One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on September 09, 2009, 04:57:12 PM
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Next up is Gus.
Graham played 16 games in 2009 to take his total to 18 all up since being picked up in the 2005 rookie draft.
Games K H D M HO T G.B
2006: -
2007: 2 1.5 1.5 3.0 1.0 8.5 2.0 0.0
2008: -
2009: 16 2.9 6.5 9.4 3.4 14.2 2.9 5.3
http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=1785&SeasonID=ALL
Do we Keep or Trade Gus?
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He's contracted, he played some decent games this year, we wouldn't get much for him in a trade.
Keep Gus.
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I have always been surprised he was elevated after only a couple of games.
He's big, and with some coaching from Brendan Lade :pray he might be a handy ruck.
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Keep. Terrible last half of the year but most of his girlfriends did too. Will improve I think
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Big and strong but runs around like robbie the robot
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Big and strong but runs around like robbie the robot
Seen him today actually, Delist!
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He clearly ran out of puff in the 2nd half of the season
Had some surprisingly half decent games prior to that
I'd certainly keep him over Simmonds, he's only 22 years old, ruckmen start coming good when they are 23-24.
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good point infamy..I keep forgetting that big guys dont hit their peak until their mid 20s,unlees you're a stuff like Buddy or Richo
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He clearly ran out of puff in the 2nd half of the season
Had some surprisingly half decent games prior to that
I'd certainly keep him over Simmonds, he's only 22 years old, ruckmen start coming good when they are 23-24.
He didnt have puff to start with ::)
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Unless you get a top 20 no way, Ruckmen of his size with mobility are hard to find. He needs a bit of a rocket and as mentioned with a good ruck coach he will improve.
Woods + pick 14 LOL
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Needs more than a rocket i am afraid.
I dont think he will get any better than what he showed this year.
What you see, is what you get
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hey why couldnt the club save a few bucks and ask benny G to double up as ruck coach also......
I must admit i sometimes would watch our current ruck coach and think how could a guy with a gut that big be instructing elite athletes.....but that just might prove how much i know about coaching..LOL
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hey why couldnt the club save a few bucks and ask benny G to double up as ruck coach also......
I must admit i sometimes would watch our current ruck coach and think how could a guy with a gut that big be instructing elite athletes.....but that just might prove how much i know about coaching..LOL
I reckon your right.
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LOL jack which bit is right...the i have no idea about coaching part I suspect
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Unfortunately he is about all we have while Vickery comes along. I would give him one more year and work him hard, no point just being a tap ruckman and standing there after the ruck contest. In the pre-season I would be making his fitness a priority so he can push forward or back after the contest ala Benny Gale, he ended up a master at it and saved us many games accross CHB.
He must lift though and focus on more areas of the ruck game.
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Without hesitation I say TRADE
Played some good games early but as the season went on and things didn't go his way he continually dropped his head and seemed to be (for want of a better term ) sulking.
I could go on ;D
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remove from the list, whatever way is possible. Will never be a good player.
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And who is the magical ruckman waiting in the wings when we delist him, please don't mention trade because at the moment he is not worth anything to other clubs.
Please don't say Patto or Putt, or even pick whatever we get in the draft, Vickery can not handle the work load either????
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Without hesitation I say TRADE
Played some good games early but as the season went on and things didn't go his way he continually dropped his head and seemed to be (for want of a better term ) sulking.
I could go on ;D
So let get this straight, after investing 4 years into this kid, and after he has shown the most improvement this year out of the 4, and after he seems to have finally grown into his body, and with what we have as ruckmen on our list, and with him only being 22 and young for pretty much any ruckmen going around, you want to trade him????
WP, enlighten me with what you think we would get for him.
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I'm with you tone.
This guy needs proper ruck coaching. He can do it. If he can get the timing right in the ruck he should be able to hand it to our midfielders on a platter.
KEEP KEEP KEEP
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Keep him under the new coaching staff
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all arguments are valid,however,he's a wacko.
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remove from the list, whatever way is possible. Will never be a good player.
IN TOTAL AGREEMENT.
Why would we want to keep duds astounds me.
Some people dont want to see Richmond play finals, can you EVER imagine Angus playing finals on the G. :lol :lol :lol
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So let get this straight, after investing 4 years into this kid, and after he has shown the most improvement this year out of the 4, and after he seems to have finally grown into his body, and with what we have as ruckmen on our list, and with him only being 22 and young for pretty much any ruckmen going around, you want to trade him????
WP, enlighten me with what you think we would get for him.
big tone,
I understand your points about the 4 year investment and I agree to a point.
However, I am sick to death of watching Graham for whatever reason refuse to undertake the basic defensive parts of the game when things don't appear to go his way. People on here have been highly critical of Lids for not working hard enough when he doesn't have the ball, well my opinion is Graham doesn't either especially when things aren't going his way.
As example I will use round 22 in Perth and I guarantee this wouldn't have been picked up on the TV. As far as I know one of the basic fundamental rules of a ruckman is to drop back to the opposition goal scquare when someone has a kick just outside 50. I will admit I lost track of the number of times Graham was "strolling" around inside the 50m arc rather going back the goal square. It almost seems like he refuses to do it.
Round 22 is only one example - I have seen it since he started 4 years ago in Coburg reserves and it appears to be something that no-one can fix and it doesn't really appear to have improved - I reckon it is an attitude thing (again just my opnion)
Again I could go on....
I will finish by saying that players have dirty days but players have to have the ability to fight through and at least attempt to get the basic team things rights, sadly for me I don't see it enough with Graham and I ask the question how much more time do you give him
If we cannot get a decent trade I'd keep him but I would certainly investigate trading him
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Rather keep Gus for next year than Simmonds.
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Was a big detractor of Mongo and then he made an attempt to prove me wrong but failed in the end.
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I have voted to keep him.
I think as he matures he will do good for us.
And when we have the player to help him.
This will make him look better, and we will wonder why we said to trade him.
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I thought Simmo would be one of the first to go in the clean up.
With it a possibility that he may go around another year there must be big concern whether we have a genuine ruckman. Justified concern IMO as Angus just doesnt look like a footballer and Vickery is too young at the moment.
If Simmo is kept, continually blood Vickery and offer Angus up for trade and hope we can get a draft pick under 100
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Angus had a good month early in the season and that was about it.
I dont think he played a decent game after Rawlings took over.
:help
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I never understand the concept of quitting a job before you have another lined up the same way as you don't get rid of a key structural player if you have no one to replace him with. If he is retained, Simmonds is a year by year prospect at best who seems to be losing the mobility and leap made him so valuable to us by the day.
Like it or not, Gus is our best ruckman. Is this an indictment on our ruck stocks - you bet! Simmonds is now injury prone, Patto is a good honest toiler at best, Putt still has a long way to go if he every gets there and Vickery will be a second year ruck who needs a great deal more size, experience and education before he can become our 1st ruck option....which leaves Gus. :-\
Gus will never be a highly skilled 200cm midfielder but he is still young, he is developing is size and has more time (especially as a notoriously late developing ruckman) to learn and develop.
Regardless of what your beliefs are about how much more improvement is left in him, Gus is our best short term option and to get rid of him will leave a hole that we just can't fill at the moment.
Stripes
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Browne will go past Graham next year if we get a half decent ruck coach. If not, he will take 2 years. He keeps getting forgotten in all the 'options' we have going forward but I think he has more ability and attitude in his little toe than either of Graham or Putt. Give him 12 months and see what happens.
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In my opinion his biggest downside is his lack of mobility,and he appears poor overhead
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In my opinion his biggest downside is his lack of mobility,and he appears poor overhead
Correct :thumbsup
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Those can be fixed.
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when richmond was a strong club we had great ruckmen eg mark lee,Michael green,jack dyer,roy wright,neville crowe etc
seems with the lean years has come ruckmen of questionable ability,maybe this is one area we need to really build up...after all first usage of the ball is a great way to start a game
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So let get this straight, after investing 4 years into this kid, and after he has shown the most improvement this year out of the 4, and after he seems to have finally grown into his body, and with what we have as ruckmen on our list, and with him only being 22 and young for pretty much any ruckmen going around, you want to trade him????
WP, enlighten me with what you think we would get for him.
big tone,
I understand your points about the 4 year investment and I agree to a point.
However, I am sick to death of watching Graham for whatever reason refuse to undertake the basic defensive parts of the game when things don't appear to go his way. People on here have been highly critical of Lids for not working hard enough when he doesn't have the ball, well my opinion is Graham doesn't either especially when things aren't going his way.
As example I will use round 22 in Perth and I guarantee this wouldn't have been picked up on the TV. As far as I know one of the basic fundamental rules of a ruckman is to drop back to the opposition goal scquare when someone has a kick just outside 50. I will admit I lost track of the number of times Graham was "strolling" around inside the 50m arc rather going back the goal square. It almost seems like he refuses to do it.
I agree he appears lazy but ruckmen don't peak until 24+. I think he will be serviceable in the longer term. Also we have a new coach with a new mantra on tackling so we may see this side to his game develop.
I wouldn't trade him because he is the best ruckman at the club at the moment. Simmonds had a dog of a year last year and I think is past it. Putt and Vickery are too young and patto doesn't seem to have the bulk. He is the natural progression until one of Putt or Vickery overtake him.
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when richmond was a strong club we had great ruckmen eg mark lee,Michael green,jack dyer,roy wright,neville crowe etc
seems with the lean years has come ruckmen of questionable ability,maybe this is one area we need to really build up...after all first usage of the ball is a great way to start a game
Ah those were the days, when we could buy a ruckmen for a couple of pairs of jeans. :) Now its a couple of maserati's and a house in Toorak.
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when richmond was a strong club we had great ruckmen eg mark lee,Michael green,jack dyer,roy wright,neville crowe etc
seems with the lean years has come ruckmen of questionable ability,maybe this is one area we need to really build up...after all first usage of the ball is a great way to start a game
Was Mark Lee 22 years old when he was "a great ruckman"?
Are there any great 22 year old ruckmen?
Is every great ruckman a perfect footballer?
"....first usage of the ball is a great way to start a game....." and second usage is what gets the ball downfield to the goal scoring area.
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I agree he appears lazy [/quote]
That might be to do with his loping running style, not his efforts. Mark Waugh looked lazy, but we all know that he was really just laconic in his style as he played some great cricket innings.
Gus is not lazy, that is why he is still playing at AFL level and will do so for some years to come.
Let's not allow another club to benefit from the develop that Richmond have put into Gus, nor to waste that development by losing Gus to local footy.
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when richmond was a strong club we had great ruckmen eg mark lee,Michael green,jack dyer,roy wright,neville crowe etc
seems with the lean years has come ruckmen of questionable ability,maybe this is one area we need to really build up...after all first usage of the ball is a great way to start a game
Was Mark Lee 22 years old when he was "a great ruckman"?
Are there any great 22 year old ruckmen?
Is every great ruckman a perfect footballer?
"....first usage of the ball is a great way to start a game....." and second usage is what gets the ball downfield to the goal scoring area.
When Mark Lee was 23 years old he had played in two grand finals
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when richmond was a strong club we had great ruckmen eg mark lee,Michael green,jack dyer,roy wright,neville crowe etc
seems with the lean years has come ruckmen of questionable ability,maybe this is one area we need to really build up...after all first usage of the ball is a great way to start a game
Was Mark Lee 22 years old when he was "a great ruckman"?
Are there any great 22 year old ruckmen?
Is every great ruckman a perfect footballer?
"....first usage of the ball is a great way to start a game....." and second usage is what gets the ball downfield to the goal scoring area.
When Mark Lee was 23 years old he had played in two grand finals
Fair call Matt.
The General was a great ruckman.
But if he was at a struggling club without GF success would he be as good as history considers him?
Gus doesn't have that history......YET.....and he may never get it , but at least supprot him while he tries to get there.