One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Stripes on April 25, 2010, 10:54:32 AM
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I know very little about the NRL or rugby in general and off field organization structure in particular. I believe they don't have a overall ruling board like the AFL has but I'm not sure about this.
So what are the differences and why do they seem to be continually shooting themselves in the foot?
Stripes
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NRL does have a board, there was an article about them approving the Storm penalties during the week.
I'm going to laugh so hard if this punishment kills the RL presence in Melbourne and Slater Inglis (plus Folau) all switch to AFL.
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NRL does have a board, there was an article about them approving the Storm penalties during the week.
I'm going to laugh so hard if this punishment kills the RL presence in Melbourne and Slater Inglis (plus Folau) all switch to AFL.
Bigger chance of them switching to union than AFL. With the Rebels starting up next year, really puts them in the drivers seat on this occasion.
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Pretty sure Inglis & Folau were asked about if they'd thought about a switch to AFL when Karmichael Hunt signed for GC17 and neither ruled it out, from memory one or both even said they'd thought about it.
Depends if they want the challenge of switching to a completely different sport and making far more money to do so. Alternatively they could play Union and possibly play for Australia and in World Cups.
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The AFL is streets ahead of the NRL in terms of professionalism and foresight. AFL is genuinely committed to expansion whereas the NRL thinks setting up a team in Brisbane's west/south is a major step forward (which is what they're planning now).
I'd agree with you Infamy, my gut feel is that rugby union could be the major beneficiary. I'm a union man - played the game growing up, and I can't believe the timing on this one for the Rebels. With a world cup in 2011, we've had gasnier going nicely in Europe and apparently he's coming back to Australia for the S15, Will Chambers is going okay at the Reds, plus I read in the paper this morning that Folau is giving the Rebels some serious thought. Now add Inglis or Cronk (who grew up playing union) and I think the Wallabies are going to have some depth in time.
Of the storm boys playing AFL, I think Slater's the one who would probably have the all-round footskills and hands to make it but he's 26 and it'll take a good 2 years for anyone to transition I reckon - no matter how talented you are. I know Inglis & Folau are still in their early 20s but I'm not sold on their kicking. It's a rarely used skill for outside backs in League and you'd need to be an elite league kick to be an okay AFL kick in my books. Cronk, maybe... pretty slow though - remember they've got to run 20km a game instead of 8km.
Karmichael Hunt's going to be interesting to watch. He grew up playing union in Brissie as a flyhalf/fullback which means he would've kicked a lot, so it'll be a much more natural transition skill-wise.
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Depends if they want the challenge of switching to a completely different sport and making far more money to do so. Alternatively they could play Union and possibly play for Australia and in World Cups.
...play for Australia and in World Cups and make far more money than in AFL (in Japan and France). Unfortunately the AFL is small fry on a world scale. The French rugby salary cup is > twice the AFL salary cap, is shared between less players and it is only one competition of many. French rugby = $AU15m, AFL = $AU7m, NRL = $AU 4.7m. AFL squad > Rugby Union Squad > Rugby League Squad. Shorter seasons in o/s rugby, more money in o/s rugby, the only reason for the likes on Inglis and Slater going to AFL is if as you say they really want a challenge or if they want to set themselves up in an image marketing sense for when their career is over.
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Either way, I'd love to see all the superstars walk out of NRL after these penalties handed to the Storm. The NRL over reacted so much, they deserve a backlash.
Don't get me wrong, as a sport lover in Melbourne I do support the Storm, have been to games and watch them on tv whenever they are actually shown on tv, so part of me doesn't want to see them leave, but I just want to see the NRL as a whole punished now.
I'm a Union fan before League though thanks to my dad who's English and played as a kid. Still have fond... well not so fond memories of paying $1000 per ticket to get to the World Cup final in Sydney and being right in front of Taquri as he dropped the ball right before the try line in extra time, only to see Johnny stuffing Wilkinson kick the field goal in the next run of play.
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Depends if they want the challenge of switching to a completely different sport and making far more money to do so. Alternatively they could play Union and possibly play for Australia and in World Cups.
...play for Australia and in World Cups and make far more money than in AFL (in Japan and France). Unfortunately the AFL is small fry on a world scale. The French rugby salary cup is > twice the AFL salary cap, is shared between less players and it is only one competition of many. French rugby = $AU15m, AFL = $AU7m, NRL = $AU 4.7m. AFL squad > Rugby Union Squad > Rugby League Squad. Shorter seasons in o/s rugby, more money in o/s rugby, the only reason for the likes on Inglis and Slater going to AFL is if as you say they really want a challenge or if they want to set themselves up in an image marketing sense for when their career is over.
Oh I absolutley understand the money they can make overseas, but thats if they want to move overseas to do it, they've had that option to do it already. The most money in Australian sport is made by AFL players, with perhaps the exception of cricket if you play in both one day & tests or if you get selected for the Australian Wallabies.
The average salary for a senior AFL player is around $250-300k per year (if you take our rookies plus 1st & 2nd year draftees on fixed salaries). Slater and Inglis are only getting $400k per year as the elite players in their entire competition and would get more than that if they made the move to AFL. Just look at Hunt getting $1m per season.
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Either way, I'd love to see all the superstars walk out of NRL after these penalties handed to the Storm. The NRL over reacted so much, they deserve a backlash.
Don't get me wrong, as a sport lover in Melbourne I do support the Storm, have been to games and watch them on tv whenever they are actually shown on tv, so part of me doesn't want to see them leave, but I just want to see the NRL as a whole punished now.
I'm a Union fan before League though thanks to my dad who's English and played as a kid. Still have fond... well not so fond memories of paying $1000 per ticket to get to the World Cup final in Sydney and being right in front of Taquri as he dropped the ball right before the try line in extra time, only to see Johnny stuffing Wilkinson kick the field goal in the next run of play.
I grew up a League fan as a nipper up here in QLD, started following footy in about '87 aged 5-6 because my uncles played the game (one of them gave me a Roach no. 8 jersey), but I have to say I much prefer Rugby Union and AFL to League. Union is a very tactical game, probably more tactical and subtle than AFL but that's another argument and when played well (in the southern hemisphere mainly) can be in the same bracket as the AFL in an entertainment sense.
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Union is a much better game than league, I am hoping to see it come back and reestablish itself as the real rugby, League is boring. I find union is actually a good sport to watch too where as league bores me to tears. Union can get you on the edge of your seat. I love those classic battles with the Kiwis, Springboks and even the Poms and Roosters.
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The Reds have taken Union to a new level this year. Exhilirating stuff.
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The Reds have taken Union to a new level this year. Exhilirating stuff.
Thats McKenzie's style. NSW were quite brilliant under him too. he should have got the Wallabies job no doubt.
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I am loving watching the storm demolish the opposition after the week they've had1
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The Reds have taken Union to a new level this year. Exhilirating stuff.
Thats McKenzie's style. NSW were quite brilliant under him too. he should have got the Wallabies job no doubt.
Maybe - I'm not unhappy with Deans though.
To be honest Australian rugby needs Mackenzie at Queensland, not just now but for a while to come. Look at the last 30 years - when the Reds are strong, the Wallabies are dominant.
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The AFL has a draft and League doesn't and thats why the salary cap is so important and therefore rorting it is also so important to acheive an advantage. The salary cap doesn't make a huge difference in AFL, the rich teams outspend the poor teams in off field spending, sports science, medical etc which is not capped.
Also it is impossible to go buy a good player in AFL. Carlton only got Judd because they finished last. Richmond got Ben Cousins because no one else wanted him. Other than that its impossible to rort the draft as its totally public.
The NRL have got to wake up and impose a draft, its the only sensible way forward, but rugby is run by a bunch of fools so I wouldn't be surprised if they dont.
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I know very little about the NRL or rugby in general and off field organization structure in particular. I believe they don't have a overall ruling board like the AFL has but I'm not sure about this.
So what are the differences and why do they seem to be continually shooting themselves in the foot?
Stripes
To answer the original question, the AFL and the NRL are differentiated in the sense that the AFL runs its own show. The AFL commission makes the big decisions and in that sense they are the custodians of the game and make all the big decisions on the game and its future.
The NRL is 50% owned by NewsCorp and 50% by Telstra if I recall correctly. There has been a big push in Rugby League circles towards getting an AFL style commission. I believe the NRL are sh*tting themselves over a decline in junior numbers and short term decision making.
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The AFL has a draft and League doesn't and thats why the salary cap is so important and therefore rorting it is also so important to acheive an advantage. The salary cap doesn't make a huge difference in AFL, the rich teams outspend the poor teams in off field spending, sports science, medical etc which is not capped.
Also it is impossible to go buy a good player in AFL. Carlton only got Judd because they finished last. Richmond got Ben Cousins because no one else wanted him. Other than that its impossible to rort the draft as its totally public.
The NRL have got to wake up and impose a draft, its the only sensible way forward, but rugby is run by a bunch of fools so I wouldn't be surprised if they dont.
It's interesting though how the NRL is far, far, far more even than any other code. And pretty much the only mechanism that maintains that parity is the salary cap. The only teams in recent memory that built a dynasty had to cheat the cap. Right or wrong - it's interesting.
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Considerable differences between AFL and NRL.
AFL move Heaven and Earth to ensure the clubs in non AFL states prosper whether in draft concessions or salary cap leeway.
NRL pro Sydney and QLD and want to rip the heart and soul out of a club in the non NRL states.
No wonder Demetriou applauds the balls of Gallup and the NRL with sanctions imposed on Melbourne. One less competitor in theory for Andy D to worry about.
Demetriou has salary cap and such under his own nose with Carlton and Judd deals yet he is more than happy to stick his head in the sand and act like Officer Bar Bardy from South Park nothing to see hear people and then allow another change to the current rules to act as a smokescreen to hide the real issues that make the AFL tick.
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State of Origin is good.
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The idea of State of Origin was pinched from the AFL!
From what I vaguely understand their board is made up of self interested representatives from the clubs rather than an independent commission. Interesting what you say tidyman about the ownership by Telestra and News Limited.
On Storm, I have heard reported late last year that News Limited were desperate to sell the ownership of the Storm as the running costs were excessive and they were losing $9 million a year even though they were extremely successful on field (now we know why!). Obviously now no one will bail them out.
In addition League survives considerably more than the AFL on ratings. The ratings for Storm games in Melbourne is abysmal.
Before this blew up, News Limited wants to bundle out of the NRL and have it form an AFL style independent commission with the other clubs putting in the $50 million dollars collectively to help the Storm build to a stage where it can be independent.
Over the next few weeks the Storm crowds will remain loyal. I am more interested in what eventuates beyond this point when reality sets in.
I am only reporting on what I have recently read and the whole scenario seems foreign to me which is why I was hoping to get some people have better understanding of their admin/politics/culture etc to help me understand all this.
The union and oversees incentive is also something I never took into account. Very interesting.
Stripes
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Karmichael Hunt's going to be interesting to watch. He grew up playing union in Brissie as a flyhalf/fullback which means he would've kicked a lot, so it'll be a much more natural transition skill-wise.
Plus he also played some AFL as a junior so he is coming with some skills already in place. The transition for him will be easier than for many others.
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NRL is a poo game.
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The AFL has a draft and League doesn't and thats why the salary cap is so important and therefore rorting it is also so important to acheive an advantage. The salary cap doesn't make a huge difference in AFL, the rich teams outspend the poor teams in off field spending, sports science, medical etc which is not capped.
Also it is impossible to go buy a good player in AFL. Carlton only got Judd because they finished last. Richmond got Ben Cousins because no one else wanted him. Other than that its impossible to rort the draft as its totally public.
The NRL have got to wake up and impose a draft, its the only sensible way forward, but rugby is run by a bunch of fools so I wouldn't be surprised if they dont.
It's interesting though how the NRL is far, far, far more even than any other code. And pretty much the only mechanism that maintains that parity is the salary cap. The only teams in recent memory that built a dynasty had to cheat the cap. Right or wrong - it's interesting.
I didn't realize it was a more even game, I assume you mean ladder finishing position over time. I do know players can move quite easily, there seems no restriction on it and they can sign contracts for a different club mid season (Can anyone say conflict of interest).
How much can a team realistically move up or down the ladder in one season? From last to first? Or only about half way as in the AFL?