One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on April 17, 2013, 04:17:20 AM
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DUSTIN MARTIN IS PLAYING SCULLY AND TRENGOVE ON A BREAK
Jon Ralph - The Buzz
Herald-Sun
April 17, 2013
At Richmond in about December, the 2009 national draft's No.3 selection Dustin Martin looked headed for the scrapheap if he did not rapidly pull his head in.
It is not an exaggeration to say the could would have traded or off-loaded him if he continued his erratic behaviour, and Martin heard the message loud and clear.
Three weeks into the AFL season, it is hard not to revisit that comparison against the two players taken ahead of him and wonder what the hell happened?
Martin is flying - fresh off 10 votes from the coaches against the Western Bulldogs - while Tom Scully and Jack Trengove are stuck in football's version of quicksand.
Martin is another player who with strong development, strong talent and the guiding hand of the club’s new development guru in Mark "Chocko" Williams has found a way to thrive.
It is no surprise the Tigers are flying up the charts when you consider they have nailed their recent high draft picks in Martin, Brett Deledio, Trent Cotchin and Reece Conca, with Brandon Ellis, Nick Vlastuin and Ty Vickery surely on the right track.
At least Scully has all that money to comfort him, but he doesn't have a lot of possessions.
He had just three against St Kilda at hal time, at a time when the Greater Western Sydney leaders just had to stand up.
Callan Ward certainly did - he got two coaches' votes - and while Scully was the highly-paid acquisition, it's still hard to think GWS got bang for their buck.
GWS bosses believe we are picking on Scully, and maybe we did at times in the last two years.
But on sheer objective figures - he is averaging 15 possessions, hasn't kicked a goal, and is ranked ninth on Champion Data points of the GWS mids to play all three games - it is unquestionable he is a disappointment despite that extremely surprising fourth place in the B&F last year.
The good news for Melbourne?
The Dees effectively traded him for Jack Viney and Jesse Hogan, who both look stars of the future.
The bad news? The greatest player who ever lived doesn't rate the bloke selected behind Scully - Jack Trengove - and has fears for Viney's career too despite his impressive start to the year.
In the post-match review on Saturday afternoon on 3AW, Leigh Matthews voiced his concern about 2009 pick 2 Trengove's development.
He is coming off a serious foot injury which clearly has contributed to just 27 touches in two games, but Matthews was surely assessing his disappointing 2012 season too.
''On Jack Trengove, when he first came in he looked a really capable young player,'' Matthews said.
''He was drafted high with Scully, but he's just become really pedestrian all of a sudden. He just looks average. He is not getting a lot of the footy but he's not able to do a lot with it either. Jack Viney is interesting. You have a reservoir of confidence when you come into footy. He has still got that so he's still attacking the footy.
''On the history of what's happened at Melbourne recently you worry about what's going to be his progression if it it's such a battle every time he goes out to play, and what it does to his confidence and therefore his performance.''
Some critical Melbourne fans have already begun comparing Jimmy Toumpas and his diminishing returns to Ollie Wines.
Yet that is surely way too premature.
Toumpas started off brightly but after possession tallies of nine, six and then three against West Coast, he is still finding the pace of the game, as Demons legend Garry Lyon accurately assessed on Saturday.
The Demons overlooked Wines for Toumpas, with Wines falling all the way to pick seven.
Wines looks a superstar in every way, but the Demons must be given time for Toumpas to find his feet.
As Martin showed, these comparisons can change rapidly.
We scoffed when Brock McLean was traded for the pick that became Jordan Gysberts, with the new Blue left in the reserves.
Now McLean is a regular and Gysberts isn't even at Melbourne.
More bad news - the Demons used that pick for Cameron Pedersen, who has singularly failed to inspire.
Now the Demons just have to ride their luck with Trengove, Viney, Hogan,Toumpas and Pedersen, and hope that like Dusty Martin in December, the darkest hour is before the dawn.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/the-buzz-stuff-blicavs-and-jamie-elliott/story-stuff-1226621778178
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It is not an exaggeration to say the could would have traded or off-loaded him...
What?!?!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/14/Ralph_Wiggum.png/220px-Ralph_Wiggum.png)
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:lol
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It is not an exaggeration to say the could would have traded or off-loaded him...
What?!?!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/14/Ralph_Wiggum.png/220px-Ralph_Wiggum.png)
That sentence (for lack of a better word) really stuffed up my ability to read the article. Completely through me off my game. Old crayons at 5 paces is at it again.
No they didn't get Hogan and Viney for Scully you clag sniffer. They got pick 4 & 13. Which was Toumpas & downgraded to the pick to get Dawes and Barry.
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On ya Ralphy :clapping
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That sentence (for lack of a better word) really stuffed up my ability to read the article. Completely through me off my game. Old crayons at 5 paces is at it again.
No they didn't get Hogan and Viney for Scully you clag sniffer.
:lol
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Melbourne doing really well out of the 2009 draft after having the first two picks :wallywink. Overlooked Dusty in the draft, Scully gonski to GWS and now Trengove dropped out of the side by Roos. Well they do say things happen in threes ;D.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-04/round-three-teams
The kid should get out of there before the Dees totally destroy his footy career.
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They were talented kids but they have run their confidence into the ground and haven't developed them properly or had good support around them. We went through it.
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Melbourne doing really well out of the 2009 draft after having the first two picks :wallywink. Overlooked Dusty in the draft, Scully gonski to GWS and now Trengove dropped out of the side by Roos. Well they do say things happen in threes ;D.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-04/round-three-teams
The kid should get out of there before the Dees totally destroy his footy career.
Melbourne is a perfect example of the incredible importance of player development and the money to invest in your football department. I don't believe Trengrove was a terrible choice but rather has been terribly developed and has matured in a poor culture with no leaders to protect and guide his journey. The Tigers were on a very similar path for decades before Benny Gale changed that with a unified direction and money to invest and support the coaches/players. I feel sorry for them. It will take more than a good coach to turn their fortunes around.
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They were talented kids but they have run their confidence into the ground and haven't developed them properly or had good support around them. We went through it.
As they say - 'Great minds...' owl :cheers
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Damn straight.
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didnt help that they were more interested in losing games to gain early draft picks rather than teaching the kids they had how to play football in a way that will win you games.
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Injuries.
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didnt help that they were more interested in losing games to gain early draft picks rather than teaching the kids they had how to play football in a way that will win you games.
Possibly but the bigger issue is most definitely in the lack of development in the draftees you tanked to get into the club in the first place.
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didnt help that they were more interested in losing games to gain early draft picks rather than teaching the kids they had how to play football in a way that will win you games.
Got nothing to do with how you develop kids Al, it's all about the draft picks. C'mon, you know better than that. :whistle
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didnt help that they were more interested in losing games to gain early draft picks rather than teaching the kids they had how to play football in a way that will win you games.
Possibly but the bigger issue is most definitely in the lack of development in the draftees you tanked to get into the club in the first place.
So I'll ask the obvious question - how do you develop kids when you're trying to lose?
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It's a similar principle as to how the TARDIS is bigger on the inside than the outside.
I believe its called the law of fantasy.
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We have been here before so I'm not proposing we have the same arguement again.
All I am saying is that the development of young players is paramount in a club filled with youth.
Melbourne, Port Power, Gold Coast and GWS all are clubs filled with lots of young talent.
How that talent got there is one debate, how they develop it is another.
For me, how they got the the club is less important than how they develop them over the next few years.
If that thinking is fanciful, then I'm clicking my heels and going to Kansas!
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We have been here before so I'm not proposing we have the same argument again.
Why not? It was fun. ;D ;D ;D
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didnt help that they were more interested in losing games to gain early draft picks rather than teaching the kids they had how to play football in a way that will win you games.
Possibly but the bigger issue is most definitely in the lack of development in the draftees you tanked to get into the club in the first place.
So I'll ask the obvious question - how do you develop kids when you're trying to lose?
Collingwood and hawthorn won the flag after tanking
So there goes your theory
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didnt help that they were more interested in losing games to gain early draft picks rather than teaching the kids they had how to play football in a way that will win you games.
Possibly but the bigger issue is most definitely in the lack of development in the draftees you tanked to get into the club in the first place.
So I'll ask the obvious question - how do you develop kids when you're trying to lose?
Go look at our VFL score, that's how... :whistle
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We have been here before so I'm not proposing we have the same arguement again.
All I am saying is that the development of young players is paramount in a club filled with youth.
Melbourne, Port Power, Gold Coast and GWS all are clubs filled with lots of young talent.
How that talent got there is one debate, how they develop it is another.
For me, how they got the the club is less important than how they develop them over the next few years.
If that thinking is fanciful, then I'm clicking my heels and going to Kansas!
Yep, but it was one of the main reasons I was against tanking right from the start - you can't develop kids properly in a side that is being coached to lose. You can develop them in a scenario like our reserves because the structures are set up how they need to be, the players are being taught the skills they will need to succeed and the intent to win will always be there, so the development should (will) happen regardless of the outcome but when a side is deliberately being restructured and compromised to engineer a loss then only a kid with rare natural talent will be able to overcome that and grow to his full potential.
And sliding off on a tangent (slightly), what are everyone's thoughts on chasing Trengrove at the end of the season? I know he still has another year of his contract to go but trades can always be done to satisfy all parties. He's young, has talent and might just be a bit jaded with the whole MFC scene after being thrown to the wolves as co-skipper a couple of years back and now can't get a game. I reckon he would come on leaps and bounds under Choco.
Thoughts?
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didnt help that they were more interested in losing games to gain early draft picks rather than teaching the kids they had how to play football in a way that will win you games.
Possibly but the bigger issue is most definitely in the lack of development in the draftees you tanked to get into the club in the first place.
So I'll ask the obvious question - how do you develop kids when you're trying to lose?
Go look at our VFL score, that's how... :whistle
Ah, we're trying to lose are we? 1 game in and the sky has come crashing down on you again WAT. Must be a sad environment to live in where instant gratification is the only measure of things.
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didnt help that they were more interested in losing games to gain early draft picks rather than teaching the kids they had how to play football in a way that will win you games.
Possibly but the bigger issue is most definitely in the lack of development in the draftees you tanked to get into the club in the first place.
So I'll ask the obvious question - how do you develop kids when you're trying to lose?
Go look at our VFL score, that's how... :whistle
Ah, we're trying to lose are we? 1 game in and the sky has come crashing down on you again WAT. Must be a sad environment to live in where instant gratification is the only measure of things.
Well we sure as stuff aren't trying to win....Must be great living in the land of sunshine and lollypops..
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Do Thomas Penders Lewis roughed franklin have medals? Tanking wouldn't work. Better to come 9th
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didnt help that they were more interested in losing games to gain early draft picks rather than teaching the kids they had how to play football in a way that will win you games.
Possibly but the bigger issue is most definitely in the lack of development in the draftees you tanked to get into the club in the first place.
So I'll ask the obvious question - how do you develop kids when you're trying to lose?
Go look at our VFL score, that's how... :whistle
Ah, we're trying to lose are we? 1 game in and the sky has come crashing down on you again WAT. Must be a sad environment to live in where instant gratification is the only measure of things.
Well we sure as stuff aren't trying to win....Must be great living in the land of sunshine and lollypops..
WAT do yourself a favour and get to a couple of our VFL games, go to the 1/4 & 3/4 time huddle and actually listen to what the line coaches , players & Clarke say, you may well change your thinking
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i see that we are back to the old chestnut that every team except richmond that finished last did so because they tanked :lol
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Does that override the score board?
Do we even have a younger reserves than footscracy?
Ah al. You and vlad right. Tanking has never existed
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i see you have been to the george bush school of if you arent with us you must be against us.
what was it called when clubs finished last before the draft?
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Why do the Nba have a lottery?
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keep trying georgie boy, you are barking up the wrong tree
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didnt help that they were more interested in losing games to gain early draft picks rather than teaching the kids they had how to play football in a way that will win you games.
Possibly but the bigger issue is most definitely in the lack of development in the draftees you tanked to get into the club in the first place.
So I'll ask the obvious question - how do you develop kids when you're trying to lose?
Collingwood and hawthorn won the flag after tanking
So there goes your theory
Nope. Hawthorn were just plain crap and genuinely lost all those games. The jury is out on Collingwood who might have thrown a game or 2 at the end of '04 but if you look at the players from their 2003 GF team who were still on their list in '04 and '05 they had a heap of injuries and many of their better players missed 6, 8, 10 games or more in '04 and '05. And no player is going to deliberately miss games for the good of a team just so it can tank, for monetary reasons before anything else! They were just as crap as Hawthorn but had much more ability and experience available that made their turnaround much quicker when they got their good players back on the field then had a couple of good kids from the draft to add to that. Completely different scenario to Melbourne who purposely tanked numerous games over several seasons to try and get a good group of youngsters but found that kids don't learn how to play football (nor appreciate it) by tanking.