One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: mightytiges on April 18, 2011, 01:38:29 AM

Title: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: mightytiges on April 18, 2011, 01:38:29 AM
Playing Carlton, St Kilda, Hawthorn and Collingwood first up has been no picnic but the positive is we know exactly where we are at and where we need to improve.

IMO what we've learnt after 4 rounds .....

Pros:
* Our best 5 players are definitely good enough to lead and build a top side around. Potentially all (but Newy at 28 y.o.) could become elite players in the AFL.
* We can outplay a top side at our peak team form for an extended period.
* Our defensive pressure has improved on last year.
* Young cubs aren't overawed playing against the best and are persistent even if being beaten by their direct opponent. None of them have been "Zac Dawsoned" out there to the point of humiliation.
* We haven't resorted to plonking 18 players behind the ball in the face of an onslaught to save face on the scoreboard. We've stuck to the way we want to play whether it comes off or not. Hurts us now costing goals and % wise but a positive in the long-term development of the side.

Cons:
* Still daylight behind any top side over 4 quarters.
* Can't sustain required level of intensity and skill for nowhere near long enough (a quarter to a half at best)
* Gap between our best and worst is still massive. Worst is still uncompetitive.
* Skills across the team are still subpar too often and we can't compete with the fitness and body size/strength of other sides over 4 quarters.
* (Bottom) half of the side/list still needs to be turned over and replaced.


Thoughts?
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Smokey on April 18, 2011, 06:16:21 AM
Very good summation MT.  Pretty much spot on I reckon.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 18, 2011, 07:18:46 AM
Apart from what you've highlighted

I think we've all learned without a shawdow of a doubt how patient the majority of Tiger fans actually are  :rollin
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Penelope on April 18, 2011, 07:28:57 AM
Fair summation MT.

Even looking at your list of cons, the positive is that except for the last point, the other areas should improve with experience.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: jackstar is back again on April 18, 2011, 08:46:37 AM
Playing Carlton, St Kilda, Hawthorn and Collingwood first up has been no picnic but the positive is we know exactly where we are at and where we need to improve.

IMO what we've learnt after 4 rounds .....

Pros:
* Our best 5 players are definitely good enough to lead and build a top side around. Potentially all (but Newy at 28 y.o.) could become elite players in the AFL.
* We can outplay a top side at our peak team form for an extended period.
* Our defensive pressure has improved on last year.
* Young cubs aren't overawed playing against the best and are persistent even if being beaten by their direct opponent. None of them have been "Zac Dawsoned" out there to the point of humiliation.
* We haven't resorted to plonking 18 players behind the ball in the face of an onslaught to save face on the scoreboard. We've stuck to the way we want to play whether it comes off or not. Hurts us now costing goals and % wise but a positive in the long-term development of the side.

Cons:
* Still daylight behind any top side over 4 quarters.
* Can't sustain required level of intensity and skill for nowhere near long enough (a quarter to a half at best)
* Gap between our best and worst is still massive. Worst is still uncompetitive.
* Skills across the team are still subpar too often and we can't compete with the fitness and body size/strength of other sides over 4 quarters.
* (Bottom) half of the side/list still needs to be turned over and replaced.


Thoughts?

would totally agree.
whats worth noting is that people would rate tuck(even some put in our best 10 ::), although when put on trade table, no takers.
Our best 5-6 players are equal to any in the compp.
The problem is our bottom 6 players that run out each week arent up to it, and therefore let the team down
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: wayne on April 18, 2011, 09:29:19 AM
I'd also add that we aren't having as much trouble getting inside 50 as we did last year, and we have played 4 highly rated sides (St. Kilda might be on the slide, but they're still ultra defensive).

The more inside 50s also means we have more goalkicking options. We'll have a lot more than 1 player kick more than 15 goals this season.

Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Con65 on April 18, 2011, 09:31:43 AM
Playing Carlton, St Kilda, Hawthorn and Collingwood first up has been no picnic but the positive is we know exactly where we are at and where we need to improve.

IMO what we've learnt after 4 rounds .....

Pros:
* Our best 5 players are definitely good enough to lead and build a top side around. Potentially all (but Newy at 28 y.o.) could become elite players in the AFL.
* We can outplay a top side at our peak team form for an extended period.
* Our defensive pressure has improved on last year.
* Young cubs aren't overawed playing against the best and are persistent even if being beaten by their direct opponent. None of them have been "Zac Dawsoned" out there to the point of humiliation.
* We haven't resorted to plonking 18 players behind the ball in the face of an onslaught to save face on the scoreboard. We've stuck to the way we want to play whether it comes off or not. Hurts us now costing goals and % wise but a positive in the long-term development of the side.

Cons:
* Still daylight behind any top side over 4 quarters.
* Can't sustain required level of intensity and skill for nowhere near long enough (a quarter to a half at best)
* Gap between our best and worst is still massive. Worst is still uncompetitive.
* Skills across the team are still subpar too often and we can't compete with the fitness and body size/strength of other sides over 4 quarters.
* (Bottom) half of the side/list still needs to be turned over and replaced.


Thoughts?

Like the others, I too agree.  Our best is right up there eg. 3rd quarter against Carlton, 2nd quarter against Saints and 3rd quarter against Pies.  Problem is we cannot sustain it.

Conca and Batchelor look like they can play. So we have found 2 more players. Helbig is also useful.

I think our tackling has improved but still needs improvement - IMHO we were a long way back to start with.

I also agree with Jack - bottom 6 players are probably not up to it yet.  Either skill wise or body wise.  I think body wise more than skill at this stage.  Some of our guys just look too light and play too light.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: cub on April 18, 2011, 09:32:44 AM
If we don't beat Norf, NOTHING!
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: tony_montana on April 18, 2011, 10:36:14 AM
great summation MT

I'd also add
- a marked improvement in decision making from our team as a collective unit. Still have brain explosions but we seem to be picking better targets more often.

-our pattern running has also definitely improved, we are far more easily overlapping through midfield and off HB and splitting apart opponents defensive structures


Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: smasha on April 18, 2011, 11:15:06 AM
Apart from what you've highlighted

I think we've all learned without a shawdow of a doubt how patient the majority of Tiger fans actually are  :rollin

Probably why the AFL give us shyte draws because they know we turn up all the time and don't drop off like flies like Essendon supporters do when they aren't winning.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on April 18, 2011, 11:30:18 AM
I don't think its anything to do with the draw or dropping off like Essendon fans as Essendon have not had an easy draw either in the first five in Dogs, Sydney in Sydney, St Kilda, Carlton and Collingwood in the first 5. That's both last years GF sides a Prelim side and the teams which finished 5th and 8th.

We are starting from further back in terms of rebuild and I feel our second and third tier players are not of the same quality as some of those middle of the road sides due to either just not cutting it at this level or just needed more time at this level to show enough development to get us into a position where a significant climb up the ladder is a reality and not just a potential reality.

Another cull must certainly be on the agenda at the end of this season and I think the cull may be more painful in terms of who goes as some of those who have stayed on and helped the long term rebuild will be asked to move on even though they departures will be obvious. We possibly need to dip into the draft for at least another two years to try and get maybe a ruckman another one or two KPP players.

Add to the further development of the players currently on the list as well as the strict managing of rehabs and the list turnover required blowout losses like the last two weeks will become less and less frequent altogether by the second half next year at the earliest.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: TigerLand on April 18, 2011, 12:13:10 PM
Playing Carlton, St Kilda, Hawthorn and Collingwood first up has been no picnic but the positive is we know exactly where we are at and where we need to improve.

IMO what we've learnt after 4 rounds .....

Pros:
* Our best 5 players are definitely good enough to lead and build a top side around. Potentially all (but Newy at 28 y.o.) could become elite players in the AFL.
* We can outplay a top side at our peak team form for an extended period.
* Our defensive pressure has improved on last year.
* Young cubs aren't overawed playing against the best and are persistent even if being beaten by their direct opponent. None of them have been "Zac Dawsoned" out there to the point of humiliation.
* We haven't resorted to plonking 18 players behind the ball in the face of an onslaught to save face on the scoreboard. We've stuck to the way we want to play whether it comes off or not. Hurts us now costing goals and % wise but a positive in the long-term development of the side.

Cons:
* Still daylight behind any top side over 4 quarters.
* Can't sustain required level of intensity and skill for nowhere near long enough (a quarter to a half at best)
* Gap between our best and worst is still massive. Worst is still uncompetitive.
* Skills across the team are still subpar too often and we can't compete with the fitness and body size/strength of other sides over 4 quarters.
* (Bottom) half of the side/list still needs to be turned over and replaced.


Thoughts?

would totally agree.
whats worth noting is that people would rate tuck(even some put in our best 10 ::), although when put on trade table, no takers.
Our best 5-6 players are equal to any in the compp.
The problem is our bottom 6 players that run out each week arent up to it, and therefore let the team down

Agree good thread this  :thumbsup
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: TigerLand on April 18, 2011, 12:15:46 PM
Its worth mentioning this week could be our biggest test.

Its one thing to have sparky moments against good sides when your the underdog when you have nothing to lose.
It's another thing to go out there and win when you should. We should beat north or at worrst never be down by more than 3 goals. North are a rabble. They are coming off a bad loss and travelling back from Perth with only a 7 day break where as we have a 8 day break.

We have virtually a full squad with Moore, McGuane and Rance chances to return.

I'm looking forward to see where we are at against a equivalent opposition and whether we have the ticker to beat a team we should be more than competitive against.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: tony_montana on April 18, 2011, 12:32:10 PM
Its worth mentioning this week could be our biggest test.

Its one thing to have sparky moments against good sides when your the underdog when you have nothing to lose.
It's another thing to go out there and win when you should. We should beat north or at worrst never be down by more than 3 goals. North are a rabble. They are coming off a bad loss and travelling back from Perth with only a 7 day break where as we have a 8 day break.

We have virtually a full squad with Moore, McGuane and Rance chances to return.

I'm looking forward to see where we are at against a equivalent opposition and whether we have the ticker to beat a team we should be more than competitive against.

Im not expecting much tbh - historically these are the exact types of games where we come out and STINK
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Tigermad20011 on April 18, 2011, 12:32:54 PM
Need a CHF big time.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: one-eyed on April 18, 2011, 01:41:06 PM
Mark Robinson on SEN just now says there's too much flattery towards Richmond as all the key indicators have been against them. No mention of what these key indicators are though.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Rodgerramjet on April 18, 2011, 01:49:42 PM
Need a CHF big time.

Yes we do.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Muscles on April 18, 2011, 01:52:53 PM
The first indicator might be our percentage.  It's not flattering.  I was unpleasently surprised this morning when I realised how bad it was.  I thought we had been more competitive than that.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Rodgerramjet on April 18, 2011, 01:56:18 PM
Growing and developing the kids is a painful experience for supporters. In a world that screams for instant gratification, time and patience is a bitch. Free agency is our friend.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on April 18, 2011, 01:59:02 PM
We are 20% up on last year and two premiership points.

Furthermore in our first five games we had played top 8 sides from the year before in Carlton and the Bulldogs and this year going into the last quarter we were in three out of four games last year by three quarter time we were well and truly defeated on the scoreboard. Need to put it in perspective rather than just looking at the number crunching and making viewpoints on that.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: gerkin greg on April 18, 2011, 03:45:33 PM
Mark Robinson on SEN just now says there's too much flattery towards Richmond as all the key indicators have been against them. No mention of what these key indicators are though.

Mark Robinson is about as intelligent as a cocktail onion

Need a CHF big time.

Apparently big Jay P was tearing them out of the sky all over the ground for the Burgs, get him in instead of Miller
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: RedanTiger on April 18, 2011, 06:32:51 PM

Apparently big Jay P was tearing them out of the sky all over the ground for the Burgs, get him in instead of Miller

Might also help out in the ruck so Gus doesn't get as tired as he was on Friday.
Starting to think that Post may be better as the rebounding third defender he was as a junior.
Is it possible to play that role in defence and ruck?
May be an unusual use of the sub with say a Rance coming on so Post then rucks most of the last.
ATM it seems teams are using the impact runner like Swans Rohan but is a fresh marking ruckman viable? 
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Dubstep Dookie on April 18, 2011, 06:39:10 PM
You gotta sub a mid, its just the nature of the game.

Otherwise you end up behind the 8-ball.

Having said that, bring post in. Push McGone out. Shift Rance forward and dump the witches hat.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Penelope on April 18, 2011, 07:08:14 PM
Melbourne used their big girl as the sub on the weekend.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Dubstep Dookie on April 18, 2011, 07:21:17 PM
Melbourne used their big girl as the sub on the weekend.

He is a fanny.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: TigerTimeII on April 18, 2011, 09:20:52 PM
Need a CHF big time.

griffiths
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: the claw on April 18, 2011, 10:52:52 PM
hmm probably agree with the op.

one or two points. dont believe the basic skill in kicking can be greatly improved. i also believe it would  not be unrealistic for around 20 odd players to be turned over in the next few seasons i dont believe for a minute its the bottom 6 that needs addressing nope the problem is much larger than that.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: dizza on April 18, 2011, 11:04:40 PM
Its worth mentioning this week could be our biggest test.

Its one thing to have sparky moments against good sides when your the underdog when you have nothing to lose.
It's another thing to go out there and win when you should. We should beat north or at worrst never be down by more than 3 goals. North are a rabble. They are coming off a bad loss and travelling back from Perth with only a 7 day break where as we have a 8 day break.

We have virtually a full squad with Moore, McGuane and Rance chances to return.

I'm looking forward to see where we are at against a equivalent opposition and whether we have the ticker to beat a team we should be more than competitive against.

Im not expecting much tbh - historically these are the exact types of games where we come out and STINK

far too often it happens. we show SOME quality against the top sides who perhaps slightly underestimate us, then we get done over by the teams who we're supposed to be as good as or better than because we expect nothing of them.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Loui Tufga on April 18, 2011, 11:12:06 PM
Apparently big Jay P was tearing them out of the sky all over the ground for the Burgs, get him in instead of Miller

Make him earn his stripes, lets see him do it three weeks in a row before we call him up......
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 19, 2011, 07:01:05 AM
Apparently big Jay P was tearing them out of the sky all over the ground for the Burgs, get him in instead of Miller

Make him earn his stripes, lets see him do it three weeks in a row before we call him up......

Agree

Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: gerkin greg on April 19, 2011, 11:02:47 AM
Agree in principle, but what did Thursfield do to earn his stripes this year?
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Infamy on April 19, 2011, 12:27:38 PM
Agree in principle, but what did Thursfield do to earn his stripes this year?
Not get suspended
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Loui Tufga on April 19, 2011, 05:21:14 PM
Agree in principle, but what did Thursfield do to earn his stripes this year?

He got lucky because of injuries.....
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: gerkin greg on April 19, 2011, 06:43:20 PM
Exactly. And he's been no better than a 2nd year recruit. Back to Coburg  :police:
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: RedanTiger on April 19, 2011, 06:56:37 PM
Make him earn his stripes, lets see him do it three weeks in a row before we call him up......

Would only be two weeks, he was poor in the first game fortnight ago against Sandi.

Postie - had a bit of shocker for mine as his brain was 5 secs behind his body for most of the day. A fair few basic brainfades today. That speckie in the last was a rare time he did something right.

VFL Coburg Report
richmondfc.com.au
By Tony Greenberg
3:06 PM Tue 05 Apr, 2011


Development coach, David Newett, provides a summary of how the Richmond-listed players performed for Coburg in last weekend’s opening round of the 2011 VFL season . . .

Jayden Post  (8 kicks, 5 handballs, 5 marks)
Was used forward and in the ruck throughout the game.  Had an impact in the last quarter, taking a strong mark and setting up a couple of goals.

Match details (VFL seniors)
Coburg 7.0 9.2 11.7 16.9  (105)
S’ham  5.2 10.5 12.7 16.12  (108)

Goals - Coburg:  Carnell 4, Nason 3, Miller 3, Tuck 2, Contin 2, Lawton, Post.

Best - Coburg:  Webberley, Grimes, Tanner, Tuck, Nason, Carnell.  

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/110912/default.aspx
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Dice on April 19, 2011, 08:20:55 PM
Exactly. And he's been no better than a 2nd year recruit. Back to Coburg  :police:

Ease up on big Bill Thursthfield Gerk.... you've eaten one too many of those cocktail onions
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Coach on April 19, 2011, 08:30:02 PM
You so stupid, I call him Bill.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: gerkin greg on April 19, 2011, 09:04:18 PM
Walt Thrustfelch? Love the guy what are you on about
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: Dice on April 19, 2011, 09:21:19 PM
Walt Thrustfelch?

 :lol 



 
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: mightytiges on April 24, 2011, 09:30:06 PM
Tonight just further confirms our top 5-6 players are right to build a top side around. You want your best players to step up when the game is on the line and lift the side across the line by wanting the ball in their hands.

The AFL site summary summed it up - "When the game had to be won, it was the Tigers who found that something special. Riewoldt took the pack marks that needed to be taken, while Trent Cotchin took a left-handed mark from a Chris Newman bomb and played on to kick truly at the start of the last quarter. But perhaps the most electrifying moment came when Robin Nahas won a fierce contest on the boundary line at the 11-minute mark of the final term, centred a low kick to the goalsquare and Dustin Martin volleyed it through for a goal. Sublime."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/112330/default.aspx

Special players make things happen that your ordinary footballer can't.

Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: cub on April 24, 2011, 09:49:51 PM
Confirmed we are on the way, now we MUST SMASH Bears.
Haven't got to play them much at "OUR HOME" medicine must be delivered.
Title: Re: What we've learnt after the first 4 rounds
Post by: mightytiges on April 24, 2011, 10:59:54 PM
Important game for us to be mentally on our game coming off a win and because we'll be favourites for the first time this season. We don't want to do a Port.