One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: big tone on August 03, 2014, 02:00:47 PM
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If Astbury comes out next year and plays his season average to date of 7 games a year and then goes down again with another long term injury, do we keep him on our list? Can we afford too?
When do you cut your loses with players with body/injury issues?
Knights is another one that questions need to be asked if he goes down again.
It's one thing for a club to have faith but if blokes aren't playing games and getting some experience and intern improving then is that holding back our club?
Me, I'm not a fan of Astbury even when he is playing but I'm even less of a fan when he is not.
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I think that we will bring in a player like Kristian Jaksch from GWS to be honest. We only have 1 bonafide KPD and that is Alex Rance. Astbury doesnt play alot, Grimes doesnt play alot and is average and Chaplin is Chaplin. We have a problem in defence with our lack of depth in the key positions.
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I think that we will bring in a player like Kristian Jaksch from GWS to be honest. We only have 1 bonafide KPD and that is Alex Rance. Astbury doesnt play alot, Grimes doesnt play alot and is average and Chaplin is Chaplin. We have a problem in defence with our lack of depth in the key positions.
Grimes is another one. You can see by the way he has gone backwards that if you are injured and not playing you don't improve.
Young blokes that are playing in the twos that aren't quite there yet are are still learning and improving, consistent long term injured players are a liability.
If we could get Jaksch in we would be doing well. I'll take Shiel as well while you are at it. :thumbsup
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Hardwick.
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Hardwick.
x2
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IMO
Astbury is a huge upgrade on Chaplin
And makes life for rance and grimes better
I'd keep him as long as possible to see if his body can come good
Grimes played like 16 games and people were saying he was never going to play one more hes body was too poo.
Big blokes years. Look at Schultz. The delist Elton and Griffith brigade are mongs. Look at guys like mummy and cox I dot think they were world beaters when Elton/griff age. Gws has the best big blokes in the land, a troop of number one draft picks (Cameron would of gone one I assume) as good as they are still raw.
I could of held on too Derickx and Andrew Browne for a bit longer too.
Hampson is signicantl,y older than Astbury. We should be discussing his spot
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I'm not sure where Grimes fits in. He's body shape is ordinary for an AFL footballer
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I'm not sure where Grimes fits in. He's body shape is ordinary for an AFL footballer
Grimes is bereft of confidence and his disposal has gone backwards. Furthermore doesn't move the ball on quick enough. At the moment he is just doing a job nothing more, nothing less. Punching it out from 30 metres inside the field of play when he could have marked last week against West Coast is proof of this. Sadly out of form.
Thought Astbury stood up very well early in the year whilst Rance was injured. Astbury at this stage is still a keeper IMHO.
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I would however keep Astbury but I would seek to trade Dylan Grimes depending on what we could get in return.
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I think this has been Hardwicks major stragecic error not to use enough high draft picks on KPDs. Only Griffiths and Batchelor have been high draft picks used in defense. He inherited Rance, Chaplin was free agency, Grimes was rookie list. Morris was an older player. Given neither Batch or Griffs have worked out great they need to bite the bullet and spend the high picks on KPP and over the years some have to become defenders.
Hampson was a stuff up last year. Especially in the light that we knew neither of Griffs or Batch had cemented their place in the side Our backline is screaming out for a really good tall and a talented kick. Maybe they thought Astbury was the future. So I cant be too critical I suppose but I would have built from the backline 5 years ago
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I think this has been Hardwicks major stragecic error not to use enough high draft picks on KPDs. Only Griffiths and Batchelor have been high draft picks used in defense. He inherited Rance, Chaplin was free agency, Grimes was rookie list. Morris was an older player. Given neither Batch or Griffs have worked out great they need to bite the bullet and spend the high picks on KPP and over the years some have to become defenders.
Hampson was a stuff up last year. Especially in the light that we knew neither of Griffs or Batch had cemented their place in the side Our backline is screaming out for a really good tall and a talented kick. Maybe they thought Astbury was the future. So I cant be too critical I suppose but I would have built from the backline 5 years ago
Go out and spend some money on Frawley and we have a free hit at a quality, hard nosed backman. He is there, all we need to do is reach out and grab him.
Make him an offer to good to refuse. Sell the club to him. Sell him on the things we are doing this off season. Start with getting Jaksch and Shiel. Sell him on what we intend to do. It's amazing what people will buy into when the right person is selling it.
I truely believe we are two or maybe three quality players in the right position away from being a very good side. As well as some continued improvement and some luck.
Things can turn pretty quick if you have a decent crack. It will get some noses out of joint but it's what needs to happen.
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so how much would you offer Frawley big tone?
Are you suggesting paying him overs?
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so how much would you offer Frawley big tone?
Are you suggesting paying him overs?
And how will that affect the rest of the playing group that has been told to earn less for sustained success?
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IMO
Astbury is a huge upgrade on Chaplin
based on what exactly.
the simple fact is astbury has got nowhere near chaplins performance level on any sort of consistent basis or on any sort of consistent level.
personally i would like a rutten/lake/glass/ mcpharlin type at f/b. blokes who can be totally relied upon to shut out the bigger key fwds. id love an eric mckenzie type at chb and id play alex rance as our third tall. add to that i am really hoping kamdyn mcintosh can play of h/b as a tall running defender.
so what im aiming for down back is something like this.
b/ morris when fully fit. - rutten - rance
hb/ mcintosh - mckenzie - vlastuin
remember im talking type and in a way where we need to get to.
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Pace mobility and skills by foot
Astbury > Chaplin. I am concerned the team is slowish and Chaplin is especially loping and static
The simple fact is Astbury was leading the best and fairest
Ideally vlastuin should be playing in the middle
You are a bit delusional putting Mckenzie and rutten in your back six with rance in a pocket
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so how much would you offer Frawley big tone?
Are you suggesting paying him overs?
That's exactly what I'm suggesting!!!!!!!!!!!
That's how it works WP. :banghead
If it takes 800k pay it.
I really don't care how they get the money, just get it done.
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IMO
Astbury is a huge upgrade on Chaplin
based on what exactly.
the simple fact is astbury has got nowhere near chaplins performance level on any sort of consistent basis or on any sort of consistent level.
personally i would like a rutten/lake/glass/ mcpharlin type at f/b. blokes who can be totally relied upon to shut out the bigger key fwds. id love an eric mckenzie type at chb and id play alex rance as our third tall. add to that i am really hoping kamdyn mcintosh can play of h/b as a tall running defender.
so what im aiming for down back is something like this.
b/ morris when fully fit. - rutten - rance
hb/ mcintosh - mckenzie - vlastuin
remember im talking type and in a way where we need to get to.
Astbury is a rutten shutdown type of defender and did a very good job of it this season before his injury. Rance is a lot better than just a 3rd tall, hes an elite key defender of the competition now
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so how much would you offer Frawley big tone?
Are you suggesting paying him overs?
And how will that affect the rest of the playing group that has been told to earn less for sustained success?
I don't care.
It's time this club got tough and stop caring who is going to get upset.
If you are a decent player you will get paid accordingly.
To many players like Grigg and Jackson are on more money than what they deserve. Give it to the players that earn it.
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Chaplin Grigg Thomas houli Hampson e Edwards king Newman
And sudden you have money to play with
You could afford frawley and okeefe without the stigma of having a list full of plodders
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so how much would you offer Frawley big tone?
Are you suggesting paying him overs?
That's exactly what I'm suggesting!!!!!!!!!!!
That's how it works WP. :banghead
If it takes 800k pay it.
I really don't care how they get the money, just get it done.
That would be no problem if they were Pendlebury or Watson or Dangerfield or Ablett. However if you pay overs for a good ordinary player, what are the Cotchins or Martins or Riewoldts of the team going to think?
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so how much would you offer Frawley big tone?
Are you suggesting paying him overs?
That's exactly what I'm suggesting!!!!!!!!!!!
That's how it works WP. :banghead
If it takes 800k pay it.
I really don't care how they get the money, just get it done.
That would be no problem if they were Pendlebury or Watson or Dangerfield or Ablett. However if you pay overs for a good ordinary player, what are the Cotchins or Martins or Riewoldts of the team going to think?
Mate we only have half a dozen or so a graders
There is always going to be money for them
Add up what the mature age pickups are on... There is the problem
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Pace mobility and skills by foot
Astbury > Chaplin. I am concerned the team is slowish and Chaplin is especially loping and static
The simple fact is Astbury was leading the best and fairest
Ideally vlastuin should be playing in the middle
You are a bit delusional putting Mckenzie and rutten in your back six with rance in a pocket
I think I'm reading this wrong- are you saying Astbury has pace and mobility? :lol I hope not!! He is as wooden as a rocking horse.
And good skills by foot?
Other than Ellis I have never seen a bloke kick it sideways or backwards as much as this guy.
Let's face it, he stopped a couple of guys this year but he didn't offer much more than that.
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I consider Chaplin very slow and non fast
A full back first job is to stop the guy he's playing one
Astbury is certainly not a poorer creative rebounding defender than Chaplin
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I consider Chaplin very slow and non fast
A full back first job is to stop the guy he's playing one
Astbury is certainly not a poorer creative rebounding defender than Chaplin
Yes he is.
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Only vlastuin rance and houli give any real run from the backline. The rest are about evenly poor in that regard.
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Chaplin Grigg Thomas houli Hampson e Edwards king Newman
And sudden you have money to play with
You could afford frawley and okeefe without the stigma of having a list full of plodders
oh ffs when will the penny drop for you.
if we cut contracted players their salary remains in our salary cap hence affecting in a big way what we can pay. what the hell is wrong with you you do have some intelligence ffs use it.
heres a list of uncontracted players valid tioll end of may. and while looking at it remember we are most likely useing most if not all of our cap space. so if you want to cut a contracted player it still counts.
arnot,astbury, batchelor, dea, a edwards, elton, griffiths, helbig, knights, newman, ohanlon , petterd,king mcintosh, mcdonough, mcbean.
which of this motley lot would you prefer to see gone.
lets see king gone miles is upgraded.
im hoping for a minimum of 2 f/a garlett frawley big tones idea. , 1 trade vickery or s edwards for like player or pick., 5 nd picks so thats another 7 who have to go. for me those 7 are. griffiths trade for pick. newman ret, a edwards ret, helbig delist, ohanlon delist, batchelor trade/delist for pick, arnot delist.
on top of that rookies darrou, banfield, williams and stephenson all to go.
we need to find players and not just one or two like we usually do each yr.
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Actually think the improvement in the team has coincided with Chaplin's form improving.
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Pace mobility and skills by foot
Astbury > Chaplin. I am concerned the team is slowish and Chaplin is especially loping and static
The simple fact is Astbury was leading the best and fairest
Ideally vlastuin should be playing in the middle
You are a bit delusional putting Mckenzie and rutten in your back six with rance in a pocket
can you tell me why. personally rance is at his best on the move and taking the game on. third tall frees him up to actually utilise his strengths to his and the teams best advantage.
people dont get it still. alex is a running in motion player.
lets say we play adelaide pods, walker, and jenkins with lynch just to top it up. many sides are going this way. rutten gets pods, mckenzie who i think is in the top 3 kpds in the comp gets walker, rance will be needed to take on jenkins and mcintosh gets a similare sized lynch.
go look at sydney nm and many other sides. the game is getting taller and taller. but its not just height. its height with agilkity and mobility. cmon learn from what others are doing.
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so how much would you offer Frawley big tone?
Are you suggesting paying him overs?
That's exactly what I'm suggesting!!!!!!!!!!!
That's how it works WP. :banghead
If it takes 800k pay it.
I really don't care how they get the money, just get it done.
It works that way if Clubs allow it to work that way.
My take on FA is simple and it works like this and I'll use Frawley as an example.
Q: Does Frawley deserve to be the highest paid player at his current Club?
A: No
Q: What is he worth to his current Club? How much are they prepared to play?
A: In Frawley's case he is probably in their top half dozen to 8 players; so probably $500k a season at best but no more
Q: to get him is he worth becoming the highest paid player at his new Club on a very long term deal ?
A: No - because he is not going to win you premiership on his own. So you offer him only slightly more than what his current Club is offering. If he really wants to be part of the Club the money wont be sole factor of them coming
So IMHO Frawley isn't worth $800k a year. That simple. $600k perhaps but you don't want to throw all your eggs in one basket for one player.
And heaven forbid if a real gun becomes available and actually wants to come to Richmond; nominates Richmond and we can't accommodate because we've locked up a FA player long term (Frawley supposedly wants 5-7 years) by paying overs
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Chaplin Grigg Thomas houli Hampson e Edwards king Newman
And sudden you have money to play with
You could afford frawley and okeefe without the stigma of having a list full of plodders
oh ffs when will the penny drop for you.
if we cut contracted players their salary remains in our salary cap hence affecting in a big way what we can pay. what the hell is wrong with you you do have some intelligence ffs use it.
heres a list of uncontracted players valid tioll end of may. and while looking at it remember we are most likely useing most if not all of our cap space. so if you want to cut a contracted player it still counts.
arnot,astbury, batchelor, dea, a edwards, elton, griffiths, helbig, knights, newman, ohanlon , petterd,king mcintosh, mcdonough, mcbean.
which of this motley lot would you prefer to see gone.
lets see king gone miles is upgraded.
im hoping for a minimum of 2 f/a garlett frawley big tones idea. , 1 trade vickery or s edwards for like player or pick., 5 nd picks so thats another 7 who have to go. for me those 7 are. griffiths trade for pick. newman ret, a edwards ret, helbig delist, ohanlon delist, batchelor trade/delist for pick, arnot delist.
on top of that rookies darrou, banfield, williams and stephenson all to go.
we need to find players and not just one or two like we usually do each yr.
i am sure there is some kind of mutual termination options
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so how much would you offer Frawley big tone?
Are you suggesting paying him overs?
That's exactly what I'm suggesting!!!!!!!!!!!
That's how it works WP. :banghead
If it takes 800k pay it.
I really don't care how they get the money, just get it done.
It works that way if Clubs allow it to work that way.
My take on FA is simple and it works like this and I'll use Frawley as an example.
Q: Does Frawley deserve to be the highest paid player at his current Club?
A: No
Q: What is he worth to his current Club? How much are they prepared to play?
A: In Frawley's case he is probably in their top half dozen to 8 players; so probably $500k a season at best but no more
Q: to get him is he worth becoming the highest paid player at his new Club on a very long term deal ?
A: No - because he is not going to win you premiership on his own. So you offer him only slightly more than what his current Club is offering. If he really wants to be part of the Club the money wont be sole factor of them coming
So IMHO Frawley isn't worth $800k a year. That simple. $600k perhaps but you don't want to throw all your eggs in one basket for one player.
And heaven forbid if a real gun becomes available and actually wants to come to Richmond; nominates Richmond and we can't accommodate because we've locked up a FA player long term (Frawley supposedly wants 5-7 years) by paying overs
Well said. :clapping
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I dont want Frawley, Id prefer we trade for a kid like Jaksch from GWS
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I dont want Frawley, Id prefer we trade for a kid like Jaksch from GWS
yep Jaksch, Tomlinson..
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so how much would you offer Frawley big tone?
Are you suggesting paying him overs?
That's exactly what I'm suggesting!!!!!!!!!!!
That's how it works WP. :banghead
If it takes 800k pay it.
I really don't care how they get the money, just get it done.
It works that way if Clubs allow it to work that way.
My take on FA is simple and it works like this and I'll use Frawley as an example.
Q: Does Frawley deserve to be the highest paid player at his current Club?
A: No
Q: What is he worth to his current Club? How much are they prepared to play?
A: In Frawley's case he is probably in their top half dozen to 8 players; so probably $500k a season at best but no more
Q: to get him is he worth becoming the highest paid player at his new Club on a very long term deal ?
A: No - because he is not going to win you premiership on his own. So you offer him only slightly more than what his current Club is offering. If he really wants to be part of the Club the money wont be sole factor of them coming
So IMHO Frawley isn't worth $800k a year. That simple. $600k perhaps but you don't want to throw all your eggs in one basket for one player.
And heaven forbid if a real gun becomes available and actually wants to come to Richmond; nominates Richmond and we can't accommodate because we've locked up a FA player long term (Frawley supposedly wants 5-7 years) by paying overs
Mate, you'll be 6 feet under before your fairy tale comes true. But good on you for not putting all your eggs in one basket.
In relative terms, if you had spent 8 years at a job and still enjoyed being there, and that's all you new, and all your friends were there and you were on 100k, would you leave and go to another job where you would have to earn all the respect again, make new friends, learn all their systems, that for another 20k?
Considering we are not much more advanced than Melbourne you would want more that 100k to move.
It baffles me after 30 years of being pathetic that people don't want the club to take a risk and have a go at a free hit like Frawley... And Goddard when he was available.
Half our problem is we don't rate spending money/draft picks on quality defenders. All our first draft picks have been on onballers or forwards for as long as I can remember.
Spend the money now on a key defender that will do the job for the next 5,6,7 years.... No need to wait for development, he is 1000% ready to go.....And then draft a midfielder with our first pick. :lol
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Simple fact is I don't think Frawley is worth $800k a year or deserves a 5-7 year deal
I'm happy for them to go after Free Agents and to make a big play for someone who can win you games off their own boot or turn a game
Frawley isn't that sort of player IMHO. Even experts in the media are saying he isn't worth that much.
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Simple fact is I don't think Frawley is worth $800k a year or deserves a 5-7 year deal
I'm happy for them to go after Free Agents and to make a big play for someone who can win you games off their own boot or turn a game
Frawley isn't that sort of player IMHO. Even experts in the media are saying he isn't worth that much.
So which FA should we go for? Who out there that is a FA that can win you games off their own boot and turn a game?
Mate there isn't that many players in the AFL that can do that let alone be up as free agents.
The other way to look at it even if you still live in the good old days is how many members or supporters would re-join or take out a membership after such a horrible year if they saw the club at least have a decent crack at trying to right that wrong? I know you have said you are not sure you will spend the same money you have been after such a terrible year.
I'm sure an accountant can work that out even if he cannot see a free hit when it's staring him in the face.
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This year isn't the year for a FA.
We need to tidy up the list where we can and then reassess next year.
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This year isn't the year for a FA.
We need to tidy up the list where we can and then reassess next year.
You don't rate Frawley? An AA defender that can stop the monsters but can actually get involved in the game as well by getting the footy.
Is our backline locked and loaded? Oh yer we have Dave Astbury, I think he's winning our B&F.
Maybe we could take a FA both years? Although we have won 5 in a row, we probably don't need the free hits.
Who is a FA next year? WP tells me there is a few guys available that can win games off their own boot and can turn a game that may come cheap. :whistle because the last thing this club needs is to pay overs.
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So which FA should we go for? Who out there that is a FA that can win you games off their own boot and turn a game?
Mate there isn't that many players in the AFL that can do that let alone be up as free agents.
So we have to take a free agent every year?
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Chappy was woeful early on but his form in the last month has been pretty solid.
Its been a few years since Frawley was one of the best defenders. Would rather pinch Jaksch.
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So which FA should we go for? Who out there that is a FA that can win you games off their own boot and turn a game?
Mate there isn't that many players in the AFL that can do that let alone be up as free agents.
The other way to look at it even if you still live in the good old days is how many members or supporters would re-join or take out a membership after such a horrible year if they saw the club at least have a decent crack at trying to right that wrong? I know you have said you are not sure you will spend the same money you have been after such a terrible year.
I'm sure an accountant can work that out even if he cannot see a free hit when it's staring him in the face.
As an accountant I can assure you that $800k over say 5 years is not a free hit ;D. And as an accountant I'd be derelict in my responsibilities to say otherwise ;D
this year's FA pool is practically non-existent with most of them re-signing. Frawley becomes by default the best of the left over bunch, hence why he looking for $800k a season. However, prior to all the this year's FA's going off the market the list wasn't great. And there wasn't and isn't any that deserve(d) $800k a season. Don't need to target a FA every season; there's always the trade.
Facts are there is a lot of young talent north of the border. GWS cannot keep all of them, that's where I'd be looking, trading with them to bring a couple of there young guns to our Club.
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So which FA should we go for? Who out there that is a FA that can win you games off their own boot and turn a game?
Mate there isn't that many players in the AFL that can do that let alone be up as free agents.
The other way to look at it even if you still live in the good old days is how many members or supporters would re-join or take out a membership after such a horrible year if they saw the club at least have a decent crack at trying to right that wrong? I know you have said you are not sure you will spend the same money you have been after such a terrible year.
I'm sure an accountant can work that out even if he cannot see a free hit when it's staring him in the face.
As an accountant I can assure you that $800k over say 5 years is not a free hit ;D. And as an accountant I'd be derelict in my responsibilities to say otherwise ;D
this year's FA pool is practically non-existent with most of them re-signing. Frawley becomes by default the best of the left over bunch, hence why he looking for $800k a season. However, prior to all the this year's FA's going off the market the list wasn't great. And there wasn't and isn't any that deserve(d) $800k a season. Don't need to target a FA every season; there's always the trade.
Facts are there is a lot of young talent north of the border. GWS cannot keep all of them, that's where I'd be looking, trading with them to bring a couple of there young guns to our Club.
I totally understand the potential trade talent from GWS and GCS. But the thing with trading to get something good is you have to give something good 99% of the time.
I won't go on about Frawley because as per usual we haven't got the guts to have a go, let's face it if our long suffering supporters arnt willing to want to put their feet in the water, why should the club?
But why will a successful side like Geelong or Hawthorn pay him his $800k? Are they the dumb ones? WP I don't think so. Maybe they know that's just what it takes to be a successful club while teams like the tigers pay Grigg $350/$400k, Houli $300k, Chaplin $350/$400k, even Griff $250k
Anyway have a great day :thumbsup
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I totally understand the potential trade talent from GWS and GCS. But the thing with trading to get something good is you have to give something good 99% of the time.
I won't go on about Frawley because as per usual we haven't got the guts to have a go, let's face it if our long suffering supporters arnt willing to want to put their feet in the water, why should the club?
Been a huge bug bear fo mine for years, our refusal to be daring at the trade table.
But why will a successful side like Geelong or Hawthorn pay him his $800k? Are they the dumb ones? WP I don't think so. Maybe they know that's just what it takes to be a successful club while teams like the tigers pay Grigg $350/$400k, Houli $300k, Chaplin $350/$400k, even Griff $250k
Anyway have a great day :thumbsup
IMHO there is no way Geelong or Hawthorn would pay Frawley $800k. Can see N0rt or the Bombers doing but not the Hawks or Cats. I can see Frawley going to the Cats but not on $800k, he will settle for less to get to a successful club. He (actually more likely his managment) will hold lesser clubs to ransom and demand the big $$$ but will drop his proce to get to a good club.
Also, and I forgot to post it before.
Our number 1 defender in Alex Rance is out of contract next season, would think he is a far greater priority than Frawley right now.
Ditto Martin & Cotchin. We need to lock our guns away and then see what's left over to throw at free agents
Would hate to think our club would be so stupid as to throw mega bucks at a FA and as a result we lose one of our guns in the process because we got our numbers wrong ;D
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I totally understand the potential trade talent from GWS and GCS. But the thing with trading to get something good is you have to give something good 99% of the time.
I won't go on about Frawley because as per usual we haven't got the guts to have a go, let's face it if our long suffering supporters arnt willing to want to put their feet in the water, why should the club?
Been a huge bug bear fo mine for years, our refusal to be daring at the trade table.
But why will a successful side like Geelong or Hawthorn pay him his $800k? Are they the dumb ones? WP I don't think so. Maybe they know that's just what it takes to be a successful club while teams like the tigers pay Grigg $350/$400k, Houli $300k, Chaplin $350/$400k, even Griff $250k
Anyway have a great day :thumbsup
IMHO there is no way Geelong or Hawthorn would pay Frawley $800k. Can see N0rt or the Bombers doing but not the Hawks or Cats. I can see Frawley going to the Cats but not on $800k, he will settle for less to get to a successful club. He (actually more likely his managment) will hold lesser clubs to ransom and demand the big $$$ but will drop his proce to get to a good club.
Also, and I forgot to post it before.
Our number 1 defender in Alex Rance is out of contract next season, would think he is a far greater priority than Frawley right now.
Ditto Martin & Cotchin. We need to lock our guns away and then see what's left over to throw at free agents
Would hate to think our club would be so stupid as to throw mega bucks at a FA and as a result we lose one of our guns in the process because we got our numbers wrong ;D
Me too. Maybe they need a good man like yourself running the books :thumbsup
We could get rid of the deadwood I mentioned and have some left over for a party to celebrate. :lol
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I remember preseason when Grimes went down many people here were bemoaning the ability of Astbury. They said he would never make it. Season comes and he becomes our most improved player.
I would take Astbury over Grimes any day of the week. Astbury has the size and strength to trouble the monster forwards like Cloke, Tippett, Hawkins, Petrie and Walker. We are a better balanced defense when we have Astbury at Full Back, Rance CHB and Chaplin the third/floating defender.
Astbury has good disposal and can feed the ball off to Rance, Houli etc to run the ball out of the D50.
I do agree with you about his game output though. Unless he can get his body right and start to string together more games through a season so we can rely upon him he will never become a permanent fixture in the backline. Grimes is the same but his limitations are now starting to mount. Grimes doesn't have the size to compete body on body nor the confidence to mark or depose of the ball cleanly.
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I remember preseason when Grimes went down many people here were bemoaning the ability of Astbury. They said he would never make it. Season comes and he becomes our most improved player.
I would take Astbury over Grimes any day of the week. Astbury has the size and strength to trouble the monster forwards like Cloke, Tippett, Hawkins, Petrie and Walker. We are a better balanced defense when we have Astbury at Full Back, Rance CHB and Chaplin the third/floating defender.
Astbury has good disposal and can feed the ball off to Rance, Houli etc to run the ball out of the D50.
I do agree with you about his game output though. Unless he can get his body right and start to string together more games through a season so we can rely upon him he will never become a permanent fixture in the backline. Grimes is the same but his limitations are now starting to mount. Grimes doesn't have the size to compete body on body nor the confidence to mark or depose of the ball cleanly.
I disagree on who I'd prefer. I'd take Grimes over Astbury all day long.
Grimes has been pretty average to date this year but like most others who miss pre season he has found it hard to catch up. IMO if he stays injury free, next year he will be a lot better.
There's a few things I look at from any new player coming into the AFL and that if they can keep up with the game with their body (which most can) and their head (which not all can)..so if they can think quick enough when they have the footy.
The other is if they have tenacity at the footy. Big or small they need that special thing that separates AFL players from local footballer. It's hard to describe because it's not just aggression or courage, or strength, or pace, it's footy smarts and endeavor to win at all costs.
And IMO blokes like Jaydon Post didn't have it, Griffiths doesn't have it and I don't think Astbury has it. That's not to say they cannot play the game but it's a brutal industry and if you are to succeed it takes more than just a bit of talent.
Most of the elite are wired differently to most of us.
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This year isn't the year for a FA.
We need to tidy up the list where we can and then reassess next year.
You don't rate Frawley?
Nope, wants to much and has shown himself to be an ordinary bloke via his dealings with Melbourne this year.
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I remember preseason when Grimes went down many people here were bemoaning the ability of Astbury. They said he would never make it. Season comes and he becomes our most improved player.
I would take Astbury over Grimes any day of the week. Astbury has the size and strength to trouble the monster forwards like Cloke, Tippett, Hawkins, Petrie and Walker. We are a better balanced defense when we have Astbury at Full Back, Rance CHB and Chaplin the third/floating defender.
Astbury has good disposal and can feed the ball off to Rance, Houli etc to run the ball out of the D50.
I do agree with you about his game output though. Unless he can get his body right and start to string together more games through a season so we can rely upon him he will never become a permanent fixture in the backline. Grimes is the same but his limitations are now starting to mount. Grimes doesn't have the size to compete body on body nor the confidence to mark or depose of the ball cleanly.
I was on the Grimes > Astbury band wagon. For now I would still keep Grimes over Astbury although Astbury has had the better season, not that I think we have the cattle to get rid of either of them. Don't know if his season might be over exaggerated in hindsight but I remember Grimes having a really good year a few years back that Astburys didn't match this year. He was marking the ball and using it well out of defence and did some pretty good shut down roles. If Grimes and Astbury could overtake Chaplin then I'd be even happier.
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I remember preseason when Grimes went down many people here were bemoaning the ability of Astbury. They said he would never make it. Season comes and he becomes our most improved player.
I would take Astbury over Grimes any day of the week. Astbury has the size and strength to trouble the monster forwards like Cloke, Tippett, Hawkins, Petrie and Walker. We are a better balanced defense when we have Astbury at Full Back, Rance CHB and Chaplin the third/floating defender.
Astbury has good disposal and can feed the ball off to Rance, Houli etc to run the ball out of the D50.
I do agree with you about his game output though. Unless he can get his body right and start to string together more games through a season so we can rely upon him he will never become a permanent fixture in the backline. Grimes is the same but his limitations are now starting to mount. Grimes doesn't have the size to compete body on body nor the confidence to mark or depose of the ball cleanly.
I was on the Grimes > Astbury band wagon. For now I would still keep Grimes over Astbury although Astbury has had the better season, not that I think we have the cattle to get rid of either of them. Don't know if his season might be over exaggerated in hindsight but I remember Grimes having a really good year a few years back that Astburys didn't match this year. He was marking the ball and using it well out of defence and did some pretty good shut down roles. If Grimes and Astbury could overtake Chaplin then I'd be even happier.
the reality is we cant afford to cut any of the talls as far as numbers go. if we do cut em at the very least we must replace em.
i have several gripes with grimes but the biggest one would be hes as soft as butter imo. astbury i agree with others he has shown an ability to play on and greatly negate the bigger fwds.i think hes worth persevering with atm. even if we got frawley id be looking at a kpd in the nd or rookie draft as well.
id be happy to get frawley because the player i would like to see freed up is rance. frawley f/b, astbury chb and rance third tall. would also like to see a tall running defender like mcintosh make it. a fit morris to shut down the smls and a classy rebounding player like deledio or a cool headed good reader of the play who makes good decisions like vlastuin to round out the backline.
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I unlike some others agree re: Rance as 3rd tall. Yes he can play on the best but he is better suited as a 3rd tall and it would be a real luxury to be able to play him as one