One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on November 23, 2014, 05:33:47 AM
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Club-by-club guide to the 2014 AFL draft: part two
Emma Quayle
The Age
November 23, 2014
RICHMOND
In: Taylor Hunt
Out: Aaron Edwards, Brett O'Hanlon, Brad Helbig, Orren Stephenson, Ben Darrou, Cadeyn Williams, Todd Banfield, Daniel Jackson, Jake King, Matthew Arnot
Rookie upgrades: Anthony Miles
Draft picks: 12, 33, 52, 70, 88 (Miles).
TALL FORWARDS: Jack Riewoldt, Tyrone Vickery, Ben Griffiths, Liam McBean, Todd Elton
TALL DEFENDERS: Alex Rance, Dylan Grimes, Troy Chaplin, David Astbury
SMALL/MEDIUM FORWARDS: Ben Lennon, Chris Knights, Sam Lloyd, Nathan Gordon, Matt McDonough
SMALL/MEDIUM DEFENDERS: Chris Newman, Steven Morris, Jake Batchelor, Bachar Houli, Ricky Petterd, Kamdyn McIntosh, Matt Dea
MIDFIELDERS: Trent Cotchin, Brett Deledio, Dustin Martin, Nick Vlastuin, Brandon Ellis, Reece Conca, Shaun Grigg, Shane Edwards, Nathan Foley, Anthony Miles (rookie), Taylor Hunt, Matt Thomas (rookie)
RUCKS: Ivan Maric, Shaun Hampson
The Tigers looked here, there and everywhere for midfielders during the trade period, eventually adding Taylor Hunt on as a free agent. The potential availability of Peter Wright seems the only thing that could sway them for going that way with pick 12; the Tigers have not used their first pick on a tall since choosing Ty Vickery at No.8 in 2008, but while Liam McBean has shown promise in the VFL they don't really have a genuine next option on the go when it comes to untried, developing players, and Wright would appeal for that reason as well as his ability to jump into the ruck in time. That said, there will be a number of top-notch onballers available at their pick, and someone like Tom Lamb could get through to round two. Any of Liam Duggan, Paul Ahern, Corey Ellis and Lachie Weller would be good picks for different reasons, given Duggan's smarts, Ahern's creativity and run, Ellis' cool head and kick, and Weller's class. Nakia Cockatoo would give them a burst of pace they could do with but may be too big a call at 12 given his injury history, lack of exposed form and the other players likely to be available at that pick. Should the Tigers opt for Wright, they should still find themselves with a selection of good options at 33. Lamb would be a value pick at this point, Nathan Drummond is tough and Toby Green plays with some inventiveness across half-forward.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/clubbyclub-guide-to-the-2014-afl-draft-part-two-20141122-11p228.html
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Quality from Emma as always :clapping
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Ellis over weight would not be kotcha
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I'm hoping for Weller at 12, then Lamb at 33.
If Wright was available though you'd have to consider him.
This bird is a better journo than most of the bunch.
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ah ive been going on about getting another pick in the first rnd for tom lamb. it didnt happen and we wont take him at 12.
the one id like at 33 is tyler kietel.
amazing emma knows more about our list than most posters
only positions she got wrong was elton who should be in with the defenders.
mcintosh is a tall defender not a medium.
plus griffiths, vickery and possibly mcbean should have been listed as ruck/fwd or tall utilities.we dont need 3 200cm utilities.
the clear and obvious list deficiencies are
1kpf not 200cm tall. 1 tall fwd 190-194 cm
tall defender numbers if you put elton and mcintosh there are spot on id argue though we need a top level kpd to partner rance.
we have too many flankers both fwd and defense the problem also being quality.
4 to 6 mids short on the list
1 ruckman at the very least.
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can you explain why talls have to be 194 and not taller or is that a claw secret?
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Dust Martin is the same height as jack dyer was
Trend is not for smaller players
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can you explain why talls have to be 194 and not taller or is that a claw secret?
nope ive done that lots of times. its pretty simple but i find the simple things for you are hard. if you actually read posts properly or used just one iota of common sense you would not need to ask. go look for yourself.
but i will ask these questions again for about the 100th time.
how many 200cm plus players have become good consistent key fwds. you can count em on a few fingers. tippett is one and probably the best of em.
how many 200cm plus ruck /fwds do we need while we only have one at 195cm. seems you dont think we need balance in our list.
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The famous claw '22' formulae :bow
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Hale. 201
Franklin 196?
Tippett 200?
Ottens 202
Tom Boyd 201
Patton 197
Kreuzer 200. ( I have memory's of hm doing well in fwd line vs richmond)
Watts 196. (vs richmond )
Kosi 197. (Before that bump on wing) / 50 goals 2009
Edit: Mathew richardson guy was close 200cm
how many 200cm plus players have become good consistent key fwds.
every position is getting bigger / stronger / faster so there will be more 200cm plus players good consistent key fwds in the future than the past i guess
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how many 200cm plus players have become good consistent key fwds. you can count em on a few fingers. tippett is one and probably the best of em.
Perhaps it would be be more pertinent to ask how many 200+cm players become good good consistent footballers, which position they normally play and why?
how many 200cm plus ruck /fwds do we need while we only have one at 195cm. seems you dont think we need balance in our list.
perhaps i'm reading this wrong, but it seems to be that you are suggesting we should look at ensuring our tall forwards are under between 195 and 200cm rather than their ability and attributes.
surely the taller the kpf is, with all other thing being equal, the harder he is to match up on?
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Quality from Emma as alwayss :clapping
dont rate her
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Hale. 201
Franklin 196?
Tippett 200?
Ottens 202
Tom Boyd 201
Patton 197
Kreuzer 200. ( I have memory's of hm doing well in fwd line vs richmond)
Watts 196. (vs richmond )
Kosi 197. (Before that bump on wing) / 50 goals 2009
Edit: Mathew richardson guy was close 200cm
how many 200cm plus players have become good consistent key fwds.
every position is getting bigger / stronger / faster so there will be more 200cm plus players good consistent key fwds in the future than the past i guess
how tall was Salmon? Also simon madden used to go fwd and take marks though he was a ruck.
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198
6' 5 6.49606299
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I wouldn't take the ruck man, even if he was avail, how did Kreuzer go, more chance FJ paninng for gold at another Maric family bbq :shh would back him in
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they should still find themselves with a selection of good options at 33. Lamb would be a value pick at this point, Nathan Drummond is tough and Toby Green plays with some inventiveness across half-forward.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/clubbyclub-guide-to-the-2014-afl-draft-part-two-20141122-11p228.html
Typo by Emma. The bold was meant to say Toby McLean.
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I wouldn't take the ruck man, even if he was avail, how did Kreuzer go, more chance FJ paninng for gold at another Maric family bbq :shh would back him in
kreuzer is a gun
he always seems to go ok vs tigers
id swap him for vickery no worries
we could use an A Grade ruck, id take the ruckman. we could use a nicnat or leunherburger big time as claw says vickery is poo and maric body like an old lady
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Tough old lady is maric.
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She sure is but will she get threw 90% of games over next 5 years?
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Hale. 201 best role ruckman.
Franklin 196? sheesh a real good kpp height.
Tippett 200? yep hes done well as a fwd i mentioned him but hes an exception.
Ottens 202 the brad variety was a top level ruckman who could go fwd.interesting geelong played both mooney and hawkins in the key posts and otto had the ruck/fwd role.ottens became a top level ruckman you cant say that about his fwd role.
Tom Boyd 201 we are yet to find out if he will be a very good kpf. he may be one of the exceptions eh.
Patton 197, is a big power fwd id want my kpps to be around 194 - 197.
Kreuzer 200. ( I have memory's of hm doing well in fwd line vs richmond) another ruckman who can go fwd.
Watts 196. (vs richmond ) sheesh a failure as a tall player.
Kosi 197. (Before that bump on wing) / 50 goals 2009. 48 goals in 09 and that was the only yr he got close to 50. was not ruckman height in the modern game and was a good kp height and size 197cm 95kg.
Edit: Mathew richardson guy was close 200cm ah richo 195cm 100+kg.
how many 200cm plus players have become good consistent key fwds.
every position is getting bigger / stronger / faster so there will be more 200cm plus players good consistent key fwds in the future than the past i guess
i agree players are getting bigger and stronger but it remains a constant that very few 200cm plus players become top level kpfs.
but just for you again so you arent asking silly questions all the time. , ive done this to death before but i break down the talls the following way.and i use it as a guide there are exceptions as there are in everything. an exception is exactly that its not the norm.
talls or third talls good runners quicker more agile provide run, 190 - 193 , that doesnt mean you cant have slightly taller players doing the role and it doesnt mean a 190 - 193 cm player cant play kp. the type im talking here is gunstan or mackie birchall. one whos an exception is the 196cm schofield at wce but he is an exception. you also get the odd 188 189 cm player who can do the role.gibson comes to mind.
one we have sorta played in this role is chaplin he has neither the run smarts skills or pace to be doing it.
kpps 194 - 197 again its not written in stone and there are exceptions but the norm is in this range. the better kpfs in particular fall in this range but theres the odd exception.riewoldt x 2 franklin richardson cameron hawkins cloke walker pods roughhead and i can go on all fall into this range. a slightly taller version at 198cm is carlisle a shorter version would be pavlich at about 192cm the slightly shorter kpps invariably have real good size pav is close to 100kg.
198 plus to me the agility mobility suffers from here on in.you will get your share of kpds in this area but there have been so few top level kpfs over 200cm in particular.
most have either been ruckmen or rucks who can play a bit fwd. the good ruck/fwds have invariably been top level at one of the roles.
if i was going to the draft and looking for a good kpp the breakdown of what has gone before tells me im most likely to find a good one in the 194 - 197 height range.
anyway im sick of having to explain myself all i seem to do is go over things ive said before because muppets like you just dont read posts. anyway take out of it what you want take the pee even, i ts to be expected and i dont care.
all i have said is when you look at what has gone before very few players at 200cm and above have gone on to become top level kpfs.
if i was to look at say vickery and ask will he become a top level kpf one of many guides would be the number of blokes at his height who have made it purely in that role.
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- I don't watch much football these days but isn't hale best role forward in last few years
- my google says Richo 197. IMO 197 is close to 200.
- you like Patton @ 197... Bt 200 is too big? Lol three cm. sound pretty set in stone to me
- kosi finished on 250 goals. Nt too shabby. 1.2 a game same as Tyrone Vickery... I remember a purple patch where he s going like Wayne Carey,. His hight we not a disadvantage during the wee period where he was killing it.
Seeing as jack dyer was the same hight as dustin Martin. Would a possible reason not be as follows - historically a 200 player would of played in the ruck. As ruckman were not unusual at 6'2, 6'3. Which was seen as big back then, but only medium now?
What do you make of Buckley playing that giraffe at center half back/full back? Okeefe?
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- I don't watch much football these days but isn't hale best role forward in last few years
- my google says Richo 197. IMO 197 is close to 200.
- you like Patton @ 197... Bt 200 is too big? Lol three cm. sound pretty set in stone to me
- kosi finished on 250 goals. Nt too shabby. 1.2 a game same as Tyrone Vickery... I remember a purple patch where he s going like Wayne Carey,. His hight we not a disadvantage during the wee period where he was killing it.
Seeing as jack dyer was the same hight as dustin Martin. Would a possible reason not be as follows - historically a 200 player would of played in the ruck. As ruckman were not unusual at 6'2, 6'3. Which was seen as big back then, but only medium now?
What do you make of Buckley playing that giraffe at center half back/full back? Okeefe?
as i said take out of it what you like i couldnt give a stuff. yur attitude doesnt surprise me in the least.
out of the hundreds of talls on lists you go thru and show us all, the number of 200cm plus players who have become real good consistent kpfs.then tell us all that its normal for these types to become good kpfs.
when talking kpfs if you want to ignore the very real fact that so few at 200cm and above have become good players well thats your prerogative.
why do you think theres been talk of peter wright slipping in the draft and yet the shorter mccartin is a top 10 cert. simple people are reasonably certain mccartin will be top notch they cant say that about wright in either role.
just to finish its clear you dont watch much footy, hale has played mostly in the ruck since going to hawthorn.hes become a pretty decent ruckman imo but you cant say the same about him as a kpf.played mostly fwd at nm and struggled imo.
i have richo listed at 195 for every yr from 05 - his retirement. but im not going to quibble 195 197 he falls into the area where kps have been constantly good. dont you think theres something to take and learnfrom that. apparently not.
did i say i like patton i dont think so but wonders will never cease he falls into that category.
kosi was 197cm played most of his career as a fwd and most yrs was ordinary imo. he falls into same height category as richo cloke and most other kpfs who have been good not that i think kosi any good.
if you think 20 25 goals a season is good enough for one of your key fwds then you do have the bar set way too low. kosi played as a kp most of his career and only once kicked more than 30 goals.
still id take kosi over vickery anyday atm.
historically 200cm players still play in the ruck.
historically very few 200cm players have managed to become top level kpfs. what are you arguing here. at 200cm it is still a facrt that most dont have the agility pace and athletic ability to make it as kpfs.
anyway as it seems you adamant there a re lots of 200cm players out there who have made it as kpfs it will be interesting to see your list of these types.
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ah Richo 195
http://australianfootball.com/clubs/every_player/Richmond/10
It's saying Richo = 197
historically 200cm players still play in the ruck.
I am confused by this because you use both past and present tense in a short sentence.
John Nicholas 191
Newman 189
Dyer. 185
Cazaly 180
Polly farmer. 191
Allan gale 185
Gordon "Roy" Wright 188
198 plus to me the agility mobility suffers from here
Would or would you not say:
'Agility, mobility, and other similar attributes, are specific weakness in Tyrone Vickery game'
.?
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ah Richo 195
http://australianfootball.com/clubs/every_player/Richmond/10
It's saying Richo = 197
historically 200cm players still play in the ruck.
I am confused by this because you use both past and present tense in a short sentence.
John Nicholas 191
Newman 189
Dyer. 185
Cazaly 180
Polly farmer. 191
Allan gale 185
Gordon "Roy" Wright 188
198 plus to me the agility mobility suffers from here
Would or would you not say:
'Agility, mobility, and other similar attributes, are specific weakness in Tyrone Vickery game'
.?
as i said if you read which you never do im not going to quibble about weather richo was 195 or 197cm either way. for one lifes too short to be so petty and two he falls into the category where i stated its the height range where most top level kpfs have played. mate you just look silly.
i would say vickerys agility and mobility good for a 200cm player but its largely negated by two things. first the slightly shorter players that play on him are usually more agile and mobile hence this advantage is negated. secondly he is so poor in other areas that you expect 200cm players to be good in, that decent assetts like agility arent enough to off set these things.
hm yr 7 nearly 100 games 25 yrs old not long after the season starts, and one word sums his career up to date. ORDINARY. Yet you carry on like a little bitch because people dare criticise poor old vickers one your favorites.. you dont really believe he doesnt deserve the critiques surely.
by the way im still waiting for your list of 200cm plus players who have become top level kpfs.
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Salmon