One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: the claw on January 23, 2010, 10:26:53 PM
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okay genuine mids/onballers for now.
Cotchin- Potential A grader or very good to elite player. is still very much in development and has a long way to go to earn the right to be considered an elite player. Not even established yet.
Deledio a B grader or very good to this point should continue to get better. obviously established.
Cousins - an A grader still very good/elite trouble being hes 32 and we should be looking for his replacement already.
Foley - while being a solid footballer i rate him a b/c grader or real solid core list player to very good. is clearly established.
Martin - like cotchin a very good to elite. i expect him to play 15 plus games, but i dont expect him to have a huge impact yet. it would be madness for anyone to expect that. atm very much a D grader or development and very much not established.
Tambling - has basically given us half a season last yr.showed he can play at the required level. imo a C grader or core list with some reservations has only just established himself and thats being kind. he may go on to be a very good player and he may not.
thomson.- a hard one to judge and place. while there is obvious improvement to be had i cant place him as a C grader or in the core list. entering yr 6 its make or break for him so few games and some obvious weakness in his game im going to place him borderline below standard/core list and clearly not established. it would be good if he can take the next step we need some big bodied onballers.
Tuck - ah one of my favorites. but im still pulling my hair out every time he has ball in hand. has been a required player because of the dearth of big bodied and quality mids about the place. for me hes a below standard player who can perform a role. he is established even though hes below standard. we have to do better than the tucks of the world.
Jackson - imo not a mids hole. goes hard but decision making and smarts are terrible. may have a role as a tagger its not saying much. another B/S grade but hes established.
Edwards - yep a genuine mid. entering 4th yr and has a power of work to stay on the list. footskills are poor imo and his size is a worry. im going to be kind and place him in development still. so imo a D but could go either way. obviously hes not established.
Collins - a true diamond in the rough. his development has been slow but has all the attributes to be a core list player at worst. imo will be a B grader or very good clearly hes not established.
Contin - on the rookie list a genuine inside hard at it mid. what i have seen i like. still hes in early development or D grade we will have to wait and see with this lad.
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I reckon Contins a real chance to do a Coughlan type role. Could become a real handy player in time.
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I reckon Contins a real chance to do a Coughlan type role.
With better foot disposal I hope :lol
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Talls
Riewoldt - does have limitations in his game, i rate hime a D to C grader. that is hes still developing but will imo become like foley a solid core list player or better.
he has not established himself as a player yet but hes getting there.
Rance - i liked him as a junior but people are right to have alarm bells ringing with this kid.
atm he lacks awareness decision making and his footskills are not up to scratch.to top it of he has shown little in one on one situations and his aetial work is wanting.
imo this kid does not have the skills to be developed as a tall running defender.he must be developed as an accountable kpp but does not show the required attributes to do this.
yep im concerned atm i rate him a D grader or development player borderline at that.
Moore - has had one good season in 6. has constantly struggled with injury and imo asking him to play kp has not helped.
at 189cm 86kg he really should not be playing kp at all.
while i think moore has most of the tools to play afl he is yet to display the attributes needed to play as a third tall or running back. he just does not get involved in the game enough. your backs need hurt factor well your running backs do.
C grader or core list player who is barely established with just one good season behind him.
Thursfield- 191cm 86kg kpd.needs bulk and needs to hold down a kp. theres just no other option with him.
he either makes it as a kpp or he is gone. gives absolutely nothing else other than defensive attributes. if hes to be a third tall he needs to dramatically improve a huge area of his game, after 5yrs i cant see it.
lets hope he gets some size about him this off season and he can hold down fb, imo a C grader or core list player at best and is yet to truly establish himself.
Mcguane - quite simply put a trier who is not up to standard. imo a below standard B/S player or F
Vickery/Post/Griffiths/Astbury - simply put all are in early development and should not be expected to hold down a kp.
all are a long way of and are clearly D graders or development players atm. obviously none are established.
would go so far as to say while post who will play back and vickery a ruckman show lots of promise there is no guarantee that any of these boys will ultimately make it.
Polak - imo has always been a B/S or below standard player or F grade. who after 9 yrs in the system is truly yet to establish himself. some will argue this and without going into the many weaknesses this bloke has in his game they are entitled to their view.
in a lot of ways Polak sums up our problems with talls. hes one of only two talls on the entire list who have 100 games behind them. so experience thru the list is limited and those talls with experience imo are below standard or no longer up to it.
mcguane and moore would both barely have 50 plus games. for games played they are the next most experienced yet as stated mcguane is also B/S and moore imo isnt really a tall.
Grimes - neat skills and has attributes that say we should of targeted more like him. obviously a D grade or development player and just as obvious not established. like all other kids we have its to early to say if he will make it or not there are no guarantees.
Westhoff - vey skinny long term prospect D grade or development player. not established. like grimes there are no guarantees.
Gourdis - a raw athlete who has serious skill problem ie kicking. but like one or two other players at clubs his athleticism could make up for his poor skills ala richo or buddy. we will have a better idea at the end of this yr of where he is heading. atm for me becuase of skills ive rated him D development to BS below standard. clearly he is not established.
Graham - a real trier who gives his all. but everything i see about him tells me B/S below standard. hes needed atm because the young rucks we do have are not ready. not established but will play lots of games despite his rating.
Browne - promising ruckman but is in early development and has a ways to go no guarantees with him but his rating is D grade or development clearly not established.
there are some glaringly obvious deficiencies with our talls structurally theres little experience few truly established to at least core list standard and we are forced to go with to many developing types.
any way thats my take on the talls go pick it apart.
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It's not the list,it's the lack of soul in the club.
It's the years and years of bad leadership.
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It's not the list,it's the lack of soul in the club.
It's the years and years of bad leadership.
Ditto! We should add in the 'c' word too- culture!
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Honest? Yes.
realistic? From your perspective "yes", but clawfully pessimistic and negative. Your glass appears to be clalways half-empty.
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Honest? Yes.
realistic? From your perspective "yes", but clawfully pessimistic and negative. Your glass appears to be clalways half-empty.
Yep the more things change the more they stay the same.
Heard it all before.
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@ Claw -
I find it interesting you Foley was one of the best players on the field at the 'all-star' game, and yet you reckon he is a 'C Grade' footballer.
More so, to call Deledio merely 'B Grade' is also a very stiff call. For a number of reasons. How many AFL footballers 23 years old or under would you consider 'A-Grade'?
Is it not possible Cousins could play at a high level for Richmond for another 3 years?
In what way has Andy Collins 'developed slowly'? He was a very late pick in '06. Breaking into the team last season and having an impact is about best as could have been hope for.
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Reiwoldt as a 'D grader' is rather stiff. How many & who, younger KPP in the AFL do you rate ahead of him, as A / B / C grade?
I think people forget Rance did well just to come back from his head injury. Drafted in '07 and playing against people a lot older than him, he still has time of his side I would have thought.
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Honest? Yes.
realistic? From your perspective "yes", but clawfully pessimistic and negative. Your glass appears to be clalways half-empty.
hmm i dont think theres anything pessimistic in that lot. there are negatives of course.it aint all roses with our players or do you think it is.
you think im wrong how about you tell me which bits are wrong. if in being honest and realistic means the picture is not pretty i dont see how it can be overly negative or pessimistic or incorrect. if im right its just that being right and negative or pessimistic has nothing to do with it its just the way things are.
you tell me what bits are overly negative or pessimistic or wrong.
where do you rate each player A = elite. B = verygood. C =core list. D = development. and B/S or F = below standard or fail.perhaps while your at it you can tell me which players have actually established themselves as consistent at least core list players.
i did this thread to see what others actually thought in regards where each player is at, and to see how many players and which people think are established players.
you want to criticise or label posts you could at least put up with a counter argument.
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how on earth can anyone make an objective call on draft pix...plucked from the clacker and for whats its worth that's where they should remain...refer to earlier thread on draft pix to see what bollocks that is all about :thumbsup
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okay genuine mids/onballers for now.
Contin - on the rookie list a genuine inside hard at it mid. what i have seen i like. still hes in early development or D grade we will have to wait and see with this lad.
Interested to know Claw,where & when have you seen Contin ?
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@ Claw -
I find it interesting you Foley was one of the best players on the field at the 'all-star' game, and yet you reckon he is a 'C Grade' footballer.
More so, to call Deledio merely 'B Grade' is also a very stiff call. For a number of reasons. How many AFL footballers 23 years old or under would you consider 'A-Grade'?
Is it not possible Cousins could play at a high level for Richmond for another 3 years?
In what way has Andy Collins 'developed slowly'? He was a very late pick in '06. Breaking into the team last season and having an impact is about best as could have been hope for.
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Reiwoldt as a 'D grader' is rather stiff. How many & who, younger KPP in the AFL do you rate ahead of him, as A / B / C grade?
I think people forget Rance did well just to come back from his head injury. Drafted in '07 and playing against people a lot older than him, he still has time of his side I would have thought.
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foley - first. i can take numerous players who are core players who have played the odd blinder. i rated foley C/B That is a solid consistant core list player to very good. you think hes regulary very good or elite i dont. hes played his fair share of very good games but in the main hes your run of the mill ball winning mid.
deledio - i rated a B GRADE = very good player. i also said he will get better and hence he will become elite. do you think deledio elite i dont but i think he will get there. how many out side of the rfc would place deledio in the elite bracket atm.
Cousins - i take it your comments are about me saying we should be looking for his replacement now. i dont back down from that. even if we get another 3 yrs from cuz it will take at least 3 yrs for someone to get anywhere near his capacity. make no mistake imo we are still short of quality mids going forward.
Collins - turns 22 next yr so hes a 21 yr old mid whos played how many games. also i think hes taken awhile because of his size. a better prospect than most on the list and far better skill set. imo it has taken him awhile to break into the team and get a game. i will concede though he should have been given more games than he has got.
Riewoldt- i believe i placed him development still. is this assesment wrong?i dont think so. for me hes shown plenty but hes hardly become a consistant footballer performing regularly at the required minimum level.imo he still has a way to go.
as said hes getting there and i expect him to become a solid core list player at the least. he may become very good. but for now id take his next step to be consistent solid afl player. again i think ive placed him actually where he is at i havent said he wont make it or will only ever be a C grader. the opposite.
theres a lot of under 23 kpps i would place in the same boat or similar. tippett is one who comes to mind clarke another.
is kruezer an A grader no but what hes given so far but thats not to say im not impressed and think he may or at least become very good.
Rance - hmm i placed in the D category what hes not in development. i have concerns about him because of deficiencies in his game. he is a poor kick his decision making has been poor his awareness is not where it should be. and he has not been good in the air or in one on ones. if this continues he wont make it. hes had just two yrs and he does have some time to turn things around. in an ideal world he would go back to coburg for a good stint to work on these aspects of his game. i make no apologies for rance. even with all those concerns have i not written him of.
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okay genuine mids/onballers for now.
Contin - on the rookie list a genuine inside hard at it mid. what i have seen i like. still hes in early development or D grade we will have to wait and see with this lad.
Interested to know Claw,where & when have you seen Contin ?
my cousin was quite keen on him i havent seen him live but ive seen a few tapes on him. cousin was no2 in recruiting at an afl club and still takes a huge interest in the kids.
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i agree with claw that Riewoldt is still a d class player. we over rate our players by a long way. to even get to b grade status Riewoldt needs to 50 goals and to get to a grade status the tally needs to get to 65goals + per season regularly.
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how on earth can anyone make an objective call on draft pix...plucked from the clacker and for whats its worth that's where they should remain...refer to earlier thread on draft pix to see what bollocks that is all about :thumbsup
whos making a call on recent draft picks. those that have even been mentioned basically everyone single one has been placed in development and not established where they belong. i dont believe a comment has been made on their strengths and weaknesses.
instead of whinging like a stuck pig and generalising come out and say what you disagree on.
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Couldnt agree more Smokey.
Collins for example is pick 72. Diamond in the rough whether we got him by accident or by clever drafting who knows.
Rate his potential against someone like Tom Hislop pick 20 same draft. You'd say Collins is more likely to make it as an AFL footballer. If you tanked taht year to get Hislop, it wouldn't have proven worthy compared to a pick 72. An extra PP may improve your chances of drafting a better player but it's what happens after that counts.
I put List Management ahead of Tanking any day.
Clean out the dead wood every year and have extra picks in draft then you normally would and draft players like Collins and Nason, if you continued to hang onto dead wood (Schultz, Raines, Pettifer etc) you will have limited picks.
Our problem over the last 5 years wasn't NOT tanking it WAS failing to have the balls to cut players like Schultz, Pettifer, Rodan and gave them too many chances. On top of poor drafting of course.
IMO you should always look to draft a minimum of 6 untried 17-19 year olds each year and give them a footy and say show us what your made of instead of giving someone a 5th consecutive year and saying this might be their year. This is also why Hislop, King, McMahon should be moved on unless they cement a best 22 spot on the list and show potential for more improvement.
Its all about list management not tanking.
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Claw, mate, I have heard of rose coloured glasses but, what the hell colour are yours? (shades of depressing shizer?) I feel like slashing my wrists reading that. On a good note the orange boys will be a little prompter this year as they have been training harder than ever. :thumbsup
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Couldnt agree more Smokey.
Collins for example is pick 72. Diamond in the rough whether we got him by accident or by clever drafting who knows.
Rate his potential against someone like Tom Hislop pick 20 same draft. You'd say Collins is more likely to make it as an AFL footballer. If you tanked taht year to get Hislop, it wouldn't have proven worthy compared to a pick 72. An extra PP may improve your chances of drafting a better player but it's what happens after that counts.
I put List Management ahead of Tanking any day.
Clean out the dead wood every year and have extra picks in draft then you normally would and draft players like Collins and Nason, if you continued to hang onto dead wood (Schultz, Raines, Pettifer etc) you will have limited picks.
Our problem over the last 5 years wasn't NOT tanking it WAS failing to have the balls to cut players like Schultz, Pettifer, Rodan and gave them too many chances. On top of poor drafting of course.
IMO you should always look to draft a minimum of 6 untried 17-19 year olds each year and give them a footy and say show us what your made of instead of giving someone a 5th consecutive year and saying this might be their year. This is also why Hislop, King, McMahon should be moved on unless they cement a best 22 spot on the list and show potential for more improvement.
Its all about list management not tanking.
thats it though isnt it im not rating them on potential alone. if that were the case vickery post martin and many others would be A or B.There are heaps of potential A or B ranked players as juniors littered in the ranks of obscurity.
collins who i have liked heaps for awhile now is where he is in the scheme of being an afl player. he shows heaps of promise but has done nothing other than to show his potential. to give him an A now would be tantamount to saying hes as good as judd.
where is hislop currently in the scheme of things well i am yet to do the remainder of players on the list but for mine hislop is currently b/s but at 21 i d give him this yr to show he can be at least a core list player.
as for everything else you have said i agree wholeheartedly and its these things ive banged on about for so many yrs now.
if we had cut players we would have had lower finishes imo and hence had more pps. and the one thing i disagree on, is tanking does help significantly to grow your list especially with quality.
you do both. you cut deep and you play kids this in turn usually means a period at or near the bottom of the ladder which aides tanking. after all common sense says while near the bottom you should be targeting as many kids as possible and as early as possible for obvious reasons..
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Claw, mate, I have heard of rose coloured glasses but, what the hell colour are yours? (shades of depressing shizer?) I feel like slashing my wrists reading that. On a good note the orange boys will be a little prompter this year as they have been training harder than ever. :thumbsup
my glasses are plain old reading glasses that enables me to see clearly.
cmon owl you obviously disagree with a lot of what i say but you dont say exactly what you disagree with. im more than happy to debate the pros and cons of whats been written its what this is about but it seems very few are prepared to discuss our players at all in terms of rating them and deciding whos an established player or not.
i will say again theres nothing pessimistic in the assesments its where imo each player is currently at im not saying many players wont improve far from it.but there are some who wont is that being negative i dont think so its honest and realistic.
im no expert and i will have ratings that are wrong for and against players.
i must say im disappointed at the lack of debate on what has been said. no one prepared to give an opinion on this around here it seems.
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So how often do you see our boys live claw?
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no where near enough. most of the family is in melb and tas probably average about half a dozen games a season.
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Hello all - just back from holidays. :cheers
Claw - I agree with much of what you have said but believe some of your rating are a little askew.
I'm assuming you are rating players on current form rather than potential so I will do the same. Given our 2009 ladder positioning and current average age of the list you probably are being too kind. In reality we are a failure and so when you compare most of our players to the rest of the competition you could easily argue that they are B/S or failures also...but I don't necessarily believe this is the case. Individual players weaknesses are always more exposed when they do not have the appropriate supportive structures around them - this has been the problem with our team for so long. Other teams have players who are weaker than many of ours yet they have the sufficient structures and talent around them to hide these deficiencies. So perhaps once our players have a straight forward, team orientated game plan and structures around them their flaws will be less noticeable and their strengths exemplified. We'll see once Harwicks game plan is fully established but I digress - back to the individual players....
I think you are too hard on McGuane for a start. McGuane is our best backman by a long way. You may say this is more of an indication how poor the rest of the backline and that could well be correct but he has the pace and spoiling skills to trouble any forward. He needs to increase in body size but he is deceptively strong. Watching him at training he was a standout in one on one muscle work and spoiling. His foot disposal can let him down but, as I inferred above, this is highlighted by lack of running support in the backline. I would rate him a B and lock him into the CHB position with good rebounders and uses by foot flanking him.
I think your assessment of Foley was also a little harsh. Perhaps if you were basing it purely on this year given his unjuries yet you rated Cousins as an A when he miised much of the year due to injuries also. At full fitness Foley was proven to be one of the best midfielders in the league and was a standout during the State of Orgin 'Spectacular'. Not only was he chosen for the Victorian team but was best midfielder of the night. Injury has crueled his last two seasons but, given an injury free run, his form will see him at a A level once more.
Deledio is an A grade player particularly given his age and the fact he has had to shoulder much of the midfield responsibility and tags from an extremely young age. Sure he is still learning to shrug a tag but how many other 20 year old players had to endure the No 1 tag from the opposition week in week out because he was already out teams best ball carrier. That is depressing. Lids needs support and all of a sudden, like Ablett/Swan/Black etc, he will have the room to shine. He is an A grader without a doubt.
Sorry claw I've run out of time but I hope that gives you some debate to stew over ;) :thumbsup
Stripes
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Not saying Jack's anywhere near where he want him to be but I'd give him slack. It must have been a nightmare playing as a key forward the way we moved the ball and with little KP support around him so he often got the best defender. 32.27 isn't a great return and he needs to work on his kicking penetration big time to improve his accuracy but still it's a respectable return for a tall forward in his 3rd year playing in a crap side that often had half the number of inside 50s as our opponents. He's way ahead of his 2006 draft KP peers.
Apart from that I don't disagree too much with the rest of Claw's rankings based on our 2009. Not too many Tigers could hold their head up after the year they had.
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Claw, mate, I have heard of rose coloured glasses but, what the hell colour are yours? (shades of depressing shizer?) I feel like slashing my wrists reading that. On a good note the orange boys will be a little prompter this year as they have been training harder than ever. :thumbsup
my glasses are plain old reading glasses that enables me to see clearly.
cmon owl you obviously disagree with a lot of what i say but you dont say exactly what you disagree with. im more than happy to debate the pros and cons of whats been written its what this is about but it seems very few are prepared to discuss our players at all in terms of rating them and deciding whos an established player or not.
i will say again theres nothing pessimistic in the assesments its where imo each player is currently at im not saying many players wont improve far from it.but there are some who wont is that being negative i dont think so its honest and realistic.
im no expert and i will have ratings that are wrong for and against players.
i must say im disappointed at the lack of debate on what has been said. no one prepared to give an opinion on this around here it seems.
Oh its ok I think your a little harsh on some of em is all. I might be a bit optomistic on Riewoldt and I think Tambo has turned into good player, he was one of the few bright lights this year for us, he played with confidence and class. I think Lids is bit better rated too. I ll do the others later I gotta take my mog to the vet he ate something unsavory.
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Thought I would give my ratings from 2 perspectives - current and potential. No comments attached but I'll debate any replies. Anyone who hasn't played a senior game is automatically F because they can't be anything else and there are only a few current D's and no E's because of our cleanout - that removed most of the ones who I would have rated at that.
Current Potential
Astbury F B+
Browne F A
Collins C B+
Connors E B
Contin F B+
Cotchin B- A
Cousins A A
Dea F B+
Deledio A- A+
Edwards C- B+
Farmer E B
Foley B A
Gilligan F B
Gourdis F B
Graham D B
Griffiths F A
Grimes F B
Hicks F B
Hislop D B
Jackson B A-
King D C
Martin F A
McGuane B- A-
McMahon D+ C
Moore C B
Morton B- B+
Nahas C B+
Nason F B+
O'Reilly F B
Polak D C
Newman B- B
Polo C B+
Post D- A
Rance D+ B
Riewoldt B- A
Roberts F B+
Simmonds C- C
Tambling B- A+
Taylor F B+
Thomson D B
Thursfield C- B-
Tuck B- B
Vickery D A
Webberley F B+
Westhoff F A
White C+ B
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Claw, mate, I have heard of rose coloured glasses but, what the hell colour are yours? (shades of depressing shizer?) I feel like slashing my wrists reading that. On a good note the orange boys will be a little prompter this year as they have been training harder than ever. :thumbsup
my glasses are plain old reading glasses that enables me to see clearly.
cmon owl you obviously disagree with a lot of what i say but you dont say exactly what you disagree with. im more than happy to debate the pros and cons of whats been written its what this is about but it seems very few are prepared to discuss our players at all in terms of rating them and deciding whos an established player or not.
i will say again theres nothing pessimistic in the assesments its where imo each player is currently at im not saying many players wont improve far from it.but there are some who wont is that being negative i dont think so its honest and realistic.
im no expert and i will have ratings that are wrong for and against players.
i must say im disappointed at the lack of debate on what has been said. no one prepared to give an opinion on this around here it seems.
Oh its ok I think your a little harsh on some of em is all. I might be a bit optomistic on Riewoldt and I think Tambo has turned into good player, he was one of the few bright lights this year for us, he played with confidence and class. I think Lids is bit better rated too. I ll do the others later I gotta take my mog to the vet he ate something unsavory.
hope the mog is okay.
i dont think we are that far apart.
i dont think you are optimistic on riewoldt he will be a good player. tambling showed he can play and lids has been very good i think he will be elite. its just that atm i dont believe any of them are where we expect them to finish up. and they may not get there who knows.
look i dont want to be preaching to people but you just dont come into the afl and automatically become an A grade player. you earn that rating by playing very good footy at a consistant level for yrs.
to me a grade is also about being good/very good/elite in all areas or most areas not just one or two. its this that has me rating a few a little lower than some expect.
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Hello all - just back from holidays. :cheers
Claw - I agree with much of what you have said but believe some of your rating are a little askew.
I'm assuming you are rating players on current form rather than potential so I will do the same. Given our 2009 ladder positioning and current average age of the list you probably are being too kind. In reality we are a failure and so when you compare most of our players to the rest of the competition you could easily argue that they are B/S or failures also...but I don't necessarily believe this is the case. Individual players weaknesses are always more exposed when they do not have the appropriate supportive structures around them - this has been the problem with our team for so long. Other teams have players who are weaker than many of ours yet they have the sufficient structures and talent around them to hide these deficiencies. So perhaps once our players have a straight forward, team orientated game plan and structures around them their flaws will be less noticeable and their strengths exemplified. We'll see once Harwicks game plan is fully established but I digress - back to the individual players....
I think you are too hard on McGuane for a start. McGuane is our best backman by a long way. You may say this is more of an indication how poor the rest of the backline and that could well be correct but he has the pace and spoiling skills to trouble any forward. He needs to increase in body size but he is deceptively strong. Watching him at training he was a standout in one on one muscle work and spoiling. His foot disposal can let him down but, as I inferred above, this is highlighted by lack of running support in the backline. I would rate him a B and lock him into the CHB position with good rebounders and uses by foot flanking him.
I think your assessment of Foley was also a little harsh. Perhaps if you were basing it purely on this year given his unjuries yet you rated Cousins as an A when he miised much of the year due to injuries also. At full fitness Foley was proven to be one of the best midfielders in the league and was a standout during the State of Orgin 'Spectacular'. Not only was he chosen for the Victorian team but was best midfielder of the night. Injury has crueled his last two seasons but, given an injury free run, his form will see him at a A level once more.
Deledio is an A grade player particularly given his age and the fact he has had to shoulder much of the midfield responsibility and tags from an extremely young age. Sure he is still learning to shrug a tag but how many other 20 year old players had to endure the No 1 tag from the opposition week in week out because he was already out teams best ball carrier. That is depressing. Lids needs support and all of a sudden, like Ablett/Swan/Black etc, he will have the room to shine. He is an A grader without a doubt.
Sorry claw I've run out of time but I hope that gives you some debate to stew over ;) :thumbsup
Stripes
hope you had a good lay off. lucky you.
mcguane without going into a bag fest on him let me just say we will have to agree to disagree i just cant see it with this bloke. yep he gives his all is probably one of our better kpds but it means jack. we have to upgrade on the mcguanes if we are to improve.
foley - ive rated him upper core list to very good. maybe a bit harsh but i have my reasons.
for me nathan is ordinary or better to say has improved and become averge in the single most important skill in the game.kicking. hes no buckley or gibbs or ricciuto etc. the hurt factor with his outside work is not elite its passable.its this more than anything that has me not rating him an elite player.
his inside work has been very good and a couple of seasons back elite. he generally goes and gets it and usually finds a target when dishing it out. hes a dangerous player because with his pace and run he can play inside and out. his smaller body imo has seen him play more and more outside or that may be injury. imo he regularly drops away to core list standard but he does throw in very good to elite games.
injury free and going well will probably see me reassess his rating.
Deledio - hmm again maybe a little harsh on brett. hes been very good consistently. but i dont think hes achieved what a judd or ablett or hird and a few others have. im like most though i think he will be an elite player and it will get easier for him when he gets some quality around him.still has some areas to work on as well.
in reality we arent that far apart on foley and deledio.
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Thought I would give my ratings from 2 perspectives - current and potential. No comments attached but I'll debate any replies. Anyone who hasn't played a senior game is automatically F because they can't be anything else and there are only a few current D's and no E's because of our cleanout - that removed most of the ones who I would have rated at that.
Current Potential
Astbury F B+
Browne F A
Collins C B+
Connors E B
Contin F B+
Cotchin B- A
Cousins A A
Dea F B+
Deledio A- A+
Edwards C- B+
Farmer E B
Foley B A
Gilligan F B
Gourdis F B
Graham D B
Griffiths F A
Grimes F B
Hicks F B
Hislop D B
Jackson B A-
King D C
Martin F A
McGuane B- A-
McMahon D+ C
Moore C B
Morton B- B+
Nahas C B+
Nason F B+
O'Reilly F B
Polak D C
Newman B- B
Polo C B+
Post D- A
Rance D+ B
Riewoldt B- A
Roberts F B+
Simmonds C- C
Tambling B- A+
Taylor F B+
Thomson D B
Thursfield C- B-
Tuck B- B
Vickery D A
Webberley F B+
Westhoff F A
White C+ B
Smokey does "Potential" = optimistic best case scenario for us?
Because with that many potential A and B graders on our list we would eventually dominate the next 10-15 years when the list matures ;).
The older guys like Jordie and Kingy should have almost identical "current" and "potential" rankings as they have reached their potential and if anything will go backwards :help rather than improve.
I agree with most of your "current" rankings smokey. Shows why I believe we'll finish bottom 2 this year. Too many young and inexperienced players who could be anything or may not and of the few experience Tigers we have most aren't up to standard and will be cut at year's end.
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Smokey does "Potential" = optimistic best case scenario for us?
Because with that many potential A and B graders on our list we would eventually dominate the next 10-15 years when the list matures ;).
The older guys like Jordie and Kingy should have almost identical "current" and "potential" rankings as they have reached their potential and if anything will go backwards :help rather than improve.
I agree with most of your "current" rankings smokey. Shows why I believe we'll finish bottom 2 this year. Too many young and inexperienced players who could be anything or may not and of the few experience Tigers we have most aren't up to standard and will be cut at year's end.
Yes MT, potential means how far I think they can go given all their individual planets aligning. New coach, new attitude, maturity etc etc all could come into play in turning their current rating to their potential rating - same goes for McMahon and King - they all would have some room for improvement unless they are at the end of their career age-wise, but obviously some have far more scope for improvement than others.
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By the way great thread claw! Interesting to debate speculatively at this time of year! :thumbsup
I'm looking forward to seeing what a difference our new coach/s have made to our list initially. We have been a team of individuals for almost a decade - Richo exemplified this with his amazing talent but lack of defensive game etc - so with better structures, a clear game plan and a team focused mentality I believe individuals will start to shine. Players can not do it alone, they need support and confidence in each other and their actions.
I think we will find many players will step up this year using the new game plan and structures as the base they needed to build upon.
Stripes
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okay thought i had better do the rest and finish this.
small/med fwds and backs, flankers.etc
Dea/Taylor/ Hicks/ Oreilly - to make it easy simply put all are D rated that is in development and clearly not established.
i hope Tylor and Dea get some games this yr as part of their education.
Roberts - boy a difficult one. in terms of age and player type by 23 you would normally expect him to be established at least core list by now.
imo a D or development player but short term development.obviously he has to learn at afl level.but he doesnt want to take his time in doing so. im hoping at 23 he can quickly come to terms of afl and quickly establish himself clearly the club is hoping the same.
Webberley - a little like roberts but would have more time up his sleeve to prove himself. despite being 21 i rate him D or development the little ive seen he looks a player.
Nason - another small player a 20 yr old who meets all the skillset requirements but has done little was playing ressies in the sanfl. im going to rate him a D or development player obviously hes not established.
one thing at this point does stand out all of the players taken this yr have good skills apart from maybe hicks.
Connors - make or break yr for him. has the skills but has done little. im not going to be kind and place him solely in development. to me hes D and below standaerd B/S atm based on performance output. clearly not established.
Hislop - hard at it 21 22 yr old. like connors make or break yr to me hes currently B/S OR below standard. kicking and pace are two major concerns. not established.
King - too small too dumb and unskilled. B/S or below standard.
Mcmahon - skinny outside player who crumbles under pressure with no defensive side to his game. the best i can say for him is at the right club he could play a role i suppose. for me and us B/S or below standard.
i still cant believe we went thru hell and then traded the pp we gave blood to get for this bloke.
Morton - many tiger supporters rate him highly. i still have concerns. but playing as a small med forward and kicking 42 goals one cant complain. his game lacks in several areas and im only going to place him in the C or core player group for now. i think he can become a B or very good player.also imo hes only just established himself.
Polo - sorry polo fans but i dont get it with this bloke.with out going into a rant imo hes B/S or below standard. and still not established. its the polos we have to improve on hopefully someone like Matt Dea is that improvement.
White - another easily definable B/S or below standard player. just does not have the skill set.
Gilligan - 2nd yr rookie D or development and not established.
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i agree with claw that Riewoldt is still a d class player. we over rate our players by a long way. to even get to b grade status Riewoldt needs to 50 goals and to get to a grade status the tally needs to get to 65goals + per season regularly.
d class players arent capable of taking 14 marks and bagging 7 g in a senior game...D grade would infer not really up to remaining on a senior list...which is well off the mark when you consider he is 20 and came off kicking 30-40g last year...get it right ::)
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i agree with claw that Riewoldt is still a d class player. we over rate our players by a long way. to even get to b grade status Riewoldt needs to 50 goals and to get to a grade status the tally needs to get to 65goals + per season regularly.
d class players arent capable of taking 14 marks and bagging 7 g in a senior game...D grade would infer not really up to remaining on a senior list...which is well off the mark when you consider he is 20 and came off kicking 30-40g last year...get it right ::)
lol D grade has been mentioned how many times and nearly every time in relation to development just goes to show some just dont read.
what were the comments oh yeah. hes a D to C grader. that is he is still developing but will become like foley a solid core list player or better.now i could elaborate further but your not interested i wont waste my time.
i think it also went he has not established himself as a player but hes getting there. that is hes inconsistant plays some good ones and plays some bad ones. sheesh i wonder who needs to get it right.
just for you seeing as you find it hard to understand or your having trouble seeing heres the rating scale again in bold for those dodgy eyes..
A = ELITE , B = VERY GOOD, C CORE GROUP, D DEVELOPMENT. B/S BELOW STANDARD.
so i take it you dont think jack is still in development or still developing. am i to assume hes truly established also.
based on what oh yeah he managed to kick 7 in a game once.
i tell ya what just for you to stop the whining i will rate an A.
hmm a bloke called schulz took how many marks and kicked how many goals in a game once. i wonder just where you would rate him in the scheme of things.
not likely to find out though are we. seems your reluctant to rate anyone. no theres no putting it out there for you. youll just sit back and play dumb. cmon im interested and im sure most on here are as well to hear exactly where you rate our players and see who you think is established at least core list. cmon no one is going to laugh at ya.sheesh people may even do you the courtesy of actually reading your post correctly and not play silly buggers.
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Not saying Jack's anywhere near where he want him to be but I'd give him slack. It must have been a nightmare playing as a key forward the way we moved the ball and with little KP support around him so he often got the best defender. 32.27 isn't a great return and he needs to work on his kicking penetration big time to improve his accuracy but still it's a respectable return for a tall forward in his 3rd year playing in a crap side that often had half the number of inside 50s as our opponents. He's way ahead of his 2006 draft KP peers.
Apart from that I don't disagree too much with the rest of Claw's rankings based on our 2009. Not too many Tigers could hold their head up after the year they had.
:cheers
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have bought this up more in reply to rank the midfield thread than anything. will get into it soon.
same ratings apply
A - elite. B - very good. C - core group. D - development. B/S - below standard.
please note people a D rating does not mean fail or dud. it applies to junior players who are exactly that in early development.i tend to dump development players in this category regardless. in saying this you can still judge many factors.
you could dump any kid taken from 07 onwards into the development category.
blokes like dustin martin who look elite in every way may not make it or to word it a bit better he is yet to establish himself. in the overall scheme of things hes done little but as a first yr player he has done much.
certain things determine a rating. weather a player has truly established himself in the afl. its not just about a player establishing themselves to at least core list standard. but has a player established himself in the category hes placed in. over all performance, 2010 performance. strenght and weakness. experience, games played, age, potential. all come into play.
any way like i said soon.
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how do you see the d grade rating of jack in Jan this year, little off beam wouldn't you say for the reigning Coleman medalist. Can't wait for the next installment , another bunch of doozies no doubt :lol
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how do you see the d grade rating of jack in Jan this year, little off beam wouldn't you say for the reigning Coleman medalist. Can't wait for the next installment , another bunch of doozies no doubt :lol
no i reckon the rating spot on at the start of 2010.
i have defended jack on all sites . go have a look at riewoldt threads. a lot of people were putting boots into him prior to this yr. i thought his progress more than passable.but at the end of 2009 the rating was still in development. i placed him there because he actually was still a junior undersized inconsistant and in development.
he was good at times and very poor at times.he had p[arts of his game that had to improve for him to continue to improve.
i have said he has continued to improve every yr i defended him in the sense of his size performance and potential.
he was always going to be inconsistent and struggle at times because of the physical aspect.if you look at posts i have done on him you will see have stated much of his improvement has come from his size improvement. he can now compete physically but he still has some work to do in this area.
i did say i thought jack would be at the least core to very good in time, but atm he is still in development. what part of this you cant understand has me bewildered.
if you actually read posts you would know this.
to finish of jack is still in development especially for a tall. but while in development he has established himself to a degree as a bona fide afl player who may become very good (some will argue hes already very good) to elite if he can string together another 2 or 3 seasons like this one. and improve a couple of areas of his game.
where would i classify jack atm well thats easy. c to b, or core to very good.yet in many ways he is still very much developing. the good thing about jack he has taken it up a notch every yr.
with all of the above i have never said any different yet you try to paint a picture of me putting him down.
if i was basing my rating on just 2010 you would have to give him at the least a b rating or very good. but im not doing that. he had a very good season i dont believe anyone can argue that. but one season does not make a player or a reliable rating. hes had one great yr for a 21 yr old but if he really struggles for the next two where do you put him. very good to elite players are consistant and the gap between good and bad is not to great. jacks task to me to prove himself is consitently playing to a high standard and finding a way to make decent contributions when getting beat.
i have given you the courtesey of answering your question honestly even though you regularly try to take the pee.now answer one in return.
where was jack at at the start of 2010 iyo.
was he established was he consistant did he have weaknesses. did you think him not still in development.
i have said hes still develeping and in in all likelyhood to be at least a core list player with a good chance of him becoming very good. no matter how you try to twist it this is what i wrote.
to me you have taken this debate to a point scoring exercise ignoring whats actually written all because you dislike what i have to say. you dont have the balls to put your own ratings up prefereing to take cheap shots.
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Probably harsh but here goes as a quick ranking ......
A - Lids, Jack
B - Martin, Cotch, Newy, Moore, Foley (if injury free)
C - Grigg, Edwards (C+), Houli, Farmer, McGuane, Connors, Morton, Tuck (C+), Jacko (C+), Gus, King, White, O'Reilly, Webberley, Nason
D - Thursty, Rance, Nahas, Gourdis, Hislop#, Miller#
Vickery, Post, Griffiths, Astbury, Conca, Batchelor, Helbig, McDonald, Derickx, Dea, Taylor, Hicks, Grimes, Contin#, Westhoff#
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Probably harsh but here goes as a quick ranking ......
A - Lids, Jack
B - Martin, Cotch, Newy, Moore, Foley (if injury free)
C - Grigg, Edwards (C+), Houli, Farmer, McGuane, Connors, Morton, Tuck (C+), Jacko (C+), Gus, King, White, O'Reilly, Webberley, Nason
D - Thursty, Rance, Nahas, Gourdis, Hislop#, Miller#
Vickery, Post, Griffiths, Astbury, Conca, Batchelor, Helbig, McDonald, Derickx, Dea, Taylor, Hicks, Grimes, Contin#, Westhoff#
Fair call there, MT. Agree with most of that but I reckon Astbury is a C grader. I think he definitely showed more than what O'Reilly, Nason (who is a D grader for mine) and Webbers did in their first season. I'd rate him higher than Farmer too. The kid looks like he'll finish up being a quality swingman.
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Right now I would put a huge question mark over Foley. I think most people are rating him on his tremendous form a couple of years ago. We need to wait and see.
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I'd have it a bit differently
A - Lids, Foley (if injury free)
B - Martin, Cotch, Newy, Moore, Jack (B++ doesn't need to improve in 2011, but just needs to back up his season then I'll put him up in the A section)
C - Astbury, Grigg, Edwards (C+), Houli, McGuane, Connors, Morton, Tuck, Jacko, Gus, King, White, Nason, Thursty, Miller#
D - Farmer, Rance, Webberley, O'Reilly, Nahas, Gourdis, Hislop#, Vickery, Post, Griffiths, Conca, Batchelor, Helbig, McDonald, Derickx, Dea, Taylor, Hicks, Grimes, Contin#, Westhoff#
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Bump.
Appraisal of our players now?
A - Cotch, Lids, Jack
B - Maric (B+: an A if he backs it up this year), Grimes, Martin, Grigg, Rance, Tuck, Chaplin, Foley, Newy (B-: post-30), Houli (B-), S.Edwards (B-), Conca (B-), Morris (B-)
C - Nahas (C+), King (C+), Jacko (C+), Vickery (B on 2011 form), Knights (B if injury free), Ellis, Batch, Griffiths, Astbury, Dea, Helbig, A.Edwards, Petterd, Stephenson
D - McGuane, White, Derickx, Lonergan
1 year or less cubs/unknowns: Vlastuin, McIntosh, McBean, McDonough, Elton, Arnot, O'Hanlon, Darrou, Verrier, Simon
We'll obviously be hoping a few of the younger B- & C cubs step up a grade this year for us to play finals.
ps. Claw's analysis from 3 years ago wasn't the worst out there by any means looking back btw.
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ps. Claw's analysis from 3 years ago wasn't the worst out there by any means looking back btw.
For grammar, punctuation, sentence structure and general readability I gave it an F
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ps. Claw's analysis from 3 years ago wasn't the worst out there by any means looking back btw.
For grammar, punctuation, sentence structure and general readability I gave it an F
3 years. Richmond will make finals sooner than craw will post anything legible enough to comprehend.
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Appraisal of our players now?
A - Cotch, Lids, Jack, Maric, Martin, Chaplin, Foley, Grimes and Morris
B - Grigg, Tuck, Houli S.Edwards Conca Batch Vickery
C - Nahas, King, Ellis, Griffiths, Dea, Helbig, Newman
D - McGuane, White, Derickx, Rance, Jackson, Astbury,
1 year or less/unknowns: A.Edwards, Petterd, Stephenson, Knights, Vlastuin, McIntosh, McBean, McDonough, Elton, Arnot, O'Hanlon, Darrou, Verrier, Simon, Lonergan
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Appraisal of our players now?
D - Rance
WTF?
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A - Cotch, Lids, Jack, Maric, Foley, Grimes
B - Grigg, Tuck, Houli S.Edwards, Conca, Vickery, Morris, Martin, Newman, Rance, Chaplin,
C - Nahas, King, Ellis, Griffiths, Dea, Helbig, Batch, Jackson,
D - McGuane, White, Derickx, Astbury,
1 year or less/unknowns: A.Edwards, Petterd, Stephenson, Knights, Vlastuin, McIntosh, McBean, McDonough, Elton, Arnot, O'Hanlon, Darrou, Verrier, Simon, Lonergan
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Appraisal of our players now?
D - Rance
WTF?
He's a poo kick that's why
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Appraisal of our players now?
D - Rance
WTF?
He's a poo kick that's why
On your criteria then Morris should be a D.
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Appraisal of our players now?
D - Rance
WTF?
He's a poo kick that's why
Maybe so but he can get the ball in one back pocket, run 100 meters to the fat side And then pump it deep inside the forward 50.
An ability veryl few key defenders have
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Appraisal of our players now?
D - Rance
WTF?
He's a poo kick that's why
On your criteria then Morris should be a D.
Morris is a better kick than Rancer
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Not brilliant but Rance is an adequate kick for a defender. He's no D grader in that regard like Post(now gawn) & McGuane.
Bigger issue for Alex is not overcommitting to the contest.
Deserves to be in the B category.
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Appraisal of our players now?
D - Rance
WTF?
yeah pretty ridiculous
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A thread by claw, say anyone seen a rerun of seinfeld lately :sleep
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A thread by claw, say anyone seen a rerun of seinfeld lately :sleep
:lol Seinfeld. Gold BJ :cheers
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This thread is about something FFS just not sure what
No way Maric is A grade
Good solid B grader at his peak
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This thread is about something FFS just not sure what
No way Maric is A graDde
Good solid B grader at his peak
Just like Gus :shh
Why hasen't Shaun Gerg or Greg White been mentioned in this thread :huh
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This thread is about something FFS just not sure what
No way Maric is A graDde
Good solid B grader at his peak
Just like Gus :shh
Why hasen't Shaun Gerg or Greg White been mentioned in this thread :huh
:lol Shaun Gerg? Is that's gerks' uncle or something? :shh
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Uncle Touchy's puzzle basement
Big Ivvy had a good year but he's no A grader don't mug yourself don't mug yourself
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This thread is about something FFS just not sure what
No way Maric is A grade
Good solid B grader at his peak
What afl rucks are a grade
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Only Cox
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Only Cox
Stefan Martin.
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Obviously didn't need to be said
A grade 3rd ruck at Brissy, cat that ate the cream those guys
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jeez ol claw got it pretty right id say. not that anyone around here would acknowledge anything.
thought about doing another appraisal for this yr. then thought na. not mentioning names thats for sure. i cant be bothered putting up with the b/s that some little people just have to put out.
let someone else put it out there and defend every word they say.. seems most dont want to hear it and certainly dont want to discuss whats written. just some bare numbers is about all some of you lot deserve. .
3 elite players A graders
12 b/s players or there abouts. below stndard.
18 juniors or developing players
11 c and b graders that is good or consistant core list and very good players.
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jeez ol claw got it pretty right id say. not that anyone around here would acknowledge anything.
Thought you had a pretty mixed bag tbh. Collins is more rough than diamond.
Fair bit of fence sitting in there too. ;) ;D
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Only Cox
You have always loved Cox.
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Only Cox
You have always loved Cox.
As have I
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Appraisal of our players now?
D - Rance
WTF?
He's a poo kick that's why
On your criteria then Morris should be a D.
Morris is a better kick than Rancer
Yeah.Ok. :lol
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Appraisal of our players now?
D - Rance
WTF?
He's a poo kick that's why
On your criteria then Morris should be a D.
Morris is a better kick than Rancer
Yeah.Ok. :lol
Why do you think Rancer is better?
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jeez ol claw got it pretty right id say. not that anyone around here would acknowledge anything.
thought about doing another appraisal for this yr. then thought na. not mentioning names thats for sure. i cant be bothered putting up with the b/s that some little people just have to put out.
let someone else put it out there and defend every word they say.. seems most dont want to hear it and certainly dont want to discuss whats written. just some bare numbers is about all some of you lot deserve. .
3 elite players A graders
12 b/s players or there abouts. below stndard.
18 juniors or developing players
11 c and b graders that is good or consistant core list and very good players.
If you pat yourself on the back too much you will fall over, my old chum.
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jeez ol claw got it pretty right id say. not that anyone around here would acknowledge anything.
thought about doing another appraisal for this yr. then thought na. not mentioning names thats for sure. i cant be bothered putting up with the b/s that some little people just have to put out.
let someone else put it out there and defend every word they say.. seems most dont want to hear it and certainly dont want to discuss whats written. just some bare numbers is about all some of you lot deserve. .
3 elite players A graders
12 b/s players or there abouts. below stndard.
18 juniors or developing players
11 c and b graders that is good or consistant core list and very good players.
If you pat yourself on the back too much you will fall over, my old chum.
lol i have rarely patted myself on the back and i reckon i have had ample opportunity to do so. with so many around here looking for any chance to put the boots in i figured why not on this occasion. besides i wasnt the one who bought the thread back up.
besides any poster who posts stuff that could possibly open themselves up to ridicule should be able point out when they have it right dont you think.
on this site ive already become like most posters on here and am wary of putting anything out there because of the b/s you have to put up with. it doesnt make for a better site or robust debate about our players and club.
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I would not quite claim you a Nostradamus.
You have lacked the courage to rate deledio A grade. If he wasn't at the time he was very close. Tuck is not a below standard player. The sport is about kicking goals. Jack has won two two Coleman's and yet is d grade... Range is a very good running defender. I don't know why you'd think otherwise.
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Only Cox
You forget Sandilands. If he gets on the park, he is near unstoppable in the ruck and a great kick to target. Just not hugely mobile but if he played for the weagles or the bummers or some team more noticable the comp would rate him one of the greatest.
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Only Cox
You forget Sandilands. If he gets on the park, he is near unstoppable in the ruck and a great kick to target. Just not hugely mobile but if he played for the weagles or the bummers or some team more noticable the comp would rate him one of the greatest.
Actually if you think of it, if he'd played his career at the Tiges I reckon he might be in our team of the century. He's definitely better than any of our rucks since 1980, when I began watching footy. But the guy in our Team of the Century Roy Wright is a dual brownlow medalist. so maybe not TOTC
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I would not quite claim you a Nostradamus.
You have lacked the courage to rate deledio A grade. If he wasn't at the time he was very close. Tuck is not a below standard player. The sport is about kicking goals. Jack has won two two Coleman's and yet is d grade... Range is a very good running defender. I don't know why you'd think otherwise.
that appraisal was done in january 2010. so was based up to the end of the 09 season. it was not a futuristic assesment but where i thought our players were at at the time.
i rated deledio as a very good player who had yet to make it to elite. but said he would i dont get the complaint. you say as much above.every feral richmond supporter was calling him elite at the time it took courage to buck the trend not follow like a sheep.
tucky well while critical he is one player i have robustly defended on all richmond sites i have visited.
i have often asked how many deficient players can you carry. tuck has nearly always been one id carry because of his ball winning ability. hes always been required because of the lack of big bodied inside mids .
in 09 the number of turn over merchants including tucky had ne pull my hair out. i reckon the turnovers outweighed the the good he did. hence the assesment.
parts of tucks game is very good if not elite. other parts have been below standard hence the problems i have had with him. im happy to declare i got it wrong with him in 09 if that makes you happy.
jack kickd 32 goals in 09 and had gaping holes in his game.he was just 20 had played just 40 games and was still a junior and very much in development. he showed heaps but he was far from established and he was a long way from being elite. people were calling him elite and he clearly was not.i stand by my assesment of jack at the time. my comments on where i thought he would get to was not far off imo.
3 yrs on if i were to asses him the outcome would be different jack has developed and improved since 09. 65 goals a season makes him an elite goal kicker.
in saying that i still think him only a very good player because he is poor in other areas of his game. i have a feeling injuries are more the reason for this and expect him to further improve and properly round out his game nicely and become a genuine all round elite player. at age 24 and 195cm jack to me is still a development player. some may argue with this.where is he imo B/A That is borderline very good to elite. i may be being a bit churlish as his primary function is to kick goals and he does that well.
alex rance is just a player. as a defender he fails too often in his primary function and that is to defend. parts of his game are down right ordinary. if i were to rate him today it would be a c rating that is a good player or core list. at age 23 he to me is still a developing player.im sorry if i dont rate him high enough for most.
.
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jeez ol claw got it pretty right id say. not that anyone around here would acknowledge anything.
thought about doing another appraisal for this yr. then thought na. not mentioning names thats for sure. i cant be bothered putting up with the b/s that some little people just have to put out.
let someone else put it out there and defend every word they say.. seems most dont want to hear it and certainly dont want to discuss whats written. just some bare numbers is about all some of you lot deserve. .
3 elite players A graders
12 b/s players or there abouts. below stndard.
18 juniors or developing players
11 c and b graders that is good or consistant core list and very good players.
If you pat yourself on the back too much you will fall over, my old chum.
lol i have rarely patted myself on the back and i reckon i have had ample opportunity to do so. with so many around here looking for any chance to put the boots in i figured why not on this occasion. besides i wasnt the one who bought the thread back up.
besides any poster who posts stuff that could possibly open themselves up to ridicule should be able point out when they have it right dont you think.
on this site ive already become like most posters on here and am wary of putting anything out there because of the b/s you have to put up with. it doesnt make for a better site or robust debate about our players and club.
I agree Claw! :thumbsup
I reckon your allowed to pat yourself on the back sometimes. Not that I do it much myself. :whistle
I like chris knights from Adelaide.
I know he's had some injury concers but hes a decent forward/mid that's got good size. Makes our smalls look like little auskickers in comparison.
He's Melbourne boy too with limited opportunity this year. May want to come home.
I like him.
:clapping :clapping :clapping
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jeez ol claw got it pretty right id say. not that anyone around here would acknowledge anything.
thought about doing another appraisal for this yr. then thought na. not mentioning names thats for sure. i cant be bothered putting up with the b/s that some little people just have to put out.
let someone else put it out there and defend every word they say.. seems most dont want to hear it and certainly dont want to discuss whats written. just some bare numbers is about all some of you lot deserve. .
3 elite players A graders
12 b/s players or there abouts. below stndard.
18 juniors or developing players
11 c and b graders that is good or consistant core list and very good players.
If you pat yourself on the back too much you will fall over, my old chum.
lol i have rarely patted myself on the back and i reckon i have had ample opportunity to do so. with so many around here looking for any chance to put the boots in i figured why not on this occasion. besides i wasnt the one who bought the thread back up.
besides any poster who posts stuff that could possibly open themselves up to ridicule should be able point out when they have it right dont you think.
on this site ive already become like most posters on here and am wary of putting anything out there because of the b/s you have to put up with. it doesnt make for a better site or robust debate about our players and club.
I agree Claw! :thumbsup
I reckon your allowed to pat yourself on the back sometimes. Not that I do it much myself. :whistle
I like chris knights from Adelaide.
I know he's had some injury concers but hes a decent forward/mid that's got good size. Makes our smalls look like little auskickers in comparison.
He's Melbourne boy too with limited opportunity this year. May want to come home.
I like him.
:clapping :clapping :clapping
yep they are pretty quick to rip into ya if ya get something wrong. thing is, it seems those who are quick to rip in arent prepared to put up anything themselves.
just on knights based on form where does he stand atm in rating him. im like you i think he has a lot of good attributes and hes well worth giving a game to. but his form line is not great. based on performance hes in the gun imo. hes had 8 yrs but only really strung two good yrs together and yes hes had more than his share of injuries. other concern is hes had just two yrs where hes played 20 plus games. its no surprise they were his best seasons.
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jeez ol claw got it pretty right id say. not that anyone around here would acknowledge anything.
thought about doing another appraisal for this yr. then thought na. not mentioning names thats for sure. i cant be bothered putting up with the b/s that some little people just have to put out.
let someone else put it out there and defend every word they say.. seems most dont want to hear it and certainly dont want to discuss whats written. just some bare numbers is about all some of you lot deserve. .
3 elite players A graders
12 b/s players or there abouts. below stndard.
18 juniors or developing players
11 c and b graders that is good or consistant core list and very good players.
If you pat yourself on the back too much you will fall over, my old chum.
lol i have rarely patted myself on the back and i reckon i have had ample opportunity to do so. with so many around here looking for any chance to put the boots in i figured why not on this occasion. besides i wasnt the one who bought the thread back up.
besides any poster who posts stuff that could possibly open themselves up to ridicule should be able point out when they have it right dont you think.
on this site ive already become like most posters on here and am wary of putting anything out there because of the b/s you have to put up with. it doesnt make for a better site or robust debate about our players and club.
I agree Claw! :thumbsup
I reckon your allowed to pat yourself on the back sometimes. Not that I do it much myself. :whistle
I like chris knights from Adelaide.
I know he's had some injury concers but hes a decent forward/mid that's got good size. Makes our smalls look like little auskickers in comparison.
He's Melbourne boy too with limited opportunity this year. May want to come home.
I like him.
:clapping :clapping :clapping
hes a gun imo.
Good to know claw, good to know. :thumbsup
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oh dear. still i had to chuckle. lets hope they dont have to use that gun hey.
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Only Cox
You have always loved Cox.
Gagging for Big Cox :bow
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Appraisal of our players now?
D - Rance
WTF?
He's a poo kick that's why
On your criteria then Morris should be a D.
Morris is a better kick than Rancer
Yeah.Ok. :lol
Why do you think Rancer is better?
Not saying Rance is better.Both at the same level when it comes to footskills.
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Appraisal of our players now?
D - Rance
WTF?
He's a poo kick that's why
On your criteria then Morris should be a D.
Morris is a better kick than Rancer
Yeah.Ok. :lol
Why do you think Rancer is better?
Not saying Rance is better.Both at the same level when it comes to footskills.
Reckon Morro's kicking is better than Rancer
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I reckon so too.
Rance's kicking/decision making has improved though. I no longer have my heart in my mouth when he has possession.
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Appraisal of our players now?
D - Rance
WTF?
He's a poo kick that's why
On your criteria then Morris should be a D.
Morris is a better kick than Rancer
Yeah.Ok. :lol
Why do you think Rancer is better?
Not saying Rance is better.Both at the same level when it comes to footskills.
Reckon Morro's kicking is better than Rancer
Would be only a turnover in it.
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I've never seen Morro give it straight to the opposition for an opposition goal. Have seen Rancer do that many times.
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I've never seen Morro give it straight to the opposition for an opposition goal. Have seen Rancer do that many times.
Considering how long Rance has been playing AFL compared to Morro,No doubt you,ve seen more of Rance,s ripper footskills at work.But if you lined up both in a pressure situation and get them to pin point a pass,Both would fail.
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I've never seen Morro give it straight to the opposition for an opposition goal. Have seen Rancer do that many times.
Considering how long Rance has been playing AFL compared to Morro,No doubt you,ve seen more of Rance,s ripper footskills at work.But if you lined up both in a pressure situation and get them to pin point a pass,Both would fail.
Don't know about that Ivan