One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: WilliamPowell on November 16, 2016, 01:19:46 PM
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Despite a doomsday prediction a few weeks back about a loss around $1mil-$2mil club has recorded a loss of $80,257 for the year
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Richmond 2016 financial result
richmondfc.com.au
November 16, 2016 12:30 PM
Richmond will report a deficit of $80,257 for the financial year ended 31 October.
The Club generated an operating surplus of $1.2 million but after amortisation and depreciation, a small loss will be reported.
The Club generated revenue of $47.5 million, an increase of $825,000 year-on-year.
On-field performance saw match day attendances drop 14.6% across the season and this had a significant impact on the final result, as did bad debts related to two club sponsors which totalled more than $300,000.
Richmond President, Peggy O’Neal said that despite recording a loss for the first time in more than a decade, members can be assured the Club remains in a sound financial position.
“It has been a challenging year for our football club, but we remain debt free, have cash reserves of more than $2 million and a strong net asset position of $24.1 million,” O’Neal said.
“I can guarantee members that our hard-earned financial stability will never be taken for granted.
“The Board will continue to carefully manage finances while looking for opportunities to grow and diversify the Club’s revenue base to enable us to continue investing in our core business of football.
“This year the Board made significant decisions to establish Aligned Leisure and the Richmond Institute of Sports Leadership.
“These well-considered business decisions diversify revenue streams and will help underpin the Club’s financial stability long-term.
“I am also pleased to say that while football is our core business, and always our number one priority, we continue to invest in the community.
“Our charity partnership with the Alannah & Madeline Foundation, and our work with Indigenous youth in the Korin Gamadji Institute, which includes our partnership with the Melbourne Indigenous Transition School are industry leading, and I know that members and supporters are proud of the Club’s sincere contribution to the community.
“As we look forward now, there is a real sense of renewal and enthusiasm around the Club as the players and coaches begin the hard work of pre-season in preparation for season 2017.”
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/2016-11-16/richmond-2016-financial-result
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Anus Horribus
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How does a club with 75,000 members make a loss of any sort?
Other clubs with upto 40000 less members (approx 8million dollars) must be bleeding.
Oh wait, they have proper sponsorship deals and other revenue streams.
Lmfao Peggy and the gang. Give yourselves and Dimma another 5 years
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And this, lesser amount is acceptable, because why?
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Stupid. Sack her
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And this, lesser amount is acceptable, because why?
stuffed if i know. Anyone?
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Will need to check the fine print
😉
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And this, lesser amount is acceptable, because why?
Not sure anyone said it's acceptable
How does a club with 75,000 members make a loss of any sort?
Other clubs with upto 40000 less members (approx 8million dollars) must be bleeding.
Oh wait, they have proper sponsorship deals and other revenue streams.
Well clubs with less than 40k members get hand outs from the AFL, take away that and they make losses (Hi N0rt, Saints, Dogs and Dees). Dogs will make a first time profit on their own this year ONLY because they won the flag
So I suppose it begs the question how does a club with nearly 80k members, turnover of of close to $60mil, superior sponsorship deals, better deal with the MCG than we do make only just on a $1mil rather than their normal $2-3mill (pies saying howdy too U to)
Or isn't that relevant?
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We await further news regarding sponsors this month.
Superannuation giant HostPlus has extended its sponsorship of Richmond's much-depleted coaching department through to the end of 2018, but shorts sponsor Decor is out of contract in November. That deal is estimated at $350,000 a season.
Other contracts that end in November include gold-level partners AGL and Viagogo, which both pay an estimated $250,000 a year to the Tigers.
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/richmond-tigers/1-million-boost-for-richmond-tigers-as-bingle-signs-on-for-another-season-20160912-grebu1.html
Not to mention the news re BLK
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We await further news regarding sponsors this month.
Superannuation giant HostPlus has extended its sponsorship of Richmond's much-depleted coaching department through to the end of 2018, but shorts sponsor Decor is out of contract in November. That deal is estimated at $350,000 a season.
Other contracts that end in November include gold-level partners AGL and Viagogo, which both pay an estimated $250,000 a year to the Tigers.
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/richmond-tigers/1-million-boost-for-richmond-tigers-as-bingle-signs-on-for-another-season-20160912-grebu1.html
Not to mention the news re BLK
Decor and AGL look goneskis as both are gone from the bottom of the main page and the sponsors page. Disappointed losing Decor if they are goneskis, was an excellent partnership
And just so people understand (because ive just had txt from someone who's askedme) the BLK thing has no impact or is included in the loss. Club find year finishes 31 October and this has happened after that date. Club should note it in the annual accounts as something that may have a future financial bearing but should not record in those numbers. Unless and I doubt it this would be case as it's only appeared on ASICS this morning, they were aware prior to 31 Oct
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Why can't I call her a bitch ?
Prove she isn't.
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And just so people understand (because ive just had txt from someone who's askedme) the BLK thing has no impact or is included in the loss. Club find year finishes 31 October and this has happened after that date. Club should note it in the annual accounts as something that may have a future financial bearing but should not record in those numbers. Unless and I doubt it this would be case as it's only appeared on ASICS this morning, they were aware prior to 31 Oct
I dunno WP.
I'll defer to your superior accounting knowledge but doesn't that assume that all accounts were paid out.
They were after all, due to finish their current sponsorship in November.
PS I've just been reading the Age story about Goulburn Murray's accounts being questioned by Morris Forensic who claim they're off by $150M so you can understand why I'm a bit wary.
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So Peggy says we're in a 'sound financial position' does she?
Two months ago when the the board being challenged she told us we were in a strong financial position.
Whats changed in 8 weeks?
:shh
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So Peggy says we're in a 'sound financial position' does she?
Two months ago when the the board being challenged she told us we were in a strong financial position.
Whats changed in 8 weeks?
:shh
The PR approach?
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Oops bad typo in my 1st post
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Richmond members currently looking as stupid as the libtards.
This woman is putting her personal agenda ahead of the good of "HER" club.
Whilst reality boasts failed presidency, she bides time on the off chance, things might turn around..l before she's assasinated (politically speaking, of course )
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And this, lesser amount is acceptable, because why?
Not sure anyone said it's acceptable
How does a club with 75,000 members make a loss of any sort?
Other clubs with upto 40000 less members (approx 8million dollars) must be bleeding.
Oh wait, they have proper sponsorship deals and other revenue streams.
Well clubs with less than 40k members get hand outs from the AFL, take away that and they make losses (Hi N0rt, Saints, Dogs and Dees). Dogs will make a first time profit on their own this year ONLY because they won the flag
So I suppose it begs the question how does a club with nearly 80k members, turnover of of close to $60mil, superior sponsorship deals, better deal with the MCG than we do make only just on a $1mil rather than their normal $2-3mill (pies saying howdy too U to)
Or isn't that relevant?
Would have thought it is somewhat relevant but instead of a very carefully contrived and inferenced contextual defense of the club, perhaps you could comment on our specific situation and whether two wrongs make a right. In your opinion
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I dunno WP.
I'll defer to your superior accounting knowledge but doesn't that assume that all accounts were paid out.
They were after all, due to finish their current sponsorship in November.
PS I've just been reading the Age story about Goulburn Murray's accounts being questioned by Morris Forensic who claim they're off by $150M so you can understand why I'm a bit wary.
Get what you are saying
But BLK's deal has another 2 years to run up until 31 Oct 2018
Only ones running out in November read 1st November were Décor, AGL & Viagogo (the legal ticket scalping mob)
I am assuming they have paid all monies owed to 31/10/2016 = in the fin year they are due
As BLK have only informed ASIC today I just find it hard to believe that we knew before hand; especially when you consider they only announced a new 3 year deal with St Kilda late last week....
This is all very sudden
But we will know when the annual accounts are released after the audit of them are completed
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This woman is putting her personal agenda ahead of the good of "HER" club.
Sorry you've lost
Based on the article and her comments about the financial results for this year please point out to me "her personal agenda" in those comments
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Richmond members currently looking as stupid as the libtards.
This woman is putting her personal agenda ahead of the good of "HER" club.
Whilst reality boasts failed presidency, she bides time on the off chance, things might turn around..l before she's assasinated (politically speaking, of course )
seriously brackets you have lost the plot
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Sorry WP my mistake.
So many seem to be running out in November I got confused.
IIRC even the Bingle one was finishing in November.
Thought it might be a set date for all deals before the AGM but as you say the accounts are done.
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And this, lesser amount is acceptable, because why?
Not sure anyone said it's acceptable
How does a club with 75,000 members make a loss of any sort?
Other clubs with upto 40000 less members (approx 8million dollars) must be bleeding.
Oh wait, they have proper sponsorship deals and other revenue streams.
Well clubs with less than 40k members get hand outs from the AFL, take away that and they make losses (Hi N0rt, Saints, Dogs and Dees). Dogs will make a first time profit on their own this year ONLY because they won the flag
So I suppose it begs the question how does a club with nearly 80k members, turnover of of close to $60mil, superior sponsorship deals, better deal with the MCG than we do make only just on a $1mil rather than their normal $2-3mill (pies saying howdy too U to)
Or isn't that relevant?
Probably because they have a recruitment department and football department that is properly resourced and not from the Stone Age I would have thought willy
And now we are cutting costs and going into 2017 with less coaches . But is a complete joke and confirmation to me that any money given to the RICHMOND football club is a waste of money .
They should give us all back our ftf money as they have peeed it up the wall
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Sorry WP my mistake.
So many seem to be running out in November I got confused.
IIRC even the Bingle one was finishing in November.
Thought it might be a set date for all deals before the AGM but as you say the accounts are done.
Bingle re-signed in Oct. It was due to finish 31/10/2016
Usually all contracts are tied the clubs financial year 1 Nov to 31 Oct
Outside of what we currently not in place (eg Ground naming rights & shorts the 2 biggest gaps as it stands) 2017 is a big year for the club with our 2 majors Jeep & Bingle falling due
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Would have thought it is somewhat relevant but instead of a very carefully contrived and inferenced contextual defense of the club, perhaps you could comment on our specific situation and whether two wrongs make a right. In your opinion
I will make this very clear
making a loss is unacceptable I never at any time said it was acceptable. Explainable and not at all surprising definitely but acceptable NO
It was you who raised the point of what other clubs do not me. You were the one who said:
How does a club with 75,000 members make a loss of any sort?
Other clubs with upto 40000 less members (approx 8million dollars) must be bleeding.
Oh wait, they have proper sponsorship deals and other revenue streams.
You raised it and used it as a whack at the club taking piece meal info and more importantly assumptions to give out whack.
All I highlighted was that your comparison is not reasonable based on the facts as they have been presented. Compare an apple with an apple and it carries some credence. Compare an apple with a pear and you have mixed fruit
I am not defending the loss but if you want compare clubs results, then either compare full details and not the bits that suit your point
And forgive me for being prepared to wait to see what the actual break up of the numbers are before I go whackety whack whack. Because the actual numbers and their commentary will tell what I need to know rather than a brief summary that has been released so far
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Would have thought it is somewhat relevant but instead of a very carefully contrived and inferenced contextual defense of the club, perhaps you could comment on our specific situation and whether two wrongs make a right. In your opinion
I will make this very clear
making a loss is unacceptable I never at any time said it was acceptable. Explainable and not at all surprising definitely but acceptable NO
It was you who raised the point of what other clubs do not me. You were the one who said:
How does a club with 75,000 members make a loss of any sort?
Other clubs with upto 40000 less members (approx 8million dollars) must be bleeding.
Oh wait, they have proper sponsorship deals and other revenue streams.
You raised it and used it as a whack at the club taking piece meal info and more importantly assumptions to give out whack.
All I highlighted was that your comparison is not reasonable based on the facts as they have been presented. Compare an apple with an apple and it carries some credence. Compare an apple with a pear and you have mixed fruit
I am not defending the loss but if you want compare clubs results, then either compare full details and not the bits that suit your point
And forgive me for being prepared to wait to see what the actual break up of the numbers are before I go whackety whack whack. Because the actual numbers and their commentary will tell what I need to know rather than a brief summary that has been released so far
Which i have a right to raise and go whack. Youve drawn your conclusions. Ive drawn mine. We made a loss. Enough said.
You say you make it very clear that your not defending the loss but but then you go on to make alot of effort to muddy the waters through inferences, narrative and hypothetical qualifications. People arent idiots. You wait for the figures.
Btw you are responsible for your own words not me. And what a suprise you havent answered my question. 2 wrongs make a right indeed.
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Btw you are responsible for your own words and havent answered my question. 2 wrongs make a right indeed.
I didn't answer it because I didn't get what you were actually asking. What 2 Wrongs exactly? You want an opinion on what that supposedly make up 2 wrongs that I am defending as a making something right ? Seriously you completely lost me.
What we've been told so far tells us very little. Article says we made a loss, waffles a couple of reasons why but for me at least that isn't enough detail to make a call on the entire result
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Bingle re-signed in Oct. It was due to finish 31/10/2016
Usually all contracts are tied the clubs financial year 1 Nov to 31 Oct
Outside of what we currently not in place (eg Ground naming rights & shorts the 2 biggest gaps as it stands) 2017 is a big year for the club with our 2 majors Jeep & Bingle falling due
Thanks for that WP.
Help solidify what you posted previously about Décor and AGL.
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And now we are cutting costs and going into 2017 with less coaches . But is a complete joke and confirmation to me that any money given to the RICHMOND football club is a waste of money .
I don't think we are cutting costs.
We are merely saving money on coaches to cover the ADDED cost of Balme, since we are also keeping Richardson.
Essentially Balme in and the two Williams' out.
Our footy dept. cost has probably gone up.
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l don't believe those figures at all. :lol
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l don't believe those figures at all. :lol
I don't either 😉
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I remember years ago Leon Daphne made a million dollar contribution to give us a profit. Makes you wonder how much the board gave this time.
Also Essendrug made a loss of 8 mill on 50 mill turnover this year. So relative to them we did well.
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Also Essendrug made a loss of 8 mill on 50 mill turnover this year. So relative to them we did well.
Sorry but that is a really foolish comparison
Essendon have had expenses that we haven't, to suggest otherwise is ridiculos
* Legal fees for their pointless court cases against ASADA / WADA
* Player compo payouts
* extra salary cap to play the top ups
* interest bill their borrowings for the facility out Essendon fields
We don't have or didn't have any of those so our result would be (rightly) no way like theirs
l don't believe those figures at all. :lol
I don't either 😉
Of course you wouldn't you were the prophet of doom, number wise
I am expecting the stock standard comments about the FTF, JDF propping up the result (once the accounts are released)
Let's see the breakdown of the numbers and then comment
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All fluff aside, how does a club of our size, after making finals 3 years in a row and having 70000 members make a loss!
That is unexceptable whichever way you try and defend it.
And to be honest I don't believe it's only $80k either.
Creative accounting to appease the riff raff... us.
2017 will be even worse with a lot of members like myself not renewing. I have had enough of the club being incompetent and the blind faith has worn thin for me.
I personally don't care who is president or who is on the board but I do expect us to make money and I do expect us to improve our onfeild proformances from the last 30 odd years.
2016 has been a disgrace and IMO the club hasn't made enough changes to remedy the situation. Getting rid of assistant coaches and bring in Balme and basically making minimal changes to our list isn't going to get the job done.
Just my opinion but it's the same as lot of Tiger supporters I know.
I must admit I'm really peeed off at our current club and the way it's taken away my passion for supporting it. I've never in all my years been so disillusioned with the RFC.
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All fluff aside, how does a club of our size, after making finals 3 years in a row and having 70000 members make a loss!
That is unexceptable whichever way you try and defend it.
And to be honest I don't believe it's only $80k either.
Creative accounting to appease the riff raff... us.
2017 will be even worse with a lot of members like myself not renewing. I have had enough of the club being incompetent and the blind faith has worn thin for me.
I personally don't care who is president or who is on the board but I do expect us to make money and I do expect us to improve our onfeild proformances from the last 30 odd years.
2016 has been a disgrace and IMO the club hasn't made enough changes to remedy the situation. Getting rid of assistant coaches and bring in Balme and basically making minimal changes to our list isn't going to get the job done.
Just my opinion but it's the same as lot of Tiger supporters I know.
I must admit I'm really peeed off at our current club and the way it's taken away my passion for supporting it. I've never in all my years been so disillusioned with the RFC.
Excellent post Tone
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The operating profit was actually $1.2m
The loss comes about after claiming Amortisation and Depreciation. Businesses of all sizes make these claims as legitimate tax deductions. Same as claiming laundry expenses on your tax or depreciation on your car for using it for work related matters.
Given we have up graded the buildings at Punt Road and the ground work there would be plenty of areas to claim big time on depreciation. Haven't seen the actual financial statements but suspect these areas contributed to the result.
One smallish loss after 11 years of profit does not trigger bankruptcy.
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The operating profit was actually $1.2m
The loss comes about after claiming Amortisation and Depreciation. Businesses of all sizes make these claims as legitimate tax deductions. Same as claiming laundry expenses on your tax or depreciation on your car for using it for work related matters.
Given we have up graded the buildings at Punt Road and the ground work there would be plenty of areas to claim big time on depreciation. Haven't seen the actual financial statements but suspect these areas contributed to the result.
One smallish loss after 11 years of profit does not trigger bankruptcy.
It shows that one should look at all the figures before one flies off the handle.
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2017 will be even worse with a lot of members like myself not renewing. I have had enough of the club being incompetent and the blind faith has worn thin for me.
I personally don't care who is president or who is on the board but I do expect us to make money and I do expect us to improve our onfeild proformances from the last 30 odd years.
2016 has been a disgrace and IMO the club hasn't made enough changes to remedy the situation. Getting rid of assistant coaches and bring in Balme and basically making minimal changes to our list isn't going to get the job done.
I must admit I'm really peeed off at our current club and the way it's taken away my passion for supporting it. I've never in all my years been so disillusioned with the RFC.
Okay.
I really hear you and understand where you're at.
This gives me a chance to say some things which I've thought about over the last day or so.
One of my last posts was a bit overwrought but describes a similar spot to where you are at.
I believe this is one of the last chances for us members to turn things around and avoid becoming a middling club forever.
I have posted (a lot) about the various moves the board has made.
Most of these moves however really come back to how the board shapes it's "ethics".
Despite what I've posted, there is nothing inherently wrong with the Nominations Committee, Election By-Laws or constitutional amendments.
It's simply how they're used in practice to IMO subvert the members will or even allow members to participate fully.
This year we have the chance through strong board candidates to make the first move.
If Casey and Wallace remove Ryan and Dunne, I think it will send a strong message to reform the way the club operates.
With only two positions each year it may need another election or more to FORCE change.
If they do not succeed then I think we are in for more of the same, despite director limits.
The club has made moves to subtly change the footy department.
- Bringing in Balme is a good move.
- Shifting Richardson sideways can be a good move.
- Coaching changes at least show an awareness of a problem
- List Management remains a worry with lack of key players and a seeming lack of an overall list plan.
- The slight changes in Recruiting are underwhelming.
- Medical and Fitness seem to have not been improved at all.
Next season will show whether these changes are enough to shift direction or, as I suspect, fail to be enough.
Just as an aside on List Management I think we missed a huge chance to fundamentally alter our thinking.
IMO, we should have delisted Maric, Batchelor, Lambert and Butler allowing us to improve our list short-term by bringing in Barlow and Richards. A missed opportunity.
With the coaching and List changes I would like to see more empowered players, excited to be involved at the highest level, aware of the huge chance to set themselves up for life and appreciative of the benefits they have now and into the future. A big part of this will be the senior players driving this attitudinal re-set.
I would like to see us take big, strong, athletic, key players in the draft with an even greater chance to do this next year.
We will have to wait and see how the changes this year will affect next year and beyond.
If these benefits do not come with our present staff they can be moved on next year after an intensive search for alternatives.
But we have the chance this year to START the process.
Don't give up now.
Buy a membership next year and push for improvement.
If it's just more of the same then I'll be with you.
Out the door and never looking back.
Sorry about the length but I am feeling the need to vent. Probably like a lot of us.
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Sorry about the length but I am feeling the need to vent. Probably like a lot of us.
We appreciate the grammar. Rant away!
Edit: Just saw your sook at my other two replies (one not even been directed at you ::)) so I should make it clear, this post is genuine
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The operating profit was actually $1.2m
The loss comes about after claiming Amortisation and Depreciation. Businesses of all sizes make these claims as legitimate tax deductions. Same as claiming laundry expenses on your tax or depreciation on your car for using it for work related matters.
Given we have up graded the buildings at Punt Road and the ground work there would be plenty of areas to claim big time on depreciation. Haven't seen the actual financial statements but suspect these areas contributed to the result.
One smallish loss after 11 years of profit does not trigger bankruptcy.
You are correct but and it's an important but
Every year there is depreciation and amortisation costs, that is not in dispute
However, when the club makes a profit; let's call it bottom line profit to keep it simplistic. It has never said we've made an operating Profit of say $3mil but after deprecation & amortisation the "bottom line" profit is $800k... it is simply announced we made a $800k profit
This year for whatever reason they have decided to make the distinction which is IMV a poor way to do it because it has created unnecessary & extra noise around the number
What they should have said again IMO is "we've made a loss of $80k which includes extra amortisation costs for the new Fitness business venture at Cardinnia Shire. Doesn't try and distort the numbers just highlights and explains an increase in expenditure due to business changes
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Okay.
I really hear you and understand where you're at.
This gives me a chance to say some things which I've thought about over the last day or so.
One of my last posts was a bit overwrought but describes a similar spot to where you are at.
I believe this is one of the last chances for us members to turn things around and avoid becoming a middling club forever.
I have posted (a lot) about the various moves the board has made.
Most of these moves however really come back to how the board shapes it's "ethics".
Despite what I've posted, there is nothing inherently wrong with the Nominations Committee, Election By-Laws or constitutional amendments.
It's simply how they're used in practice to IMO subvert the members will or even allow members to participate fully.
This year we have the chance through strong board candidates to make the first move.
If Casey and Wallace remove Ryan and Dunne, I think it will send a strong message to reform the way the club operates.
With only two positions each year it may need another election or more to FORCE change.
If they do not succeed then I think we are in for more of the same, despite director limits.
The club has made moves to subtly change the footy department.
- Bringing in Balme is a good move.
- Shifting Richardson sideways can be a good move.
- Coaching changes at least show an awareness of a problem
- List Management remains a worry with lack of key players and a seeming lack of an overall list plan.
- The slight changes in Recruiting are underwhelming.
- Medical and Fitness seem to have not been improved at all.
Next season will show whether these changes are enough to shift direction or, as I suspect, fail to be enough.
Just as an aside on List Management I think we missed a huge chance to fundamentally alter our thinking.
IMO, we should have delisted Maric, Batchelor, Lambert and Butler allowing us to improve our list short-term by bringing in Barlow and Richards. A missed opportunity.
With the coaching and List changes I would like to see more empowered players, excited to be involved at the highest level, aware of the huge chance to set themselves up for life and appreciative of the benefits they have now and into the future. A big part of this will be the senior players driving this attitudinal re-set.
I would like to see us take big, strong, athletic, key players in the draft with an even greater chance to do this next year.
We will have to wait and see how the changes this year will affect next year and beyond.
If these benefits do not come with our present staff they can be moved on next year after an intensive search for alternatives.
But we have the chance this year to START the process.
Don't give up now.
Buy a membership next year and push for improvement.
If it's just more of the same then I'll be with you.
Out the door and never looking back.
Sorry about the length but I am feeling the need to vent. Probably like a lot of us.
That is a bloody excellent post :clapping
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Sorry about the length but I am feeling the need to vent. Probably like a lot of us.
We appreciate the grammar. Rant away!
Edit: Just saw your sook at my other two replies (one not even been directed at you ::)) so I should make it clear, this post is genuine
"appreciate the grammar." ??????????????????
"Just saw your sook" ????????????????????
Diddums, give it a rest already.
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The operating profit was actually $1.2m
The loss comes about after claiming Amortisation and Depreciation. Businesses of all sizes make these claims as legitimate tax deductions. Same as claiming laundry expenses on your tax or depreciation on your car for using it for work related matters.
Given we have up graded the buildings at Punt Road and the ground work there would be plenty of areas to claim big time on depreciation. Haven't seen the actual financial statements but suspect these areas contributed to the result.
One smallish loss after 11 years of profit does not trigger bankruptcy.
You are correct but and it's an important but
Every year there is depreciation and amortisation costs, that is not in dispute
However, when the club makes a profit; let's call it bottom line profit to keep it simplistic. It has never said we've made an operating Profit of say $3mil but after deprecation & amortisation the "bottom line" profit is $800k... it is simply announced we made a $800k profit
This year for whatever reason they have decided to make the distinction which is IMV a poor way to do it because it has created unnecessary & extra noise around the number
What they should have said again IMO is "we've made a loss of $80k which includes extra amortisation costs for the new Fitness business venture at Cardinnia Shire. Doesn't try and distort the numbers just highlights and explains an increase in expenditure due to business changes
All good agree with the above. With so many new shiny things around Punt Road the depreciation expense should be higher than past years and the amortization of costs in the Fitness Centres is also new.
Cant really be bothered actually looking at the financial statements for the past few years but I am not overly worried by a smallish loss this year when budgets would have been made on the assumption of a good year most likely with us reaching the finals.
The main thing will be that the next year budgets are worked on the lower income expectations and the club returns to a profit, which will be acceptable.....unless we make a loss for paying out Hardwick (but that would still be acceptable.....as long as someone from the Board takes responsibility and resigns.)
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All good agree with the above. With so many new shiny things around Punt Road the depreciation expense should be higher than past years and the amortization of costs in the Fitness Centres is also new.
Cant really be bothered actually looking at the financial statements for the past few years but I am not overly worried by a smallish loss this year when budgets would have been made on the assumption of a good year most likely with us reaching the finals.
The main thing will be that the next year budgets are worked on the lower income expectations and the club returns to a profit, which will be acceptable.....unless we make a loss for paying out Hardwick (but that would still be acceptable.....as long as someone from the Board takes responsibility and resigns.)
You're spot on with you comments about the way the budgets were most likely set
I know people are saying they can't understand how a club with 70k members and a turnover of $40+mil can make a loss and I know I made a comment a few backs about quite easily but it is actually true (doesn't make it acceptable but explainable)
But really it is simple: Example A really on the back of the on field especially the drop in crowds the bottom line is going to take a hit. You budget for say 75k-80k for a home game against the Pies and you get less than 70k your going to cop hit, a six figure one I reckon. Both games against the Bombers where we share the 2 gates, crowds way down (especially Dreamtime) again another hit.
Then you have all your expenditure forecast based on those revenues so you don't hit all your revenue targets you are going to fall short. Again, without knowing the budgeting process or having access to the final numbers I would think the costs were reigned in the 2nd half of the season when they knew they we were going to fall short. Meaning the loss is mitigated. Left unchecked the result could have been a lot worse and then we would really have something to complain about
And (again) you are spot on re your comments about budgeting for 2017. It definitely needs to be in line with lower revenue expectations than 2016. Because I think everyone is smart enough to realise that on the membership front in particular they will take a hit..how much is the question
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Why is our revenue so much lower than clubs with similar supporter and member base? This is a more important question
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Why is our revenue so much lower than clubs with similar supporter and member base? This is a more important question
Guessing poker machine revenue might be a factor
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The operating profit was actually $1.2m
The loss comes about after claiming Amortisation and Depreciation. Businesses of all sizes make these claims as legitimate tax deductions. Same as claiming laundry expenses on your tax or depreciation on your car for using it for work related matters.
Given we have up graded the buildings at Punt Road and the ground work there would be plenty of areas to claim big time on depreciation. Haven't seen the actual financial statements but suspect these areas contributed to the result.
One smallish loss after 11 years of profit does not trigger bankruptcy.
You are correct but and it's an important but
Every year there is depreciation and amortisation costs, that is not in dispute
However, when the club makes a profit; let's call it bottom line profit to keep it simplistic. It has never said we've made an operating Profit of say $3mil but after deprecation & amortisation the "bottom line" profit is $800k... it is simply announced we made a $800k profit
This year for whatever reason they have decided to make the distinction which is IMV a poor way to do it because it has created unnecessary & extra noise around the number
What they should have said again IMO is "we've made a loss of $80k which includes extra amortisation costs for the new Fitness business venture at Cardinnia Shire. Doesn't try and distort the numbers just highlights and explains an increase in expenditure due to business changes
Good points WP. I too am keen to see what the full concise financials will describe, or what will be further discussed at the AGM.
FWIW, there are some worrying signs though:
Year: ....Profits........Assets/Cash
2014 .....$1.3M........29.3 M (3.8 cash)
2015 .... $0.5M........29.4 M (4.3 cash)
2016 ....$(80K)........24.1 M (2 cash)...24.1 M (2 cash)
Revenue grew 1.7% on the back of 2% growth in memberships.
There is revenue growth, as would be expected with the continued surge in member numbers. There are also some underlying concerns. Net assets decreased significantly, as did the cash balance. Simplistic analysis would suggest that there has been an increase in cash burn for expenses, but not in the acquisition of assets.
My guess is that there has been a significant write-down of some form.
Cheers
EDIT:
I have reported the wrong numbers for 2014 and 2015 in terms of asset position. The numbers above for those two years are gross asset position not net.
the correct comparison with 2016 is as follows:
Year:___Profits___Net AssetsAssets
2014 .....1.3M........23.7 M (3.8 cash)
2015 .... .5M..........24.1 M (4.3 cash)
2016 ..... (80K)......24.1 M (2 cash)
Apologies for the confusion that may have caused. Certainly not an attempt to misrepresent.
Cheers
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Sorry about the length but I am feeling the need to vent. Probably like a lot of us.
We appreciate the grammar. Rant away!
Edit: Just saw your sook at my other two replies (one not even been directed at you ::)) so I should make it clear, this post is genuine
"appreciate the grammar." ??????????????????
"Just saw your sook" ????????????????????
Diddums, give it a rest already.
I think you need to chill out man, stop trying to take issue with everything I've posted today. I was being genuine (as I clearly stated ::)) that most here are happy to read a rant especially when they use grammar (the correct way to spell it so not sure what you're trying to say). When you don't then that's when people don't care to read it
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All good agree with the above. With so many new shiny things around Punt Road the depreciation expense should be higher than past years and the amortization of costs in the Fitness Centres is also new.
Cant really be bothered actually looking at the financial statements for the past few years but I am not overly worried by a smallish loss this year when budgets would have been made on the assumption of a good year most likely with us reaching the finals.
The main thing will be that the next year budgets are worked on the lower income expectations and the club returns to a profit, which will be acceptable.....unless we make a loss for paying out Hardwick (but that would still be acceptable.....as long as someone from the Board takes responsibility and resigns.)
You're spot on with you comments about the way the budgets were most likely set
I know people are saying they can't understand how a club with 70k members and a turnover of $40+mil can make a loss and I know I made a comment a few backs about quite easily but it is actually true (doesn't make it acceptable but explainable)
But really it is simple: Example A really on the back of the on field especially the drop in crowds the bottom line is going to take a hit. You budget for say 75k-80k for a home game against the Pies and you get less than 70k your going to cop hit, a six figure one I reckon. Both games against the Bombers where we share the 2 gates, crowds way down (especially Dreamtime) again another hit.
Then you have all your expenditure forecast based on those revenues so you don't hit all your revenue targets you are going to fall short. Again, without knowing the budgeting process or having access to the final numbers I would think the costs were reigned in the 2nd half of the season when they knew they we were going to fall short. Meaning the loss is mitigated. Left unchecked the result could have been a lot worse and then we would really have something to complain about
And (again) you are spot on re your comments about budgeting for 2017. It definitely needs to be in line with lower revenue expectations than 2016. Because I think everyone is smart enough to realise that on the membership front in particular they will take a hit..how much is the question
Surely with a business the size of the RFC losing a few extra games and having the crowds down shouldn't hurt our bottom line as much as they have. We obviously should have more definite, non on field footy related ways of making money regardless of how on footy side is doing. Our sponserships for the 2016 season should have been a hell of a lot better coming off 3 finals series than they obviously were. This is clearly a board problem which is why I don't understand how they continually get a pat on the back for doing such a good job and no changes are made. God knows where we would be if were didn't make finals the previous 3 years to get our members signing up by the thousands. IMO we rely on membership and donations way to much. They should be the icing on the cake after all the other stuff.
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2017 will be even worse with a lot of members like myself not renewing. I have had enough of the club being incompetent and the blind faith has worn thin for me.
I personally don't care who is president or who is on the board but I do expect us to make money and I do expect us to improve our onfeild proformances from the last 30 odd years.
2016 has been a disgrace and IMO the club hasn't made enough changes to remedy the situation. Getting rid of assistant coaches and bring in Balme and basically making minimal changes to our list isn't going to get the job done.
I must admit I'm really peeed off at our current club and the way it's taken away my passion for supporting it. I've never in all my years been so disillusioned with the RFC.
Okay.
I really hear you and understand where you're at.
This gives me a chance to say some things which I've thought about over the last day or so.
One of my last posts was a bit overwrought but describes a similar spot to where you are at.
I believe this is one of the last chances for us members to turn things around and avoid becoming a middling club forever.
I have posted (a lot) about the various moves the board has made.
Most of these moves however really come back to how the board shapes it's "ethics".
Despite what I've posted, there is nothing inherently wrong with the Nominations Committee, Election By-Laws or constitutional amendments.
It's simply how they're used in practice to IMO subvert the members will or even allow members to participate fully.
This year we have the chance through strong board candidates to make the first move.
If Casey and Wallace remove Ryan and Dunne, I think it will send a strong message to reform the way the club operates.
With only two positions each year it may need another election or more to FORCE change.
If they do not succeed then I think we are in for more of the same, despite director limits.
The club has made moves to subtly change the footy department.
- Bringing in Balme is a good move.
- Shifting Richardson sideways can be a good move.
- Coaching changes at least show an awareness of a problem
- List Management remains a worry with lack of key players and a seeming lack of an overall list plan.
- The slight changes in Recruiting are underwhelming.
- Medical and Fitness seem to have not been improved at all.
Next season will show whether these changes are enough to shift direction or, as I suspect, fail to be enough.
Just as an aside on List Management I think we missed a huge chance to fundamentally alter our thinking.
IMO, we should have delisted Maric, Batchelor, Lambert and Butler allowing us to improve our list short-term by bringing in Barlow and Richards. A missed opportunity.
With the coaching and List changes I would like to see more empowered players, excited to be involved at the highest level, aware of the huge chance to set themselves up for life and appreciative of the benefits they have now and into the future. A big part of this will be the senior players driving this attitudinal re-set.
I would like to see us take big, strong, athletic, key players in the draft with an even greater chance to do this next year.
We will have to wait and see how the changes this year will affect next year and beyond.
If these benefits do not come with our present staff they can be moved on next year after an intensive search for alternatives.
But we have the chance this year to START the process.
Don't give up now.
Buy a membership next year and push for improvement.
If it's just more of the same then I'll be with you.
Out the door and never looking back.
Sorry about the length but I am feeling the need to vent. Probably like a lot of us.
Another great post Redan.
Join the club i have been in that place for many yrs now.
Strangly as a person who does not tolerate imbeciles and incompetence in real life i put up with it in my club.
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I wonder how many people here actually understand what amortisation and depreciation are?
It seems Gracies does.
It is also a lot harder to get convince businesses to sponsor sporting clubs than it was two years ago, and i suspect it is going to get worse before it gets better
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I wonder how many people here actually understand what amortisation and depreciation are?
It seems Gracies does.
It is also a lot harder to get convince businesses to sponsor sporting clubs than it was two years ago, and i suspect it is going to get worse before it gets better
Think you are right regarding sponsorship.
Market in Victoria now is tougher than it's every been
10 AFL clubs, 1 NRL club, 2 FFA clubs, 1 national mens basketball team, the AFL women's teams, 1 ABL team, and that's only top tier teams.
Crowded market all chasing the same thing.. tough, extremely tough
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The operating profit was actually $1.2m
The loss comes about after claiming Amortisation and Depreciation. Businesses of all sizes make these claims as legitimate tax deductions. Same as claiming laundry expenses on your tax or depreciation on your car for using it for work related matters.
Given we have up graded the buildings at Punt Road and the ground work there would be plenty of areas to claim big time on depreciation. Haven't seen the actual financial statements but suspect these areas contributed to the result.
One smallish loss after 11 years of profit does not trigger bankruptcy.
You are correct but and it's an important but
Every year there is depreciation and amortisation costs, that is not in dispute
However, when the club makes a profit; let's call it bottom line profit to keep it simplistic. It has never said we've made an operating Profit of say $3mil but after deprecation & amortisation the "bottom line" profit is $800k... it is simply announced we made a $800k profit
This year for whatever reason they have decided to make the distinction which is IMV a poor way to do it because it has created unnecessary & extra noise around the number
What they should have said again IMO is "we've made a loss of $80k which includes extra amortisation costs for the new Fitness business venture at Cardinnia Shire. Doesn't try and distort the numbers just highlights and explains an increase in expenditure due to business changes
All good agree with the above. With so many new shiny things around Punt Road the depreciation expense should be higher than past years and the amortization of costs in the Fitness Centres is also new.
Cant really be bothered actually looking at the financial statements for the past few years but I am not overly worried by a smallish loss this year when budgets would have been made on the assumption of a good year most likely with us reaching the finals.
The main thing will be that the next year budgets are worked on the lower income expectations and the club returns to a profit, which will be acceptable.....unless we make a loss for paying out Hardwick (but that would still be acceptable.....as long as someone from the Board takes responsibility and resigns.)
So lower costs to make a profit?
Where are the lower costs going to come from?
Not the non core, low margin gyms we are setting up.
Are we going to cut corners in the football dept. again?
More money in management with Balme in and Dan retained.
So perhaps it's in the Operational side - do we have the same number of development coaches ?
Are they the same calibre or experience as the competition or have we cut corners here to "save money" and retain under performing management in matters football, list and recruiting?
Sounds like a doom loop to me
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I wonder how many people here actually understand what amortisation and depreciation are?
It seems Gracies does.
It is also a lot harder to get convince businesses to sponsor sporting clubs than it was two years ago, and i suspect it is going to get worse before it gets better
Think you are right regarding sponsorship.
Market in Victoria now is tougher than it's every been
10 AFL clubs, 1 NRL club, 2 FFA clubs, 1 national mens basketball team, the AFL women's teams, 1 ABL team, and that's only top tier teams.
Crowded market all chasing the same thing.. tough, extremely tough
No one said it was easy but that is why you need the best people possible in the right positions. IMO the board has failed us coming off our most successful 3 years we have had in 30. If we were to get extra sponsorship dollars it was going to be this year. Good luck getting money out of organisations now after that proformance this year. Like you said, there are so many options for companies, why would you waste your money on a club that plays the type of unwatchable footy we play.
Heads should have rolled at the completion of this year, players, coach and board members but in reality not much has changed. After a season like 2016, to get people on board again, and that includes sponsorship dollars, you need to show that you don't except what has taken place and bring in hope and that is by change.
Getting rid of assistant coaches and a few retired players don't do much for my confidence.
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Can't disagree with that BT. People covering backsides barely even covers the cracks (pun intended)
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It's all about the board.
What a group of losers.
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It's all about the board.
What a group of losers.
Preservation of power at the expense of results and the fans
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I always knew the majority of members and supporters were dumb stuffs
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Received a copy of the full financials (not the concise report that cam with the AGM / voting stuff via a link)
Pleased to say they have detailed revenues & expenditure a lot better, broken up in more categories. Could still be improved further but a clear improvement on previous years.
MAybe they are listening or are at least reading OER ;D
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Received a copy of the full financials (not the concise report that cam with the AGM / voting stuff via a link)
Pleased to say they have detailed revenues & expenditure a lot better, broken up in more categories. Could still be improved further but a clear improvement on previous years.
MAybe they are listening or are at least reading OER ;D
I am quite sure they are and not that I am one of their drones, but there has been a steady influx of "new" users signing up in a few forums that are pretty obviously there to counter any negs. aligned to the current board and the way it "operates" ...i.e selling spin and thin air to its target audience. ;)
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Received a copy of the full financials (not the concise report that cam with the AGM / voting stuff via a link)
Pleased to say they have detailed revenues & expenditure a lot better, broken up in more categories. Could still be improved further but a clear improvement on previous years.
MAybe they are listening or are at least reading OER ;D
Maybe it's an endightment on the club that their financials are ridiculed on public forums.
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Interesting results from Collingwood......
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-23/pies-post-operating-profit-for-16th-year-in-a-row
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Received a copy of the full financials (not the concise report that cam with the AGM / voting stuff via a link)
Pleased to say they have detailed revenues & expenditure a lot better, broken up in more categories. Could still be improved further but a clear improvement on previous years.
MAybe they are listening or are at least reading OER ;D
Is there a link to the financials?
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Received a copy of the full financials (not the concise report that cam with the AGM / voting stuff via a link)
Pleased to say they have detailed revenues & expenditure a lot better, broken up in more categories. Could still be improved further but a clear improvement on previous years.
MAybe they are listening or are at least reading OER ;D
Is there a link to the financials?
Yes
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/club/about/annual-reports
And click on 2016
If you want the full financials report contact the club
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Received a copy of the full financials (not the concise report that cam with the AGM / voting stuff via a link)
Pleased to say they have detailed revenues & expenditure a lot better, broken up in more categories. Could still be improved further but a clear improvement on previous years.
MAybe they are listening or are at least reading OER ;D
Is there a link to the financials?
Yes
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/club/about/annual-reports
And click on 2016
If you want the full financials report contact the club
Thanks. A few things - still can't make out the membership and gate revenue and now they've hidden the JDF revenue in note 5