One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: evaluator on May 31, 2007, 01:03:31 PM
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Draft Strategy that Richmond may insert for this years trading and national U18s championships in late June to Novembers / Decembers drafts.
As most would attest to, Richmond is required to rebuild now. We did not 2 years ago, and unfortunately Hawthorn and Collingwood have. They are not that far ahead of us and if we do things right, we could be ahead of both after the selections are made later in the year.
A couple of points:
Richmond needs 2 Crash and Bash ruckmen for centre square work.
Richmond requires more 2 way runners that hurt when we have the ball, and negate when other sides do. We have too many downhill skiers at present. Tambling, Deledio, Meyer, Howat, Pettifer, Tuck Schulz. All have big areas of concern. Can it be rectified? Not all of them. See below.
This years crop. Not as deep this year, but quality will be found through to pick 40-50. We should trade accordingly.
Schulz: Trade with Doggies: For 3rd Round pick Cameron Faulkner, and Minson/Tim Walsh.
Pettifer: Trade with St Kilda for 3rd round Pick.
Tuck: Trade with Collingwood for 3rd round pick.
Delist: These players will never win Richmond a premiership. On ya bikes! Can you do it all at once? Doubtful but I would for our assault in 2011 or was that 3011?
Jackson, Moore, Howat, Knobel, Bowden. P, Hyde, Krakeour, Graham, Tivendale
Players in this years Championships:
I have stayed away from looking at interstate only Ebert, Masten are probably worthy. Some might improve also later. We do not want the go-home factor again. Re. Danny Meyer.
People can work out who the players play for themselves, or watch the carnival.
Midfield / Back flanks / Wings / Pockets. Nearly in order:
1. Trent Cotchin
2. James Polkinghorn
3. Aaron Joseph ( I love this blokes aggression)
4. Luke Potts
5. Kane Smith
6. Nicholas Peters
7. Jackson Hall
8. Kris Nye
9. Scott Selwood
10. Rory Sloane
11. Ashley Arrowsmith
12. Ricky Hurley
Ruckmen / Resting Forward Pockets.
1. Matt Kreuzer
2. Tom Bellchambers
3. Will Sullivan
4. Mark Wescott.
Spine / Utilities:
1. Andrew Otten
2. Matthew Lobbe
3. Tobias Thoolen
4. Hugh Sandilands
5. Jeremy Laidler
6. Shaun Dixon
7. Callan Ward
8. Tim Bongetti (coming off a knee. Is it sound?)
So how should we attack the draft days?
3 Ruckmen
2 KPP (preferably defenders)
3 mids
2 utilities
My selections long ways out from home are: Keep in mind I dont think Carlton will win another 3 games.
2: Matt Kreuzer / Trent Cotchin (Ruck / mid)
18: Bellchambers (Ruck)
19: Otten (Spine / utility)
3rd round saints: Polkinghorne (Mid)
3rd round dogs Thoolen (Spine / utility)
3rd round Pies Lobbe (Ruck / Spine / utility)
35 Joseph (Mid )
51 Hall (Mid / utility)
67 Peters (Mid / Rover)
83? Nye (Mid / Rover)
PSD: Target Charman / Dowler / Meesan, for mine.
Rookies: Howat / Graham off: 2 of the players off the listed players still available after draft day named above.
I would like: Shaun Dixon and Mark Wescott / Nye.
So If I were to get my way we would have 8 picks in the top 51 of a draft where afterwards it gets slim pickings. 2011 here we come!
Note: At This stage Kreuzer is my number one pick. He is going to be an outstanding, outstanding footballer. Mids can be found later in drafts as we all know.
Lets prey that Carlton and Melbourne pick up soon.
We cannot afford to win games if it to the detriment of the priority pick, pick 1 and first pickings at the rookie and PSDs draft selections.
I can hear the sleeping giant about to waken!
If we follow a similar structure to the one above, we will exceed Collingwood, Hawthorn and Carlton by the length of the Flemington straight. In my eyes we would have the much greater player personnel.
2011 here we come.
Keep in mind many things can happen before the lead up to the draft. However the names mentioned are quality players and will further advance our mighty football club.
Enjoy reading! Most welcome to hear thoughts and comments.
Thanks in advance.
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Welcome to OER evaluator. What an entrance :).
Enter stage left Ramps ;D
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Love the analysis that you've put in but it's far too early to start this type of stuff however I'll give a few pointers on what I think back. :thumbsup
As most would attest to, Richmond is required to rebuild now. We did not 2 years ago, and unfortunately Hawthorn and Collingwood have. They are not that far ahead of us and if we do things right, we could be ahead of both after the selections are made later in the year.
We are rebuilding Eval. Just that Hawthorn were already on that road before us and Collingwood have the power and were never really THAT down, they just lacked a little bit, we were a complete disaster zone.
A couple of points:
Richmond needs 2 Crash and Bash ruckmen for centre square work. - Just 1, Patto and Simmonds are just fine at the moment.
Richmond requires more 2 way runners that hurt when we have the ball, and negate when other sides do. We have too many downhill skiers at present. Tambling, Deledio, Meyer, Howat, Pettifer, Tuck Schulz. All have big areas of concern. Can it be rectified? Not all of them. See below. We need in and under mids, like you'll see Tom Hislop, when he debuts for the Bombers very soon, gun inside mid-fielder that unbelievably dropped to 18. I assume the Bombers are still playing him as inside mid.
This years crop. Not as deep this year, but quality will be found through to pick 40-50. We should trade accordingly.
Schulz: Trade with Doggies: For 3rd Round pick Cameron Faulkner, and Minson/Tim Walsh. Good Lord no, Minson is not a thinker and that would just be another ruckman, also Schulz doesnt demand two players in return. Should think about straight swap with Adelaide for Meyer or Schulz for Meeson. If we dont get him we go for Kruezer, if we do, Cotchin it is.
Pettifer: Trade with St Kilda for 3rd round Pick. - Sounds Fair but I dont think Petts will go anywhere.
Tuck: Trade with Collingwood for 3rd round pick. - As much as I'd like to, no, remember how I said we lack inside mid-fielders? Well while this one can dispose of the ball well at all, he gets down and dirty and we have no one to replace him in that area. :banghead
Delist: These players will never win Richmond a premiership. On ya bikes! Can you do it all at once? Doubtful but I would for our assault in 2011 or was that 3011?
Jackson ( Writing is on the wall for Jacko, perform well for the remainder of the year or your time is up.)
Moore Probably too early to delist, give him a bit longer but needs to break into the senior team again for at least 5 more games to cement a spot for next year.
Howat Possibly the next Tivendale (but a bit better) as much as I hate to put the mocker on him, Gets the ball very well, fails in the skills department, needs to develop some kind of opposite foot, still on rookie list anyway. Get the feeling he'll be there next year.
Knobel Knobs is expired, injury has knocked any chance of him continuing imo, as well as the possibility of a new number 1 pick ruckman, disposable.
Bowden. P Tough call on Paddy, must get over these injuries and show something of the form he had last year, problem is the gameplan has moved to play on at all costs and thats why Bowden failed at the Bulldogs when Eade turned up. It doesnt suit him.
Hyde Probably not this year as alot more are in the firing line but must show more than his superior evasion skills, tries much more than alot of our team week-in week-out and that;s why I am I fan but but not a stayer. Possibly one more year to plug holes in the list.
Krakeour He's had time to develop and just doesnt do enough, Right in the firing line.
Graham Rookie Ruckman, tough to say, still very early days for Gus but a drafted ruckman would really put the cat amongst the pigeons for him. :-\
Tivendale We all wish but we know the amount of time he gets the ball gets noticed and that keeps him on the list, he wont be delisted. Couldve been a superstar if he had a reliable kick, unfortunate.
Players in this years Championships:
GOING TO BASICALLY LEAVE THIS SECTION - TOO EARLY FOR THIS, BUT BELLCHAMBERS SHOULDNT BE TAKEN AT 18 IF KRUZER IS AT 1, FAR TOO RISKY TO GET TWO RUCKMEN WHEN WE DONT NEED THAT MANY.
I have stayed away from looking at interstate only Ebert, Masten are probably worthy. Some might improve also later. We do not want the go-home factor again. Re. Danny Meyer.
People can work out who the players play for themselves, or watch the carnival.
Midfield / Back flanks / Wings / Pockets. Nearly in order:
1. Trent Cotchin
2. James Polkinghorn
3. Aaron Joseph ( I love this blokes aggression)
4. Luke Potts
5. Kane Smith
6. Nicholas Peters
7. Jackson Hall
8. Kris Nye
9. Scott Selwood
10. Rory Sloane
11. Ashley Arrowsmith
12. Ricky Hurley
Ruckmen / Resting Forward Pockets.
1. Matt Kreuzer
2. Tom Bellchambers
3. Will Sullivan
4. Mark Wescott.
Spine / Utilities:
1. Andrew Otten
2. Matthew Lobbe
3. Tobias Thoolen
4. Hugh Sandilands
5. Jeremy Laidler
6. Shaun Dixon
7. Callan Ward
8. Tim Bongetti (coming off a knee. Is it sound?)
So how should we attack the draft days?
3 Ruckmen
2 KPP (preferably defenders)
3 mids
2 utilities
My selections long ways out from home are: Keep in mind I dont think Carlton will win another 3 games.
2: Matt Kreuzer / Trent Cotchin (Ruck / mid)
18: Bellchambers (Ruck)
19: Otten (Spine / utility)
3rd round saints: Polkinghorne (Mid)
3rd round dogs Thoolen (Spine / utility)
3rd round Pies Lobbe (Ruck / Spine / utility)
35 Joseph (Mid )
51 Hall (Mid / utility)
67 Peters (Mid / Rover)
83? Nye (Mid / Rover)
PSD: Target Charman / Dowler / Meesan, for mine.
Rookies: Howat / Graham off: 2 of the players off the listed players still available after draft day named above.
I would like: Shaun Dixon and Mark Wescott / Nye.
So If I were to get my way we would have 8 picks in the top 51 of a draft where afterwards it gets slim pickings. 2011 here we come!
Note: At This stage Kreuzer is my number one pick. He is going to be an outstanding, outstanding footballer. Mids can be found later in drafts as we all know. (We also know ruckman can RE: Cox, Sandilands.
Lets prey that Carlton and Melbourne pick up soon. ( Only Carlton, Melbourne wont be a hassle, they will click. Carlton wouldnt be a problem is Stevens was still in. I think we have 2-3 wins in us, maybe more if Brown and Simmo can get back and fit.)
We cannot afford to win games if it to the detriment of the priority pick, pick 1 and first pickings at the rookie and PSDs draft selections. Doubt we'll win 4 but they should win 3 to make me happy. :)
I can hear the sleeping giant about to waken! Same, Exciting times. I have Faith in Terry.
If we follow a similar structure to the one above, we will exceed Collingwood, Hawthorn and Carlton by the length of the Flemington straight. In my eyes we would have the much greater player personnel. If JoN can hit his straps, if Meyer can show his true potential(which is HUUUUGE), same with Tambo, who I have no doubt will, and if Jack and one if either Hughes or Schulz can make that step up to 22 gamers, if Simmo, Browny and Cogs can get back to fitness and Thursty steps back to where he started we'll surprise alot of people next year. :thumbsup
2011 here we come. Amen
Enjoy reading! Most welcome to hear thoughts and comments.
Thanks in advance.
There ya go, look over them. :thumbsup
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Welcome to OER evaluator. What an entrance :).
Enter stage left Ramps ;D
Im here lol...its May 31. the stockmarkets roaring. Its raining which is a good thing and the carnivals on in afew weeks. ;D
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Northern Knights captain Jack Grimes is another I reckon we should look at :thumbsup
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What's with the Northern Knights love this year? :-\
Seems it's superstar city there.
Looking like having 3 of the top 10 draft picks from one team if the hype is correct. ???
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Wow.
Big entry to the forum there.
Nice bit of analysis, but it is way, way to early to look at this stuff for me.
If I was a recriuter I would have to look at it but as a Richmond support I am more concerend about beating Brisbane this week.
Welcome aboard the good ship OER.
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What's with the Northern Knights love this year? :-\
Seems it's superstar city there.
Looking like having 3 of the top 10 draft picks from one team if the hype is correct. ???
Pat Vezpremi may also end up in the top 10
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PSD: Target Charman / Dowler / Meesan, for mine.
Personally wouldn't mind Dowler as he is a young tall, same goes for Meesen.
Charman for me is a no because I don't think he is going to leave Queensland
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Richmond needs 2 Crash and Bash ruckmen for centre square work.
And that aren't injury prone. That's why I would avoid Charman. We also need 2 crash and bash onballers with good/decent foot skills. We only have Foley at the moment.
Richmond requires more 2 way runners that hurt when we have the ball, and negate when other sides do. We have too many downhill skiers at present. Tambling, Deledio, Meyer, Howat, Pettifer, Tuck Schulz. All have big areas of concern. Can it be rectified? Not all of them. See below.
A bit harsh on Lids. Tambo will be fine also in time. The others have question marks. Danny, Petts and Schulz have natural ability but need to work 1000 times harder; Howat is one-sided; and Tuck has poor foot skills and is one paced.
This year's crop. Not as deep this year, but quality will be found through to pick 40-50. We should trade accordingly.
Schulz: Trade with Doggies: For 3rd Round pick Cameron Faulkner, and Minson/Tim Walsh.
Pettifer: Trade with St Kilda for 3rd round Pick.
Tuck: Trade with Collingwood for 3rd round pick.
Probably what they are currently worth on current form but the question you have to ask is what chances are there that we will get a better player in return from a 3rd round pick in a draft that is only 40-50 deep.
Delist: These players will never win Richmond a premiership. On ya bikes! Can you do it all at once? Doubtful but I would for our assault in 2011 or was that 3011?
Jackson, Moore, Howat, Knobel, Bowden. P, Hyde, Krakeour, Graham, Tivendale
Tivs won't be going anywhere IMO. No trade value yet still a better option that many of his teammates. Paddy has had a injury-interrupted year. The rest are at risk.
Commenting on U18 players at this stage is too early. Thoughts will change by year's end and after the U18 champs and draft camp. Think Mitch Clark who IIRC went into the start of last year as No 1 and slipped to 9. Kreuzer on current form is No 1 this year.
So how should we attack the draft days?
3 Ruckmen
2 KPP (preferably defenders)
3 mids
2 utilities
At least one too many ruckmen and a big risk using both your first two picks on them. We really need to find a gun crash and bash onballer.
I'm happy for a cleanout but 10 picks in one draft is a lot. Plus late picks more often than not don't make it. Rainsey is an exception rather than the rule. I too wish we would develop a KPP (preferably a defender) on our rookie list. I didn't understand us not doing this this year but we need to next year. No point getting too many of the same player.
PSD: Target Charman / Dowler / Meesan, for mine.
Charman too injury prone. I can't see the Hawks or Crows letting go the other two. We've got to use this first PSD pick (if we get it) as leverage. Too early to judge.
Mids can be found later in drafts as we all know.
It's our midfield that is weak. In time as the youngster develop we may fix our lack of depth but we lack class as well. We need to find that class and you won't find that later in the draft.
Lets prey that Carlton and Melbourne pick up soon.
We cannot afford to win games if it to the detriment of the priority pick, pick 1 and first pickings at the rookie and PSDs draft selections.
Like Bluey, I can see the Dees winning games in the second half of the year but without Stevens Carlton is struggling big time.
This will sound dreadful but I hope once we do crack a win we don't all of a sudden get on roll with Browny and Simmo coming back in the second half of the season. We could finish ahead of the Dees, Blues and Lions and end up with only pick 5 and no priority pick after all the pain of so many narrow losses and 9 straight losses this year. Good for morale in the short-term but not for long-term list building.
I can hear the sleeping giant about to waken!
If we follow a similar structure to the one above, we will exceed Collingwood, Hawthorn and Carlton by the length of the Flemington straight. In my eyes we would have the much greater player personnel.
2011 here we come.
I'm still optimistic too in the long-term :thumbsup but we need to take our bad tasting medicine now to benefit in the long run. The draft system sux as it still encourages tanking (eg: Carlton possibly getting first pick) but we need to make use of it to our full advantage.
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Does anyone reckon that Dowler could make it at Full Back? He seems to be struggling at Hawthorn and we have some good forward talls. We need a Full Back- could he be converted successfully is a decent to ask the VFL watchers in here who have seen him.
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Does anyone reckon that Dowler could make it at Full Back? He seems to be struggling at Hawthorn and we have some good forward talls. We need a Full Back- could he be converted successfully is a decent to ask the VFL watchers in here who have seen him.
You've got to wonder how much that fractured hip has affected his ability to play footy.
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Does anyone reckon that Dowler could make it at Full Back? He seems to be struggling at Hawthorn and we have some good forward talls. We need a Full Back- could he be converted successfully is a decent to ask the VFL watchers in here who have seen him.
No, lacks the fire in the belly and when played down back looks most comfortable at CHB but we already have Polak.
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Personally wouldn't mind Dowler as he is a young tall, same goes for Meesen.
Some guy on PRE Rumour Page says that Dowler has been speaking with Miller a lot in the last month.
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We were certainly very interested in Dowler at draft time and I'm sure we would be looking at a lot of talls around the league. We currently have close to the bare minimum of talls and we know that we will be minus at least a few more next year. It would be no surprise to see us targetting young KPPs and rucks who have been in the system 2 or 3 years as the draft is not meant to be that deep.
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Personally wouldn't mind Dowler as he is a young tall, same goes for Meesen.
Some guy on PRE Rumour Page says that Dowler has been speaking with Miller a lot in the last month.
If he comes it will be as a forward IMO, and could well mean bye-bye to Schulz
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Is Dowler still struggling with his hip after the car accident? I'd be surprised if Hawthorn let him go after just 2 years unless they thought he won't be the player we all thought he could be prior to the accident.
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According to a poster on BF we are interested in a kid called something Sanfilipo.
First off he is a gun and richmond are looking to draft him with a late pick in this years draft, but that looks unlikely at the moment because with every game I watch him play he keeps getting better and better, and it looks as if he will go late 1st round or early second round. The kid is a ball magnet and he plays like he has the ball on a string, He is getting BOG after BOG in the aps this season, is there anything this kid can't do
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331277 (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331277)
Anyone got any mail on him?
Lids also gets a huge rap by another poster on page 2.
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According to a poster on BF we are interested in a kid called something Sanfilipo.
First off he is a gun and richmond are looking to draft him with a late pick in this years draft, but that looks unlikely at the moment because with every game I watch him play he keeps getting better and better, and it looks as if he will go late 1st round or early second round. The kid is a ball magnet and he plays like he has the ball on a string, He is getting BOG after BOG in the aps this season, is there anything this kid can't do
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331277 (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331277)
Anyone got any mail on him?
Lids also gets a huge rap by another poster on page 2.
Cristian SANFILIPPO
No: 40 (2006), 8 (2007)
Clubs: Northern Knights, Bulleen Templestowe JFC, Xavier College
D.O.B.: 27/07/1989
Hgt: 181cm (2007), 180cm (2006)
Wgt: 77kg (2007), 74kg (2006)
TAC Cup stats (2006, 2007)
http://www.sportingpulse.com/nf/team_info.cgi?player=Cristian%20Sanfilippo&action=PSTATS&pID=142244602&client=1-3020-0-40212-4413270 (http://www.sportingpulse.com/nf/team_info.cgi?player=Cristian%20Sanfilippo&action=PSTATS&pID=142244602&client=1-3020-0-40212-4413270)
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What's with the Northern Knights love this year? :-\
Seems it's superstar city there.
Looking like having 3 of the top 10 draft picks from one team if the hype is correct. ???
yeah i agree ...
the last Northern Knights player we got ... he was All-Australian ... Adam Pattison ... and he can't kick ... but i still think ruck is his go and he is ok ...
there are other TAC Cup teams ... Calder Cannons are a champion team for years and we hardly looked at them ... though ...
when we have drafted Calder players it hasn't worked out ...
Rodan, Limbach, White, Hartigan ...
i know a bloke who does the stats for the Western Jets and he is a follow Tiger and he believes "Mitch Brenner" we should get !!!
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There's a few Calder Cannons now with Coburg so we might be picking up a few as rookies down the track through our alignment. Calder -> Coburg -> Richmond :thumbsup.
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talk about pressure, Cotchin is already being talked up as Judd II on BF
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talk about pressure, Cotchin is already being talked up as Judd II on BF
So was Lids in his last year of junior footy. Just ridiculous to make such statements. Cotchin has been compared to Judd, Lids and Murphy so far. The kid hasn't even been drafted yet.
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bump
A change in my draft.
1. Matt Kreuzer
17. Tom Bellchambers
18. Andy Otten
34. Brad Jones
50. Aaron Joseph
66. Sam Staveniuter
PSD: Charman, Dowler, Maric, Meesan. In order.
Rookies: Hall, Nye. Zomer / Gazzo.
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Henderson and Collier are definitely two I reckon we should look at in the 2nd round
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Henderson and Collier are definitely two I reckon we should look at in the 2nd round
won't last until there. If they did great.
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Collier could definitely last that long
Henderson is probably more wishful thinking, but the fact that he has had a long-term injury (broken leg IIRC) means he may drop :pray
Lachie would be exactly what we need as a big and athletic KPP
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Collier could definitely last that long
Henderson is probably more wishful thinking, but the fact that he has had a long-term injury (broken leg IIRC) means he may drop :pray
Lachie would be exactly what we need as a big and athletic KPP
that would change my picks for sure. Have a go Bluey yourself.
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I probably don't know as many young draftees as you but I will give our first 3 picks ago (assuming we get a PP).
1) Cotchin - Kreuzer or Cotchin is fine by me, but would prefer Cotchin as he is a tough ball extractor, plus there are some very good ruck prospects a bit later in the draft. Good size, tough, clean, natural inside midfielder, will allow Lids flourish on a wing
17) McEvoy - Probably wishful thinking. Has the talent to be top 10, but sure do wish he slips through as he would be perfect for us. Really mobile, versatile and athletic. Also an excellent tap ruckman
18) Henderson - 196cm and big-bodied but athletic KPP. Exactly what we need for a KPP post. More of a forward, but could be converted to a backman. Also has excellent kicking skills for a big man
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I probably don't know as many young draftees as you but I will give our first 3 picks ago (assuming we get a PP).
1) Cotchin - Kreuzer or Cotchin is fine by me, but would prefer Cotchin as he is a tough ball extractor, plus there are some very good ruck prospects a bit later in the draft. Good size, tough, clean, natural inside midfielder, will allow Lids flourish on a wing
17) McEvoy - Probably wishful thinking. Has the talent to be top 10, but sure do wish he slips through as he would be perfect for us. Really mobile, versatile and athletic. Also an excellent tap ruckman
18) Henderson - 196cm and big-bodied but athletic KPP. Exactly what we need for a KPP post. More of a forward, but could be converted to a backman. Also has excellent kicking skills for a big man
I would be happy with that for sure. :pray
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I'm all for Cotchin if we get the No.1 pick. I think there is a bit to be said for drafting the best available talent.
If you've got holes that you need to fill, but 18 very good players, a decent coach should be able to formulate a game plan that plays to your strengths.
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I probably don't know as many young draftees as you but I will give our first 3 picks ago (assuming we get a PP).
1) Cotchin - Kreuzer or Cotchin is fine by me, but would prefer Cotchin as he is a tough ball extractor, plus there are some very good ruck prospects a bit later in the draft. Good size, tough, clean, natural inside midfielder, will allow Lids flourish on a wing
17) McEvoy - Probably wishful thinking. Has the talent to be top 10, but sure do wish he slips through as he would be perfect for us. Really mobile, versatile and athletic. Also an excellent tap ruckman
18) Henderson - 196cm and big-bodied but athletic KPP. Exactly what we need for a KPP post. More of a forward, but could be converted to a backman. Also has excellent kicking skills for a big man
It is probably wishful thinking as you say bluey but if it went like that on draft day there'd be some very happy people at Tigerland.
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I sure can wish :pray
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Like I said the players I mentioned are top 10ers IMO, but there is the outside probability that they drop to our picks, unlikely though. Firstly Lachie suffered a major long-term injury which may prevent him from playing at the champs or seriously hinder him (a la Sellar last).
There is also a heap of talent that may be selected before him.
Vezpremi and Grimes are up there. Motlop is a freak. Sheedy will not be able to resist Rioli (or motlop for that matter), another Selwood will get plenty of attention. Ebert and Masten are highly rated non-Vics. Morton and Meyers are modern-day athletes who will get attention. Not to mention McNamara, Prismall, Bellchambers and Grant.
So here's hoping that my wish list comes true :thumbsup
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what Mojo thinks of Kreuzer
I can understand what you are saying.
But this ruck/forward "comparison' is not quite right.
Kreuzer is a legitimiate ruck. He is 199cms and 91kgs and of course still growing. He plays as a ruckman in the TAC and did so in the U18 Champs up against McEvoy (very good) and Leuenberger (elite) last year.
He CAN if needed play forward. He takes contested marks and will kick goals and is an elite user of the ball for a big man. He is also physical and very mobile.
BUT
His primary position is a ruck and he shows that in his junior football. Of course his team sometimes plays him at CHF or FF to pinch agoal or 2.
But he has 120 hitouts this year in 4 games (30 a game) and gives a pretty decent indication of where he is being played in the TAC.
He is not some 195cm half and half CHF/ruck. He is much taller and already lean and well built (for a kid) and has legitimate ruck skills and plays that position better than he does as a forward.
He had 41 hit oits on the weekend. 7 marks (4 contested) , 6 tackles, 19 possessions, 1 goal and was clearly best on ground from where I was standing.
A woird of warning for anyone looking at the best players named for the TAC. Sometimes it is not who was actually the best player on the day and coaches play ducks and drakes a bit. Trying to push up a kid into representative football and so forth. At least the stats are close to the mark (although I had a couple different for Kreuzer than the TAC site). Much better than when Xavier Ellis had all of his point kickins counted for his personal stats one day.
From memory he had 35 kicks but it was actually 15 when you deducted them.
Suffice to say Kreuzer will ruck in the AFL. He might "rest' forward. He might play deep forward for a quater or 2. He might even play down back at times while he is learning. But 3 years after he is drafted I expect him to be playing ruck for 70 to 80 minutes a game week in week out and competing well.
He is a ruck who can play forward at a pinch. You are not getting Jon Brown. You are getting Luke Darcy who early in his career (and making a good fist of it this year) was able to play as a tall forward for a while. But Kreuzer is taller but has the same sort of smarts, presence, skills and clean marking of a Luke Dracy. But the game is different now. The Dogs crying out for a tall forward and having great skills and run can play a Darcy forward but they surround him with smaller quick players to stop the rebound when the ball hits the ground.
Kreuzer sneaking forward from the ruck would be dangerous. Kreuzer playing full time forward I am not so sure would be anywhere near as effective.
Its the Nick Riewoldt types teams have trouble with. The Kossy types who are a little taller and bigger and not as quick and explosive and cant run all day and recover on the ground. They are just not as dangerous.
Its a Jon Brown who is huge but can run all day and is pretty agile and recovers quickly.
I am not just meaning the injuries to Kossy. I mean in general. The slower and more powerful talls are slowly becoming redundant. Kossy is very talented when fit but apart from a few games has just not shown he can dominate to the extent Riewoldt can.
Now without opening up a can of worms look at another tall who has great speed and reach and leap and agility. Lance Franklin. Compare him to a heavier and more physical kid like Roughead. Who is much slower and less athletic.
Even coimpare a Pat Ryder who is a graceful mover and compare him to Carltons Josh Kennedy. Kennedy is much bigger built and more powerful. But is not as agile and does not move as well. One is flourishing and 1 is not.
The 'trend" is for the more explosive talls to go much earlier. Even if they are toothpicks.
Ben Reid and Everitt go well before the bigger Mackenzie.
That does not mean a power tall wont make it. But the game is going towards players who can get off there man and take uncontested marks and out reach a flanker every once in a while. But the aim is to out run and keep them honest by being able to take a contested mark or 2. But its not so much about power. Its about front position and leading multiple times. Zig zag leads and doubling back and blocks off the ball and swinging around quickly to kick or give off.
Its about being 1m quicker over 20m and clearing space out and making it a footrace from a standing start on the lead out of the square. But being tall enough to stop a 6 foot 1 midfielder from being able to man mark you and take away your pace advantage
Its not about being 6 foot 5 and 105kgs anymore and being able to bench press 160kgs and putting up the white flag when the ball hits the ground. If you are going to be that size then be able to run a 15 beep which Brown and Hall and Tredrea (when fit) and Pav are all able to do.
http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=26632.0 (http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=26632.0)
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my own preliminary top 20
1) Kreuzer
2) Cotchin
3) Masten
4) Ebert
5) Grimes
6) Motlop
7) McEvoy
8) Bellchambers
9) Henderson
10) Morton
11) Myer
12) Grant
13) Veszpremi
14) Collier
15) Selwood
16) Rioli
17) Mulligan
18) Maric
19) Gaertner
20) Prismall
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tried to make McEvoy and Henderson slip but couldn't :'(
As a result had to put Kreuzer number 1 (we need a ruckman) even though I prefer Cotchin
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Kreuzer - Ruckman/fwd. Extremely mobile and athletic. awesome talent
Cotchin - Hard, classy inside midfielder. Also has damaging finishing skills
Masten - Classy ball winner similar to Cotchin, except skills not as good
Ebert - Ball magnet with great skills (cousin of Brad I think)
Grimes - Workhorse and ball magnet who doesn't stop running
Motlop - Freaky talent, superb skills, can turn a match in a few minutes
McEvoy - 2nd best ruck on offer. Offers great versatility, athleticism and skills
Bellchambers - Man mountain. Big, athletic, can ruck but also take a strong mark
Henderson - Big, athletic, strong mark and aggressive. Also great kicking skills
Morton - Tall, athletic but classy utility. Brother of Jarryd and Mitch
Myer - a la Morton except not brother of Jarryd and Mitch ;D
Grant - Tall, versatile and dashing player. On song is extremely dangerous
Veszpremi - Big unit, hard and aggressive, wins his own ball and damaging long kick
Collier - unlucky not to go last, tall running defender in the Birchall mould
Selwood - tough customer not to dissimilar to his brother adam
Rioli - dangerous small forward with excellent skills (sheedy won't pass on him ;) )
Mulligan - Freak athlete for his size, thumping kick could be anything
Maric - Classy fwd/midfielder. Good skills and strong mark
Gaertner - Freak athlete, played mainly in defence, could be anything but kicking is 50-50
Prismall - So much potential, not enough desire, should push top 20 if he puts in the effort
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My big hope is that we see a midfielder, a ruckman and a KPP with our first 3 picks. I will be very disappointed if we see another mid-sized flanker type taken, we have enough of those and they are more the cream on top. We need to build the core of the side first before we worry about them. Similarly if we spend an early pick on a small forward type I would be gutted.
Pretty safe to say it won't be a KPP with pick 1, so it will be very interesting to see if there's anything there worth taking with our second or third pick.
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My big hope is that we see a midfielder, a ruckman and a KPP with our first 3 picks. I will be very disappointed if we see another mid-sized flanker type taken, we have enough of those and they are more the cream on top. We need to build the core of the side first before we worry about them. Similarly if we spend an early pick on a small forward type I would be gutted.
Pretty safe to say it won't be a KPP with pick 1, so it will be very interesting to see if there's anything there worth taking with our second or third pick.
Mulligan and Gaertner are 2 options. Mulligan more of a ruck though. Both could become anything but would need serious work. Mulligan more on his positioning and overall footy smarts. Gaertner seriously needs to work on his kicking, extremely hit and miss.
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Mulligan and Gaertner are 2 options. Mulligan more of a ruck though. Both could become anything but would need serious work. Mulligan more on his positioning and overall footy smarts. Gaertner seriously needs to work on his kicking, extremely hit and miss.
Have read some good things about Mulligan, good skills but very raw as a footballer. Not sure we can afford to use 2 of our first 3 picks on ruckmen though.
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Mulligan and Gaertner are 2 options. Mulligan more of a ruck though. Both could become anything but would need serious work. Mulligan more on his positioning and overall footy smarts. Gaertner seriously needs to work on his kicking, extremely hit and miss.
Have read some good things about Mulligan, good skills but very raw as a footballer. Not sure we can afford to use 2 of our first 3 picks on ruckmen though.
Mulligan looks an excellent prospect. Not worth top 20, probably won't last through to our 3rd rounder though
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Have you seen much of Selwood so far? Hard to get a handle on him to date, some very mixed opinions on him reading other boards. One guy who's opinion I value and watches a lot of TAC games through the year reckons he would be a great get for us and could be a real centre square ball winner for us who loves the physical side of things.
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haven't seen a great deal, just 2 matches against the Ranges and Oakleigh. Looks the goods and comes with the Selwood surname so that is pretty good
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Win tonight and we slip down to pick 3 on current standings behind the Dees and Blues = neither Kreuzer nor Cotchin :-\.
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Win tonight and we slip down to pick 3 on current standings behind the Dees and Blues = neither Kreuzer nor Cotchin :-\.
Even in victory we will still find a way to lose lol...HAHAHAHA.
thats whats wrong with us, we dont do what needs to be done to be successful. After the 2004 national draft we needed to stay at the bottom for the next 2 years and now we would have been laughing but NUP we wanted this so called winning culture. Well lets get fair dinkum...you cant turn poo into gold. thats how it is. Instead of getting quality youngsters we got trapped mid table again...end of story and now we are on the bottom again going no where fast. And for this so called winning culture we may end up winning 3 or 4 more games costing us a priority pick and falling down the draft order.
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Win tonight and we slip down to pick 3 on current standings behind the Dees and Blues = neither Kreuzer nor Cotchin :-\.
Even in victory we will still find a way to lose lol...HAHAHAHA.
thats whats wrong with us, we dont do what needs to be done to be successful. After the 2004 national draft we needed to stay at the bottom for the next 2 years and now we would have been laughing but NUP we wanted this so called winning culture. Well lets get fair dinkum...you cant turn poohe into gold. thats how it is. Instead of getting quality youngsters we got trapped mid table again...end of story and now we are on the bottom again going no where fast. And for this so called winning culture we may end up winning 3 or 4 more games costing us a priority pick and falling down the draft order.
The problem in 2005 was we didn't have the political and financical stability to tank after all the hoo-ha of 2004. You can just imagine all the off-field idiots calling for blood and sooking over that election result if we were 2-10 in 2005.
Given we have that stability now there are no excuses. Any player carrying an injury should be put in cotton wool. The players won't stop trying their best as we've seen all year given how many close games we've lost but the coach and selectors can manipulate the selected side and experiment with positions on the field for the benefit 2008 and beyond. We can afford 2 more wins and keep our PP. You don't throw away a chance to get 3 picks in the top 20 when the year is lost anyway. Stupidity of the highest order if we do. The system penalises sides who finish midtable as the RFC knows all too well.
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Melbourne play Carlton next week- itll be interesting to see who wants to do the right thing by the game...and win the game.
Carlton then host Melbourne in R22. The draw is working for us.
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We still need Carlton to win or draw one more. After their two pumpings in a row they don't even look like winning another game for the year :-\.
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The players won't stop trying their best as we've seen all year given how many close games we've lost but the coach and selectors can manipulate the selected side and experiment with positions on the field for the benefit 2008 and beyond.
Well done Terry :whistle ;)
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Melbourne play Carlton next week- itll be interesting to see who wants to do the right thing by the game...and win the game.
Carlton then host Melbourne in R22. The draw is working for us.
Too bad we don't play Carlton twice to give them a 5th win though if Carlton and Melbourne share the two games they play that will definentely be enough.
If we win 1 more game for the year let it be against Port at the g. Will be Richo's 250th. Hopefully we treat it as our Grand Final.
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The media like comparing us with the Hawks. Well they have said they are going after "recycled" players this year.
Hawks willing to trade for experienced players
Lyall Johnson | July 1, 2007
AFTER a two-year break from bringing experienced players into the club via the national draft, Hawthorn is this year prepared to trade away draft picks to top up its list.
"Now that we have rectified the TPP (total player payments) position and we believe we've got the foundation of a strong culture emerging, we think we can start to introduce players from outside the club again," Pelchen said.
Full article at: http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/hawks-willing-to-trade-for-experienced-players/2007/06/30/1182624235849.html
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Draft gems harder to find this year
06 July 2007 Herald Sun
Rebecca Williams
LESS depth than last year, some quality talls at the top and creativity required with later picks.
Those are some of the impressions of this year's batch of draft hopefuls from AFL recruiters as the under-18 national championships hit town.
While last year's crop was widely regarded as the best since the famous 2001 Hodge-Ball-Judd draft, recruiters are not making the same comparisons this year.
A hallmark of last year's draft was its depth, but club scouts are not convinced the talent vein runs as deep in 2007.
Despite these predictions, there are still plenty of plaudits for the kids at the top.
At the moment, most of the hype has surrounded athletic Northern Knights tall Matthew Kreuzer as the likely No. 1 selection, while his teammate, midfielder Trent Cotchin, also has big wraps.
Collingwood recruiting manager Derek Hine rated the standouts as the "big talls at the front", but said the overall depth didn't match 2006.
"Last year's draft ran pretty deep," Hine said.
"I wouldn't have thought at this point in time that it (this year's group) has the depth of last year's draft. But I think everyone will find a player."
Western Bulldogs recruiting manager Scott Clayton agreed the depth was not as strong as last year, but said there would still be rewards late in the draft if clubs were prepared to take a gamble.
"It's probably not (as deep as last year), but it's early days," Clayton said.
"From a quick look, there is probably not the numbers there, but you are going to have to be a bit more creative and look a bit closer."
Geelong recruiting manager Stephen Wells predicted the draft would be very even after the top group, forcing clubs to do their homework for their late picks.
"There will be some outstanding players right at the very top and a good, even bunch after that," he said.
"We'll need to do a lot of work to sort them out."
There were concerns after last year's draft about the strength of the talent pool coming from the AFL's heartland in Victoria.
Only two Vic Metro players - Andrejs Everitt (Western Bulldogs) and Chris Dawes (Collingwood) - featured in the opening two rounds of last year's national draft.
After Vic Metro and Vic Country were well beaten in the opening round of the championships at Subiaco and AAMI Stadium last week, questions have again been raised about the depth in this state.
"It was a surprise that WA beat Vic Metro so easily and the fact that SA beat Vic Country comfortably," one local recruiter said.
"The fact that both Victorian sides lost quite comfortably in the first round of the under-18 national championships is a rare occurrence.
"I think that indicated that maybe the depth in Victoria this year is not as strong as perhaps we hoped it would be.
"But that can all turn around. It's early days."
So, who are the top players bottom clubs Richmond, Melbourne and Carlton will be keeping a keen eye on during the championships?
The name on everyone's lips, the 199cm and 91kg Kreuzer is capable of playing ruck or key forward, but boasts the speed and agility of an onballer.
Cotchin is considered the all-round package as a midfielder with speed, great skills and strong overhead.
South Australian captain Brad Ebert, the nephew of SA champion Russell, is another highly rated and versatile midfielder.
West Australian midfielder Rhys Palmer enhanced his prospects last week with five goals in his team's win against Vic Metro.
Geelong tall Lachlan Henderson is also highly ranked, despite injury ruining his prospects at this year's national championships.
Cats recruiting manager Stephen Wells said Henderson's bad luck was unlikely to harm his draft prospects, with clubs looking to the future.
"Ideally you see the players play as much as you possibly can, but when they are injured you just take that into account and refer back to what we know about them," Wells said.
"When you are making those decisions, you still just make a decision based on the long-term and not the short-term."
For the first time this year, the under-18 titles have been played over several weeks and in different states.
Clayton said it was a move that would make the recruiters' jobs easier.
"We're going to get to see them adapt to different circumstances than we have in the past," he said.
"I think it's going to make it easier. It's good to see people in different circumstances."
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,22025227%255E19897,00.html
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apparently Kreuzer and Cotchin are playing very well today.
Also hear that Palmer carved it up again
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apparently Kreuzer and Cotchin are playing very well today.
Also hear that Palmer carved it up again
if we get kruezer and palmer i will blow my load!
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Getting Palmer and Kreuzer would be realistic IMO. At this stage he is a top 20 pick. So in the 2nd rd or a potential PP we could get him.
Not sure if he is the type of midfielder we need though. Appears to be more a runner and finisher rather than a consistent contested ball winner a la foley
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also would like to see Palmer tagged as to date has pretty much been given a free run.
If he can handle a tag, then I am all for getting him.
Kicking would need to be polised though. Some of it didnt look particularly flash
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Too bad we don't play Carlton twice to give them a 5th win...
Could just imagine it if we did.
Carlton 0.35.35
Richmond 0.33.33
Goal scorers - all rushed behinds :lol
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IMHO we shouldnt be chasing players like Palmer, we should be looking at Rance and Myers and afew others around the 15 to 20 draft pick range.
We shouldnt be picking after the 3rd round. Theres no point unless they decide to take a kid from coburg in r4 like Anderson.
Kreuzer and Morton are the only 2 options for us now at pick 1- Cotchin and Palmer shouldnt be chosen here
Rance, Myers, Otten and Selwood are likely picks around 10 to 20. If Henderson drops or we get a pick around 8 or 9 then maybe we are a show.
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After seeing the game today I agree Kreuzer and Morton will be top 2. Cotchin will be top 5 and will make it as an AFL player but we would be getting just more of the same type we already have if we drafted him.
also would like to see Palmer tagged as to date has pretty much been given a free run.
If he can handle a tag, then I am all for getting him.
Kicking would need to be polised though. Some of it didnt look particularly flash
If their kicking needs polishing then you don't draft them with early picks IMO. This is the main reason why I can't believe JON was ever considered a first round pick. Foot skills and decision making under pressure should be the numero uno requirement when judging these kids. At AFL level the pressure goes up hundred-fold and any significant technical flaws are exposed big time.
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Too bad we don't play Carlton twice to give them a 5th win...
Could just imagine it if we did.
Carlton 0.35.35
Richmond 0.33.33
Goal scorers - all rushed behinds :lol
:rollin
Shame would've been could match of the round :lol
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have to disagree with Morton going top 2. Certainly has had an awesome champs but players are not solely judged on this. Morton has apparently been doing well in the WAFL but not tearing it up so I anticipate him going top 10 with a strong push for the top 5
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have to disagree with Morton going top 2. Certainly has had an awesome champs but players are not solely judged on this. Morton has apparently been doing well in the WAFL but not tearing it up so I anticipate him going top 10 with a strong push for the top 5
That's true bluey that recruiters base their judgement more on club form. Morton has played only 3 WAFL Colts game for Claremont yet had 25 kicks and 10 marks on debut followed by 20 kicks and 11 marks the following week back and is gunning it against more experienced peers at the Champs. Not sure why he has played so little WA Colts footy as i can't find his name mentioned at a higher level in the WAFL.
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With Morton I just have a question mark over what position suits him best. Although he has the height for KPP not to sure that is his cup of tea a la Birchall. And in the end will probably have to do with the role Birchall has that is as a utility plugging holes where needed
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Here's Craig Cameron's view of the draft (who could be at Tigerland come season's end ....):
Melbourne recruiting manager Craig Cameron ... said the biggest talking point to come out this year's titles was the dominance of WA's midfield.
"I think there is a lack of midfielders outside of WA," Cameron said.
"There's a fair number of talls but I'm not sure there is a lot of pace across the teams."
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,22059292%255E19742,00.html
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Mixed messages here as apparently Woodhouse the Eagles' recruiter is claimed (on BF :-\ ) to have said a week or so ago the only quality midfielder is Cotchin (although no quote has been found of him saying this) ??
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Mixed messages here as apparently Woodhouse the Eagles' recruiter is claimed (on BF :-\ ) to have said a week or so ago the only quality midfielder is Cotchin (although no quote has been found of him saying this) ??
cotchin was shocking over teh carnival. gave himself no favours and is over rated, kruezer is the obnly vic really worth anything
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the tags placed on Cotchin cannot be ignored X.
Sure he didn't get much of the ball, but when he did get it he used it pretty well
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Miller said the usual thing today on SEN - we'd be going for best available in the draft and not a particular position. So if we end up with first pick then that'd mean Kreuzer.
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Kreuzer & Naitanui would certainly make a challenging rucking duo.
One around the ground workhorse
One plain freak
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Kreuzer & Natanui would put us in an unbelievable position for the future.
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saw some footage of naitanui in the ruck, and f**cking hell he has one enormous leap.
See my avatar, absolutely flies :bow
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I see Natanui as a key forward who will take a turn in the ruck...
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I see Natanui as a key forward who will take a turn in the ruck...
maybe, perhaps in the N Riewoldt/Buddy Franklin mould
put there is potential in the ruck. With his freakish leap and burst speed who could take the around the ground ruckman type to a whole new level.
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interestingly, Naitanui was born in NSW, imagine if he stayed there, clubs would be throwing all sorts of money at him to get him to sign with them in the NSW-scholarship program
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We had no real interest in the NSW scholarship system apparently when the AFL made it compulsory so we would've missed out on Naitanui anyway.
That leap in Bluey's avatar is freakish. He'll be a human highlight reel that's for sure.
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Just on ruckmen. If we could get say a Wood or a Charman in the psd- do we need to draft one? Id suggest that unless it was Kreuzer, we wouldnt actually have to draft one if we got a Wood or a Charman.
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If we did get Wood in the PSD :pray
I still reckon we need a ruckman in the draft. Kreuzer, McEvoy, Sullivan and maybe Putt late are who we should be looking at
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Wood would be good.
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Unless someone decent walks at the end of the year the PSD could be another disappointment. To get another ruckman we'll most likely have to trade for one.
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Just read on some other sites that Greg Miller today at the club luncheon said theres only 5 or 6 players in this draft. According to the info it was inferred we would only draft till r3 and that its likely we will trade our 2nd round pick- which to me suggests they have a ruckman. Sources on the sites saying that the club is trying to bring down expectations on Kreuzer because we will be selecting Morton or Cotchin and taking 1 player in the psd.
Cant say I disagree with the strategy, I said from the outset that this draft only had 3 rounds max in it. But the supporters are looking for blood. So going by that...
So - R1, PP, R2, R3. PSD1 = 5 delistings. Richmond supporters are going to go mental if they only sack 5 players. Maybe theyll get more picks for trading players...but if the reports are true and we only bring in 5 or 6 players via the drafts or trade then its disappointing.
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5 delistings ::)
have gone mental already , lol
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im supportive of positive mental health jacko. i urge people to stay under control and to understand- its just a game lol. ;D
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And we thought Spud was bad, Wallace is bringing a new meaning to it all :banghead
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Hello all,
I haven't posted in a while but I have been reading.
Just on Wood I watched him this morning playing for the Suncoast Lions before the Bris Blues game.
I'm not sure about drafting Wood was not setting the world on fire, is he any better than Pattison? or Graham?
I haven't seen much of Angus but reports were good on his recent games for Coburg and he is improving.
In saying that Wood may be just about to come on. Right age right size.
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Patrick McGinnity - any interest.
Looks like a Dean Polo type workman. Can tag (won AA as a tagger), solid skills, good size and shows some footy smarts. Possible 2nd, 3rd pick
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If there is a god then Richmond will have Kreuzer and Rance in late November, although I could probably cop Morton/Cotchin at 1 and Rance lol.
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The AFL want to phase out priority picks so we better make the most of them.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/priority-picks-face-drafting-out-when-all-have-come-through-system/2007/07/26/1185339168869.html
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If there is a god then Richmond will have Kreuzer and Rance in late November, although I could probably cop Morton/Cotchin at 1 and Rance lol.
Rance, Henderson, McEvoy
Anyone of these with our 2nd pick would be awesome
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A couple of the people I talk to while watching training quizzed Plough on Wednesday over Miller's stupid comment in the Herald-Sun about not needing or going for talls. Terry replied "Did he say that?" playing dumb as most coaches do and keeping his cards close to his chest saying it's impossible at this stage to say who is available at whatever pick and what type of player we will get. Only thing he can say is we'll go for the best available. The bloke I know who I've mentioned before makes Jack sound optimistic lol told Plough we won't get Kruezer as Carlton won't win another game so we will go for Cotchin then? Terry once again said it's too early to say who we'll pick up but there's 6-8 players to choose from around that mark. Make of all that what you will.
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Jackstar - you have a problem. Bet you were a TW fan last year.
You haven't followed the tiges quite as long as me but you would have seen bad tiger sides in the late 80's & early 90's. This side is a class above. We just could not afford the injuries to our bigger bodied & experienced players that we had this year. Add a fully fit Simmo & Browny to the whole year & several more wins would have occurred. Progress is good & whilst the win tally is dissappointing the benefit of the early draft picks is the reward. We have learnt in the past finishing 9th have done us no good. May as well be down the bottom due to injuries, average umpiring decisions etc whilst we are developing the younger players. We have been in most games this year well into the last quarters.
Keep the faith & please don't mention the F word again. I still have nightmares about Spud the Dud! Remember we got him because no one else wanted to coach us cos up till then we bagged them & sacked them as if they were spuds.
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On 3aw tonight, Russell and Carey thought the youngest Selwood would last to around pick 15-17. I can't see that myself but would be pleased to get him at 17 if he lasted to then and we had that pick.