One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Go Richo 12 on July 04, 2010, 05:00:41 PM
-
Is that is one of our more courageous victories in recent time? I am anti tanker so i am biased but i believe that win will do more than tanking for earlier picks ever will! Collins' courage in that last quarter, Jacks with the flight mark in the 3rd and his sqaure up instead of blazing away shows just how far we have developed. I am in post victory euphoria at the moment but this win carries alot of weight.
-
Hardwick's reaction when the siren sounded says it all :gotigers
-
Courageous Win - It was true tigers of old spirit "If we're behind then never mind we'll fight and fight and win".
I really thought when we were 33 points down in the third quarter that we were gone for the day, then Lazarus rose from the dead. Everybody stepped up in the last quarter. Cotchin had a blinder all day, Deledio was fantastic and Reiwoldt has got magnificent hands. Well done to all the boys for a great last quarter.
-
What a brilliant win!!! They boys really stepped up a gear in the last. I thought they would surprise this week and they didn't let me down.
Sure a few things went our way but the umps evened that up with some appaling decisions going against us. Apart from our usual standouts in Riewoldt, Martin, Deledio and Cotchin playing great all day, Moore, Gus, Nason, Vickery and of course the man of the hour Collo all had brilliant games. An then theres captain Courageous Chris Newman. The guy is a rock and that goal on the run from 50 was outstanding!!An inspiring captains game if there ever was one. Astbury with 22 possies was also great and boy can Griffiths kick. A great goal and attacked the ball all day!! I've probably mentioned almost the whole team by now but hey we had so many contributors today that in all honesty everyone played well. Even Tambo stepped up near the end with some vital posessions.
Sure there is plenty of room for improvement but hey we just keep moving forward. Any one willing to talk the "F" word yet?? ;D
-
I was using the F word when we were 33 points down!
-
What a game, wasnt going to go today and changed my mind at the last minute.
Great comeback, you could sense all day that we were still a chance. Once we started to run the ball better we really cut through their zones.
Great game from most and what a last qtr from the Skipper!!!!
-
Collins was unbelievable in the last quarter. Should knock him out at the start of every match now.
-
Collins was unbelievable in the last quarter. Should knock him out at the start of every match now.
So we have to knock out Conners after every match and Collins before?
-
What a game, wasnt going to go today and changed my mind at the last minute.
Great comeback, you could sense all day that we were still a chance. Once we started to run the ball better we really cut through their zones.
Great game from most and what a last qtr from the Skipper!!!!
A great captain's game from Newman.
Now who were those posters saying Newman wasn't a captain's whatever.
Captain pee-pee I think was the expression.
:lol
-
I was using the F word when we were 33 points down!
Are you still unhappy that Rawlings didnt get the gig lol .... ;D
-
Hardwick's reaction when the siren sounded says it all :gotigers
Great coach in the making Hardwick and I predict our next Premiership coach, and just to think, some were running a Rawlings for Coach campaign on the forums lol ...
-
I was using the F word when we were 33 points down!
Are you still unhappy that Rawlings didnt get the gig lol .... ;D
Did you have to bring that up? lol! I am glad i am wrong!
I'll never live that down! :lol
-
\
A great captain's game from Newman.
Now who were those posters saying Newman wasn't a captain's whatever.
Captain pee-pee I think was the expression.
:lol
Newman isn't a natural leader but he has grown into the role and is getting better and better.
The advantage of the clear out is that Newman is one of the very few older heads. There's no other older blokes apart from Cuz really who's doing his own job as a real pro. All the young blokes look up to Newman because there is no one else really to look up to. There's so much enthusiasm bubbling amongst the young blokes that a calm and steady Newman is a really good leader for this bunch.
PS. Wasn't captain pee-pee Johnson?
-
Absolutely magnificent win.There's nothing better than being a Richmond supporter....
I think to day we saw cotch step up to truly elite..his attack on the ball especially in that
last quarter was awesome.
-
I was using the F word when we were 33 points down!
Are you still unhappy that Rawlings didnt get the gig lol .... ;D
Did you have to bring that up? lol! I am glad i am wrong!
I'll never live that down! :lol
In the past I have said that we have had worthless wins. Today and the ones before havent been worthless, We have a great young coach, some very good young players ... we should all be happy with whats happening at Richmond now. Theres nothing like seeing the players winning and the supporters going nuts when we hit the front like that. :gotigers
-
What a game, wasnt going to go today and changed my mind at the last minute.
Great comeback, you could sense all day that we were still a chance. Once we started to run the ball better we really cut through their zones.
Great game from most and what a last qtr from the Skipper!!!!
A great captain's game from Newman.
Now who were those posters saying Newman wasn't a captain's whatever.
Captain pee-pee I think was the expression.
:lol
Yeah, I'll put my hand up to that. Pretty happy to eat my words though.
Today Newman stood up when the game was there to be won. :clapping :clapping
-
I hope our recent form shuts up a few of our loser supporters who seem happier when we lose.
We have been playing really well and it's great to see a good old fashioned comeback. Everyone had their part to play and hardwick's faith and confidence in some of the usual whipping boys has been pleasing.
Got Freo next week, so yet another challenge. Let's hope we get through today unscathed and we can have a red hot at the WA Anchor boys.
-
The thing that pleased me was that we actually stuck with our game until it a few things turned in our favour.
Sydney were trying to bore everyone to death and bottle it up as they usually do, and it worked for the 2nd and 3rd quarters but when we got our chance we actually swung the momentum of the game. In the past like Jack R said after the game we would have given up long ago.
Every week someone steps up and hints they might play 150-200 games and this week it was Mitch Farmer. I thought he was terrific and his long kicking is a massive plus for us.
The umpires were terrible and with Sydney on almost very occasion.
-
We should win next week, we play an interstate team and they are our bunnies this year!
-
We should win next week, we play an interstate team and they are our bunnies this year!
I think we will win as well ... them losing Barlow will have some effect on there players .... we are at home. We can win by 3 goals IMHO.
-
The thing that pleased me was that we actually stuck with our game until it a few things turned in our favour.
Sydney were trying to bore everyone to death and bottle it up as they usually do, and it worked for the 2nd and 3rd quarters but when we got our chance we actually swung the momentum of the game. In the past like Jack R said after the game we would have given up long ago.
Every week someone steps up and hints they might play 150-200 games and this week it was Mitch Farmer. I thought he was terrific and his long kicking is a massive plus for us.
The umpires were terrible and with Sydney on almost very occasion.
totally agree on the umpire point of view, and was so rapt that their stinking game plan didnt win out in the end....great game, great win!!!
man and his 3 boys in front of me, obviously a little hard up moneywise, great kids, loving every minute and tigers through and through, cost dad a lot of money he probably didnt have to spare, the youngest ended up getting Kingys football, just capped the day right off for me ;D :gotigers
-
I was using the F word when we were 33 points down!
I only used that one when the umpires were involved lol
-
That's the one I wanted, dont be surprised from here on! Umpires r carp, we are off the bottom and that was FFFFFFAARRKIN AWSOME :gotigers
-
Is that is one of our more courageous victories in recent time? I am anti tanker so i am biased but i believe that win will do more than tanking for earlier picks ever will! Collins' courage in that last quarter, Jacks with the flight mark in the 3rd and his sqaure up instead of blazing away shows just how far we have developed. I am in post victory euphoria at the moment but this win carries alot of weight.
this season there is little point tanking due to the new teams having tapped into so much of the talent. The time to tank was in previous years when we had an old list.
Now with this young group and upcomming draft - good to win games and see players improve
-
yep for better or for worse going into 'management' mode for the rest of the season is not an option, atm we're good enough to win 4-5 more games no problem. But if this time next season after a preseason of hope to build upon (an expected 2010 return of 7-8 wins) we are sitting at say 1-12 i will give it away, I cant, actually I WILL NOT go through another false dawn at the club, i've reached my limit.
Tigers have chosen their path and atm it all looks promising with even supposed crap players like white/king and co playing important roles well, now bloody well go on with it! no more yoyo'ing!
-
I love watching this side play now.
Proud of the effort that they all put in.
Deledio, absolutely brilliant today!! a tough hard game and so polished in most situations
Farmer, amazing what happens when you give a guy a fair crack at AFL. Did some really good stuff today.
Newman, sorry for doubting you as a captain. You are awesome.
Solid game by nearly everybody.
Tambling, have a rest or play in the reserves. Is this guy going to be in a yellow and black jumper next year?
-
Inspirational stuff.
Collo like Francis Bourke at Arden St all those years ago carving out his own niche.
Riewoldt great same with Martin Cotch and was impressed with Astbury heaps today.
Cousins today was f awesome. Started scratchily but his on field leadership was something to behold in that last quarter IMHO. Want to see him at the club next year he is over this injuries and repaying the faith the club has shown him whilst sticking it up to his knockers.
Last quarter noise was like the Brisbane game at the Dome in 2008.
This was no meaningless win to me. Yeah we could do with a few early picks but how can put a price on what we saw from the cubs today. The psyche of the club is changing folks and as Cuz said after the Brisbane win the baby steps are the best steps. We saw it on TV two weeks ago but those at the ground experiences it today. I know I may be emotive and passionate right now but this is what footy is all about.
Supporters feeling proud about their footy club and the club giving their all from the boot studder to the trainer. Just watching the replay on foxtel now. Time will tell but the I am optimistic the Richmond Revolution is underway. :pray
-
The umpires were terrible and with Sydney on almost very occasion.
Does anyone have a definitive explanation of the holding the ball rule? It seems when we tackle opposition players and they dispose of the ball incorrectly it gets allowed yet when we are tackled its instantly penalised if the ball pops out, are other people noticing this or is it just me?
-
yep for better or for worse going into 'management' mode for the rest of the season is not an option, atm we're good enough to win 4-5 more games no problem. But if this time next season after a preseason of hope to build upon (an expected 2010 return of 7-8 wins) we are sitting at say 1-12 i will give it away, I cant, actually I WILL NOT go through another false dawn at the club, i've reached my limit.
Tigers have chosen their path and atm it all looks promising with even supposed crap players like white/king and co playing important roles well, now bloody well go on with it! no more yoyo'ing!
While i largley agree with you TM, we cant expect this young squad to keep this intensity up for every game for the rest of the season. I can see us unfortuntely dropping a few of the games we are expected to win.
-
Does anyone have a definitive explanation of the holding the ball rule? It seems when we tackle opposition players and they dispose of the ball incorrectly it gets allowed yet when we are tackled its instantly penalised if the ball pops out, are other people noticing this or is it just me?
Yeah we couldn't win on that one.
The one the commentators raised was with Jake King. He gets ridden to the ground no free kick, and not 2 mins later he tackles Jude Bolton in the exact same fashion and Bolton goes down like he was shot and the whistle blows. Kingy can't win, yes his image is as a dirty prik, but every match should be a clean slate.
They were in our back every contest and we hardly got a thing.
1. Rules committee stop changing the rules every year
2. Giesch stop changing the interpretation of the rules every fortnight
and we might have a decent idea of what to expect. I seriously would have given footy a rest for a few weeks after today if we had have lost after that umpiring performance.
-
yep for better or for worse going into 'management' mode for the rest of the season is not an option, atm we're good enough to win 4-5 more games no problem. But if this time next season after a preseason of hope to build upon (an expected 2010 return of 7-8 wins) we are sitting at say 1-12 i will give it away, I cant, actually I WILL NOT go through another false dawn at the club, i've reached my limit.
Tigers have chosen their path and atm it all looks promising with even supposed crap players like white/king and co playing important roles well, now bloody well go on with it! no more yoyo'ing!
This is where Hardwick will show if he will succeed or not. The likes of King and White and Jackson cant be long term players at Richmond if we are to be a real success. Hardwick needs to delist or trade another 10 players this year and bring in more youngsters through the draft.
-
Fantastic win when all was against the players.
Umpires :banghead dont even make me start they were Sydney supporters. Umpire #13 you need sacking
l'm off to celebrate cya's next weekend ;D :gotigers
:gotigers
:gotigers
:gotigers
:gotigers
:gotigers
;D
-
yep for better or for worse going into 'management' mode for the rest of the season is not an option, atm we're good enough to win 4-5 more games no problem. But if this time next season after a preseason of hope to build upon (an expected 2010 return of 7-8 wins) we are sitting at say 1-12 i will give it away, I cant, actually I WILL NOT go through another false dawn at the club, i've reached my limit.
Tigers have chosen their path and atm it all looks promising with even supposed crap players like white/king and co playing important roles well, now bloody well go on with it! no more yoyo'ing!
While i largley agree with you TM, we cant expect this young squad to keep this intensity up for every game for the rest of the season. I can see us unfortuntely dropping a few of the games we are expected to win.
I have no problem with that Jacosh, I'm a realist and don't expect miracles, we will cop a few rogerrings along the way. What I won't accept is a repeat of what's been happenning for years now; promise and a 9th finish followed by a complete ballsup the following season for 3-5 wins which just highlighted time and again how fake and worthless the previous season's exploits were. For example 2005/06 10th & 9th on the way up under wallace rebuild, 2007 shocking season reality check 3-4 wins 16th, 2008 9th with a bullet, 2009 locked and loaded turned into a disaster.
If we get our 6-7-8 wins this season which on current form will happen, I will be mighty peeed if we go backwards and get 4 wins next year. Bc then this seasons wins will have been for nothing and another lost opportunity to milk the system. If we go on an win 7-8-9 next year you wont hear any complaints from me bc its a gradual improvement. Jus hope they know what the are doing. No more false dawns, i won't accept another one
-
Tony, Can you see any difference between this side and the sides that delivered the false dawns you mention?
-
Just watching the replay on foxtel and the bit when Collo came off.
One change I have noticed with our players is the selflessness and care shown to a teammate.
At least six players went to Collo after Newman kicked his second goal to help him back onto his feet.
Don't think I have seen that care and consideration for a teammate on field from a Tiger side for a long time.
Regardless of how many more wins we get for the season Dimma has certainly changed the side for the better
and is building a proud team comraderie and spirit. :cheers :clapping :thumbsup
-
Tony, Can you see any difference between this side and the sides that delivered the false dawns you mention?
yes i can al, more youth and to the naked eye more latent talent, finally looks to be structure, team spirit and bond BUT i don't trust my biased judgemnt anymore, I'm sure I would have answered the same for 2008 and again in 2006 bc we had 'just started a fresh rebuild under wallace and back then polo/myer/Jon/Pattison/Tambling were going to lead us out of the mire'. Simply put I have trust issues now :lol and only deal in reality and proven results. i'll sit on it and take a snap shot of rnd 12 next year :gotigers
-
yep for better or for worse going into 'management' mode for the rest of the season is not an option, atm we're good enough to win 4-5 more games no problem. But if this time next season after a preseason of hope to build upon (an expected 2010 return of 7-8 wins) we are sitting at say 1-12 i will give it away, I cant, actually I WILL NOT go through another false dawn at the club, i've reached my limit.
Tigers have chosen their path and atm it all looks promising with even supposed crap players like white/king and co playing important roles well, now bloody well go on with it! no more yoyo'ing!
This is where Hardwick will show if he will succeed or not. The likes of King and White and Jackson cant be long term players at Richmond if we are to be a real success. Hardwick needs to delist or trade another 10 players this year and bring in more youngsters through the draft.
Ramps maybe you are watching a different game to me...but White and Kingy were and have been for a few weeks been quite good...as for Jacko not being a long term player for richmond..he has only been there for 7 years...I suppose that is not long term...
White together with edwards gus jr8 has taken his game to another level...quite serviceable...Kingy is doing is job...no real clanger turnovers like seasons past...Jacko is a hard nut in the guts and is quite good at his run with roles....
As for list management...we have already started doing it...hislop was put in for his operation...foley is being rested and may not return this year...that is list management.
-
Don't forget a hardness and wiliing to work to the contest, or never dropping their heads.
Until this year I don't think I'd seen a richmond side win a game on sheer guts and determination since Northey coached.
I can see where you are coming from but his isn't on the back of talented or semi talented front running, down hill skiers.
Relax and enjoy the ride :cheers
-
yep for better or for worse going into 'management' mode for the rest of the season is not an option, atm we're good enough to win 4-5 more games no problem. But if this time next season after a preseason of hope to build upon (an expected 2010 return of 7-8 wins) we are sitting at say 1-12 i will give it away, I cant, actually I WILL NOT go through another false dawn at the club, i've reached my limit.
Tigers have chosen their path and atm it all looks promising with even supposed crap players like white/king and co playing important roles well, now bloody well go on with it! no more yoyo'ing!
This is where Hardwick will show if he will succeed or not. The likes of King and White and Jackson cant be long term players at Richmond if we are to be a real success. Hardwick needs to delist or trade another 10 players this year and bring in more youngsters through the draft.
Ramps maybe you are watching a different game to me...but White and Kingy were and have been for a few weeks been quite good...as for Jacko not being a long term player for richmond..he has only been there for 7 years...I suppose that is not long term...
White together with edwards gus jr8 has taken his game to another level...quite serviceable...Kingy is doing is job...no real clanger turnovers like seasons past...Jacko is a hard nut in the guts and is quite good at his run with roles....
As for list management...we have already started doing it...hislop was put in for his operation...foley is being rested and may not return this year...that is list management.
Do you believe that King, Jackson and White can be Richmond Premiership players in the same team? I cant see it! Just my opinion thats all. Of the 3 White has the best chance because of his speed, King has no chance and Jackson is an average player with dodgy kicking skills.
-
This is where Hardwick will show if he will succeed or not. The likes of King and White and Jackson cant be long term players at Richmond if we are to be a real success. Hardwick needs to delist or trade another 10 players this year and bring in more youngsters through the draft.
Jackson already has been a long term player
-
great win by the boys.
finally a win against a full strength Sydney team. About time we did to those pricks what they have been doing to us for years.
Bentleigh is 100% correct tanking is dead and buried. Its now about list management playing the kids and whatever happens happens.
A win like that against "Quality" sides is whats it all about although like TM i will wont start getting excited till i see genuine improvement this round next year.
As usual Jack r took the Honours again. He is a stuffin machine and now he has midfielder mates kicking goals too.
Collins gee what a month he is having and King too. Agree with Ramps he wont be part of a premiership team but his last month has been really good to watch. Close to 10 tackles today i reckon.
Farmer was good still not convinced though
Tambling well he is as s h i t as it gets. Like watching JON Mark 2 that bloke.
-
finally a win against a full strength Sydney team. About time we did to those pricks what they have been doing to us for years.
Bradshaw missing is a big one as it left them very short. Playfair wasn't in the game and it meant Goodes had to spend the entire game CHF.
-
Bentleigh is 100% correct tanking is dead and buried. Its now about list management playing the kids and whatever happens happens.
A win like that against "Quality" sides is whats it all about although like TM i will wont start getting excited till i see genuine improvement this round next year.
:rollin :rollin
gee that's funny because I have been saying for weeks just let the kids play and if we win, we win and if lose as long as we are competitive that's all that matters.
In other words whatever happens, happens and I was called an idiot (not by you daniel :thumbsup)
I was said to be deluded like so many other Richmond supporters because I supposedly over rate our list.
It isn't about over rating the list it is all about these kids and seeing them playing together, winning together and more importantly playing for each other - that's what this year is and has always been about and whatever happens; happens
-
Simply wonderful :gotigers
-
Tony, Can you see any difference between this side and the sides that delivered the false dawns you mention?
yes i can al, more youth and to the naked eye more latent talent, finally looks to be structure, team spirit and bond BUT i don't trust my biased judgemnt anymore, I'm sure I would have answered the same for 2008 and again in 2006 bc we had 'just started a fresh rebuild under wallace and back then polo/myer/Jon/Pattison/Tambling were going to lead us out of the mire'. Simply put I have trust issues now :lol and only deal in reality and proven results. i'll sit on it and take a snap shot of rnd 12 next year :gotigers
good post
the proof will be come seasons end if Dimma does as what he should and turn this list over a little more. if we see a few kent Kingsley type recruites you know we will go backwards.
I actually think this time its different TM but i have said it b4 and get burnt. But Dimma has a plan and thus far has not changed it or moved of course.
THE BIGGEST CHANGE I HAVE SEEN FROM THIS GROUP IS THE DEFENSIVE PART. THE TACKLING, SHEPHERDING, ETC ETC
Unbelievable to see how they tackle now. Been saying it for years get the tackle aspect going the rest will for into place.
Never have i seen a Richmond team tackle more thsan this lot in the last month. Just hope they dont drop off next year.
-
Unbelievable to see how they tackle now. Never have i seen a Richmond team tackle more thsan this lot in the last month.
I know, there like little stuffin piranah, bloody fantastic isn't it.
-
Unbelievable to see how they tackle now. Never have i seen a Richmond team tackle more thsan this lot in the last month.
I know, there like little effin piranah, bloody fantastic isn't it.
Not just the tackling but the one percenters such as shepherds tap ons smothers etc have been so refreshing and part of the on field resurgence we have come to admire.
-
Not just the tackling but the one percenters such as shepherds tap ons smothers etc have been so refreshing and part of the on field resurgence we have come to admire.
Cuz is setting the standard here. Win the ball, give it off, protect the ball carrier. Haven't seen this from a Richmond team for years.
-
Collins was unbelievable in the last quarter. Should knock him out at the start of every match now.
:lol
-
Regardless of the result, I am especially excited about the way we went about our footy today and over the last 5 weeks for that matter. Our team structures, attack on the ball and fight is the stuff that binds teams together and makes them quality teams in the future. If we can just grab a few more talented youngsters to add to the mix to replace retirees and weak links, I think we have the makings of a premiership team here. :gotigers
While I would prefer to finish down the bottom this year, I never want us to stop fighting and playing in the manner we are at present. Love to see Gourdis, Hicks and Browne trialled in this structure and environment too for the future.
Loved the game today :cheers
Stripes
-
Orielly should get a run also
-
Best win since 2001.
We had some good wins in 05 when Browny was on fire....But this beats them all.
lol at all the pro tankers jumping ship.
-
the journey is in full swing, stuff carlton, WE R COMING!!!!
-
Here's 100 pics from the game yesterday courtesy of slatteryimages:
http://images.slatterymedia.com/photography/results/?q=collection:AFL%202010%20Rd%2014%20-%20Richmond%20v%20Sydney&sub_code=all&per_page=100 (http://images.slatterymedia.com/photography/results/?q=collection:AFL%202010%20Rd%2014%20-%20Richmond%20v%20Sydney&sub_code=all&per_page=100)
One happy unit :gotigers
(http://images.slatterymedia.com/images/thumbs/main/212218.jpg)
-
While I would prefer to finish down the bottom this year, I never want us to stop fighting and playing in the manner we are at present.
Can't have your cake and eat it too Stripes. That's what the pro-tankers just don't get - the importance of learning and knowing how to win, how to do the little things that make the difference in games, the things that have set the Sydney and Geelongs apart over the years - the winning 'culture'. You might not like the term 'culture' but it means no compromises, no shortcuts, no second bests from everyone involved - the players, the coaches, the boot studders. You can't have that and tank, and you can't tank and form winning cultures.
-
Can't have your cake and eat it too Stripes. That's what the pro-tankers just don't get - the importance of learning and knowing how to win, how to do the little things that make the difference in games, the things that have set the Sydney and Geelongs apart over the years - the winning 'culture'. You might not like the term 'culture' but it means no compromises, no shortcuts, no second bests from everyone involved - the players, the coaches, the boot studders. You can't have that and tank, and you can't tank and form winning cultures.
:bow :bow :bow :bow :bowT
Agree - great post
That's what I've been trying to say but smokey you say it so much better :thumbsup :thumbsup
:gotigers
-
A very good win. To come back and beat a side that has had the wood on us is a great result. Newman was outstanding. Edwards and Cousins did some fantastic work when it counted. Jack and Collins were very good. For me the most pleasing aspect was that it was a team effort. THe tackling was very good. Important not to get carried away a long way to go but the future is looking brighter.
-
I haven't looked at his stats but I thought it was Mitch Farmer's best game for us yesterday - I'm starting to see some real potential there.
-
I haven't looked at his stats but I thought it was Mitch Farmer's best game for us yesterday - I'm starting to see some real potential there.
Still needs a bit more work than most, but couldn't fault his last quarter yesterday, stood up when he had to.
-
Best win since 2001.
We had some good wins in 05 when Browny was on fire....But this beats them all.
lol at all the pro tankers jumping ship.
lol at the Pro Rawlings for coach jumping ship. goes both ways pal.
i would still prefer to finish near the bottom than 9th or 10th but if we produce results against "quality" like yesterday then im all for it.
-
i would still prefer to finish near the bottom than 9th or 10th
Wow, is this what a real "supporter" wants - to see us stay on the bottom rather than where we really sit on the ladder?
The Richmond players are improving in leaps and bounds.
Can't say the same about some of the long term knockers can we Dan?
-
i would still prefer to finish near the bottom than 9th or 10th
Wow, is this what a real "supporter" wants - to see us stay on the bottom rather than where we really sit on the ladder?
The Richmond players are improving in leaps and bounds.
Can't say the same about some of the long term knockers can we Dan?
I never said they werent improving, read my posts re: Tackling 1%. Never seen a Tiger team more aggressive since the Northey era
Finishing 9th means we are ready to make finals and i dont believe we are yet.
We need to trim down the list and recruit more kids and one more year will do the trick.
i dont want to finish 9th and think we are better than what we are and go down the same path as we have in previous years
As i said until we win games without the help of Jack then i will say we deserve to finish in or near the final 8, but if Jack goes down tomorrow we will struggle to win another game. When Griffiths and Astbury start nailing 2 or 3 goals with midfielders chipping in then we are a complete unit.
-
It was a great win.
The most pleasing thing for me though ;D is reading all the Essendon supporters saying that they should have gotten Hardwick (http://www.bomberblitz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=56826&st=0) and seeing the Demons fans saying that what they really need is Jack Riewoldt!
-
Best win since 2001.
We had some good wins in 05 when Browny was on fire....But this beats them all.
lol at all the pro tankers jumping ship.
lol at the Pro Rawlings for coach jumping ship. goes both ways pal.
i would still prefer to finish near the bottom than 9th or 10th but if we produce results against "quality" like yesterday then im all for it.
I was pro rawlings and maybe matt and few others were too but i guess what we have done is given Hardwick our full support and not slagged him off when things did not good in the first 9 rounds! I am proud to be wrong if you know what i mean? Oh, i believe Rawlings started the process that Dimma is on anyway!
-
Best win since 2001.
We had some good wins in 05 when Browny was on fire....But this beats them all.
lol at all the pro tankers jumping ship.
lol at the Pro Rawlings for coach jumping ship. goes both ways pal.
i would still prefer to finish near the bottom than 9th or 10th but if we produce results against "quality" like yesterday then im all for it.
I was pro rawlings and maybe matt and few others were too but i guess what we have done is given Hardwick our full support and not slagged him off when things did not good in the first 9 rounds! I am proud to be wrong if you know what i mean? Oh, i believe Rawlings started the process that Dimma is on anyway!
now your having a lend of us richo. takingt he pee 100%. :lol
-
I haven't looked at his stats but I thought it was Mitch Farmer's best game for us yesterday - I'm starting to see some real potential there.
Agree 100%. He has taken some time to get there but abviously he has been doing what the coaches have asked him to do every week or he would of not been in the side.
Great win. I recorded it for a change and before the game said "I want to keep this game in case its one for the ages" and it was. 33 point fight backs by a Tigers team, I honestly cant remember when we last saw that.
I have watched a few of the Rising stars from last year and second year seems to be tougher for some of them. This means our results (wins) might not be there next year either but as long as they stick with the plan I think we will be there abouts the year after.
One Happy Old Tiger :gotigers
-
Best win since 2001.
We had some good wins in 05 when Browny was on fire....But this beats them all.
lol at all the pro tankers jumping ship.
lol at the Pro Rawlings for coach jumping ship. goes both ways pal.
i would still prefer to finish near the bottom than 9th or 10th but if we produce results against "quality" like yesterday then im all for it.
I was pro rawlings and maybe matt and few others were too but i guess what we have done is given Hardwick our full support and not slagged him off when things did not good in the first 9 rounds! I am proud to be wrong if you know what i mean? Oh, i believe Rawlings started the process that Dimma is on anyway!
now your having a lend of us richo. takingt he pee 100%. :lol
You are all over me Ramps :lol
-
Bentleigh is 100% correct tanking is dead and buried. Its now about list management playing the kids and whatever happens happens.
A win like that against "Quality" sides is whats it all about although like TM i will wont start getting excited till i see genuine improvement this round next year.
:rollin :rollin
gee that's funny because I have been saying for weeks just let the kids play and if we win, we win and if lose as long as we are competitive that's all that matters.
In other words whatever happens, happens and I was called an idiot (not by you daniel :thumbsup)
I was said to be deluded like so many other Richmond supporters because I supposedly over rate our list.
It isn't about over rating the list it is all about these kids and seeing them playing together, winning together and more importantly playing for each other - that's what this year is and has always been about and whatever happens; happens
And Collo WP??? Have you changed your opinion on him yet? Surely he must be close to making you crack a bit of a smile! ;D
-
Best win since 2001.
We had some good wins in 05 when Browny was on fire....But this beats them all.
lol at all the pro tankers jumping ship.
lol at the Pro Rawlings for coach jumping ship. goes both ways pal.
i would still prefer to finish near the bottom than 9th or 10th but if we produce results against "quality" like yesterday then im all for it.
I was pro rawlings and maybe matt and few others were too but i guess what we have done is given Hardwick our full support and not slagged him off when things did not good in the first 9 rounds! I am proud to be wrong if you know what i mean? Oh, i believe Rawlings started the process that Dimma is on anyway!
now your having a lend of us richo. takingt he pee 100%. :lol
You are all over me Ramps :lol
Just making sure you dont try and lead another revolt against the administration :lol
-
Best win since 2001.
We had some good wins in 05 when Browny was on fire....But this beats them all.
lol at all the pro tankers jumping ship.
lol at the Pro Rawlings for coach jumping ship. goes both ways pal.
i would still prefer to finish near the bottom than 9th or 10th but if we produce results against "quality" like yesterday then im all for it.
I was pro rawlings and maybe matt and few others were too but i guess what we have done is given Hardwick our full support and not slagged him off when things did not good in the first 9 rounds! I am proud to be wrong if you know what i mean? Oh, i believe Rawlings started the process that Dimma is on anyway!
Glad I was wrong...all hail king hardwick
-
And Collo WP??? Have you changed your opinion on him yet? Surely he must be close to making you crack a bit of a smile! ;D
Got no problem with young Collo tiga - think he has some real upside but like all kids he needs to improve on certain things.
The question is how long do you give them to improve?
I actually said to someone this morning maybe he should get a whack to the head before every game as he was a different players (attack on the footy wise) after he was knocked out ;D
-
Great win wasnt it, only found the score out after the game Sunday evening when I phoned the wife. Cant wait to see the replay when I get home.
-
I think we've all waited to see the little things change before getting too excited. We can all see it's obvious that Hardwick has them playing for the jumper and for each other. Even heard Brereton say that on radio the other day.
The little things you notice like the whole team congratulating Jack when he kicked 10, the shepherds which we never saw under Wallace and The tackling. Isn't it great.
Most pleasing is the development. You can see improvement from everyone and yes I have even see an improvement in Farmer. Let's hope it all continues.
:gotigers
-
While I would prefer to finish down the bottom this year, I never want us to stop fighting and playing in the manner we are at present.
Can't have your cake and eat it too Stripes. That's what the pro-tankers just don't get - the importance of learning and knowing how to win, how to do the little things that make the difference in games, the things that have set the Sydney and Geelongs apart over the years - the winning 'culture'. You might not like the term 'culture' but it means no compromises, no shortcuts, no second bests from everyone involved - the players, the coaches, the boot studders. You can't have that and tank, and you can't tank and form winning cultures.
No you can't have your cake and eat it too Smokey - so if we come 9th and our first pick is 16, we end up with a wasted draft and we find the best we can ever achieve is a couple of quick finals visits before dropping back down again - I hope the anti-tankers remember that they thought a couple of extra wins at the end of the year was worth it. :shh
You speak of the importance of learning and knowing how to win, how to do the little things in games and creating a 'winning culture' as the most important steps to our future success. I agree...almost :P I believe the players need to always fight and strive to win and to learn to do the little things but this can be achieved without winning every game. Would you argue that the Hawks game was not he most important game for us this year yet we didn't win. So is every loss a waste or can they be just as valuable to the growth of the players and team as a win? Which was more valuable, the West Coast win or the Hawthorn loss?
A winning 'culture' is not created from winning but from learning and fighting to win. Anti-tankers don't seem to get it - we are developing, transforming and building for a premiership, not a few meaningless wins or even a finals appearance. To quote you smokey - it means no compromises, no shortcuts, no second bests from everyone involved - the players, the coaches, the boot studders, it means focusing on the big picture and wins don't necessarily equate to a winning culture no more than losses makes teams develop a losing one.
I'm as excited about every win this year as anyone, probably more than most for my son's sake, but I want the wins to last and I want us to win a flag and at present we just don't have the cattle to achieve that. We need to draft well and the better picks we get the better our chance of accomplishing this. I'm sick of the yo-yo ladder rises and falls from year to year - I want to be a consistent contender not a consistent under achiever and if that means a few extra loses this year then that's a pill I'm willing to swallow.
Stripes
-
While I would prefer to finish down the bottom this year, I never want us to stop fighting and playing in the manner we are at present.
Can't have your cake and eat it too Stripes. That's what the pro-tankers just don't get - the importance of learning and knowing how to win, how to do the little things that make the difference in games, the things that have set the Sydney and Geelongs apart over the years - the winning 'culture'. You might not like the term 'culture' but it means no compromises, no shortcuts, no second bests from everyone involved - the players, the coaches, the boot studders. You can't have that and tank, and you can't tank and form winning cultures.
No you can't have your cake and eat it too Smokey - so if we come 9th and our first pick is 16, we end up with a wasted draft and we find the best we can ever achieve is a couple of quick finals visits before dropping back down again - I hope the anti-tankers remember that they thought a couple of extra wins at the end of the year was worth it. :shh
You speak of the importance of learning and knowing how to win, how to do the little things in games and creating a 'winning culture' as the most important steps to our future success. I agree...almost :P I believe the players need to always fight and strive to win and to learn to do the little things but this can be achieved without winning every game. Would you argue that the Hawks game was not he most important game for us this year yet we didn't win. So is every loss a waste or can they be just as valuable to the growth of the players and team as a win? Which was more valuable, the West Coast win or the Hawthorn loss?
A winning 'culture' is not created from winning but from learning and fighting to win. Anti-tankers don't seem to get it - we are developing, transforming and building for a premiership, not a few meaningless wins or even a finals appearance. To quote you smokey - it means no compromises, no shortcuts, no second bests from everyone involved - the players, the coaches, the boot studders, it means focusing on the big picture and wins don't necessarily equate to a winning culture no more than losses makes teams develop a losing one.
I'm as excited about every win this year as anyone, probably more than most for my son's sake, but I want the wins to last and I want us to win a flag and at present we just don't have the cattle to achieve that. We need to draft well and the better picks we get the better our chance of accomplishing this. I'm sick of the yo-yo ladder rises and falls from year to year - I want to be a consistent contender not a consistent under achiever and if that means a few extra loses this year then that's a pill I'm willing to swallow.
Stripes
great post and so true in every sense
-
come on, people don't slap their balls on the tables to get em slapped later down the track when they got it wrong, well maybe just once or twice lol. Glad I am such an oracle that I get it right all the time. I wanted to remind everyone how stuffing awesome Deledio was to come back out and play such awesome footy after nearly having his stuffing arm snapped in half and it must of been partially dislocated, I had the same thing happen to me, hurt like all hell, but funnily enough you can use it after clicking it back in. It is gonna be stiff and sore as hell on him later though so he might not be good for a week.
-
No you can't have your cake and eat it too Smokey - so if we come 9th and our first pick is 16, we end up with a wasted draft and we find the best we can ever achieve is a couple of quick finals visits before dropping back down again - I hope the anti-tankers remember that they thought a couple of extra wins at the end of the year was worth it. :shh
Why will it be a wasted draft? Why will our recruiters go from being very professional and very good 12 months ago to being incompetent and useless 12 months later? What basis do you have for saying that because our first pick is #16 we can therefore only ever hope to achieve a "couple of quick finals visits before dropping down again"? If you thought that Sunday's win was not worth it at any level - team, club, sponsor or supporter - then I don't know that you will ever be capable of seeing the positives.
You speak of the importance of learning and knowing how to win, how to do the little things in games and creating a 'winning culture' as the most important steps to our future success. I agree...almost :P I believe the players need to always fight and strive to win and to learn to do the little things but this can be achieved without winning every game. Would you argue that the Hawks game was not he most important game for us this year yet we didn't win. So is every loss a waste or can they be just as valuable to the growth of the players and team as a win? Which was more valuable, the West Coast win or the Hawthorn loss?
The Hawthorn loss was valuable only in the fact that it was a further step in proving the effort required to win and be successful at senior AFL level - it taught our team just how much further they had to go to actually win. We had been learning the same lessons since Round 1 this year and the Hawthorn game was just an extension and further proof of what the team was already well down the path of learning. You can't make the mistake of isolating a win or a loss as the single influential factor, you must look at the season in it's entirety to judge the improvement or otherwise.
A winning 'culture' is not created from winning but from learning and fighting to win. Anti-tankers don't seem to get it - we are developing, transforming and building for a premiership, not a few meaningless wins or even a finals appearance. To quote you smokey - it means no compromises, no shortcuts, no second bests from everyone involved - the players, the coaches, the boot studders, it means focusing on the big picture and wins don't necessarily equate to a winning culture no more than losses makes teams develop a losing one.
Please explain how you can create a winning culture by the club trying not to win? Please explain to one of the anti-tankers that "don't get it" how we can develop, transform and build to a premiership without actually winning games of football? What big picture am I missing by thinking that "wins don't necessarily equate to a winning culture" and that redemption and success will come by deliberately losing?
I'm as excited about every win this year as anyone, probably more than most for my son's sake, but I want the wins to last and I want us to win a flag and at present we just don't have the cattle to achieve that. We need to draft well and the better picks we get the better our chance of accomplishing this. I'm sick of the yo-yo ladder rises and falls from year to year - I want to be a consistent contender not a consistent under achiever and if that means a few extra loses this year then that's a pill I'm willing to swallow.
Stripes
Of course we don't have the cattle yet - we will need to draft another 10 or so recruits this season and probably at least another 8 or so the following year before we have the list that is a genuine chance of winning a flag. But in the meantime it is absolutely imperative that the current list learn to win and to win at all costs. It is stupidity of the highest level to think we can choose to lose for a period of time and then 'stuff the switch' to start winning and watch it all fall into place. When do we make the call to say - ok, we now have the list, let's start winning? It takes a number of seasons for a club to develop a winning attitude and you would have us not work on that facet for the sake of one higher draft pick? Sit back and listen to the screaming masses when we go through another 2 years of 'experimental development' and the realization sinks in that it will take another minimum 3 years to now learn how to actually win a game of football. Newman is gone, Tuck is gone, Foley is gone, Deledio is approaching 30 and the club is still on a learning curve?
I remember some knobnut on here a year or so back preaching the virtues of Worsfold and his tanking strategy of a couple of years ago - how this was the smart way to go about football business and how we at Richmond had no idea. I'm still waiting to see just how this tanking strategy is going to come together for Worsfold - I'm sure it will make damn fascinating watching over the next couple of years as they 're-tank' this year. Is this part of the strategy that the pro-tankers see for us in the near future?
-
This is definately one of the most satisfying wins i can remember being there to see. Absolutely fantastic to see them come back from 33pts down, something i don't think i've ever seen us do before.
-
This is definately one of the most satisfying wins i can remember being there to see. Absolutely fantastic to see them come back from 33pts down, something i don't think i've ever seen us do before.
We come back from a mile behind against the Hawks once! Was it 2003? I think Stafford broke Everit's cheek in a ruck contest!
-
This is definately one of the most satisfying wins i can remember being there to see. Absolutely fantastic to see them come back from 33pts down, something i don't think i've ever seen us do before.
We come back from a mile behind against the Hawks once! Was it 2003? I think Stafford broke Everit's cheek in a ruck contest!
ah yes, for some reason i don't remember that game too well (i was only 9 then, i guess that one just slipped my memory!) also come to think of it, i do remember us coming from 4 goals down in time-on to beat the Hawks in i think '05.
-
Why will it be a wasted draft? Why will our recruiters go from being very professional and very good 12 months ago to being incompetent and useless 12 months later? What basis do you have for saying that because our first pick is #16 we can therefore only ever hope to achieve a "couple of quick finals visits before dropping down again"? If you thought that Sunday's win was not worth it at any level - team, club, sponsor or supporter - then I don't know that you will ever be capable of seeing the positives.
Why a wasted draft? - Well if our first pick is at 16 and our next in the 30s and so on our great team of recruiters are going to have their work cut out for them finding average players let alone the talent we need to inject into our structure at the moment. We don't need average battlers. The recruiters may find some 'diamonds in the rough' but we need more than one or two talents, we need a group of them for as we all know, the star teams are those who bring through a group of similar aged talented players. We can't afford another draft such as the one that brought us through gems such as Hughes, Casserley and JON. The more early picks we have the better our future chances to build together as a team. I think our time to lift is not here yet - we don't have the foundation in place to do it. I think our focus should be seeing who is worth keeping, where they are going to play and what are our strengths and weaknesses as a list.
As much as I loved the win on Sunday, I am trying my best to see past the excitment and euphoria of the present and make the hard decisions that will give us the opportunity to be a top 4 team for years to come. Winning or way to mid-ladder is not what we should aim to be and even if we have the best culture, endevour and structure, without the players that's all we can hope to ever achieve.
If you've read many of my posts over the years Smokey you would know I'm usually very positive, probably too positive and supportive in many ways. I am positive about our future but I think this year we have an opportunity to take advantage of our present position and a couple of wins at the end of the season will only disadvantage this. A few wins does not create a winning culture, the processes/structure and determination to win creates a winning culture.
The Hawthorn loss was valuable only in the fact that it was a further step in proving the effort required to win and be successful at senior AFL level - it taught our team just how much further they had to go to actually win. We had been learning the same lessons since Round 1 this year and the Hawthorn game was just an extension and further proof of what the team was already well down the path of learning. You can't make the mistake of isolating a win or a loss as the single influential factor, you must look at the season in it's entirety to judge the improvement or otherwise.
As far as the club goes, our season began after the Hawks game. A game in which we lost. Reading the Cotchin interview, he said the HAwks game was the single most important game of the season to date...yet we lost. Explain that?
Please explain how you can create a winning culture by the club trying not to win? Please explain to one of the anti-tankers that "don't get it" how we can develop, transform and build to a premiership without actually winning games of football? What big picture am I missing by thinking that "wins don't necessarily equate to a winning culture" and that redemption and success will come by deliberately losing?
Who said anything about the team no trying to win? I want the team to fight for every game. I want the players to fight for each other. I want them to fight for club and coach...but that should not be the clubs number one focus. The future success of the club should be the administrations first priority - not the present. If the selection panel can trial more players, try players in multiple positions and try different combinations then we could lose but we could also find out alot more about the list in a year whenthe win/loss record doesn't really matter.
Of course we don't have the cattle yet - we will need to draft another 10 or so recruits this season and probably at least another 8 or so the following year before we have the list that is a genuine chance of winning a flag. But in the meantime it is absolutely imperative that the current list learn to win and to win at all costs. It is stupidity of the highest level to think we can choose to lose for a period of time and then 'stuff the switch' to start winning and watch it all fall into place. When do we make the call to say - ok, we now have the list, let's start winning? It takes a number of seasons for a club to develop a winning attitude and you would have us not work on that facet for the sake of one higher draft pick? Sit back and listen to the screaming masses when we go through another 2 years of 'experimental development' and the realization sinks in that it will take another minimum 3 years to now learn how to actually win a game of football. Newman is gone, Tuck is gone, Foley is gone, Deledio is approaching 30 and the club is still on a learning curve?
I remember some knobnut on here a year or so back preaching the virtues of Worsfold and his tanking strategy of a couple of years ago - how this was the smart way to go about football business and how we at Richmond had no idea. I'm still waiting to see just how this tanking strategy is going to come together for Worsfold - I'm sure it will make damn fascinating watching over the next couple of years as they 're-tank' this year. Is this part of the strategy that the pro-tankers see for us in the near future?
Stupidity at the highest level :o :P Strong words smokey ;D Is Lids going to take some sort of aging medicine to jump to 30 in a couple of years? :whistle Even Foley and Newman have a few years in them left as far as I know! Geelong was a basketcase the year before they began their march. The media was calling for Thompsons head and the whole rebuilding a failure, then all of a sudden 'stuff the switch' and bang!
Now I don't actually think they did 'stuff the switch' but I do think everything came together it that year. They finally had the cattle, had the understanding of each other and the game plan, grew in confidence and brought it all together. They would not have reached the heights they have unless they had the group of players they have. I think we can do a similar thing if we get the players first.
I think the Eagles will be a great team in the future but their younger stars are not ready yet. I think they will come together in future years but not until their midfield has matured. I hope they don't come together as well as us but you may be eatting your words when teams such as the Hawks, Saints, Freo, Eagles, Melbourne and even Carlskum begin to become powerhouses of the comptetion. I hope I'm wrong there but they made the decision to bottopm out to get the players to develop and if they can develop and educate them correctly then watch out. Do you think GC and GWS won't be successful if they lose in the first couple of years - the AFL vey much doubt it!
Stripes
-
Stripes, your Hawthorn game point is a non-sequitor. Unless you believe that we tried to lose? The point is not the results of the games (ie wins and losses), it is the attitude the club and the players take towards them.
Belief is far and away more important than an extra draft pick. Tanking is a mirage.
-
Stripes, your Hawthorn game point is a non-sequitor. Unless you believe that we tried to lose? The point is not the results of the games (ie wins and losses), it is the attitude the club and the players take towards them.
Belief is far and away more important than an extra draft pick. Tanking is a mirage.
Perhaps you missed this comment I made in the last post (it was rather long afterall) -
want[/b] the team to fight for every game. I want the players to fight for each other. I want them to fight for club and coach...but that should not be the clubs number one focus. The future success of the club should be the administrations first priority - not the present. If the selection panel can trial more players, try players in multiple positions and try different combinations then we could lose but we could also find out alot more about the list in a year whenthe win/loss record doesn't really matter.
I don't want the players to try and lose in fact I want them to try to win. I want the administration though to make the sufficent directions to unobtursively and subtly engineer loses while allowing us in the best position to have a clear undestanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the list and the steps we need to take to create the foundation we need to build from next year.
The Hawthorn lose is important because of the belief that the players obtained from the effort. Wins or loses are neither here nor there, so if we can maintain the belief of the side yet just miss out in some close losses then all the better for our long term future.
Stripes
-
The hawthorn loss is not important because they lost, it is important because after getting flogged it showed that there is light at the end of the tunnel - that everything they were trying to do would get them what they strived for- a win.
How do you control the players playing to win, yet ensure they lose? Do you think players would be happy to try their guts out knowing the club is doing everything to stop them winning?
Anyone that thinks a team can consistently lose without any affect on morale, desire, confidence etc has not played in a side that loses nearly every week, probably have not played footy or any competitive sport at all.
All competitive sport is as much about what goes on between the ears as natural talent. More often than not that is what separates the truly successful from the 'could have beens', not just in sport but in so many aspects of life. A loser mentality will only ever bring one thing - FAILURE
-
How do you control the players playing to win, yet ensure they lose? Do you think players would be happy to try their guts out knowing the club is doing everything to stop them winning?
I think, for example,
Deledio would be more happy losing games by a goal or two early in his carrer with a young team full of 18-20 year olds.
Rather than win a few meaningless games late in the season with a murder of 27+ year old footballer as has been the case in the past - Hyde, Bowden, Simmonds, Graham, Knobel etc. etc.
-
did that answer my question you quoted?
-
Who said anything about the team no trying to win? I want the team to fight for every game. I want the players to fight for each other. I want them to fight for club and coach...but that should not be the clubs number one focus. The future success of the club should be the administrations first priority - not the present. If the selection panel can trial more players, try players in multiple positions and try different combinations then we could lose but we could also find out alot more about the list in a year whenthe win/loss record doesn't really matter.
But stripes correct me if I am reading this the wrong way but you are saying if the selection panel do the things I've highlighted we are going to lose more than we win. I see that is as being the major flaw in your argument so to speak.
The RFC are currently doing what your suggesting and we've started to win.
We've played all but 3 senior listed players this season (McMahon, BrownE & Grimes), they've played all rookies who have been elevated aprt from Gourdis who only got elevated in the last coupple of weeks.
They've tried players in different positions - perfect example Astbury starts as a forward and is now being played in defence
And guess what we've started to win.
The focus has been clear all season, we were told all along that results didn't matter and it was all about development and learning (they call it transformation) but now because the development and what our players have learnt we've started to win.
The focus has not changed one iota since the start of the season and now we are simply witnessing the fruits of all that hard work
It seems to me (and again correct me if I am wrong) you want the focus to remain the same but the results to be different.
I don't think you can have it both ways.
You want them to fight for every game, play for one another, fight for the coach and club but you suddenly want the results to be losses for draft picks
To put it another way it seems to me that you now actually think we should suddenly change course and go out there and lose for draft picks
As I said you can't have it both ways. If you want them out there fighting for everygame then I don't think you put conditions on it
I've said it before we are going to finish bottom 3 or 4, that will get a good early pick considering the conscession to GC17 - let's have some faith in our recruiters that will find us some more gems
-
did that answer my question you quoted?
How do you control the players playing to win, yet ensure they lose?
1. you play a poor footballer on a good footballer, ie. Andrew Raines on Nick Riewoldt
2. you play kids who might be good instead of old players who are average, ie. Simmonds did not play in 2010 and instead we gave Gourdis or Polak or Graham or Vickery or Westhoff more game time so in 2012/2013 they have more games at AFL under the belt
3. you send in players for early ops.
etc.
-
Who said anything about the team no trying to win? I want the team to fight for every game. I want the players to fight for each other. I want them to fight for club and coach...but that should not be the clubs number one focus. The future success of the club should be the administrations first priority - not the present. If the selection panel can trial more players, try players in multiple positions and try different combinations then we could lose but we could also find out alot more about the list in a year whenthe win/loss record doesn't really matter.
But stripes correct me if I am reading this the wrong way but you are saying if the selection panel do the things I've highlighted we are going to lose more than we win. I see that is as being the major flaw in your argument so to speak.
The RFC are currently doing what your suggesting and we've started to win.
We've played all but 3 senior listed players this season (McMahon, BrownE & Grimes), they've played all rookies who have been elevated aprt from Gourdis who only got elevated in the last coupple of weeks.
They've tried players in different positions - perfect example Astbury starts as a forward and is now being played in defence
And guess what we've started to win.
The focus has been clear all season, we were told all along that results didn't matter and it was all about development and learning (they call it transformation) but now because the development and what our players have learnt we've started to win.
The focus has not changed one iota since the start of the season and now we are simply witnessing the fruits of all that hard work
It seems to me (and again correct me if I am wrong) you want the focus to remain the same but the results to be different.
I don't think you can have it both ways.
You want them to fight for every game, play for one another, fight for the coach and club but you suddenly want the results to be losses for draft picks
To put it another way it seems to me that you now actually think we should suddenly change course and go out there and lose for draft picks
As I said you can't have it both ways. If you want them out there fighting for everygame then I don't think you put conditions on it
I've said it before we are going to finish bottom 3 or 4, that will get a good early pick considering the conscession to GC17 - let's have some faith in our recruiters that will find us some more gems
It's funny isnt it WP? All season we have been doing what some peoples misguided idea of what tanking actually is and now we start to win games doing that, which they find disturbing or non beneficial.
-
did that answer my question you quoted?
How do you control the players playing to win, yet ensure they lose?
1. you play a poor footballer on a good footballer, ie. Andrew Raines on Nick Riewoldt
Honestly, if you were playing for a coach that did that, what would you think of them?
2. you play kids who might be good instead of old players who are average, ie. Simmonds did not play in 2010 and instead we gave Gourdis or Polak or Graham or Vickery or Westhoff more game time so in 2012/2013 they have more games at AFL under the belt
Specific examples, from last weeks team and who you would replace them with?
3. you send in players for early ops.
Any one in mind? Which players from last weeks 22 should go in for surgery?
Whoh back! Isnt Polak an older average player? He's definately not a kid who might be good
-
WP - you make a lot of sense without being insulting :pray
Let's face it, whether I want the club to focus on drafting at this stage more than development is irrelevant. The club has put it's faith in the coaches and the players which is beginning to bare fruit. It is something we have not seen at our club for...well I can't even say. I'm genuinely excited about where the team is going and the obvious change in the culture at the club but I fear over achieving. I fear missing out on another group of players such as the ones we have this year. Imagine another player such as Martin in the middle :o but I will just have to hope the recruiters find hidden diamonds because this team shows no sign of losing anytime soon.
If the club wants to ensure we finish lower down the ladder when winning means the differenc between 16th and 13th...well there are some very practical methods without cutting the players spirit and endevour down. When should the players ever know that their club is focusing on the draft more than wins - my answer: Never. I have given plenty of suggests how this could and should be done (as has Bents too :thumbsup) but in the end I can understand why this will never happen.
I am more than happy for the team to win as long as we continue to use this year for what Hardwick said we would - tranformation, experimentation and development. As you said WP, players are being played in multiple positions, almost every player has been given a try on the list and the team continues to focus on the game plan. This is a huge tick for me.
I guess I would like to have my cake and eat it too - drafting and development. I just hope our development and onfield success doesn't hurt our draft chances this year. When TW came in and over achieved in his first year at the helm it hindered our rebuild as it did two years latter when we won some meaningless game later in the year against tanking teams. I'm hoping to avoid this if it means sea-swaing up and down the ladder like in the past. If this lift continues an upwards trend for years to come, then I won't care about drafting at all.
I'm just looking for a little added insurance I guess.
Great points though WP :clapping
Stripes
-
When TW came in and over achieved in his first year at the helm it hindered our rebuild as it did two years latter when we won some meaningless game later in the year against tanking teams.
Our rebuilds were hindered because of our coaching, our development, our selection of draft picks, our attitude, our ability. Indeed, every single little thing not related to the order of the draft picks we had. Stripes, I enjoy your posts and I respect your opinion but if you think that our previous rebuilds were hindered or failed because of the order/number of the draft picks we had then I am truly gobsmacked. You think Frawley or Wallace would have been successful if we had of finished last in those years?
-
Our rebuilds were hindered because of our coaching, our development, our selection of draft picks, our attitude, our ability. Indeed, every single little thing not related to the order of the draft picks we had. Stripes, I enjoy your posts and I respect your opinion but if you think that our previous rebuilds were hindered or failed because of the order/number of the draft picks we had then I am truly gobsmacked. You think Frawley or Wallace would have been successful if we had of finished last in those years?
I think finishing up the ladder hindered our chance of selecting talent but I don't think TW or Frawley would of had the game plan or ability to develop the early picks, to push us into the finals and beyond. The big difference this year compared to the last 10 years is the player development and, linked to that, the simple yet effective game plan.
It could be argued that niether Wallace or Frawley had the support or financial aid to invest properly in player development but from what I have heard TW rarely would actual train the players himself. This is criminal for mine, with a young list. Hardwick and the club has made this priority number one and the proof is in the pudding this year.
Last years draft selectiones was excellent but I think if we had the same focus on development as we do now, some of those failed or underachieving players from the past may of come on. I wonder how someone such as Hughes, Schulz, Rodan or even Putt would have turned out if they had had the same individual education and simple game plan from the start as our current crop has had. What would Tambling and Polo been like? We'll never know but what can not be disputed is that early picks allow clubs much better chance to find the type of players they need to succeed in the future.
Stripes
-
Polak came from 01 draft and is a fair bit younger than Simmo. Ido not think he willmake it as a kpp by might have been handy as a back up ruckman.
As for the current side there is not too much to whinge about. Only king and cousins could be removed and replaced by kids. However both are showing enough at the moment.
My comment in regards to tanking had more to do with what we should have done in early years under Wallace. No due to the fewer talented players in the draft and lack of early picks I am not sure the difference between 15th and 11th will make much difference this time around.
We have to be content with most of current list and hope we draft couple more decent kids. I
did that answer my question you quoted?
How do you control the players playing to win, yet ensure they lose?
1. you play a poor footballer on a good footballer, ie. Andrew Raines on Nick Riewoldt
Honestly, if you were playing for a coach that did that, what would you think of them?
2. you play kids who might be good instead of old players who are average, ie. Simmonds did not play in 2010 and instead we gave Gourdis or Polak or Graham or Vickery or Westhoff more game time so in 2012/2013 they have more games at AFL under the belt
Specific examples, from last weeks team and who you would replace them with?
3. you send in players for early ops.
Any one in mind? Which players from last weeks 22 should go in for surgery?
Whoh back! Isnt Polak an older average player? He's definately not a kid who might be good
-
Even by obtaining a lower draft pick can not guarantee you are going to get the kid/player you want most.
Francis Jackson is talented, I have full faith in him and his abilities.
We have some damn good players here and many more to come.