One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Stripes on January 30, 2013, 05:14:46 PM
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Just to waste some downtime :whistle .....Assuming all players are available and fit - which of these two teams would win and why?
Yellow Team
FB Morris Chaplin Darrou
HB Newman Grimes Ellis
C Grigg Tuck Jackson
HF King Elton O'Hanlon
FF A.Edwards Riewoldt Petterd
Foll Maric Deledio Helbig
Int Longergan Williams Derickx Sub
Black Team
FB Houli Rance Astbury
HB Dea Griffiths Conca
C Knights Foley Vlaustin
HF Nahas Vickery S.Edwards
FF McDonough McGuane White
Foll Stephenson Cotchin Martin
int Arnot McIntosh McBean Sub Verrier
I'm sure I've left someone of importance out or doubled someone up so please excuse me if I did.
:cheers
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I'd go black team, just because I think Foley, Arnot, Cotchin, Martin, and assuming Vlastuin around the ball would be tougher and offer more extractions. Conca, Knights, Sheds, and Nahas would be a handful on the outside for the Yellow team. The forward line might be a bit poo but if you fling it in there enough you're bound to score sooner or later. Just IMO ;D
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Close game but only because of Chimp. Riewoldt would destroy Rance. Someone on the black team should destroy Chaplin but no one there is capable of it. Vickery quite possibly though considering he would get some delivery since Riewoldt is on the other side.
Helbig starting on ball with Lonergan on the pine? :outtahere
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Close game but only because of Chimp. Riewoldt would destroy Rance. Someone on the black team should destroy Chaplin but no one there is capable of it. Vickery quite possibly though considering he would get some delivery since Riewoldt is on the other side.
Helbig starting on ball with Lonergan on the pine? :outtahere
Broadbeach Bullet + only kicking Vickery chest marks = domination dynasty :shh
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Yellow side
Has Maric and a stronger looking back line
Chaplin -v- McGuane sums it up really ;D
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whichever team cotch is in..its like having 2 extra players
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Yellow side
Has Maric and a stronger looking back line
Chaplin -v- McGuane sums it up really ;D
McGuane would easily break even with Chaplin. Too quick, stronger and he's not a pussy. Chaplin has more ability than McG but so does Jackstar
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whichever team cotch is in..its like having 2 extra players
X 2
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I think Maric v Stephenson would play a bigger part in the outcome than many may think. Cotch and co. used to have to rove to the opposition ruck and have to be reactive. We all saw what happened to our midfield when Gus had to cover Maric when we played one of the easy-beats of the competition.
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White is in both teams Stripes in the forward pocket. :banghead
Because of this I declare the match a draw. ;D
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White is in both teams Stripes in the forward pocket. :banghead
Because of this I declare the match a draw. ;D
There you go - Yellow Team is White free :P
Does mean it is down a player too though...
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I think Maric v Stephenson would play a bigger part in the outcome than many may think. Cotch and co. used to have to rove to the opposition ruck and have to be reactive. We all saw what happened to our midfield when Gus had to cover Maric when we played one of the easy-beats of the competition.
Chimp & Lids have won B&Fs playing along side Graham. Having a poo player in the ruck is a cop out for midfielders. A lot of the time a ruckman is just getting half a hand to it and trying to palm it where the voice is...and a lot of the time it's not an effective hitout anyway.Graham was actually better than any other ruckman out there. He may have been arse himself but the only time Gold Coast had a clear advantage at the stoppages was when Derickx rucked against Smith. Smith did FA and Derickx was a disgrace. I think you'll find the biggest reason we lost that game was because of blokes like Webberley, O'Hanlon, Moore, AMaric etc were out there having a kick. The ruck contest was pretty even and Graham had the better of Zac Smith when they competed against each other
But point taken on Big O v Ivan. You would hope Ivan would get the better of him convincingly but you never know. Big O did play some half decent footy with Geelong at times.
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I think Maric v Stephenson would play a bigger part in the outcome than many may think. Cotch and co. used to have to rove to the opposition ruck and have to be reactive. We all saw what happened to our midfield when Gus had to cover Maric when we played one of the easy-beats of the competition.
Chimp & Lids have won B&Fs playing along side Graham. Having a poo player in the ruck is a cop out for midfielders. A lot of the time a ruckman is just getting half a hand to it and trying to palm it where the voice is...and a lot of the time it's not an effective hitout anyway.Graham was actually better than any other ruckman out there. He may have been arse himself but the only time Gold Coast had a clear advantage at the stoppages was when Derickx rucked against Smith. Smith did FA and Derickx was a disgrace. I think you'll find the biggest reason we lost that game was because of blokes like Webberley, O'Hanlon, Moore, AMaric etc were out there having a kick. The ruck contest was pretty even and Graham had the better of Zac Smith when they competed against each other
But point taken on Big O v Ivan. You would hope Ivan would get the better of him convincingly but you never know. Big O did play some half decent footy with Geelong at times.
Played a fair bit of ruck in my younger days. Reckon I palmed it down to more opposition blokes calling my name. Jerks.
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That's how it is man. Mark Blake would out ruck most people in Australia, pity he can't get a kick.
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I think Maric v Stephenson would play a bigger part in the outcome than many may think. Cotch and co. used to have to rove to the opposition ruck and have to be reactive. We all saw what happened to our midfield when Gus had to cover Maric when we played one of the easy-beats of the competition.
Chimp & Lids have won B&Fs playing along side Graham. Having a poo player in the ruck is a cop out for midfielders. A lot of the time a ruckman is just getting half a hand to it and trying to palm it where the voice is...and a lot of the time it's not an effective hitout anyway.Graham was actually better than any other ruckman out there. He may have been arse himself but the only time Gold Coast had a clear advantage at the stoppages was when Derickx rucked against Smith. Smith did FA and Derickx was a disgrace. I think you'll find the biggest reason we lost that game was because of blokes like Webberley, O'Hanlon, Moore, AMaric etc were out there having a kick. The ruck contest was pretty even and Graham had the better of Zac Smith when they competed against each other
But point taken on Big O v Ivan. You would hope Ivan would get the better of him convincingly but you never know. Big O did play some half decent footy with Geelong at times.
I agree its a cop out, but you can't use B&F as evidence since they are "competing" against team mates roving to the same ruckman.
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I can see your argument but I don't believe it was mere coincidence that our midfield joined the elite of the competition in the same year we secured Maric. I think he has one of the best averages with hitouts to advance in the league and at the very least makes the rucking duel a stalemate which allows our midfielders a chance to win the ball off their own merit. Perhaps it is also a confidence issue too - they were always expecting the opposition ruckman to win so were more reactive where now they can afford to be more on the front foot. :-\
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It wasn't just hit outs from Maric that helped out our midfield, but his second efforts when the ball hit the turf. His aggressive attack on the loose ball or to block/sheppard is where here really was a level above Gus.
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It wasn't just hit outs from Maric that helped out our midfield, but his second efforts when the ball hit the turf. His aggressive attack on the loose ball or to block/sheppard is where here really was a level above Gus.
Great point :thumbsup
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Black team would win by about 10 goals
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Black team would win by about 10 goals
Why do you say that Rampstar?
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I think Maric v Stephenson would play a bigger part in the outcome than many may think. Cotch and co. used to have to rove to the opposition ruck and have to be reactive. We all saw what happened to our midfield when Gus had to cover Maric when we played one of the easy-beats of the competition.
Chimp & Lids have won B&Fs playing along side Graham. Having a poo player in the ruck is a cop out for midfielders. A lot of the time a ruckman is just getting half a hand to it and trying to palm it where the voice is...and a lot of the time it's not an effective hitout anyway.Graham was actually better than any other ruckman out there. He may have been arse himself but the only time Gold Coast had a clear advantage at the stoppages was when Derickx rucked against Smith. Smith did FA and Derickx was a disgrace. I think you'll find the biggest reason we lost that game was because of blokes like Webberley, O'Hanlon, Moore, AMaric etc were out there having a kick. The ruck contest was pretty even and Graham had the better of Zac Smith when they competed against each other
But point taken on Big O v Ivan. You would hope Ivan would get the better of him convincingly but you never know. Big O did play some half decent footy with Geelong at times.
I agree its a cop out, but you can't use B&F as evidence since they are "competing" against team mates roving to the same ruckman.
Yeah that's true. Although ChimpLids had 74 possies between them in the GC game when Goose was strutting around
I can see your argument but I don't believe it was mere coincidence that our midfield joined the elite of the competition in the same year we secured Maric. I think he has one of the best averages with hitouts to advance in the league and at the very least makes the rucking duel a stalemate which allows our midfielders a chance to win the ball off their own merit. Perhaps it is also a confidence issue too - they were always expecting the opposition ruckman to win so were more reactive where now they can afford to be more on the front foot. :-\
Yeah Maric is a quality player and no doubt he helped our midfield. However, Foley played 4 games in 2011 and Grigg was a decent at best player...Shane Tuck also spent most of the year in the magoos. Come 2012, Griggy's workrate became elite, Tucky was back to his best and Foley played a really good half a season of football. Maric was a massive bonus.
It wasn't just hit outs from Maric that helped out our midfield, but his second efforts when the ball hit the turf. His aggressive attack on the loose ball or to block/sheppard is where here really was a level above Gus.
Very true.
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Yeah Maric is a quality player and no doubt he helped our midfield. However, Foley played 4 games in 2011 and Grigg was a decent at best player...Shane Tuck also spent most of the year in the magoos. Come 2012, Griggy's workrate became elite, Tucky was back to his best and Foley played a really good half a season of football. Maric was a massive bonus.
+Chimp naturally progressing with a full pre season and body maturing + Deledio spending more time in the midfield
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One of those chicken and eggs speculation arguments really - would Cotch and co have step up regardless of our ruck or did Maric give them the foundation to make the improvement. My thoughts are the latter. I think at the very least he gave them more confidence and made them more proactive. The very best Maric, gave them first use of the ball more times than he didn't or at least fought a neutral battle. As al stated too, his shepherding and body work to create space for the midfielders to work in is even more important than his hit outs to advance.
I think Maric makes a bigger difference to our midfield than people may realize. I would take a side with a strong ruck and good midfield over a size with a weak ruck and very good midfield every day....but that's me of course :whistle
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Yellow team for mine. Maric wins the ruck. Jack kicks the goals.
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One of those chicken and eggs speculation arguments really - would Cotch and co have step up regardless of our ruck or did Maric give them the foundation to make the improvement. My thoughts are the latter. I think at the very least he gave them more confidence and made them more proactive. The very best Maric, gave them first use of the ball more times than he didn't or at least fought a neutral battle. As al stated too, his shepherding and body work to create space for the midfielders to work in is even more important than his hit outs to advance.
I think Maric makes a bigger difference to our midfield than people may realize. I would take a side with a strong ruck and good midfield over a size with a weak ruck and very good midfield every day....but that's me of course :whistle
So that's how Grigg got 30 uncontested possies every week. Maric had already taken out his man :thumbsup Maric obviously does a lot for us at the stoppages (and on his own around the ground) but our midfielders have always been good. No one is doing anything for Chimp. Chimp would win a Brownlow if Cain Ackland was our ruckman. Tuck & Foley barely played in 2011 and Lids played at HB. Obviously the inclusion of those 3 makes our midfield a poo ton better regardless of who is doing the ruckwork. I just don't subscribe to the theory of us having a decent midfield then suddenly it's outstanding because of Maric
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Fair point. After the ball up maric is often not helping the contest; due to he drops back between the defending goal square and where the ball is.
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Yes it is a fair point Coach. Maric's influence is predominately around stoppages (coincidentally where we made our greatest improvement as a team last year too though) but his impact drops off as the ball spreads out to Grigg etc. The inclusion of players such as Lids, Tuck and Foley was certainly a factor tough Lids (and Grigg for that matter) are mainly outside ball users who benefited directly from being feed from our stoppage ball winners.
When Foley went out with injury we were bale to cover him (in fact Cotchin became even more dominate) because Cotch became increasingly Maric's hit out target (I don't think this actually made us a better side in this regard because it made us more predictable).
Maric's biggest impact is the stoppages. He is our first contact with the ball and the inside midfielders rely upon him to win the ball so they can feed it out to our better ball users. Would our midfield be still a quality outfit without him - probably, would they be winning anywhere near as much stoppages without him - no.
If you ask our midfield directly what the biggest factor in there improvement last year they tell you bringing in Maric (well at least Cotch and LIds did when I asked). I think that is worth considering at the very least.