One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: torch on October 31, 2009, 10:10:03 PM

Title: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: torch on October 31, 2009, 10:10:03 PM
Round 1 v Carlton 2009 (83 Point Loss)                       v                           Your Round 1 v Carlton 2010 (? ? ? Point ? ? ? ?)

Bowden, Joel
Browne, Andrew
Brown, Nathan
Cousins, Ben
Deledio, Brett
Edwards, Shane
Foley, Nathan
Jackson, Daniel
McGuane, Luke
McMahon, Jordan
Moore, Kelvin
Morton, Mitch
Newman, Chris
Raines, Andrew
Richardson, Matthew
Riewoldt, Jack
Schulz, Jay
Simmonds, Troy
Tambling, Richard
Thursfield, Will
Tuck, Shane
White, Matt
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: tdy on November 01, 2009, 12:30:11 AM
Off the top of my head

Alex Rance to replace bowden.

McMahon to get dropped for Mitch Farmer

Cotchin to come in for raines

Vickery to come in and play forward, off the bench.

Graham to come in for schulz and give us two rucks and possibly a top heavy side assuming Vickery wont ruck.

Oh and we'll still lose by 20 pts
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Infamy on November 01, 2009, 02:24:39 AM
Certainly not pencilling this one in as a loss given no Judd and no Fev.
Will be very interesting seeing how the Carlton forward line is structured
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: tdy on November 01, 2009, 09:36:09 AM
Certainly not pencilling this one in as a loss given no Judd and no Fev.
Will be very interesting seeing how the Carlton forward line is structured

No Judd?  I didn't know that.  Has he had surgery?

Ok we're in with a chance then.  Still its unusual for a new coach's system to take hold in the first year so I'd still put my money on carlton at this stage but maybe only 8 pts.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Penelope on November 01, 2009, 10:19:24 AM
Quote
No Judd?  I didn't know that.  Has he had surgery?
Enforced holiday!
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Smokey on November 01, 2009, 11:49:56 AM
Quote
No Judd?  I didn't know that.  Has he had surgery?
Enforced holiday!

They gave him a couple of weeks off to practice his pressure points.    :scream :rollin :scream
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Gigantor on November 01, 2009, 11:54:12 AM
LMAO smokey : :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Penelope on November 01, 2009, 12:49:39 PM
Quote
No Judd?  I didn't know that.  Has he had surgery?
Enforced holiday!

They gave him a couple of weeks off to practice his pressure points.    :scream :rollin :scream
:ROTFL
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: mightytiges on November 01, 2009, 11:59:13 PM

Round 1 v Carlton 2009 (83 Point Loss)                       v                           Your Round 1 v Carlton 2010 (? ? ? Point ? ? ? ?)

Bowden, Joel
Browne, Andrew
Brown, Nathan
Cousins, Ben
Deledio, Brett
Edwards, Shane
Foley, Nathan
Jackson, Daniel
McGuane, Luke
McMahon, Jordan
Moore, Kelvin
Morton, Mitch
Newman, Chris
Raines, Andrew
Richardson, Matthew
Riewoldt, Jack
Schulz, Jay
Simmonds, Troy
Tambling, Richard
Thursfield, Will
Tuck, Shane
White, Matt
Ins to come from Cotch, Vickery, Post, Collo, Martin, Nahas, Connors and Rance.

If we pick up a 20-22 year old late in the ND or in the PSD then they could be another option.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: torch on November 21, 2009, 12:01:12 AM
 :)
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: WA Tiger on November 21, 2009, 02:55:59 AM
Off the top of my head

Vickery to come in and play forward, off the bench.


Can someone please explain to me why people keep putting Vickery in the forward line as his prominant position?? He has played ruck for 90% of his career and occasionally as a forward. He is a ruckman and that is where he should line up come round one, against Kruz.

The same happened with Patto, he was recruited as a CHF/forward and because of our ruck shortages when Simmo went down, Graham was injured and one other was out he was put in the ruck. He was and is too short and did not have the leap, agility or strength to pull that position off and if those players were not injured he would have played out of the ruck about 20% instead of 100%. But as fate would have it everyone bagged Patto as a ruckman....... but he never was one. Vickery is a part time forward at best, he is more of a ruckman that moves forward to kick a couple now and then.

Vickery played his junior football against Natnui and the like and his position is ruck, moving forward. Vickery is a ruckman who should rest at FF but it is NOT his prominant position.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: jackstar is back again on November 21, 2009, 07:35:25 AM
Off the top of my head

Alex Rance to replace bowden.

McMahon to get dropped for Mitch Farmer

Cotchin to come in for raines

Vickery to come in and play forward, off the bench.

Graham to come in for schulz and give us two rucks and possibly a top heavy side assuming Vickery wont ruck.

Oh and we'll still lose by 20 pts


If Angus Graham plays , we will get flogged
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Francois Jackson on November 21, 2009, 09:16:25 AM
Off the top of my head

Vickery to come in and play forward, off the bench.


Can someone please explain to me why people keep putting Vickery in the forward line as his prominant position?? He has played ruck for 90% of his career and occasionally as a forward. He is a ruckman and that is where he should line up come round one, against Kruz.

The same happened with Patto, he was recruited as a CHF/forward and because of our ruck shortages when Simmo went down, Graham was injured and one other was out he was put in the ruck. He was and is too short and did not have the leap, agility or strength to pull that position off and if those players were not injured he would have played out of the ruck about 20% instead of 100%. But as fate would have it everyone bagged Patto as a ruckman....... but he never was one. Vickery is a part time forward at best, he is more of a ruckman that moves forward to kick a couple now and then.

Vickery played his junior football against Natnui and the like and his position is ruck, moving forward. Vickery is a ruckman who should rest at FF but it is NOT his prominant position.

agree.

Players should be played to their positions not thrown here there and everywhere. The problem with us for far too long is players are always played out of position.
Tambling, Edwards as a half back planker-what a joke, Patto, Richo) List goes on

I want Vickery played in the Ruck because i dont rate Simmo and Graham well who the stuff knows what he will end up, prob at the Dingley tip.

Tiges would've won this game till i heard Gary march say this will be a Richo goodbye game so on that note, the build up, the big game day celebration combined with the fact the Blues will be out to make a big point, will result in a Tiger loss.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Penelope on November 21, 2009, 09:48:06 AM
Quote
Tiges would've won this game till i heard Gary march say this will be a Richo goodbye game so on that note, the build up, the big game day celebration combined with the fact the Blues will be out to make a big point, will result in a Tiger loss.
Hopefully the richo farewell will be at half time, not before the game.
Im sure Hardwick will have a different approach to wallet in regards to preparation. Hopefully he can keep a lid on things so the players dont leave it in the sheds like they did last year.
I think some of the tiger boys will have a point to prove as well.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Damo on November 21, 2009, 12:14:54 PM

Can someone please explain to me why people keep putting Vickery in the forward line as his prominant position?? He has played ruck for 90% of his career and occasionally as a forward. He is a ruckman and that is where he should line up come round one, against Kruz.

The same happened with Patto, he was recruited as a CHF/forward and because of our ruck shortages when Simmo went down, Graham was injured and one other was out he was put in the ruck. He was and is too short and did not have the leap, agility or strength to pull that position off and if those players were not injured he would have played out of the ruck about 20% instead of 100%. But as fate would have it everyone bagged Patto as a ruckman....... but he never was one. Vickery is a part time forward at best, he is more of a ruckman that moves forward to kick a couple now and then.

Vickery played his junior football against Natnui and the like and his position is ruck, moving forward. Vickery is a ruckman who should rest at FF but it is NOT his prominant position.


Um because he is 27kg soaking wet. Put him in against more solid bodies for an extended amount of time and your asking for trouble. How about you let him develop?
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Jacosh on November 21, 2009, 03:51:55 PM
Off the top of my head

Vickery to come in and play forward, off the bench.


Can someone please explain to me why people keep putting Vickery in the forward line as his prominant position?? He has played ruck for 90% of his career and occasionally as a forward. He is a ruckman and that is where he should line up come round one, against Kruz.

The same happened with Patto, he was recruited as a CHF/forward and because of our ruck shortages when Simmo went down, Graham was injured and one other was out he was put in the ruck. He was and is too short and did not have the leap, agility or strength to pull that position off and if those players were not injured he would have played out of the ruck about 20% instead of 100%. But as fate would have it everyone bagged Patto as a ruckman....... but he never was one. Vickery is a part time forward at best, he is more of a ruckman that moves forward to kick a couple now and then.

Vickery played his junior football against Natnui and the like and his position is ruck, moving forward. Vickery is a ruckman who should rest at FF but it is NOT his prominant position.
Correct me if im wrong but i believe TV is as good a fwd as ruck, He played fwd quite a bit as a jnr from memory and even in the TAC cup they put him fwd as much as possible.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: WA Tiger on November 21, 2009, 07:48:03 PM

Can someone please explain to me why people keep putting Vickery in the forward line as his prominant position?? He has played ruck for 90% of his career and occasionally as a forward. He is a ruckman and that is where he should line up come round one, against Kruz.

The same happened with Patto, he was recruited as a CHF/forward and because of our ruck shortages when Simmo went down, Graham was injured and one other was out he was put in the ruck. He was and is too short and did not have the leap, agility or strength to pull that position off and if those players were not injured he would have played out of the ruck about 20% instead of 100%. But as fate would have it everyone bagged Patto as a ruckman....... but he never was one. Vickery is a part time forward at best, he is more of a ruckman that moves forward to kick a couple now and then.

Vickery played his junior football against Natnui and the like and his position is ruck, moving forward. Vickery is a ruckman who should rest at FF but it is NOT his prominant position.


Um because he is 27kg soaking wet. Put him in against more solid bodies for an extended amount of time and your asking for trouble. How about you let him develop?

And how the hell is plonking him at FF against big bodied FB's going to help him develop when he will be smashed from every angle not just front on?????? PLEASE wake up. What size was Kruz when he played his first year...... smaller than Vickery is now mate thats for sure!! Vickery is a ruckman and he needs to develop in the ruck first and formost....IMO

How about you let him develop..... where he should play!!
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: WA Tiger on November 21, 2009, 07:53:03 PM
Off the top of my head

Vickery to come in and play forward, off the bench.


Can someone please explain to me why people keep putting Vickery in the forward line as his prominant position?? He has played ruck for 90% of his career and occasionally as a forward. He is a ruckman and that is where he should line up come round one, against Kruz.

The same happened with Patto, he was recruited as a CHF/forward and because of our ruck shortages when Simmo went down, Graham was injured and one other was out he was put in the ruck. He was and is too short and did not have the leap, agility or strength to pull that position off and if those players were not injured he would have played out of the ruck about 20% instead of 100%. But as fate would have it everyone bagged Patto as a ruckman....... but he never was one. Vickery is a part time forward at best, he is more of a ruckman that moves forward to kick a couple now and then.

Vickery played his junior football against Natnui and the like and his position is ruck, moving forward. Vickery is a ruckman who should rest at FF but it is NOT his prominant position.
Correct me if im wrong but i believe TV is as good a fwd as ruck, He played fwd quite a bit as a jnr from memory and even in the TAC cup they put him fwd as much as possible.

So please re-read my last sentence then!! But he is more a ruckman than a forward, we (some) are trying as supporters to play another young player out of his position and then we can all sit back and ridicule him for being no good as a forward like Patto and even Tuck for that matter when he HAD to play ruck...... :scream

Daniel was right, Edwards played off the backline last year WTF and he wasn't the only one, play the players where they are suited and Vickery should go against Kruz opening bounce in this game IMO!!
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Jacosh on November 21, 2009, 08:18:49 PM
Off the top of my head

Vickery to come in and play forward, off the bench.


Can someone please explain to me why people keep putting Vickery in the forward line as his prominant position?? He has played ruck for 90% of his career and occasionally as a forward. He is a ruckman and that is where he should line up come round one, against Kruz.

The same happened with Patto, he was recruited as a CHF/forward and because of our ruck shortages when Simmo went down, Graham was injured and one other was out he was put in the ruck. He was and is too short and did not have the leap, agility or strength to pull that position off and if those players were not injured he would have played out of the ruck about 20% instead of 100%. But as fate would have it everyone bagged Patto as a ruckman....... but he never was one. Vickery is a part time forward at best, he is more of a ruckman that moves forward to kick a couple now and then.

Vickery played his junior football against Natnui and the like and his position is ruck, moving forward. Vickery is a ruckman who should rest at FF but it is NOT his prominant position.
Correct me if im wrong but i believe TV is as good a fwd as ruck, He played fwd quite a bit as a jnr from memory and even in the TAC cup they put him fwd as much as possible.

So please re-read my last sentence then!! But he is more a ruckman than a forward, we (some) are trying as supporters to play another young player out of his position and then we can all sit back and ridicule him for being no good as a forward like Patto and even Tuck for that matter when he HAD to play ruck...... :scream

Daniel was right, Edwards played off the backline last year WTF and he wasn't the only one, play the players where they are suited and Vickery should go against Kruz opening bounce in this game IMO!!

I dont need to re-read you last sentance. Its very clear, i am simply disagreeing with you.
Vickery isnt ready to go up against kruzer yet IMO.
Besides the whole point of my post was that he wont be being played out of position as a fwd, he is as much a fwd as a ruckman. Comparing him playing as a fwd to Edwards in the bacline is comparing apples to oranges.
I have faith in the new coaching team that they will play people in the right position,if that means letting someone like Vickery develop by getting some more game time as a fwd before putting him in the ruck then so be it.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: cub on November 21, 2009, 09:53:29 PM
Vickery will be a good player guys, just don't expect any miracles next year.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: WA Tiger on November 21, 2009, 10:47:21 PM
Off the top of my head

Vickery to come in and play forward, off the bench.


Can someone please explain to me why people keep putting Vickery in the forward line as his prominant position?? He has played ruck for 90% of his career and occasionally as a forward. He is a ruckman and that is where he should line up come round one, against Kruz.

The same happened with Patto, he was recruited as a CHF/forward and because of our ruck shortages when Simmo went down, Graham was injured and one other was out he was put in the ruck. He was and is too short and did not have the leap, agility or strength to pull that position off and if those players were not injured he would have played out of the ruck about 20% instead of 100%. But as fate would have it everyone bagged Patto as a ruckman....... but he never was one. Vickery is a part time forward at best, he is more of a ruckman that moves forward to kick a couple now and then.

Vickery played his junior football against Natnui and the like and his position is ruck, moving forward. Vickery is a ruckman who should rest at FF but it is NOT his prominant position.
Correct me if im wrong but i believe TV is as good a fwd as ruck, He played fwd quite a bit as a jnr from memory and even in the TAC cup they put him fwd as much as possible.

So please re-read my last sentence then!! But he is more a ruckman than a forward, we (some) are trying as supporters to play another young player out of his position and then we can all sit back and ridicule him for being no good as a forward like Patto and even Tuck for that matter when he HAD to play ruck...... :scream

Daniel was right, Edwards played off the backline last year WTF and he wasn't the only one, play the players where they are suited and Vickery should go against Kruz opening bounce in this game IMO!!

I dont need to re-read you last sentance. Its very clear, i am simply disagreeing with you.
Vickery isnt ready to go up against kruzer yet IMO.
Besides the whole point of my post was that he wont be being played out of position as a fwd, he is as much a fwd as a ruckman. Comparing him playing as a fwd to Edwards in the bacline is comparing apples to oranges.
I have faith in the new coaching team that they will play people in the right position,if that means letting someone like Vickery develop by getting some more game time as a fwd before putting him in the ruck then so be it.

If Vickery isn't ready to go up against Kruz at the moment then why was Kruz (with a smaller frame and in his first year) going up against the best ruckmen in the competition for 20 rounds?

Thats great your disagreeing and it makes for a good argument but IMO he should be ready to go full time into the ruck and part time as a forward when drifting down that way, as he should also do the same drifting back to help out when he can. I wasn't comparing Edwards to Vickery either I was comparing how it affects players when they are played out of their natural positions.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: WA Tiger on November 21, 2009, 10:49:50 PM
Vickery will be a good player guys, just don't expect any miracles next year.

No one is expecting miricles, but a contributed effort in the ruck would be expected one would think.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: WilliamPowell on November 22, 2009, 01:30:21 PM
I actually think Vickery is a very very good forward.

Will he be a good ruckman - YEP no dispute there

The kid has footy smarts which means he can play either

Long term the question is what is his best position going to be?

Most would say as a ruckman, personally I wouldn't be surprsied if it is as a KP Forward
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on November 22, 2009, 02:09:45 PM
Comparisons with Kruezer are apt at this stage of TV career.
However just as Kruezer, Ty was recruited primarily as a ruckman.
Just like Kruezer in his first season Ty was more remembered for his play up forward than his ruckwork. I remember Kruezer kicking 3 in the last quarter at AAMI when the Scum beat the Bogans there in 2008.
Assuming that Kruezer was a little more consistent in the ruck this year and up forward I would tend to think the same will apply to Ty.

Will end up being a very good player for us either way whether forward or ruckman.

For those of us who watched in the 1990's our current CEO had a very respectable career as a CHF and in his later years as a ruckman. Take it easy people the kid has shown enough signs that he will be at the minimum a serviceable player whether it be a ruckman of forward. :thumbsup
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: torch on November 22, 2009, 11:38:36 PM
15. Farmer          2. Thursfield           18. Rance                 
14. Polo            16. McGuane            17. Newman
                                                                           
32. Cousins          3. Deledio             30. Tambling 

9. Cotchin          37. Post                 20. Morton
35. White            8. Riewoldt            26. Nahas

5. Simmonds

23. Jackson          41. Foley

40. Moore          25. Graham          21. Tuck          22. Martin
       
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: WA Tiger on November 23, 2009, 12:08:06 AM
Comparisons with Kruezer are apt at this stage of TV career.

Comparisons regarding their similar build is all I was referring too TB. I just believe if Kruz at his size in his first season could go up against the best ruckman for 20 rounds then surley Vickery could do the same next year and he will be bigger. He is about the same size and Kruz now and come round one they should go toe to toe.... IMO.

I do agree with the rest of your post though. :thumbsup
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Infamy on November 23, 2009, 01:12:48 PM
Comparisons with Kruezer are apt at this stage of TV career.

Comparisons regarding their similar build is all I was referring too TB. I just believe if Kruz at his size in his first season could go up against the best ruckman for 20 rounds then surley Vickery could do the same next year and he will be bigger. He is about the same size and Kruz now and come round one they should go toe to toe.... IMO.

I do agree with the rest of your post though. :thumbsup
Sorry WAT, Kreuzer had cameos in the ruck in his 2nd year, but he certainly wasn't their #1 ruckman. Playing our kids in the ruck too much as their bodies are developing then you end up with an injury affected player like Josh Fraser. Play him in the ruck against other younger ruckmen, but he shouldn't be competing against guys like Sandilands.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: WA Tiger on November 23, 2009, 11:19:46 PM
Comparisons with Kruezer are apt at this stage of TV career.

Comparisons regarding their similar build is all I was referring too TB. I just believe if Kruz at his size in his first season could go up against the best ruckman for 20 rounds then surley Vickery could do the same next year and he will be bigger. He is about the same size and Kruz now and come round one they should go toe to toe.... IMO.

I do agree with the rest of your post though. :thumbsup
Sorry WAT, Kreuzer had cameos in the ruck in his 2nd year, but he certainly wasn't their #1 ruckman. Playing our kids in the ruck too much as their bodies are developing then you end up with an injury affected player like Josh Fraser. Play him in the ruck against other younger ruckmen, but he shouldn't be competing against guys like Sandilands.

I didn't say he was their #1 ruckman but I actually thought he played a hell of a lot in the ruck and he did go up against the best when he had a smaller frame like Vickery. I really think Vickery could make a statement in this game and I don't believe he would be affected in any way including injuries. I know he will probably play off the bench relieving Simmonds & Graham in this game and playing forward as well. But I would like to see him line up at the first bounce and see what he has got.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Infamy on November 24, 2009, 08:31:32 AM
I don't understand the need to try and rush his development so early. He's 12 months into what is hopefully a 12-15 year career, you don't want to impact his prime years by battering his young body against 120kg behemoths now. Let him develop physically first and gradually increase his exposure to more and more ruck contests.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: WA Tiger on November 24, 2009, 11:52:46 AM
No rush Infamy but he is a ruckman in the making and needs more exposure to the ruck this year IMO, let's start that round one.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: torch on November 24, 2009, 12:26:01 PM
Tyrone Vickery i believe will be a very good 80% Ruckman and 20% Full Forward.

he did some special things this year that i thought will make him a brilliant player!

dodging about four Essendon players springs to mind!

 :)
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: Smokey on November 24, 2009, 01:34:08 PM
Kruezer was also 5kgs heavier than Vickery when drafted and that is quite a big difference in 2 players of the same height when trying to compete against 'men' in their first year.
Title: Re: R1 2009 v Your R1 2010
Post by: torch on December 05, 2009, 12:30:14 AM
 :)