One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on March 04, 2016, 11:51:09 PM
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Richmond captaincy: It doesn’t matter who leads the Tigers as long as they can inspire and excite, writes Jon Ralph
Jon Ralph
Herald Sun
March 5, 2016
Trent Cotchin: Jack Riewoldt is 'growing as a leader'
JACK Riewoldt should captain Richmond.
If you say it enough times the football public begins to accept it as fact.
The shock waves from Richmond’s catastrophic finals exit against North Melbourne are being felt in all areas, none more so than at the very top.
Should Damien Hardwick get a new contract without a finals win, and why did the Tigers miss out on Adam Treloar?
Legitimate questions without easy answers.
But the question that has swirled around Punt Rd with real persistence is who should actually captain the club.
Colleague Mark Robinson framed the debate like this in October, arguing Richmond “must consider replacing Trent Cotchin as captain”.
He put up Jack Riewoldt as the likely replacement, with footy analyst and former Tigers assistant David King even stronger on Saturday.
As Jack Riewoldt put on a clinic — against no less than Hawthorn finals hero James Frawley — King was adamant the wrong man was in the job.
“He could captain Richmond,” said Fox Footy’s King, who has queried Cotchin’s leadership for 18 months now.
“In my eyes he’s a better leader than Cotchin. He hasn’t stopped working.
“And when a leader does this in a pre-season game, it sets the standards for players around him.”
All of it is great fodder for angry Tigers fans mulling another wasted season, especially given Cotchin clearly is not the finished product as skipper.
And yet all of it ignores one absolutely critical fact.
When the Tigers quietly released their five-man leadership group in January, for the third year running Riewoldt was not in it.
So when Richmond’s own players and coaches worked on the process to judge their best candidates, Riewoldt wasn’t in the picture.
Instead star defender Alex Rance and midfielder Shane Edwards were elevated into a group that also contains Cotchin, Brett Deledio and Ivan Maric.
If Cotchin’s flaws were seen as fatal it would be smooth mover Deledio or bull-at-a-gate Rance or heart-and-soul ruckman Maric more likely to step up.
The point is not to criticise Riewoldt, whose finest hour might have been in that final with four goals straight when he just had to stand up and fight.
It is to say the only way Richmond will achieve anything is if it assembles a core group of eight to ten elite leaders, rather than bickers about who leads that group.
It doesn’t matter if Cotchin or Riewoldt lead Richmond as long as both inspire and excite and collectively haul their teammates to greatness.
At Hawthorn Sam Mitchell was effectively deposed as captain soon after a premiership win, Jordan Lewis might never be captain, and Josh Gibson and Jarryd Roughead certainly won’t be.
And yet in every corner of the ground Hawthorn has them as on-field coaches, providing leadership, guidance, tactical nous and inspiration through their play.
Only when Richmond’s leaders across the ground instantly problem-solve and react to potential crisis will finals catastrophes turn into breakthrough wins.
Cotchin nine-possession game in that final was the greatest stinker of his career.
Yet should he have won all 34 of the contested possessions the Tigers were beaten by, as Edwards (eight touches), Brandon Ellis (10), Deledio (17) and a host of Richmond players were MIA?
King, who served under one of the great leaders in Wayne Carey, told the Herald Sun yesterday he didn’t care that Riewoldt was outside the 2016 leadership group.
“I am not worried about the leadership group, that’s a nonsense. I see Jack’s performance in big games, that’s what leadership is, and from the minute one game finishes to the next game starts, Jack is as good as anyone else.
“He can make the game fun, get around guys, be popular, and still challenge players.
“He is a guy that can gather the group. I don’t find Trent is a gatherer of men. He is probably still Richmond’s best player, but there has doesn’t have to be blood attached — the transition can be smooth as well as it’s handled well by Jack and Cotch.”
The hope is that recruits Jacob Townsend and Andrew Moore can hand Cotchin the inside assistance Shane Tuck and Daniel Jackson did in 2012, a season that might eventually see him become a Brownlow Medallist.
Since that year he has gradually eased from AFL golden child to the verge of whipping boy, much of it for his short-chipping game.
The AFL is all about handling the heat — not just in September but every single year when you must prove why you deserve your title all over again.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/richmond-captaincy-it-doesnt-matter-who-leads-the-tigers-as-long-as-they-can-inspire-and-excite-writes-jon-ralph/news-story/63e920e01a5ac5a4d6fd24a89690c42b
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Unusually good piece for Ralph.....
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Actually it's a really interesting topic to be honest
I thought the piece Robbo wrote last year when he suggested that the RFC should consider a change was good one as well.
Unfortunately, the actually discussion point got lost in either people's disdain for Robbo or blinded by some ideal that a any sort of discussion peice is a blatant whacl at the RFC.
But as I said the actually topic is a really ijterestong one. Taking it further I've always thought this idea that really good players make great captains is a fascinating discussion
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I think that any captain should be able to lift to another level come finals otherwise it's just faux leadership.
This was highlighted in the outstanding mini series Band of Brothers. For two years Captain Herbert Sobel (David Schwimmer) was an extremely hard task master at camp Toccoa but all knew he went missing when it came to the tactical nouse of real life combat.
In the heat battle and amongst the do or die reality of war it was the real leaders that stood up when it counted, no more so than Captain Richard Winters (Damien Lewis).
IMHO, unless Cotchin can rise to the occasion in the cut and thrust of finals he looses all credibility as a leader as do anyone else in that leadership group.
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IMHO, unless Cotchin can rise to the occasion in the cut and thrust of finals he looses all credibility as a leader as do anyone else in that leadership group.
Cotchin already has lost credibility. 9 stuffing possessions my friends. 9.
And then he comes out and apologised after the game - seriously, what an insult. Robs loyal members of their dreams and hopes. FO and hand the captaincy over.
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Kicked it 22 times
22
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Ok so I will stick up for Cotch.
22 years old when appointed captain after only five seasons...Imagine if Vlastuin was made captain next year.
Still only relatively young at 25 - is it fair to compare him to the likes of Hodge and Mitchell ?
Yes he had a stinker in the EF ....one game does not make a career. Jack Riewoldt had a stinker in the Carlton EF.
On reflection I wonder if our expectations of Cotch are unrealistic after his fine 2012 season. Many tiger fans assumed ( myself included) we could have the next Garry Abblet Jnr on our hands . While still remaining a fine player , Cotch may never reach the heights of GAJ .
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Kicked it 22 times
22
What, kicked the tape off his boot in the change rooms after the game?
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Ok so I will stick up for Cotch.
22 years old when appointed captain after only five seasons...Imagine if Vlastuin was made captain next year.
Still only relatively young at 25 - is it fair to compare him to the likes of Hodge and Mitchell ?
Yes he had a stinker in the EF ....one game does not make a career. Jack Riewoldt had a stinker in the Carlton EF.
On reflection I wonder if our expectations of Cotch are unrealistic after his fine 2012 season. Many tiger fans assumed ( myself included) we could have the next Garry Abblet Jnr on our hands . While still remaining a fine player , Cotch may never reach the heights of GAJ .
I'm not asking him to be the next Gary Ablett Jnr or senior or how bloody old he is. All I'm asking is that he bloody well perform in finals. As important it is for all players but there is NO excuses if your captain of the club, he must find a way, if he can't then hand the captaincy in and let someone else have it that can perform ie. Rance.
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Ok so I will stick up for Cotch.
22 years old when appointed captain after only five seasons...Imagine if Vlastuin was made captain next year.
Still only relatively young at 25 - is it fair to compare him to the likes of Hodge and Mitchell ?
Yes he had a stinker in the EF ....one game does not make a career. Jack Riewoldt had a stinker in the Carlton EF.
On reflection I wonder if our expectations of Cotch are unrealistic after his fine 2012 season. Many tiger fans assumed ( myself included) we could have the next Garry Abblet Jnr on our hands . While still remaining a fine player , Cotch may never reach the heights of GAJ .
I'm not asking him to be the next Gary Ablett Jnr or senior or how bloody old he is. All I'm asking is that he bloody well perform in finals. As important it is for all players but there is NO excuses if your captain of the club, he must find a way, if he can't then hand the captaincy in and let someone else have it that can perform ie. Rance.
There's not one single Richmond player that has performed well in all 3 EFs .
Cotch was OK in the first one - stunk the joint up in the last.
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So what does this say of Newman's captaincy
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One more time for those with selective memories...
Players who've stood up when it most counted in Finals:
2013: Cotchin, Maric, Vlastuin
2014: N/A
2015: Miles, Rance, Riewoldt.
Summarry: Across three finals only six Richmond players have stood up - Cotchin is one of those players.
...and for those of you playing at home - some "leaders" and names that still haven't: Deledio, Martin, Newman, Edwards, Chaplin.
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One more time for those with selective memories...
Players who've stood up when it most counted in Finals:
2013: Cotchin, Maric, Vlastuin
2014: N/A
2015: Miles, Rance, Riewoldt.
Summarry: Across three finals only six Richmond players have stood up - Cotchin is one of those players.
...and for those of you playing at home - some "leaders" and names that still haven't: Deledio, Martin, Newman, Edwards, Chaplin.
Good point. Deledio and Martin have really let us down and I've been incredibly disappointed in them for it, particularly Lids who is more of the 'elder statesman' and is considered elite'. He should have done more. Martin is an absolutely dynamo but also went completely missing.
Personally I thought Jack was solid in the 2014 EF - not good or great but could at least hold his head up. He was clearly injured in the 2013 EF and shouldn't have been playing, or at least should have been plonked in the goalsquare not used up the ground to open up the F50 for Vickery.
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Martin from memory was one of our best in the first half in 2013.
Deledio was our only winner against port in 2014
But yes point taken not many that have stood up
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There's been some respectable performances , little more than that , no ones had a day out which plenty are capable of , that's what we ve missed
If jarrod Waite can play the game of his life in a final what's wrong with our blokes ::)
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indeed
bachelor should have grown a foot
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Martin from memory was one of our best in the first half in 2013.
Deledio was our only winner against port in 2014
But yes point taken not many that have stood up
Martin was good when we were all over Carlton...when they turned the tables, he was nowhere to be seen.
Deledio was good against Port after the horse had bolted and the match was lost, was poor in the first half, like everyone else.
I don't regard either effort as standing up in a final when it most mattered.
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Was lids playing forward?
It's not that easy to impact the game
When the coach plays you forward and te ball lives in the other side of the ground
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Pretty sure they sent him to the centre square after the first -few Port goals...either way it's hardly relevant in the modern game, not like he was chained to the goalpost -look at how Jack is everywhere these days. As an onfield leader and elite senior player it's his responibilty to get involved and try and influence things.
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There's been some respectable performances. But mostly poor performances. If you disagree you simply respect poor performances.
The worse thing about the Cotchin 9 is he had the hindsight of 2 failed finals including a toss he threw away, but didn't turn up (and didn't turn up as captain).
Yeah, he might have tried against Carlton in the end but that counts for nothing the following two years. Especially as captain.
Anyway I'm going to let his performances do the talking from now on.
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Pretty sure they sent him to the centre square after the first -few Port goals...either way it's hardly relevant in the modern game, not like he was chained to the goalpost -look at how Jack is everywhere these days. As an onfield leader and elite senior player it's his responibilty to get involved and try and influence things.
Meh. We could have Lockett Ablett snr Carey forward
Wouldn't hav made much difference if the balls not going there
In the modern game the full back sits 80 meters out from goal