One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: MintOnLamb on July 15, 2012, 10:30:40 PM
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Open for discussion.
The last minutes play against Gold Coast summed up our culture over the last 25 years.
Instead of trying to win by as much as possible when we have the upper hand and run of play,We crawl into a negative shell and fear of loss.
We lack self belief. We have the ability, we have the passion.
I would rather we went down fighting than dishing up that shocking, negative, keeping off, slow down play.
Until our team, our coaching staff, our club and supporters embrace a different attitude,
We will maintain this sort of negative attitude and culture.
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as bizarre as this sounds,this embarasing loss might just be the making of this playing group..Lets see
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as bizarre as this sounds,this embarasing loss might just be the making of this playing group..Lets see
I find myself agreeing with this. Just quickly though, MintOnLamb, slowing it down was in-fact the right thing to do in the situation. It doesn't mean keeping's off chipping around in the back 50, all it means is just taking their time to find a good forward 50 entry and of course that will take time. We lost due to stupid errors by players, who will grow from it.
Now I was stuffin as p'ed off as any of the blokes on here when we lost this game. I normally control my temper but this really push me over the limit. We were always going to face really bad losses against clubs, were not at the level yet obviously where we can travel interstate with a winning mentality. We will get there though. Goldcoast actually played really well lets not forget that.
Not using it as an excuse but they showed some real heart and courage which our players didn't show ( apart from the 3rd quarter ).
In the press conference post game, Dimma said that he believes the loss will go one of 2 ways,
1) We will grow from it and learn and progress as a group
2) We will lose confidence and crawl back into our shells.
I hope and believe that we can progress as group from here, because that's what good clubs do. We have a stuffin solid quality of players coming in and our finals chances really aren't over,
but we will have to be right on top of our game. As a true supporter I'm going to believe we can bounce back and progress as a group, in stead of blaming the coach or Gale for selling our game.
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Open for discussion.
The last minutes play against Gold Coast summed up our culture over the last 25 years.
Instead of trying to win by as much as possible when we have the upper hand and run of play,We crawl into a negative shell and fear of loss.
We lack self belief. We have the ability, we have the passion.
I would rather we went down fighting than dishing up that shocking, negative, keeping off, slow down play.
Until our team, our coaching staff, our club and supporters embrace a different attitude,
We will maintain this sort of negative attitude and culture.
So why is it a Culture issue as aposed to a inexperience issue? We literally had our seconds side in, we had no leaders on the field in the dying moments and our the players that are just not up to it proved exactly that! I don't understand how Culture is to blame here?
Go back to the start of the season when we were full strenght and fighting games out against the top sides, the same top sides that have consistently flogged us over the last couple of seasons! Where we're our Culture issues at the beginning of the season? If it wasas bad as you say why wern't we just laying down and letting sides flog us by 100 points again? This rot has set in with injury and having to expose our youth and lack of real depth is costing us.
At the end of the day we have still improoved on last season by miles, we haven't gone backwards and the stats show we have Actualy been mentally tougher this season than the last 5 or 6 so how you blame a close loss with a team fielding 6 or 7 seconds players on culture is beyond me?
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
Watching footy classified too? :lol
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
And they didn't grow their's overnight either.
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No but they have never bottomed out and have unknowns playing good team footy
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
spot on, you heard it too
Thats what makes clubs. Strong people who can lead a group of men
Jackson in the leadership group. What hope do we have :banghead :banghead
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
you sure its not the simple fact they have about 27 players in the critical 23 plus age group. last time i looked richmond barely had 10 or 12.
they have at least 10 100 gamers and probably about 12 15 players who have 50 to 99 games. how many do we have.
said at the start of the yr most of their list kpis pointed to top 4. just wasnt sure about their quality still aint.
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
And they didn't grow their's overnight either.
They have had it for as long as we have had a poor culture.."The Bloods"....
So why couldn't we adopt the same culture when they did, or two years ago, or last year, or this year????
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Need to work on our second quarters. Should have never let them get ahead by that much
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
you sure its not the simple fact they have about 27 players in the critical 23 plus age group. last time i looked richmond barely had 10 or 12.
they have at least 10 100 gamers and probably about 12 15 players who have 50 to 99 games. how many do we have.
said at the start of the yr most of their list kpis pointed to top 4. just wasnt sure about their quality still aint.
Of course that matters but we have had that age group of players before under Wallace, spud etc etc and guess what we still didn't have a club that played for each other
When the going get tough at Tiger land everyone crumbles like a sack of poo
Until we adopt the bloods don't flinch don't give up mantra we will continue to struggle year in year out.
We need warriors who will fight to the death for the jumper not prima donna down hill skiers
Week in week out you will only the usual guys like Cotch who believe in that mantra
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Culture is the biggest issue that's never been fixed in 30 years.
It shouldve been the first thing addressed by any coach that walks in but all have failed this far.
As Richmond supporters we have a deep seated fear that no one can deny.
The fear that we will lose the big blockbuster game & not just lose but get thrashed.
The fear that we will lose the crunch game.
the fear that we will lose the game we "should" win.
The fear that we will finish 9th.
The question is why are we all nervous when these games roll around year after year?
Because regardless of the coach or the players or the administration we know that our history over this last 30 years more times than not we've failed.
Sydney were a basket case but someone identified something wrong and fixed it. Now they play finals consistantly. Many write them off but they keep on performing. They have many players from other teams traded to them but those players become better.
Collingwood won their second wooden spoon in 1999. Mick & Eddie came in 2000 identified the problems and they were playing in a grand final in 2002 & 2003.
Essendon continue to make finals consistantly. As much as so many bombers people didn't like knights they still made finals and will again this year with more injuries than any other team.
What do these teams have? The secret ingredient that gets them over the line. The one thing that can regardless of the circumstances or players or injuries are still competative inba big game, gets them over the line in a crunch game, makes them win the games they should win and gets them into the finals when it seems they don't deserve it?
CULTURE!
These teams have a culture of excellence, culture of winning, culture that demands success.
We only dream of finals, hope of playing finals.
We have a culture of mediocrity.
We have a loser culture.
We don't have a culture that demands excellence.
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No but they have never bottomed out and have unknowns playing good team footy
Short memory there Jack. They went 70 odd years between flags and back in the 60's - 70's and one of the league's legends, Bobby Skilton, only ever played 1 (losing 1st Semi) final in his 300+ game, Brownlow winning career.
Between 1990 and 1995 they finished 13/15, 12/15, 15/15, 15/15, 15/15, 12/15 before making the finals under Eade.
Between 1983 and 1985 they finished 11/12, 10/12, 11/12 before making the finals under Hafey.
Between 1970 and 1981 (the year they moved to Sydney) they finished in the bottom half 9/11 times and bottom 3 4/11 times.
By Paul Roos own admission, he and his group identified the need for a culture change and set about doing just that when he was appointed in 2003, ending up in a flag in '05 and a legacy of creating a club culture that now stands above most others for teamwork and attitude. In taking those steps he was able to fast-track on the back of a largely talented and finals experienced playing group from the Eade days, making his task a lot easier on his path to success. Expecting the same outcome in the same timeframe from Hardwick with the list he inherited from the debilitating Frawley/Wallace era is just not possible or fair.
And once you have turned the culture around, it becomes a lot easier to develop good players and solid citizens who will stand up to most of the rigours of senior AFL footy - a bit like the Australian cricket team back in the day, where it was harder to get out of the team than it was to get in.
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
And they didn't grow their's overnight either.
They have had it for as long as we have had a poor culture.."The Bloods"....
So why couldn't we adopt the same culture when they did, or two years ago, or last year, or this year????
We did start 2 years ago WAT but Rome wasn't built in a day, you can't just flick a switch and say "culture - on".
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Nice constructive points, especially talking about identification of why we are falling over and the overall worry of why it is a continuing problem, especially over such a long period.
Are we following our most famous mantra
"...THE FIGHTING FURY, ...IF WE'RE BEHIND....WE'LL FIGHT AND FIGHT AND WIN....WE'LL NEVER WEAKEN 'TILL THE FINAL SIREN SOUNDS....STRONG AND WE'RE BOLD..."
This is our business plan, the best song in the AFL, are we living up to it?
I am a realist, we are a long way away from a flag, but I can see we are on the right track, but in the meantime, all i ask is that we show fury, fight and boldness.
Is this in our current culture??
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Nice constructive points, especially talking about identification of why we are falling over and the overall worry of why it is a continuing problem, especially over such a long period.
Are we following our most famous mantra
"...THE FIGHTING FURY, ...IF WE'RE BEHIND....WE'LL FIGHT AND FIGHT AND WIN....WE'LL NEVER WEAKEN 'TILL THE FINAL SIREN SOUNDS....STRONG AND WE'RE BOLD..."
This is our business plan, the best song in the AFL, are we living up to it?
I am a realist, we are a long way away from a flag, but I can see we are on the right track, but in the meantime, all i ask is that we show fury, fight and boldness.
Is this in our current culture??
Good post MOL, I don't think it is ingrained in our culture as yet but I believe it they are working at it and as with all things substantial and new, it's a work in progress. And you have nailed it by identifying what we need to stand for in the words to our song. :clapping
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
I wouldn't be putting up the Sydney Swans as a model of what "culture" should be. I haven't forgotten the HUGE leg-up that the AFL handed this mob to ensure success in the otherwise indifferent Sydney market. First there was the fact that Tony Lockett was all ready to sign on the dotted line at Richmond, before the AFL poured cold water on that deal. And who can forget Barry Hall being eligible to play in their Premiership win, despite belting a bloke the week before?
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
And they didn't grow their's overnight either.
They have had it for as long as we have had a poor culture.."The Bloods"....
So why couldn't we adopt the same culture when they did, or two years ago, or last year, or this year????
We did start 2 years ago WAT but Rome wasn't built in a day, you can't just flick a switch and say "culture - on".
How come Hird did it, old mate at the Crows has done it, Longmire has reinvented it and kept it going, mate have we laid a cobblestone yet... ;)
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
And they didn't grow their's overnight either.
They have had it for as long as we have had a poor culture.."The Bloods"....
So why couldn't we adopt the same culture when they did, or two years ago, or last year, or this year????
We did start 2 years ago WAT but Rome wasn't built in a day, you can't just flick a switch and say "culture - on".
How come Hird did it, old mate at the Crows has done it, Longmire has reinvented it and kept it going, mate have we laid a cobblestone yet... ;)
Many more than you give them credit for but you will just have to wait a while longer to see the path being laid. And I'm not going to bore the group by going on ad nauseum about the impossibility of comparison between your examples and our starting point - let's just agree to disagree on it. :thumbsup
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Culture is the biggest issue that's never been fixed in 30 years.
It shouldve been the first thing addressed by any coach that walks in but all have failed this far.
As Richmond supporters we have a deep seated fear that no one can deny.
The fear that we will lose the big blockbuster game & not just lose but get thrashed.
The fear that we will lose the crunch game.
the fear that we will lose the game we "should" win.
The fear that we will finish 9th.
The question is why are we all nervous when these games roll around year after year?
Because regardless of the coach or the players or the administration we know that our history over this last 30 years more times than not we've failed.
Sydney were a basket case but someone identified something wrong and fixed it. Now they play finals consistantly. Many write them off but they keep on performing. They have many players from other teams traded to them but those players become better.
Collingwood won their second wooden spoon in 1999. Mick & Eddie came in 2000 identified the problems and they were playing in a grand final in 2002 & 2003.
Essendon continue to make finals consistantly. As much as so many bombers people didn't like knights they still made finals and will again this year with more injuries than any other team.
What do these teams have? The secret ingredient that gets them over the line. The one thing that can regardless of the circumstances or players or injuries are still competative inba big game, gets them over the line in a crunch game, makes them win the games they should win and gets them into the finals when it seems they don't deserve it?
CULTURE!
These teams have a culture of excellence, culture of winning, culture that demands success.
We only dream of finals, hope of playing finals.
We have a culture of mediocrity.
We have a loser culture.
We don't have a culture that demands excellence.
Smart post and one of the best I've read
Why doesn't Mr claw explain to me what happened when we had players in his "missing" age group throughout the 80's, 90's and last decade
Il tell him. Different coach different players same result
The day I stop betting against RFC in games like Saturday, is the day in convinced we are removed from this never ending self doubt
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No such thing as culture. It's all about professional business personsell with sporting nous. Hird and Roos are the best examples. Essendon bit the bullet and got rid of knights because of a business ploy which they now are reaping the benefits on the field
Roos came from Fitzroy or poohole and look at Sydney they achieved the world under him. He's a successful businessman who settles for nothing less than perfect. Rfc refuses to go down the same path Carlton is doing the same rubbish with an illiterate president and a wombat brain for a coach
Rfc needs a business group with set kpi's and to be ruthless we have become a social boys club with an ok mentality and apologetic apathetic belief system
Youth and social workers are designed for people with their lives Ina desperate and ruined state not for businesses
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Our culture is building. Takes time.
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another thing that builds culture is going into defend your teammates
when was the last time you saw a RFC player do this????
When Morris was tee boned where was the mateship there. A few years ago remember Bowdon and Brown at the G running away against the pies i think.
Its taken Edwards 6 years to finally show some of this at the footy club. I like what im seeing with the bumping and pushing.
If we want to be taken serious we need to show no club we are affriad of them.
I cant stand jackson as a player and his misused aggression but one thing i cant fault the guy on is he is the first one to bat for his mates
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Jacko is a true mate you need when at war he's been sadly missed he gives tuck a chop out
Jacko would make a great coach bc he has nous loyalty courage and business intellect
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
And they didn't grow their's overnight either.
They have had it for as long as we have had a poor culture.."The Bloods"....
So why couldn't we adopt the same culture when they did, or two years ago, or last year, or this year????
We did start 2 years ago WAT but Rome wasn't built in a day, you can't just flick a switch and say "culture - on".
How come Hird did it, old mate at the Crows has done it, Longmire has reinvented it and kept it going, mate have we laid a cobblestone yet... ;)
When did Adelaide have a poo culture? They had a boring game plan. Can't remember the Bombers having a poo culture?
Carlton on the other hand... :shh
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Jacko is a true mate you need when at war he's been sadly missed he gives tuck a chop out
Jacko would make a great coach bc he has nous loyalty courage and business intellect
Your doing a great job of coming across as clueless IMHO ;D
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We will continue with the 30 yr plan
You enjoy the status quo
Losing to god coast suns every year
Rabble football club four you mrs intellect
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Culture
Sydney Swans :thumbsup
you sure its not the simple fact they have about 27 players in the critical 23 plus age group. last time i looked richmond barely had 10 or 12.
they have at least 10 100 gamers and probably about 12 15 players who have 50 to 99 games. how many do we have.
said at the start of the yr most of their list kpis pointed to top 4. just wasnt sure about their quality still aint.
Of course that matters but we have had that age group of players before under Wallace, spud etc etc and guess what we still didn't have a club that played for each other
When the going get tough at Tiger land everyone crumbles like a sack of poo
Until we adopt the bloods don't flinch don't give up mantra we will continue to struggle year in year out.
We need warriors who will fight to the death for the jumper not prima donna down hill skiers
Week in week out you will only the usual guys like Cotch who believe in that mantra
the simple fact that we have had to cut most of the players that fell into those brackets under wallace says one thing and only one thing. those players were not good enough.
will say again the only time you will get a winning culture is when you have enough players capable of winning on a regular basis.
we certainly dont we have maybe 15 16 players who are currently up to standard and thats it. the simple truth is is WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND WONT BE UNTIL WE MEET THE KPIS IN REGARDS THE LIST.
LOL CULTURE YOU BLOKES ARE IN CUCKOO LAND.
Whoops sorry caps on. you lot can pretend its culture all you like but lack of depth lack of quality, lack of age lack of experience and lack of structure will kill any side in the comp regardless of their culture.
one thing you can all bank on, without the necesary cattle culture doesnt even count. without enough playes capable of winning games we will never gain a winning culture regardless of whatever else we do.
you blokes have it wrong its not about culture but about the ABILITY TO WIN ON A CONSISTENT BASIS. We dont have the ability.