One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Stripes on November 01, 2013, 12:07:16 PM
-
I've been watching a few of the 2013 games over the last couple of weeks and one thing keeps jumping out at me - Foley isn't up to it. When I compared him to the other midfielders, even Flossy in his first year, Foley made the most errors, had the worst footskills and had the least output. I was really surprized because I have always rated Foley as one of our best midfielders hindered by injury. Now I'm not so sure :-\
When I try and rate our midfielders (even though many play off half back/forward) in order he is right down the list imo -
(Did I forget anyone?)
1. Cotchin
2. Martin
3. Lids
4.Conca
5. Edwards
6. Ellis
7. Vlaustin
8. Grigg
9. Newman
10. Foley
11. Arnot
I'm even unsure whether to put Arnot above Foley but will give him the benefit of the doubt at present.
Am I being too harsh? Will be be pushed out of the side next year? Where will this years draftee fit in?
-
Not being too harsh about his performances in 13, he struggled.. but imo that was purely due to conditioning. Reckon with a full preseason he'll be one of our better mids again in 14.
-
lids > martin
-
Foley used to have that explosive pace out of stoppages and was a good ball winner but I think he has lost that - especially the run. I'm not certain he will get that back with a good preseason either. He can't kick over 30m either. I just think we may have seen his best already and it is a long way of for Nathan.
-
lids > martin
Thought Martin had a better year than Lids Bents. Mayber that was because Lids was defended more closely but Martin had a greater output imo.
-
Foley used to have that explosive pace out of stoppages and was a good ball winner but I think he has lost that - especially the run. I'm not certain he will get that back with a good preseason either. He can't kick over 30m either. I just think we may have seen his best already and it is a long way of for Nathan.
We'll know soon enough I guess, just recall seeing the size of his leg compared to the other about 4 weeks before he was picked in the side - crazy difference, cant expect someone to just get back all that explosive power without getting a good period of conditioning back into it.
He was similar in 2011 coming back, just so so then after a full preseason in the first 10 rounds of 2012 before he did the Achilles again he was burning them.
-
lids > martin
Thought Martin had a better year than Lids Bents. Mayber that was because Lids was defended more closely but Martin had a greater output imo.
Jackson> all :shh
-
Yep, you left our best mid in Jacko. The DBR (Dirty Big Ranga) :clapping
-
IMO
Jackson is not superior to Cotchin, Deledio, Martin (crazy, i know)
I would select Vlastuin, Conca, Ellis ahead of Jacko, too.
-
IMO
Jackson is not superior to Cotchin, Deledio, Martin (crazy, i know)
I would select Vlastuin, Conca, Ellis ahead of Jacko, too.
Scary as it may seem I agree with you Bents, those 6 are IMO2 ahead of Jacko, they give more variety whether is resting up forward as marking targets or being released from HB
-
IMO
Jackson is not superior to Cotchin, Deledio, Martin (crazy, i know)
I would select Vlastuin, Conca, Ellis ahead of Jacko, too.
I was only taking the pee. :shh
-
Taken some of you years to work this out.
-
Taken some of you years to work this out.
Indeed.
Even his best "matches" are in reality just him doing something to negate his prior errors of the day.
I question Hardwicks belief in him...i question Hardwick
-
This preseason will define him.
This year his right calf was half the size of his left. He should be able to build that up again and gain both speed and strength.
If he can regain full fitness, he will be in our top 6 mids. If he can't, he won't make the squad. As simple as that!
-
Gun player when he's fit, but I wonder if his best is behind him.
Fondly remember his all-star performance. Smashed them in the midfield.
Hopefully just a poor year for him and he improves next year. I still rate him better than the likes of Grigg. At least Foley will win the hardball.
Cotchin > Martin > Lids > Jackson > Conca > Foley > Grigg
That's this year IMO. Ellis I see as more of a wing for now and Vlastuin as more of a half back. I'm sure they'll play more mid later. And Jackson was a better mid than any of those 3 kids this year. Not as much skill or potential but certainly more mature, tougher, hit the scoreboard more etc.
-
Doesnt matter what he does in the pre season, his make up is that of a player who constantly makes errors.
Not what you need as an example of a game getter when we have young guys coming in need of an exemplary.
White was the better
-
To me Nathan is super important to us taking the next step into the top 4.If he can regain fitness and form,he will make the tagging of cotch ,lids ,or dusty almost impossible.
-
The retirement of tuck makes foley quite an important cog
-
Be interesting to see how he goes with a full preseason behind him, his first in many. I still think he has it!
-
Might have it but we'll never see it
-
IMO Foley is still one of our most important midfielders. The one thing Stripes list of midfielders tells me is we really drop away for genuine midfielders after Cotch, Martin and Lids if you can count him. (depends on if he gets tagged)
We have some potential coming through with Vaulastin, Conca and Ellis but nobody out of that lot strikes me as a genuine midfielder, pinch hitting through there for sure but not your full time midfielders..
That's why this years draft pick needs to be a genuine mid, no hybrid types we hope can turn into mids, or a half forward that can help out in the mid, a genuine mid.
Back on Foley, I disagree with Stripes, I have been watching replays of this year too and I think his work has been at a really good level, and like a few people have said, after a full pre season I predict him to be back to his best, which would be a massive bonus for us with our lack of full time, genuine, ball carrying mids.
Not playing him in the final was a mistake by DH. We were way to predictable in the midfield.
-
Concs is a full time mid. Flossy will be soon. Agree that Ellis more suited to the Flanks/wing.
-
The retirement of tuck makes foley quite an important cog
Or Arnott
-
The retirement of tuck makes foley quite an important cog
Or Arnott
I think if Arnott has a breakout year which is on the cards it could spell the end of Foley should he not lift.
We can all only guess at the moment though. I really want to see Arnott do well, this kid could be anything for mine!!
-
Taken some of you years to work this out.
Indeed.
Even his best "matches" are in reality just him doing something to negate his prior errors of the day.
I question Hardwicks belief in him...i question Hardwick
He got dropped for the final. What's the question?
-
If people watched Nathan during this past season,they would have noticed that he had one leg that would have done Arnie proud and the other leg resembled something you would find on those stick figures on the back of car windows.
I thought he was great in playing how did.For all those who have summarily executed him,surely the lad deserves 2014 to show that he can get back to his best
-
If people watched Nathan during this past season,they would have noticed that he had one leg that would have done Arnie proud and the other leg resembled something you would find on those stick figures on the back of car windows.
I thought he was great in playing how did.For all those who have summarily executed him,surely the lad deserves 2014 to show that he can get back to his best
:thumbsup
-
Concs is a full time mid. Flossy will be soon. Agree that Ellis more suited to the Flanks/wing.
Does anybody else think that Conca is a full time mid now? Or am I just watching another game?
IMO he is lucky to be full time in the side let alone full time in our midfield.
-
Agree BT
Vlas and Ellis are way ahead of Conca IMO
Bit slow for my liking.
-
Conca does a lot of the grunt work inside the packs. I am a critic of his disposal but in other areas hes been fantastic
-
Concs is a full time mid. Flossy will be soon. Agree that Ellis more suited to the Flanks/wing.
Does anybody else think that Conca is a full time mid now? Or am I just watching another game?
IMO he is lucky to be full time in the side let alone full time in our midfield.
So you dont think he is a full time mid, BT? Where do you see him play most of his footy? Center half forward?
I would argue that besides Cotch and maybe Tucky who is retired, he is the next most 'pure' mid we have. Ellis, Vlas, Lids, Dusty for different reasons cant handle a full game in the guts and have to push off to the flanks to get a kick.
Lucky to get a game? :lol
Concs isn't the perfect player but he puts his head over it and runs all day.
If im not mistaken, he was leading a number of our key stats before he got injured mid-year, including score involvements.
I actually reckon he'd be one of the first picked every week, and with good reason.
-
Some of the comments confuse me in this thread. When we're talking about full time mids....no one in the game today, at any club, regardless of how elite is a "full time mid" (with perhaps the exception of G.A jnr). I think what we need to do is to seperate the categories into players who are genuine mids and those who have a run through the guts. Most teams have a solid A mid team, of which ours is more than competitive, and then a B team that chip in. Guys like Ellis and Vlaustin; we're hoping go from team B to team A. Conca might already be there. Foley will be a major addition to those guys who can run through and make an impact. I feel its the quality of these b team guys that seperate the mediocre sides from those who are very competitive.
-
Concs is a full time mid. Flossy will be soon. Agree that Ellis more suited to the Flanks/wing.
Does anybody else think that Conca is a full time mid now? Or am I just watching another game?
IMO he is lucky to be full time in the side let alone full time in our midfield.
The only thing holding Conca back is elite fitness. Hasn't had a full pre season and keeps getting injuries.
If he can get a clean run at a pre season and 22 games I'd doubt you'd even have time to put sauce on your hat big tone - you'd be eating it that quickly.
-
Concs is a full time mid. Flossy will be soon. Agree that Ellis more suited to the Flanks/wing.
Does anybody else think that Conca is a full time mid now? Or am I just watching another game?
IMO he is lucky to be full time in the side let alone full time in our midfield.
The only thing holding Conca back is elite fitness. Hasn't had a full pre season and keeps getting injuries.
If he can get a clean run at a pre season and 22 games I'd doubt you'd even have time to put sauce on your hat big tone - you'd be eating it that quickly.
When was the last time Foley had a full pre-season too...would be years wouldn't it??
-
When was the last time Foley had a full pre-season too...would be years wouldn't it??
That in itself makes his perceived value comical.
Coghlan....
-
Concs is a full time mid. Flossy will be soon. Agree that Ellis more suited to the Flanks/wing.
Does anybody else think that Conca is a full time mid now? Or am I just watching another game?
IMO he is lucky to be full time in the side let alone full time in our midfield.
The only thing holding Conca back is elite fitness. Hasn't had a full pre season and keeps getting injuries.
If he can get a clean run at a pre season and 22 games I'd doubt you'd even have time to put sauce on your hat big tone - you'd be eating it that quickly.
"The only thing holding Conca back is elite fitness" It's a pretty big stubbling block to somebody trying to becoming an elite midfielder! I think you missed the point- "Does anyone else think that Conca is a full time mid now?" You obviously agree with me from your comments. So good on you.
Not sure about your hat eating comment either? Was that trying to be funny? Hope not, because it really wasn't. The whole sauce thing just dumb!
-
Concs is a hard nut.attacks the ball with aggro,and wins it plenty..Just needs to improve his field kicking whch is more to do with decision making rather than bad skills
-
When was the last time Foley had a full pre-season too...would be years wouldn't it??
That in itself makes his perceived value comical.
Coghlan....
The Floey situation compared to Cogs has crossed my mind too.......many times.... :-\
-
Foley had a full preseason in 2011/12 and was bloody awesome until he did his Achilles after about 10 rounds in 2012. This is why I am backing him in to have a good year next year.
-
Well if Luke Ball can do it.... :thumbsup
-
I see him as a bonus player at present - we are no longer reliant upon him to hold up the midfield but, if he is fit, he would give us a clear edge. I just fear we will never see him get through a full season. I think he is one of those players who will show how good he can be every three years for 10 games and then re-injure himself. Additionally, anything other than his best is quickly becoming not good enough. Our young ball winners are quickly over taking him extracting the ball and offer more around the ground too. Foley doesn't seem to have multiple dimensions to his game which means if he isn't winning the ball and/or spreading from the contest quickly then he will fall behind the rest.
I think that this preseason is more than make or break for Foley for 2014, I believe it is make or break for him for his career.
-
agree with that stripes, another break down and its curtains
-
yet if he comes good he slots into the team as the 4th best mid after Deledio/Martin/Cotchin, knocking Vlastuin and co. down another rung. Massive bonus for the side.
No doubt, IMO, a richmond strongest 22 includes Foley.
-
I agree 100% Bents but he still hasn't got there yet and time is not on his side. He doesn't have another three years turn-around if he injures himself again either. I :pray he gets there :gotigers
-
No doubt, IMO, a richmond strongest 22 includes a fit, in form, Foley.
EFA
-
I think the other element to this argument is that we have a good second tier of young talent now moving through the midfield -
Conca, Ellis & Vlaustin could all be A graders in the future but even if they don't reach those heights they will be very solid additions at worst. With another quality midfielder targeted this year (at least going on recent history)with our first pick, it seems we are really developing (and hoping) our young talls. I have far less confidence that Griffiths, Elton, Astbury, McBean and Grimes will all be 200 game players than our young midfielders.
This is why Foley may be struggling - the consistency he lacks compared to the consistency that the young mids are already producing.
-
I think the other element to this argument is that we have a good second tier of young talent now moving through the midfield -
Conca, Ellis & Vlaustin could all be A graders in the future but even if they don't reach those heights they will be very solid additions at worst. With another quality midfielder targeted this year (at least going on recent history)with our first pick, it seems we are really developing (and hoping) our young talls. I have far less confidence that Griffiths, Elton, Astbury, McBean and Grimes will all be 200 game players than our young midfielders.
This is why Foley may be struggling - the consistency he lacks compared to the consistency that the young mids are already producing.
The guy lacks consistency because he played on one leg. If he can overcome injury concerns and have a full preseason then he becomes very important to us.
-
Literally
His injured leg half the size
-
Literally
His injured leg half the size
So was Kelvin Moores.
Do we ever learn ?