One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on April 13, 2014, 03:09:33 AM

Title: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: one-eyed on April 13, 2014, 03:09:33 AM
Paradise postponed at Richmond

   Jake Niall
     The Age
    April 13, 2014



Richmond's renaissance has stalled, if not reversed. Paradise has been postponed, or indefinitely cancelled. The Tigers will not be at the pointy end of the ladder in 2014 and, from 1-3, they have as much chance of playing finals as the Bulldogs.

To be one win and three losses wouldn't be disastrous if Richmond had been lumbered with Collingwood's schedule. Alas, it has dropped three "eight point'' games, to Gold Coast, the Bulldogs and Collingwood. It is yet to run into the truly nasty cage matches, such as Hawthorn, Freo, Geelongand West Coast in Perth.

They should be lighting candles to Carlton at Punt Road this week.

Standing in the suitably sombre rooms on Friday evening, some of us could hear Damien Hardwick's invective. Trent Cotchin later explained that the coach felt short steps had been taken on a few occasions, in effect that contests had been squibbed. No coach - certainly not a brutal back pocket graduate of Alastair Clarkson's coaching school - will tolerate multiple instances of his players applying the handbreak in the face of incoming traffic.

But insufficient fortitude will only be an issue for the Tigers if it afflicts those, including Hardwick, who make decisions about the playing list. The football department must be clear sighted about this team, and its inadequacies, and then act.

This doesn't mean adopting a Game of Thrones list-management philosophy and garroting every player of questionable value. The Tigers can't rid themselves of 13-15 players. They just can't afford to squib a few tough calls. They know that this list won't take them beyond the lower reaches of the top eight, at best. Despite Hardwick's diagnosis, the Collingwood defeat was due more to lack of class - and terrible ball use - than faint hearts.

Hardwick isn't the problem. He can coach. The days of scapegoating the coach at Tigerland, happily, have been consigned to the pre-internet era. The Richmond regime is more stable - and capable - than at any stage during the past 30 years. The Tigers are actually making money, have first-world facilities and are untroubled in retaining and even attracting players. Their recruiting has been sound since 2006, if less spectacular than Geelong's.

So what's gone wrong?

Expansion hasn't helped. Under Hardwick, the Tigers had been making steady progress, from terrible early in 2010 - almost Melbourne-like - to play finals in 2013. They managed this because their first draft choices were pretty decent from the time Francis Jackson gave up his job as a teacher at Brighton Grammar and went full-time as head of recruiting. They nailed the selections of Jack Riewoldt (2006), Cotchin (2007), Dustin Martin (2009), Brandon Ellis (2011) and Nick Vlastuin (2012), while Tyrone Vickery (2008) and Reece Conca (2010) were OK choices, in that both will play 150-plus games. They haven't had any Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls-like catastrophes.

But the Tigers, like Carlton of 2003-2008, were building upon such a shallow base that they had absolutely no margin for error. Hawthorn, for instance, had major busts with top six picks Beau Dowler and Mitch Thorp in 2005-2006 (imagine if the Hawks had taken Joel Selwood, not Thorp), yet had enough cattle to cover for the clangers.

Expansion meant that the Tigers were getting access to Conca, not pick No. 2 in an uncompromised draft pool, and Ellis (No. 15), instead of a key position forward. Arguably, they ought to have chosen Tom Lynch (Gold Coast) rather than Conca, but that's expecting them to extract the maximum return from every single first pick, which no club - the Cats included - has ever managed over six or seven years.

What's happened, though, is irrelevant to what has to happen next if they're to extricate themselves from mid-table no-man's land. Avoiding Carlton's fatal overrating of its list is paramount, albeit they are in much better shape than the lifeless Blues.

The Tigers will need to think carefully about free agency. James Frawley obviously would benefit the defence, but can't be acquired at $750,000-$800,000 - unless he's paid in New Zealand dollars. Bryce Gibbs seems more likely to stay at Carlton or head to South Australia. They will need to trade out players - not simply in - by identifying the dispensables.

Blair Hartley's eye for a recycled/overlooked bargain has seen Richmond plug some short-term holes with Shaun Grigg, Bachar Houli, Ivan Maric, Steven Morris and now Matt Thomas and Shaun Hampson. Individually, these players are AFL-standard; collectively, to have six of them - plus Shane Edwards, Jake King, an inconsistent Vickery and a raft of unprovens such as Ben Griffiths and Dylan Grimes - creates a critical mass of C-graders. Some might graduate to Bs, most won't.

Vickery's future must be up for discussion. He has talent and, from what one can gather, is a thoughtful young man. The Tigers, alas, need a genuine power forward. Vickery's value lies as a third tall, since he isn't built for punishment and his poor games are double bogeys. The Tigers remain a big man short and if King is your only defensive small forward, you're in strife. Dustin Martin is a one-way runner who doesn't tackle.

Vlastuin is very capable, Ellis is capable of much better. At Richmond, that pair don't have the luxury of being gradually eased into the frontline, in the manner of young Hawthorn, Sydney or Geelong mids. Brett Deledio's abilities have been underappreciated; his worth is more evident when the Tigers are without him. Cotchin carries an inordinate leadership load.

To a degree, the Tigers were flattered by their home-and-away results in 2013. They were a 12-13-win team that was inflated to 15 wins by a favourable fixture.

They did lose to the Blues, only five matches ago. That's where they stand. Administrative hardness at the ball will be needed, in the right measure.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/paradise-postponed-at-richmond-20140412-zqu0r.html#ixzz2yh15tbmU
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 13, 2014, 08:20:16 AM
Spot on. :clapping :clapping :clapping
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: Smokey on April 13, 2014, 11:29:10 AM
Great article, nailed it!
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: dwaino on April 13, 2014, 11:39:42 AM
Spot on. Haven't agreed so much with an article in a very long time.
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: tigs2011 on April 13, 2014, 11:45:38 AM
Sad but true.
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: Golfprotiger on April 13, 2014, 11:53:26 AM
Right on the button!
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: eliminator on April 13, 2014, 12:05:56 PM
Agree
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: Eat_em_Alive on April 13, 2014, 12:53:27 PM
Good article, do you think they spend some time reading here too?
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 13, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Jake Niall = the claw. ;D
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: tony_montana on April 13, 2014, 03:38:40 PM
 :clapping
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: TigerLand on April 13, 2014, 04:06:42 PM
What a wonderful article. It was like reading my own thoughts and others off this forum.

Superb journalism.
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: the claw on April 13, 2014, 04:57:03 PM
pppffftt  nothing some of us have been saying for ages.yet when we do it becomes a bun fight.

and i disagree on recruiting. i think it can and should be much better.
fine to mention the first rounders  but simply put you cant build jack poo if you cant get any other picks in the nd right. not asking much just that we get 50% of 2nd 3rd 4th rnd picks  right. if we had done that we would have about another 13 decent to very good players  equating to  enough quality and depth and there would hardly be a need for blair hartley to do his job.

we can put our heads in the sand and pretend we dont have recruiting problems and we will remain mired where we are.

i keep on going on about these things to exclusion of all other things at times,  and i cop poo for it but its good to see others agree in the main.
 gonna say it again  list management and recruiting are the two most important things at any club and will guarantee sustained success with just a little amount of decent development.
we just  have to be better at both.

it aint hard to see what should be addressed as far as structuring the list up goes. it really isnt hard to identify and delist or trade  blokes who have had aeons to show consistency and over come weaknesses.

now wheres that list management thread got to.



Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 13, 2014, 06:29:53 PM
Spot on  :clapping
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: pmac21 on April 13, 2014, 10:01:27 PM
Same people who only last month/year were saying our recruiting and trading has been genius after a few losses now is catastrophic.
Meh!!
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: Stripes on April 13, 2014, 11:01:25 PM
Still think our first round drafting and development has been excellent. Our trading has been outstanding too considering what we have given up for some very reasonable players.

Great article though. Hope the powers that be at Richmond read it  :thumbsup
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: Tigger on April 14, 2014, 01:30:20 PM
Still think our first round drafting and development has been excellent. Our trading has been outstanding too considering what we have given up for some very reasonable players.

Great article though. Hope the powers that be at Richmond read it  :thumbsup

Stripes agree and you hit the nail of the head when you used the words "first round drafting".

It is the second, third and fourth rounds where it get difficult and where other teams either in talent spotting or development seem to have the edge on us.

Take the 3 maccas for example: by now one of them should be getting some regular game time but they are not.  Between them they have played 2 games.  It is that level of player that needs to improve to add depth.  Now is it the talent spotting or the development?

I only use the 2012 draft as an example - players picked immediately after those 3 havent really set the world on fire either.
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: Judge Roughneck on April 14, 2014, 01:34:00 PM
Mcdonuts looks a footballer.

Mcbean is one of the brightest talents in the country.

McIntosh has grown fast and is going to take time to develop.

 Is the issue player drafting - or development and giving them senior games?
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: wayne on April 14, 2014, 01:43:16 PM
Mcdonuts looks a footballer.

Mcbean is one of the brightest talents in the country.

McIntosh has grown fast and is going to take time to develop.

 Is the issue player drafting - or development and giving them senior games?

I like the 3 guys you've mentioned, they do look promising, but they haven't proven a thing yet.

We haven't had an A-grader come from a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round pick for a LONG time.
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: Francois Jackson on April 14, 2014, 01:45:28 PM
Mcdonuts looks a footballer.

Mcbean is one of the brightest talents in the country.

McIntosh has grown fast and is going to take time to develop.

 Is the issue player drafting - or development and giving them senior games?

Last point spot on. Adding to it recycling of spuds.

Development:
Let's develop Jack into a faggott with skinny arms . That was a club direction not his lets be serious

Well done M Williams. What a gun he is
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 14, 2014, 05:03:59 PM
Mcdonuts looks a footballer.

Mcbean is one of the brightest talents in the country.

McIntosh has grown fast and is going to take time to develop.

 Is the issue player drafting - or development and giving them senior games?

Last point spot on. Adding to it recycling of spuds.

Development:
Let's develop Jack into a limpgott with skinny arms . That was a club direction not his lets be serious

Well done M Williams. What a gun he is
None of them are going to be A graders if they're kept in the magoos. If you look at Hawthorn and Geelong, they develop theirs in the seniors after identifying the talent in the seconds. To do that we have to take some backward steps. But the tiges say they HAVE TO make the finals which makes development and ultimately real improvement impossible.
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: Judge Roughneck on April 14, 2014, 06:49:49 PM
Mcdonuts looks a footballer.

Mcbean is one of the brightest talents in the country.

McIntosh has grown fast and is going to take time to develop.

 Is the issue player drafting - or development and giving them senior games?

I like the 3 guys you've mentioned, they do look promising, but they haven't proven a thing yet.

We haven't had an A-grader come from a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round pick for a LONG time.

The three combined have been given one game. How do,you prove yourself from the grand stand?
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: bojangles17 on April 14, 2014, 07:45:13 PM
Dorothy Dixer of an article with nil revelations , failed to address cosmetic changes to the game plan that have made an impact, just a fluff piece  :shh
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 14, 2014, 08:01:24 PM
Dorothy Dixer of an article with nil revelations , failed to address cosmetic changes to the game plan that have made an impact, just a fluff piece  :shh
Your almost on your own BJ on that one judging by the response of the majority here....
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: bojangles17 on April 14, 2014, 09:28:30 PM
Well I hardly think that the likes of RFC being denied access to top end talent due to concessions awarded to the new franchises being a revelation. I refute that our HA ladder position in 2013 flattered us, Ffs we beat both grand finalists and were robbed v freo. It's a fluff piece  :lol
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: the claw on April 14, 2014, 11:42:53 PM
Mcdonuts looks a footballer.

Mcbean is one of the brightest talents in the country.

McIntosh has grown fast and is going to take time to develop.

 Is the issue player drafting - or development and giving them senior games?
and yet some of us struggle to see any real good redeeming attributes with mcdonough. of the three he should click well ahead of the others. in fact  with his size and age he should be just about banging the door down now.

mcbean hasnt been played because of size which is fair enough. it is that old bug bear again you know that thing called potential but is he capable of handling afl footy on a regular basis heck no
 mcintosh has had some injury but has not done a lot to date. surely he has to show just a little bit before giving him games.

they have not done enough and all three need much more development. they should be developing mainly  in the twos imo. when they are physically ready and they have shown they can handle playing against men give em some  games  for sure if for no other reason than gaining experience.

how anyone can say these guys are proven is beyond me. like so many other kids in the afl system they have potential but clearly lack in some key areas atm
 they all could become good afl  players  but the fact is they are not atm. let them  all play some consistent footy in the twos and then for sure give em a game.

atm lloyd is a beetter option than mcdonough, dea is probably a better option than mcintosh and for sure elton as far as being physically capable of handling afl footy is in front of mcbean imo.
atm there is no guarantee any of those mentioned will make it but in fairness to them and the club they need time to develop properly.

on the merits of our wins last yr. let me put it this way. like some others  i thought we had a better season in 2012 as far as overall performance goes yet we missed finals.
imo if we focus only on wins and losses we lose sight of the bigger overall picture.
cmon people we all remember 2001 a yr  it was clear that the list in 2001 was way short of talent and we had to take a step backwards rather than top up. imo the 2013  situation was not much different to 01. for me our ladder position in 2013 flattered us greatly.
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: the claw on April 15, 2014, 12:31:13 AM
Still think our first round drafting and development has been excellent. Our trading has been outstanding too considering what we have given up for some very reasonable players.

Great article though. Hope the powers that be at Richmond read it  :thumbsup
imo i reckon our first round selections passable. as for development of those 1st rounders i would strenuously argue they have made it on their talent alone with development failing to address what weaknesses was in their games.

as for  the taking of mature recruits in general  weather that be trade f/a, nd, psd, or rookie draft, while  we have not paid a huge premium in most cases,  there has been an inordinate amount of misses.not sure you can call this area excellent.

one thing for sure in all of this there is no doubting we can and should be much better in these most critical areas.
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 15, 2014, 08:05:48 AM
Still think our first round drafting and development has been excellent. Our trading has been outstanding too considering what we have given up for some very reasonable players.

Great article though. Hope the powers that be at Richmond read it  :thumbsup
imo i reckon our first round selections passable. as for development of those 1st rounders i would strenuously argue they have made it on their talent alone with development failing to address what weaknesses was in their games.

as for  the taking of mature recruits in general  weather that be trade f/a, nd, psd, or rookie draft, while  we have not paid a huge premium in most cases,  there has been an inordinate amount of misses.not sure you can call this area excellent.

one thing for sure in all of this there is no doubting we can and should be much better in these most critical areas.
Claw you should go down to the club and displace Blair and Francis.

I'd vote for you! :clapping
Title: Re: Paradise postponed at Richmond (Age)
Post by: TigerMonk on April 15, 2014, 09:34:59 AM
That was a good read  :clapping