One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on September 22, 2011, 04:46:26 AM

Title: Pass mark next year?
Post by: one-eyed on September 22, 2011, 04:46:26 AM
We know the Club has talked about finals in 2012 even though we are still mostly a very young side.

What in your opinion would be a pass mark next year for the team?
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Him on September 22, 2011, 05:23:07 AM
Finals
 :thumbsup
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Chuck17 on September 22, 2011, 06:22:54 AM
A full clean out of all the spuds who cant kick
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: tiger101 on September 22, 2011, 06:29:19 AM
The sky's the limit but anywhere between 12 - 7 would be good.
The main thing I'll be looking for next year is our defence being injury free and getting games together. We had the third highest against score's this year.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: eliminator on September 22, 2011, 06:40:03 AM
Need to draft well this year and delist a few to make an improvement next year. Agree need to be injury free and have a stable line up in defence to see real improvement
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: WilliamPowell on September 22, 2011, 06:54:53 AM
Too many variables to be honest

A injury free run and you can say finals are a possibility.

Get a few injuries especially to key players and with our lack of depth things can turn to poop pretty quickly

Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Penelope on September 22, 2011, 07:50:13 AM
The club expects finals next year.

Hardwick has said they achieved their aim of getting a certain amount of games into the youngsters over his first two seasons and now the emphasis will shift towards winning games and players earning their spots rather than gifted for the sake of development( I know that will cause consternation in relation to selections during the year though  ;D).

So baring a bad injury run, anything short of finals, even if just making up the numbers, which is most probable, will be a fail mark, for the club and Hardwick.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Francois Jackson on September 22, 2011, 08:05:51 AM
finals nothing more nothing less

Anything below where we have finished i would say bye Dimma hello Malthouse

Thats unless we have a year like Freo just had with such injuries

Pressure is on. I like it

Everyone knows we need to make finals from the coach, players and supporters

Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: JVT on September 22, 2011, 08:47:05 AM
finals nothing more nothing less

Anything below where we have finished i would say bye Dimma hello Malthouse

Thats unless we have a year like Freo just had with such injuries

Pressure is on. I like it

Everyone knows we need to make finals from the coach, players and supporters
Agreed, finals the pass mark now with 2 years of development gone. We will continue to develop and naturally win more games, finals is definitely attainable and that is what we need to achieve. Anything lower than an 8th place finish is a failure of a season.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Chuck17 on September 22, 2011, 08:52:07 AM
Ahhhhhh I remember fondly the last time we had to make finals or  bust, what a special time that was. Oh well at least we have four genuine Players now to carry the rest.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: MADTIGER2010 on September 22, 2011, 09:28:28 AM
finals nothing more nothing less

Anything below where we have finished i would say bye Dimma hello Malthouse

Dumb post
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Sabretooth on September 22, 2011, 09:39:32 AM
Not so dumb Mad one.

Hardwick has shown some degree of ability in developing players, but has yet to show tactical nous.

If the Tigers have a poor season or just miss finals due to a couple of games having been out coached, the patience of the Richmond faithful will be sorely tested, and Malthouse will loom as the holy grail.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Chuck17 on September 22, 2011, 09:53:16 AM
Wouldn't it be interesting if malthouse or say another proven cOach came to rfc and still failed I wonder where peePs would look next for the easy fix (apart from bagging a few of our dud players)
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: cub on September 22, 2011, 10:06:56 AM
No excuses, sick of excuses - Finals is a pass anything less FAIL.
Time to stand up
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Francois Jackson on September 22, 2011, 10:11:11 AM
got nothing to do with bagging our players or bagging the coach.

we are a side capable of matching it with any team that finished between 6-18. The bar has been raised since we have beaten the sides we have and finished where we finished.

Those are the facts.

Like i said unless its injury related finals or bust. If Essendon can finish in the 8 with the likes of Hille, Ryder and Davey then we can with the likes of Jack, Dusty Cotch and Lids.

For too long we have accepted finishing outside the to because thats whats accepted at our club but when you see teams we can beat like Bummers, Sydney all playing off in finals well the equation is pretty simple.

Finals 2012
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: tony_montana on September 22, 2011, 11:28:05 AM
we need to find out that we can add another 5-6 players to our longterm plans, they dont have to be champion players, just solid afl level footballers... - like we did this season with Vickery, Rance, Conca, Batchelor, Houli, Nahas and Grigg. We still have too many question marks on too many players from young players still developing and downright duds like Jackson, White, Farmer, McGuance, Thursfield, Connors, Moore(retiring?), Edwards, Nason, Graham, Browne for me to mark us on pure win loss.

If we can get say Helbig, Derickx, Astbury, Griff as well as a couple of draftees and F/S Morris to step up and show, like the group I mentioned earlier, that they are long term players for this club then I will consider it a success. Add to that a strong draft next season and then I say we have enough squad quality to talk serious turkey re finals campaigns for 2013 onwards. Right now we dont have the cattle, we are not ready yet. Will need to have a lot of luck to make it - The club made a mistake publicly stating they are going for finals next year imo
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Penelope on September 22, 2011, 12:10:30 PM
No excuses, sick of excuses - Finals is a pass anything less FAIL.
Time to stand up

Would an injury run like freo experienced this year be a valid reason/excuse?

As i've asked jackstar, without ever getting an answer, what is the difference between a reason and an excuse?
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Him on September 22, 2011, 12:17:28 PM
No excuses, sick of excuses - Finals is a pass anything less FAIL.
Time to stand up

Would an injury run like freo experienced this year be a valid reason/excuse?

As i've asked jackstar, without ever getting an answer, what is the difference between a reason and an excuse?

a reason is the logical set of events that explains why something has happened
 
an excuse is a reason used to shift blame onto someone else
 
 :thumbsup
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Penelope on September 22, 2011, 12:24:31 PM
thanks  ::)
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: MADTIGER2010 on September 22, 2011, 12:25:48 PM
Not so dumb Mad one.

Hardwick has shown some degree of ability in developing players, but has yet to show tactical nous.

If the Tigers have a poor season or just miss finals due to a couple of games having been out coached, the patience of the Richmond faithful will be sorely tested, and Malthouse will loom as the holy grail.

Hardwick has done a great job. The game plan will work completely when then list is 100% turned over and ready to play the game plan. His chances of getting sacked next year are 0.0000000000000000000001%.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Sabretooth on September 22, 2011, 12:38:25 PM
Can I put a dollar on the odds you're offering there?  :lol

Ah the much lauded game plane, can you tell me what it is?
From what I saw the style of play changed from week to week and what we started with, had metamorphed into something quite different by the end of the year.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Dubstep Dookie on September 22, 2011, 01:35:15 PM
Pass mark?

Probably a minimum of 11 wins - keep the curve heading upwards. I guess that means finals most years. 
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: cub on September 22, 2011, 02:20:07 PM
No excuses, sick of excuses - Finals is a pass anything less FAIL.
Time to stand up

Would an injury run like freo experienced this year be a valid reason/excuse?



Yes - But it wont happen, besides it wont take near as much with us for us to come back really quick.
Major injuries to 1 or 2 keys aside - No excuses.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Penelope on September 22, 2011, 03:38:53 PM
Yeah, i cant see anything besides that.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: TigerLand on September 22, 2011, 04:46:16 PM
I couldn't care less where we finish next year.

A pass mark is done with list management.

If we make the hard decisions on Jackson, Edwards and co and bring in some untried kids I'd rather 1 more year of development then trying a finals tilt with what we have. Our list isn't good enough yet.

Pushing for finals would be a disaster for mine. Espeially considering our premiership window will compete with Melbourne, GC and GWS. Would be a disaster to finish middle of the road like an Essendon with average players Edwards and Jackson.

By all means if we make these decisions and bring in some young state talent and draft well and guys like Conca, Helbig, Astbury, Post improve sky is the limit.

I don't want to hold onto average players and finish middle of the road maybe pinch 7th or 8th spot, thats the limit of the current list IMO.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Dubstep Dookie on September 22, 2011, 06:06:31 PM
Problem is it's a bad year for a clean out, there's just too much chaff in the wheat at Tigerland. Draft prospects after our first or second pick are going to be a massive roll of the dice.

I reckon we'll only turnover 4-5 from our regular list.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on September 22, 2011, 06:11:14 PM
The pass mark this year is as much for the coach as it is for the team.
Dimma needs to continue to draft the kids and play the kids. No quick fixes and no overpaying from trades from our behalf.
Furthermore kids retained on the list or those who showed improvement to keep on improving.
We had the 15th place finish last year the 12th place finish this year and based on who we beat and the expected slide from some sides next year we need to aim for at least 7th or 8th place finish.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Smokey on September 22, 2011, 06:38:34 PM
got nothing to do with bagging our players or bagging the coach.

we are a side capable of matching it with any team that finished between 6-18. The bar has been raised since we have beaten the sides we have and finished where we finished.

Those are the facts.

Like i said unless its injury related finals or bust. If Essendon can finish in the 8 with the likes of Hille, Ryder and Davey then we can with the likes of Jack, Dusty Cotch and Lids.

For too long we have accepted finishing outside the to because thats whats accepted at our club but when you see teams we can beat like Bummers, Sydney all playing off in finals well the equation is pretty simple.

Finals 2012

Good post Daniel, fully agree.   :thumbsup
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: tigtuff12 on September 22, 2011, 07:29:20 PM
Too many variables to be honest

A injury free run and you can say finals are a possibility.

Get a few injuries especially to key players and with our lack of depth things can turn to poop pretty quickly

^ agree - big if's on where we'll finish inc Ben G, Astbury, Grimes, Moore etc staying on the park...continued development of the guys who saw action this year should help push us up a bit but think we're bottom rungs of 8 - 12 again with another 12 month of "game time into young blokes"...especially considering we need to clean out a few, draft/trade for a few & continue the mass turn over from the last 24months...think it's hard to put a pass mark on next year without seeing how hard CC & BH are willing to prune the list & be aggressive in the trade
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Dubstep Dookie on September 22, 2011, 07:55:54 PM
More I think about it the more Benny G looks like the injured prophecy coming true  :banghead
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: tigtuff12 on September 22, 2011, 08:00:05 PM
More I think about it the more Benny G looks like the injured prophecy coming true  :banghead

^ hope not dookie...big things needed of Big Benny G - perfect build for it (bar the busted shoulders lol) & really provides a strong target/adds another dimension to the forward line...

...crossing my fingers (and anything else I can cross that only causes "minimal discomfort") that he stays fit & healthy, gets a solid preseason & has a TV breakout year next year...

or else... :banghead
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Dubstep Dookie on September 22, 2011, 08:21:09 PM
This wouldnt be tiger tuff jay from YnB?

If so, welcome from TA!
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Willy on September 22, 2011, 08:35:50 PM
Holy eff-balls.

I had no idea that you were TA, Dooks you covert son of a mule!
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Dubstep Dookie on September 22, 2011, 08:46:39 PM
Holy eff-balls.

I had no idea that you were TA, Dooks you covert son of a mule!

 :lol
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: tigtuff12 on September 23, 2011, 06:32:37 AM
This wouldnt be tiger tuff jay from YnB?

If so, welcome from TA!

...nah it's not sorry mate - just another knucklehead with a highly inventive user name :)

cheers though  :cheers
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Dubstep Dookie on September 23, 2011, 12:20:24 PM
This wouldnt be tiger tuff jay from YnB?

If so, welcome from TA!

...nah it's not sorry mate - just another knucklehead with a highly inventive user name :)

cheers though  :cheers

Welcome nonetheless mate.  :cheers
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: yandb on September 23, 2011, 01:23:59 PM
Win at least one final should be the benchmark for next season. Any thing less woud be an underachivement.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: WA Tiger on September 24, 2011, 05:54:38 PM
Finals, end of story, if we are passed by clubs like GC than we are as weak as pee, must play finals!!!

Must also beat the Blues in round 1, no excuses there either, we need to stop crapping on about rebuilding..start winning bloody games against teams like the Blues.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Penelope on September 25, 2011, 08:05:12 AM
Oh no, we are doomed.

WAT has gone back to wanting us to win again. The spoon is a monty now :P
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: mat073 on September 25, 2011, 08:49:52 AM
Finals, end of story, if we are passed by clubs like GC than we are as weak as pee, must play finals!!!

Must also beat the Blues in round 1, no excuses there either, we need to stop crapping on about rebuilding..start winning bloody games against teams like the Blues.

Blues own us at the moment WAT.....2 of our last 3 contests have been epic failures. They won 6 more games than us this year and their percentage was 44% higher.

No more "Port/Gold Coast " fiascos in 2012.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: 10 FLAGS on September 25, 2011, 09:01:14 AM
A full clean out of all the spuds who cant kick

this  :gotigers
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: MADTIGER2010 on September 25, 2011, 09:22:06 AM
A pass mark is 50% win loss ratio and 50% for and against score. So we can pass finishing 9th, but we don't want that  8)
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: smasha on September 26, 2011, 10:48:13 AM
Wish we actually finished 9th because an improvement is 8th.

Finals will be the passmark but I wonder if we finish 9th,what would everyone think about our season?

I know the supporters will not have to push Hardwick out the door because the media will do a much better job of it.

Even if we finish 9th,Dimma deserves 1 more year.

Interesting times especially in the forums lol if we don't make the 8.

Alot of football fans I speak to ,reckon 2 years and we will be in the finals.


If we don't make the 8,the media wil make out the world is falling down at Punt Road and try to push Dimma out the door themselves and say "not good enough as acoach ,bla bla bla.

The next month Dimma will be appointed by another club and the mdia will do a 360,"what a great appointment by so and so to get a great coach like Damian Hardwick.

LOL the media are evil.

Not all,KB is great.

You know the ones I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Willy on September 26, 2011, 01:09:50 PM
While its a possibility, I still dont believe we are ready for finals. No point putting additional pressure on the club and ourselves by bullish talk of spetembe, regardless of what the club has said in the past.
I know we have been waiting for ages but that is beside the point. We need to step back and look at the facts.
Dimma has had two years to overturn a horrible list during compromised drafts. I think he has done a serviceable job, but the list simply is not ready yet.We have a super young team that lost to GC and PA this year. We still have average players in pivotal positions.
I will be hoping for finals, but I'l be focus on other indicators next year, such as finding more A and B graders to goth with our promising young brigade.

I think the list is in good shape for sustained success in 2013 and beyond.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: gerkin greg on September 26, 2011, 01:10:51 PM
Finals

Only a rabble like the Demons think 3 years developing outside the 8 is acceptable
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: gerkin greg on September 26, 2011, 01:12:47 PM
Holy eff-balls.

I had no idea that you were TA, Dooks you covert son of a mule!

Slick Willy indeed  :nope
lmao
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Willy on September 26, 2011, 01:18:43 PM
Finals

Only a rabble like the Demons think 3 years developing outside the 8 is acceptable

To me its not about what is 'acceptable' or not. Its about what state the list is in.
Im not saying that we wont make it. Just that the season wont necessarily be a 'failure' if we dont.

I bloody well hope we do, though.
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Willy on September 26, 2011, 01:19:43 PM
Holy eff-balls.

I had no idea that you were TA, Dooks you covert son of a mule!

Slick Willy indeed  :nope
lmao

Im special.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: gerkin greg on September 26, 2011, 01:27:41 PM
To me its not about what is 'acceptable' or not. Its about what state the list is in.
Im not saying that we wont make it. Just that the season wont necessarily be a 'failure' if we dont.

I bloody well hope we do, though.

It'll be a failure, maybe not a total failure, but a failure first and foremost
When you start thinking not making the finals as anything other than a fail you're on the doomed trawler to tunaville
Title: Re: Pass mark next year?
Post by: Sabretooth on September 26, 2011, 02:04:36 PM
It's a combination of things that give you the pass mark.

Give up very little to obtain Maric.
Sound trading of existing players, only to enable upskilling & list need.
Draft the best possible player available, for all our picks.
Upgrades of off field support roles.
Finishing 8th is a bare pass.
Percentage at 100% or better.
Wins = or > losses
Supporter numbers grow.
Debt is reduced or eliminated.
Stability at the club.