One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Big Bloke on December 14, 2014, 04:13:27 PM
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I am confident we have a finals team but there's something inside me that says we're not good enough (both in a playing and coaching capacity) to win a premiership.
What do you think? Got that same doubt?
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i think we can
the core if there
lids
martin
cotchin
rance
riewoldt
vlastuin
miles
etc.
just need a new coach and to tweak things up a bit
would still like a couple big fish ala nicnat/cameron for a final top up/push
ive always felt its gotta be done before lids hangs up the boots personally ...
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I don't think we can do it with;
Batch
Edwards
Grigg
Newman
Chaplin
Dea
and dare I say it perhaps even Hardwick, but who knows.
Add;
Dangerfield
Sheil
Cameron
and maybe Bomber or Woosha....who knows
With the likes of Ellis, Lennon and a few of our recruits coming along, we could do it.
Maybe
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not a chance
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not a chance
This
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Slim to none.
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The nature of this question itself suggests the club is poor.
Would it be too much to ask the club to win 2-3 grand finals in the next few years?
Yes it would......yet that's what great teams do
Sadly we all deep down know this isn't going to happen.
LMAOFFS. Our crew are just wishing for ONE flag so they can die with some semblance
of happiness.
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I think not due to the expansion clubs compromising the drafts when we had early picks.
I fear we will be the bulldogs and saints of the past ten years, close but not close enough.
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not a chance
Why? Norf are poot. Hawks old. Expansion clubs not yet in final form etc.
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not a chance
Why? Norf are poot. Hawks old. Expansion clubs not yet in final form etc.
Regardless.
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given the talent of the top-end of the list; any coach would struggle to do awful at richmond.
imagine if you had a roos or hinkley
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More like how many :clapping
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More like how many :clapping
LOL, of course
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hard to say - in 2007, 2008 most people were saying the pies were no where near a premiership side, good honest team without any stars, good enough to finish 5-8 but not good enough for the big dance. They made the finals several yrs in a row and morphed into a very solid unit and funnily enough some stars were discovered/came to the fore.
You have to learn to crawl before you walk - if we can make finals again this season we are definitely building towards it and as our club becomes battle hardened, who knows where it will lead?
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not a chance
Why? Norf are poot. Hawks old. Expansion clubs not yet in final form etc.
Because culture
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I really think we are heading in the right direction. Just need a bit of luck with these new recruits and a couple of others to come on and become really good players for us. Our core is as good as any.
We need guys like Grigg, Houli and Batch to be replaced with better more reliable kids.
Players like Griffiths, Elton, Vickory, McBean and McKensie need to stand up and give us another REAL avenue to goal. Our forwardline needs real work and our game plan getting it in there needs work too.
Is DH good enough to take us all the way, not sure, don't think so but like some players he is getting better the more he is in the roll. Hopefully he learns from this year and plans around our strengths and not try and reinvent the wheel. We have some real stars that just need to be played in the right positions. I think DH needs a big year though, scraping into a final and getting killed probably won't be enough. Although I am suspect on if the club has the balls to move him on.
Need some early wins next year to get some confidence and hopefully the rest will take care of itself. Get into top 4 and be in form at the right time and anything can happen.
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Not elite enough off field for mine.
Starting with Hardwick and his assistants, the fitness and conditioning staff and the recruiting and development staff put us too far behind the best before we start.
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Imo we need:
1 proper power forward (?McKenzie)
1 proper forward/ruck (?Griffiths/Vickery)
1 proper ruckman (because I think Maric will break down)
3 more quality mids (including a gun free agent asap)
1-2 more quality rebounding HBF's (similar to Birchall)
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Need a couple of boys to click at the same time and by my oath we can.
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Need lithium
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And a partridge in a stuffn pear tree.
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Cart before the horse....real question should be can we win a final.
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Cart before the horse....real question should be can we win a final.
Which is precisely why at this point we can't win a GF. We poo our pants in any old final. :banghead
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hard to say - in 2007, 2008 most people were saying the pies were no where near a premiership side, good honest team without any stars, good enough to finish 5-8 but not good enough for the big dance. They made the finals several yrs in a row and morphed into a very solid unit and funnily enough some stars were discovered/came to the fore.
You have to learn to crawl before you walk - if we can make finals again this season we are definitely building towards it and as our club becomes battle hardened, who knows where it will lead?
Astute post
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Imo we need:
1 proper power forward (?McKenzie)
1 proper forward/ruck (?Griffiths/Vickery)
1 proper ruckman (because I think Maric will break down)
The thing is ; the chances are at least one of Griffiths, McBean, McKenzie, Vickery will come good ... so rfc should be right in that regards maybe - Maric having a good run with the football injury gods is vital of course.
3 more quality mids (including a gun free agent asap)
1-2 more quality rebounding HBF's (similar to Birchall)
there are only 18 spots in the side / and 3 rotations
many of that 18/21 is for KPP
7-8? or so. so that leaves 10 'runners' or a dozen
Deledio - top shelf
Cotchin - top shelf
Miles - top shelf
SEdwards - top shelf
...
Vlastuin
Ellis'
Conca
Fyfe
Martin
etc
...
its like reak madrid - you can have billions of dollars of players on the list but you can only put 11 on the park so at the end of the day ;)
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SEdwards - top shelf
(http://fat.gfycat.com/MixedGleamingBlackfly.gif)
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;)
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Imo we need:
1 proper power forward (?McKenzie)
1 proper forward/ruck (?Griffiths/Vickery)
1 proper ruckman (because I think Maric will break down)
The thing is ; the chances are at least one of Griffiths, McBean, McKenzie, Vickery will come good ... so rfc should be right in that regards maybe - Maric having a good run with the football injury gods is vital of course.
3 more quality mids (including a gun free agent asap)
1-2 more quality rebounding HBF's (similar to Birchall)
there are only 18 spots in the side / and 3 rotations
many of that 18/21 is for KPP
7-8? or so. so that leaves 10 'runners' or a dozen
Deledio - top shelf
Cotchin - top shelf
Miles - top shelf
SEdwards - top shelf
...
Vlastuin
Ellis'
Conca
Fyfe
Martin
etc
...
its like reak madrid - you can have billions of dollars of players on the list but you can only put 11 on the park so at the end of the day ;)
For me you need 6 KPP's.
1 lean forward - Jack Riewoldt
1 power forward - ? McKenzie
1 forward/ruck relief - ? Griffiths/Vickery
3 key defenders, at least one with a big body - Rance, Astbury, Chaplin
Then you have another 3 medium/small fowards (?Lennon, ?Gordon, ?Lloyd, otherwise rotating midfielders IE Lids/Martin), another 3 medium/small defenders/rebounders (Morris, Houli, Grimes).
That gives you 12 blokes.
1 ruckman - Maric.
Last 9 players need to be midfielders/wingmen
1. Cotchin - A grade
2. Deledio - A grade
3. Martin - A grade
4. Ellis - B grade (could become A grade)
5. Vlastuin - C/B grade (needs to improve on a poor 2014 but I have faith in this bloke)
6. S Edwards - B grade (very handy player, excellent hands and some great tricks up his sleeve)
7. Miles - B grade (great pickup, but a shame we're turning to an 80kg kid to be the inside wrecking ball)
8. Foley - C/B grade (must improve or cut)
9. Conca - C/B grade (must improve or cut)
The definite upgrades here for me are Foley and Conca, unless they can play out of their skin next year.
You can cut Gordon, maybe cut Lloyd although I think he has upside to come, Lennon too early to decide. But if none of those 3 make it I'd honestly consider leaving at least 2 of Cotchin/Deledio/Martin in the F50 as mid/small forwards. This is why we need more mids!!
If blokes like Lambert come through that's great, otherwise I want a gun like Shiel or even Dangerfield.
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Cart before the horse....real question should be can we win a final.
Which is precisely why at this point we can't win a GF. We poo our pants in any old final. :banghead
lol we poo our pants in any important game yet alone finals.
in a list of 44 we need about a third 12 - 15 players to be elite A grade or very good B grade.and they need to be proven none of this potential b/s.
the only current players who fit the bill are.
Deledio, Cotchin, Maric, Martin, Miles, Rance. lose any two or three of the 6 and the seasons over as happened this yr.
some who show signs vlastuin,b ellis i put him here to save arguments, and theres hope lennon and c ellis can get there. every other player is C grade, a battler, or juniors who we just dont know.
we dont have a v/good 2nd kpf. we dont have a v/good 2nd kpd, we have just one decent ruckman and hes near 30. we lack inside mids with basically all the work load on just cotchin and miles.
we have soft weak pricks in abundance we lack one quality sml/med fwd who is not needed in the midfield. we have panic merchants and poor kicks in the back half and they are regularsgetting games because there is so few coming thru from below forcing them out.
lol a premiership in 2 yrs. oh to be so naieve, we will do very well just to stay in the 8 over the next few seasonshat will only happen if we get our fair share of kids developing and forcing the hacks out.
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For me you need 6 KPP's.
1 lean forward - Jack Riewoldt
1 power forward - ? McKenzie
1 forward/ruck relief - ? Griffiths/Vickery
3 key defenders, at least one with a big body - Rance, Astbury, Chaplin
Then you have another 3 medium/small fowards (?Lennon, ?Gordon, ?Lloyd, otherwise rotating midfielders IE Lids/Martin), another 3 medium/small defenders/rebounders (Morris, Houli, Grimes).
That gives you 12 blokes.
1 ruckman - Maric.
Last 9 players need to be midfielders/wingmen
1. Cotchin - A grade
2. Deledio - A grade
3. Martin - A grade
4. Ellis - B grade (could become A grade)
5. Vlastuin - C/B grade (needs to improve on a poor 2014 but I have faith in this bloke)
6. S Edwards - B grade (very handy player, excellent hands and some great tricks up his sleeve)
7. Miles - B grade (great pickup, but a shame we're turning to an 80kg kid to be the inside wrecking ball)
8. Foley - C/B grade (must improve or cut)
9. Conca - C/B grade (must improve or cut)
The definite upgrades here for me are Foley and Conca, unless they can play out of their skin next year.
You can cut Gordon, maybe cut Lloyd although I think he has upside to come, Lennon too early to decide. But if none of those 3 make it I'd honestly consider leaving at least 2 of Cotchin/Deledio/Martin in the F50 as mid/small forwards. This is why we need more mids!!
If blokes like Lambert come through that's great, otherwise I want a gun like Shiel or even Dangerfield.
now do the simple exercise of mirroring what you think is needed positionally in the ones in the twos. to get list numbers needed rather than just a best 22. ie those 6 kpps become 12.
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Cart before the horse....real question should be can we win a final.
Which is precisely why at this point we can't win a GF. We poo our pants in any old final. :banghead
lol we poo our pants in any important game yet alone finals.
in a list of 44 we need about a third 12 - 15 players to be elite A grade or very good B grade.and they need to be proven none of this potential b/s.
the only current players who fit the bill are.
Deledio, Cotchin, Maric, Martin, Miles, Rance. lose any two or three of the 6 and the seasons over as happened this yr.
some who show signs vlastuin,b ellis i put him here to save arguments, and theres hope lennon and c ellis can get there. every other player is C grade, a battler, or juniors who we just dont know.
we dont have a v/good 2nd kpf. we dont have a v/good 2nd kpd, we have just one decent ruckman and hes near 30. we lack inside mids with basically all the work load on just cotchin and miles.
we have soft weak pricks in abundance we lack one quality sml/med fwd who is not needed in the midfield. we have panic merchants and poor kicks in the back half and they are regularsgetting games because there is so few coming thru from below forcing them out.
lol a premiership in 2 yrs. oh to be so naieve, we will do very well just to stay in the 8 over the next few seasonshat will only happen if we get our fair share of kids developing and forcing the hacks out.
We at least won a few Friday and Saturday night games that were broadcast on free to air this year. Used to mark them down as a loss before the opening bounce.
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One small issue being overlooked.
The last 10 premiers have played with a distinct game style created by the coach, something that has been innovative and different from others. (Scott and Longmire just carried the torch on to some degree).
Does anyone think Hardwick has the tactical capacity to come up with a style that will open up the competition?
If Mark Thompson takes over next year I'd say this answer is a yes. Right now, no chance.
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One small issue being overlooked.
The last 10 premiers have played with a distinct game style created by the coach, something that has been innovative and different from others. (Scott and Longmire just carried the torch on to some degree).
Does anyone think Hardwick has the tactical capacity to come up with a style that will open up the competition?
If Mark Thompson takes over next year I'd say this answer is a yes. Right now, no chance.
great post probably one of the smartest i have read on hardwick.
I couldnt agree more. He seems like a follower not a leader.
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2020 -The year of the Tiger ....... Maybe.
Maybe they could buy one
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No chance of winning anything this organisation
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ive always felt its gotta be done before lids hangs up the boots personally ...
I'm with this sentiment also. I think now that we have a core that the younger players can learn of it's not unforeseeable that RFC wins one in in the next few years. However I think to get the ball rolling we need this success to happen before Deledio retires not too dissimilar to Hawthorn winning a flag before Crawf retired.
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be interested to know peoples thoughts on this now the seasons started. how close do people think we really are.
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be interested to know peoples thoughts on this now the seasons started. how close do people think we really are.
Always thought we were far away. I was hoping that some of our additions would help us get to around 6th or even 4th if everything went perfectly (no injuries). Still too early to call though if we will make the eight. We are nowhere near winning a flag though. Still 2-3 good drafts away from that IMVHO.
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be interested to know peoples thoughts on this now the seasons started. how close do people think we really are.
- We have a reasonable core top 10 players
- Our bottom 12 players aren't strong enough and I thinks that is thanks to the FJ regime
- Our selection panel choices leaves me stunned at times
- There is something wrong with our culture
- Often our players seem lack lustre and disinterested
- We do not seem to have enough speed
- We make the same mistakes over and over again, ie kicking sideways and backwards letting the opposition flood our forward line
- I don't think our players understand front and square playing methodology
- We continually send the ball into our forward 50 into the side pockets, while often players are standing alone in better positions
- When we kick the ball in we have our 2 talls standing next to each other
- We persevere in kicking the ball to our disadvantage 3 on one scenarios
- Our coach doesn't seem to be able to adapt to changes during a game
- We do not get game time into our youngsters who probably get disillusioned playing in the VFL while Newman, Grigg and Houli or whoever) get games every week
Apart from that we are doing really well!?!?!? :whistle
Our season has started as per usual, we have no chance of winning a flag until all the above points have been addressed
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We won't win one with this current group or coach.
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be interested to know peoples thoughts on this now the seasons started. how close do people think we really are.
2020. Maybe.
Lids won't get a flag. He doesn't deserve it.
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be interested to know peoples thoughts on this now the seasons started. how close do people think we really are.
2020. Maybe.
Lids won't get a flag. He doesn't deserve it.
I agree Lids wont get a flag at RFC, but IMVHO he does deserve one, and if he gets one elsewhere good luck to him, he would have been a huge success at Hawthorn IMO
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be interested to know peoples thoughts on this now the seasons started. how close do people think we really are.
I posted my thoughts preseason. But as I understand people reported my posts and I copped 48hr a ban for being too negative.
Interesting that now as the reality of where our club is at hits home, I see posts which are not dissimilar which remain unmoderated. I wonder if they are being reported too?
Then again the Hooray for everything crowd appear to have largely gone to ground which really confirms the cloak and dagger approach and makes one question motives.
maybe I was just ahead of my time?
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be interested to know peoples thoughts on this now the seasons started. how close do people think we really are.
- We have a reasonable core top 10 players
- Our bottom 12 players aren't strong enough and I thinks that is thanks to the FJ regime
- Our selection panel choices leaves me stunned at times
- There is something wrong with our culture
- Often our players seem lack lustre and disinterested
- We do not seem to have enough speed
- We make the same mistakes over and over again, ie kicking sideways and backwards letting the opposition flood our forward line
- I don't think our players understand front and square playing methodology
- We continually send the ball into our forward 50 into the side pockets, while often players are standing alone in better positions
- When we kick the ball in we have our 2 talls standing next to each other
- We persevere in kicking the ball to our disadvantage 3 on one scenarios
- Our coach doesn't seem to be able to adapt to changes during a game
- We do not get game time into our youngsters who probably get disillusioned playing in the VFL while Newman, Grigg and Houli or whoever) get games every week
Apart from that we are doing really well!?!?!? :whistle
Our season has started as per usual, we have no chance of winning a flag until all the above points have been addressed
:clapping
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be interested to know peoples thoughts on this now the seasons started. how close do people think we really are.
I posted my thoughts preseason. But as I understand people reported my posts and I copped 48hr a ban for being too negative.
Interesting that now as the reality of where our club is at hits home, I see posts which are not dissimilar which remain unmoderated. I wonder if they are being reported too?
Then again the Hooray for everything crowd appear to have largely gone to ground which really confirms the cloak and dagger approach and makes one question motives.
maybe I was just ahead of my time?
While we arent near a premiership this team does do surprising wins every year and unfortunately the reverse too.
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Even if the afl equivalent to this happened.....
(http://transform.fairfaxregional.com.au/transform/v1/resize/frm/storypad-vTy8nDiHb2dgfm6jBDCeZt/875adde0-31b8-4b62-93f9-fc2befd3ada0.jpg/w1200_h678_fcrop.jpg)
We'd not win a flag in the next few years.
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:shh
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Play like that every week and they can go a long way. Very long way...
Such a pain in the ass though. Performances like tonight would demolish teams like Melbourne and Footscray. And have beaten Geelong.
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It's a roller coaster ride this club that's for sure!
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would want to resign rance for stability
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Glad that round 1 in 2016 is a home game
Peggy will unfurl the flag ;)
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Play like that every week and they can go a long way. Very long way...
Such a pain in the ass though. Performances like tonight would demolish teams like Melbourne and Footscray. And have beaten Geelong.
And Norf too. :thumbsup
I think we know what the RICHMOND WAY is. :cheers
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Play like that every week and they can go a long way. Very long way...
Such a pain in the ass though. Performances like tonight would demolish teams like Melbourne and Footscray. And have beaten Geelong.
And Norf too. :thumbsup
I think we know what the RICHMOND WAY is. :cheers
Agreed :thumbsup
Finally, we can work it out because it's being done properly
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Lol at everyone complaining how stupid "the Richmond way" is and now it's suddenly their favourite thing to say
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#2 post guy knows his stuff
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Lol at everyone complaining how stupid "the Richmond way" is and now it's suddenly their favourite thing to say
I'm not so sure people were saying "The Way" itself was stupid, it was more about continuing to reference something they weren't prepared to explain.
If it's a secret and they don't want to explain it then don't refer to it.
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:lol
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Biggest come back since .... 73
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Cart before the horse....real question should be can we win a final.
Which is precisely why at this point we can't win a GF. We poo our pants in any old final. :banghead
lol we poo our pants in any important game yet alone finals.
in a list of 44 we need about a third 12 - 15 players to be elite A grade or very good B grade.and they need to be proven none of this potential b/s.
the only current players who fit the bill are.
Deledio, Cotchin, Maric, Martin, Miles, Rance. lose any two or three of the 6 and the seasons over as happened this yr.
some who show signs vlastuin,b ellis i put him here to save arguments, and theres hope lennon and c ellis can get there. every other player is C grade, a battler, or juniors who we just dont know.
we dont have a v/good 2nd kpf. we dont have a v/good 2nd kpd, we have just one decent ruckman and hes near 30. we lack inside mids with basically all the work load on just cotchin and miles.
we have soft weak pricks in abundance we lack one quality sml/med fwd who is not needed in the midfield. we have panic merchants and poor kicks in the back half and they are regularsgetting games because there is so few coming thru from below forcing them out.
lol a premiership in 2 yrs. oh to be so naieve, we will do very well just to stay in the 8 over the next few seasonshat will only happen if we get our fair share of kids developing and forcing the hacks out.
Pretty sure this is worth bringing up. It still applies today.Nothing has changed.
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3-4 big ins and a new coach and anything a possible.
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3-4 big ins and a new coach and anything a possible.
Yep as i said some things just dont change.
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3-4 big ins and a new coach and anything a possible.
Yep as i said some things just dont change.
:lol
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Whoa! Are people getting all worked up about the idea of making a few quick & easy changes & then clicking into gear to challenge for a flag? AKA 'The Quick Fix' strategy?
Same carrot, different donkeys! ::)
As for the 'Trade out your top end players for picks & blitz the draft' strategy, just ask any StKilda supporter if it worked for them! My advice, wear some protective head gear if you do ...
Bigger carrot, more donkeys! ::)
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Meh. While I have by enjoying riding the negative train for years on end the bookies who generally have some idea had us around 4th or so for the flag pre season
With our myriad of list cloggers and demented coach
Things can turn around quickly
Get horse as a coach, or steal beveidge / Simpson
Hurley
Patton
Jenkins
Prestia
And bobs your uncle
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Jp so what is the middle ground or third way
Surely the club needs to full rebuild or top up. We cannot keep poddering along with the same status quo imbeciles??
Whoa! Are people getting all worked up about the idea of making a few quick & easy changes & then clicking into gear to challenge for a flag? AKA 'The Quick Fix' strategy?
Same carrot, different donkeys! ::)
::)
The other option is sell the farm and wait 12 years for gws to burnout ?
As for the 'Trade out your top end players for picks & blitz the draft' strategy, just ask any StKilda supporter if it worked for them! My advice, wear some protective head gear if you do ...
Bigger carrot, more donkeys!
What is your plan if you don't like option a or b?
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I'm definitely removed from the sell your top tier players strategy. Our oldest "elite" player is Jack who turns 28 this year, plenty of great footy still to play.
Anyone and everyone else outside those top 4-5 players is up for grabs.
New Coach
New Recruitment and List Management
New President (Benny stays for now)
Maybe get a consultant in (Mick Malthouse type?) to review football operations and coaching.
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I don't think anyone is saying get rid of all our stars. Lids is 29 and has value. Why not look to trade him to a club in the "premiership window" with the chance of us getting another 10 year player in return. A win for both parties IMO.
Our first pick (pick 5) and a top pick for Lids (pick 6) and the recruitment of Hurley and we are well on our way to turning it around. Lids contract alone would take care of Hurley's new contract.
Add some decent picks for BEllis, Vickery, Griffiths and Conca and delist the list cloggers and we should have 10 to 12 new kids at the club. If we cannot get some of those picks right I'd be amazed.
With hopefully Yarran to come in next year too.
Lids is a star but with injuries starting to take there toll and him turning 30 soon, it's our best chance to secure another top 10 pick.
Do it Tigers! Or we are going to be left behind if we aren't already!!
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Yeah na
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I'm definitely removed from the sell your top tier players strategy. Our oldest "elite" player is Jack who turns 28 this year, plenty of great footy still to play.
Anyone and everyone else outside those top 4-5 players is up for grabs.
Who are the 4-5 players?
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Lids would need to agree to a trade and he's made it clear he wont go
So folks better come up with someone else :rollin
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I'm definitely removed from the sell your top tier players strategy. Our oldest "elite" player is Jack who turns 28 this year, plenty of great footy still to play.
Anyone and everyone else outside those top 4-5 players is up for grabs.
Who are the 4-5 players?
Rance
Lids
Chimp
Jack
Dusty
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Duds Duds EVERY WHERE DUDS. I love that song because it reflects the truth about our list.Yet all i see is denial . 4 or 5 real good ones and we are hunky dory lol.
4 or 5 real good players may help us make the a8 if all of our good players stayed healthy. But sheesh you people need to wake up look at the actual holes in each area of the list. ffs we have to totally rebuild our ruck stocks and if you took JR and AR out of the equation we need to totally rebuild our kpp stocks.FFS thats just the talls.
AH kid yourselves if you like who gives a stuff anymore? . Kidding ourselves is what we do best.
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Grimes. Hurley. Deledio.
C Ellis. Rance. C moore
Edwards. Vlastuin. Prestia.
Lennon. Patton. Cotchin
Rioli. Jack. Lloyd.
Jenkins. Martin. Miles.
Chol
Yarren
Menadue
Castagna
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Grimes. Hurley. Deledio.
C Ellis. Rance. C moore
Edwards. Vlastuin. Prestia.
Lennon. Patton. Cotchin
Rioli. Jack. Lloyd.
Jenkins. Martin. Miles.
Chol
Yarren
Menadue
Castagna
Haaaarrggghhh yep nothing changes.
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Constructive well done
HaaaarrggghhhHaaaarrggghhh
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Constructive well done
HaaaarrggghhhHaaaarrggghhh
Okay against better judgement i will play.
Just a few questions
How long to win a G/F REALISTICALLY. .?
How many on your list will make it
How Many realistically will we get.
Thats just for starters.
We have a bottom third list in reality. It won't turn around in a blink of the eye.If we continue to have middle of the road finishes it will be even harder.
Stop hoping for players, Rate players including juniors on what they have done rathjer than potential.Start at a worst case scenario.
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I'm definitely removed from the sell your top tier players strategy. Our oldest "elite" player is Jack who turns 28 this year, plenty of great footy still to play.
Anyone and everyone else outside those top 4-5 players is up for grabs.
Who are the 4-5 players?
Rance
Lids
Chimp
Jack
Dusty
Cheers :thumbsup
... the truth about our list.Yet all i see is denial . 4 or 5 real good ones and we are hunky dory lol.
4 or 5 real good players may help us make the a8 if all of our good players stayed healthy.
Confused. The conversation was regarding our top 4-5 players (see above). My argument has nothing to do with 4-5 players turn everything around. Everyone here is arguing that we need to make some bold trades.
I would disagree with your argument that we need a total rebuild.
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Constructive well done
HaaaarrggghhhHaaaarrggghhh
Okay against better judgement i will play.
Just a few questions
How long to win a G/F REALISTICALLY. .?
How many on your list will make it
How Many realistically will we get.
Thats just for starters.
We have a bottom third list in reality. It won't turn around in a blink of the eye.If we continue to have middle of the road finishes it will be even harder.
Stop hoping for players, Rate players including juniors on what they have done rathjer than potential.Start at a worst case scenario.
I disagree we are mid ranked as a list. For us to make top 4 is playing above our talent level but to finish bottom 6 is below it.
I see us as a 7 - 12th level list. We have a genuine goal kicker, 3 or 4 other A level talent and then it drops off to a lot of B level and some C and D level. Its not premiership material but its a good start. I reckon we'd really need Rioli, C Ellis and about 4 more to become A graders to win a premiership and thats before Lids gets too old. I don't see it happening myself unless we swap out our recruiting staff. National draft or bust but that takes 3 years really to make an A grader. In the mean time a bit more moneyball to find top up ruckmen and mids.
Note I don't think moneyball is trading away high ND picks, its low daft picks for under rated players
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Duds Duds EVERY WHERE DUDS. I love that song because it reflects the truth about our list.Yet all i see is denial . 4 or 5 real good ones and we are hunky dory lol.
4 or 5 real good players may help us make the a8 if all of our good players stayed healthy. But sheesh you people need to wake up look at the actual holes in each area of the list. ffs we have to totally rebuild our ruck stocks and if you took JR and AR out of the equation we need to totally rebuild our kpp stocks.FFS thats just the talls.
AH kid yourselves if you like who gives a stuff anymore? . Kidding ourselves is what we do best.
I think your being a little harsh. Look at our B's and C's like S Edwards, Ellis, Conca, Houli basically every team has a bunch of them. Someone with a hole in their game. They aren't duds per se but they are the best thing you have. What our B's don't do is impact a lot of games like say a Mick Martin used to do. And we are playing quite a few C's in Astbury, Griffiths
We also have a few D's in Hampson which indicates the huge hole in our ruck stocks.
The aim ought to be to get rid of our D's and C's and have all A's and B's but we're not adding A's at a fast enough rate. I would not be surprised if by the time Rioli is an A Lids will retire and so too S Edwards and the likes of Rance and Martin will be past their peak.
If anything you could argue we need to find more A's fast, so Yarran type trades are a good thing with this list ATM.
EDIT 2 2nd rounders was above for him, we got done I think given we ought to have known of his problems.
Let's play pretend that Yarran was playing to his potential, Lids hadn't got injured and Myles and Maric hadn't dropped off, we'd have no ruck hole and 6 A graders in Lids, Martin, Cotch, Rance, Reiwoldt, Yarran. We'd be sitting pretty, probably 7 and 4 not 4 and 7 and the brains trust would be being lauded as geniuses as we push for top 4 again but end up 5th or 6th and maybe win a final.
For me the solution is get rid of FJ and whoever in the recruiting team can't pick talent with round 2 ND or A grade talent with rnd 1 ND.
We need to get 2 or more above average AFL players each year and hopefully an A grader a year and we haven't got that for the last 7 years. Every year the fans salivate over our draft picks and every year they are poor, we get one good one and maybe they are an A grader, maybe a B. Vickery was a bust of a pick, Griffiths too. Even this year we took 5 ND and Rioli is an obvious success but are any others? I don't hear of any busting for a game based on talent alone.
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One risk I did like was McKenzie, even though its gone bad but he sounds like if he had got on the park he could have busted games open.
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On this site over the last few years i have heard the following need to go at various stages, i tend to agree with most as well.
Astbury, Batchelor, Chaplin, Conca, Ellis, Elton, Griffiths, Grigg, houli, Hampson, Hunt, Maric, Morris, Moore, Marcon, Townsend, Vickery,Could probably add Lambert and Lloyd.
The only player i would be tempted to hang onto is Conca mainly because i would like to see how he goes coming out of defense.
Then there are the juniors with huge question marks over their heads. They could all go either way None have done enough to establish themselves.
Butler, Castagna, Drummond, Lennon, McBean, McKenzie, Soldo, Chol, Moore, Short, I think this list a little underwhelming.They may all make it but i wont be counting my chickens until they do.
People think we dont need a rebuild. If a full on rebuild is not needed it is damn close to it.
What is left, Seniors
Cotchin, Deledio, Edwards, Grimes, Martin, McIntosh, Miles, Rance, Riewoldt, Vlastuin, Yarran. Even a few of these blokes i question.Especially in big games under pressure.
Juniors.
C Ellis, Menadue, Rioli, Even these three can be questioned.I put them here based mainly on potential.
The players above can be competetive but the lack of depth and quality smacks you in the face.
There are massive holes in key areas of the list and that is utilising all players.
There will be no quick fix
If we get in say Hurley, Prestia Tomlinson and a top ND pick it will help us remain a middling side if all things go well it may even help us make the 8.But we will still have the same type of problems we have now and it wont take much to push us back over the cliff.
It will take time to build a strong well balanced list full of quality and depth.
All of the above counts for nought if we do not first and foremost address FD issues.
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HaaaarrggghhhHaaaarrggghhh
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I'm definitely removed from the sell your top tier players strategy. Our oldest "elite" player is Jack who turns 28 this year, plenty of great footy still to play.
Anyone and everyone else outside those top 4-5 players is up for grabs.
Who are the 4-5 players?
Rance
Lids
Chimp
Jack
Dusty
Cheers :thumbsup
And how many do you class as elite?
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5/5 :shh
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Constructive well done
HaaaarrggghhhHaaaarrggghhh
Okay against better judgement i will play.
Just a few questions
How long to win a G/F REALISTICALLY. .?
How many on your list will make it
How Many realistically will we get.
Thats just for starters.
We have a bottom third list in reality. It won't turn around in a blink of the eye.If we continue to have middle of the road finishes it will be even harder.
Stop hoping for players, Rate players including juniors on what they have done rathjer than potential.Start at a worst case scenario.
your willing to trade for picks so Hackson and dimwit can select more duds?
Id rather rely on what we have, because with those 2 choosing we most likely will end up with the same type of hacks.
We are basically screwed until they start cleaning the rot from the top.
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On this site over the last few years i have heard the following need to go at various stages, i tend to agree with most as well.
Astbury, Batchelor, Chaplin, Conca, Ellis, Elton, Griffiths, Grigg, houli, Hampson, Hunt, Maric, Morris, Moore, Marcon, Townsend, Vickery,Could probably add Lambert and Lloyd.
The only player i would be tempted to hang onto is Conca mainly because i would like to see how he goes coming out of defense.
Then there are the juniors with huge question marks over their heads. They could all go either way None have done enough to establish themselves.
Butler, Castagna, Drummond, Lennon, McBean, McKenzie, Soldo, Chol, Moore, Short, I think this list a little underwhelming.They may all make it but i wont be counting my chickens until they do.
People think we dont need a rebuild. If a full on rebuild is not needed it is damn close to it.
What is left, Seniors
Cotchin, Deledio, Edwards, Grimes, Martin, McIntosh, Miles, Rance, Riewoldt, Vlastuin, Yarran. Even a few of these blokes i question.Especially in big games under pressure.
Juniors.
C Ellis, Menadue, Rioli, Even these three can be questioned.I put them here based mainly on potential.
The players above can be competetive but the lack of depth and quality smacks you in the face.
There are massive holes in key areas of the list and that is utilising all players.
There will be no quick fix
If we get in say Hurley, Prestia Tomlinson and a top ND pick it will help us remain a middling side if all things go well it may even help us make the 8.But we will still have the same type of problems we have now and it wont take much to push us back over the cliff.
It will take time to build a strong well balanced list full of quality and depth.
All of the above counts for nought if we do not first and foremost address FD issues.
Griffiths. Conca. Short. Lambert. Lloyd. Are serviceable. We only need some of them to be role players not stars.
Lennon. McBean. Moore. Chol have excellent upside potentially.
You can question till the cows come home yet
Cotchin, Deledio, Edwards, Grimes, Martin, McIntosh, Miles, Rance, Riewoldt, Vlastuin, Yarran...
Juniors.
C Ellis, Menadue, Rioli...
Is not a terrible core to build around. With future draft picks trading, free agents its possible to improve the side quickly.
Given the quality of rance and grimes hurley would be a massive addition. Tomlson, Prestia and and an overall smart offseason anything is possible. A new coach and list gurus would obviously help.