One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on February 19, 2010, 09:24:34 PM
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Next up is Collo who broke into the side last year before injury finished his season with 8 weeks to go.
What are you expectations for Collo this year and what would be a good year for him?
Career so far:
Games Avg Disp. Marks Tackles G.B In50
2007 -
2008 -
2009 10 19.1 4.4 2.9 8.2 2.9
http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=180
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-richmond-tigers--andrew-collins-1
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This is his 4th year at the club, hopefully he goes without any injuries this year and plays all 22 games. Seems to be a bit prone, osteopubis in 2007 and lost the last 8 games in 2009 due to injury. Seems to have the body weight at 78Kg.
I think he is developing fine. I'd hope he continues to develop into an accomplished mid fielder. I think his marks and tackles are OK. I'd hope he gets more than 20 possessions but more importantly we start seeing them being good possessions.
I wouldn't consider this year a make or break unless he gets injured which might kill his career as he could be just too prone.
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at 78kg hes still terribly under sized. needs about 7kg to 9kg this more than anything is what has held him back and contributed to injury.
hes one i have no doubt about has the tools to be a very good player.
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I like Collo a lot and hope he does really well. He is quick and evasive but in order for him to be able to deliver, our forwards need to get int space early before he runs too far and gets into trouble as he sometimes struggles to find second and third options on the run.
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at 78kg hes still terribly under sized. needs about 7kg to 9kg this more than anything is what has held him back and contributed to injury.
hes one i have no doubt about has the tools to be a very good player.
Many players develop OP from carrying too much bulk.
At 184cm his ideal playing weight would be around 84kg
Simon Black is 186cm and only 83kg, I don't think anyone would say he's underweight
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at 78kg hes still terribly under sized. needs about 7kg to 9kg this more than anything is what has held him back and contributed to injury.
hes one i have no doubt about has the tools to be a very good player.
Many players develop OP from carrying too much bulk.
At 184cm his ideal playing weight would be around 84kg
Simon Black is 186cm and only 83kg, I don't think anyone would say he's underweight
pppffftt hes currently 186cm and 78kg hes bloody scrawny. 85kg would be ideal but boy hes a way from that.
yep i know a few who would indeed say hes underweight.
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oh yeah op is usually developed thru a lack of developing ALL muscles.
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oh yeah op is usually developed thru a lack of developing ALL muscles.
It might pay to consult a medical professional before offering up these type of comments.
An excellent starting reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteitis_pubis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteitis_pubis)
In particular:
Causes
The cause of osteitis pubis is excessive physical strain on the pubic bone, usually caused by the increasing rigorous demands of competitive sport, particularly soccer and football. In such sports, actions such as running, jumping, kicking and rapid changes of direction cause the abdominal and groin muscles to exercise a pulling or traction force on the pubic bone, which in some cases can result in excessive stress and inflammation. In Australian football this risk is increased by repeated jarring of the pelvis caused when players come down from the high leaps required by the game, and also by tackling from other players. This also forces the pain to arise when performing kicking motions.
In the pre-antibiotic era it was an occasional complication of pelvic surgery and in particular of retropubic prostatectomy.
Apart from an incident occurring during rigorous competitive sport or resulting from pregnancy, osteitis pubis can be categorized into two main groups:
Overload (or training errors).
* Exercising on hard surfaces, like concrete.
* Exercising on uneven ground.
* Beginning an exercise program after a long lay-off period.
* Increasing exercise intensity or duration too quickly.
* Exercising in worn out or ill fitting shoes.
Biomechanical Inefficiencies
* Faulty foot and body mechanics and gait disturbances.
* Poor running or walking mechanics.
* Tight, stiff muscles in the hips, groin and buttocks.
* Muscular imbalances.
* Leg length differences.
Or even more pertinent:
Incidence
The incidence of osteitis pubis among Australian footballers has increased sharply over the past decade. There are believed to be three reasons for this:
* The increasing physical demands of Australian rules football. As the game has become more professionalised, with players becoming full-time athletes, such factors as running speed, kicking length, jumping and tackling have all increased, placing increasing stress on the pubic region.
* The increasing hardness of the surfaces of football grounds. Grounds are better drained than in the past, and the game is increasingly played in roofed stadiums in which the grounds receive no rain. Australian football evolved as a winter game played on soft, muddy grounds, and modern surfaces have made muscle and bone injuries more common.
* The increasing demand for size and strength among footballers. This has led young players to concentrate on building muscle mass before their bodies are fully mature. The additional strain that highly developed abdominal muscles place on the pubic bone explains the higher prevalence of osteitis pubis on young players. Some develop the condition while still playing school-level football.
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As one astute poster on here noted Collins must be able to be an absolute attacking gun while at the same time being an absolute gun defensive player and that while attacking is not allowed to be caught out in his defensive responsibilities. I think both of these Collo's should be able to build on last year and the best thing is they only count as one player :)
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Thanks for that smokey. I've mentioned on here a couple of times the dangers of young blokes bulking up too much before their bodies mature in reply for the cries of some people to see skinny kids turn into muscle men overnight.
I never really knew much about OP and it's causes, but;
"This has led young players to concentrate on building muscle mass before their bodies are fully mature. The additional strain that highly developed abdominal muscles place on the pubic bone explains the higher prevalence of osteitis pubis on young players."
is pretty much the sort of thing that I was referring to, but more so in relation to the upper body - shoulders etc. Something that I learned 20 odd years ago.
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18-22 games.
No injuries
Consistency.
Take his game higher and become an important part of his midfield.
Show some defensive qualities
Better decision making.
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at 78kg hes still terribly under sized. needs about 7kg to 9kg this more than anything is what has held him back and contributed to injury.
hes one i have no doubt about has the tools to be a very good player.
Many players develop OP from carrying too much bulk.
At 184cm his ideal playing weight would be around 84kg
Simon Black is 186cm and only 83kg, I don't think anyone would say he's underweight
pppffftt hes currently 186cm and 78kg hes bloody scrawny. 85kg would be ideal but boy hes a way from that.
yep i know a few who would indeed say hes underweight.
I understand he's still underweight, but to think he requires another 7-9kg is wrong. Also putting it all on in one go can lead to other potentially career affecting injuries.
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I was hoping to see him hit the 80+ Kg mark for 2010 but that hasn't happened
So..........ummmmmmm.....
I tihnk it is actually going to be an interesting year for young Andy as there seems to be alot of blokes competing for the same roles (which is a good thing BTW).
His lack of size continues to be a worry for mine
I reckon 15 odd games and nil injuries would be a reasonable return IMV
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I was hoping to see him hit the 80+ Kg mark for 2010 but that hasn't happened
So..........ummmmmmm.....
I tihnk it is actually going to be an interesting year for young Andy as there seems to be alot of blokes competing for the same roles (which is a good thing BTW).
His lack of size continues to be a worry for mine
I reckon 15 odd games and nil injuries would be a reasonable return IMV
I hardly consider a players weight listing on the club website to be the definitive answer on his playing weight anyway. Obviously it will contantly fluctuate, we don't know when the measurement was taken and updated and chances are its not right anyway. Given its preseason it should still be going up.
They had a competition on Nova to guess Ben Cousin's weight last year and it was a few kg off what was up on the website. It was even a fair bit off what Ben said his usual playing weight is during the season.
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oh yeah op is usually developed thru a lack of developing ALL muscles.
It might pay to consult a medical professional before offering up these type of comments.
An excellent starting reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteitis_pubis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteitis_pubis)
In particular:
Causes
The cause of osteitis pubis is excessive physical strain on the pubic bone, usually caused by the increasing rigorous demands of competitive sport, particularly soccer and football. In such sports, actions such as running, jumping, kicking and rapid changes of direction cause the abdominal and groin muscles to exercise a pulling or traction force on the pubic bone, which in some cases can result in excessive stress and inflammation. In Australian football this risk is increased by repeated jarring of the pelvis caused when players come down from the high leaps required by the game, and also by tackling from other players. This also forces the pain to arise when performing kicking motions.
In the pre-antibiotic era it was an occasional complication of pelvic surgery and in particular of retropubic prostatectomy.
Apart from an incident occurring during rigorous competitive sport or resulting from pregnancy, osteitis pubis can be categorized into two main groups:
Overload (or training errors).
* Exercising on hard surfaces, like concrete.
* Exercising on uneven ground.
* Beginning an exercise program after a long lay-off period.
* Increasing exercise intensity or duration too quickly.
* Exercising in worn out or ill fitting shoes.
Biomechanical Inefficiencies
* Faulty foot and body mechanics and gait disturbances.
* Poor running or walking mechanics.
* Tight, stiff muscles in the hips, groin and buttocks.
* Muscular imbalances.
* Leg length differences.
Or even more pertinent:
Incidence
The incidence of osteitis pubis among Australian footballers has increased sharply over the past decade. There are believed to be three reasons for this:
* The increasing physical demands of Australian rules football. As the game has become more professionalised, with players becoming full-time athletes, such factors as running speed, kicking length, jumping and tackling have all increased, placing increasing stress on the pubic region.
* The increasing hardness of the surfaces of football grounds. Grounds are better drained than in the past, and the game is increasingly played in roofed stadiums in which the grounds receive no rain. Australian football evolved as a winter game played on soft, muddy grounds, and modern surfaces have made muscle and bone injuries more common.
* The increasing demand for size and strength among footballers. This has led young players to concentrate on building muscle mass before their bodies are fully mature. The additional strain that highly developed abdominal muscles place on the pubic bone explains the higher prevalence of osteitis pubis on young players. Some develop the condition while still playing school-level football.
cheers for that. im sure i read somewhere that op occurs due to the neglect to build up small mimor muscles while building up the larger ones. im always pleased to learn something and be shown the error of my ways.
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at 78kg hes still terribly under sized. needs about 7kg to 9kg this more than anything is what has held him back and contributed to injury.
hes one i have no doubt about has the tools to be a very good player.
Many players develop OP from carrying too much bulk.
At 184cm his ideal playing weight would be around 84kg
Simon Black is 186cm and only 83kg, I don't think anyone would say he's underweight
pppffftt hes currently 186cm and 78kg hes bloody scrawny. 85kg would be ideal but boy hes a way from that.
yep i know a few who would indeed say hes underweight.
I understand he's still underweight, but to think he requires another 7-9kg is wrong. Also putting it all on in one go can lead to other potentially career affecting injuries.
sheesh where did i say he needs to put it all on in one go. i made an observation that for a bloke who stands at 186cm at 78 kg hes still well under weight.his size is one reason why development has been slow. im sure if most people look at him they would agree.
7kg would get him to 85kg for an onballer he will need every bit of it. i loosly base the 7 to 9 kg comments on roughly what the majority of other players in the comp at his height weigh. and yep there are some in development just as light as collins.
as you say in a few yrs time, i would be happy if hes at 85kg give or take a couple kg.
it may be that hes just rangy and will never get to 85 but he needs to get as big as he can. if its 82kg so be it,its got to be better than 78kg.
im not criticising the kid far from it i have said for a couple yrs now he will be a very good player. close to 7kg will help him become that very good player.
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at 78kg hes still terribly under sized. needs about 7kg to 9kg this more than anything is what has held him back and contributed to injury.
hes one i have no doubt about has the tools to be a very good player.
Many players develop OP from carrying too much bulk.
At 184cm his ideal playing weight would be around 84kg
Simon Black is 186cm and only 83kg, I don't think anyone would say he's underweight
hmm what are we debating here ? a couple of kg give or take. if 84 is ideal that is 6kg to gain. id take that.
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I'll be totally honest, i don't expect much from Andrew. Although he surpast all my expertations this year. I've seen a bit of him and think he will be gone by seasons end or mayby one more. Not being negative but just don't think he will make it long term. More than happy to be wrong! :pray
Next....
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I was hoping to see him hit the 80+ Kg mark for 2010 but that hasn't happened
So..........ummmmmmm.....
I tihnk it is actually going to be an interesting year for young Andy as there seems to be alot of blokes competing for the same roles (which is a good thing BTW).
His lack of size continues to be a worry for mine
I reckon 15 odd games and nil injuries would be a reasonable return IMV
actually your comments sort of got me thinking.
the weights dept at richmond has copped a hell of a lot of criticism for failure to bulk up our players. and yep i have to put my hand up ive been one of the most critical probably.
ive lamented a lack of size across the board for many yrs now and when one compares us across the boerd to a team like geelong we are smaller.
what has got me going though is the majority of players on the list last yr were up near ideal weight.
it was only a small core of players who constanly failed to get to ideal weight or close to it.
it was only mcguane, moore, thursfield, mcmuffin,edwards,jon, and collins who really failed to dramatically bulk up. the questions i ask is was it failure by the club or were these players of a type that were never going to dramatically bulk up and probably were always going to be a bit on the light side.
nearly every other player from last yr had a height to weight ratio comparable with most other players at other clubs at a similar height. i will say though it seems we take longer to bulk our players than other clubs. weather this is a misconception im not sure.
what i am now asking is. was all the criticism the weights dept copped justified.
i think some criticism was justified but were that as bad as supporters believe.
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Good balance and looks the part but his disposal is a little patchy IMO.
Definitely needs more weight.
Big year for Andy coming up and will decide his future.
For a 4th year outside midfielder you'd expect at least 15 games and 20 possessions pg.
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Collo is becoming a bit of a goalkicking midfielder - 6 goals in his past 3 games and has average 17 possessions this year from 8 matches.
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certainly is being developed the right way now, looked good last night & is getting his own ball :thumbsup
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Very pleasing to see him put his body on the line last night
Good game :clapping
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Best game for a while actually, but IMO he still thinks he has all the time in the world on his side, he needs to stop second guesing and get rid of the ball in the first in the first instance!!
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If think,WAT he needs to learn when he needs to dispose of the ball quickly and when he can take a risk. I don't mind players taking the game on and it will take time to learn when not to and when to. This means sometimes they will make mistakes but thats OK, as long as they learn from it.
40 meters out pretty much straight in front with a wall of opposition back men encroaching is definitely a time to put boot to ball quickly, but as i said hopefully he will learn from things like that
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If think,WAT he needs to learn when he needs to dispose of the ball quickly and when he can take a risk. I don't mind players taking the game on and it will take time to learn when not to and when to. This means sometimes they will make mistakes but thats OK, as long as they learn from it.
40 meters out pretty much straight in front with a wall of opposition back men encroaching is definitely a time to put boot to ball quickly, but as i said hopefully he will learn from things like that
That is dead right Al, exactly what I mean.. :thumbsup
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Collo wasn't having a huge game before he got flattened but inspiring stuff from him to come back on and kick our last two goals to win the game. Even taking the hit set up Newy's goal. He's become a handy goalkicking mid/HFFer over the past month. Way to go Collo :clapping
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Richmond's Collins learns fast
SAM LIENERT
July 4, 2010 - 8:04PM
Richmond youngster Andrew Collins says a knock to the head might have helped him produce the late goal-kicking heroics which delivered the Tigers an upset win over Sydney.
Collins kicked the final two goals as the Tigers came from 33 points down to notch a stirring four-point win at the MCG on Sunday
Minutes earlier, a head clash with Swans defender Lewis Roberts-Thomson knocked him out and the groggy forward had to be helped to the bench by trainers.
But coach Damien Hardwick said as soon as he got there, he demanded to return.
"He came off and then went straight to the board man and me and said 'I'm right'," Hardwick said.
"I said: 'You've just been carried off the ground, you dill'.
"But to his credit, he's a kid who puts his body in, he's not a big boy, but he went back on and took that fantastic mark on the goal line, which is terrific."
Collins' first of two match-winning goals came from a mark 30m out, and he admitted it had been no certainty.
"I hadn't been kicking set shots that well this week at training, so I was a little bit nervous, but I spoke to my old man last night about goal kicking," he said.
"He said just get your mind ready to go back and just say to yourself 'You'll kick this' and it just worked out alright."
He gave the Tigers the lead less than three minutes later, after marking at the back of a goalsquare pack.
Before those late majors he had just one goal for the game but said the head knock might have changed his mindset for the better.
"It probably helped me a bit, to be honest, put me in a bit of a different space," he said.
"For about 30 or 40 seconds you just get in a different headspace, I was knocked out a bit cold, but then you eventually come good."
Collins said the victory added to the squad's burgeoning belief and was sweeter given the Swans had dominated them in recent seasons.
"We built this one up as a little bit of a final for us," he said.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/richmonds-collins-learns-fast-20100704-zvrc.html
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The marks he took in final quarter were impressive
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He plays a fair bit taller than the 184-186cm he's listed in various places. Must be the long arms. Either way he'll be a difficult one to match up because he can mark overhead, has a fair bit of pace to him, good at ground level and can improvise a little something out of nothing. Good to have in the mix.
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Resurgent Tigers keep the lid on
richmondfc.com.au
By Mic Cullen
Tue 13 July, 2010
RICHMOND forward Andy Collins says the Tigers aren't get ahead of themselves, despite a month of winning football.
After losing their first nine matches, the Tigers have turned their season around, winning five of their last six matches. The only loss in that period has been to flag fancies St Kilda.
The last four wins have been in succession, the last two scalps being top-eight teams in Sydney Swans and Fremantle.
Considering the dramatic turnaround, the Tigers could be excused for getting a bit carried away, but Collins says the side is firmly grounded.
"We have come a fair way, but look, we're not getting ahead of ourselves at all; we're just trying to play each week," he said at Punt Rd on Tuesday morning.
"Obviously, that's the next step for us - if we were non-competitive against a top-four side it would take a bit of polish off the last month of footy.
"We were excited to get the result, but for the rest of the season - as we keep saying - we haven't changed anything from rounds one to nine, we've just been trying to keep going down the same path with our gameplan that we're learning.
"It was very exciting to beat Freo, but we just hope to keep trying to master our gameplan and our structures."
The 21 year old, who has played 10 games this year, said he hoped Ben Cousins to be back into the side this week after being omitted last week after spending a day in in intensive care due to a prescription drug mishap.
Collins - who started life as a midfielder before slotting in to his current role as a small forward - said Cousins had been a mentor to him as one of the younger players at the club.
"I'm not sure what the match committee are going to do, but I'd be very hopeful that he'd be out there with us - I think he deserves to be and we walk taller when he's with us.
"He's been really good - obviously starting out in the midfield he's been huge for me.
"He gives me a lot of advice, just on how to prepare myself, he's great with his food intake, all sorts of things preparing for a game of footy.
"He's been a star, and we look up to him so much, it's great having him out on the field with us."
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/blogarticle/tabid/14215/newsid/98102/default.aspx