One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Hard Roar Tiger on April 15, 2016, 10:52:18 PM

Title: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on April 15, 2016, 10:52:18 PM
Which one has had the worst error at the club?
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 15, 2016, 10:53:06 PM
You mean era right? Or do you actually mean error or both  ;D
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on April 15, 2016, 10:54:31 PM
You mean era right? Or do you actually mean error or both  ;D

They've started out as an "Era" but ended as "Errors"  :shh
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 15, 2016, 10:55:42 PM
You mean era right? Or do you actually mean error or both  ;D

They've started out as an "Era" but ended as "Errors"  :shh

 :thumbsup
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Jackstar 1960 on April 15, 2016, 10:58:14 PM
At least Spud won a final
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on April 15, 2016, 10:59:21 PM
At least Spud won a final

He beat Carlton.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: crackertiger on April 15, 2016, 10:59:27 PM
Hardwick. He has had tge better lists.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Francois Jackson on April 15, 2016, 11:00:45 PM
Against Carlton

Really if anyone is wondering if he can coach then watch dimwit in the box.

Never on the phone, just sits there and watches
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Tigeritis™©® on April 15, 2016, 11:01:53 PM
Hardwick is the worst because he's has 20 times more recourses than the other two put together.

Wallace is a flog thought he was great but was found out by the might of mediocrity & Miller was a bigger flog than Wallace and Casey was a bigger flog than Miller.

Spud is a good bloke but just had no idea and the club was an absolute shambles.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 15, 2016, 11:06:38 PM
Reckon Hardwick & Frawley  are all as bad as each other

Both have failed for more or less the same reason and that is over rating our cattle and believing we are a few players away from a flag

Wallace failed because he didn't stick to the plan he sold himself, developing our own and building a list

TBBH right now I can't split em
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Lozza on April 15, 2016, 11:11:08 PM
Hardwick could have gone out with some dignity but unfortunately he is now at the bottom of a massive hole which should by rights swallow him up for him never to be seen again. I don't know whats going on at the moment but someone somewhere involved with the club needs to set the record straight as to how things have come to this so quickly.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: tony_montana on April 15, 2016, 11:14:10 PM
You mean era right? Or do you actually mean error or both  ;D

They've started out as an "Era" but ended as "Errors"  :shh

 :lol
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Diocletian on April 15, 2016, 11:23:57 PM
Hardwick is squandering the best years of the best talent we've had in decades.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Tigeritis™©® on April 15, 2016, 11:26:07 PM
Reckon Hardwick & Frawley  are all as bad as each other

Both have failed for more or less the same reason and that is over rating our cattle and believing we are a few players away from a flag

Wallace failed because he didn't stick to the plan he sold himself, developing our own and building a list

TBBH right now I can't split em
Ok then which out of the three has had the most resources? That might answer it for you.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 15, 2016, 11:27:42 PM
Reckon Hardwick & Frawley  are all as bad as each other

Both have failed for more or less the same reason and that is over rating our cattle and believing we are a few players away from a flag

Wallace failed because he didn't stick to the plan he sold himself, developing our own and building a list

TBBH right now I can't split em
Ok then which out of the three has had the most resources? That might answer it for you.

In the last 3 years obviously Hardwick has, before then none of em had enough resources
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: TigerMonk on April 15, 2016, 11:29:54 PM
You don't beat reigning premiers for several years with the wrong cattle.  Injuries play a huge part in our club the past few years. We have the players but need to change the way we play. Direct down the guts movement with big marking forwards win more games than going Backwards, Sideways, Playing wide hogging the boundry. The coach needs to take action on players who commit the same errors. If you going to lose you may as well lose by being tough on the players & if that means dropping players for constant rubbish just do it. The game plan is not working & breaking down badly. The coach has had long enough to build several game plans against all sides. This is not happening & we do have the right players. Off with the 2 coaches heads Hardwick & Chocco must go. Its been a failed summer getting it through & the coach must be terminated tomorrow
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: tony_montana on April 16, 2016, 07:03:33 AM
Agree tm
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Chuck17 on April 16, 2016, 07:10:26 AM
What time is it happening tomorrow?
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Heart of Darkness on April 16, 2016, 10:00:06 AM
You don't beat reigning premiers for several years with the wrong cattle.  Injuries play a huge part in our club the past few years. We have the players but need to change the way we play. Direct down the guts movement with big marking forwards win more games than going Backwards, Sideways, Playing wide hogging the boundry. The coach needs to take action on players who commit the same errors. If you going to lose you may as well lose by being tough on the players & if that means dropping players for constant rubbish just do it. The game plan is not working & breaking down badly. The coach has had long enough to build several game plans against all sides. This is not happening & we do have the right players. Off with the 2 coaches heads Hardwick & Chocco must go. Its been a failed summer getting it through & the coach must be terminated tomorrow

You really think a side with Chaplin, Moore, Hunt and Hampson isn't the wrong cattle? Then you've got guys picked up from the VFL in Lloyd and Lambert (who've actually been two of our best this year), guys picked up from other clubs who should be fringe 22 but seem to critical components (Houli, Grigg), overrated 1st round draft picks who get around like they're guns (Ellis and Vickery) and kids who show promise but probably aren't ready (C Ellis, Menadue and Rioli).

Don't get me wrong there are big issues with coaching, developing etc. but we also desperately need more class.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: tdy on April 16, 2016, 11:46:55 AM
Hardwick had more resources but he had a compromised draft. Frawley had the best list vs the rest of the competition.Campbell, knights, Richo, they just over rated the 2nd and 3rrd teir players on the list. Wallace had no resources and a poor list and over rated his own coaching ability.  None have actually been good teachers or good judges of talent.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: TigerMonk on April 16, 2016, 05:18:32 PM
Hardwick had more resources but he had a compromised draft. Frawley had the best list vs the rest of the competition.Campbell, knights, Richo, they just over rated the 2nd and 3rrd teir players on the list. Wallace had no resources and a poor list and over rated his own coaching ability.  None have actually been good teachers or good judges of talent.

if you reckon Richo Campbell & Knights are 3rd tier players you should stop watching the game & go follow golf & be someone's bag goffer. They were 3 very high quality players who needed a bit more help from the club.  :lol
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: tony_montana on April 16, 2016, 05:20:17 PM
Reckon we need to go to the photo to split them
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Willy on April 16, 2016, 05:20:34 PM
Hardwick had more resources but he had a compromised draft. Frawley had the best list vs the rest of the competition.Campbell, knights, Richo, they just over rated the 2nd and 3rrd teir players on the list. Wallace had no resources and a poor list and over rated his own coaching ability.  None have actually been good teachers or good judges of talent.

if you reckon Richo Campbell & Knights are 3rd tier players you should stop watching the game & go follow golf & be someone's bag goffer. They were 3 very high quality players who needed a bit more help from the club.  :lol

You misread Tdy's post.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: TigerMonk on April 16, 2016, 05:29:02 PM
Hardwick had more resources but he had a compromised draft. Frawley had the best list vs the rest of the competition.Campbell, knights, Richo, they just over rated the 2nd and 3rrd teir players on the list. Wallace had no resources and a poor list and over rated his own coaching ability.  None have actually been good teachers or good judges of talent.

if you reckon Richo Campbell & Knights are 3rd tier players you should stop watching the game & go follow golf & be someone's bag goffer. They were 3 very high quality players who needed a bit more help from the club.  :lol

You misread Tdy's post.

Yes l did  :snidegrin so sorry  ;D
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Francois Jackson on April 16, 2016, 05:32:48 PM
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/richmond/richmonds-recruiting-strategy-hasnt-worked-says-former-tigers-coach-danny-frawley/news-story/a03254510148acb3aa066d2445ff5882
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: TigerMonk on April 16, 2016, 06:01:51 PM
So Danny Frawley tell me why Hawthorn has not beaten Richmond in several years. His article makes no sense. When our players are not injured we are matching the Hawthorns & beating them so our recruiting has worked. Its the other players that need games into them. We have had some bad runs of injury the last few years. Hawks were very lucky to beat the Saints today & had to rely on Luke Hodge & Mitchell. They have alot of injuries also & the Box Hill Hawks have been good for some seasons while we have struggled & are building Richmond reserves side. We have also drafted players who walked away from the club 5 times at least in the last few seasons so that hurts any club. If we beat the Hawks in the premiership season again what will the next article be about  :snidegrin
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: (•))(©™ on April 16, 2016, 06:09:57 PM
Hardwick Malaka by a mile
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: 1980 on April 16, 2016, 07:53:10 PM
There is no difference between Frawley and Hardwick. They are the same person
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: (•))(©™ on April 16, 2016, 07:55:53 PM
Hardwick knows more words
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: 1980 on April 16, 2016, 08:00:44 PM
Hardwick knows more words

When Hardwick opens his mouth its Benny Gale speaking
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: wayne on April 16, 2016, 08:13:08 PM
Hardwick had more resources but he had a compromised draft. Frawley had the best list vs the rest of the competition.Campbell, knights, Richo, they just over rated the 2nd and 3rrd teir players on the list. Wallace had no resources and a poor list and over rated his own coaching ability.  None have actually been good teachers or good judges of talent.

The compromised draft... our pick 2 turned into pick 6.... pick 7 Caddy, pick 8 Heppell, Prestia, Tom Lynch.... all available. Pick 30 Parker was available.

I think we only complain about the compromised draft because we stuffed it up so badly.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on April 16, 2016, 08:50:15 PM
Ironically pick 2 was Bennell.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: tdy on April 16, 2016, 08:51:14 PM
Hardwick had more resources but he had a compromised draft. Frawley had the best list vs the rest of the competition.Campbell, knights, Richo, they just over rated the 2nd and 3rrd teir players on the list. Wallace had no resources and a poor list and over rated his own coaching ability.  None have actually been good teachers or good judges of talent.

if you reckon Richo Campbell & Knights are 3rd tier players you should stop watching the game & go follow golf & be someone's bag goffer. They were 3 very high quality players who needed a bit more help from the club.  :lol

No No No Richo, Campbell and Knights are examples of his first tier players (I'm not totally mad :) ) and I reckon his first tier had more talent than our current first tier (Jack, Lids, Cotch, Martin) and Wallaces first tier (An older Richo and Campbell again, a young lids) .  What Frawley did was over rate his second tier and third tier.  What Wallace did was bring in a rotten second and third tier.  I don't think he overrated them, I just think he prayed hard that the selectors could do their job.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: tdy on April 16, 2016, 09:03:02 PM
Hardwick had more resources but he had a compromised draft. Frawley had the best list vs the rest of the competition.Campbell, knights, Richo, they just over rated the 2nd and 3rrd teir players on the list. Wallace had no resources and a poor list and over rated his own coaching ability.  None have actually been good teachers or good judges of talent.

The compromised draft... our pick 2 turned into pick 6.... pick 7 Caddy, pick 8 Heppell, Prestia, Tom Lynch.... all available. Pick 30 Parker was available.

I think we only complain about the compromised draft because we stuffed it up so badly.

Yeah but all the 17 year olds were gone from years previous, pick 2 was really pick 12 or there abouts for about 3 or 4 years.

But I agree we stuffed our drafts, which is why I am finally saying we must delist Jackson.  I've given him the benefit of the doubt over 8 or 9 years now, through the under resourced periods, and it's time to go.  In this highly resourced period he has consistently failed to find National Draft gems further down the rungs and the top picks he has hits and misses. Hits Lids, Cotch, Martin, Misses Griff, Conca

I wouldn't be surprised if we have done better from the rookie draft (Miles, Grimes) than our picks past 30 (in the last 5 years).
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Diocletian on April 16, 2016, 09:07:55 PM
Helicopter Campbell was a selfish, soft, unaccountable bludger and the start of an onfield cancer that we still haven't cut out.



No No No Richo, Campbell and Knights are examples of his first tier players (I'm not totally mad :) ) and I reckon his first tier had more talent than our current first tier (Jack, Lids, Cotch, Martin)


Nope - the current first tier's easily the best we've had since the 80's.....Hardwick's just strangled the life out of them...
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: big tone on April 16, 2016, 09:51:09 PM
Hardwick had more resources but he had a compromised draft. Frawley had the best list vs the rest of the competition.Campbell, knights, Richo, they just over rated the 2nd and 3rrd teir players on the list. Wallace had no resources and a poor list and over rated his own coaching ability.  None have actually been good teachers or good judges of talent.

The compromised draft... our pick 2 turned into pick 6.... pick 7 Caddy, pick 8 Heppell, Prestia, Tom Lynch.... all available. Pick 30 Parker was available.

I think we only complain about the compromised draft because we stuffed it up so badly.

Yeah but all the 17 year olds were gone from years previous, pick 2 was really pick 12 or there abouts for about 3 or 4 years.

But I agree we stuffed our drafts, which is why I am finally saying we must delist Jackson.  I've given him the benefit of the doubt over 8 or 9 years now, through the under resourced periods, and it's time to go.  In this highly resourced period he has consistently failed to find National Draft gems further down the rungs and the top picks he has hits and misses. Hits Lids, Cotch, Martin, Misses Griff, Conca

I wouldn't be surprised if we have done better from the rookie draft (Miles, Grimes) than our picks past 30 (in the last 5 years).
You forgot BEllis. It's taken awhile for all to see but most have caught on.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: tdy on April 16, 2016, 09:55:10 PM
To take that thought up if you look at footywire excluding the last two years which haven't really played out yet

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2014 (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2014)
Rookies have played more games than the ND draft minus the first round

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2013 (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2013)
3rd and 4th round ND just beat rookie picks in games played but one of those 4th rounders was a rookie promotion, if you put Petterd as a rookie pick then rookies beat ND minus the first round again.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2012 (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2012)
rookies equal the 3 2nd rounders we had that year.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2011 (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2011)
10 rookie games vs 20 ND minus 1st round.  What a crap draft that was.  This is a nil all draw.

Its not until 2010
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2010 (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2010)
that ND 2nd round and below = 94 beats rookie 29 hands down and that's because of Jake Batchelor the rest of the ND failed.

WTF We do equally as well or better from rookie drafts 3 out of 5 years there and 2011 is almost a nil all draw.  We ought to beat it hands down every year but it says how weak round 2 and below of the national draft has been under Jackson.  There is no realistic way we can build a premiership team without regularly getting 2 or 3 good players per national draft.  We don't have the Sydney salary cap allowance, nor the attractive anonymity a player gets in Brisbane. 

If you get one good player in the ND and one in the rookie or another draft it still takes you 10 years to build 20 good players at which time a pile (half) have broken down or retired or moved on and your age and experience bracket just doesn't work.  You really need 3 a year to get 15 good players in 5 years and it helps if you get a Geelong great year and keep 8 (was it 8 or 6, anyway it was a lot).

We need a talent spotter for the lower draft levels.  Jackson clearly isn't it.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: tdy on April 16, 2016, 10:01:16 PM
Hardwick had more resources but he had a compromised draft. Frawley had the best list vs the rest of the competition.Campbell, knights, Richo, they just over rated the 2nd and 3rrd teir players on the list. Wallace had no resources and a poor list and over rated his own coaching ability.  None have actually been good teachers or good judges of talent.

The compromised draft... our pick 2 turned into pick 6.... pick 7 Caddy, pick 8 Heppell, Prestia, Tom Lynch.... all available. Pick 30 Parker was available.

I think we only complain about the compromised draft because we stuffed it up so badly.

Yeah but all the 17 year olds were gone from years previous, pick 2 was really pick 12 or there abouts for about 3 or 4 years.

But I agree we stuffed our drafts, which is why I am finally saying we must delist Jackson.  I've given him the benefit of the doubt over 8 or 9 years now, through the under resourced periods, and it's time to go.  In this highly resourced period he has consistently failed to find National Draft gems further down the rungs and the top picks he has hits and misses. Hits Lids, Cotch, Martin, Misses Griff, Conca

I wouldn't be surprised if we have done better from the rookie draft (Miles, Grimes) than our picks past 30 (in the last 5 years).
You forgot BEllis. It's taken awhile for all to see but most have caught on.

I take your point, B Ellis has played a lot of games but were they good games? Well that's in the eye of the beholder.    C Ellis is a worry too, he really needs to up his possession gathering skills.
Title: Re: Frawley vs Wallace vs Hardwick
Post by: Diocletian on April 16, 2016, 10:23:53 PM
The only worry with kids like C.Ellis, Menadue etc is if they continue to be poorly coached & developed under the current regime - otherwise they're the least of our worries...they're actually the most likely to come good as they can still be saved by a change in direction....