One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on January 30, 2015, 03:51:57 PM
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Hardwick: 'we will be better' ....
VIDEO: http://www.afl.com.au/video/2015-01-30/hardwick-we-will-be-better
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Hardwick wants Dusty to become Jobe 2.0
Jennifer Phelan
afl.com.au
January 30, 2015 3:01 PM
DUSTIN Martin will be challenged to take his midfield game to a new level in 2015 and become like Jobe Watson, Richmond coach Damien Hardwick says.
After an impressive third finish in the best and fairest, Martin is entering his sixth AFL season having added attacking weapons to his repertoire.
In the Tigers' run to the finals the 23-year-old became a match winner more than once when pushed forward to win crucial contests.
While Hardwick wants Martin to remain an explosive option inside 50 this season, he says it's time he became a midfield force much like the Essendon skipper on a more permanent basis.
"We think his running capacity has really improved over the course of his pre-seasons he's had with us, and we feel for him to take that next step as a player it's going to be the majority of him playing midfield," Hardwick told AFL.com.au.
"He needs to become a contested ball king, a tackle king in that area, much like a Jobe Watson type of player that's capable of setting up the game from the middle of the ground.
"We look forward to giving him that opportunity."
In 2014, Martin ranked in the elite bracket for score assists, score involvements and goals, and was second behind Jack Riewoldt at the club for goals scored with 27.
He won possession 57 per cent of the time he was targeted inside 50, and also 55 per cent of his offensive one-on-one contests.
Memorably, he booted the match winner against Adelaide in round 21 with less than a minute left after he out-muscled Ricky Henderson and gathered the ball.
Then, two weeks later, he kept his feet in a contest with Sydney Swans' defender Ted Richards and ran on to kick an important steadier with just over five minutes left in the Tigers' must-win clash that decided their finals fate.
Hardwick said the intention to improve his midfield game didn't mean his time as an impact player inside 50 was over.
"The year previous, funnily enough as a midfielder, he had more shots on goal than he did as a forward last year," he said.
"The thing that was noticeable last year was he probably won three or four games for us late in games when we put him one out.
"There's going to be stages where he'll certainly push deep and it's going to be an exciting prospect for us to have him more in the midfield but also having that capability of winning us a game up forward also."
The Tigers weren't shy in their desire to improve their midfield depth, as well as forward line speed, in the exchange period last year.
They went after inside midfielders David Armitage and Jack Trengove, and had a crack at luring Essendon's Jason Winderlich.
Armitage stayed a Saint, Trengove a Demon after it was revealed his problematic foot had not healed (he later had surgery to fix the damage to his navicular bone that will threaten his 2015 season), and Winderlich back-flipped on retirement plans to play on with the Bombers.
While Hardwick admitted recruiting such players would have helped to fill certain roles, he believed the Tigers had the capability to develop their own – starting with Martin.
"The loss of [Dan] Jackson is enormous for us, so we thought if we could bring in a player of similar capabilities that would be a win," he said.
"Obviously it didn't happen, which is disappointing, but we're more than pleased with the players we've got there to fulfil that role.
"Dustin will play some more midfield time, we drafted a young player in Corey Ellis, who is a pure inside mid that we're very excited, about [although] he's injured at the moment.
"We've got some players we feel can significantly improve us in that area and we're looking forward to giving those guys the responsibility of doing so."
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-01-30/jobe-the-second
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So he wants him to start taking peds ?
Dusty is already better than jub ...
Edit: whatever we think, we can't post allegations of illegal activity here as it puts OER at legal risk. There's a tribunal hearing going on now and that will decide certain players' innocence or guilt. We need to wait for its conclusion and the judge's final decision.
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So he wants him to start taking peds ?
Dusty is already better than jub ...
Edit: whatever we think, we can't post allegations of illegal activity here as it puts OER at legal risk. There's a tribunal hearing going on now and that will decide certain players' innocence or guilt. We need to wait for its conclusion and the judge's final decision.
You should have said "so he wants him to take banned drugs?".
This is undisputed. AOD is banned and has been under S0. WADA has s confirmed this. ASADA stuffed up and that is why they didn't prosecute for it.
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Good to see Hardwick looking to stretch Dusty.
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dusty > jab wartskin
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I'm just glad we will be better than last year
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Disappointing comparison from Dimma.
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lol at least hardwick sees it you lot just defend because its what you do.
hes not good defensively he doesnt run both ways, which is huge problem for us across the board, he doesnt tackle and his c/ps are so lop sided its silly. just imagine what he could become if he addresses these things.
i sometimes think these blokes hardwick and media read my posts. ive been complaining about exactly these things with martin.
on watson how pathetic are people denigrating a player because of asada. id hate for our club to be treated the same way they have been.asada happened over a 1yr period i dunno if you bozoes have noticed but watson has played played consistently well the last 9 seasons.
heres a bloke who if at our club the very same nuffies who put the boots into him would be calling him one of the best players we have had.
hes a great comparison and martin would do well to end up half as consistent and as good inside.there are simiolarities with watson and martin watson suffered early in his careeer osteitis pubis and hamstring and soft tissue issues riddled his first three seasons. he was disillusioned and was not working hard enough and was not fit. his old man gave him some advice and that was to be the best you can or just quit because he wasnt going anywhere .
that was the end of 05 and the rest is history.
dusty slightly different he made an impact in his first 4 seasons but hes at the stage where he needs to do a jobe. work hard at the things that lets him down and become a truly elite player of the comp.
you know great players stand up when all around them fail dusty is still one of the crowd leaving it to others to stand up and take the game by the scruff of the neck and drag his team mates along with him.
ffs we have done sweet f/a as far as bringing in ready to go players goes. we replaced jackson with hunt. the improvement if it comes has to come from within you all know this, and yet you lot are bitching like girls when hardwick points out the obvious about martin.
they all need to improve they all have areas that need work
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You must be reading posts that I aren't seeing
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Plenty of other players to compare - I don't see too many cyclists being compared to lance Armstrong numb nuts ::)
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you know great players stand up when all around them fail dusty is still one of the crowd leaving it to others to stand up and take the game by the scruff of the neck and drag his team mates along with him.
Didn't watch the games where he won it for us off his own boot?
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He's got Nfi, dimmer.
"The year previous, funnily enough as a midfielder, he had more shots on goal than he did as a forward last year," he said.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
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I'm just glad we will be better than last year
Well the do gooders of the site told us so, and now that it's been confirmed, I think we all owe them and the club an apology. :phew
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lol at least hardwick sees it you lot just defend because its what you do.
hes not good defensively he doesnt run both ways, which is huge problem for us across the board, he doesnt tackle and his c/ps are so lop sided its silly. just imagine what he could become if he addresses these things.
i sometimes think these blokes hardwick and media read my posts. ive been complaining about exactly these things with martin.
Some of us see it.
Dusty is on the verge of being a champion if he addresses the weaknesses in his game which are easier fixed than most with his toolset.
He's is incredibly gifted but is 15% short of being what he could be with a bit more discipline in his game.
Hardwick sees what he could be, not what he is now.
I like that.
Hopefully Dusty has it in him to be the absolute best player he can be because if he does we will be talking about him for years to come but right now he's only just in the top 5 on our list.
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Claw, you keep banging on about Dusty's contested possession rate, but that is down down to Hardwick.
He wanted dusty to get more outside ball to protect his young body from getting too much of a smashing.
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Lmao.
Bottom 8 in 2015 FOR SURE.
Bookmark it.
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Lmao.
Bottom 8 in 2015 FOR SURE.
Bookmark it.
Bottom 4
Double book mark it
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I'm just glad we will be better than last year
Well the do gooders of the site told us so, and now that it's been confirmed, I think we all owe them and the club an apology. :phew
What happened to not playing the man?
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I'm just glad we will be better than last year
Well the do gooders of the site told us so, and now that it's been confirmed, I think we all owe them and the club an apology. :phew
What happened to not playing the man?
How is it playing the man if I'm offering an apology?
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Lmao.
Bottom 8 in 2015 FOR SURE.
Bookmark it.
Bottom 4
Double book mark it
Looks like it's you and me in 2015,Chuckie.
WTF does dimmer expect the improvement to come from....or is he just counting on other clubs going backwards?
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We will be better. Bookmark it.
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I still remember fondly the warm feeling I got last year when, despite losing almost every week, we were actually a better side than the year before.
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just sign him up and worry about the comparisons later you knob hardwick.
Also try and keep your job
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I still remember fondly the warm feeling I got last year when, despite losing almost every week, we were actually a better side than the year before.
The loss to Melbourne for the Hafey Tribute game particularly warmed the cockles of my heart. It was after this game that I knew we had made it.
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I still remember fondly the warm feeling I got last year when, despite losing almost every week, we were actually a better side than the year before.
The loss to Melbourne for the Hafey Tribute game particularly warmed the cockles of my heart. It was after this game that I knew we had made it.
Perfect example.
On face value it was a very disappointing loss and a disgrace to the legacy of a legend.
Fortunately, it was quickly pointed out that we were stupid to be angry or upset about it because we were a better side than before, giving us much to celebrate.
Just goes to show the coaches know best and we really are wrong to question them.
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just sign him up and worry about the comparisons later you knob hardwick.
Also try and keep your job
Pretty sure It isn't Hardwick's job to get his signature on a new contract
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im sure he is aware of all contract talks.
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I still remember fondly the warm feeling I got last year when, despite losing almost every week, we were actually a better side than the year before.
The loss to Melbourne for the Hafey Tribute game particularly warmed the cockles of my heart. It was after this game that I knew we had made it.
Just goes to show the coaches know best and we really are wrong to question them.
Speaking of which, the holding back of Miles was a particular masterstroke by the coaches.
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(http://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/love-smiley-029.gif)
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im sure he is aware of all contract talks.
I am sure he is but you said "sign him up...you knob Hardwick"
Getting any player to sign a contract isn't the Coach's job.
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im sure he is aware of all contract talks.
I am sure he is but you said "sign him up...you knob Hardwick"
Getting any player to sign a contract isn't the Coach's job.
who are you james hird trying to be technical.
sign him up yes. He is the coach so buck stops with him.
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Can't argue with the second half of Angus's quote. :gotigers
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Claw, you keep banging on about Dusty's contested possession rate, but that is down down to Hardwick.
He wanted dusty to get more outside ball to protect his young body from getting too much of a smashing.
oh dear oh dear oh dear. so its all down to the coach.
sheesh i can win a ball but wait i cant dimma told me i had to stay outside.
just 32% last yr of martins possesions were contested. it would be one of the lowest c/p rates going around. ffs out and out outside players like hill and and pearce at freo won more c/ps.ffs shaun grigg had a better ratio and bugger me ellis was not far behind him.
just an example of what the better players do.
ablett went at 56% fyfe went at 60% watson is around 50% most yrs went at 41% this yr. wheres dusty at a whopping 32% i combined with the lack of running both ways the lack of tackles and stuff me martin has plenty to improve and work on.
when i played i had pride in the way i went about it seems too many of ours have little pride at all. if the coaching staff wont challenge em then they need to challenge themselves there is no excuses.
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im sure he is aware of all contract talks.
I am sure he is but you said "sign him up...you knob Hardwick"
Getting any player to sign a contract isn't the Coach's job.
Look.
What good is a coach if he can't get players to re-sign
On the strength of his personal relationship with the player and coaching ability?
Allocate the responsibility on paper to another if u must but a decent coach
Is able to pull poo like this off. FUCKN dud
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Long bow
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So I guess they don't play for the coach at richmond.
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The Tom Hafey game loss.
Pfffft.
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What do they play for? What do they stand for?
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Oh good, another player Hardwick is trying to change into someone he is not. He tried to change him into a backman last year and now this... Really. Wouldn't want to leave him where is is most damaging would you Damien...let's wait for half the season before he realises his mistake AGAIN.
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Not that I agreed but I understood the disdain for Dusty's move to the backline. But you cannot seriously say you don't want him playing mostly midfield?!!!!
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He should of said that he wants him to be like Jabs Twatson without needing the jabs
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Not that I agreed but I understood the disdain for Dusty's move to the backline. But you cannot seriously say you don't want him playing mostly midfield?!!!!
and winning more contested ball. to me watson is a great example of what martin should strive for.
in martin f first yr he displayed a well rounded gane apart from his ability to run both ways due to his motor. it had us all in awe of what would come.
its an idictment on both player and club that he had more c/ps in his first yr than any other season. he had more tackles and almost double the amount of clearances than now all in his first yr.
he sure finds more ball but key areas have gone backwards.
i dont know about you but i sure as hell think he needs to be challnged and told to bloody pick it up. he can be every bit as good as watson and more damaging. we dont want this bloke almost exclusively sitting on the outside. we want him to round his game out be a leader have the ability to bring team mates into the game, and consistently go get a hard ball when we need it. we know he can do it but hes gone too far one way , he now needs to get back on a more level footing and become the thing that makes mids exceptional and that is being well rounded.
hes a bloody good player already but he could be so so much better. this is why we have coaches.
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And here is me thinking he had his best year for the club last year
I now know that must be wrong
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And here is me thinking he had his best year for the club last year
I now know that must be wrong
you shouldnt believe what you read or are told by reporters or the club. thought you would have worked that one out by now.
did he really have his best yr or did he just get a bit more cheap ball.
me i think hes pretty much the same player he was in yr 3. the only area that has continued to rise is his uncontested possesion count hes getting more ball it was one area that had to improve as do others.
for what its worth i think his 2nd season his all round season best.
hes a pick 3 who has all the attributes to become a wonderful well rounded player, who imo is fast becoming almost exclusively an outside player. hardwick for once is right in challenging him.
i dont get it people complain about the coach. they know we must improve and that improvement can only really come from within. when hardwick demands players improve some key areas of their games they go all defensive and have a whack at the coach.
martin can improve and must. the obvious is he improves those areas that he isnt doing so well in.
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Oh good, another player Hardwick is trying to change into someone he is not. He tried to change him into a backman last year and now this... Really. Wouldn't want to leave him where is is most damaging would you Damien...let's wait for half the season before he realises his mistake AGAIN.
Dimmers a Fuckn loser'boys.
Nothing happening with him th on board. Lmao
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It's comical
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It's farcical
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Personally I prefer Martin forward. Dont think he's got the tank or defensive mindset for midfield.
Use his attacking strengths in the F50.
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In his first year he was used as a battering ram. Whilst it was great to watch I think he'd be ultimately wasted to be used purely to be an extractor considering we don't have that many good users of the ball.
Getting Dustin Martin involved in scoring chains for me is absolutely essential. Would you rather Martin sending the ball inside 50 or Ricky Petterd? But back to Claw's argument about Cont Poss.
I did a footy wire search and what I got was
Year Team CP UP ED ED% CG CM GA I50 MI5 CL R50 1% BO TOG%
2014 Richmond 178 380 375 67 93 7 18 84 15 58 41 26 19 1828
2013 Richmond 162 403 385 69.1 63 6 13 91 14 58 35 21 32 1875
2012 Richmond 169 291 313 70 62 5 8 85 15 67 23 23 30 1607
2011 Richmond 194 291 347 71.4 60 12 20 93 14 82 56 16 23 1856
2010 Richmond 179 255 300 70.6 63 3 4 74 1 101 30 25 3 1643
To kick things off, Claw he had more CPs in 2011, than his first year so you are wrong there. And he only had 1 less contested possession than his first year but then he also had more goal assists, more marks inside 50, takes more running bounces these days not to mention kicks more goals (and crucial goals for that matter)
As the stats show he had the most clearances in his first year but I think using Miles and Cotchin for that area and have Martin use his elite kicking for our forwards is a better strategy given the list deficiencies we have. If we can get a better user of the ball for i50 delivery (our draft selections this year could be the answer to that) then I'm sure you will have him play more well rounded as Claw suggests.
I think at this point in time a valid comparison for Dustin Martin is Sam Mitchell so I pulled up his stats
Year Team CP UP ED ED% CG CM GA I50 MI5 CL R50 1% BO TOG%
2014 Hawthorn 161 285 325 72.4 45 2 9 51 6 84 30 40 12 1314
2013 Hawthorn 232 440 496 73.7 63 3 21 84 5 106 68 46 27 2171
2012 Hawthorn 300 357 491 75.2 69 1 27 100 5 154 41 35 9 2121
2011 Hawthorn 295 419 473 67.5 91 1 19 108 9 131 34 31 11 2074
2010 Hawthorn 179 349 349 66.6 61 1 3 65 3 105 38 26 6 1666
Suffice to say Sam Mitchell did really well in the CP category in 2011 (Hawks came 3rd), 2012 (made GF). For me this is because Hawthorn became a better team in general. Hawthorn developed their outside runners better allowing the better decision making Sam Mitchell to play more inside at certain stoppages as well as run loose and damage the opposition with his laser like kicking.
Do I think Martin can be a better player than he is right now? Of course I do. I firmly believe he can win a brownlow and especially in the 1st half of the 2014 season he was the only reason I would still watch RFC games. But to suggest he's gone backwards and saying he's not as good as his 2010/2011 seasons because of one stat I think is very short sighted.
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And here is me thinking he had his best year for the club last year
I now know that must be wrong
you shouldnt believe what you read or are told by reporters or the club. thought you would have worked that one out by now.
did he really have his best yr or did he just get a bit more cheap ball.
me i think hes pretty much the same player he was in yr 3. the only area that has continued to rise is his uncontested possesion count hes getting more ball it was one area that had to improve as do others.
for what its worth i think his 2nd season his all round season best.
FWIW it was my opinion based on watching for all four quarters of ALL the games that RFC played, nothing to do with reporters or what the club said
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would have to agree with chuck on this one. Loved his year hope he keeps it up.
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Yep his year was great, no doubt about it, he was great when he played centre/forward. So why try to change him again....leave him where he is. Jobe Watson is a different player so why does Dimma need to change Martin into that type of player when he had a great year doing what he does best....that's my point. Leave him at centre/forward.
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In his first year he was used as a battering ram. Whilst it was great to watch I think he'd be ultimately wasted to be used purely to be an extractor considering we don't have that many good users of the ball.
Getting Dustin Martin involved in scoring chains for me is absolutely essential. Would you rather Martin sending the ball inside 50 or Ricky Petterd? But back to Claw's argument about Cont Poss.
I did a footy wire search and what I got was
Year Team CP UP ED ED% CG CM GA I50 MI5 CL R50 1% BO TOG%
2014 Richmond 178 380 375 67 93 7 18 84 15 58 41 26 19 1828
2013 Richmond 162 403 385 69.1 63 6 13 91 14 58 35 21 32 1875
2012 Richmond 169 291 313 70 62 5 8 85 15 67 23 23 30 1607
2011 Richmond 194 291 347 71.4 60 12 20 93 14 82 56 16 23 1856
2010 Richmond 179 255 300 70.6 63 3 4 74 1 101 30 25 3 1643
To kick things off, Claw he had more CPs in 2011, than his first year so you are wrong there. And he only had 1 less contested possession than his first year but then he also had more goal assists, more marks inside 50, takes more running bounces these days not to mention kicks more goals (and crucial goals for that matter)
As the stats show he had the most clearances in his first year but I think using Miles and Cotchin for that area and have Martin use his elite kicking for our forwards is a better strategy given the list deficiencies we have. If we can get a better user of the ball for i50 delivery (our draft selections this year could be the answer to that) then I'm sure you will have him play more well rounded as Claw suggests.
I think at this point in time a valid comparison for Dustin Martin is Sam Mitchell so I pulled up his stats
Year Team CP UP ED ED% CG CM GA I50 MI5 CL R50 1% BO TOG%
2014 Hawthorn 161 285 325 72.4 45 2 9 51 6 84 30 40 12 1314
2013 Hawthorn 232 440 496 73.7 63 3 21 84 5 106 68 46 27 2171
2012 Hawthorn 300 357 491 75.2 69 1 27 100 5 154 41 35 9 2121
2011 Hawthorn 295 419 473 67.5 91 1 19 108 9 131 34 31 11 2074
2010 Hawthorn 179 349 349 66.6 61 1 3 65 3 105 38 26 6 1666
Suffice to say Sam Mitchell did really well in the CP category in 2011 (Hawks came 3rd), 2012 (made GF). For me this is because Hawthorn became a better team in general. Hawthorn developed their outside runners better allowing the better decision making Sam Mitchell to play more inside at certain stoppages as well as run loose and damage the opposition with his laser like kicking.
Do I think Martin can be a better player than he is right now? Of course I do. I firmly believe he can win a brownlow and especially in the 1st half of the 2014 season he was the only reason I would still watch RFC games. But to suggest he's gone backwards and saying he's not as good as his 2010/2011 seasons because of one stat I think is very short sighted.
hmm i used official afl stats according to them martin in 2010 had 195 c/ps, and 238 were u/ps at an ave of 20.24 diposals for that yr.
all the the stats are exactly the same except for the c/p and u/p stats in 2010.
yes i want to see him play as a battering ram when needed, i want him to get outside ball i want to see him hit the fringes at pace. i want him to win more c/ps. in effect i want him to actually use his god given gifts which is a body ideal for being used as a bulldozer and actually become well rounded. i want to seehim run both ways not just fwd of the ball. he needs to lay more tackles and work for his teammates with out the ball.
i suggest hes gone backwards in certain areas and imo the stats back that up.but he has got much better in other areas and improved overall. i also said i thought his 2nd yr to date his best yr because his game was more well rounded he kicked goals the most of his career. he won c/ps still won plenty of clearances and still did all the outside things.
you know i agree with much of what your saying but the solution imo is not turning martin into something he shouldnt be but findiding outside players with really good pace and run who can deliver the ball.mark ricciuto used his body in an illustrious career martin has a body that should be utilised.
we struggled all yr until miles came into the side and that tells me we are very thin on the ground for contested ball winners. i reckon the club agrees as well they made getting an inside mid their #1 priority in the off season.