One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on June 23, 2014, 08:04:15 PM
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Patrick Smith: Tigers awful to watch
Joshua Papanikolaou
SEN
23-6-2014
Lowly placed Richmond kept it close against a Sydney side with little spark on Friday night but Patrick Smith was not overly impressed with their slow-going style of football.
The Tigers only managed one goal in the second half which meant they racked up a hefty 250 disposals for a return of one major and five behinds to finish the game.
“It was awful to watch, very disappointing.
“Again, Damien Hardwick said they are playing pretty good footy and I’m not sure that they are,” explained Smith on Hungry for Sport.
With only three wins from ten games Richmond will not play finals this year after winning a lofty 15 games last season.
Smith believes Damien Hardwick got the most out of his squad in 2013 and they simply have not come close to that level of football after the break-out season.
“Maybe Richmond’s year last year was where a team plays to its ultimate maximum then just retreats back down the ladder because in reality the list isn’t very good.
“Maybe they are in that stage where they need to rethink its whole list structure.”
http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2013/Patrick-Smith-Tigers-awful-to-watch/70508
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Let's hear it for Stuffing Einstein
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Let's hear it for Stuffing Einstein
in fairness to him very few scribes have come out and said what he has said.
its been mostly how dissapointing are richmond they have a decent list. finally even the media are seeing us for what we are.
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Let's hear it for Stuffing Einstein
in fairness to him very few scribes have come out and said what he has said.
its been mostly how dissapointing are richmond they have a decent list. finally even the media are seeing us for what we are.
Claw you keep on banging on our list not good enough ,but never give reasons why.I think ourlist is good enough to make the top 8 not top 4 and were not in the premiership window yet,but there is still alot of talent there to work it.Offcourse we have weak links and a few duds but all teams have them.
My view is our football department went off track and got ahead of themselves with a poor preseason,draft,trade week.rooke draft,fitness gameplan etc.I still maintain that if we had a Ross Lyon,Roos or Hinkley we would be alot better team better gameplan,mentally strong etc and less duds recruited from other clubs toout there.
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Let's hear it for Stuffing Einstein
in fairness to him very few scribes have come out and said what he has said.
its been mostly how dissapointing are richmond they have a decent list. finally even the media are seeing us for what we are.
Claw you keep on banging on our list not good enough ,but never give reasons why.I think ourlist is good enough to make the top 8 not top 4 and were not in the premiership window yet,but there is still alot of talent there to work it.Offcourse we have weak links and a few duds but all teams have them.
My view is our football department went off track and got ahead of themselves with a poor preseason,draft,trade week.rooke draft,fitness gameplan etc.I still maintain that if we had a Ross Lyon,Roos or Hinkley we would be alot better team better gameplan,mentally strong etc and less duds recruited from other clubs toout there.
geez and here i was thinking i have given plenty of reasons right across these boards and people were getting sick of it.
there is only one tall fwd in riewoldt who manages to consistentl kick goals and even with him there are plenty who argue about his overall game.
only one decent tall defender and i regularly argue he is not suited to play on and stop big key fwds.
only one ruckman in maric. hes how old again.
only 4 consistent reasonably well rounded mids martin, deledio, cotchin and miles.
no quality sml or medium fwds
no quality sml or medium defenders
we lack depth in all areas. having numbers is not depth.
mate ive argued about these things and much more for how long now. im not sure what else i need to say to drive home the point that the list is poor. it has always been poor.it will remain poor if we cant even acknowledge where it is at.
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Don't think Morris is at least decent?
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our list is rubbish
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Did I really just read that claw hasn't given reason for why he doesn't rate our list? :lol :lol
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Hehe
Patrick is ok these days, says things most journos don't have the balls to say outright
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Let's hear it for Stuffing Einstein
in fairness to him very few scribes have come out and said what he has said.
its been mostly how dissapointing are richmond they have a decent list. finally even the media are seeing us for what we are.
Claw you keep on banging on our list not good enough ,but never give reasons why.I think ourlist is good enough to make the top 8 not top 4 and were not in the premiership window yet,but there is still alot of talent there to work it.Offcourse we have weak links and a few duds but all teams have them.
My view is our football department went off track and got ahead of themselves with a poor preseason,draft,trade week.rooke draft,fitness gameplan etc.I still maintain that if we had a Ross Lyon,Roos or Hinkley we would be alot better team better gameplan,mentally strong etc and less duds recruited from other clubs toout there.
The list was good enough until tigeritis™®© spreads throughout the club again.
All players are good when they arrive. But if you don't cure the disease it will eventually destroy you.
If you don't get rid of it it will eventually infect everyone, players that were great kicks start turning the ball over, fast players become slower, good contested markers start dropping the ball, those with sure hands begin fumbling,etc etc.
But this isn't isolated to just the playing group, coaches, assistants, trainers, fitness staff, CEOs become delusional and only see giants of the game, world beaters that deserve contract extensions and exorbitant salaries for underachieving.
Then we wonder why there's a cycle of Skata at punt road.
RFC, ruining players careers and breaking supporters hearts for 32 years.
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Then we wonder why there's a cycle of Skata at punt road.
What is causing the skata? Where is it located?
Why can't they get rid of the stench?
Got any actual solutions or do we just go plop, plop, plop and sling it at them?
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the coach and jack
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Sometimes I wish Matthew Knights was coach.
We might not win many games with his "all sizzle and no sausage" approach.
But at least it would be worth watching.
Friggen hate football at the moment.
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/51537498.jpg)
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Then we wonder why there's a cycle of Skata at punt road.
What is causing the skata? Where is it located?
Why can't they get rid of the stench?
Got any actual solutions or do we just go plop, plop, plop and sling it at them?
Players who offer nothing like Titch Edwards getting contract extensions is one then having someone come on here and say Dusty should be traded because he doesn't run defensively is enough but Titch getting an extension is fantastic is another.
Can't think of anything else right now.
The Skata Cycle. 32 years and counting. Plop Plop Plop. ®©™
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Then we wonder why there's a cycle of Skata at punt road.
What is causing the skata? Where is it located?
Why can't they get rid of the stench?
Got any actual solutions or do we just go plop, plop, plop and sling it at them?
Players who offer nothing like Titch Edwards getting contract extensions is one then having someone come on here and say Dusty should be traded because he doesn't run defensively is enough but Titch getting an extension is fantastic is another.
Can't think of anything else right now.
The Skata Cycle. 32 years and counting. Plop Plop Plop. ®©™
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our list is rubbish
I keep reading this and reading how poor a coach Hardwick is.
Quite simply, you dont get to within one error of a top 4 finish, as we id last year, with both a rubbish list and a poor coach, so it cant be both.
There hasn't been any great personnel loss from last year.....
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our list is rubbish
I keep reading this and reading how poor a coach Hardwick is.
Quite simply, you dont get to within one error of a top 4 finish, as we id last year, with both a rubbish list and a poor coach, so it cant be both.
There hasn't been any great personnel loss from last year.....
Yep it was all blowing smoke up the behind hole last year (apart from the eternal optimist Clawski)
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our list is rubbish
I keep reading this and reading how poor a coach Hardwick is.
Quite simply, you dont get to within one error of a top 4 finish, as we id last year, with both a rubbish list and a poor coach, so it cant be both.
There hasn't been any great personnel loss from last year.....
Agreed, One could argue that everything fell into place last season and it was one out of the box, but poor lists don't finish a smidgen out of the top 4, a poor list may scrape you into the finals on percentage. Don't think we're a top 6 list but don't think we're a bottom 6 list either - I honestly feel we are in that 7-12 bracket which is why Im so disappointed with how this season has panned out.
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R u guys mental?
It's hardwicks mess.
He dropped the spud halfway and couldn't pick it up cos he only has one hand
As long as he's at punt road we will stay where we r.
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you guys have very short memories
2002, 4th in 2001
Rubbish list and poor coach
Hardwick is Spud and our list is turning into that of 2002 with a plethora of rejects from other clubs
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A new coach a cleanout of about 10 players past their use by date and I'd be confident we'd be pushing for finals immediately next season. List is 10x better than 2001
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How exactly does the combination of rubbish list and poor coach get to top 4?
The two most important factors for success are off the mark, yet you still win enough games to finish top 4?
How?
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The 2001 list finished top 4 & made a prelim. Was that a great list with a good coach?
I maintain that you don't have be that great a side to just make the 8.We're good enough to make the 8 and have been more years than not. We fail most years because we're mentally week and it's become an albatross around our pysche. Most other clubs put in a finals appearance at least every few years as a matter of course. We take a decade.
We needed to improve because other sides improve. We didn't improve. Caro was right when she said we prefer being the hunter and can't handle being the hunted. We lost a mediocre player in White, but the only one we had with line breaking pace and didn't replace that in any serious way. We added a ruckman who wins hit outs but is otherwise as useless as t@s on a bull. Chaplin was a key ingredient in last years success -this year he's been an absolute poo truck. A lot of things fell into place last year. We over achieved and overrated ourselves.We haven't improved or added value to the list and Hardwick hasn't improved as a coach. Yeah we've had injuries - but that's something you should budget for in the off season and why you need to improve the list and the depth. We seemed to assume we were going to have another good run with injuries. All we really did was pay massive overs for a spud to cover Maric and rookie another spud from Port to balance out the loss of Tuck but who is really just another Sam Lonergan.
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you do know that is an in between of rubbish and great?
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Yeah we've had injuries - but that's something you should budget for in the off season and why you need to improve the list and the depth. We seeed to assume we were going to have another good run with injuries. All we really did was pay massive overs for a spud to cover Maric and rookie another spud from Port to balance out the loss of Tuck but who is really just another Sam Lonergan.
Exactly this. You have to brace yourself for the worst. You can't expect your best players to be firing every single round. The coaching staff assumed Deledio, Martin, and Cotchin will be tearing it up in AA standard week in week out to cover the lack of improvement in Ellis, Conca whom hasn't had a full preseason to date, and a Grigg/Houli whom have most likely peaked.
Furthermore if there is something I am furious about with the club is that we don't have a NAB rising star nominee this year. I wouldn't care if they won it or not but the fact that we have no representation this year tells me we aren't putting enough work into developing the kids to cover for ageing players/potential injuries.
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you do know that is an in between of rubbish and great?
Um yeah that's pretty much what I just said.
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not really.
i questioned how you could get top 4 when the two most important requirements in list and coach are both crap and you replied by asking if I thought
"Was that a great list with a good coach"
How did it get from one extreme to the other?
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Title edit.
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The list has some deficiencies but overall isn't that bad. Most club lists have deficiencies. It can be fixed pretty quickly with some astute recruiting. Port gained three ready made senior players in Homsch, Polec, White last year. GWS and Gold Coast raiding can improve the list pretty quickly. If we wanted to aggressively rebuild from the ground up, we could trade Cotchin and Deledio. We have plenty of options. What we need though is a fresh recruiting department. We can't afford to waste more first round draft picks on the Concas and Ellis's of this world.
The problem with our performances this year all reside with the coach. Ports list would struggle under Hardwick just as they did under Primus. Hardwick fails in every aspect as a coach. I can't think of one positive when I think of him.
Get a good coach with an attacking game plan and some quality recruiters and we could be pushing top 4 again next year. While defense is important, the enthusiasm that is generated when you kick goals has a much stronger impact on a teams psychology and that buzz pushes players to greater efforts. Robotically chipping sideways is devastating when it doesn't work. Having a game plan that you don't enjoy and doesn't work saps the spirit and morale of the playing group. Cotchin isn't the worst midfielder in the competition but Hardwick has him playing like he is whilst telling him he is a champion. Delusions are the only thing holding this list together at the moment because all confidence is gone.
Wait another 2 years and the next coach will have a Wallace like list full of underachievers who are mentally shot.
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not really.
i questioned how you could get top 4 when the two most important requirements in list and coach are both crap and you replied by asking if I thought
"Was that a great list with a good coach"
How did it get from one extreme to the other?
The first line was just a rhetorical question - an aside and an example of a team that did make top 4 with a poor coach and a below average list the fell away badly afterwards and though there are a few similarities it wasn't intended to be the crux of the post which dealt with the current list and why they are headed for a bottom 4 finish this year after finishing 5th last year.
Our list is clearly better than it was in 2002, certainly at it's core at least, coach...well that's up for debate, let's just say I don't think it's any coincidence that his poor performance this year has coincided with the loss of key assistants and the subsequent failure to replace them.
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The first line was just a rhetorical question - an aside and an example of a team that did make top 4 with a poor coach and a below average list the fell away badly afterwards and though there are a few similarities it wasn't intended to be the crux of the post which dealt with the current list and why they are headed for a bottom 4 finish this year after finishing 5th last year. Suprised someone of your self-proclaimed superior intellect was unable to grasp that.
Our list is clearly better than it was in 2002, certainly at it's core at least, coach...well that's up for debate, let's just say I don't think it's any coincidence that his poor performance this year has coincided with the loss of key assistants and the subsequent failure to replace them.
Rather amazing that you would comment on coaching staff when you don't know who they are.
Leppitsch is the ONLY assistant that has left.
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I'd rather be awful to watch and win a flag than another other option right now.
Richmond shouldn't apologise for winning ugly which is what we should've done in the past 2 weeks against ugly playing sides who are up to their ears in the race for the flag.
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I'd rather be awful to watch and win a flag than another other option right now.
Richmond shouldn't apologise for winning ugly which is what we should've done in the past 2 weeks against ugly playing sides who are up to their ears in the race for the flag.
Yep Sydney have done it twice and Lyon has almost done it 3 times.
Right now a four quarter effort would be good let alone a win but even that seems a little hollow right now. :-\
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None of those Grand Finals were worth watching....
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None of those Grand Finals were worth watching....
The second half of the draw was riveting, roller coaster stuff. 2009 was a great contest too.
Despite this a Premiership is a Premiership and we have not saluted the judge for 34 years.
I'd take one any way we could TBH. :thumbsup
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The first line was just a rhetorical question - an aside and an example of a team that did make top 4 with a poor coach and a below average list the fell away badly afterwards and though there are a few similarities it wasn't intended to be the crux of the post which dealt with the current list and why they are headed for a bottom 4 finish this year after finishing 5th last year. Suprised someone of your self-proclaimed superior intellect was unable to grasp that.
Our list is clearly better than it was in 2002, certainly at it's core at least, coach...well that's up for debate, let's just say I don't think it's any coincidence that his poor performance this year has coincided with the loss of key assistants and the subsequent failure to replace them.
Rather amazing that you would comment on coaching staff when you don't know who they are.
Leppitsch is the ONLY assistant that has left.
Even though cambpell wasn't an assistant strictly per se, he was opposition analyst in his last year, so we have lost 2 senior assistants over the past 2 years
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The first line was just a rhetorical question - an aside and an example of a team that did make top 4 with a poor coach and a below average list the fell away badly afterwards and though there are a few similarities it wasn't intended to be the crux of the post which dealt with the current list and why they are headed for a bottom 4 finish this year after finishing 5th last year. Suprised someone of your self-proclaimed superior intellect was unable to grasp that.
Our list is clearly better than it was in 2002, certainly at it's core at least, coach...well that's up for debate, let's just say I don't think it's any coincidence that his poor performance this year has coincided with the loss of key assistants and the subsequent failure to replace them.
Rather amazing that you would comment on coaching staff when you don't know who they are.
Leppitsch is the ONLY assistant that has left.
Yes Leppitsch is the main one I believe we're missing , but have you heard of a bloke named Wayne Campbell? Opposition analyst & leadership development -ergo an assistant to the coach. (Personally not a fan, but we're still down two assistants from last year.) Try again champ.
EDIT: Tony just beat me to it.
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None of those Grand Finals were worth watching....
I reckon the supporters of the winners would think otherwise
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The Skata Cycle. 32 years and counting. Plop Plop Plop. ®©™
Aren't you sick of saying that? I'm sure as hell sick of seeing it
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You know, in 20 years, there has only been one ugly grand final win and that was Roos led Sydney. You might want to rethink the ugly football wins grand finals theory because there is nothing to support it. Longmire's Sydney was no where near as bad and at the end of the day, Hawthorn's inaccuracy gave them the win.
If Mark Harvey had the draw and injury run that Lyon had last year, Fremantle would have won the flag playing attacking football. Instead they lost it playing ugly.
As much as winning a flag ugly would take any joy out of it, how much more painful could it be than losing a flag playing ugly. Only good thing about last years Grand Final was seeing Lyon lose.
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The Skata Cycle. 32 years and counting. Plop Plop Plop. ®©™
Aren't you sick of saying that? I'm sure as hell sick of seeing it
Can't argue against the cycle
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The Skata Cycle. 32 years and counting. Plop Plop Plop. ®©™
Aren't you sick of saying that? I'm sure as hell sick of seeing it
Yeahright. :lol :rollin :lol
I'm sick of 32 years of failure, underachievement and spin that's what I am sick of your sick of something I have come up to describe this since our loss to Hawthorn and that's been two months.
Would you like me to change my saying.
The RFC 10 kg spin cycle. Underachievement, spin, crisis and failure, 32 years and still counting but don't worry it's ok, RFC told us so.®©™
How's that, feel snug as a bug in a rug now? :help
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Not really
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Then we wonder why there's a cycle of Skata at punt road.
What is causing the skata? Where is it located?
Why can't they get rid of the stench?
Got any actual solutions or do we just go plop, plop, plop and sling it at them?
Players who offer nothing like Titch Edwards getting contract extensions is one then having someone come on here and say Dusty should be traded because he doesn't run defensively is enough but Titch getting an extension is fantastic is another.
Can't think of anything else right now.
The Skata Cycle. 32 years and counting. Plop Plop Plop. ®©™
Oh no you dittint ;D I missed this one - that's a burn
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Don't watch them Patrick, simple as that
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The first line was just a rhetorical question - an aside and an example of a team that did make top 4 with a poor coach and a below average list the fell away badly afterwards and though there are a few similarities it wasn't intended to be the crux of the post which dealt with the current list and why they are headed for a bottom 4 finish this year after finishing 5th last year. Suprised someone of your self-proclaimed superior intellect was unable to grasp that.
Our list is clearly better than it was in 2002, certainly at it's core at least, coach...well that's up for debate, let's just say I don't think it's any coincidence that his poor performance this year has coincided with the loss of key assistants and the subsequent failure to replace them.
Rather amazing that you would comment on coaching staff when you don't know who they are.
Leppitsch is the ONLY assistant that has left.
Yes Leppitsch is the main one I believe we're missing , but have you heard of a bloke named Wayne Campbell? Opposition analyst & leadership development -ergo an assistant to the coach. (Personally not a fan, but we're still down two assistants from last year.) Try again champ.
EDIT: Tony just beat me to it.
Err no. You're both wrong CHAMP.
Yes I have heard of Wayne Campbell who from 2010 was an opposition scout but in the last couple of years has not had a coaching or scouting role but was involved in Leadership development
BUT
As has been posted numerous times, Wayne Campbell in the last year to 18 months was setting up the reserves team structure.
In searching for WP's post about Campbell doing the reserves job I came across quite a few of your posts about Campbell as a coach. Can you please take note that Campbell has not had a coaching role since Hardwick came on board for the start of 2010.
So see if you can take that on board finally since it's getting boring having to correct all the time.
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Yeah we've had injuries - but that's something you should budget for in the off season and why you need to improve the list and the depth. We seeed to assume we were going to have another good run with injuries. All we really did was pay massive overs for a spud to cover Maric and rookie another spud from Port to balance out the loss of Tuck but who is really just another Sam Lonergan.
Exactly this. You have to brace yourself for the worst. You can't expect your best players to be firing every single round. The coaching staff assumed Deledio, Martin, and Cotchin will be tearing it up in AA standard week in week out to cover the lack of improvement in Ellis, Conca whom hasn't had a full preseason to date, and a Grigg/Houli whom have most likely peaked.
Furthermore if there is something I am furious about with the club is that we don't have a NAB rising star nominee this year. I wouldn't care if they won it or not but the fact that we have no representation this year tells me we aren't putting enough work into developing the kids to cover for ageing players/potential injuries.
pretty hard to get a rising star nominee when you only take one kid eligible in the entire trade / draft period.
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Yeah we've had injuries - but that's something you should budget for in the off season and why you need to improve the list and the depth. We seeed to assume we were going to have another good run with injuries. All we really did was pay massive overs for a spud to cover Maric and rookie another spud from Port to balance out the loss of Tuck but who is really just another Sam Lonergan.
Exactly this. You have to brace yourself for the worst. You can't expect your best players to be firing every single round. The coaching staff assumed Deledio, Martin, and Cotchin will be tearing it up in AA standard week in week out to cover the lack of improvement in Ellis, Conca whom hasn't had a full preseason to date, and a Grigg/Houli whom have most likely peaked.
Furthermore if there is something I am furious about with the club is that we don't have a NAB rising star nominee this year. I wouldn't care if they won it or not but the fact that we have no representation this year tells me we aren't putting enough work into developing the kids to cover for ageing players/potential injuries.
pretty hard to get a rising star nominee when you only take one kid eligible in the entire trade / draft period.
You have to be under 21 and not have played 10 senior games before the start of the season. So McBean, McIntosh, Arnot & McDonough are all still eligible for this year's award and unless he plays every game from this week or the week after until the last round McBean will even still be eligible next year.
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The first line was just a rhetorical question - an aside and an example of a team that did make top 4 with a poor coach and a below average list the fell away badly afterwards and though there are a few similarities it wasn't intended to be the crux of the post which dealt with the current list and why they are headed for a bottom 4 finish this year after finishing 5th last year. Suprised someone of your self-proclaimed superior intellect was unable to grasp that.
Our list is clearly better than it was in 2002, certainly at it's core at least, coach...well that's up for debate, let's just say I don't think it's any coincidence that his poor performance this year has coincided with the loss of key assistants and the subsequent failure to replace them.
Rather amazing that you would comment on coaching staff when you don't know who they are.
Leppitsch is the ONLY assistant that has left.
Yes Leppitsch is the main one I believe we're missing , but have you heard of a bloke named Wayne Campbell? Opposition analyst & leadership development -ergo an assistant to the coach. (Personally not a fan, but we're still down two assistants from last year.) Try again champ.
EDIT: Tony just beat me to it.
Err no. You're both wrong CHAMP.
Yes I have heard of Wayne Campbell who from 2010 was an opposition scout but in the last couple of years has not had a coaching or scouting role but was involved in Leadership development
BUT
As has been posted numerous times, Wayne Campbell in the last year to 18 months was setting up the reserves team structure.
In searching for WP's post about Campbell doing the reserves job I came across quite a few of your posts about Campbell as a coach. Can you please take note that Campbell has not had a coaching role since Hardwick came on board for the start of 2010.
So see if you can take that on board finally since it's getting boring having to correct all the time.
Am positive that he was still opposition analyst in 2012 - 2013 not so sure, hence why I said 2 coaches in 2 years.
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Yeah, you're right TM.
Have done a bit more research this AM and came up with this.
Note that the club website has only as far as 2010 full Annual Report, listing staff (maybe if someone keeps them?)
2007 Bulldogs - Part time forward coach
2008 Bulldogs - Full time midfield coach
2009 Richmond - Full time midfield coach. Last year of Wallace with Rawlings as caretaker
2010 Full time midfield coach? First year of Hardwick with Daly as Forward coach, Lade as stoppage coach, Leppitsch as Defense coach.
2011 Not sure but I have a feeling he swapped with Daly.
2012 Opposition analyst and Leadership Development. Williams joined from Melbourne as forward coach, pushing Campbell out
2013 opposition analyst, Leadership and Manager of VFL strategy.
In this Age article from December, it says
"For the past 18 months, he has played a leading role in putting together Richmond's stand-alone VFL team."
So it's clear that Campbell hasn't had a direct coaching role for at least two years before he left.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/wayne-campbell-to-replace-jeff-gieschen-as-umpires-boss-20131229-301j3.html#ixzz35i0Ze72