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Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on November 19, 2015, 09:58:42 PM

Title: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: one-eyed on November 19, 2015, 09:58:42 PM
Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list? We crunch the numbers

AFL.com.au
19 November 2015


MEMO Adam Treloar: there's little separating Richmond and Collingwood on paper.

Their primary lists ahead of next week's NAB AFL Draft show little separates them when it comes to age.

The Tigers are the ninth oldest team in the competition with an average age of 24.58, while the Magpies are 14th with 24.29.

They're even closer when it comes to average games played – the Tigers are seventh with an average of 78.7 and the Pies ninth with 78.4.

The Tigers have 12 players who were taken in the top 15 of their draft years, and the Pies 10.

They both made plays at the trade table this year that may dictate their progress in coming seasons.

The Tigers filled needs – they added inside midfielder Jacob Townsend (aged 22) from Greater Western Sydney and line-breaking half-back Chris Yarran (24) from Carlton.

After the retirements of Nathan Foley and Daniel Jackson the year before, they bolstered their inside depth by adding Port Adelaide midfielder Andrew Moore (24) as a delisted free agent.

The Pies picked up three and lost three – James Aish (20), Jeremy Howe (25) and Treloar (22) came in for Nathan Freeman (20), Ben Kennedy (21) and Paul Seedsman (23).

Finals appearances in the past two seasons suggest the Tigers are in a better position at the moment.

They have seven players who finished inside the top 100 of this year's Official Player Ratings, compared to the Pies' three – although Scott Pendlebury did rank second overall at the season's end.

But which team will be in a better position when Treloar enters his prime in three to four years?

At nearly 30, ruckman Ivan Maric is Richmond's oldest player. By comparison, the Pies' big men, Jarrod Witts and Brodie Grundy, are 23 and 21.

Richmond also relies on its second-oldest player Troy Chaplin (29) to help marshal the backline, while Brett Deledio is 28 – and it's well known the Tigers struggle when he's not playing well.

The Pies will grow less reliant on their oldest player Dane Swan (31) as Jack Crisp and Taylor Adams (both 22), who finished third and fourth in the best and fairest, continue to emerge.

Travis Cloke (28) and Jack Riewoldt (27) are close in age but there is a gap in experience with 233 games to 180.

The Magpies have Darcy Moore (19) already entrenched in his apprenticeship to be the next forward star, while the Tigers have Liam McBean, a proven VFL goalkicker, who has played two games in three seasons.

Can the Tigers take a big enough forward step while their premiership window is open in the next few years, or will the Magpies' decision to trade away this and next year's first-round draft picks for Treloar pay off?

One thing is certain – the rivalry between Collingwood and Richmond has been given a boost ahead of their round two clash on April 1 next season, with the Magpies firing the opening shot.

AFL.com.au's best 22s for 2016 (AFL Player Ratings in brackets - the lower score is better).

B: Nick Vlastuin (205), Alex Rance (30), Dylan Grimes (359)
B: Marley Williams (130), Nathan Brown (427), Alan Toovey (296)

HB: Chris Yarran (109), Troy Chaplin (161), Bachar Houli (179)
HB: Travis Varcoe (181), Ben Reid (522), Tom Langdon (150)

C: Brandon Ellis (196), Anthony Miles (117), Kamdyn McIntosh (437)
C: Steele Sidebottom (41), Adam Treloar (27), Jack Crisp (170)

HF: Dustin Martin (49), Ty Vickery (300), Shane Edwards (43)
HF: Jeremy Howe (149), Darcy Moore (530), Dane Swan (75)

F: Ben Griffiths (379), Jack Riewoldt (46), Kane Lambert (489)
F: Jamie Elliott (113), Travis Cloke (225), Alex Fasolo (275)

Foll: Ivan Maric (54), Trent Cotchin (73), Brett Deledio (23)

Foll: Brodie Grundy (256), Scott Pendlebury (2), Taylor Adams (223)

I/C: Shaun Grigg (194), Reece Conca (363), Taylor Hunt (377), Ben Lennon (524)

I/C: James Aish (297), Levi Greenwood (206), Jordan De Goey (484), Matt Scharenberg (672)

Richmond overall Player Ratings: 4707. Average: 214

Collingwood overall Player Ratings: 5451. Average: 248

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-11-19/collingwood-v-richmond-who-has-the-better-list-we-crunch-the-numbers
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: one-eyed on November 20, 2015, 01:30:27 AM
Adam Treloar says Collingwood’s list is better than Richmond’s — is he right?

Al Paton
Herald Sun
November 20, 2015


RATING THE LISTS

Treloar might wish he had seen an early draft of the Champion Data 2016 Prospectus before his Falls Creek press conference.

The AFL stats gurus provide a complete rating of every club’s list, and they have given a sneak peak on the Magpies and Tigers.

Collingwood has two players rated elite for their position — Scott Pendlebury and Dane Swan.

The Tigers have five — Alex Rance, Dustin Martin, Brett Deledio, Jack Riewoldt and Bachar Houli.

There were seven “above average” Magpies at the start of last season — Dane Swan, Travis Varcoe, Steele Sidebottom, Jarryd Blair, Jamie Elliott, Paul Seedsman and Marley Williams. Based on 2015 form Swan returns to the elite bracket for 2016 while Varcoe, Sidebottom, Williams and Elliott should hold their spots. Paul Seedsman was traded to Adelaide and Jarryd Blair is touch and go.

Taylor Adams is a certainty to jump into the “above average” category along with former Lion Jack Crisp.

Treloar will also be there and ex-Demon Jeremy Howe might too (he was rated above average 12 months ago), but the jury is out on James Aish, who was rated below average last year but with the potential of a No.7 draft pick.

And the Pies have No.5 pick Jordan de Goey, pick 6 Matt Scharenberg and father-son gun Darcy Moore, who should all be pushing towards elite in the next 2-3 years, plus a 10-year ruckman in Brodie Grundy.

The downside is the loss of No.10 pick Nathan Freeman to St Kilda and No.19 pick Ben Kennedy to Melbourne — and the age of Swan (32 next February) and Travis Cloke (29 in March), who could both be gone when the likes of Treloar, Adams and De Goey reach their prime. Cloke’s powers have faded but replacing him will be top of the list management agenda — the Pies’ leading goalkickers this year were Jamie Elliott (35), Cloke (34) and Alex Fasolo (17) which isn’t a recipe for premiership success.

At Richmond, meanwhile, Martin and Houli jumped into the elite category while Shane Edwards has slipped back to above average.

Nick Vlastuin and Troy Chaplin did enough to stay in the above average category along with Ivan Maric and Trent Cotchin, although the captain’s elimination final performance will haunt him for a while.

Chris Yarran was rated elite at the start of the year but is set for a tumble, although the Tigers will be hoping he plays more like the 2014 Yarran than the 2015 version at Punt Rd.

There aren’t many players dropping from the top bracket, but there aren’t a lot pushing up from below either, with Brandon Ellis (rated average last year) the clear standout. The Tigers need the likes of Reece Conca (average), Ty Vickery (average) plus first-round draft picks Ben Lennon and Corey Ellis to make the jump.


BUCKY’S TAKE

Former Hawthorn recruiter Gary Buckenara put every club’s list under the microscope after the 2015 season. Here’s a quick version of what he said about the Magpies and Tigers.

COLLINGWOOD

Nathan Buckley has a number of quality young players on his list and the sky is the limit for the group next season — finals are a non-negotiable and even challenging for a premiership isn’t out of the question.

It was inexperience that cost them this season, while bad luck with injuries also played a role but as a club internally, they’d still be disappointed.

For mine, the Pies have been disappointing the last couple of years even though they have been in a bit of a development/rejig mode. It’s time for them to start delivering.

I see them being a contender next year — as I said earlier as a minimum should play finals in 2016 — but if not next year in terms of challenging then definitely in 2-3 years the Pies should be knocking on the door of winning a premiership.


Richmond fans can expect to see a lot more of youngster Corey Ellis next season. Picture: Colleen Petch

RICHMOND


The time is now, Richmond. Your premiership window is open.

The fact is this list as it stands, with the addition of Chris Yarran during the trade period, can beat anyone on its day. They are a very dangerous side with a good spread of talent across all lines. It’s consistency and lack of confidence that holds the group back.

What I have learnt by analysing Richmond’s list at the conclusion of 2015 and heading into next year is that the Tigers are definitely in the window and must win a premiership in the next two to three years or they risk missing out and sliding back down the ladder … again.

September action is a non-negotiable for the next three years.


THE VERDICT

Treloar is wrong if he’s talking about right now — the Tigers’ list is well stocked with high-grade talent and ready to challenge for a flag. That’s hardly surprising looking at what happened this year when Richmond won 15 games to Collingwood’s 10, including a 91-point thumping of the Pies in Round 21. Richmond’s main problem is turning that into results in September.

But if Treloar is looking a couple of years into the future, he might have a point.

While Richmond’s core of Cotchin (25), Riewoldt (27) and Martin (24) are all in their prime, there are some concerns at the top end in the form of 29-year-olds Troy Chaplin and Ivan Maric, while Brett Deledio is 28.

The bigger worry is making an impact while the window is open — something the Tigers have conspicuously failed to do in the past three seasons — before being overtaken by the juggernauts of GWS and Gold Coast. And possibly Collingwood.

Sidebottom, Adams, Moore, de Goey, Crisp and Grundy — plus Treloar and Aish — form a group ready to bust open the flag window. And while Swan and Cloke might be in the twilight of their careers, superstar Pendlebury is still only 27 and has just signed a four-year contract.

Interestingly given the state of each club’s list, Collingwood traded away pick 7 in this year’s draft and their first-round pick next year in the Treloar deal — so they are banking on the current squad delivering. While Richmond has pick 12, the Pies don’t get a look in until pick 27 this year and the story will be similar next year.

The first test for Treloar’s theory will be in Round 2 next year when Collingwood and Richmond face off on a Friday night at the MCG.

That game suddenly has a lot more spice, and is it a coincidence it’s on April 1?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/adam-treloar-says-collingwoods-list-is-better-than-richmonds--is-he-right/news-story/0b467356796092a9c327ac2cd040fbc6
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: lamington on November 20, 2015, 11:25:28 AM
I think we're entering similar territory as Hawthorn when they were contenders (and ultimately winning) in 2008

In that GF, they had a 24 year old Brad Sewell who was a jet, a 24 year old Luke Hodge, a 26 year old Sam Mitchell, a 21 year old Lance Franklin who kicked 113 goals that year and a 21 year old Lewis with a 34 year old Shane Crawford to provide a bit of experience and flair.

During the 2016 season our A graders are in a higher age bracket with Cotchin (26 in Apr) Martin (24 Jun) Miles (23 in Feb) Rance (26 for whole season) Riewoldt (27) Deledio (29 in Apr).

This isn't too dissimilar to the 08 Hawthorn team. So the questions for me are, does that make Yarran our Stuart Dew? If we don't win a premiereship with Lids on the team, is that the end of the premiership window because from a psychological sense, the more you stumble at the same hurdle the harder it gets to over come (St. Kilda between 09-11)
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on November 20, 2015, 11:40:51 AM
I think we're entering similar territory as Hawthorn when they were contenders (and ultimately winning) in 2008

In that GF, they had a 24 year old Brad Sewell who was a jet, a 24 year old Luke Hodge, a 26 year old Sam Mitchell, a 21 year old Lance Franklin who kicked 113 goals that year and a 21 year old Lewis with a 34 year old Shane Crawford to provide a bit of experience and flair.

During the 2016 season our A graders are in a higher age bracket with Cotchin (26 in Apr) Martin (24 Jun) Miles (23 in Feb) Rance (26 for whole season) Riewoldt (27) Deledio (29 in Apr).

This isn't too dissimilar to the 08 Hawthorn team. So the questions for me are, does that make Yarran our Stuart Dew? If we don't win a premiereship with Lids on the team, is that the end of the premiership window because from a psychological sense, the more you stumble at the same hurdle the harder it gets to over come (St. Kilda between 09-11)
Just need a 21 year old Lance Franklin and we're set! ;D
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on November 20, 2015, 07:57:12 PM
McBean  :shh
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on November 20, 2015, 08:38:11 PM
McBean  :shh
I wish. Somehow I think he isn't quite the same player.....
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: big tone on November 20, 2015, 08:47:49 PM
I think they have done a great job over the last 3 or 4 years to stockpile young talent while offloading some of their more experienced players for one reason or another, that had taken them as far as they could.
They have been brave in doing this and Buckley has taken a hit over it. It shows me he is willing to make tough decisions that aren't always going to be popular ones. Could we say the same about Hardwick?
But it's one thing to draft potentially good kids but it's another for them to become good/great players. It's a risk they took and IMO it will pay off.

Is their list better than ours?
Not at the moment obviously as we have played finals the last 3 years and they haven't but things can change pretty quickly and we had better start getting more brave with our trading or we could get overtaken really quickly.
We also need to start playing our young talent and moving on the Grigg's, Houli's, Hunt's and Chaplin's of the club. They have taken us as far as they are going to.

It's not to say I don't hate them though but Essendon clearly have my most hated club at the minute with North a close second.
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on November 20, 2015, 09:03:03 PM
If Treloar and Aish came to Richmond, we clearly would have had the better list. That's the strange thing about the comments from Treloar. He and Aish weren't there when he was making his decision.....
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Stalin on November 20, 2015, 09:23:27 PM
I think we're entering similar territory as Hawthorn when they were contenders (and ultimately winning) in 2008

In that GF, they had a 24 year old Brad Sewell who was a jet, a 24 year old Luke Hodge, a 26 year old Sam Mitchell, a 21 year old Lance Franklin who kicked 113 goals that year and a 21 year old Lewis with a 34 year old Shane Crawford to provide a bit of experience and flair.

During the 2016 season our A graders are in a higher age bracket with Cotchin (26 in Apr) Martin (24 Jun) Miles (23 in Feb) Rance (26 for whole season) Riewoldt (27) Deledio (29 in Apr).

This isn't too dissimilar to the 08 Hawthorn team. So the questions for me are, does that make Yarran our Stuart Dew? If we don't win a premiereship with Lids on the team, is that the end of the premiership window because from a psychological sense, the more you stumble at the same hurdle the harder it gets to over come (St. Kilda between 09-11)
Just need a 21 year old Lance Franklin and we're set! ;D

darcy moore ?
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Stalin on November 20, 2015, 09:24:02 PM
I think they have done a great job over the last 3 or 4 years to stockpile young talent while offloading some of their more experienced players for one reason or another, that had taken them as far as they could.
They have been brave in doing this and Buckley has taken a hit over it. It shows me he is willing to make tough decisions that aren't always going to be popular ones. Could we say the same about Hardwick?
But it's one thing to draft potentially good kids but it's another for them to become good/great players. It's a risk they took and IMO it will pay off.

Is their list better than ours?
Not at the moment obviously as we have played finals the last 3 years and they haven't but things can change pretty quickly and we had better start getting more brave with our trading or we could get overtaken really quickly.
We also need to start playing our young talent and moving on the Grigg's, Houli's, Hunt's and Chaplin's of the club. They have taken us as far as they are going to.

It's not to say I don't hate them though but Essendon clearly have my most hated club at the minute with North a close second.

well said mate  :clapping
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Diocletian on November 20, 2015, 09:27:10 PM


Just need a 21 year old Lance Franklin and we're set! ;D

darcy moore ?

Spencer White for the rookie list. :shh
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on November 20, 2015, 09:28:00 PM
I think they have done a great job over the last 3 or 4 years to stockpile young talent while offloading some of their more experienced players for one reason or another, that had taken them as far as they could.
They have been brave in doing this and Buckley has taken a hit over it. It shows me he is willing to make tough decisions that aren't always going to be popular ones. Could we say the same about Hardwick?
But it's one thing to draft potentially good kids but it's another for them to become good/great players. It's a risk they took and IMO it will pay off.

Is their list better than ours?
Not at the moment obviously as we have played finals the last 3 years and they haven't but things can change pretty quickly and we had better start getting more brave with our trading or we could get overtaken really quickly.
We also need to start playing our young talent and moving on the Grigg's, Houli's, Hunt's and Chaplin's of the club. They have taken us as far as they are going to.

It's not to say I don't hate them though but Essendon clearly have my most hated club at the minute with North a close second.

well said mate  :clapping
Let me guess, your favourite bit was moving on Grigg and Chaplin. Am I right? :snidegrin
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Stalin on November 20, 2015, 09:29:30 PM
I think they have done a great job over the last 3 or 4 years to stockpile young talent while offloading some of their more experienced players for one reason or another, that had taken them as far as they could.
They have been brave in doing this and Buckley has taken a hit over it. It shows me he is willing to make tough decisions that aren't always going to be popular ones. Could we say the same about Hardwick?
But it's one thing to draft potentially good kids but it's another for them to become good/great players. It's a risk they took and IMO it will pay off.

Is their list better than ours?
Not at the moment obviously as we have played finals the last 3 years and they haven't but things can change pretty quickly and we had better start getting more brave with our trading or we could get overtaken really quickly.
We also need to start playing our young talent and moving on the Grigg's, Houli's, Hunt's and Chaplin's of the club. They have taken us as far as they are going to.

It's not to say I don't hate them though but Essendon clearly have my most hated club at the minute with North a close second.

well said mate  :clapping
Let me guess, your favourite bit was moving on Grigg and Chaplin. Am I right? :snidegrin

Collingwood list management under Buckley has been excellent for mine - laugh it up chuckles

i didnt even read the 2nd paragraph. was nodding my head during the first. upon further inspection a truly grand post

BT for president  :clapping
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: big tone on November 20, 2015, 10:10:23 PM
If Treloar and Aish came to Richmond, we clearly would have had the better list. That's the strange thing about the comments from Treloar. He and Aish weren't there when he was making his decision.....
I'm not really fused about Aish. I haven't really seen much to tell me he will be anymore than "just" a player. No real weapons IMO.
And I know this will get some reaction but I think Treloar is a good player but not great. And I don't think he will ever get to that. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: lamington on November 21, 2015, 12:26:57 AM
If Treloar and Aish came to Richmond, we clearly would have had the better list. That's the strange thing about the comments from Treloar. He and Aish weren't there when he was making his decision.....
I'm not really fused about Aish. I haven't really seen much to tell me he will be anymore than "just" a player. No real weapons IMO.
And I know this will get some reaction but I think Treloar is a good player but not great. And I don't think he will ever get to that. Just my opinion.

I see where you're coming from there but I think the danger lies in what happens to a 'good but not great' player in Treloar when he is also in the company of Taylor Adams, Pendlebury, sidebottom, swan? The environment could make him an absolute beast.

Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Stalin on November 21, 2015, 10:14:10 AM
dgoey, moore, aish

 :P
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: bojangles17 on November 21, 2015, 10:22:35 AM
a lot of if,  buts and maybes rating the pies list, there's just as much chance those remaining go the same way as fizzers in Kennedy, Freeman and sharenburg that haven't fired a shot. Aish :lol

Meanwhile back at Tigerland we have an establishment of AA calibre talent all signed to long term deals , no ifs , buts or maybe s , they're superstars

read and weep collingwood :shh
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Francois Jackson on November 21, 2015, 10:47:07 AM
I think they have done a great job over the last 3 or 4 years to stockpile young talent while offloading some of their more experienced players for one reason or another, that had taken them as far as they could.
They have been brave in doing this and Buckley has taken a hit over it. It shows me he is willing to make tough decisions that aren't always going to be popular ones. Could we say the same about Hardwick?
But it's one thing to draft potentially good kids but it's another for them to become good/great players. It's a risk they took and IMO it will pay off.

Is their list better than ours?
Not at the moment obviously as we have played finals the last 3 years and they haven't but things can change pretty quickly and we had better start getting more brave with our trading or we could get overtaken really quickly.
We also need to start playing our young talent and moving on the Grigg's, Houli's, Hunt's and Chaplin's of the club. They have taken us as far as they are going to.

It's not to say I don't hate them though but Essendon clearly have my most hated club at the minute with North a close second.

well said mate  :clapping

couldnt agree more.

Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Stalin on November 21, 2015, 07:17:25 PM
would chaplin and griggy get a game for collingwood?

if not, why are they stalwarts in the hardwick flag winning plan?
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on November 23, 2015, 03:28:19 PM
Scharenberg does an ACL. Is this a timely reminder about the risks of picking up injury prone players or is it just plain bad luck for the kid and Collingwood?
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-11-23/young-pie-scharenberg-requires-another-knee-reconstruction
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Stalin on November 23, 2015, 03:34:02 PM
acl is pretty bad luck ...
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Diocletian on November 23, 2015, 04:12:14 PM
Sympathies to the player - suck shyte to the club....
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Dougeytherichmondfan on March 18, 2016, 12:25:25 PM
Treloar tweaked his groin at training this morning, on SEN and Rob Waters just tweeted this.

Wouldn't have happened at Richmond  :whistle :whistle

https://twitter.com/RobWaters10?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Diocletian on March 18, 2016, 01:57:07 PM
Suck shyte.
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: 🏅Dooks on March 18, 2016, 07:29:15 PM
Karma tool cram it and jam it. That's how it goes  :gotigers
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: TigerMonk on March 21, 2016, 10:10:12 AM
Paper is Paper

Smashing them on the MCG is the only proof to me. Too much talk.
Flex the muscle & just smash them. GET IT DONE no excuses

 :gotigers
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: the claw on March 21, 2016, 07:10:07 PM
Collingwood.
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Eat_em_Alive on March 21, 2016, 07:27:42 PM
Collingwood.

yep I agree
Also, they have been able to offload average players for quality pick or players
we fail to offload anything let alone build up a rep for player then offload
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Stalin on March 21, 2016, 07:37:46 PM
Collingwood.

yep I agree
Also, they have been able to offload average players for quality pick or players
we fail to offload anything let alone build up a rep for player then offload

They did a full rebuild

We did a half assed money ball list blocker rebuild
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Willy on March 21, 2016, 07:45:14 PM
Not sure I buy the Collingwood hype. Their midfield is nice but to me they look very vulnerable or at least unproven at the ends of the ground.
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Stalin on March 21, 2016, 07:48:26 PM
Not sure I buy the Collingwood hype. Their midfield is nice but to me they look very vulnerable or at least unproven at the ends of the ground.

If Reid fit stays for he's a gun

Moore is one the outstanding league KPF

In 2-3 years they look pretty good
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Dougeytherichmondfan on March 21, 2016, 08:11:29 PM
Not sure I buy the Collingwood hype. Their midfield is nice but to me they look very vulnerable or at least unproven at the ends of the ground.

If Reid fit stays for he's a gun

Moore is one the outstanding league KPF

In 2-3 years they look pretty good
I keep making the point that if their investments from last TP dont come through they're in big trouble. They have practically completely traded themselves out of this years draft and next. Imagine if they finish in the bottom third of the ladder at the end of this year and dont have their first 2 round picks??!!!
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: the claw on March 21, 2016, 09:50:27 PM
Not sure I buy the Collingwood hype. Their midfield is nice but to me they look very vulnerable or at least unproven at the ends of the ground.
For sure they lack depth with kpps but as a collective i think they are better off than us.

Do they have plenty of work to do of course, but imo they dont drop away like we do in each area. we may have the best kpd or the best kpf we may even have an extra quality mid  :o but their b and c graders in all areas  crap all over ours.

Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: the claw on March 21, 2016, 09:56:24 PM
Not sure I buy the Collingwood hype. Their midfield is nice but to me they look very vulnerable or at least unproven at the ends of the ground.

If Reid fit stays for he's a gun

Moore is one the outstanding league KPF

In 2-3 years they look pretty good
Cloke Reid and Moore it is formidable if they are all fit and in form.Thing is i reckon Reid will play chb because Gault has done more than enough to warrant an opportunity.I think Brodie Grundy will spend a fair bit of time fwd this year as well, and why not he was formidable as a junior when fwd. they can afford to do this because unlike us they have some pretty imposing ruckmen around 210cm  who have slowly been developing. Witts and Cox will give good contests at the least.
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Willy on March 21, 2016, 10:57:57 PM
Not sure I buy the Collingwood hype. Their midfield is nice but to me they look very vulnerable or at least unproven at the ends of the ground.

If Reid fit stays for he's a gun

Moore is one the outstanding league KPF

In 2-3 years they look pretty good
Cloke Reid and Moore it is formidable if they are all fit and in form.Thing is i reckon Reid will play chb because Gault has done more than enough to warrant an opportunity.I think Brodie Grundy will spend a fair bit of time fwd this year as well, and why not he was formidable as a junior when fwd. they can afford to do this because unlike us they have some pretty imposing ruckmen around 210cm  who have slowly been developing. Witts and Cox will give good contests at the least.

Meh. A lot of "ifs" in there for mine.

You are quite generous when assessing opposition players.
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on March 22, 2016, 07:26:12 AM
Not sure I buy the Collingwood hype. Their midfield is nice but to me they look very vulnerable or at least unproven at the ends of the ground.

If Reid fit stays for he's a gun

Moore is one the outstanding league KPF

In 2-3 years they look pretty good
Cloke Reid and Moore it is formidable if they are all fit and in form.Thing is i reckon Reid will play chb because Gault has done more than enough to warrant an opportunity.I think Brodie Grundy will spend a fair bit of time fwd this year as well, and why not he was formidable as a junior when fwd. they can afford to do this because unlike us they have some pretty imposing ruckmen around 210cm  who have slowly been developing. Witts and Cox will give good contests at the least.

If Witts and Cox wore yellow & black YOUD be bagging the clubs recruiting.
That said, I think the Pies will overtake us this year and possibly finish Top 4
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: mightytiges on March 30, 2017, 11:45:04 PM
Bump.

12 months is a long time in footy, eh Adam!  :wallywink
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: mat073 on March 30, 2017, 11:52:02 PM
Bump.

12 months is a long time in footy, eh Adam!  :wallywink

It would still be nice to have him in our team though.  Gun player.
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: mightytiges on March 31, 2017, 12:13:20 AM
Bump.

12 months is a long time in footy, eh Adam!  :wallywink

It would still be nice to have him in our team though.  Gun player.
True, he's a gun. But the Pies are going nowhere when they recruit the likes of Wells & Mayne. Treloar also cost Collingwood both their 2015 & 2016 first round picks. Their onfield performance since Bucks took over six years ago has continually gone backwards year on year.
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Willy on March 31, 2017, 12:19:37 AM
Bump.

12 months is a long time in footy, eh Adam!  :wallywink

It would still be nice to have him in our team though.  Gun player.
True, he's a gun. But the Pies are going nowhere when they recruit the likes of Wells & Mayne. Treloar also cost Collingwood both their 2015 & 2016 first round picks. Their onfield performance since Bucks took over six years ago has continually gone backwards year on year.

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Gracie on March 31, 2017, 12:50:28 AM
Bump.

12 months is a long time in footy, eh Adam!  :wallywink

It would still be nice to have him in our team though.  Gun player.
True, he's a gun. But the Pies are going nowhere when they recruit the likes of Wells & Mayne. Treloar also cost Collingwood both their 2015 & 2016 first round picks. Their onfield performance since Bucks took over six years ago has continually gone backwards year on year.

And the problem is?
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: one-eyed on March 20, 2018, 05:51:45 AM
TRIPLE premiership Lion Jonathan Brown donned his walking shoes over the summer and watched several clubs train across Melbourne’s sporting precinct.

And when he got to the Holden Centre, he didn’t like what he saw.

Brown said he was left stunned earlier this year after watching a Collingwood pre-season training session where he sensed a lack of urgency.

“I get my benchmark — I look at Richmond … they train with intensity, they train with an urgency of a premiership team.

“I go down the road and watch Collingwood — there’s a lethargy. There’s a lack of urgency, a lack of intensity … blokes dawdling between drills.”

“The main thing for Collingwood is their kicking inside 50. They murdered the football last year — I would not like to be a forward playing for Collingwood at the moment. What do they at training? They do exactly the same thing,” Brown said.

“I’ve looked at the premiership team the day before and I’ve come to look at a very mediocre side the next day and you know what? There’s no wonder why one team won the premiership and one team was a mediocre team that didn’t play finals. That’s the difference between Richmond and Collingwood.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/jonathan-browns-concern-for-magpies-after-watching-training-session-that-lacked-urgency/news-story/18a7974e1cef5ad8dd986461f7dafc8a
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: WilliamPowell on March 20, 2018, 07:55:39 AM
OUCH!!!

 :rollin

:lol

:jump
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: mat073 on March 20, 2018, 10:42:56 AM
Johno goes whacky whack .
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: wayne on March 20, 2018, 11:02:16 AM
Pendles said that when Browny watched them they were having a light session   :lol
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: JP Tiger on March 20, 2018, 11:44:46 AM
Pendles said that when Browny watched them they were having a light session   :lol
Which was Pendles' way of saying they were on the light beers that day ...   
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: mightytiges on March 25, 2018, 02:13:21 AM
Pendles said that when Browny watched them they were having a light session   :lol
The Pies must have had another light session last night  :lol.

Adam "Pies have the better list" Treloar with a DE of just 40%  :wallywink.
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Knighter on March 25, 2018, 09:42:55 AM
The greatest piece of luck in last 30yrs was Treloar picking the Scum.   
Serves them right after they pinched Cloke and Raines
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Rampsation on March 25, 2018, 10:12:07 AM
the pies are years away from success... by my reckoning about 50
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Diocletian on March 25, 2018, 12:16:36 PM
The greatest piece of luck in last 30yrs was Treloar picking the Scum.   
Serves them right after they pinched Cloke and Raines

That and Fathead's crush on Buckley and  his "succession plan".... :shh
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: Dougeytherichmondfan on March 25, 2018, 02:31:41 PM
The greatest piece of luck in last 30yrs was Treloar picking the Scum.   
Serves them right after they pinched Cloke and Raines
Considering we got Rioli, Prestia, Caddy and Graham for what we would have had to pay for Treloar, you'd have to say we probably did okay  :rollin
Title: Re: Richmond v Collingwood: Who has the better list?
Post by: wayne on March 25, 2018, 09:07:36 PM
The greatest piece of luck in last 30yrs was Treloar picking the Scum.   
Serves them right after they pinched Cloke and Raines

And getting Balmey from them