One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Diocletian on May 06, 2015, 05:33:55 PM
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So looks like they're on the outer up at GC and may not be around next year .... worth a crack?
Bennell's obviously a bit of an idiot and a soft lazy flanker which we have too many of as it is but none even 1/10th as talented as him. Matera would fill a desperate need. McKenzie would be handy if Rance walks....even he doesn't, with Chaplin not getting any younger and not much good anyway, Grimes held together with tape , Elton & Astbury still unproven and Batchelor a hack and not really KPD, we still need more key position depth down back. My main concern is that reports are these blokes can't handle Rocket's tough love and much preferred Ballcupper McKenna's mollycoddling....that kind of attitude is the last thing we need more of, they'd probably love it if Cuddles Hardwick was still here but hopefuly he won't be and the next coach will demand far higher standards....
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Taylor made for RIchmond going by that last paragraph.
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Would still have McKenzie but if we lost Rance we'd have to go after a bigger defender surely?
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Would still have McKenzie but if we lost Rance we'd have to go after a bigger defender surely?
Yes he wouldn't be like for like replacement but we need more options regardless. Looks like we're grooming Elton to take the opposition key forward but he seems more of a stopper at this stage - like a bigger version of Thursfield - than a rebounder so we'd probably have to split the roles Rance did between him & someone like McKenzie. That's presuming Elton makes the grade of course. I'd say we'd also be looking for KPD's and Rance types via the draft but they likely wouldn't be ready for a few years unless we found a stuff....look how long it took Rance to even look like he belonged at AFL level...but anyway the short answer is yes we should be looking for an experienced bigger defender as well.....
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Put them in a good environment and like whoa these kids could thrive , GC :lol put TV and Dea on the table and get it done Blair :clapping
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Taylor made for RIchmond going by that last paragraph.
:clapping
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Been a fan of McKenzie since he went as a 17 y/o to GC. Is more of a rebounder than a stopper, can play loose, third man up, and has a long, ripping left boot to go to and set up out of defence.
I don't think we're good enough to get the most out of Bennell, Matera would fill a need but McKenzie would be my pick of the bunch. Honestly think a straight trade for Vickery could be done (and maybe an end/early round pick swap) if he truly were on the table at season's end since I don't think Eade is too impressed with Smith in the ruck at the moment.
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Put them in a good environment and like whoa these kids could thrive , GC :lol put TV and Dea on the table and get it done Blair :clapping
The only thing I want to see on the table when Blair is around is his letter of termination
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Put them in a good environment and like whoa these kids could thrive , GC :lol put TV and Dea on the table and get it done Blair :clapping
The only thing I want to see on the table when Blair is around is his letter of termination
Agreed.
Answers to nobody but has plenty to answer for to plenty of people. :help
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Put them in a good environment and like whoa these kids could thrive , GC :lol put TV and Dea on the table and get it done Blair :clapping
The only thing I want to see on the table when Blair is around is his letter of termination
That won't be happening any time soon , when you ve got scalps like Maric houli and miles on your belt that's not a bad CV. :shh..and don't tell me about Hampson , even hawthorn stuffed up once with dayle garlett
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Put them in a good environment and like whoa these kids could thrive , GC :lol put TV and Dea on the table and get it done Blair :clapping
The only thing I want to see on the table when Blair is around is his letter of termination
That won't be happening any time soon , when you ve got scalps like Maric houli and miles on your belt that's not a bad CV. :shh..and don't tell me about Hampson , even hawthorn stuffed up once with dayle garlett
Absolutely Bojo.
Everyone makes mistakes.
Hawthorn are current back to back premiers last time I checked.
It's like your Pee Wee Herman and your telling Mike Tyson hey you're convicted felon and no longer heavyweight champ. It might be true but doesn't mean its the right. :help
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Put them in a good environment and like whoa these kids could thrive
Ok, so where do you suggest?
It would be unfair on these "kids" to bring them to Richmond.
You must be thinking Hawthorn, Sydney, Geelong etc if you really want them to "thrive" WHOA
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how sad, all three would walk into best XVIII
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I'm not sure why we wouldn't target all 3 if available. There was a mutiny when we didn't pick up Garlett from Carlton. I'm sure if Melbourne picked up Bennell, something similar would occur on this firum
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From the low down on bigfooty, Benell sounds like bad news, this is not his first offense. People are comparing him to Fevola. I'm not sure were so good with drunks. Were probably better to steer clear of him.
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If they're stars they aint coming here.
Not part of the Blair Book of Bargains. :help
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If we sack Hardwick, Richardson, Hartley, Jackson, Gale, Burge, O'Neal and get competent people in those positions, I think they could do very well here.
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I love posts that start with if on this forum.
The f in if stands for fairytales.
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Put them in a good environment and like whoa these kids could thrive , GC :lol put TV and Dea on the table and get it done Blair :clapping
The only thing I want to see on the table when Blair is around is his letter of termination
That won't be happening any time soon , when you ve got scalps like Maric houli and miles on your belt that's not a bad CV. :shh..and don't tell me about Hampson , even hawthorn stuffed up once with dayle garlett
Absolutely Bojo.
Everyone makes mistakes.
Hawthorn are current back to back premiers last time I checked.
It's like your Pee Wee Herman and your telling Mike Tyson hey you're convicted felon and no longer heavyweight champ. It might be true but doesn't mean its the right. :help
Why don't you name all the players Hartley has recruited from other clubs , games played and BF placings , Maric, Miles , houli, Chaplin ....not a bad start champ , ya know what I'm sayin
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Put them in a good environment and like whoa these kids could thrive , GC :lol put TV and Dea on the table and get it done Blair :clapping
The only thing I want to see on the table when Blair is around is his letter of termination
That won't be happening any time soon , when you ve got scalps like Maric houli and miles on your belt that's not a bad CV. :shh..and don't tell me about Hampson , even hawthorn stuffed up once with dayle garlett
Absolutely Bojo.
Everyone makes mistakes.
Hawthorn are current back to back premiers last time I checked.
It's like your Pee Wee Herman and your telling Mike Tyson hey you're convicted felon and no longer heavyweight champ. It might be true but doesn't mean its the right. :help
Why don't you name all the players Hartley has recruited from other clubs , games played and BF placings , Maric, Miles , houli, Chaplin ....not a bad start champ , ya know what I'm sayin
Bo they are just soldiers. Colonels and Lieutenants win you flags not foot soldiers.
We are so far off the mark in our recruiting.
Our list is like Swiss cheese full of holes.
Granted these blokes are ok but that's it.
How about all the misses? Too many to mention.
Can't harp on the few that go ok when we've got a plethora or had a plethora that didn't
Come on man even the most optimistic RFC fan knows we need a major reno.
We all love the club but this failure is deep rooted. Enough is enough.
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Why don't you name all the players Hartley has recruited from other clubs , games played and BF placings , Maric, Miles , houli, Chaplin ....not a bad start champ , ya know what I'm sayin
He stuffed up with Hampson - no one can dispute that. To give up a 2nd round pick and give him a 3 year contract is one of the biggest if not the biggest trade error this club has ever made and that's saying something
He stuffed up giving Grigg an 3 year contract extension. Yes he was a good get at the start, what we needed at the time but facts are he isn't going to get better, he aint going to win us a flag. So why give him 3 years?
He recommends what to offer contract wise to existing players on our list because he ranks our list. Want me to list some of them that have a lot of folks doing this :huh3
You know there's Vickery 3 years, Conca, Morris and hell even Knights (personally I have no probs with that one but many do) want me to go on?. Then there's those who left and we got nothing for eg White .... all have Blair's prints all over them. Yep he got some right but he's made some howlers and it's about time he was held to account rather than getting promotions and given more power/influence
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Why don't you name all the players Hartley has recruited from other clubs , games played and BF placings , Maric, Miles , houli, Chaplin ....not a bad start champ , ya know what I'm sayin
He stuffed up with Hampson - no one can dispute that. To give up a 2nd round pick and give him a 3 year contract is one of the biggest if not the biggest trade error this club has ever made and that's saying something
He stuffed up giving Grigg an 3 year contract extension. Yes he was a good get at the start, what we needed at the time but facts are he isn't going to get better, he aint going to win us a flag. So why give him 3 years?
He recommends what to offer contract wise to existing players on our list because he ranks our list. Want me to list some of them that have a lot of folks doing this :huh3
You know there's Vickery 3 years, Conca, Morris and hell even Knights (personally I have no probs with that one but many do) want me to go on?. Then there's those who left and we got nothing for eg White .... all have Blair's prints all over them. Yep he got some right but he's made some howlers and it's about time he was held to account rather than getting promotions and given more power/influence
Here's a list of the 5 second round draft picks prior to the Hampson trade.
Elton
Griffiths
Post
Batchelor
McBean
Not one player from that list is even close to being a good contributor to a mid ladder side.
Throw in Conca and Vickery as first rounders in the same drafts and I don't think our trading is the real issue..
But you would prefer to blame Hartley for giving first rounders a contract extension??
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But you would prefer to blame Hartley for giving first rounders a contract extension??
So you are saying that Vickery deserved his current deal? Conca? Grigg?
I blame Hartley for a lot because his job list management.
he ranks our list, he ranks opposition lists, he determines what our approach to recruiting & trading should be on year by year basis based on his ranking system. He made the call to go after Hampson .. and that is clear disaster. Instead of listing previous 2nd round draft choices before the Hampson trade would suggest to look at those who were selected around the pick we gave up and see how they are going
Better yet why don't we look at the other rucknen traded the same year. McEvoy & Longer. longer wanted out of Brisbane, is a good young ruckman wh can actually take a mark..far better option than Hampson but no Blair said Hampson is the mans and gave him 3 years. Stellar job indeed
Hartley is involved in players contracts - IMESHO he shouldn't be doing contracts but he does.
He has too much influence in too many areas
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But you would prefer to blame Hartley for giving first rounders a contract extension??
So you are saying that Vickery deserved his current deal? Conca? Grigg?
I blame Hartley for a lot because his job list management.
he ranks our list, he ranks opposition lists, he determines what our approach to recruiting & trading should be on year by year basis based on his ranking system. He made the call to go after Hampson .. and that is clear disaster. Instead of listing previous 2nd round draft choices before the Hampson trade would suggest to look at those who were selected around the pick we gave up and see how they are going
Hartley is involved in players contracts - IMESHO he shouldn't be doing contracts but he does.
He has too much influence in too many areas
To answer your question simply- yes all 3 deserved contract extensions. Knowbody knows what they are getting paid, Grigg at the time of his extension was playing ok and had earnt his extension. At the time he was in our best 22 but should have been fased out by now but Dimma in his wisdom refuses to play kids in front of him. IMO if he was still on our list but only playing when we had some injuries would be ok with me.
Vickery and Conca are both still young, both have played some good footy and both are early draft picks that deserve extra time to improve especially Vickery being a tall. If we decide they are not the right fit for us at least if they are contracted we get to trade them for someone we might think can do a better job. If uncontracted they can walk and we get nothing.
Pretty simple stuff really.
Just on Hampson being a disaster, it's a pretty big word consider the list I gave you before- it was a miss but so was Post and most of the others.
As I said before FJ is the luckiest bloke alive IMO with his record. And I don't think many could defend that, except Bo of course. :lol
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To answer your question simply- yes all 3 deserved contract extensions. Knowbody knows what they are getting paid, Grigg at the time of his extension was playing ok and had earnt his extension. At the time he was in our best 22 but should have been fased out by now but Dimma in his wisdom refuses to play kids in front of him. IMO if he was still on our list but only playing when we had some injuries would be ok with me.
Vickery and Conca are both still young, both have played some good footy and both are early draft picks that deserve extra time to improve especially Vickery being a tall. If we decide they are not the right fit for us at least if they are contracted we get to trade them for someone we might think can do a better job. If uncontracted they can walk and we get nothing.
Pretty simple stuff really.
It's not about what they are being paid. It is about someone like Vickery been given a 3 year extension. Based on his performances I'd argue an extension should have been 1 yr with an option of a 2nd based on certain criteria being met. Not a 3 year gift, he should be like others and made to earn his contract as opposed to being gifted 3 years because he was a first round draft pick or the fact he is a tall. How much more gifting do we have to do with this bloke. Other players haven't been afforded such a luxury
As for Grigg again should have been 1 yr with an option 2 years max, not 3. I scratch my head as to why we give blokes 3 year details when it's obvious that other sides arent' going to be chasing them. But we lock ourselves into contracts that are of no value at trade time because those players aren't of any interest to other clubs, so they aren't going to walk anywhere if no one else wants them. And being shackled with these dud contracts limits our ability to go after decent FAs
I rate Conca, but based on his injury history you have to question the logic behind a long deal.
I also agree with you re your comments about Dimma not playing kids, hence why we don't know if Elton is any good or going to be. Ditto McBean
Just on Hampson being a disaster, it's a pretty big word consider the list I gave you before- it was a miss but so was Post and most of the others.
Hampson was given a 3 year deal when he came to us (the year he had remaining + a further 2 years). He is currently running around in the VFL. He spent the 2nd half of 2014 in the VFL. Outside of being a reasonable tap ruckman he cannot take a mark to save himself and he's not much good at being a resting ruckman up forward because the marking issue plus the fact he isn't a great kick limits his ability to play that role. So based on what we gave up and considering the options available at the same trade period (eg McEvoy & Longer) that we didn't even consider because Hampson was "the man" then I think there is a fair argument to say based on where it currnetly sits it's been a disaster.
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List management in its entirety is the issue, can't just be narrowed down to drafting VS trading.
Can see some remarkable stuff-ups in both areas. Picking the wrong blokes, overlooking the right ones, paying too much for some players, and just not chasing certain opportunities anywhere near hard enough.
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List management in its entirety is the issue, can't just be narrowed down to drafting VS trading.
Can see some remarkable stuff-ups in both areas. Picking the wrong blokes, overlooking the right ones, paying too much for some players, and just not chasing certain opportunities anywhere near hard enough.
Agree, just think compared to the whacks Jackson has received Hartley has got off very lightly indeed.
Especially considering he is role means he is involved in both
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To answer your question simply- yes all 3 deserved contract extensions. Knowbody knows what they are getting paid, Grigg at the time of his extension was playing ok and had earnt his extension. At the time he was in our best 22 but should have been fased out by now but Dimma in his wisdom refuses to play kids in front of him. IMO if he was still on our list but only playing when we had some injuries would be ok with me.
Vickery and Conca are both still young, both have played some good footy and both are early draft picks that deserve extra time to improve especially Vickery being a tall. If we decide they are not the right fit for us at least if they are contracted we get to trade them for someone we might think can do a better job. If uncontracted they can walk and we get nothing.
Pretty simple stuff really.
It's not about what they are being paid. It is about someone like Vickery been given a 3 year extension. Based on his performances I'd argue an extension should have been 1 yr with an option of a 2nd based on certain criteria being met. Not a 3 year gift, he should be like others and made to earn his contract as opposed to being gifted 3 years because he was a first round draft pick or the fact he is a tall. How much more gifting do we have to do with this bloke. Other players haven't been afforded such a luxury
As for Grigg again should have been 1 yr with an option 2 years max, not 3. I scratch my head as to why we give blokes 3 year details when it's obvious that other sides arent' going to be chasing them. But we lock ourselves into contracts that are of no value at trade time because those players aren't of any interest to other clubs, so they aren't going to walk anywhere if no one else wants them. And being shackled with these dud contracts limits our ability to go after decent FAs
I rate Conca, but based on his injury history you have to question the logic behind a long deal.
I also agree with you re your comments about Dimma not playing kids, hence why we don't know if Elton is any good or going to be. Ditto McBean
Just on Hampson being a disaster, it's a pretty big word consider the list I gave you before- it was a miss but so was Post and most of the others.
Hampson was given a 3 year deal when he came to us (the year he had remaining + a further 2 years). He is currently running around in the VFL. He spent the 2nd half of 2014 in the VFL. Outside of being a reasonable tap ruckman he cannot take a mark to save himself and he's not much good at being a resting ruckman up forward because the marking issue plus the fact he isn't a great kick limits his ability to play that role. So based on what we gave up and considering the options available at the same trade period (eg McEvoy & Longer) that we didn't even consider because Hampson was "the man" then I think there is a fair argument to say based on where it currnetly sits it's been a disaster.
When trading players all parties need to agree INCLUDING the player. That's why Hampson got 3 years, you potentially pay overs with the amount you pay a player and also the length of contract. Otherwise why would they leave! Hartley got it wrong no doubt but my point is FJ probably would have too if he had that pick. His record speaks for itself. Drafting is a gamble and so is trading.
The rest of your post is your opinion on contract lengths, which lets be honest you wouldn't know about other than the time frame.
When talking about contract lengths it's a fine line in today's landscape with players able to move around much more easly with FA. Rance is a perfect example. 3 years for a young player that is best 22 at the time of a contrct extension isn't that outrageous. You can sometimes get a bargain if the contract is a bit longer giving you more cash to actually get a FA to your club.
I'll ask you this, would you get rid of FJ today if you could?
I know the answer to Hartley already. We all do.
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From the low down on bigfooty, Benell sounds like bad news, this is not his first offense. People are comparing him to Fevola. I'm not sure were so good with drunks. Were probably better to steer clear of him.
but he can play