One-Eyed Richmond Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: 10 FLAGS on February 19, 2011, 04:40:17 PM
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What can anyone say. Simply outrageous the amount of talent this filly has got. She jogged in today and won by lengths - almost walked over the line. Just a remarkable talent for a horse.
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What can anyone say. Simply outrageous the amount of talent this filly has got. She jogged in today and won by lengths - almost walked over the line. Just a remarkable talent for a horse.
9 wins from 9 isn't it and leaving the rest of the field for dead in every race. She could have been our OER shared horse lol.
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Sensational! :bow
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I thought this was a thread about Michael Jordan
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I thought this was a thread about bukkake. :-[
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Make that 10-straight despite the weight :clapping and she will probably make it to another 10 sticking to weight-for-age after today.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/12/3162396.htm?section=justin
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Make that 14 straight wins to equal Phar Lap's record :clapping.
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Amazing horse! :bow
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down the road today.
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Make that 14 straight wins to equal Phar Lap's record :clapping.
It might have the same records as Phar Lap it might even better them but in 20 years if there is another great horse they'll always compare it to Phar Lap.
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Another win :bow
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Make that 14 straight wins to equal Phar Lap's record :clapping.
It might have the same records as Phar Lap it might even better them but in 20 years if there is another great horse they'll always compare it to Phar Lap.
True as we've all grown up with the Phar Lap legend during the Great Depression but just as a racehorse Black Caviar is practically unbeatable.
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I would have beaten that field.
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I would have beaten that field.
Yeap hard to take the result seriously when there are only 4 runners, the favourite gets special treatment in the barriers and it's a 3rd rate field at best
Put it in a decent race that means something please
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I would have beaten that field.
Well lets give you a weight handicap to make it a contest.
Go Big Cho! Go you good thing!!!! ;D
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God that turns me on.
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Black Caviar has received a cult following at race tracks across the country since her debut win in April 2009 and has become arguably the worlds best sprinter with an unbeaten record of sixteen wins to her name.
Australian’s love their sports stars and she has been no exception with tens of thousands of patrons flocking to the race track wearing their salmon and black ties, masks and hats too see her beat her rivals with ease. The extent of this was seen on Emirates Stakes day in which a record crowd of 85,112 witnessed super mare Black Caviar claim 16 race victories from 16 career starts in the Patinack Farm Classic.
With her increasing fame ‘Black Caviar’ merchandise and memorabilia has emerged with connections starting a direct website blackcaviar.net.au and online shop blackcaviarshop.com.au to purchase items such as t-shirts and caps.
The domain name was auctioned on NetFleet.com.au which hosts daily auctions for domain names that previous owners have let expire allows anyone the ability to join and place a bid on a list of dropping names for that day. When notified of the domain dropping discussions on DNtrade.com.au were started questioning who would bid for the domain, but many didn’t expect the eventual winner.
The current extension being used (.net.au) is a less well known alternative of .com.au thus it would suggest the ownership of blackcaviar.com.au would provide a much more memorable and easier brandable URL over what is being currently being used.
Just Horse Racing’s owner ‘Morgan Payne’ contacted the connections of Black Caviar to make them aware of the domain name BlackCaviar.com.au being auctioned today at 2pm due to the previous owner neglecting to renew the domain, although after checking the new whois records we were surprised to see the new owner was in fact the part owner of Black Caviar’s main rival Hay List.
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Won again tonight :bow
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Won again tonight :bow
Makes it 17 straight wins :clapping. Only 2 or 3 more needed to break the record.
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Becoming boring - 18th win lol :bow
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Becoming boring - 18th win lol :bow
If only the Tigers won 18 in a row that it became boring lol.
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Talk they are looking at the Cox Plate in the spring
Great decision if true
Now that would be a contest.
Can I add that I found the Trainers interview on Friday's news showed a little too much "smuggness" for my liking. Probably didn't mean it but it wasn't a good look
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Made it an equalling record 19th win today. The second horse was still with Black Caviar at the 100m so it was the closest any other horse has got.
Black Caviar now off overseas to race.
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Backed hay list when they first met, the cub jinx! Have admired like everyone since but never backed her, too short. I figure if I am staying up until 1 I may as well have a pineapple on her to win 9 bux, let us just see if I actually am the butterfly affect :rollin
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:rollin whoops that was close
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Nolan nearly stuffed it
French wanker reckons he should have won and the Pommy douche said he would have won if he'd made the start ::)
Black Caviar could have won by 6 lengths :lol
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All that matters is she won on their turf to make it 22 from 22 :thumbsup :clapping. Off to Hong Kong next chasing a million bucks if she makes it a win each in 3 different countries. Nolan won't make that mistake again easing off and not looking both sides.
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Smashed the 1000m course record at Flemington this arvo to make it 23 from 23 :clapping.
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Just announced by the owners and trainer Peter Moody that Black Caviar is retiring from racing after 25 straight wins.
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Great career but I have to say she didn't face not much competition for most of it
Last week was a field of reasonable quality but in some of her races, there was no competiton
Pity she was a sprinter and not a stayer would have loved to have seen her in a Melb Cup
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Great career but I have to say she didn't face not much competition for most of it
Last week was a field of reasonable quality but in some of her races, there was no competiton
Pity she was a sprinter and not a stayer would have loved to have seen her in a Melb Cup
Would of been a interesting race if it went up against Frankel while over in the uk.
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Great career but I have to say she didn't face not much competition for most of it
Last week was a field of reasonable quality but in some of her races, there was no competiton
Pity she was a sprinter and not a stayer would have loved to have seen her in a Melb Cup
Would of been a interesting race if it went up against Frankel while over in the uk.
Nup. Frankel would have smashed her. She was carrying significant injuries and shouldn't have run - Moody admitted that he would have scratched any other runner that he has ever trained, he only ran her because of the courage and strength in adversity that she had shown before. If they were both at peak fitness then that's a different story but that day at Ascot Frankel would have belted her.
And I strongly disagree with WP's assessment that she didn't face much competition for most of her career. Not true and very unfair to the best horse anyone of our generation will ever be fortunate enough to see.
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didnt face much competiton for most of it?
what a load of codswollap.
she won 15 group 1 races!
she simply made near every horse she run against look 2nd rate,.
i dont know why people have to try to denigrate what is just a phenomenal effort rather than admire and take in something most of us will probably never see again in our lives.. the tall poppy syndrome is alive and well.
Im glad they retired her, as really they little to gain by by continuing. she retires an undefeated champion, something very, very few have achieved. :bow
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Great career but I have to say she didn't face not much competition for most of it
Last week was a field of reasonable quality but in some of her races, there was no competiton
Pity she was a sprinter and not a stayer would have loved to have seen her in a Melb Cup
Would of been a interesting race if it went up against Frankel while over in the uk.
Nup. Frankel would have smashed her. She was carrying significant injuries and shouldn't have run - Moody admitted that he would have scratched any other runner that he has ever trained, he only ran her because of the courage and strength in adversity that she had shown before. If they were both at peak fitness then that's a different story but that day at Ascot Frankel would have belted her.
And I strongly disagree with WP's assessment that she didn't face much competition for most of her career. Not true and very unfair to the best horse anyone of our generation will ever be fortunate enough to see.
They ducked racing Frankel in May. Who know's what would of happened under different circumstances.
The dream match-up between Frankel and Black Caviar has no chance, after the champion Australian mare wasn’t among 36 entries in August’s Sussex Stakes when nominations were taken last Wednesday.
The possibility of a match race created plenty of interest because Black Caviar and Frankel are undefeated champions who race on opposite sides of the world.
Black Caviar’s trainer Peter Moody had voiced his intentions to prepare the champion five-year old in Melbourne’s spring before travelling to Hong Kong to race in December’s international meeting at Sha Tin.
http://tensport.com.au/news/theroar/Other-Sports-Racing-misses-out-as-Black-Caviar-ducks-Frankel.htm
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didnt face much competiton for most of it?
what a load of codswollap.
she won 15 group 1 races!
she simply made near every horse she run against look 2nd rate,.
i dont know why people have to try to denigrate what is just a phenomenal effort rather than admire and take in something most of us will probably never see again in our lives.. the tall poppy syndrome is alive and well.
Im glad they retired her, as really they little to gain by by continuing. she retires an undefeated champion, something very, very few have achieved. :bow
I'm not talking it down. She is a great horse and made great achievements.
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I am not disputing for minute her record is amazing not putting her record down just have a few question marks
Am well aware of the 15 group races
But to have races with a field of 4 and Black Cavier given a special barrier in the same race by stewards because of a request from her trainer & connections to "protect" her from possible interference from other runners isn't a great look.
For memory that was a group 1 race. Would she have won the race anyway? Yep more than likely so why the special treatment? That's what I mean but when I question the quality of the competition.
Amazing career and one of the greatest but is she the best I've seen?
Have to say no, that goes to Makybe Diva, 3 Melb Cups against the best stayers in the world at the time, she was special a once in a lifetime champion too
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http://tensport.com.au/news/theroar/Other-Sports-Racing-misses-out-as-Black-Caviar-ducks-Frankel.htm
What a crap article, typical of a selfish, ignorant, aussie journo.
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I am not disputing for minute her record is amazing not putting her record down just have a few question marks
Am well aware of the 15 group races
But to have races with a field of 4 and Black Cavier given a special barrier in the same race by stewards because of a request from her trainer & connections to "protect" her from possible interference from other runners isn't a great look.
For memory that was a group 1 race. Would she have won the race anyway? Yep more than likely so why the special treatment? That's what I mean but when I question the quality of the competition.
Amazing career and one of the greatest but is she the best I've seen?
Have to say no, that goes to Makybe Diva, 3 Melb Cups against the best stayers in the world at the time, she was special a once in a lifetime champion too
If you wanted to get a peeing contest you could argue that makybe diva lost races to far inferior horses than black cavier constantly beat, but trying to compare a stayer and a sprinted is pointless, particluarly their number of wins, due to the huge difference in preperations.
Which horse was better ? who knows and who cares. Both are champions in there own right.
Black caviar is a champion racehorse that after 25 races is undefeated with 15 group 1 wins ( i think about 20 group races all up?) Which is just amazing. If you want to be petty you could find results against lesser opponents to drag down any champion or try to compare them to another champion in an attempt to make them seem not so good
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I am not disputing for minute her record is amazing not putting her record down just have a few question marks
Am well aware of the 15 group races
But to have races with a field of 4 and Black Cavier given a special barrier in the same race by stewards because of a request from her trainer & connections to "protect" her from possible interference from other runners isn't a great look.
For memory that was a group 1 race. Would she have won the race anyway? Yep more than likely so why the special treatment? That's what I mean but when I question the quality of the competition.
They're not question marks WP, they are as Al said, a poor attempt at finding small things to go down the Tall Poppy Syndrome path.
The race you mention was the 2011 Schweppes Stakes at Moonee Valley, a Group Two race more famously known in history as the AJ Moir Stakes. A race that has produced a list of top class winners in it's time and that was won only last year by a horse that chased Black Caviar home unsuccessfully on a number of occasions - Buffering. In the 2011 race there were 5 acceptors (1 scratched) and Moody and her connections raised concerns about the antics of the horse drawn outside them with bloody good reason. Here De Angels was a horse with a terrible and long history of bad barrier manners, and had been previously banned in Victoria for it's barrier behavior. At his last start in Sydney (after having had to pass 3 successful NSW barrier trials due to previous bad behavior) he had again been issued a warning by NSW stewards for the same thing. If the incident at the last Sydney start had occurred in Victoria then the horse would have been banned again in Victoria and not even been allowed to run so the connections had every right to ask the question of the stewards. The Victorian stewards asked the connections of Here De Angels if they were comfortable with moving their horse 1 barrier out and they had no problem with it. And the gap wasn't specifically placed between the 2, it was placed to put Here De Angels away from the rest of the field, who were ALL drawn inside him. Racing has a duty of care to everyone involved - horses, jockeys and barrier attendants - and the decision was right, just and didn't not affect the chances of any horse in the race, it actually increased them. Not special treatment, just plain common sense. And a foot note to that - 6 months later Here De Angels was banned for life after AGAIN dislodging his jockey in the barrier stalls!
Amazing career and one of the greatest but is she the best I've seen?
Have to say no, that goes to Makybe Diva, 3 Melb Cups against the best stayers in the world at the time, she was special a once in a lifetime champion too
Makybe Diva was a great horse but part of her 'greatness' was her sense of occasion. The first part of her racing career was decidedly unspectacular and she only ended up winning every second race she contested - a fantastic record in it's own right but not anywhere near the achievements of Black Caviar's. If you would like me to supply a comparative list of the records of each horse Makybe Diva beat against the records of each horse Black Caviar beat then I will be very happy to do so - I know which record stands out. I find it amusing that you choose to highlight the "special treatment" for Black Caviar as not being a "good look" but in the next breath hail the all-conquering achievements of what is obviously your favourite horse while neglecting to mention the watering of the Flemington track prior to the attempt by one certain horse to win her 3rd Melbourne Cup, after connections said she would not run if the track was too hard. Hmmmmm, a bit hypocritical maybe?
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I am the first to admit I know very little about horse racing despite having family that were trainers and winning at Flemington and alike.
On the question of which horse is the greatest of our generation I would think that would come down to a personal opinion?
Isnt' it just like us as footy fans selecting who our all time favourite Tiger players, who it is for you could be very different to me. Ditto when we talk about cricket and who's the best batsmen of the last 20 years or best spin bowler. It's all about personal opinion.
I stand corrected about the field of 4 and it being a group 2 but I ask this question not to be a smarty bum but because I'd be interested in someone who clearly knows more about horse racing than me. If it had of been any other horse making the request woud they have got a the favourable barrier? That's what i mean by question marks - would the same rule had been applied to any other horse? If yes then I will admit that I've got it terrible wrong but if the answer is no then I stand by what I said it's not a good look
And if the "bad mannered" horse's behaviour was so bad why was it allowed to race? Don't the stewards have discretion in these things at the barriers or at the acceptance stage?
And again pardon my ignorance but I thought the watering of Flemington for the Melb Cup was to appease the overseas horses and their trainers more than it was to suit Aussie horses?
I will admit I love the Melb Cup. Why? Because my dear old Aunty Amy who's husband & son trained horses very sucessfully told me when I was really young that the "truest" race in Aust when everyone is "trying" is the Melb Cup and yes she did explain to me why she believed that (long story but a fascinating one ;D) That's why I rate the Maykbe Diva so highly because it was the Cup and I never thought I'd see a horse win it 3 times in row and I doubt we will ever see that again either
Regarding the comments about the "tall poppy syndrome" if that's how my take has been construed then I am a sorry because that's not what I intended. I just have (being an ignoramus when it comes to racing) a few questions about some of the races; which I might add have now been cleared up by Smokey with his insight (thank you)
As I said she had a fantastic career and I am not disputing it for a minute. Her win at Ascot was the most brilliant performance because she did it depsite the poor riding of her jockey on the day. Actually I would have retired her then, it was that special and the one that will stick with me forever
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On the question of which horse is the greatest of our generation I would think that would come down to a personal opinion?
Isnt' it just like us as footy fans selecting who our all time favourite Tiger players, who it is for you could be very different to me. Ditto when we talk about cricket and who's the best batsmen of the last 20 years or best spin bowler. It's all about personal opinion.
I would counter that by saying only to a point. It is possible by using ratings and results to quantify a lot when comparing horses, even if they have never raced each other and that's part of why I get a bit cranky when people question her record. For the record, my favorite horse was Super Impose but in spite of the pedestal I hold him up on, he doesn't blow wind up BC's proverbial clacker when it comes to who was purely the 'best'.
I stand corrected about the field of 4 and it being a group 2 but I ask this question not to be a smarty bum but because I'd be interested in someone who clearly knows more about horse racing than me. If it had of been any other horse making the request woud they have got a the favourable barrier? That's what i mean by question marks - would the same rule had been applied to any other horse? If yes then I will admit that I've got it terrible wrong but if the answer is no then I stand by what I said it's not a good look
And if the "bad mannered" horse's behaviour was so bad why was it allowed to race? Don't the stewards have discretion in these things at the barriers or at the acceptance stage?
I truly believe in this case it wouldn't have mattered who the horse or connections were - the circumstances were that (as you rightly asked why was Here De Angels running) as Moody said at the time, if he had played up in Victoria like he did the previous start in Sydney (proving that his barrier manners had not improved) then he wouldn't have even been allowed to enter a race again. And subsequently proven to be correct 6 months later but at the time of acceptances the horse was legally allowed to race in Vic again so they were bound to accept his nomination.
And again pardon my ignorance but I thought the watering of Flemington for the Melb Cup was to appease the overseas horses and their trainers more than it was to suit Aussie horses?
Nope, her connections put it in the public arena that she would be scratched unless the track was softer than it currently was and the Flemington Track Manager duly obliged. He had other reasons that he stated but most industry experts and players publicly commented and agreed that it was done to ensure she started because she liked the sting out of the track and they couldn't afford to not have her run.
I will admit I love the Melb Cup. Why? Because my dear old Aunty Amy who's husband & son trained horses very sucessfully told me when I was really young that the "truest" race in Aust when everyone is "trying" is the Melb Cup and yes she did explain to me why she believed that (long story but a fascinating one ;D) That's why I rate the Maykbe Diva so highly because it was the Cup and I never thought I'd see a horse win it 3 times in row and I doubt we will ever see that again either
As do I. It is a compulsory day off work for me wherever I am and I love the occasion of the whole day. It started for me when I was a teenager and I used to bag for my uncle who was a bookie that fielded on the lawn every Cup day. Fantastic day and fantastic event. But that's where it gets clouded also, because the Melbourne Cup as a pure race is often quite humdrum with regards the quality of the field. I certainly agree it is among the "truest" of races on our calendar and that is due in part to the history, the prizemoney, the profile and the coverage but it doesn't always have the 'best' of fields. If you want a race in Australia that is both true in effort and has the highest quality contestants then the Cox Plate stands above all others.
Regarding the comments about the "tall poppy syndrome" if that's how my take has been construed then I am a sorry because that's not what I intended. I just have (being an ignoramus when it comes to racing) a few questions about some of the races; which I might add have now been cleared up by Smokey with his insight (thank you)
As I said she had a fantastic career and I am not disputing it for a minute. Her win at Ascot was the most brilliant performance because she did it despite the poor riding of her jockey on the day. Actually I would have retired her then, it was that special and the one that will stick with me forever
All good WP, I'm no expert either but I have been a racegoer all my life (for better or worse) :-\ and I will defend her record to the end. She was something that no other race horse in my lifetime ever came close to being. What most didn't know at the time (and many still don't know) is how injured she was prior to the Ascot race. Add to that she injured herself further in running and compounded with Nolen's mistake, you then might have an inkling of how highly that win should be rated and not based just on the fact she 'fell in'. As her trainer said, he would not have even considered starting any other horse he had ever trained (which included the champion Typhoon Tracey) if they had been carrying the injuries she was that day. He thought she was just so much better and courageous that she would still win anyway - and he was proven correct, if not by the barest of margins. And regarding the jockey's mistake on her that day, he only did what he always did with her - drop his rein when she had the race safe and she would push on at a good clip for a fair distance until he needed to physically restrain her effort and pull her up. That day, because of her injuries, the second he dropped the rein she switched off because she was so sore and buggered. Nolen said he crapped when she did it because at the same second she stopped, he saw the French horse and was fast running out of reaction time/room. He said she desperately lunged when he clicked her at the last second and that's all that got her over the line.
A standout champion in my eyes.
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All good WP, I'm no expert either but I have been a racegoer all my life (for better or worse) :-\ and I will defend her record to the end. She was something that no other race horse in my lifetime ever came close to being. What most didn't know at the time (and many still don't know) is how injured she was prior to the Ascot race. Add to that she injured herself further in running and compounded with Nolen's mistake, you then might have an inkling of how highly that win should be rated and not based just on the fact she 'fell in'. As her trainer said, he would not have even considered starting any other horse he had ever trained (which included the champion Typhoon Tracey) if they had been carrying the injuries she was that day. He thought she was just so much better and courageous that she would still win anyway - and he was proven correct, if not by the barest of margins. And regarding the jockey's mistake on her that day, he only did what he always did with her - drop his rein when she had the race safe and she would push on at a good clip for a fair distance until he needed to physically restrain her effort and pull her up. That day, because of her injuries, the second he dropped the rein she switched off because she was so sore and buggered. Nolen said he crapped when she did it because at the same second she stopped, he saw the French horse and was fast running out of reaction time/room. He said she desperately lunged when he clicked her at the last second and that's all that got her over the line.
A standout champion in my eyes.
Yep smokey I knew about her being injured going to the race, for memory it came out after the race and I remember thinking at the time that makes the victory all the more magnificant and maybe she should stop then as it would have been the perfect ending.
But then again I suppose any ending wold be perfect when you are undefeated :thumbsup
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More wins than Melbourne over the same period