One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => View from the Outer => Topic started by: one-eyed on June 30, 2011, 04:44:25 AM
-
The Tiger players were sitting in the front two rows (see pic below) ...
AFL players reject wages offer
Michael Warner, Aaron Langmaid
From: Herald Sun
June 30, 2011
(http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2011/06/29/1226084/459651-110630-afl-wages-melbourne.jpg)
FOOTY'S wages war intensified last night as the league's 782 players pledged not to back down on their demands.
In an historic show of defiance against AFL bosses, players voted to stay the course in their bid to be paid a fixed 25-27 percent cut of the game's rising revenues.
AFL Players' Association chief Matt Finnis said last night: "The players sent a very strong message today - they want to be treated fairly and with respect."
Players from all 17 teams rejected the AFL's latest cash offer and empowered their union to take the fight to Fair Work Australia, the national workplace relations tribunal, if negotiations continue to falter.
Fair Work Australia can help settle disputes where parties are strongly opposed, and can also approve a ballot of all AFL players on industrial action.
Asked about a player strike, Finnis said: "Strike action was not on the agenda ... it is the last thing on players' minds."
Brisbane Lions star and AFLPA president Luke Power said the players remained united for a fair deal.
"It is momentous. AFL players have never come together like this before. We engaged players, we got their feedback and opinions and then we passed resolutions," Power said.
Collingwood's Luke Ball said: "We are not waging war, we want a fair negotiation."
Carlton forward Chris Judd said the united front would ensure a good outcome.
"It was a show of unity from players," Judd said after the meeting.
"It's good to see players are suitable engaged in negotiations.
"It was a chance to see the players do get the information they need."
Judd said he did not think there was any public perception that players were asking too much.
"There are lots of people with lots of opinions but the players just want a fair and equitable deal," he said.
"I think that's what the AFL wants as well.
"Hopefully the players association can continue with its negotiations and get it sorted out in due course."
Players are fighting for a major overhaul of the way they are paid. Instead of an amount rising each season, they want a three-year deal with 25, 26 and then 27 per cent of all football revenues - about $220 million a season according to AFLPA figures.
The union says about a third of the $50 million-a-season pay rise would be directed to increased player salaries, the rest for a pension scheme and other welfare benefits.
But the AFL is refusing to consider the percentage proposal, preferring incremental annual increases in player payments.
The AFL has told clubs the pay demand will cost the game an extra $100 million each year - not $50 million.
In the hours before last night's meeting, the first of its kind since 1993, Demetriou warned the league would never agree to the percentage model.
"My view hasn't changed,'' Demetriou said.
"We've got to manage the expectations of our stakeholders, which include clubs and it also includes our supporters. They're the most important stakeholder.
"Getting that balance right and speaking to each group to get them to understand that here is a pot of money that is available, here is what your fair share is and what we're prepared to do.
"We don't link that to percentages, we link that to what's fair.''
Asked what a fair deal was, Demetriou replied: "A fair increase at the end of the day is what the game can afford."
He said the soaring salaries of AFL executives- including his own $2.2 million pay cheque - were "not relevant'' to the player pay debate.
"AFL staff salaries have gone up on average about 3 to 4 per cent over the past 10 years. Our top players in the competition have gone up between 300-400 per cent,'' he said.
"They're earning over $1 million now. So I don't think it is an apples for apples. I actually think it's not relevant, to be quite honest.''
Pressed on the prospect of a player strike, Demetriou said: "The players have indicated on numerous occasions that is not something they're considering, so I take them at their word for that.''
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/follow-the-afl-players-pay-day/story-e6frf9jf-1226084222635
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/afl-stars-make-play-for-pay-after-a-fashion/story-e6frg6nf-1226084489628
-
AFL Players' Association chief Matt Finnis said last night: "The players sent a very strong message today - they want to be treated fairly and with respect."
And they need to treat the game and other stakeholders fairly and with respect. Eg the Clubs, grassroots footy etc
Judd said he did not think there was any public perception that players were asking too much.
Always thought Judd lived in "knoddy" land this sort of proves. When it comes to matters of players salaries it is a bit hard to take seriously a bloke who takes up probably 20-25% of his Club's salary cap + has that deal with Visy
I support some of their claims; they have merit but they need to understand that there other parties that are just as important as they are to the game and the biggest one os the clubs. IMHO any deal cannot be to the detriment of the clubs.
I have to say that Matt Finnis rubs me up the wrong way and appears to be about wanting to make a name for himself on this whole thing.
He was on SEN a few weeks back and when he commented that it was the AFL that wonted more teams and it was the AFL's job to pay for these new teams and it wasn't the problem of the AFLPA. Newsflash for you Matt - 2 new teams means employement for about 100 people you are supposed to represent you peanut ::)
-
I'm with the players. They need more money for new clothes. Some of those kids have to get around in second hand jeans full of rips and holes.
-
Is the thinking man's orange Tim Fleming being inappropriate in that photo?
-
I think the thinking man's orange Tim Fleming is winding up for a ball tweet
-
Not a good look to have their meeting at the Palladium at Crown I wouldn't have thought - not exactly the cheapest place in Melb to hire out in the evening ;D
has tohave been a Matt Finnis decision ;D
-
is that Daniel Connors in the front row ?? :o is he looking for an increase in salary :o :o :o
-
my take on things is the players are "'kidding themselves""
What happens in 5 years time when the TV rights are up for grabs? and the bid is less than the current bid, say 20% reduction,
do the players except a 20 % pay cut ? :nope :nope :nope
In the real world, the players are over paid .
They dont manage people and play a sport they choose and love.
I am a General Manager of a rather large company and I would think that Jordon McMahon last year got nearly double my base salary.
he didnt have the stress of managing 30 people, yeah he played all year at Coburg ::)
Also they all make money on the side from apprearances as well.
-
I think they deserve an increase, I think their pension plan is great idea, like the idea of increasing rookies salaries but locking themselves into a fixed % based on revenues could come back to bite them on the bum.
How much should there increase be? Certainly not 30-40%+ which based on their ambit claim of fixed % of revenues is what they are looking for.
I'll repeat what I said before ant deal cannot be to the detriment of the clubs and other stakeholders
They need to remember "Players need Clubs, Clubs need players - it is about balance
-
all for some sort of pension plan and too look after Rookies
But there as so many aspects of the game that can be improved, if $$ were correctly spent and not a cash grab
Clubs doctors is an area which needs improving and general governing
-
RFC players need reduction in wages after yesterday
-
I think our guys missed the message that the AFLPA wasn't going on strike this weekend :P.
ps. On Saturday you could hear "and you guys want a pay rise to dish up this crap" yelled out by some Tiger supporter at least every 5 minutes. Not happy Jan lol.
-
I think our guys missed the message that the AFLPA wasn't going on strike this weekend :P.
:lol
-
And they have the cheek to sit in the front row at the meeting
-
And it drags on after the players knocked back the AFL's latest offer
It not often I side with the AFL but their last offer to players was more than generous.. IMHO players are being very greedy.... I really don't thinkt hey are looking at the whole picture, they seem to only be focusing on themselves
Always thought Matt Finnis was an Andy Wannabe >:( ;D
====================
No deal between AFL and players Michael Warner From: Herald Sun September 15, 2011 1:42PM
THE AFL says it is shocked the players "utterly rejected" its pay offer of $1.144 billion over five years.
Pay talks between the AFL and players ended this morning without agreement.
The league had given players until today to respond to its $1.144 billion five-year offer, lodged two weeks ago.
The players dropped their demand for a fixed percentage of the game's revenue, contingent on the deal being for three years instead of five.
But AFL chief Andrew Demetriou said the players' compromise amounted to a demand for more money, which the league could not afford.
"When I say there is no more money, there is no more money," he said today.
"When you come back from a five-year deal with a three-year deal, with the first years being front-loaded, by implication you want more money.
"The demands players put to us today and changes to the offer represent a significant rise in the amount of money they are seeking.
"I think there will be a fair bit of surprise across the football industry that the players don't think the deal is a fair one.
"For our offer to be utterly rejected, I'm just surprised."
Demetriou said the AFL could pull its offer from the table after today.
"I can't guarantee that the offer that has been provided, that has been rejected, will be there next time."
He said a major sticking point was the players' refusal to sign over use of their images in AFL promotion.
"It is unfortunate they have seen fit to refuse the ability to use players' images to promote the game," Demetriou said.
"I think most people would be surprised by the news today and indeed we were ... I think any me on employee offered $1.44 billion ... would be surprised it has been knocked back."
Demetriou said the AFL had an obligation to support players but also clubs, players, state leagues and grassroots facilities.
"Under the scenario put to us by AFLPA today that balance is skewed, unfairly so, for the rest of the football industry."
He "encouraged" players to talk to staff at their clubs, volunteers and junior coaches to get a "greater understanding" of the AFL's priorities.
"I think players need to consider the impact of their actions on their clubs, supporters and community football networks that helped them get there."
He said the AFL would stick to its timeline of meeting clubs on September 26 to update them on their annual financial distribution, and could not predict the next move in the pay dispute.
"While we are thoroughly disappointed we will continue to talk to the AFLPA. We think we have done everything we can to provide the best possible deal. There is no more money for the players."
The AFLPA has scheduled its own media conference for 3.30pm.
MORE TO COME
- with Al Paton
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/no-deal-between-afl-players/story-e6frf9jf-1226137877809
-
players way too greedy
-
I just think their whole fixed percentage thing was stupid and not well thought out and I will admit they sort of lost some support from me over it
And I honestly don't think the players really have a clue as to how many things the AFL fund regarding state league comps (VFL, QFL etc) and how much they spend in local leagues..... and I don' think the AFLPA have explained it. Not sure if that's because the AFLPA is clueless as well or they are just choosing to ignore it... my gut tells me it's the latter unfortunately
-
The AFLPA still have a gripe over the final two years of the last agreement and seem hellbent on playing catch-up with this new deal. The AFLPA need to realise it doesn't work that way. Having said that Luke Ball tonight seems pretty confident a deal will be done.
-
As much as I think the players are being greedy, it's strangely satisfying seeing Demetriou being bent over and dictated to for a change
-
The AFLPA still have a gripe over the final two years of the last agreement and seem hellbent on playing catch-up with this new deal. The AFLPA need to realise it doesn't work that way. Having said that Luke Ball tonight seems pretty confident a deal will be done.
Luke didn't come across well when talking about the "numbers".... he said they are not after more money and they are giving up about $40mil ... no you not you are not actually giving up anything
Sorry Luke but your logic is flawed and you don't seem to get it so here's the math
You've been offered a 25% pay increase over 5 years (11%, 5%, 3%, 3%, 3%)
But the AFLPA have said no we want a 3 year deal and we want the same increase over the 3 years that we would have get in the 5 year deal = 19% increase (11%, 5%, 3%) and then we negotiate a new agreement.
Unless at the end of the 3 years you guarantee that you will only be requesting 3% increases over the first 2 years of the your next agreement then you are going to be asking for more money.. justify any way you want but that is what the AFLPA is saying
And another thing ...for 3 months now Finnis has been going on and on about how you cannot compare this CBA to any other EBA because we are dealing with "professional sportsman" who have limited careers spans. Hence, why players salary increases need to be greater than what the average person gets.... but today he comes out and says that a 3 year deal is what is the common length of EBAs withing most industries in Australia and that's one of the reasons they are looking towards a 3 year deal ....
What the.... you can not have it both ways...
If you want what's common and standard then put your hand out for the common & standard wage increases. Or alternatively if you want the above standard and common then take the 5 year deal
Sorry but the players have lost me over this...GREEDY
-
Luke didn't come across well when talking about the "numbers".... he said they are not after more money and they are giving up about $40mil ... no you not you are not actually giving up anything
Sorry Luke but your logic is flawed and you don't seem to get it so here's the math
You've been offered a 25% pay increase over 5 years (11%, 5%, 3%, 3%, 3%)
But the AFLPA have said no we want a 3 year deal and we want the same increase over the 3 years that we would have get in the 5 year deal = 19% increase (11%, 5%, 3%) and then we negotiate a new agreement.
Unless at the end of the 3 years you guarantee that you will only be requesting 3% increases over the first 2 years of the your next agreement then you are going to be asking for more money.. justify any way you want but that is what the AFLPA is saying
And another thing ...for 3 months now Finnis has been going on and on about how you cannot compare this CBA to any other EBA because we are dealing with "professional sportsman" who have limited careers spans. Hence, why players salary increases need to be greater than what the average person gets.... but today he comes out and says that a 3 year deal is what is the common length of EBAs withing most industries in Australia and that's one of the reasons they are looking towards a 3 year deal ....
What the.... you can not have it both ways...
If you want what's common and standard then put your hand out for the common & standard wage increases. Or alternatively if you want the above standard and common then take the 5 year deal
Sorry but the players have lost me over this...GREEDY
Yep blindy freddy knows they will be asking for far more than the "3%, 3%" in the first two years when the next deal comes around. They wouldn't be wanting just a 3-year deal now otherwise. They are counting on the AFL revenues to increase beyond predictions over the next 3 years and then scoop the cream in the next deal.
-
AFL_PKeane Patrick Keane twitter:
"TPP figure for clubs in 2012 formalised at $8.78 million per club by AFL Commission today after agreement between AFL and AFLPA.
TPP amount for '12 represents increase of 7pct on 2011 figure of $8.21 million per club. ASA agreements also increase 7 pct to 613k per club"
-
Looks like the Players & AFL have finally reached an agreement with an announcement due possibly today :sleep :sleep
From the Age:
"AFTER months of haggling, a new pay deal between the players and the AFL is close to being signed, possibly as early as today.
The AFL Players Association's board and delegates yesterday responded ''positively'' when briefed by chief executive Matt Finnis on an updated offer from the AFL on the first day of their two-day conference in Lorne.
Finnis and AFL counterpart Andrew Demetriou were expected to finalise the five-year contract, worth a minimum of $1.144 billion, last night."
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-and-players-close-to-new-pay-deal-20111214-1ouzz.html#ixzz1gXd6DQ84
-
Media conference with all parties at 2pm today.
AFL_PKeane twitter:
"AFLPA/AFL joint media conference at 2pm today, Thurs 15/12, on CBA. Luke Power, Matt Finnis, Andrew Demetriou and Adrian Anderson to attend."
-
Pay deal reached
By Mark Macgugan
2:00 PM Thu 15 Dec, 2011
THE AFL has stuck to its guns on its $1.144 billion, five-year pay offer to players, but has agreed to a review after three years.
After 18 months of negotiations, the League and the AFLPA finally signed off on a new collective bargaining agreement on Thursday.
Under the new agreement, the average player's wage will rise to more than $300,000 by 2016.
Rookies, the AFL's lowest-paid players with a minimum wage of just $35,000 in 2011, are big winners in the deal.
They'll receive a pay rise of 17 per cent next year, 19 per cent the year following and nine per cent in 2014, taking their yearly earnings to almost $54,000 plus match payments.
The League has also agreed to a $90 million retirement scheme, which will see players receive around $20,000 per year during life after football.
The review of terms will take place during 2014, and will apply to the last two years of the deal.
If an agreement can't be reached during that review, The AFL will make a penalty payment to the AFLPA of between $3 million and $10 million, depending on its financial performance over the next three years.
Other key components of the new CBA are:
* Star players who promote the game and their clubs will receive extra payments.
* Clubs will be required to pay a minimum 95 per cent of the salary cap, up from the current 92.5 per cent.
* All clubs must employ a full-time player development manager, and schedule four hours per week for players' professional and personal development activities.
* Clubs must schedule a fixed day off for players between Monday and Friday each week, with four exceptions for scheduling.
* Players will be entitled to a minimum six-week uninterrupted block of annual leave after the end of each season.
* Expanded past player hardship fund of $250,000 per year.
* Abolishment of the veterans' list, with primary lists extended from 38 to 40.
* Players assign the non-exclusive right to use their image on the AFL-Telstra network.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/127273/default.aspx
-
AFL_PKeane Patrick Keane twitter:
"Club Total Player Payment (TPP) limits for next five years 2012-2016 are:
2012 $8.78m
2013 $9.13m
2014 $9.63m
2015 $9.92m
2016 $10.2m"