One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on July 28, 2011, 05:19:58 AM
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Richmond has unofficially chosen to make the redevelopment of Punt Road its priority, pushing back any plans for a stand-alone VFL team for three years.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/deadline-looms-for-vfl-team-decisions-20110727-1i0ck.html#ixzz1TKojCaIT
As the recently restructured AFL Victoria moves to formulate a long-term plan for the perilous state of much of football's heartland, the state's chief, Peter Jackson, and Grant Williams have instructed clubs to complete their plans by Sunday, warning them that stand-alone VFL teams will become increasingly expensive to run as they help fund existing VFL teams.
The clubs have been told they must stick with whatever decision they reach for the next three seasons for the sake of VFL stability.
AFL Victoria is expected to significantly increase the annual licence fee - currently about $130,000 - meaning clubs looking to move to a stand-alone team could be faced with an annual bill increase of at least $100,000. The estimated cost of funding a stand-alone team this season is $500,000.
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The clubs have been told they must stick with whatever decision they reach for the next three seasons for the sake of VFL stability.
which would explain the decision to sign a three agree coburg, as there is no way they could have been in a position to field a stand alone team next year.
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Well there goes Essendon straight past us again, Mark Thompson knows just how vital this is and appears to have succeeded in getting it done, they will be three years on us before we even get to square 1, just not good enough Richmond.
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Well there goes Essendon straight past us again, Mark Thompson knows just how vital this is and appears to have succeeded in getting it done, they will be three years on us before we even get to square 1, just not good enough Richmond.
AGREE 100%
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Not much we can do if we dont have the coin. Hence the importance of the FTF. At least we are doing something about 'getting there'. ;)
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If we can't afford it we can't afford it but how long has Gary March been Pres/V.P and we are still on the bones of our arse.
The lack of effort put into this before this year is the issue, I think.
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Not much we can do if we dont have the coin. Hence the importance of the FTF. At least we are doing something about 'getting there'. ;)
You make a lot of sense here. We all know the VFL team is in the works but we just don't have the cash, plain and simple. Bringing in more stand alone seconds teams will certainly bring down the standard of the VFL competition too.
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with all due respect saying we'd like to do something but not having the cash is ridiculous and sounds like some at tigerland are living on dreams of grandeur that cant be achieved. Its like saying Im gonna root a supermodel today and instead you tonk the next door neighbours mrs even though shes ugly. Either do the job properly or dont do it at all.
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with all due respect saying we'd like to do something but not having the cash is ridiculous and sounds like some at tigerland are living on dreams of grandeur that cant be achieved. Its like saying Im gonna root a supermodel today and instead you tonk the next door neighbours mrs even though shes ugly. Either do the job properly or dont do it at all.
The FTF is all about reaching that goal but with the timeline now and other improvements higher priorities (ie football department/coaches, facilities, a training ground, our debt etc) we will have to settle for making it a goal in the future.
Good luck with the Suoer model too! :cheers
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STRIPES its been 30 years buddy. We dont have time. Time is of the essence. Its running out. A 50 year old 30 years ago is now 80 years old. Im 41 in 30 years Ill be 71. Stuff patience. We want action NOW! We want our reserves side NOW! Its time RFC admin went hard at achieving their goals NOW or they should go home!
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STRIPES its been 30 years buddy. We dont have time. Time is of the essence. Its running out. A 50 year old 30 years ago is now 80 years old. Im 41 in 30 years Ill be 71. Stuff patience. We want action NOW! We want our reserves side NOW! Its time RFC admin went hard at achieving their goals NOW or they should go home!
Flagman: the FTF was step up for a reason, to firstly get rid of the debt and then create a 'war chest" of money for us to compete in areas (eg recruiting, player development, VFL team etc) where other clubs are ahead of us.
It was made very clear that to achieve all those things on the list they needed $6mil. We currently have $2.8mil half way through a 12 month campaign to raise the grand total. They also made it clear what the priorities would be based on how much they raise.
On top of that the AFL have obviously clearly changed the rules regarding stand alone VFL sides by saying that what ever you decide for 2012 you are locked into until the end of 2014.
So if you want VFL reserves side; what out of all the other things the Club's listed as wanting to do based on how much is raised by the FTF do they not do so they field a VFL side?
Perhaps they not worry about paying any debt off and just keep paying $500k interest? Perhaps we continue to pay on 92.5% of the salary cap rather than paying 100%? Perhaps we don't worry about extra resoucres for recruiting or sports science and fitenss?
Bottom line is with out the $$$$ you cannot have/do everything, things need to be prioritised, that's what they've done.
If you honestly believe the stand alone VFL team is the most pressing issue they need to address then that is fair enough but then you cannot complain if the debt doesn't go or there isn't enough recruiting resources etc
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with all due respect saying we'd like to do something but not having the cash is ridiculous and sounds like some at tigerland are living on dreams of grandeur that cant be achieved. Its like saying Im gonna root a supermodel today and instead you tonk the next door neighbours mrs even though shes ugly. Either do the job properly or dont do it at all.
Its not like saying that at all, its like saying, I plan on rooting a supermodel, putting a plan of hitting the gym for 12 months, once you have achieved that then you don't have to settle for the neighbours ugly mrs :thumbsup
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Can someone explain to me why it costs so much more to be stand alone?
I wouldn't have thought Coburg would have 2 sticks to rub together and I would have imagined we pay most of the costs currently anyway?
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Can someone explain to me why it costs so much more to be stand alone?
I wouldn't have thought Coburg would have 2 sticks to rub together and I would have imagined we pay most of the costs currently anyway?
TBR Geelong said a few years ago it cost them around $400k-$500k to run their VFL side
First thing is the licence fee for AFL teams fielding their own VFL team, Caro said in the article that it is currently around $130k and likely to rise. VFL teams pay considerable (read a lot) less than this.
The other costs involved include carrying the minimum number of VFL only listed payers (I think it is at least 8-10) outside of the normal AFL list. Then there is the extra staff for match day (eg trainers, doctors, physios) that are required. that's just a few things off the top of my head
Also, would argue strongly that financially Coburg are pretty strong now, their balance sheet certainly shows that, cash in the bank for example. Granted Richmond would contribute but I don't think it would be most of their costs
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If we can't afford it we can't afford it but how long has Gary March been Pres/V.P and we are still on the bones of our behind.
The lack of effort put into this before this year is the issue, I think.
why dont we talk about since hes been president and actually had control.
seems to me a lot of posters want to repeat the leon daphne mistake all over. seems to me march has done many many good things for the club and yes along the way hes made his fair share of stuff ups.5.5 mil in debt and growing when march took over. it has gone down marginally. we had one man doing recruiting list management and running the footy dept. we had to get in part time recruiters to he;lp out. we had the worst facilities in the league we had few assitant coaches or develoment coaches. the list goes on and on and under march we have improved all those things and more while actually reducing the debt.yes he could have done things better and he could have made less mistakes but in the main hes done okay.i dont mind mistakes personally, i just dont want to see them repeated as long as those in charge learn from their mistakes and improve in the role they do im happy to have em.
to me there is one position twhere mistakes cant be tolerated and that is in recruiting. i dont have a problem with march but do have grave concerns about jackson and cameron.
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If we can't afford it we can't afford it but how long has Gary March been Pres/V.P and we are still on the bones of our behind.
The lack of effort put into this before this year is the issue, I think.
why dont we talk about since hes been president and actually had control.
seems to me a lot of posters want to repeat the leon daphne mistake all over. seems to me march has done many many good things for the club and yes along the way hes made his fair share of stuff ups.5.5 mil in debt and growing when march took over. it has gone down marginally. we had one man doing recruiting list management and running the footy dept. we had to get in part time recruiters to he;lp out. we had the worst facilities in the league we had few assitant coaches or develoment coaches. the list goes on and on and under march we have improved all those things and more while actually reducing the debt.yes he could have done things better and he could have made less mistakes but in the main hes done okay.i dont mind mistakes personally, i just dont want to see them repeated as long as those in charge learn from their mistakes and improve in the role they do im happy to have em.
to me there is one position twhere mistakes cant be tolerated and that is in recruiting. i dont have a problem with march but do have grave concerns about jackson and cameron.
Well done Claw, thats 2 positive threads you have started recently, are you really Claw !!!
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We have a mighty big hole to dig our sorry rses out of, hope we get there. :banghead
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If we can't afford it we can't afford it but how long has Gary March been Pres/V.P and we are still on the bones of our behind.
The lack of effort put into this before this year is the issue, I think.
why dont we talk about since hes been president and actually had control.
seems to me a lot of posters want to repeat the leon daphne mistake all over. seems to me march has done many many good things for the club and yes along the way hes made his fair share of stuff ups.5.5 mil in debt and growing when march took over. it has gone down marginally. we had one man doing recruiting list management and running the footy dept. we had to get in part time recruiters to he;lp out. we had the worst facilities in the league we had few assitant coaches or develoment coaches. the list goes on and on and under march we have improved all those things and more while actually reducing the debt.yes he could have done things better and he could have made less mistakes but in the main hes done okay.i dont mind mistakes personally, i just dont want to see them repeated as long as those in charge learn from their mistakes and improve in the role they do im happy to have em.
to me there is one position twhere mistakes cant be tolerated and that is in recruiting. i dont have a problem with march but do have grave concerns about jackson and cameron.
Well done Claw, thats 2 positive threads you have started recently, are you really Claw !!!
No...not the craw.....the craw
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I support this, Im not convinced having a standlaone VFL team would make a scrap of difference :shh
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If we can't afford it we can't afford it but how long has Gary March been Pres/V.P and we are still on the bones of our behind.
The lack of effort put into this before this year is the issue, I think.
why dont we talk about since hes been president and actually had control.
seems to me a lot of posters want to repeat the leon daphne mistake all over. seems to me march has done many many good things for the club and yes along the way hes made his fair share of stuff ups.5.5 mil in debt and growing when march took over. it has gone down marginally. we had one man doing recruiting list management and running the footy dept. we had to get in part time recruiters to he;lp out. we had the worst facilities in the league we had few assitant coaches or develoment coaches. the list goes on and on and under march we have improved all those things and more while actually reducing the debt.yes he could have done things better and he could have made less mistakes but in the main hes done okay.i dont mind mistakes personally, i just dont want to see them repeated as long as those in charge learn from their mistakes and improve in the role they do im happy to have em.
to me there is one position twhere mistakes cant be tolerated and that is in recruiting. i dont have a problem with march but do have grave concerns about jackson and cameron.
Well done Claw, thats 2 positive threads you have started recently, are you really Claw !!!
ive not really said anything different to what ive always said. what gets me into most trouble is my appraisal of our players that wont change either.
charlatans like clinton casey and the ineptness of beck the conning of miller ive railed against in the past. was critical of wallace but believe it or not i never really got into him too much plenty others were saying their piece on that front. its things like prioritising recruiting the way we use the rookie draft the lack of a rookie list the debt going up and up every yr these are things i have long yelled about.
the thing is i see march not as a failure but someone who has improved many of these things since he was in charge, and yes imo there are some things he could have done better and somethings he has just plain got wrong. as i said when he gets things wrong i can live with it as long as it doesnt send us down the gurgler and he learns from it.
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We are not raising $6 m unless there is a white knight waiting for something? Anything?
It looks more like we will raise $3m or low $3 m.
So I would question whether we are even capable of ever having a stand alone reserves side.
I'm agreeing with flagman , I'm frankly a bit tired of the broken promises and people like Gary march and Craig Cameron getting year after year of delivering mediocrity.
You reap what you sow.
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my understanding is the big end of town was waiting for the masses to do all they can before they close the gap once the last curtain is drawn :shh
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We are not raising $6 m unless there is a white knight waiting for something? Anything?
It looks more like we will raise $3m or low $3 m.
So I would question whether we are even capable of ever having a stand alone reserves side.
I'm agreeing with flagman , I'm frankly a bit tired of the broken promises and people like Gary march and Craig Cameron getting year after year of delivering mediocrity.
You reap what you sow.
I agree about the FTF right now I don't think we will get the $6mil. I reckon we will get around $4-$4.2mil.
I was always of the belief that a stand alone VFL side in 2012 was always along shot unless the FTF was at $4mil right now. After the gala when we only raised $2.4 I thought it was going to be tough.
Now that the AFL have changed the rules regarding stand alone teams then I am not sure exactly what people expect the CLub to do? Put into place something they cannot afford simple to appease people?
Having said that I think we will eventually have our own stand alone VFL team but I think (rightly) it needs to be done once the debt is gone and other more important areas in the footy dept are addressed.
Absolutely no point in having a VFL side if you cannot afford to maintain long term.
Regarding suppposed broken promises from people Gary March. I am not quite sure where exactly have they broken their word on a stand alone VFL side.
I've said numerous times it was made very clear when the FTF was launched that there were a number of things they wanted to do, they explained why the figure they were after was $6mil. At the gala dinner they gave numerous scenarios of what they would do based on the different levels of funds raised. So how have they broken thier word?
It seems to me that alot of people have seen the words "stand alone VFL team" and thought that's going to happen. There was no fine print it was clear from day of the FTF what needed to happen. Bottom line is it will happen when we have the funds to run it long term.
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Can someone explain to me why it costs so much more to be stand alone?
I wouldn't have thought Coburg would have 2 sticks to rub together and I would have imagined we pay most of the costs currently anyway?
TBR Geelong said a few years ago it cost them around $400k-$500k to run their VFL side
First thing is the licence fee for AFL teams fielding their own VFL team, Caro said in the article that it is currently around $130k and likely to rise. VFL teams pay considerable (read a lot) less than this.
The other costs involved include carrying the minimum number of VFL only listed payers (I think it is at least 8-10) outside of the normal AFL list. Then there is the extra staff for match day (eg trainers, doctors, physios) that are required. that's just a few things off the top of my head
Also, would argue strongly that financially Coburg are pretty strong now, their balance sheet certainly shows that, cash in the bank for example. Granted Richmond would contribute but I don't think it would be most of their costs
Thanks WP. :thumbsup
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Absolutely no point in having a VFL side if you cannot afford to maintain long term.
Regarding suppposed broken promises from people Gary March. I am not quite sure where exactly have they broken their word on a stand alone VFL side.
I've said numerous times it was made very clear when the FTF was launched that there were a number of things they wanted to do, they explained why the figure they were after was $6mil. At the gala dinner they gave numerous scenarios of what they would do based on the different levels of funds raised. So how have they broken thier word?
It is probably less about broken promises than our club being enablers of below average management talent.
FFS, Gary March has been on the board how long?
A LEADER sees into the future, compares it to the current position and enables the future through a vision, a plan, a roadmap whatever you want to call it.
Like Benny Gales now doing.
March has sat on his hands before riding on the coattails of Bennys vision.
I know he employed him but why couldn't he have articulated this vision when he came on - even as President.
We might now have a stand alone team in the 2's.
We might have established a recruiting infrastructure that delivered a better draft record that we now have.
Its just effing sad.
W
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STRIPES its been 30 years buddy. We dont have time. Time is of the essence. Its running out. A 50 year old 30 years ago is now 80 years old. Im 41 in 30 years Ill be 71. Stuff patience. We want action NOW! We want our reserves side NOW! Its time RFC admin went hard at achieving their goals NOW or they should go home!
Flagman: the FTF was step up for a reason, to firstly get rid of the debt and then create a 'war chest" of money for us to compete in areas (eg recruiting, player development, VFL team etc) where other clubs are ahead of us.
It was made very clear that to achieve all those things on the list they needed $6mil. We currently have $2.8mil half way through a 12 month campaign to raise the grand total. They also made it clear what the priorities would be based on how much they raise.
On top of that the AFL have obviously clearly changed the rules regarding stand alone VFL sides by saying that what ever you decide for 2012 you are locked into until the end of 2014.
So if you want VFL reserves side; what out of all the other things the Club's listed as wanting to do based on how much is raised by the FTF do they not do so they field a VFL side?
Perhaps they not worry about paying any debt off and just keep paying $500k interest? Perhaps we continue to pay on 92.5% of the salary cap rather than paying 100%? Perhaps we don't worry about extra resoucres for recruiting or sports science and fitenss?
Bottom line is with out the $$$$ you cannot have/do everything, things need to be prioritised, that's what they've done.
If you honestly believe the stand alone VFL team is the most pressing issue they need to address then that is fair enough but then you cannot complain if the debt doesn't go or there isn't enough recruiting resources etc
wasnt it after the first 2mill we put 1 mill on the debt and 1 mill on the resurfacing
at 4mill we put another mill on debt and the other mill goes towards setting up a standalone VFL side?
and then if we got 6 mill another mill to debt and the remaining mill in the warchest?
so at the end of it we wouldnt even pay off our debt of 4.5mill? lol
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wasnt it after the first 2mill we put 1 mill on the debt and 1 mill on the resurfacing
at 4mill we put another mill on debt and the other mill goes towards setting up a standalone VFL side?
and then if we got 6 mill another mill to debt and the remaining mill in the warchest?
so at the end of it we wouldnt even pay off our debt of 4.5mill? lol
Yeah it goes something like that. Although for memory they said at the FTF that paying 100% of the salary cap was before the VFL side of things
But the point is we pay $500k on our current debt reduce it by half or 2/3rds and you half the interest bill which automaticall frees up regular budgeted income to poured back into footy
But
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They've tried to raise the funds but fallen short. Very disappointing.
The rich clubs have an ever increasing advantage.
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They've tried to raise the funds but fallen short. Very disappointing.
The rich clubs have an ever increasing advantage.
Still plenty of time to go, we are only 6 months through and have raised nearly half the amount we want. As far as I am aware there should be more events coming up to try bring us to the $6mil.
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They've tried to raise the funds but fallen short. Very disappointing.
The rich clubs have an ever increasing advantage.
Still plenty of time to go, we are only 6 months through and have raised nearly half the amount we want. As far as I am aware there should be more events coming up to try bring us to the $6mil.
Correct still more things planned between now and Feb 2012 when it ends
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RICHMOND:
Tiger coach Damien Hardwick has made no secret of his wish to have a standalone team in the VFL and it is one of the outcomes the clubs hopes to achieve from its Fighting Tiger Fund.
But it is a while away. A bit like the Demons and Casey, this is a partnership that endures rather than thrives. If the Tigers manage to clear their debt and have some money left in the bank, expect them to bolt from this arrangement at the first opportunity.
Read more about all other clubs here: http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/119734/default.aspx
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The initial plan for the FTF was to run it for 12 months but one of the questions in the member survery was to have the FTF continue year after year. I'm presuming they meant say one game and/or event per year organised to go towards the FTF. As for the target amount I think we cam get to $4m inside 12 months. There was a table in one of the FTF brouchures stating how the money would be distributed and spent up to $2m, $4m and $6m. $4m would definitely cover the cost of halving the overdraft and realigning and resurfacing Punt Rd Oval IIRC.
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Found this post on another Forum courtesy of rosy23 she basically emailed the club to get some clarification a while back as to where the money will be spent and this is what Gale sent back to her.
Dear Rosy,
Firstly, thankyou for your outstanding support of the FTF. To raise $8000 thus far, in addition to your existing support is a terrific effort and one that is greatly valued. Could you please pass on my appreciation to all your Punt Road End subscribers.
Your question is a valid one and I would be only too happy to clarify our position.
I have consistently stated that the FTF is a collective, concerted effort to raise funds in order to retire debt and invest in our football program. Importantly, these objectives aren’t mutually exclusive in that we don’t have to pay down debt entirely before we can make the investments in football we need. Simply stated we will do both simultaneously hence the 1:1 debt/football ratio.
The “0” in the 3-0-75 Strategic Plan contemplates being debt free by 2014. The FTF launched just over 5 weeks ago will see us make significant inroads into the debt and lessen the interest burden. However, to direct all monies into debt at the expense of extremely important “mission critical” important investments in football is considered counter-productive.
Furthermore by reducing debt we reduce our annual interest expense and therefore free up further funds for future re-investment.
Our priorities in football are:
1. The redevelopment of the PRO.
· the historic relocation of the Richmond Cricket Club after 150 years at PRO means that we have access to the oval 365 days a year, 24/7
· also means that we have an opportunity to redevelop PRO into an elite, fit for purpose football facility both on and off field which is a massive benefit to our coaching staff and players
· redevelopment works will include removal of all cricket wicket tables, widen and lengthen oval, improve drainage and soil profile, laser level and resurface
· the works are estimated to cost in the vicinity of $1.5 million which is not budgeted for in the Club’s 2011 budget.
2. Pre-payment of TPP
· We are currently paying at the lower end of the salary cap as you would expect with a young and developing team. However, at the moment we are in a position where we could be pre-paying players’ salaries (i.e. paying a portion of the players’ 2012 salaries in 2011). By not prepaying salaries we are “wasting” the difference between our current player payments and the salary cap. That is, this increment is lost and not made available for us in future years.
· Should we prepay salaries in this way we are freeing up room in our salary cap in future years. This places us in an excellent position to both retain our emerging playing list and attract elite players to our Club. This is particularly relevant at the current time as pressure to retain players intensifies in light of the introduction of the Gold Coast Suns and Greater Western Sydney, and the introduction of “free agency”.
1. A RFC reserves team
· Our alignment with Coburg is a very strong one. The Coburg Football Club is well governed by Bill Balakis and his administration. However, we believe that to best prepare our young players for the elite AFL standard of competition we need to control their development in every way. Accordingly, we believe having a standalone team in the VFL competition ensures that the players are exclusively educated in our game style, not that of another VFL Club with its own set of needs / circumstances / objectives / etc. Furthermore, by having a standalone VFL side we can ensure that none of our listed / rookie listed players are forced to play in the VFL Reserves competition which is a long way from AFL standard.
2. High performance
· Whilst the Football Department have relocated into our state of the art Punt Road Oval facilities, we believe that there are further improvements that can be made in terms of high performance standards. Additional resources in terms of human capital and equipment have been identified that would complement our desire to provide the best possible high performance culture in the AFL.
The diagram below gives broad indication of what might be achieved given different levels of funds raised over the course of the campaign.
Finally, in response to your question, all proceeds raised through the FTF will be re-invested in the 50;50 debt / football ratio, not just those proceeds raised on Thursday night.
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/rosy_pre/Richmond.png)
Warm regards
Brendon
I'm not to sure if I'm allowed to post links to other Forums but if it's ok and needed let me know I'll put the link in, and once again all credit goes to rosy23.