One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Hard Roar Tiger on September 23, 2016, 06:14:41 PM
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Kinda speaks for itself, bit like the meaning of life - everyone has a theory but no one really nails it.
Here's your chance so arise One Eyerites - once and for all answer the most difficult question in history - why are we so poo?
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Simple answer.
Culture.
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Starts at board level
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Simple answer.
Culture.
This^^^
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Starts at board level
And this too but not for reasons Ox is thinking. I think it comes from years of sacking coaches, blaming them for our problems, whilst all the while ignoring that players may be to blame. The recruiting war with Collingwood hurt.
Poor facilities for so long and poo development as a result is another reason.
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Agree starts from the top down simple and we dont make hard decisions when it needs to be made like Dimma this year etc, and when we recruit staff at the club any position we go for staff not from a successful background.
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Agree starts from the top down simple and we dont make hard decisions when it needs to be made like Dimma this year etc, and when we recruit staff at the club any position we go for staff not from a successful background.
:clapping
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Why ? l will tell ya why.
When there are splits in the playing group & coaching staff. Drags everyone down. Players disgruntled goes through the whole club. Players not working hard enough in the off season or during the premiership season. Those that do stand out like Dustin Martin & Alex Rance who are well rewarded. Then you have those players who put themselves first before the club & the playing group. This puts a hold on blooding careers which causes small groups instead of a team. This also happens with the coaching staff. The club does not work well together & no-one is going anywhere while other clubs progress. Then when they get out on the field, They play like the individuals they are & it clearly shows when they refuse to hit up the best option. The only way this club is going to move forward is to work hard as a club in whole from VFL to AFL. If they don't have that from the start of the pre-season they may as well stay home & play with their dicks
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There are too many people from the Eat em alive graham Richmond days still floating around who will knife in an instant and snipe from the back. To lead this club someone with a big personality has to put a lid on disent like Imran Khan did over the Pakistani cricket team. They have to be home grown in some way to get the kudos amongst the feral tribes, they have to have vision and they have to be able to pick talent on and off field. That's a huge ask for Geez let alone a mere mortal like Benny Gale or the many who have passed before.
If we had got Kevin Sheedy 15 years ago we'd have been alright or Mick Malthouse, both big strong personalities and ex tigers. But we got Frawley and Wallace and now Hardwick and I barely remember any CEO's except Clinton Casey and Neville Crowe. Think of it this way if we'd got Leigh Matthews instead of Brisbane we would have knifed him somehow before we became successful.
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Only since dimma was appointed have we had a fully staffed Footy department, so the previous 25odd years of pooefulness is not a surprise. Now we have to go through the process of finding the right staff for the roles we've finally filled. It will take time, hopefully the process will speed up with balme now given he has a lot of experience and has seen and breathed what a successful footy department setup looks like.
We have finally evolved from a clueless supporter base who always felt it was the coach in isolation or the players when in actual fact its so much more than that.
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Only since dimma was appointed have we had a fully staffed Footy department, so the previous 25odd years of pooefulness is not a surprise. Now we have to go through the process of finding the right staff for the roles we've finally filled. It will take time, hopefully the process will speed up with balme now given he has a lot of experience and has seen and breathed what a successful footy department setup looks like.
We have finally evolved from a clueless supporter base who always felt it was the coach in isolation or the players when in actual fact its so much more than that.
Yeah but we did alright under Northey and then boom he's gone. North barely had a footy dept under Pagan yet they did great. Walls spent years putting Brisbane together on a shoe string before Leigh put them into premiership mode. Sure resources are a valid excuse but we have always fallen down when we are doing well. I think we need a talented big personality with really thick skin who can say "Wayne Campbell your our best midfielder and captain but your a cancer and we're gonna trade you for 2 first round draft picks" and then go and use them well by saying Francis Jackson your a hack I'm signing up someone else to be chief recruiter. Someone who can keep a lid on dissent, pick other talented people and drop bad people.
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Poo deserves poo
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Think one of our biggest issues is we haven't moved with the times.
For so long we thought what worked off field in the 1970's would work in the years that followed. Which meant we didn't actually work hard to try and get better, think we just thought it would happen. It didn't
Finally we realised things don't just happen and we were so far behind we were constantly playing catch up. The fact that we spent so long trying to recover financially didnt help either
I think finally with the Balme appointment we've got the key footy dept leader right. A step forward but so much depends on what happens during the upcoming trade and draft period
Culture is another area. We talk about trying to develop a culture but we lived in the past for so long that I don't think we have a clue what we want our culture to be. We chop we change, rather saying these our core values and not deviating from them. We seem to look at everyone else and try to be like everyone else.
Have called us a dishonest footy club a few times over the last few years. And without rehashing things I've said the tail (players) have wagged the dog on a number of things. It happened again this year.
And I think this is where the board has failed the most. They've allowed this to happen. That's poor leadership, actually it is weak leadership and like it or not it filters through the entire club and thats what happened with us. There has been a massive disconnect between the members and the club this year and it needs to be rectified.
One of my hopes for 2017 after this season from hell is the club makes an effort to give the club back to the members and supporters. By that I mean having our players understand that the family day for example isnt a burden but chance to repay the members who stick by this club. And that perhaps they should make themselves more accessible rather only doing the minimum they are required to do under the CBA.
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Simple answer.
Culture.
This!
It seems the Club has only been able to deal with situations in a binary way. It's either all good, so don't change anything in a major way (top up instead) OR it's all bad, so rip the joint apart. There's no in between. There's no continual focus to uphold elite standards to prevent these extremes.
The past 5 seasons are a perfect example. Many of the issues that were totally exposed this year, were evident in the preceding seasons. However, because we said we were either an up and coming side (2012) or later on winning and making finals (2013-15), these issues were seen as minor and something that could be dismissed as they would eventually fix themselves the following year with an experienced top up or few :P.
The mental frailties in this current team were first displayed in 2012 with the chokes such as against the Suns ("worst 40 secs of football ever") and then against Carlton in all three 2013 meetings. Nothing was changed!
The issue of the team playing sub-standard footy were there in the first half of 2014 but the subsequent 9 wins in a row meant a full on review (such as is occurring now) wasn't needed according to the Club. It was there again regularly right through last year despite 15 H/A wins. In fact, most of those wins contained at least one quarter that was diabolical and more something a bottom 4 side would dish up. It reared its head again in the North EF loss (3rd qtr) which cost us the game in the end and showed something was badly wrong. Again, nothing was extensively reviewed or significantly changed, aside from a futile pipedream chase after Treloar, more fringe top-ups (repeating past mistakes), and giving up two second round picks for a type of player we weren't desperately in need of at the expense of another ruckman (Club said we didn't need one :facepalm ) and quality midfield ballwinner we did desperately need. We also re-signed the senior coach to cement "stability" in another example of everything is fine and will be okay next year, so don't change anything attitude.
Such a "don't change" attitude was even reflected in the membership base when they apathetically did what the Club told them to and allowed our members' democratic rights to be stripped back with the constitutional change allowing unelected appointed directors.
Of course, now we've had a crap year onfield, we've flipped 180 degrees and all and sundry say we need to change anything and everything within and without including some saying we need to offload our best 5 players and start all over again. We've had another farcical board challenge. Members/supporters are complaining about appointed directors being jobs for the boys/girls on the existing Board. We've sacked virtually every assistant coach but senior coach Hardwick stays (because we can't afford to sack him thanks to the Club re-signing him only six months earlier). The list is expected to be turned over again in the major way for the first time in 6-7 years. The question that sticks out is - Why only now make major changes? Why not after 2013, 14 and 15 when we were also shown up for being far far short of the mark?
The dumb and ordinary decisions on and off field have existed for a long time irrespective of those in charge and irrespective of the season we are having on-field. Elite clubs set their own standards and continually try to raise them by critiquing and pushing themselves further even when winning. However, our culture is to only act when the proverbial hits the fan on-field and then set fire to the place off-field. A sign of a lazy, fragile club with a poor culture. That weak culture off-field has reflected itself on-field for the past 30-something years :(.
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Interesting topic, I have often thought it is all my fault... But there are problems at RFC which are not displayed at other clubs, player draft selections, player team selections, coach choices, I wonder are there a common group of people who have been controlling the club behind the scenes for the last 30 odd years making bad decisions and coercing bad decisions from those in supposed power?
I came to melb in 1985 and was convinced to barrack for RFC... I am a richmond tragic as is my 30 year old son, we have had a life of RFC pain... can't wait until we come good?
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So, we have failed to Instill a culture. Post Gr.
Once he went , it became footy nepotism.
Always the imitator, Never the innovator
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Richmond's season went bad this year due to injury & bad management of them. That is the main reason for the failure this season. Can't change nothing now so move forward. Got nothing to do with culture or the past rubbish. Clubs don't function on the past.
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Richmond's season went bad this year due to injury & bad management of them. That is the main reason for the failure this season. Can't change nothing now so move forward. Got nothing to do with culture or the past rubbish. Clubs don't function on the past.
Cattle?
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Richmond's season went bad this year due to injury & bad management of them. That is the main reason for the failure this season. Can't change nothing now so move forward. Got nothing to do with culture or the past rubbish. Clubs don't function on the past.
Disagree
this is one thing that poos me about this club.
All we go on about is how we failed in the past and need to improve, and we focus so much on that and let it ruin our confidence come the start of the season... All you here is about losing three elims, they come out and play like poo this year, not improving cos all they were doing was moping about how we lost three elims in a row.
they need to move on from the past, just learn from it, but focus on the year ahead and quit bloody bringing the past up lol
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I'm taking the Dan Richardson way of thinking and I blame the supporters (so members only).
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Well picking poo coaches is by far the biggest reason, then you have the nuff nuffs who picked these
3rd rate coaches followed close behind by our list managers and recruiters.
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So, we have failed to Instill a culture. Post Gr.
Once he went , it became footy nepotism.
Always the imitator, Never the innovator
:clapping
TIGERITIS is the disease that has ruined this club.
Get rid of this disease of mediocrity and raise the bar to excellence.
Don't accept punces that can't do their job. Simple answer.
Culture.
This!
It seems the Club has only been able to deal with situations in a binary way. It's either all good, so don't change anything in a major way (top up instead) OR it's all bad, so rip the joint apart. There's no in between. There's no continual focus to uphold elite standards to prevent these extremes.
The past 5 seasons are a perfect example. Many of the issues that were totally exposed this year, were evident in the preceding seasons. However, because we said we were either an up and coming side (2012) or later on winning and making finals (2013-15), these issues were seen as minor and something that could be dismissed as they would eventually fix themselves the following year with an experienced top up or few :P.
The mental frailties in this current team were first displayed in 2012 with the chokes such as against the Suns ("worst 40 secs of football ever") and then against Carlton in all three 2013 meetings. Nothing was changed!
The dumb and ordinary decisions on and off field have existed for a long time irrespective of those in charge and irrespective of the season we are having on-field. Elite clubs set their own standards and continually try to raise them by critiquing and pushing themselves further even when winning. However, our culture is to only act when the proverbial hits the fan on-field and then set fire to the place off-field. A sign of a lazy, fragile club with a poor culture. That weak culture off-field has reflected itself on-field for the past 30-something years :(.
Excellent post MT. :clapping
Every time a new regime starts they seem to say all the right things.
Dumma Halfstep told us he had the "blueprint to success".
He told us that any player that wasn't able to win his own ball wouldn't be playing in a Richmond jumper.
He told us we were going to be ruthless and tough. :rollin
We have been an egg team for way too long. It's the single most frustrating thing I just can't stand seeing soft sissy pansy mummies boys crying over a sore pinky or not willing to put the body on the line for the club.
But this club continues to recruit, breed, develop and play limp wristed pansies every year.
I would've sacked the whole footy department and playing group after the 2013 EF debacle.
Someone needs to cut the crap, make a stand and demand nothing more than excellence and if you can't hack the heat then tell 'em to eff off!
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"The question that sticks out is - Why only now make major changes? Why not after 2013, 14 and 15 when we were also shown up for being far far short of the mark?" - This is a very good point. Fear reigns supreme at the club. Caution and stability rather than calculated risks is the guiding principle. We are a reactive rather than proactive club. The funding of the football department is a classic example of this. It always appears that the club has to be in crisis for anything to be done. The preference for the short term fix over long term planning has hurt this club. For the club to be successful the culture of the clubs needs to change. The new culture needs to be adopted by all in the club and influence how decisions are made at the club. The culture to be adopted by the club needs to be spelt out clearly.
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Everyone talks about culture, not reacting quickly enough and effectively it sounds like we are being run like a glorified suburban football club.
My question is why is that STILL happening at Richmond?
After the Wallace era, how on earth could this still be happening?
It feels we made a good start in 2010-2012, then the trade off happened AGAIN.
Why?
This then gets to the essence of our poo
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On top of all these points you only have to look at how RFC players conduct themselves on the ground compared to
Other teams eg Bulldogs.
Looking at that you then say why, so cause vs effect.
When the long awaited Club analysis is revealed then all will become clear :shh??
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I thought MTs post was excellent.
Id add my own point in brief.
Why are we still poo? The wrong people in the place. The right people have the DRIVE, ability and balls to make the right (and often tough) decisions, with one focus - making the club better.
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We need people that will focus on footy
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Everyone talks about culture, not reacting quickly enough and effectively it sounds like we are being run like a glorified suburban football club.
My question is why is that STILL happening at Richmond?
After the Wallace era, how on earth could this still be happening?
It feels we made a good start in 2010-2012, then the trade off happened AGAIN.
Why?
This then gets to the essence of our poo
The players recruiters coaches are bad
But To that to pretend the culture is not soft dumb weak is pretty tough
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Everyone talks about culture, not reacting quickly enough and effectively it sounds like we are being run like a glorified suburban football club.
My question is why is that STILL happening at Richmond?
After the Wallace era, how on earth could this still be happening?
It feels we made a good start in 2010-2012, then the trade off happened AGAIN.
Why?
This then gets to the essence of our poo
Tigeritis-the delusion that everything is always great & everyone's doing a good job for just being you.
Pats on the back all around. "The Richmond Way"
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It's an aboriginal curse!
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It's an aboriginal curse!
I thought Helen D'Amico was Italian?
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Seeing as we can't sack the whole list, let's start with the board.....then out all the Shitmen on notice too.
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Stability is a "joke" word on this forum .
But the reason why the Tigers have been an embarrassment for 3 decades is rampant instability. At least the current regime is doing its best to rectify this - even if its with a coach who has lost the support of the tiger faithful.
Maybe it all started when Tommy Hafey left the club .....who bloody knows.
The club should never have sacked TJ in 1981 - could you imagine Hawthorn sacking Clarkson in 2009 for missing the finals .
Richmond probably would of won the grand final in 1982 had Tony Jewell been coach. We were two goals up at half time .
Instead TJ was replaced by Francis Burke who was a recently retired champion player with no coaching experience.....Imagine Newy coaching us now. Burke got many of his former team mates off side with his condecending coaching style.....especially the senior players.
Then in 1983 the club let walk its captain from 1981 , the captain from 1982 and a triple B&F winner.
What happened between Richmond and Collingwood that year with the poaching of players definitely led to financial instability at the club . 7 years later the club was rattling tins and was a charity case .
Poor old KB never had a chance by the time he became coach . Richmond was so under resourced it didn't even own a brench press back then . Bartlett had to buy sporting equipment for the club out of his own pocket.
By the time the game went truly national in the early 90s we were so far off the pace it wasn't funny .
No way we could compete against interstate juggernauts like West Coast or Adelaide.
Against the odds the club looked like it was headed somewhere in the mid 90s .Finally we were playing a brand of football which made us proud plus we has a young superstar called Matthew Richardson who could be anything.
John Northy who had a year to go on his contract asked for an extension. Not unreasonable - especially in this day and age where Dimma gets a 2 year extension after losing 3 elimination finals in a row.
The club said no and Swooper walked . Richmond replaces its most successful coach in over a decade with a coach who had to be talked out of retirement.
I always wonder how the Tigers would of gone in 1996 had Northey still remained as coach .....better than 9th I would suggest.
Even last decade the club was still well behind the elite clubs with money spent on football departments , player development , recruiting etc . Club just did not have the money to compete with the big boys .
Say what you will about the current administration but Benny Gale has always said there is a correlation between on field success and money spend on football department. At least we have a club now that is debt free and has state of the art facilities.
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I don't buy the under resourced excuse. North was probably the worst resourced club during those years and was always competitive. It even won a flag. Getting a group of players playing for each other and a good coach doesn't need mega millions. It just requires the right men.
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Stability is a "joke" word on this forum .
But the reason why the Tigers have been an embarrassment for 3 decades is rampant instability. At least the current regime is doing its best to rectify this - even if its with a coach who has lost the support of the tiger faithful.
Maybe it all started when Tommy Hafey left the club .....who bloody knows.
The club should never have sacked TJ in 1981 - could you imagine Hawthorn sacking Clarkson in 2009 for missing the finals .
Richmond probably would of won the grand final in 1982 had Tony Jewell been coach. We were two goals up at half time .
Instead TJ was replaced by Francis Burke who was a recently retired champion player with no coaching experience.....Imagine Newy coaching us now. Burke got many of his former team mates off side with his condecending coaching style.....especially the senior players.
Then in 1983 the club let walk its captain from 1981 , the captain from 1982 and a triple B&F winner.
What happened between Richmond and Collingwood that year with the poaching of players definitely led to financial instability at the club . 7 years later the club was rattling tins and was a charity case .
Poor old KB never had a chance by the time he became coach . Richmond was so under resourced it didn't even own a brench press back then . Bartlett had to buy sporting equipment for the club out of his own pocket.
By the time the game went truly national in the early 90s we were so far off the pace it wasn't funny .
No way we could compete against interstate juggernauts like West Coast or Adelaide.
Against the odds the club looked like it was headed somewhere in the mid 90s .Finally we were playing a brand of football which made us proud plus we has a young superstar called Matthew Richardson who could be anything.
John Northy who had a year to go on his contract asked for an extension. Not unreasonable - especially in this day and age where Dimma gets a 2 year extension after losing 3 elimination finals in a row.
The club said no and Swooper walked . Richmond replaces its most successful coach in over a decade with a coach who had to be talked out of retirement.
I always wonder how the Tigers would of gone in 1996 had Northey still remained as coach .....better than 9th I would suggest.
Even last decade the club was still well behind the elite clubs with money spent on football departments , player development , recruiting etc . Club just did not have the money to compete with the big boys .
Say what you will about the current administration but Benny Gale has always said there is a correlation between on field success and money spend on football department. At least we have a club now that is debt free and has state of the art facilities.
You raise some good points Mat, I'm particularly in agreeance with you regarding the whole Northey fiasco. Going back into that point in our history when the wheels conclusively fell off (early 1980's) though, rather than not sacking TJ (which is also an interesting "what if"), I find myself being haunted by another hypothetical question; "what if we'd had the foresight to talk Kevin Sheedy into staying on as senior coach"? Now I know a lot of you will probably be saying this is ancient history and has no bearing on where we find ourselves as a club today. But if Sheeds had carved out the kind of 20year dynasty with us that he did at Essendon, I dare say we could have had a seamless transition from our Hafey era into a powerhouse in the era of the national game. As such we would be a much different entity to the apologetic, dithering, scared of success mess of a club we currently are.
Mat, on your last point about the correlation between on field success and the money spent on the football department, I would say that all logic and common sense would suggest that this must be right. However, in recent years since we started recording healthy profits, haven't we been allocating more and more resources into our football department with little or no success? If so, is there something else holding us back from getting the desired results? Is it a cultural shortcoming or just plain bad luck that we always seem to appoint the wrong coaches, the wrong recruiters and the wrong players? I don't have a definitive answer, but I'm keen to hear what other think.
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Very simple answer to the question
The reason is because we the fans accept mediocrity
We have very very low standards
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Very simple answer to the question
The reason is because we the fans accept mediocrity
We have very very low standards
You have that right, you can just see how some back Hampson, Hunt and Grigg to understand that is the god honest truth
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Interesting comments Rolls Royce - especially about Kevin Sheedy . The culture of Richmond at the time was if you didn't make finals ....you were gone . It was all about a quick fix .
Would Sheedy have survived a year like 1983 if he was coach of Richmond ?
For me 1981 sounds like a real sliding doors moment for Richmond. The tigers were in the 5 with 2 rounds to go .
We lose to Collingwood ( minor premiers ) by 5 points ) - after being up at 3/4 time .
We miss finals by a bees diaphragm.
That loss to Collingwood could of stopped a possible threepeat ......you never know.
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Very simple answer to the question
The reason is because we the fans accept mediocrity
We have very very low standards
You have that right, you can just see how some back Hampson, Hunt and Grigg to understand that is the god honest truth
"Richmond, home of the list blocker
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...and now we're the only side outside GWS & Gold Coast that hasn't made a GF since 1982.... :clapping :gotigers :clapping
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...and now we're the only side outside GWS & Gold Coast that hasn't made a GF since 1982.... :clapping :gotigers :clapping
Puts to bed the excuse that lack of money was/is the reason we've failed as a footy club. While it was major reason from the mid-80s to mid-90s, it doesn't explain the past 20 years of ineptitude. Clubs with less money and far smaller membership and supporter base regularly rising up, falling back to rebuild and then rising again to challenge while we consistently remain in mediocrity limbo land.
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...and now we're the only side outside GWS & Gold Coast that hasn't made a GF since 1982.... :clapping :gotigers :clapping
:-\
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We also over rate our players even when we're poo. Remember kb's mosquito fleet. They were alot of average or wed have been killing it in the middle but we didn't.
Frawley over rated his list. Hardwick has over rated it. It's a perennial thing.
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Well picking poo coaches is by far the biggest reason, then you have the nuff nuffs who picked these
3rd rate coaches followed close behind by our list managers and recruiters.
I have that the other way round bad recruiters then coaches but the coach has a hand in recruiting decisions so it's them too.
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Stability is a "joke" word on this forum .
But the reason why the Tigers have been an embarrassment for 3 decades is rampant instability. At least the current regime is doing its best to rectify this - even if its with a coach who has lost the support of the tiger faithful.
Maybe it all started when Tommy Hafey left the club .....who bloody knows.
The club should never have sacked TJ in 1981 - could you imagine Hawthorn sacking Clarkson in 2009 for missing the finals .
Richmond probably would of won the grand final in 1982 had Tony Jewell been coach. We were two goals up at half time .
Instead TJ was replaced by Francis Burke who was a recently retired champion player with no coaching experience.....Imagine Newy coaching us now. Burke got many of his former team mates off side with his condecending coaching style.....especially the senior players.
Then in 1983 the club let walk its captain from 1981 , the captain from 1982 and a triple B&F winner.
What happened between Richmond and Collingwood that year with the poaching of players definitely led to financial instability at the club . 7 years later the club was rattling tins and was a charity case .
Poor old KB never had a chance by the time he became coach . Richmond was so under resourced it didn't even own a brench press back then . Bartlett had to buy sporting equipment for the club out of his own pocket.
By the time the game went truly national in the early 90s we were so far off the pace it wasn't funny .
No way we could compete against interstate juggernauts like West Coast or Adelaide.
Against the odds the club looked like it was headed somewhere in the mid 90s .Finally we were playing a brand of football which made us proud plus we has a young superstar called Matthew Richardson who could be anything.
John Northy who had a year to go on his contract asked for an extension. Not unreasonable - especially in this day and age where Dimma gets a 2 year extension after losing 3 elimination finals in a row.
The club said no and Swooper walked . Richmond replaces its most successful coach in over a decade with a coach who had to be talked out of retirement.
I always wonder how the Tigers would of gone in 1996 had Northey still remained as coach .....better than 9th I would suggest.
Even last decade the club was still well behind the elite clubs with money spent on football departments , player development , recruiting etc . Club just did not have the money to compete with the big boys .
Say what you will about the current administration but Benny Gale has always said there is a correlation between on field success and money spend on football department. At least we have a club now that is debt free and has state of the art facilities.
the rot set in when we traded the Whale.......traded out our soul.....
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Very simple answer to the question
The reason is because we the fans accept mediocrity
We have very very low standards
TIGERITIS: "the frenzy at the debut of Justin Plapp"
TIGERITIS: "the strong belief that Jarrod Silvester was our next great backman".
TIGERITIS: "the fancy that our club can make a player better than they were at their previous club"
We also over rate our players even when we're poo. Remember kb's mosquito fleet. They were alot of average or wed have been killing it in the middle but we didn't.
Frawley over rated his list. Hardwick has over rated it. It's a perennial thing.
TIGERITIS: "we don't need another ruckman because we have Hampson & Maric"
TIGERITIS: "the delusion that we just need a Steven Motlop to give us a chance to get back into the eight again"
TIGERITIS: "happy to just make finals"
TIGERITIS: "gives the coach an extension for making finals"
TIGERITIS: "Let's make this guy a forward" (http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/NorthMelbourne/Files/Gifs/140915_gif_4.gif)
TIGERITIS: "No, Let's make him a coach!" :clapping
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Very simple answer to the question
The reason is because we the fans accept mediocrity
We have very very low standards
Even if I accepted your premise that we the fans accept mediocrity, and I don't (for every unquestioning clod who thinks our list is just fine, there are hundreds who know it's not), how does what the fans think have any bearing on how the club functions anyway? What can we as observers of the game and nothing more do to tell our clubs management that we demand better? Dump chicken poo on the doorstep? Tried that. At the end of the day our only recourse to protest is to cancel our membership,which is like cutting off your nose to spite your face anyway.
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Would Sheedy have survived a year like 1983 if he was coach of Richmond ?
These scenarios are all hypothetical of course, so we can only speculate what MIGHT have happened if these sliding door moments had occurred. But my feeling is, if Sheedy had been at Richmond we wouldn't have had the miserable 1983 that we did. For a start we probably wouldn't have lost Raines and Cloke who were driven off by frustration with Francis Bourke. We'd still have had Brian Wood too, who was shown the door at Richmond, but ended up going to Essendon and extending his career under Sheedy.
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Very simple answer to the question
The reason is because we the fans accept mediocrity
We have very very low standards
Even if I accepted your premise that we the fans accept mediocrity, and I don't (for every unquestioning clod who thinks our list is just fine, there are hundreds who know it's not), how does what the fans think have any bearing on how the club functions anyway? What can we as observers of the game and nothing more do to tell our clubs management that we demand better? Dump chicken poo on the doorstep? Tried that. At the end of the day our only recourse to protest is to cancel our membership,which is like cutting off your nose to spite your face anyway.
Nailed it. Club is still blaming supporters as late as early this year. It's laughable.
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Culture.
Starts at the top.
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So if culture is the singular issue as to why we are so terrible, did we have a great culture until 82 and then the moment D'Amico ran onto the field our culture became rubbish? How did we go from one of the most dominant and consistently successful clubs to one of the worst.
Just asking the question.
I was born well after our last GF appearance.
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So if culture is the singular issue as to why we are so terrible, did we have a great culture until 82 and then the moment D'Amico ran onto the field our culture became rubbish? How did we go from one of the most dominant and consistently successful clubs to one of the worst.
Just asking the question.
I was born well after our last GF appearance.
We had flag success in every decade from 1920 - 1980 bar the 50s.
D'Amico is a crock of poo.
Basically after GR went, unqualified nepotism took over and has continued until now.
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So if culture is the singular issue as to why we are so terrible, did we have a great culture until 82 and then the moment D'Amico ran onto the field our culture became rubbish? How did we go from one of the most dominant and consistently successful clubs to one of the worst.
Just asking the question.
I was born well after our last GF appearance.
We had flag success in every decade from 1920 - 1980 bar the 50s.
D'Amico is a crock of poo.
Basically after GR went, unqualified nepotism took over and has continued until now.
:clapping
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I wonder if it was a hangover from a great team retiring moving on etc and like brisbane of now the rot set in looking for a messiah from the past glory years and having no money relative to the other clubs. So the few messiahs who they did produce went elsewhere. Even Hawthorn struggled for years to rebuild after the 80s team retired and they had a few ex premiership players return as coach but it wasn't until Clarkson they came good and Clarkson is ex north and the dees.
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I wonder if it was a hangover from a great team retiring moving on etc and like brisbane of now the rot set in looking for a messiah from the past glory years and having no money relative to the other clubs. So the few messiahs who they did produce went elsewhere. Even Hawthorn struggled for years to rebuild after the 80s team retired and they had a few ex premiership players return as coach but it wasn't until Clarkson they came good and Clarkson is ex north and the dees.
Makes sense. So why is it still a problem?
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Well we've had three attempts at rectifying it under Frawley, Wallace and Hardwick all external actors and two have had limited on field success but all three have been screwed by their recruiters and judgement of the list. Probably even if we did have good recruiters none of them would have succeeded as none appear to be astute match day coaches either.
We just chose badly 3 times I reckon, it appears easy to get it wrong but out of fear of instability we haven't dropped these guys earlier. Both Frawley and Wallace knew the game was up early in their last year and should have gone a year earlier than they did. The same is probably true of Hardwick now a senior coach with no assistants, his card is marked.
If anything that is good about Hardwick being extended is it gives Balme and Gale a year to assess the new assistant coaches, players and recruiters before a new senior coach arrives. At which time they get a free hit to fire any they don't think are any good without affecting the senior coach so they get 2 shots at it.
But will Gale and co survive another bad year of 8 - 10 wins? If this forum is any bell weather then no but if the gerrymander that is the club constitution holds then they are as solid as Mugabe in Zimbabwe, there til they die.
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Stability is a "joke" word on this forum .
But the reason why the Tigers have been an embarrassment for 3 decades is rampant instability. At least the current regime is doing its best to rectify this - even if its with a coach who has lost the support of the tiger faithful.
Maybe it all started when Tommy Hafey left the club .....who bloody knows.
The club should never have sacked TJ in 1981 - could you imagine Hawthorn sacking Clarkson in 2009 for missing the finals .
Richmond probably would of won the grand final in 1982 had Tony Jewell been coach. We were two goals up at half time .
Instead TJ was replaced by Francis Burke who was a recently retired champion player with no coaching experience.....Imagine Newy coaching us now. Burke got many of his former team mates off side with his condecending coaching style.....especially the senior players.
Then in 1983 the club let walk its captain from 1981 , the captain from 1982 and a triple B&F winner.
What happened between Richmond and Collingwood that year with the poaching of players definitely led to financial instability at the club . 7 years later the club was rattling tins and was a charity case .
Poor old KB never had a chance by the time he became coach . Richmond was so under resourced it didn't even own a brench press back then . Bartlett had to buy sporting equipment for the club out of his own pocket.
By the time the game went truly national in the early 90s we were so far off the pace it wasn't funny .
No way we could compete against interstate juggernauts like West Coast or Adelaide.
Against the odds the club looked like it was headed somewhere in the mid 90s .Finally we were playing a brand of football which made us proud plus we has a young superstar called Matthew Richardson who could be anything.
John Northy who had a year to go on his contract asked for an extension. Not unreasonable - especially in this day and age where Dimma gets a 2 year extension after losing 3 elimination finals in a row.
The club said no and Swooper walked . Richmond replaces its most successful coach in over a decade with a coach who had to be talked out of retirement.
I always wonder how the Tigers would of gone in 1996 had Northey still remained as coach .....better than 9th I would suggest.
Even last decade the club was still well behind the elite clubs with money spent on football departments , player development , recruiting etc . Club just did not have the money to compete with the big boys .
Say what you will about the current administration but Benny Gale has always said there is a correlation between on field success and money spend on football department. At least we have a club now that is debt free and has state of the art facilities.
the rot set in when we traded the Whale.......traded out outool .....
sorry everyone.....bloody spell check......that should have read traded out our soul.
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dya mean traded out our soul?
soemthing is wierd going on here
I typed in our and then the word soul and it became outool. Twice
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Our tool works better anyway.
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Well we've had three attempts at rectifying it under Frawley, Wallace and Hardwick all external actors and two have had limited on field success but all three have been screwed by their recruiters and judgement of the list. Probably even if we did have good recruiters none of them would have succeeded as none appear to be astute match day coaches either.
We just chose badly 3 times I reckon, it appears easy to get it wrong but out of fear of instability we haven't dropped these guys earlier. Both Frawley and Wallace knew the game was up early in their last year and should have gone a year earlier than they did. The same is probably true of Hardwick now a senior coach with no assistants, his card is marked.
If anything that is good about Hardwick being extended is it gives Balme and Gale a year to assess the new assistant coaches, players and recruiters before a new senior coach arrives. At which time they get a free hit to fire any they don't think are any good without affecting the senior coach so they get 2 shots at it.
But will Gale and co survive another bad year of 8 - 10 wins? If this forum is any bell weather then no but if the gerrymander that is the club constitution holds then they are as solid as Mugabe in Zimbabwe, there til they die.
So, like Bourke, Sproule,Patterson,Jewell,Bartlett,Jeans,Geishen,Walls etc we got the coach wrong?
It's like shooting the drug addicts instead of the dealers.
I don't think the essence of our issue is the coach, it's one step removed from that.
I think half our issue is where we target the problem
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dya mean traded out our soul?
soemthing is wierd going on here
I typed in our and then the word soul and it became outool. Twice
Its a swear filter glitch which changes rsole to tool
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dya mean traded out our soul?
soemthing is wierd going on here
I typed in our and then the word soul and it became outool. Twice
Its a swear filter glitch which changes rsole to tool
wow, so you can attempt to offend someone, be censored for it, and then still achieve your original aim?
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Very simple answer to the question
The reason is because we the fans accept mediocrity
We have very very low standards
Even if I accepted your premise that we the fans accept mediocrity, and I don't (for every unquestioning clod who thinks our list is just fine, there are hundreds who know it's not), how does what the fans think have any bearing on how the club functions anyway? What can we as observers of the game and nothing more do to tell our clubs management that we demand better? Dump chicken poo on the doorstep? Tried that. At the end of the day our only recourse to protest is to cancel our membership,which is like cutting off your nose to spite your face anyway.
The problem is that the fans are too loyal, this breeds complacency in the board and footy department which leads to crappy results.
If our membership dropped , say 10000 members next year, maybe the board will pull their finger out and actually sign a sponsor, and get a coach with half a brain.
As it stands, due to the members loyalty, and our low standards in accepting mediocre results, the board does nothing and 7 years on we are stuck with a proven failure of a coach for another 2 years.
This is directly the members fault due to accepting the rubbish we have been given.
My advise, don't buy a membership. Make the club struggle, then maybe they will be forced to act with urgency.
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So don't buy a membership? Then when an EGM or AGM gives us a chance to vote for change, we can't. Or do we do what the FoF group do and rush out and buy one when you want that chance?
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The board is stacked and rigged
They put their mates on and and stay 15 years without any accountability
You want to throw good money after bad that's fine
Good for you
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The board is stacked and rigged
They put their mates on and and stay 15 years without any accountability
You want to throw good money after bad that's fine
Good for you
Who says my money is good?
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Very simple answer to the question
The reason is because we the fans accept mediocrity
We have very very low standards
Even if I accepted your premise that we the fans accept mediocrity, and I don't (for every unquestioning clod who thinks our list is just fine, there are hundreds who know it's not), how does what the fans think have any bearing on how the club functions anyway? What can we as observers of the game and nothing more do to tell our clubs management that we demand better? Dump chicken poo on the doorstep? Tried that. At the end of the day our only recourse to protest is to cancel our membership,which is like cutting off your nose to spite your face anyway.
The problem is that the fans are too loyal, this breeds complacency in the board and footy department which leads to crappy results.
If our membership dropped , say 10000 members next year, maybe the board will pull their finger out and actually sign a sponsor, and get a coach with half a brain.
As it stands, due to the members loyalty, and our low standards in accepting mediocre results, the board does nothing and 7 years on we are stuck with a proven failure of a coach for another 2 years.
This is directly the members fault due to accepting the rubbish we have been given.
My advise, don't buy a membership. Make the club struggle, then maybe they will be forced to act with urgency.
100% correct. Board members with no idea appointing key staff with no idea. And members joining up and not demanding success only continues the cycle.
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Peg and Ben don't have a job without our funding.
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Very simple answer to the question
The reason is because we the fans accept mediocrity
We have very very low standards
Even if I accepted your premise that we the fans accept mediocrity, and I don't (for every unquestioning clod who thinks our list is just fine, there are hundreds who know it's not), how does what the fans think have any bearing on how the club functions anyway? What can we as observers of the game and nothing more do to tell our clubs management that we demand better? Dump chicken poo on the doorstep? Tried that. At the end of the day our only recourse to protest is to cancel our membership,which is like cutting off your nose to spite your face anyway.
The problem is that the fans are too loyal, this breeds complacency in the board and footy department which leads to crappy results.
If our membership dropped , say 10000 members next year, maybe the board will pull their finger out and actually sign a sponsor, and get a coach with half a brain.
As it stands, due to the members loyalty, and our low standards in accepting mediocre results, the board does nothing and 7 years on we are stuck with a proven failure of a coach for another 2 years.
This is directly the members fault due to accepting the rubbish we have been given.
My advise, don't buy a membership. Make the club struggle, then maybe they will be forced to act with urgency.
I agree with you in so much that I think the club has taken its' fans loyalty for granted, and there doesn't seem to be too much urgency around the place either at board or player level to reward the fans. Everybody just seems pretty comfortable in their cushy roles as long as the gravy train keeps running on, so maybe you're right that a substantial drop in membership might put a much needed rocket up the place. Or it might have a detrimental effect in that they don't have the necessary funds to put into the footy dept, recruiting or retaining some of our better players in danger of being poached. Either way, good or bad, I think there will be a massive drop off in memberships next year, as fans are disillusioned with our continuing hopelessness, and the prospect of two more years with a dud coach.
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RFC is like a Government Organisation where people come in at 9.30, knock off at 4.30 and take 2 hour lunches. No accountability, deadlines and an endless budget. If something needs to be done just call in the external consultants and pay them what they want.
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RFC is like a Government Organisation where people come in at 9.30, knock off at 4.30 and take 2 hour lunches. No accountability, deadlines and an endless budget. If something needs to be done just call in the external consultants and pay them what they want.
Ugh.
You criticizing government organizations and Pen and Benny is like my mate claiming he's a better guitarist than Slash.
You should start a movement. The non-members of the RFC united.
Of course, membership is for peasants and supplicants, so you'd have to give each other code names and never meet in the same place twice.
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Another example of how we are poo - they can't even lock in new assistamts.
Balmey must be scratching his head.
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Another example of how we are poo - they can't even lock in new assistamts.
Balmey must be scratching his head.
Less than halfa before Caracella officially comes to the tiges.
Keep it up Ox ;)
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Another example of how we are poo - they can't even lock in new assistamts.
Balmey must be scratching his head.
Less than halfa before Caracella officially comes to the tiges.
Keep it up Ox ;)
Beautiful timing there by Ox .
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Another example of how we are poo - they can't even lock in new assistamts.
Balmey must be scratching his head.
Less than halfa before Caracella officially comes to the tiges.
Keep it up Ox ;)
I have no chance against such a shrewd PR machine as the RFC. :snidegrin
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The board is stacked and rigged
They put their mates on and and stay 15 years without any accountability
You want to throw good money after bad that's fine
Good for you
Do you realise that not 1 board member has been on for 15 years ?
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The board is stacked and rigged
They put their mates on and and stay 15 years without any accountability
You want to throw good money after bad that's fine
Good for you
Do you realise that not 1 board member has been on for 15 years ?
But it sounded good
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The board is stacked and rigged
They put their mates on and and stay 15 years without any accountability
You want to throw good money after bad that's fine
Good for you
Do you realise that not 1 board member has been on for 15 years ?
But it sounded good
Should have said 150 years lol.
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The board is stacked and rigged
They put their mates on and and stay 15 years without any accountability
You want to throw good money after bad that's fine
Good for you
Do you realise that not 1 board member has been on for 15 years ?
do you realise that you are being pedantic?
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The board is stacked and rigged
They put their mates on and and stay 15 years without any accountability
You want to throw good money after bad that's fine
Good for you
Do you realise that not 1 board member has been on for 15 years ?
Has a good ring to it.....RFC celebrating mediocrity for 150 years
But it sounded good
Should have said 150 years lol.
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RFC is like a Government Organisation where people come in at 9.30, knock off at 4.30 and take 2 hour lunches. No accountability, deadlines and an endless budget. If something needs to be done just call in the external consultants and pay them what they want.
Ugh.
You criticizing government organizations and Pen and Benny is like my mate claiming he's a better guitarist than Slash.
You should start a movement. The non-members of the RFC united.
Of course, membership is for peasants and supplicants, so you'd have to give each other code names and never meet in the same place twice.
I'll put my hand up for this movement. My first point of call is to make sure to let the public know they aren't a supporter if they aren't a member
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RFC is like a Government Organisation where people come in at 9.30, knock off at 4.30 and take 2 hour lunches. No accountability, deadlines and an endless budget. If something needs to be done just call in the external consultants and pay them what they want.
Ugh.
You criticizing government organizations and Pen and Benny is like my mate claiming he's a better guitarist than Slash.
You should start a movement. The non-members of the RFC united.
Of course, membership is for peasants and supplicants, so you'd have to give each other code names and never meet in the same place twice.
I'll put my hand up for this movement. My first point of call is to make sure to let the public know they aren't a supporter if they aren't a member
:lol :clapping
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Second is to implement a head of recruiting above FJ and his replacement in subsequent years. Welcome aboard Claw. Have I talked to him I hear you ask? Well no, but we are old mates
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How would dunkley go in yellow and black?
Cotchin would get a game at doggies
Doggies would sort Cotchin out. Ill tell yas that for nuffin
So is the problem Cotchin or Richmond then ??
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How would dunkley go in yellow and black?
Cotchin would get a game at doggies
Doggies would sort Cotchin out. Ill tell yas that for nuffin
So is the problem Cotchin or Richmond then ??
Both are a match made in heaven
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How would dunkley go in yellow and black?
Cotchin would get a game at doggies
Doggies would sort Cotchin out. Ill tell yas that for nuffin
So is the problem Cotchin or Richmond then ??
Both are a match made in heaven
So is the problem rioli. Markov. Vlastuin. Rance. Martin. Miles. Cotchin or Richmond?
Why is it other sides could "sort him out" apparently ?
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The problem with recruiting so many good characters and solid citizens is that none will challenge the poo culture and the acceptance of mediocrity and will merely pass the baton down to the next generation. We need players that will not only question and challenge themselves but also the coaches and the club. Bunch of soft meek people at the club allowing the poor culture from the top to filter down.
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Meanwhile hawthorn have six on field coaches ...
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The problem with recruiting so many good characters and solid citizens is that none will challenge the poo culture and the acceptance of mediocrity and will merely pass the baton down to the next generation. We need players that will not only question and challenge themselves but also the coaches and the club. Bunch of soft meek people at the club allowing the poor culture from the top to filter down.
:clapping
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The problem with recruiting so many good characters and solid citizens is that none will challenge the poo culture and the acceptance of mediocrity and will merely pass the baton down to the next generation. We need players that will not only question and challenge themselves but also the coaches and the club. Bunch of soft meek people at the club allowing the poor culture from the top to filter down.
RFC is a NWO.
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Wasn't he Sposed to be assistant coach in th u18s next year
Jobs for the boys