One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Stripes on July 18, 2011, 09:35:47 PM
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What's the definition of madness - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Just having a quick scan over the current topics there are multiple threads calling for the coaches head. After 30 years, why is it that so many Tigers supporters still feel that by sacking the coach it will fix up all our problems?! Dimma is only a small part of our problems - he's made a few tactical errors - but getting rid of him now would only cause us more pain rather than less.
Our on-field and off-field woes are the result of countless such rash decisions. Every coach we have hired until Dimma has felt the pressure to appease fans such as you, and therefore traded away picks and never tried the full rebuild through fear of premature termination of their job.
The problems we now face is because of the sins of the past - we are to blame as much as any coach, any recruiter, any board member, any player. Our demand for immediate success has p1ssed away our future. The pressure we have exerted on the club which in turn helped fuel the media to escalate the frenzy, has never given the club time to do the hard yards.
We finally have a CEO and board willing to completely support the head coach with the support staff, recruiters, specialist coaches, trade 'experts' etc Mistakes are going to be made but the coaches role is not to tactically win each and every game but instead to develop the players individually firstly, minor teams (defence/forwards/midfielders etc) secondly and full team last. We are still at the individual stage at present, step one.
Malthouse will not come to our club any time soon if ever. The board are committed to Dimma whether some people on here like it or not. So rather than always point the finger at the coach understand that our problems are not tactical but rather the state of development our players are at and the glaring holes we have in personale.
There are not quick fixes so stop the finger pointing and learn from the mistakes of the past.
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mmmmm 5 years of Frawley
mmmmm 5 years of Wallace
dont think any of these coaches were premature terminations
Hate to think what happens to the RFC in the next few years if we dont start winning games
As Paul Roos just said on TV, winning games fixes everything, selling homes games doesnt
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At this stage i would agree with you Stripes.
He has made some blunders yep actually quite a few but i dont mind it as long as he starts changing his ways.
Biggest issues i want rectified are things like publicly playing favourites e.g Jackson and Edwards. Very unprofessional.
Another thing i will say is he wont be our coach unless he starts to surround himself with experience. Massive void that needs to be filled.
He needs to stop being their friend and start to put more pressure on players not performing their role.Jackson 2 tackles WTF
I have full praise for the cleanout that he has already done but IMO i will decide if he is the coach to take us forward, come december when the delistings/trade period is done and dusted. Then i will know if he is our man.
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mmmmm 5 years of Frawley
mmmmm 5 years of Wallace
dont think any of these coaches were premature terminations
Hate to think what happens to the RFC in the next few years if we dont start winning games
As Paul Roos just said on TV, winning games fixes everything, selling homes games doesnt
I agree with your quote from Roo's Jack - selling games is a short term money generator but if we can use the money to fund long term changes then perhpas it will be worth it. I have to say, personally, the on-selling of these two games really nicked me off.
In terms of Spud and Wallace's tenue, the length was a direct attempt to stop this reputation and learn from the past. Spuds equally due to his early success whereas Wallace's was in a failed, unresourced attempt to rebuild. The board won't sack the coach prematurely regardless of how much supporters rant, they are backing the path and goals they share with him for the long term.
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whats of interest is that people want to judge Dimma by who he "'cleans out "'
Thats the easy part of his job, everybody knows who wont be there, even the players themsleves
we will get rid of 8-10 and it isnt hard to work out
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The question is do we have the worst record in 30 years because we have had the most coaches or have we had the most coaches because we have the worst record?
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Stripes, i remember debating with you long and hard about TW early in his 5th year. Even then you thought he was the right man for the job. It's great that you support the club's decisions but at least open your eyes just a little bit.
What i think is madness is supporting because it makes us feel all warm and fuzzy inside!
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has an afl/vfl coach ever taken over such a basket case and turned things around in two years? Ever?
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has an afl/vfl coach ever taken over such a basket case and turned things around in two years? Ever?
been plenty
we played finals in 1995 didnt we, guess who
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name them and the years?
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name them and the years?
the Giesch
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Dimma was brought in fundamentally to develop the players. Wallace was an absent coach when it came to educating his players. This is why so many of our high draft picks never seemed to reach their potential. Dimma hasn't surrounded himself with experience but rather enthusiastic 'ground troops' who can assist him in this development.
Is it working - from my perspective it certainly seems to be. Players such as Vickery, Cotchin, Rance, Grimes, King and Nahas are all better players than they were last year. Dusty was too until he tired (poor conditioning on his return to preseason perhaps) and the new players Conca, Batchelor and Helbig have all shown improvement for first year players. Even Houli and Grigg are better at our club than they were at the Don and the Scum. Foley has returned from injury in good form, not great but good.
The only players I see would have slipped is Jack - new role, injury concerns and confience plus players such as Connors, Morton and Tuck would rather than dip in form seem to lack in the required defensive or desposal skills Dimma demands. Edwards, White, Jackson and Browne are temporary role players. They are the better of two evils currently and with no one pushing them out they will remain. This is not Dimma's coaching, this is holes in our list.
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has an afl/vfl coach ever taken over such a basket case and turned things around in two years? Ever?
and if you have an experienced coach, its easier,
Hafey at Collingwood
Blight at adelaide
Mark Williams took Port from bottom to top
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Premature talk in sacking the coach. He is 38 games into a 3 season contract.
Yep the losses hurt and he has made mistakes but he has time to fix them.
Jack whilst I agree on you on some things its time to let it go with the sacking of the coach.
Tell you what if this time next year we are playing as badly as we have for the past month for the majority of the year then with a handful of games left we may need to look at his achievements or lack of. Until then lets not make things any worse by trying to guess who what why how and when.
We are all hurting and we all have some sort of idea what needs to be addressed and done. Terry left us in a state of disrepair list wise and that's being generous given the 10 or so that need to go this year also. Almost 80% of the list that Dimma inherited two years ago will be gone by October 31.
Yes for some of us the acknowledgement of no finals this year after our last month is a bitter pill as is the fact that the fastrack we thought was on two months ago may or may not have been the case. All I know is that the kids are standing up right now more than the senior players and that to me says something. Furthermore when we are in a panic or we can't accept failure we seem to inevitably point our knives at the coach, we acknowledge some of these list cloggers need to go maybe we need to point the finger at them rather than the coach.
To finish up, sacking Hardwick would achieve what? Who with what calibre would we attract knowing we sacked DImma. Plus a new coach may only make token changes of a few rookies and a couple of second and third year players and what if they hold onto the so called senior core of Jako Edwards White and co? We would be having this conversation by the Anzac Day round 5 games next year saying how poo the coach is and why do we hang on to list cloggers who bring the team down.
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Dimma was brought in fundamentally to develop the players. Wallace was an absent coach when it came to educating his players. This is why so many of our high draft picks never seemed to reach their potential. Dimma hasn't surrounded himself with experience but rather enthusiastic 'ground troops' who can assist him in this development.
Is it working - from my perspective it certainly seems to be. Players such as Vickery, Cotchin, Rance, Grimes, King and Nahas are all better players than they were last year. Dusty was too until he tired (poor conditioning on his return to preseason perhaps) and the new players Conca, Batchelor and Helbig have all shown improvement for first year players. Even Houli and Grigg are better at our club than they were at the Don and the Scum. Foley has returned from injury in good form, not great but good.
The only players I see would have slipped is Jack - new role, injury concerns and confience plus players such as Connors, Morton and Tuck would rather than dip in form seem to lack in the required defensive or desposal skills Dimma demands. Edwards, White, Jackson and Browne are temporary role players. They are the better of two evils currently and with no one pushing them out they will remain. This is not Dimma's coaching, this is holes in our list.
now stripes, to have improvement in six players aint good enough
Its need to be the majority of the group, not 6 players
good theory is that if you cant improve 10% on the previous year, you wont be competitve
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Premature talk in sacking the coach. He is 38 games into a 3 season contract.
Yep the losses hurt and he has made mistakes but he has time to fix them.
Jack whilst I agree on you on some things its time to let it go with the sacking of the coach.
Tell you what if this time next year we are playing as badly as we have for the past month for the majority of the year then with a handful of games left we may need to look at his achievements or lack of. Until then lets not make things any worse by trying to guess who what why how and when.
We are all hurting and we all have some sort of idea what needs to be addressed and done. Terry left us in a state of disrepair list wise and that's being generous given the 10 or so that need to go this year also. Almost 80% of the list that Dimma inherited two years ago will be gone by October 31.
Yes for some of us the acknowledgement of no finals this year after our last month is a bitter pill as is the fact that the fastrack we thought was on two months ago may or may not have been the case. All I know is that the kids are standing up right now more than the senior players and that to me says something. Furthermore when we are in a panic or we can't accept failure we seem to inevitably point our knives at the coach, we acknowledge some of these list cloggers need to go maybe we need to point the finger at them rather than the coach.
To finish up, sacking Hardwick would achieve what? Who with what calibre would we attract knowing we sacked DImma. Plus a new coach may only make token changes of a few rookies and a couple of second and third year players and what if they hold onto the so called senior core of Jako Edwards White and co? We would be having this conversation by the Anzac Day round 5 games next year saying how poo the coach is and why do we hang on to list cloggers who bring the team down.
Just go and get Malthouse
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You're right, it's our fault. Maybe the club should've sacked the supporters instead of Danny. Then we would've played in 8 GF's.
Yeah, nah.
Come on, get a grip!
No one would argue Richmond fans have not been patient!
And surely 5 years is more than enough time for the last 2 idiots.
It would be idiotic to sack Hardwick this year, that bit I agree.
But people can surely point the finger at his last few weeks, he & the players have struggled - on and off field. To his credit, he pointed that out thus week in his update.
There would be very few wanting the coach sacked.
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has an afl/vfl coach ever taken over such a basket case and turned things around in two years? Ever?
and if you have an experienced coach, its easier,
Hafey at Collingwood
Blight at adelaide
Mark Williams took Port from bottom to top
Hafey had a core of senior players and a good group of youngsters plus full support of the board.
Blight got rid of the cancers with full support of the board united the club and went back to back.
Williams also had a core of senior players in key positions with a good core of kids. His first season he made finals his second they won 6 games and 4 years later of choking in the previous 3 seasons he one a flag.
Not entirely correct Jack.
Dimma by October 31 will have culled all but about 10 players he inherited out of 42 in August 2009. We are coming from a lot further back than either of those clubs you mention Jack.
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lets see who puts there head over the ball this week
lets see who doesnt get a gifted a game
lets see who kicks long this week,
The supporters didnt say the above, the coach has though
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has an afl/vfl coach ever taken over such a basket case and turned things around in two years? Ever?
and if you have an experienced coach, its easier,
Hafey at Collingwood
Blight at adelaide
Mark Williams took Port from bottom to top
Hafey had a core of senior players and a good group of youngsters plus full support of the board.
Blight got rid of the cancers with full support of the board united the club and went back to back.
Williams also had a core of senior players in key positions with a good core of kids. His first season he made finals his second they won 6 games and 4 years later of choking in the previous 3 seasons he one a flag.
Not entirely correct Jack.
Dimma by October 31 will have culled all but about 10 players he inherited out of 42 in August 2009. We are coming from a lot further back than either of those clubs you mention Jack.
mate, blind Freddy can cull players, please
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Premature talk in sacking the coach. He is 38 games into a 3 season contract.
Yep the losses hurt and he has made mistakes but he has time to fix them.
Jack whilst I agree on you on some things its time to let it go with the sacking of the coach.
Tell you what if this time next year we are playing as badly as we have for the past month for the majority of the year then with a handful of games left we may need to look at his achievements or lack of. Until then lets not make things any worse by trying to guess who what why how and when.
We are all hurting and we all have some sort of idea what needs to be addressed and done. Terry left us in a state of disrepair list wise and that's being generous given the 10 or so that need to go this year also. Almost 80% of the list that Dimma inherited two years ago will be gone by October 31.
Yes for some of us the acknowledgement of no finals this year after our last month is a bitter pill as is the fact that the fastrack we thought was on two months ago may or may not have been the case. All I know is that the kids are standing up right now more than the senior players and that to me says something. Furthermore when we are in a panic or we can't accept failure we seem to inevitably point our knives at the coach, we acknowledge some of these list cloggers need to go maybe we need to point the finger at them rather than the coach.
To finish up, sacking Hardwick would achieve what? Who with what calibre would we attract knowing we sacked DImma. Plus a new coach may only make token changes of a few rookies and a couple of second and third year players and what if they hold onto the so called senior core of Jako Edwards White and co? We would be having this conversation by the Anzac Day round 5 games next year saying how poo the coach is and why do we hang on to list cloggers who bring the team down.
Just go and get Malthouse
Again this romance of ex Richmond premiership players you have Jack. Sheedy in 2009 and Mick this year.
Mick is 58 he won't coach more than a few more years. The RFC needs someone stoic who will coach for the next 10 and drain every ounce of talent out of the list with firm decisions a stable board and a group oh henchman with a strategy second to none. Its blokes like Cameron and march who are bringing this club down off field.
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lets see who puts there head over the ball this week
lets see who doesnt get a gifted a game
lets see who kicks long this week,
The supporters didnt say the above, the coach has though
Lets hope they do that but it won't stop them getting beat by a team who on Grand Final Day will have a 50% chance of winning the flag. Perspective please!!!
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March and Cameron are running the place
People get put into positions for a reason ;)
As for romance, nah, i want success
and success comes from hard ruthless decisions in Football Clubs
we just ''pussy foot"' around and go around in circles, as we have done for 30 years.
Yep, give Dimma more time, nice bloke, but nice blokes dont make good coaches.
he has gone back on his word on many occassions this year, and this is only reflected by recent poor UNACCEPTABLE perfomances
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lets see who puts there head over the ball this week
lets see who doesnt get a gifted a game
lets see who kicks long this week,
The supporters didnt say the above, the coach has though
Lets hope they do that but it won't stop them getting beat by a team who on Grand Final Day will have a 50% chance of winning the flag. Perspective please!!!
As I have said in other posts, its not about winning or losing, its how you play,and the way we have been playing is totally unacceptable
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Premature talk in sacking the coach. He is 38 games into a 3 season contract.
Yep the losses hurt and he has made mistakes but he has time to fix them.
Jack whilst I agree on you on some things its time to let it go with the sacking of the coach.
Tell you what if this time next year we are playing as badly as we have for the past month for the majority of the year then with a handful of games left we may need to look at his achievements or lack of. Until then lets not make things any worse by trying to guess who what why how and when.
We are all hurting and we all have some sort of idea what needs to be addressed and done. Terry left us in a state of disrepair list wise and that's being generous given the 10 or so that need to go this year also. Almost 80% of the list that Dimma inherited two years ago will be gone by October 31.
Yes for some of us the acknowledgement of no finals this year after our last month is a bitter pill as is the fact that the fastrack we thought was on two months ago may or may not have been the case. All I know is that the kids are standing up right now more than the senior players and that to me says something. Furthermore when we are in a panic or we can't accept failure we seem to inevitably point our knives at the coach, we acknowledge some of these list cloggers need to go maybe we need to point the finger at them rather than the coach.
To finish up, sacking Hardwick would achieve what? Who with what calibre would we attract knowing we sacked DImma. Plus a new coach may only make token changes of a few rookies and a couple of second and third year players and what if they hold onto the so called senior core of Jako Edwards White and co? We would be having this conversation by the Anzac Day round 5 games next year saying how poo the coach is and why do we hang on to list cloggers who bring the team down.
Just go and get Malthouse
Again this romance of ex Richmond premiership players you have Jack. Sheedy in 2009 and Mick this year.
Mick is 58 he won't coach more than a few more years. The RFC needs someone stoic who will coach for the next 10 and drain every ounce of talent out of the list with firm decisions a stable board and a group oh henchman with a strategy second to none. Its blokes like Cameron and march who are bringing this club down off field.
once again spot on tucker.
Cameron and March are toxic. Thrown in the weights coach and FJ and we have 4 bigger problems at the RFC
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As I said perspective please.
Yes I agree you are only as good as your last performance but 2 months ago we were chocolates.
Two months ago we were lauding how far we had come. Most on here. We were talking about the same man.
At the start of the year we were expecting 6-10 wins and more than likely we will fall into that assessment.
A few wins in May after a nightmare start and the media writing feel good articles and we were up up and away.
We are playing with a side with kids and experienced players who don't give a crap. Blame the players who don't give a crap and bring the coach down. They need to be looked at hard and shown the door not the coach.
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Maybe just maybe we are not good enough.
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has an afl/vfl coach ever taken over such a basket case and turned things around in two years? Ever?
and if you have an experienced coach, its easier,
Hafey at Collingwood
Blight at adelaide
Mark Williams took Port from bottom to top
Hafey had a core of senior players and a good group of youngsters plus full support of the board.
Blight got rid of the cancers with full support of the board united the club and went back to back.
Williams also had a core of senior players in key positions with a good core of kids. His first season he made finals his second they won 6 games and 4 years later of choking in the previous 3 seasons he one a flag.
Not entirely correct Jack.
Dimma by October 31 will have culled all but about 10 players he inherited out of 42 in August 2009. We are coming from a lot further back than either of those clubs you mention Jack.
Lets be honest, the last 2 drafts haven't been that great either, at years end we will probably/should get rid of Taylor, Webberley, Nason, Hicks, Contin, Westoff, Miller, Hislop. With Roberts already gone. With others a bit lucky imo (Dea, 2 games in 2 years)
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has an afl/vfl coach ever taken over such a basket case and turned things around in two years? Ever?
and if you have an experienced coach, its easier,
Hafey at Collingwood
Blight at adelaide
Mark Williams took Port from bottom to top
hafey took over collingwood for the 1977 season.
1976 they had finished last
1975 they had finished 5th
1974 they finished 4th
1973 they were minor premiers
basket case or a side you had been there abouts but for whatever reason had a shocking year?
blight took over adelaide, a club only 6 years old with previous season finishes of 12th 11th, 11th and 5th,
A basket case or a middle of the road side.
Mark williams took over a club only three years old with previous finishes of 9th and 10th.
basket case?
in his first year he got them into the finals after finsihing the seaon strongly, only to drop down to 14th with 7 wins in his second.
that turning around a basket case? oh hang on Port went backwards in his second season.
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March and Cameron are running the place
People get put into positions for a reason ;)
As for romance, nah, i want success
and success comes from hard ruthless decisions in Football Clubs
we just ''pussy foot"' around and go around in circles, as we have done for 30 years.
Yep, give Dimma more time, nice bloke, but nice blokes dont make good coaches.
he has gone back on his word on many occassions this year, and this is only reflected by recent poor UNACCEPTABLE perfomances
So if people get put into positions for a reason why would Malthouse change things if March and Cameron are pulling the strings? Mick seems quite autocratic and wouldn't want anyone or anything cutting his lunch. Just look at the friction between him and Buckley. Would March or Cameron based on what you wrote step aside for Mick then? Why waste the last two years and what of Benny Gale's role. Too far fetched Jack.
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Its blokes like Cameron and march who are bringing this club down off field.
This.
It's amazing how some supporters want Dimma sacked yet are confident in this dynamic duo finding a better replacement even though they are the same clowns that appointed Dimma 18 months ago!!!
I've seen more depth of thought from a glass of whale spunk*
*glass of whale spunk was against McGuane playing CHF
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Its blokes like Cameron and march who are bringing this club down off field.
This.
It's amazing how some supporters want Dimma sacked yet are confident in this dynamic duo finding a better replacement even though they are the same clowns that appointed Dimma 18 months ago!!!
I've seen more depth of thought from a glass of whale spunk*
*glass of whale spunk was against McGuane playing CHF
I'm actually a Dimma supporter at this stage Gerks. I think the problem lies in a few of our off field posts.
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I'm actually a Dimma supporter at this stage Gerks. I think the problem lies in a few of our off field posts.
Yeah me too. I'm agreeing with ya.
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I'm actually a Dimma supporter at this stage Gerks. I think the problem lies in a few of our off field posts.
Yeah me too. I'm agreeing with ya.
Ok champ. Didn't know what you meant. I read your post too quickly. Apologies. :thumbsup
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Premature talk in sacking the coach. He is 38 games into a 3 season contract.
Yep the losses hurt and he has made mistakes but he has time to fix them.
Jack whilst I agree on you on some things its time to let it go with the sacking of the coach.
Tell you what if this time next year we are playing as badly as we have for the past month for the majority of the year then with a handful of games left we may need to look at his achievements or lack of. Until then lets not make things any worse by trying to guess who what why how and when.
We are all hurting and we all have some sort of idea what needs to be addressed and done. Terry left us in a state of disrepair list wise and that's being generous given the 10 or so that need to go this year also. Almost 80% of the list that Dimma inherited two years ago will be gone by October 31.
Yes for some of us the acknowledgement of no finals this year after our last month is a bitter pill as is the fact that the fastrack we thought was on two months ago may or may not have been the case. All I know is that the kids are standing up right now more than the senior players and that to me says something. Furthermore when we are in a panic or we can't accept failure we seem to inevitably point our knives at the coach, we acknowledge some of these list cloggers need to go maybe we need to point the finger at them rather than the coach.
To finish up, sacking Hardwick would achieve what? Who with what calibre would we attract knowing we sacked DImma. Plus a new coach may only make token changes of a few rookies and a couple of second and third year players and what if they hold onto the so called senior core of Jako Edwards White and co? We would be having this conversation by the Anzac Day round 5 games next year saying how poo the coach is and why do we hang on to list cloggers who bring the team down.
Bingo
Great post Tucker
But you are asking a lot..regarding ...perspective....
For some people it doesn't suit the argument so it cannot come into play
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March and Cameron are running the place
People get put into positions for a reason ;)
As for romance, nah, i want success
and success comes from hard ruthless decisions in Football Clubs
we just ''pussy foot"' around and go around in circles, as we have done for 30 years.
Yep, give Dimma more time, nice bloke, but nice blokes dont make good coaches.
he has gone back on his word on many occassions this year, and this is only reflected by recent poor UNACCEPTABLE perfomances
So if people get put into positions for a reason why would Malthouse change things if March and Cameron are pulling the strings? Mick seems quite autocratic and wouldn't want anyone or anything cutting his lunch. Just look at the friction between him and Buckley. Would March or Cameron based on what you wrote step aside for Mick then? Why waste the last two years and what of Benny Gale's role. Too far fetched Jack.
Now tucker
how do you know things arent happening behind the scenes to move on March and Cameron ?
Has benny gale spoken to people already to take there roles ?
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As I informed someone else on this forum several months ago ;) that there are moves behind the scenes, that person did dismiss them though. although discussions have taken place.
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and I might also add these discussions took place when we were winning games
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To me, I don't see Dimma having the same control or say in club administration like many other coaches appear to have. Dimma to me has a specific role outlined for him by the board and he is sticking closely to it. I think as long as he continues to meet their key indicators (ie number of games he puts into the kids etc) he will be retained.
The club is all about preparing the future. Generating funds to pay off debt and finance the football department, recruiting and developing players, trading in youth to compliment the list. Dimma is really a role player himself - player education first, winning games second. That's hard for many to accept or understand. Perhaps he will develop the tactical nouse to continue on with the group as he gain experience himself in the role but at the moment this isn't his strength nor his purpose for that matter.
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whats of interest is that people want to judge Dimma by who he "'cleans out "'
Thats the easy part of his job, everybody knows who wont be there, even the players themsleves
we will get rid of 8-10 and it isnt hard to work out
Plenty of coaches never even did a proper cleanout Jack so on that score alone Damien Hardwick is well infront and if he gets rid of another 8 this year then he has indeed done a very important part of his job. A part that all of us over the last 10 to 15 years asked our coaches to do but NONE of them ever did. I'm still on the Hardwick bandwagon, there will be ups and downs but we must stick with this coach IMHO.
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whats of interest is that people want to judge Dimma by who he "'cleans out "'
Thats the easy part of his job, everybody knows who wont be there, even the players themsleves
we will get rid of 8-10 and it isnt hard to work out
Plenty of coaches never even did a proper cleanout Jack so on that score alone Damien Hardwick is well infront and if he gets rid of another 8 this year then he has indeed done a very important part of his job. A part that all of us over the last 10 to 15 years asked our coaches to do but NONE of them ever did. I'm still on the Hardwick bandwagon, there will be ups and downs but we must stick with this coach IMHO.
I think the other thing that seems to be getting lost here is he is turning them over a pretty rapid rate
Outside of Miller who's a rookie he's replaced the majority of de-listed players with kids who are going to need more than 1 season to establish themselves. They can't all be Martins
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... They can't all be Martins
... and he's struggling at the moment too.
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... They can't all be Martins
... and he's struggling at the moment too.
Certialy is but I was using him as example of players straight out the TAC comp - who are simply ready to play size wise, ability wise etc
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has an afl/vfl coach ever taken over such a basket case and turned things around in two years? Ever?
and if you have an experienced coach, its easier,
Hafey at Collingwood
Blight at adelaide
Mark Williams took Port from bottom to top
hafey took over collingwood for the 1977 season.
1976 they had finished last
1975 they had finished 5th
1974 they finished 4th
1973 they were minor premiers
basket case or a side you had been there abouts but for whatever reason had a shocking year?
blight took over adelaide, a club only 6 years old with previous season finishes of 12th 11th, 11th and 5th,
A basket case or a middle of the road side.
Mark williams took over a club only three years old with previous finishes of 9th and 10th.
basket case?
in his first year he got them into the finals after finsihing the seaon strongly, only to drop down to 14th with 7 wins in his second.
that turning around a basket case? oh hang on Port went backwards in his second season.
Nicely put Al :thumbsup
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Its blokes like Cameron and march who are bringing this club down off field.
How?
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March and Cameron are running the place
People get put into positions for a reason ;)
As for romance, nah, i want success
and success comes from hard ruthless decisions in Football Clubs
we just ''pussy foot"' around and go around in circles, as we have done for 30 years.
Yep, give Dimma more time, nice bloke, but nice blokes dont make good coaches.
he has gone back on his word on many occassions this year, and this is only reflected by recent poor UNACCEPTABLE perfomances
So if people get put into positions for a reason why would Malthouse change things if March and Cameron are pulling the strings? Mick seems quite autocratic and wouldn't want anyone or anything cutting his lunch. Just look at the friction between him and Buckley. Would March or Cameron based on what you wrote step aside for Mick then? Why waste the last two years and what of Benny Gale's role. Too far fetched Jack.
Now tucker
how do you know things arent happening behind the scenes to move on March and Cameron ?
Has benny gale spoken to people already to take there roles ?
I don't nor do I claim I do. I don't know what Benny does but I doubt he will move on Cameron while he still has 2 years on his contract. The club is 6 mil in debt and asking the fans for money I doubt they will pay out Cameron or Hardwick and trhen ask fans to foot the bill later on to pay the debt.
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and I might also add these discussions took place when we were winning games
As I informed someone else on this forum several months ago ;) that there are moves behind the scenes, that person did dismiss them though. although discussions have taken place.
What were these discussions about, and why were they not shared earlier.
Would the club pay out a contract of a coach on a 3 yr deal with 18 months to run while they ask fans to help erase a 6 million dollar debt?
So are these talks distabilising the club and affecting the teams performance?
Come on Jack according to you I thought Sheeds was going to be our coach in 2009 FACT.
It seems the panic merchants at RFC do their best work in the midst of a losing streak summoning support through a forum of peddling easy answers.
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Its blokes like Cameron and march who are bringing this club down off field.
How?
I have no proof and if I am wrong happy to acknowledge that I have erred but just my opinion Smoke I feel March is not the man to take us forward. Seems very overeactive and does not handle limelight well. Furthermore has had a few gaffs publically when talking to the club. To me he just does not command respect. Furthermore he has had six years to help erase debt and create an environment on the up off field but it has only been created through Benny's influence I believe rather than anything Gary has proactively implemented.
Craig on the other hand I feel has a very poor track record. We hastily recruited him after Greg Miller was vacated and IMHO I feel he has failed to shape our list with any verve or positivity. He had a poor record at Melb and I feel that he is following up with this here. Draft wise we have done okay but I think that his legacy will be forgotten quickly once his five years are up. I also think that he has had a few public gaffs in his time also here.
Maybe you could ask Jack to PM you about these secret discussions at the club even when we were playing well. I don't know Smokey I just gave you my opinion. :thumbsup
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Fair enough Tucker. Just asked because so many are highlighting these 2 as the root cause of most of our current ills and I was not privy to what they had done to deserve this.
I don't agree with the bagging of March, even though he might not be the most media savvy and dynamic of presidents, I have no issue whatsoever with the job he has done since being elected president. The club off-field is now light years ahead of where it was when he took over and the rescue job he has overseen could not have been achieved any quicker by most others. The FTF is not the beginning of this, it is just the current stage of our club's climb from the bottom, and to say he has failed by not eradicating the debt in 6 years is not a fair summation of the task that was required to get our club out of the financial 'woods'. Yep, needed to speak up at times when he didn't, needed to shut up at times when he did, but his performance as President has largely been one of salvation for our club - we were in dire straits when Casey departed - and I don't agree with those flagging March when looking for the nearest scapegoat because the on-field results don't satisfy their immediate need.
I have no real opinion of Cameron one way or the other but I don't know what more he could have done since taking up his position as GM Football Operations in Sept 08. He has only been in charge for 3 drafts - 1 under Wallace and 2 under Hardwick - and even though he has the final say on list management, he would have been influenced significantly by Wallace's requirements in his first year so it's a tough call to be blaming him when he has also been responsible for Hardwick's 2 drafts that most on here laud as being satisfactory at the least. Like I said, I don't have a real strong opinion one way or the other on him but I certainly don't have a sense of him being the reason for our perceived failure thus far.
But, like you say, its all our opinions and I'm sure the reality swims around them somewhere.
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What's the definition of madness - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Just having a quick scan over the current topics there are multiple threads calling for the coaches head. After 30 years, why is it that so many Tigers supporters still feel that by sacking the coach it will fix up all our problems?! Dimma is only a small part of our problems - he's made a few tactical errors - but getting rid of him now would only cause us more pain rather than less.
Our on-field and off-field woes are the result of countless such rash decisions. Every coach we have hired until Dimma has felt the pressure to appease fans such as you, and therefore traded away picks and never tried the full rebuild through fear of premature termination of their job.
The problems we now face is because of the sins of the past - we are to blame as much as any coach, any recruiter, any board member, any player. Our demand for immediate success has p1ssed away our future. The pressure we have exerted on the club which in turn helped fuel the media to escalate the frenzy, has never given the club time to do the hard yards.
We finally have a CEO and board willing to completely support the head coach with the support staff, recruiters, specialist coaches, trade 'experts' etc Mistakes are going to be made but the coaches role is not to tactically win each and every game but instead to develop the players individually firstly, minor teams (defence/forwards/midfielders etc) secondly and full team last. We are still at the individual stage at present, step one.
Malthouse will not come to our club any time soon if ever. The board are committed to Dimma whether some people on here like it or not. So rather than always point the finger at the coach understand that our problems are not tactical but rather the state of development our players are at and the glaring holes we have in personale.
There are not quick fixes so stop the finger pointing and learn from the mistakes of the past.
here here well said.
i for one dont know if hardwick is the man for the job or not. but im more than prepared to give him a decent amont of time to show he can improve us long term.
i will happily point out his errors and there have been a few to now but i will also balance it out with many other thinhgs.
its pretty simple for me atm i dont believe for a second that onfield success is the no1 priority for our club atm. i dont expect long term onfield success until we get our house in order and actually put the horse in front of the cart.
this does not mean that anyone at the club should be exempt from criticism when they get things wrong or show over a period of time they are not up to the task at hand.i truly think our supporters are very reactionary they never ever weigh up the pros and cons of where the club off field is at or what the talent at the club is capable of.what it always amounts to is people over rating the list the clubs ability to recruit and develop players and when we start to lose they have literally feral views based solely on what their own expectations are while ignoring the facts.
an example is i think most would agree we are close to a bottom 4 side yet when a fellow bottom 4 side beats us its the end of the world, sheesh the knives come out when sides higher on the ladder beat us and its all based on, bloody hell we are better than them or we should be but the actual truth is is and all the indicators say we are only on a par or probably worse.
i dont get it how anyone can expect decent results and good ladder position with the list we have and the lack of experience quality size etc etc amazes me.and how people expect us to improve the situation when we are broke and we recruit on a shoe string budget is mind boggling.
to me most have unrealistic expectaions of the players and are unrealistic about time frames. simply put the players fall into two groups. most of the youinger ones are truly in development. most of the older ones above 22 fall into the mediocre category. this alone should be lowering expectations but does it oh no were gunna make finals. bloody ferals the bane of all sensible common sense supporters.
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now, that would be close to being best post i have read on this forum.
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Hey Tuckerbag.like it or not.the talks did take place some 8 weeks ago.I suppose the club are looking to the future and sounding out potential people to take over other people roles.
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Now tucker
how do you know things arent happening behind the scenes to move on March and Cameron ?
Has benny gale spoken to people already to take there roles ?
Directly or indirectly you made a nasty inference about someones character there Jack
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By the way Tuckerbag.Sheedy was approached by the RfC twice in the past 10 years to coach..Greg Miller wouldn't sign off on it at the time and again in recent times..
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Now tucker
how do you know things arent happening behind the scenes to move on March and Cameron ?
Has benny gale spoken to people already to take there roles ?
Directly or indirectly you made a nasty inference about someones character there Jack
It's no secret that there will be changes at years end
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It's it a good thing that we get the best people at the club???.would of grabbed Chris Pelchen but we spoke to him too late
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It's it a good thing that we get the best people at the club???.would of grabbed Chris Pelchen but we spoke to him too late
All for having the best people that's what all good company's should do
But you are (like always) missing my point because it doesn't suit your argument but directly or indirectly you have a made an assertion about a persons character with what you've posted
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What's the definition of madness - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Just having a quick scan over the current topics there are multiple threads calling for the coaches head. After 30 years, why is it that so many Tigers supporters still feel that by sacking the coach it will fix up all our problems?! Dimma is only a small part of our problems - he's made a few tactical errors - but getting rid of him now would only cause us more pain rather than less.
Our on-field and off-field woes are the result of countless such rash decisions. Every coach we have hired until Dimma has felt the pressure to appease fans such as you, and therefore traded away picks and never tried the full rebuild through fear of premature termination of their job.
The problems we now face is because of the sins of the past - we are to blame as much as any coach, any recruiter, any board member, any player. Our demand for immediate success has p1ssed away our future. The pressure we have exerted on the club which in turn helped fuel the media to escalate the frenzy, has never given the club time to do the hard yards.
We finally have a CEO and board willing to completely support the head coach with the support staff, recruiters, specialist coaches, trade 'experts' etc Mistakes are going to be made but the coaches role is not to tactically win each and every game but instead to develop the players individually firstly, minor teams (defence/forwards/midfielders etc) secondly and full team last. We are still at the individual stage at present, step one.
Malthouse will not come to our club any time soon if ever. The board are committed to Dimma whether some people on here like it or not. So rather than always point the finger at the coach understand that our problems are not tactical but rather the state of development our players are at and the glaring holes we have in personale.
There are not quick fixes so stop the finger pointing and learn from the mistakes of the past.
here here well said.
i for one dont know if hardwick is the man for the job or not. but im more than prepared to give him a decent amont of time to show he can improve us long term.
i will happily point out his errors and there have been a few to now but i will also balance it out with many other thinhgs.
its pretty simple for me atm i dont believe for a second that onfield success is the no1 priority for our club atm. i dont expect long term onfield success until we get our house in order and actually put the horse in front of the cart.
this does not mean that anyone at the club should be exempt from criticism when they get things wrong or show over a period of time they are not up to the task at hand.i truly think our supporters are very reactionary they never ever weigh up the pros and cons of where the club off field is at or what the talent at the club is capable of.what it always amounts to is people over rating the list the clubs ability to recruit and develop players and when we start to lose they have literally feral views based solely on what their own expectations are while ignoring the facts.
an example is i think most would agree we are close to a bottom 4 side yet when a fellow bottom 4 side beats us its the end of the world, sheesh the knives come out when sides higher on the ladder beat us and its all based on, bloody hell we are better than them or we should be but the actual truth is is and all the indicators say we are only on a par or probably worse.
i dont get it how anyone can expect decent results and good ladder position with the list we have and the lack of experience quality size etc etc amazes me.and how people expect us to improve the situation when we are broke and we recruit on a shoe string budget is mind boggling.
to me most have unrealistic expectaions of the players and are unrealistic about time frames. simply put the players fall into two groups. most of the youinger ones are truly in development. most of the older ones above 22 fall into the mediocre category. this alone should be lowering expectations but does it oh no were gunna make finals. bloody ferals the bane of all sensible common sense supporters.
Good post claw - you make a far too much sense for some :)
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What's the definition of madness - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Just having a quick scan over the current topics there are multiple threads calling for the coaches head. After 30 years, why is it that so many Tigers supporters still feel that by sacking the coach it will fix up all our problems?! Dimma is only a small part of our problems - he's made a few tactical errors - but getting rid of him now would only cause us more pain rather than less.
Our on-field and off-field woes are the result of countless such rash decisions. Every coach we have hired until Dimma has felt the pressure to appease fans such as you, and therefore traded away picks and never tried the full rebuild through fear of premature termination of their job.
The problems we now face is because of the sins of the past - we are to blame as much as any coach, any recruiter, any board member, any player. Our demand for immediate success has p1ssed away our future. The pressure we have exerted on the club which in turn helped fuel the media to escalate the frenzy, has never given the club time to do the hard yards.
We finally have a CEO and board willing to completely support the head coach with the support staff, recruiters, specialist coaches, trade 'experts' etc Mistakes are going to be made but the coaches role is not to tactically win each and every game but instead to develop the players individually firstly, minor teams (defence/forwards/midfielders etc) secondly and full team last. We are still at the individual stage at present, step one.
Malthouse will not come to our club any time soon if ever. The board are committed to Dimma whether some people on here like it or not. So rather than always point the finger at the coach understand that our problems are not tactical but rather the state of development our players are at and the glaring holes we have in personale.
There are not quick fixes so stop the finger pointing and learn from the mistakes of the past.
Stripes, I'm so glad that with all the poo on here, you still take time to share your views.
You are rarely wrong, and your post is spot on.
Winning fixes everything yes, and we can't be looking long term forever, but as much as we're all furious at the state of things Dimma employment is not the reason for the lack of success.
5 weeks ago he was a genius after the Dreamtime win.
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here here well said.
i for one dont know if hardwick is the man for the job or not. but im more than prepared to give him a decent amont of time to show he can improve us long term.
i will happily point out his errors and there have been a few to now but i will also balance it out with many other thinhgs.
its pretty simple for me atm i dont believe for a second that onfield success is the no1 priority for our club atm.....
Good post claw - you make a far too much sense for some :)
Agree - great post claw :clapping
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Hey Tuckerbag.like it or not.the talks did take place some 8 weeks ago.I suppose the club are looking to the future and sounding out potential people to take over other people roles.
Can you elaborate Jack?
If no publically, PM me, if yes can you let us know?
Otherwise its innuendo mate.
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By the way Tuckerbag.Sheedy was approached by the RfC twice in the past 10 years to coach..Greg Miller wouldn't sign off on it at the time and again in recent times..
So once post 2002/03 after Miller arrived at the club and one in 2009???
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By the way Stripes and Claw. :thumbsup
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What's the definition of madness - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
There are not quick fixes so stop the finger pointing and learn from the mistakes of the past.
Hear bloody hear.
The reactions recently of many so called supporters towards Hardwick has been nothing short of a disgrace.
No wonder we are in a perpetual losing cycle. The culture of eating our own will not die.
Just a bunch of 40 year old grumpy pricks with a bone to pick.
Show some bloody patience!
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Just a bunch of 40 year old grumpy pricks with a bone to pick.
I'm safe. I might be a grumpy prick but I'm not in my 40's! :P
And for the record, I'm a Dimma fan anyway.
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Show some bloody patience!
Even a buddhist monk on a lifetime vow of silence would have said something by now! (if he was a tiger supporter)
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MAO@ The coach sacking forum.
So we share an element of irony in our humor....I'd rather that than be an ars licker,
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MAO@ The coach sacking forum.
So we share an element of irony in our humor....I'd rather that than be an ars licker,
How do you respond to a rational, reasoned argument like that I ask you. :o
Nothing wrong with 'an element of irony in our humour', I just get annoyed by relentless, blantant and misguided attacks on Richmond people when the fault is not solely there own. Sometimes we're too reactionary in our emotive rants on here Ox.
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I'd rather that than be an ars licker,
ars lickers come in many different guises.
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you have to admit, he has swung the axe this week with the outs. :banghead :banghead
GET FAIR DINKUM DIMMA !!!!!!
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you have to admit, he has swung the axe this week with the outs. :banghead :banghead
GET FAIR DINKUM DIMMA !!!!!!
Give it a break Jack, we get your point. 3 different threads with the same bloody comment. Geez man!
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My dopey boyfriend is getting a run,so I'm less than 100% peeed off with the axings.
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you have to admit, he has swung the axe this week with the outs. :banghead :banghead
GET FAIR DINKUM DIMMA !!!!!!
Give it a break Jack, we get your point. 3 different threads with the same bloody comment. Geez man!
Seconded
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My dopey boyfriend is getting a run,so I'm less than 100% peeed off with the axings.
lol. We need him to have a good game if we're to be any chance of getting within 8 goals
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you have to admit, he has swung the axe this week with the outs. :banghead :banghead
GET FAIR DINKUM DIMMA !!!!!!
Whats the point we're gonna lose by 15 goals anyway
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you have to admit, he has swung the axe this week with the outs. :banghead :banghead
GET FAIR DINKUM DIMMA !!!!!!
Give it a break Jack, we get your point. 3 different threads with the same bloody comment. Geez man!
Seconded
Thirded
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you have to admit, he has swung the axe this week with the outs. :banghead :banghead
GET FAIR DINKUM DIMMA !!!!!!
Give it a break Jack, we get your point. 3 different threads with the same bloody comment. Geez man!
Seconded
Thirded
Fourthed
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you have to admit, he has swung the axe this week with the outs. :banghead :banghead
GET FAIR DINKUM DIMMA !!!!!!
Give it a break Jack, we get your point. 3 different threads with the same bloody comment. Geez man!
Seconded
Thirded
Fourthed
At least Jackstar talks consistently about FOOTBALL.
:lol
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As opposed to complaining about spelling and Gen Y :angel:
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you have to admit, he has swung the axe this week with the outs. :banghead :banghead
GET FAIR DINKUM DIMMA !!!!!!
Give it a break Jack, we get your point. 3 different threads with the same bloody comment. Geez man!
Seconded
Thirded
Fourthed
Fifthed :lol ::)
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As opposed to complaining about spelling and Gen Y :angel:
another classy post :sleep
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you have to admit, he has swung the axe this week with the outs. :banghead :banghead
GET FAIR DINKUM DIMMA !!!!!!
Give it a break Jack, we get your point. 3 different threads with the same bloody comment. Geez man!
Seconded
Thirded
Fourthed
Fifthed :lol ::)
Good one Jack. :thumbsup :lol
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you have to admit, he has swung the axe this week with the outs. :banghead :banghead
GET FAIR DINKUM DIMMA !!!!!!
Give it a break Jack, we get your point. 3 different threads with the same bloody comment. Geez man!
Seconded
Thirded
Fourthed
At least Jackstar talks consistently about FOOTBALL.
:lol
Here is some football shaped cheese to go with your vintage '65 incessant Whine.
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you have to admit, he has swung the axe this week with the outs. :banghead :banghead
GET FAIR DINKUM DIMMA !!!!!!
Give it a break Jack, we get your point. 3 different threads with the same bloody comment. Geez man!
Seconded
Thirded
Fourthed
At least Jackstar talks consistently about FOOTBALL.
:lol
Here is some football shaped cheese to go with your vintage '65 incessant Whine.
Be punctilious utilising multiple-syllable terms such as 'incessant' Mr Hooter. History dialogues that a certain curmudgeon's conviction is that of exclusive tenancy over such terms, ensuring he has little cause to feel somewhat infinitesimal.