture and any religion which is not theirs, and they aren't afraid to let everyone know. Cant say i know many non muslims who do the same about other religions, esp through social media. There may be some, but not like this mob. They just hate everything non muslim.
They seize every opportunity to ram their islamic bull poo down everyones throat at every opportunity, esp through social media. Biggest hypocrites i know. For that reason i would be happy for them to not let anymore in this country.
A previous posters suggestion of a guantanamo bay works for me for all these apex african stooges, pedos, child killers, and any of these isis cock suckers. Throw them all together in one hell hole and let them kill each other.
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and stream it on the internet, you'd make a killing.........
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Clearly, western tradition, so to speak, is everything they hate about us.
It's still "us" right?
Western social, political, economic, cultural and spiritual development stretching from Hellenistic Greece through the Renaissance up to our contemporary age. All despised by the misogynistic, ignorant, pederast followers of a psychopathic,cross-dressing, paedophile criminal - pieces (poo) be upon him!
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and stream it on the internet, you'd make a killing.........
you wouldn't be able to see it - what with the bag over your head n all.
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The obfuscative relativist 'argument' is a tool of those who have already lost the debate. Those who operate in objective reality are informed by history and see the physical application of the Hijrah occuring throughout the West in action - here and now. Demographic modelling predicts the inevitable supplanting if left unchecked. The question is: Do you want your child and/or grandchild to live in an Islamic Caliphate administered under Sharia law or a Democracy which is based on the Western Tradition? I of course want the latter and to that end would cease Muslim immigration immediately. I would also frame up a pledge to our traditions/laws that would have to be agreed to by any would be immigrant. Failure to abide by that agreement at any stage would mean immediate deportation. I would also have our own version of Guantanamo Bay for perpetrators and if need be - their apologists. Martel, Charlemagne, Princess Isabella and countless millions freed Europe from the Islamic yolk through force only, always remember that.
A little bit of interactive History: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7y2LRcf4kc
lol bring on the crusades.
Do you want your child and/or grandchild to live in an Islamic Caliphate administered under Sharia law or a Democracy which is based on the Western Tradition?
what a load of ignorant scare mongering claptrap.
No person in their right mind would want their children to live under any extremist religion based dictatorship, and luckily, being a secular country, our constitution prohibits any religion being forced upon, or denied to our citizens.
This is the great irony of the ignorant Hansen think tankers who call for a ban on islam. It would require changing of the very part of constitution that actually protects them from their fears, so that it allows them.
and WTF is western tradition?
The last sentence displays a severe lack of knowledge and a lazy unwillingness to attain it. Whilst a belief that the laws of a country, not the force of arms, will protect you is in the realm of childhood delusion. You have all the attributes of a recent BA graduate.
nice deflection on the question. where do i find the knowledge to be able define what Western Tradition actually is? Actually if you knew the answer to that you may have actually answered the other question.
Whilst a belief that the laws of a country, not the force of arms, will protect you is in the realm of childhood delusion.
lol yet another who resorts to irrational assumptions of what someone who disagrees with them actually thinks. Welcome to the world of wat
1/ see my response to Ox 2/ Noooooo...............Just framing a response to your own proclamation that the Constitution can protect you against a post Hijrah scenario.But of course you knew that already.
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Clearly, western tradition, so to speak, is everything they hate about us.
It's still "us" right?
I think everything they hate is probably anything which is 'not them'. That and the Western carve up of the region, previous and subsequent interventions.
I didn't agree with any Military interventions in the M/E but I understood their necessity UBL was strong and getting stronger and had commenced offensive attacks on US military and diplomatic assets.
Personally, I would have left Saddam and Ghaddafi in place and wiped Saudi Arabia off the face of the Earth.
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Clearly, western tradition, so to speak, is everything they hate about us.
It's still "us" right?
Personally, I would have left Saddam and Ghaddafi in place and wiped Saudi Arabia off the face of the Earth.
That's right. :snidegrin
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My understanding of the current tensions is that a large part is due to the way borders were set.
Similar to African nations, once the colonials wanted out of the Middle East (as colonial authorities so to speak) the nations were carved up along colonial lines rather than ethnic/tribe/religious lines.
Different to western nations, at an individual level middle eastern individuals put religion as being more important than nation. Family, religion, state. In the west it's family, state, religion. Generally.
Now this carve up in the Middle East is either fascinatingly stupid or fascinatingly advantageous from a western perspective. It's stupid because you ended up with very unstable countries made up of Sunni, Shiite and Kurds battling to get along and take power. This creates uncertainty and with this comes civil war, pressure on democracy etc etc. But advantageous to the west because a country isn't strong enough to be pulling in the same direction it leaves them prone to the west raiding them for resources. It was almost destined to be this way, short of everyone dropping arms from day one and loving each other like their own.
Syria is an extension of this.
Of course there are more factors at play but this is one of the fundamentals which I don't think is properly understood.
Also, a factor not well understood in the current Syrian crisis is the fall of Libya. As I am understand Libya was going to float its currency on non-US dollars which is problematic from a western/US perspective as to how the global market is run to benefit the west. Hence the US intervention via various means including the Arab Spring and weapons on the ground and a new leader was implemented. Problem is, thousands of weapons were then sold by various groups within Libya to generally anti-western forces in Syria.
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Clearly, western tradition, so to speak, is everything they hate about us.
It's still "us" right?
I think everything they hate is probably anything which is 'not them'. That and the Western carve up of the region, previous and subsequent interventions.
Dooks has nailed it. i know plenty who are generally nice blokes, but stuff they hate everything about our culture and any religion which is not theirs, and they aren't afraid to let everyone know. Cant say i know many non muslims who do the same about other religions, esp through social media. There may be some, but not like this mob. They just hate everything non muslim.
They seize every opportunity to ram their islamic bull poo down everyones throat at every opportunity, esp through social media. Biggest hypocrites i know. For that reason i would be happy for them to not let anymore in this country.
I think young Muslims frustration in homelands and western countries is born largely in part by their religion and social status. Think of it this way. Muslims are tought their religion is the correct version of faith and literally that there will be no further superior version of faith. So Muslims see Judiaism as Religion version 1.0. Christiantity is version 2.0 (with various branches being 2.1, 2.2 etc). Islam is considered version 3.0.
So you have young Muslims with the unwavering belief that they are living with the correct and superior operation system, yet the don't see themselves getting ahead in the world. Therefore to them, it is a logical conclusion that the world is arse about and needs changing.
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hence the problem i have with "most" muslims but not all.
The ones i know seek to have an issue with kafir and happily spread their dislike on social media. This cases angst in the society.
I for one dont care what people believe, if at all they believe. That's the beauty of this country let everyone believe what they want. My next door neighbour is a Jehovas but a ripper bloke. He acts a lot better than some christians i know. You see i see this bloke as a person first and foremost, where as a lot of muslims see him as a kafir before anything else.
What i dont like is having things thrown in my face all the time. This whole happy holidays rhetoric is one example. I think people are scared, hence why we are seeing a less focus on christianity and other religions and i believe its because of them.
I do believe they create their own issues, especially the ones living in this country.
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Who cares why.
They're dogs and they must be eradicated.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHGgv6p7uVI
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHGgv6p7uVI
:lol......Ridicule is key to winning the propaganda war :thumbsup
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Who cares why.
They're dogs and they must be eradicated.
But not before they hand back Christian lands and pay trillions in reparations for the unremitting slavery and slaughter they have forced on mankind for 1400 years. Btw I am agnostic not Christian for those who may be "triggered" by these comments.
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Who cares why.
They're dogs and they must be eradicated.
But not before they hand back Christian lands and pay trillions in reparations for the unremitting slavery and slaughter they have forced on mankind for 1400 years. Btw I am agnostic not Christian for those who may be "triggered" by these comments.
Christians won't allow it:-
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7e/1e/5c/7e1e5cf3944b888657a7277c3cb0f72c.jpg)