One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on April 01, 2011, 03:19:11 AM
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Who's the best - Jack or Nick Riewoldt?
Jon Ralph
Herald Sun
April 01, 2011
DAVID King freely admits he didn't rate Jack Riewoldt when the youngster arrived at Punt Rd in the summer of 2006-07.
Richmond had given up its first pick for yet another Matthew Richardson replacement, yet the Tigers assistant coach wondered if Riewoldt was a dud.
Big rump. Way too much puppy fat. And possessing footy's cardinal sin - a lack of pace.
"When he got drafted, I just wasn't sure about Jack," King said.
"He looked undersized for a key post. He was slow. He was incredibly gifted in the way he could kick the ball, but he looked to me like another one of those players who in a few years' time would be either a third tall or a player without a position."
Four seasons, 69 games, 141 goals and a Coleman Medal later, King has upgraded his estimate slightly. So much so that this week he was prepared to make this provocative assessment.
"If Jack had played in last year's first Grand Final or the year before against Geelong instead of his cousin (Nick), St Kilda wins," King said.
"Finals football is more one-on-one. Every contest means something. When the ball goes into your area, it's all about how you compete, and all those things really suit Jack.
"He loves being one-one-one and I would take him over his cousin in that situation because he's more about the stand-and-deliver contest and the pack contest, not covering ground and being the conduit. As a player Nick is ahead right now, but Jack is coming with a bullet."
The Tasmanian-born cousins face off tonight at the MCG.
In the blue corner is fresh-faced Jack, king of the speccy and coming after his cousin's title.
In the red corner is Nick, undisputed champion but with question marks over his mantle.
Five best-and-fairests mean Nick is a future AFL Hall of Famer, but three quiet Grand Finals and persistent kicking issues allow us to ask one bold question.
In that mythical schoolyard game, would you choose Jack Riewoldt over Nick?
Former Essendon star Matthew Lloyd has hinted at that possibility in recent weeks without saying it out loud.
Nick has played in 16 finals and won many off his own boot, while Jack hasn't yet sniffed September.
Nick is coming off a match in which he was triple-teamed by Geelong and struggled, while Jack beat up Carlton seven-gamer Simon White for a six-goal haul.
But what is football without the tantalising "what-if" conundrums?
For big questions, you go to AFL legends, and Tasmanian-born Peter Hudson occupies that lofty perch.
The AFL's 15th official Legend played against Jack Riewoldt's dad Chris in the 1979 TFL grand final, and is a big admirer of Jack.
"Both (Jack and Nick) were born in Tassie and I would have both of them. They would play marvellously well together. But I am rapt in (Jack) because he is very much your traditional full-forward," the Hawthorn champion said.
"I am absolutely a fan of Nick Riewoldt, with his courage and some of the super-human things he does, but probably the only disappointing thing about it is some of the shots at goal.
"The genuine full-forwards only need half a dozen kicks to kick 5.1 or 6.0. I always think it's a real shame when a really talented forward can get the ball in such incredible ways, and if they miss it is so disappointing.
"When you can do all that amazing stuff and you miss a shot from 35m out, what does it all stand for? Nothing really."
In football nothing excites like a talented youngster on the rise. But it can result in premature comparisons for a player just embarking on a long career.
Richmond recruiter Francis Jackson believes Riewoldt's form is sustainable.
"He had a pretty good (under-18) carnival and showed an ability to win the ball in flight, then we followed him playing VFL footy (for Tassie Mariners), and he had a couple of fantastic games," Jackson said.
In the TFL grand final he was matched up against a bald-headed bruiser from Glenorchy.
"Every time he went near Jack, he tried to belt him. Jack treated him with contempt and they won the flag," Jackson said.
"We were always keen on him because of his football smarts, which are becoming much rarer."
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/jack-or-nick-riewoldt/story-e6frf9jf-1226031692591
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Jack or Roo? The Riewoldt debate
Martin Blake
April 1, 2011
THEY will start at opposite ends of the MCG tonight but there is little doubt that Nick and Jack Riewoldt will shape the St Kilda-Richmond game in their own ways. It won't even be the first time, either.
When the Saints and Tigers met in round 21 last year, it was The Riewoldt Show. Jack kicked seven and won the Ian Stewart Medal for best-afield, Nick kicked three and took nine marks in St Kilda's win.
All of which added to a debate that is creeping up now that Jack, the understudy and six years Nick's junior, has reached superstar status with a Coleman Medal, a Dyer Medal and an All-Australian gong in 2010. Who's the better Riewoldt?
The cousins are close, although Jack was poker-faced when he was asked about it this week down at Punt Road. ''It just happens to be that we both play for those clubs.''
It is part of the folklore that Jack was more keen on soccer in primary school and that his switch to Australian football at 12 came as a direct result of Nick being drafted by St Kilda in 2000. He idolised his cousin; when Jack could not convert a long shot on goal to win a game against the Saints two years ago, one of the first to console him was Nick.
Who's better? On strictly current form it would be Jack, the All-Australian full-forward who started with six goals despite limited opportunities against Carlton in round one. But that ignores the fact that Nick spent half the 2010 season on the sidelines with a serious injury. He has four All-Australians and five Barker Medals to show sustained excellence.
In broader terms, the consensus seems to be that Nick's achievements make him a better player right now, but that Jack's age (22) and time for improvement mean that he could conceivably catch his cousin if he sustains his current levels.
They are different players. Nick was anointed as a superstar in his teens and went No.1 in the draft. Jack was a good player for Tassie Mariners, but was not picked until No.13 in 2006, recruiters doubting his speed and whether he could play key position. Not even St Kilda, who had the No.9 pick, was sufficiently interested.
Richmond snaffled him and was rapt; recruiters Francis Jackson and Greg Miller liked that he had stood up in a handful of VFL games in Tasmania. As was Jade Rawlings, then an assistant coach, who had played alongside him in Tasmania. ''He played against men really comfortably and that's always a big plus,'' Terry Wallace, then Richmond coach, said this week. ''It's the Jack Watts scenario that comes to mind straight away. [Melbourne's No.1 2009 pick] Jack was a star player but no one had ever seen him play against men. And it's a big step for some kids to take.''
The Age was slightly underwhelmed on the day he was drafted. ''No great pace, but superb hands,'' was the description. Wallace remembers the feeling Richmond had. ''The knock on him at that stage was his power. He didn't have genuine power. But we thought he was an absolutely natural footballer.''
Five years on Jack is approaching his peak; Nick is a champion who has nothing left to achieve other than a premiership, the ultimate.
Nick is a centre half-forward who chases the ball right up to the wings as well as drifting back to kick goals. Jack is a stay-at-home full-forward with a love of the pack mark. Nick blows up his opponents with hard-running; Jack beats them one-on-one with clever bodywork.
In so far as a comparison, Nick's fans would argue that he has achieved so much more; the people in Jack's camp would remind the sceptics that Richmond's man is the more reliable set shot for goal, so crucial for a forward.
Matthew Richardson, Jack's former teammate at Richmond, says Nick has been his choice as the No.1 player in Australia for the past couple of years, but adds that the jury will be out for a while yet. ''It'd be a big call at this stage. Nick's got that many best and fairests and All-Australians. It's hard to compare players when they're at different stages of their careers. But if you're going on pure ability, if Jack keeps this up it's going to be a close call.''
Danny Frawley, the former St Kilda captain and Richmond coach, agrees. ''I'm on the Nick Riewoldt bandwagon. Jack's coming, but he's not in the same postcode. He's turning the corner into that postcode. Look I love watching both of them play and it's a shame you won't see them play together. That would be mouth-watering.''
The specifics are interesting. Richardson rates Nick as the best contested mark in the country, but admits Jack is not far away. ''I will say that Nick I've rated the best player in the competition for a couple of years. Every team needs tall forwards and they're hard to find. You know with Nick what you're going to get every single week. It's the same output. His marking is unbelievable. He's a champion. But watching Jack last week and last year it's very hard not to get excited every time he goes for the ball.''
Frawley thinks Nick's endurance adds to his case. ''He's a very good player Jack, but what I've never seen from Jack is the endurance factor. Nick and Jonathan Brown defy logic because they're so big but a lot of people don't realise they get a lot of their possession through workrate. We don't see that with Jack because he's closer to goal. Over a journey Nick would be able to outstay Jack.''
Wallace is loving Jack's burgeoning. ''He's got three major things: he holds his ground extremely well. I mean he's an eyes-only-for-the ball player and that's a given. But he holds his ground really well, and he's never pushed off the ball. Secondly he goes at everything. There's no half-measures whereas there are a lot of footballers who half go for their marks. He's 'see ball-go ball'. His best strength of all is his recovery from a marking situation. Half the time he beats ground-level players to the ball even though he's been in the air. His second effort is magnificent.''
Frawley believes ''the package'' offered by Nick pushes him ahead, particularly with leadership, but admits Jack's qualities in this area are emerging, too. He sees one area, though, where the Richmond man leads: conversion in front of goal. Jack kicked twice as many goals as behinds last year (78.39); Nick kicked almost as many behinds as goals (39.34) and has returned with a new kicking action.
Richardson likes the fact Richmond is allowing Jack's personality to come through. By nature, he is out there. ''His natural personality is enthusiastic and bubbly, he's got a bit of spunk about him. If you try to squash that, you squash the person. There's enough robots in footy now isn't there?''
Frawley insists that longevity counts. '''We've seen one good season from Jack; Nick's put eight together.''
But if you were asked right now to pick, who would it be? Richardson sums it up: ''If you're looking for 10-year player you go Jack, if you look for someone who'd come in and you know he'd be there week-to-week, and you were close to winning a premiership, I'd go Nick.''
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/jack-or-roo-the-riewoldt-debate-20110331-1cnf3.html
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Would you rather have Nick Riewoldt or Jack Riewoldt?
Herald Sun
March 31, 2011, 1.09PM
YOU'D have been laughed at for even suggesting it 12 months ago but, suddenly, comparisons between the Riewoldt cousins Nick and Jack are valid.
Young Jumping Jack just goes from strength to strength while Nick remains one of the finest players in the game.
But who would you prefer ... without using the fact that Nick is six years older as the ultimate decider?
In Nick you get a non-stop marking forward with obvious courage and leadership.
In Jack you get a definite X-Factor and a player who converts around 65 per cent of the time.
So in this week's Pick One who do you want, Saint Nick or Jumping Jack?
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NICK RIEWOLDT
Age: 28
Height and weight: 193cm, 95kg.
Draft: Pick 1 in 2000.
Games: 167.
Goals: 438.
Brownlow votes: 95.
Player honours: Five club best and fairests in 2002-04-06-07-09. All-Australian selection in 2004-06-08-09.
Average kicks: 12, handballs: 4, marks: 9, goals: 2, Accuracy: 438.286, tackles: 1.2.
Strengths: An amazing aerobic capacity for a 193cm athlete that ensures a work-rate few can keep up with. The ability to take contested marks, irrespective of traffic.
Weaknesses: Just the obvious in terms of his kicking for goal. It's fair to say he will never become a great kick now he's 28.
JACK RIEWOLDT
Age: 22
Height and weight: 195cm, 93kg.
Draft: Pick 13 in 2006.
Games: 69.
Goals: 141.
Brownlow votes: 11.
Player honours: Club best and fairest in 2010, All-Australian in 2010, Coleman medal 2010.
Average kicks: 9, handballs: 3, marks: 5, goals: 2.2, Accuracy: 141.78, tackles: 2.4.
Strengths: Pack marking, strong leading and an ability to keep the ball alive when it's in his area.
Weaknesses: As his game evolves there are fewer and fewer. Dropping his head occasionally when things don't go his way is an area he has worked successfully on.
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VERDICT: The heart tells me to go with the romantic notion of Jack but the head - and reality - say the young bloke still has a very long way to go to match his cousin.
DO YOU AGREE? OR HAS ANDO LOST THE PLOT? JOIN HIM LIVE ONLINE AT 9am AND TELL HIM WHAT YOU THINK.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/riewoldt/story-e6frf9if-1226031351535
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KICKING
Jack kicked a remarkable 78.39 last year, while Nick could manage only 39.34 and has a reputation for missing at vital times.
I think Jack is a beauty.
His kicking is very relaxed, and very natural. I like what I see when I watch him kicking for goal. He hasn't got as much to worry about as Nick; he's under a bit more pressure with his age and experience, and the way they play their footy with their structures.
"It's great that Nick is admitting he has a problem and trying a technique that works for him, but it doesn't look natural. If I was showing young kids vision of good techniques, I would put on Jack Riewoldt's vision before Nick's."
- NFL punter and former Geelong captain Ben Graham
VERSATILITY
Nick can play everywhere - even on a wing - while Jack is an old fashioned full-forward. They are both great players for their own different reasons. Nick leads well on those long leads and then doubles back with those courageous marks.
What I noticed with Jack was his jumping power. Even on the lead he just seemed to jump early and glide. A few times I thought he might have jumped early, but he had that hang time. He reads it pretty early, protects the drop zone, and just has great judgment.
Then he is pretty good on the ground recovery-wise. If he doesn't mark it he is quick to jump on it."
- Retired Collingwood defender Simon Prestigiacomo, who was chasing Nick when the Saints' skipper tore his hamstring tendon last year
TRACK RECORD
At 28, Nick is a four-time All-Australian who has delivered for a decade, while Jack has had one outstanding year.
Nick is ahead at the moment, clearly. He's in the top four or five players in the competition.
Jack has really gone with a bullet from the top 150 players two years ago to the top 20 last year, and he has probably broken into the top 10 now.
- North Melbourne premiership player and former Richmond assistant coach David King
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/how-jack-riewoldts-dad-spurned-the-saints/story-e6frf9jf-1226031686705