One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on April 04, 2016, 11:00:34 PM
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Tigers players take full responsibility for defeat
Jake Niall
The Age
5 April 2016
RICHMOND players have taken responsibility and pinpointed the failings in the final minutes that saw them blow a seemingly certain victory against Collingwood.
In the team review of the Round 2 loss on Monday, players were quick to acknowledge the actions and inactions which had enabled Collingwood to kick the last three goals, including two within the final 106 seconds on Friday night.
Sources said the coaches, who had reviewed the Collingwood game — the usual practice — before the team meeting, did not need to highlight what had gone awry to the players, who were well aware of the specific problems in those frenetic final minutes, in which Alex Fasolo booted two goals then Brodie Grundy booted the match-winner with just four seconds left on the clock.
It is understood there was no uncertainty from the players about what should have been done and the feeling is that they had been practised icing the game in this kind of situation — as they did against Carlton only eight days earlier.
One of the failings identified by players and coaches in those last few minutes was that kicks had not been directed to the “spare” player, which the Tigers had in defence. Kamdyn McIntosh and Alex Rance both kicked long to where Collingwood out-numbered the Tigers, rather than using the spare player as a shorter target and eating up the clock. McIntosh could have kicked to Bachar Houli, who was spare at that time.
The view was that one of the taller forwards should have followed Grundy down the field, too, while his rucking opponent, Shaun Hampson, was defending the goal line. There were a number of other mistakes, too, that the Tigers identified.
Coach Damien Hardwick said after the game that the Tigers lost due to “unintelligent” football towards the end of the game.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/richmond-players-take-full-responsibility-for-round-2-loss-to-collingwood-in-monday-review-meeting/news-story/39a7a62868d6a40d1cece5497d6ecb73
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Sign of a poor team when they continually identify their failings but then repeat the same errors when under pressure. To me it says we dont have the class across the ground to cope with such situations nor the leadership. Again we need to rectify the source of these issues rather than treating the symptoms.
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To me it speaks mostly about the poor preparation year in, year out.
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Heard it all before. PR bullpoot
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The only redeeming thing is that they have a whole season ahead to walk the walk.......
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The only redeeming thing is that they have a whole season ahead to walk the walk.......
yeah like they did the previous ones where they were bent over. Wake up! These blokes will never learn. Its part of their make up now.
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2012 was the year we lost a number of close games after being in winning positions.....disappointing , but a developing team so benefit of the doubt.
2013 , we lose to Freo at Subiaco because we cant defend for 1 minute.
2014 , win a number of close games - are we finally playing smart "mature " footy ?
2015 , again we lose to Fremantle because of 1 simple brain implosion.
2016 , Biggest choke in recent memory ....making pathetic mistakes that cost us 4 valuable points. Everyone asking again who are our leaders on the field. Making the same dumb errors as 2012.
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All any team has to do to beat RIchmond is apply pressure.
Even better if it's during a pressure part of the match as well.
Step right up _ watch them come second, time after time !
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The only redeeming thing is that they have a whole season ahead to walk the walk.......
yeah like they did the previous ones where they were bent over. Wake up! These blokes will never learn. Its part of their make up now.
I never said I was confident that they can turn it around. There is a lot of talk coming from the playing group. FFS they should not need the coaches telling them what to do in those situations. They should have learnt this in all those team meetings and coaching sessions at Punt road.
They continue to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory. The only way they can prove that this will not happen again to them is by the on field results.
You are indicating that this is impossible for the current playing group and maybe you're right. As a supporter though I try to give them at least a small chance to prove themselves or else I may as well not go to games or support the club at all.
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To me it speaks mostly about the poor preparation year in, year out.
Agree
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The view was that one of the taller forwards should have followed Grundy down the field, too, while his rucking opponent, Shaun Hampson, was defending the goal line. There were a number of other mistakes, too, that the Tigers identified.
That's all well and good but WTF was Hampson doing? He was in neither manning up Grundy or protecting the goal line
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And all Houli has to do was jump forward and hold his hands up, the ball would not have cleared him.
Instead Houli jumps up and pulls his hands down allowing the ball a free path to goal.
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The problem with taking responsibility is being then made accountable for it.
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And all Houli has to do was jump forward and hold his hands up, the ball would not have cleared him.
Instead Houli jumps up and pulls his hands down allowing the ball a free path to goal.
that sounds like match fixing?
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All 22 Tigers to blame for loss to Pies: Lambert
AFL.com.au
5 April 2016
RICHMOND'S senior players are not solely to blame for Friday night's meltdown against Collingwood and all 22 should share responsibility for the loss, according to forward Kane Lambert.
The Tigers have come under fierce scrutiny for letting a 17-point lead slip deep in the fourth quarter of their round two clash, going down after conceding a goal with just four seconds remaining.
Captain Trent Cotchin has borne the brunt of the criticism, along with senior player Ty Vickery, who chose to play on at a crucial stage of the game rather than soaking up time.
But Lambert said it was not right to single out the senior group, and the entire team should have been better in executing the coaches' plan in the dying minutes.
"All 22 take responsibility. It's not one or two, it's all 22," Lambert said.
"We just failed to execute when it mattered. It was poor decisions and our execution.
"We've got to take action as players, whether it's sending a number behind the ball or making it a more contested style of game to keep the ball in close.
"We've got to make decisions at times … I'm sure if we're in that position again we'll learn from this."
On the criticism of Cotchin, who has also been defended by Hawthorn counterpart Luke Hodge, Lambert said: "I'm extremely comfortable having Trent as my captain".
"Ever since I walked into the club last year, Trent's impressed me with the way he goes about his footy and the way he leads this footy club," he said.
Richmond leads the AFL since 2010 for losing a lead in the final three minutes, squandering five matches in that period.
Lambert said the Tigers had been put through "a refresher" on their game style for late in games when they hold a manageable lead.
"We trained this all summer and unfortunately we failed to execute," he said.
"It's out of the coaches' hands at that time of the game and as players we take responsibility.
"We should have been better in that last five minutes."
On his own form, Lambert was pleased with the impact his growing fitness base and increased size had had in the opening two rounds.
The 24-year-old, who arrived at the Tigers as a mature-age VFL recruit, has been particularly impressive late in games and he admitted he was a fan of the new interchange cap "to some degree".
"With the rotations being capped at 90 we've got to find a way to stay on the ground longer and be more efficient," he said.
"If that can be late in games and I can use it to my advantage then I'm happy with that."
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-05/all-22-tigers-to-blame-for-loss-to-pies-lambert
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Tigers will learn from Pies loss: Lambert
Herald-Sun
6 April 2016
RICHMOND has been put through a “refresher” course on exactly what to do late in tight games after squandering a 17-point lead in Friday night’s last-minute one-point loss to the Magpies.
Tiger David Astbury said after the defeat he was “not really sure what the coaches really wanted in the last few minutes” of the match, where Collingwood fought back before ruckman Brodie Grundy booted a goal in the final seconds to secure victory.
Richmond had failed to control possession in the dying minutes despite holding a three-goal lead and players including Alex Rance and Ty Vickery were criticised for poor decision making with the footy.
Forward Kane Lambert said Richmond coach and “good teacher” Damien Hardwick made sure the message got across to his players during the review of his match.
But Hardwick remained “cool and calm” in delivering the message, as a lesson in controlling your emotions.
Lambert said the players took full responsibility for the narrow defeat and were adamant that should a similar situation occur in the future, it would end differently.
“We trained this thing all summer and unfortunately we failed to execute,” Lambert said.
“It’s out of the coaches’ hands at that time of the game and as players, we take responsibility and we should have been better in those last five minutes.
“It was more of a refresher (that we’ve had in recent days). We had the answers and we just didn’t deliver.
“I’m sure if we’re in that same position again, we’ll learn from this.”
Lambert, 24, a mature-age recruit picked up from the VFL last year, said he has been pleased by his own solid start to the season, admitting the way he closed out 2015 wasn’t up to his standards.
He said consistency was now a focus, but thanks to added size and fitness, was enjoying using the new interchange cap to his advantage.
“With the rotations being capped at 90, we’ve got to be able to find a way to stay on the ground longer and be more efficient,” he said.
“If that can be late in games and I can use it to my advantage then I’m happy with that.”
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/richmond/kane-lambert-says-richmond-players-wear-blame-for-collingwood-loss-and-will-learn-from-it/news-story/e9c283227e82bddda3362c02a082a121
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Wonder how things are going internally in the football dept. Dave Astbury certainly disaffected with the coaching group, made known through his comments to media and that wasn't an accident he knew exactly what he was saying and the possible ramifications that media could seize upon some possible disharmony within the ranks.
I'm not convinced all is well down there, the back stabbing may have begun.
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Lennon leading a group planning to confront the board over Hardwick is the word.... :shh
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Lennon leading a group planning to confront the board over Hardwick is the word.... :shh
King Lennon?
I doubt this is true and at 1-1 he has no hope of achieving anything. At 1-6 he stands a small chance though... ;D
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Lennon leading a group planning to confront the board over Hardwick is the word.... :shh
King Lennon?
I doubt this is true and at 1-1 he has no hope of achieving anything. At 1-6 he stands a small chance though... ;D
It isn't
Utter rubbish
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Lennon leading a group planning to confront the board over Hardwick is the word.... :shh
King Lennon?
I doubt this is true and at 1-1 he has no hope of achieving anything. At 1-6 he stands a small chance though... ;D
It isn't
Utter rubbish
Thanks WP.
I know that you would know what's going on with Ben more than most here. :shh
;D
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Lennon leading a group planning to confront the board over Hardwick is the word.... :shh
Vladimir Illych Lennon?
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They forgot to send astbury media training eh
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At least he's honest
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Yeah, na, one game at a time
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They forgot to send astbury media training eh
U mean "Lie school"?
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At least he's honest
Love it and an absolute indictment on the coaching staff.
I remember last years narrow win over the pies when we opened up in the second qtr and started to run and gun and kicked something like 6-8 in a row, - it was good footy
at the end of the game dimmer said that's not what we're about, that's not the Richmond way. Was almost as if the players said stuff you and did their own thing. stuffing moron
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At least he's honest
agreed
its refreshing and strange
They forgot to send astbury media training eh
U mean "Lie school"?
:lol
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So....how much longer are we going to pretend there isn't an issue ?
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Sixth year at a club and still can't articulate to the players what he requires of them during a game.
Yeh right, dimmer.
Truth is you have N F I about what to do, let alone be expected to articulate it.
There's the biggest problem.
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Maybe Astbury is a dumb poo too?
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Maybe Astbury is a dumb poo too?
thats a possibility
another, is hardwick is a dumb poo
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Sixth year at a club and still can't articulate to the players what he requires of them during a game.
Yeh right, dimmer.
Truth is you have N F I about what to do, let alone be expected to articulate it.
There's the biggest problem.
It's one of the problems
Situation not helped by our players not following instructions that have been in place for a very long time. What went on in the last 3 minutes from hell is not what they've been instructed when it comes to "icing the clock"..
We still have far too many panic merchants when the heats on
They (and by they I mean coach, assistants coaches and players) are all to blame for last Friday night. Every single one of them.
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Blame is one thing, taking responsibility is another but at what point does anyone get held accountable for reoccurring mistakes?
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Blame is one thing, taking responsibility is another but at what point does anyone get held accountable for reoccurring mistakes?
Again every single one of them needs to take responsibility for their collective ineptitude, they all should be held to account, all of them
Starting at the top and going right through the collective
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Did anyone see the 3 or 4 clips they showed on AFL 360 the other night of us losing those most recent close games of the last couple of years? There was a common denominator in all those clips and it was Houli. The sooner he is removed from our backline the better. HE ISNT A BACKMANS hole. He is a decent kick but surely his defending is an issue. He is often the lose man in our defense but only ever hurts the bottom sides. He panics and he is soft and hasn't got an aggressive bone in his body.
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Blame is one thing, taking responsibility is another but at what point does anyone get held accountable for reoccurring mistakes?
Again every single one of them needs to take responsibility for their collective ineptitude, they all should be held to account, all of them
Starting at the top and going right through the collective
Agree. Honestly, you don't need a coach to teach players how to play in those circumstances.
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Did anyone see the 3 or 4 clips they showed on AFL 360 the other night of us losing those most recent close games of the last couple of years? There was a common denominator in all those clips and it was Houli. The sooner he is removed from our backline the better. HE ISNT A BACKMANS behindhole. He is a decent kick but surely his defending is an issue. He is often the lose man in our defense but only ever hurts the bottom sides. He panics and he is soft and hasn't got an aggressive bone in his body.
Understand what you are saying
But big tone, who have we got to put in that position who can give us the run (stress run) and carry from the defensive back half? And I am talking about someone who actually has some speed and endurance
That's part of the issue right at the minute I think anyway, we have no one else who can do that. That was what Yarran was recruited for but he is yet get on the park and is still a few weeks away form getting game time at VFL level let alone AFL level
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Did you see how many set shots Houli missed? Yep, lets blame him ... & only him ...
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Did anyone see the 3 or 4 clips they showed on AFL 360 the other night of us losing those most recent close games of the last couple of years? There was a common denominator in all those clips and it was Houli. The sooner he is removed from our backline the better. HE ISNT A BACKMANS behindhole. He is a decent kick but surely his defending is an issue. He is often the lose man in our defense but only ever hurts the bottom sides. He panics and he is soft and hasn't got an aggressive bone in his body.
Understand what you are saying
But big tone, who have we got to put in that position who can give us the run (stress run) and carry from the defensive back half? And I am talking about someone who actually has some speed and endurance
That's part of the issue right at the minute I think anyway, we have no one else who can do that. That was what Yarran was recruited for but he is yet get on the park and is still a few weeks away form getting game time at VFL level let alone AFL level
I really like what I saw from McIntosh the other night off half back. He is tough, and he will run all day. He is definitely not as good a kick as Houli but at least he can defend first and foremost.
McIntosh and Vlastuin off halfback for mine.
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Did you see how many set shots Houli missed? Yep, lets blame him ... & only him ...
From memory his missed one on the run.
But missing goals and not defending them are exactly the same.
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so that puts cotchin in the same bag as houli?
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and grigg and all the other potatoes in the sack
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Did anyone see the 3 or 4 clips they showed on AFL 360 the other night of us losing those most recent close games of the last couple of years? There was a common denominator in all those clips and it was Houli. The sooner he is removed from our backline the better. HE ISNT A BACKMANS behindhole. He is a decent kick but surely his defending is an issue. He is often the lose man in our defense but only ever hurts the bottom sides. He panics and he is soft and hasn't got an aggressive bone in his body.
The Freo game was an obvious stuff up and possibly even the GC one but he was trying to protect the goal line (where the hell was the loose?!). Putting the blame on him for this recent one is a little stiff though. Can't recall the 4th one
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so that puts cotchin in the same bag as houli?
Anther stupid question.
Unusual.
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Did anyone see the 3 or 4 clips they showed on AFL 360 the other night of us losing those most recent close games of the last couple of years? There was a common denominator in all those clips and it was Houli. The sooner he is removed from our backline the better. HE ISNT A BACKMANS behindhole. He is a decent kick but surely his defending is an issue. He is often the lose man in our defense but only ever hurts the bottom sides. He panics and he is soft and hasn't got an aggressive bone in his body.
The Freo game was an obvious stuff up and possibly even the GC one but he was trying to protect the goal line (where the hell was the loose?!). Putting the blame on him for this recent one is a little stiff though. Can't recall the 4th one
Just stating he was the common denominator the the clips they showed.
Do you think he is a good defender? Simple question.
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Blame is one thing, taking responsibility is another but at what point does anyone get held accountable for reoccurring mistakes?
Again every single one of them needs to take responsibility for their collective ineptitude, they all should be held to account, all of them
Starting at the top and going right through the collective
Agree. Honestly, you don't need a coach to teach players how to play in those circumstances.
The very definition of good coaching is to take the playing FROM where they are TO where they need to be in order to be successful.
The fact these same errors are getting made IS player related but is also coaching related and list management related - the coaching issue it's a clear lack of effectiveness in developing a team.
And yet the accountability is hard to pin down as the club has given him a 3 season mandate to continue delivering a plateaued standard.
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Did anyone see the 3 or 4 clips they showed on AFL 360 the other night of us losing those most recent close games of the last couple of years? There was a common denominator in all those clips and it was Houli. The sooner he is removed from our backline the better. HE ISNT A BACKMANS behindhole. He is a decent kick but surely his defending is an issue. He is often the lose man in our defense but only ever hurts the bottom sides. He panics and he is soft and hasn't got an aggressive bone in his body.
The Freo game was an obvious stuff up and possibly even the GC one but he was trying to protect the goal line (where the hell was the loose?!). Putting the blame on him for this recent one is a little stiff though. Can't recall the 4th one
Just stating he was the common denominator the the clips they showed.
Do you think he is a good defender? Simple question.
The issue is it isn't a simple question but here it goes keeping it as simple as possible. No he is not good at defending, probably not as bad as some people believe though. His rebounding out of defence is needed though and is generally reliable in that aspect.
So overall = average. Improve if we can but necessary atm.
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I'll go one step further. Houli's best position is wing. He has been asked to play a game that he is not a natural at because of his ability to run and carry and rebound. Yarran is in the same boat. He will provide even more run when fit but is even more suspect as a one on one defender than Houli. Both these guys should be playing defensive wing. In other words, they should be running back hard to provide the rebound option when the ball goes into our back half without having to stay back permanently. That way they both can provide that vital kick into our own inside 50 as they are probably two of the best kicks in the side, as well as being in position to kick goals themselves.
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Did you see how many set shots Houli missed? Yep, lets blame him ... & only him ...
From memory his missed one on the run.
But missing goals and not defending them are exactly the same.
so that puts cotchin in the same bag as houli?
Anther stupid question.
Unusual.
oh, now that clarifies your comment completely ::)
or about as much as expected anyway.
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Too soft for backline
Was he not a HFF / wing in juniors ?
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Too soft for backline
Was he not a HFF / wing in juniors ?
My point exactly.
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I was helping
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I was helping
:cheers
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Problem is wingers still have to work hard defensively. Can you trust Houli to do that?
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Problem is wingers still have to work hard defensively. Can you trust Houli to do that?
I think he has enough defensive qualities to do that. Just...
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Problem is wingers still have to work hard defensively. Can you trust Houli to do that?
Better to squib it on the wing than back pocket...
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If we're this concerned about Houli's defensive efforts I look forward to people seeing some of Yarran's attempts... :shh
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Problem is wingers still have to work hard defensively. Can you trust Houli to do that?
Better to squib it on the wing than back pocket...
limit the damage.
I like it. Make the move dimwit.