One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: JohnF on June 13, 2004, 10:31:39 PM
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Who will be saved and who will be cast off into the sea of oblivion?
In my opinion:
GONE: Marsh, Fletcher, D.Kellaway, Dragicevic, Nicholls, Blumfield, Houlihan, Rogers, Hilton, Campbell (maybe)
TRADE: Tivendale, Bowden, Fiora, Gaspar, Chaffey, Rodan (otherwise delist), Petiffer (otherwise delist)
Although this would be a drastic turnover, I would like to see Wallace go buckwild with our list. There are not many essential players at the club.
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Who will be saved and who will be cast off into the sea of oblivion?
GONE:
delisted: Marsh, Fleming, Fletcher, Dragicevic, Nicholls, Blumfield, Houlihan, Hilton. (8)
retired: Cambo?, Duncan, Rogers. (2-3)
TRADED: Gaspar, Chaffey. (2)
On the edge: Morrison, Weller, Rodan.
13 blokes turnovered is around a realistic mark I'd reckon.
I would much prefer Pagan to Wallace.
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Wouldn't get any arguments with that JohnF except for Bowden (from me).
I keep reading in posts that no more than 13 or 14 (?) changes can be made. Is so, 3 or 4 on your list would have to stay.
You get nothing for nothing so I have a feeling if we trade hard that we may lose a few players not on your list. If Wallace coaches he has already stated during commentary that some Richmond players are not up to AFL standard, naming Morrison and Schulz.
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Has the rule regarding players not being able to be traded in the 1st year of their contracts been set in concrete yet?
If it has then the following from your lists can't go anywhere I reckon:
Bowden, Tivendale, Chaffey, Rodan, Pettifer - all signed new contracts at the end of 2003
Campbell is contracted so unless he retires - he will be staying
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If Wallace coaches he has already stated during commentary that some Richmond players are not up to AFL standard, naming Morrison and Schulz.
This is exactly what worries me with Terry Wallace.
If you were 19 and spent 90% of your time sitting on the bench - I suppose the chances of looking like you are not up to AFL standard would appear but I think Schulz has the ability to be a very good player. He just needs to be played consistently and regularly to show it.
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Has the rule regarding players not being able to be traded in the 1st year of their contracts been set in concrete yet?
Bowden, Tivendale, Chaffey, Rodan, Pettifer - all signed new contracts at the end of 2003
Yes WP the Heffernan rule is in vogue now. I believe they can still be traded though. The rule states you can't trade a newly re-signed player for 12 months. Heffernan was re-signed by Essendon then a month later traded to Melbourne. So the Club can trade those guys you mention WP at the end of this season as their new contract has run 12 months.
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Yes WP the Heffernan rule is in vogue now. I believe they can still be traded though. The rule states you can't trade a newly re-signed player for 12 months. Heffernan was re-signed by Essendon then a month later traded to Melbourne. So the Club can trade those guys you mention WP at the end of this season as their new contract has run 12 months.
Hmm... that's interesting - because Rodan for one was re-signed after the trade period so technically speaking his contract will not have run 12 months come this years trade period.
I wonder if they back date the contract to when the last one expired?
And lets not forget (as was learnt last year) we may want to trade players but other Clubs have to want them and some of those listed aint going to be "wanted"
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If we do turn over say about twelve players, how many of those should be kids and how many should be guys that have already been tried? Personally, I think we should introduce about 8 new kids onto the list. The other 4 can be rejects I suppose.
MT, I'd give Fleming another year at the club. Not that I think he is any long term prospect, but I think recently he has been doing enough to justify a spot on the list for another year. Then again, I could very easily change my mind from what I see of him in the remaining ten games.
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Who will be saved and who will be cast off into the sea of oblivion?
In my opinion:
GONE: Marsh, Fletcher, D.Kellaway, Dragicevic, Nicholls, Blumfield, Houlihan, Rogers, Hilton, Campbell (maybe)
TRADE: Tivendale, Bowden, Fiora, Gaspar, Chaffey, Rodan (otherwise delist), Petiffer (otherwise delist)
Although this would be a drastic turnover, I would like to see Wallace go buckwild with our list. There are not many essential players at the club.
spot on with your call JohnF
if rodan's contract expires end of next year then trade him, hopefully we can trick someone in getting at most a draft pick from him.
Campbell, play excellent yesterday, I have been calling for his head over the past weeks, its a real shame he ran out of steam in the last quarter.
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Gone- Hutchinson, Britain,Spargo,Crocker, Oppie(Team Manager ) Noel Duncan,Weighman,Frawley,Hornsby(Runner) he cost us an adition $5000 as well so he might as well stuff off too
In- Wallace !
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lmfaooo star, don't forget Casey, Beck and Mithen ;D.
I wouldn't mind having Wallace as coach and Eade as an assistant. At least we wouldn't be getting recommended the Fletchers of the world.
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Hey John, talking about the fletchers of this world.
Cop this.
Britain responsible for Fletcher and Fleming/
Miller for Weller and Morrison.
All four are retards , dont you think ?
Shouldnt be on any AFL list but they find there way to Tigerland.lol
No wonder we are HOPELESS !
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Britain responsible for Fletcher and Fleming/
Miller for Weller and Morrison.
All four are retards , dont you think ?
Listen mate.. For starters i would take weller and morrison over fletcher and fleming anyday. Both weller and morrison are pretty good players just need oppurtunity. Weller was playing pretty good footy till he did his hamstring and Morrison well how good was he preseason and the first few games before the melbourne winter set in??
Believe me its a huge differnet coming from sunny queensland to cold melbourne. Morrison and weller have been living in queensland there whole lives and are adapting to a new environment. I would hate to see them go. Both are very hard at the ball and pretty good kicks and train well which sets the tone to our young players.
I am living on the goldcoast at the moment and have been for 6 years but i am originally from melbourne so i know how cold it gets. After 6 years up here i went back last year and it wasnt even winter and it was bloody freezing. So imagine a winter. Just give them time. Put morrison down back. He has played there most of his career but he MADE himself into a forward. Just take him back there.
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I think Weller if very very slow and as for Morrison, seen enough of him at Coburg (VFL Level) to say he isnt going to make it and a complete waste of a draft pick !
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Here here Jackster.
Under the Miller reign we have picked up Fleming, Nichols, Fletcher, Weller, Morrison and Marsh in only 2 years. None of whom IMO will be part of our immediate future.
I question Millers eye for talent when he gives such players the tick. The first time I saw Weller play in the wiz cup game against the bulldogs I knew he was a complete lemon. The guy can't even run !!
Morrison - they didn't even know how tall he was before drafting him for crying out loud....there is no way he can ever be a dominant CHF with his stature. Another wasted draft pick !!
People are hailing Miller as the saviour - I have my doubts.
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Yes, forgot about Marsh, another waste of space !
You right about Miller I would think, back to the Hammerheads for Greg. ;)
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well look at the bright side guys- without these lemons we wouldnt be in with a chance of a priority pick this season. Lets hope they keep it nice and simple with the early picks...just select the best available...come on down- lance franklin and fabian deluca!
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Dont forget Adam Pickering while on the Carlton scrapheap topic.Come to think of it,has any good come from the appointment of Brittain?We get murdered from midfield even when we are winning tap outs.
Next season l really dont mind who goes bar 3-4 players.
If we HAVE to go down the rejects road again,please make them youngish players and not old hacks like sziller/fletcher ect.Give us some pace too FFS.
As soon as the weather cleared up on Sunday l feared the Dockers would start to run us off our feet.
We must delist Marsh,Hilton,Rogers,Kellaway,Nicholls,Fletcher,Fleming.
Listen to offers for absolutely anyone bar Cogs and Brown.
We need 2 blokes to introduce the new board,the new recruiting staff,fitness staff and half the playing list to each other!
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come on down- lance franklin and fabian deluca!
Are these guys good? I think they are both KP players we should choose a ruckman which is deluca and also another young midfield i think. Unless gilmour and raines really step up i dont know. What you guys recken we should get with our priority picks?
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Under the Miller reign we have picked up Fleming, Nichols, Fletcher, Weller, Morrison and Marsh in only 2 years. None of whom IMO will be part of our immediate future.
Apart from maybe Weller and Morrison, I doubt that the others were looked on as long-term prospects. Probably more “filling in the gaps” until the younger players come through.
It hasn’t worked out, so it’s looked on as a bad way to go about things. Under different circumstances, it may have worked out better, but it seems the wrong way to have gone about it now. The thing is, we can’t get anything decent out of our “good” players, so why we would expect “fringe” players to make an impact is beyond me.
People are hailing Miller as the saviour - I have my doubts.
You could be right HH, but right now he’s the closest thing we’ve got to any “football nous” at the Club. How worse off could we be without him?
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I understand what you are saying in regards to "filling in the gaps" but what gaps were they trying to fill ? The gap between 8th and 10th ?
That's been the problem with the whole football club. They are not sure about what direction they should be heading. Which club in their right mind that has been consistently finishing 9th would recruit players like Fleming, Nichols, Fletcher, Marsh etc. ? Recruiting mature aged average players to me says that they are doing all they can to hang onto 9th spot !!
As for Morrison and Weller - I beleive this is a weak reruiting effort. The club didn't even know how tall Morrison was FFS !! There is no way he can hold down a CHF in the VFL. Why was he recruited. Weller is just way too slow to play any level of football. Also pathetic skills. I ask the question - did Miller even see these players before he drafted them ? Did he at least see them at training ? Because if he did then I question his eye for talent. If he didn't then it was negligent of him.
I can only judge Miller on his recruiting so far.
Weller, Morrison, Fletcher, Marsh, Fleming, Nichols and Pickering are negatives to his name so far.
Johnson and Brown - people will say these are positives but I will beg to differ as we need to be rebuilding and not topping the list at the expense of numerous valuable early picks.
The kids - besides Schulz, Hartigan and to a lesser extent Roach and Foley, the rest are very speculative so far and really haven't shown much.
I'm glad we've recruited a heap of kids last year, but Miller has placed alot of faith in his ability to spot talent in the low aged speculative kids. Unless these kids develop into very good players, Miller will have taken the club back even further.
Overall I would rate his performance so far as 5 out of 10 at best .
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What about Jackson - HarryH?
I think he shows a lot and will be a gun.
Granted he didn't get much time on Saturday but in the last quarter he stood out amongst the Richmond listed players I reckon
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Yeah Jackson looked OK - I liked his attack on the ball in a couple of marking contests.
Another thing I'm not happy about (I'm not in a good mood today) is the lack of game time the young rookies are getting at Coburg. David Flood is going down the same track as Frawley in keeping the kids on the bench most of the game and then playing them in the foward pocket when given minimal game time.
Not good enough and I will be sending the club an email regarding this !!
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I understand what you are saying in regards to "filling in the gaps" but what gaps were they trying to fill ? The gap between 8th and 10th ?
That's been the problem with the whole football club. They are not sure about what direction they should be heading. Which club in their right mind that has been consistently finishing 9th would recruit players like Fleming, Nichols, Fletcher, Marsh etc. ? Recruiting mature aged average players to me says that they are doing all they can to hang onto 9th spot !!
I’ve gone past trying to defend them HH. I was just trying to explain their reasoning. I’m with you on this and also think we’ve set ourselves back for sure. From what they have said, it was all about being competitive while bringing the younger players through. It hasn’t worked out that way, if anything it has backfired badly.
As for Morrison and Weller - I beleive this is a weak reruiting effort. The club didn't even know how tall Morrison was FFS !! There is no way he can hold down a CHF in the VFL. Why was he recruited. Weller is just way too slow to play any level of football. Also pathetic skills. I ask the question - did Miller even see these players before he drafted them ? Did he at least see them at training ? Because if he did then I question his eye for talent. If he didn't then it was negligent of him.
From what we have seen in the seniors and also what we saw on the weekend, your assessment seems on the mark.
I can only judge Miller on his recruiting so far.
Weller, Morrison, Fletcher, Marsh, Fleming, Nichols and Pickering are negatives to his name so far.
Johnson and Brown - people will say these are positives but I will beg to differ as we need to be rebuilding and not topping the list at the expense of numerous valuable early picks.
I agree with you that we need to re-build. But the positive of having these two is that they raise the standards for those around them. Our coaching staff don’t seem capable of doing that, so at least we can have some players who can show the way, in some respects. Under a better set up, it wouldn’t be so vital to have experienced players from other Clubs topping up our list. It probably says something about the confidence the coaching staff have in their ability to develop players.
The kids - besides Schulz, Hartigan and to a lesser extent Roach and Foley, the rest are very speculative so far and really haven't shown much.
I'm glad we've recruited a heap of kids last year, but Miller has placed alot of faith in his ability to spot talent in the low aged speculative kids. Unless these kids develop into very good players, Miller will have taken the club back even further.
That’s the same for every Club, I would think HH. Our ability to develop players will no doubt determine the success or otherwise of our recruiting. And we all know that unless big changes are made, the likelihood of that happening is minimal.
Overall I would rate his performance so far as 5 out of 10 at best .
Understandable rating HH.
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I bet Ben Holland is laughing at Richmond now, with Melbourne being third on the ladder.
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I bet Ben Holland is laughing at Richmond now, with Melbourne being third on the ladder.
and the Tigers paying some of his salary ::)
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I bet Ben Holland is laughing at Richmond now, with Melbourne being third on the ladder.
He's only a fringe player at the demons and a SLOW one at that. Looks like he'll get dropped this week. As dumb a decision it was to put him on a long-term and $$$ contract after only one good year for us (thanks Brayshaw!), it was a smart move to offload him. If Holland had stayed we would be paying double what we are now for him and getting about the same amount of return from him as we do now.
I'd reckon Gas depending on what West Coast and Freo do is in danger of being similarly traded this year. Especially if we are to reduce our TPP to 97% of the salary cap.
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If i was down at punt road this year i would be playing for priority picks definatly.
But this is what i think we need to look for with list wise.
Pickups- John Baird+ Corey Jones for Ty Zantuck+Rory Hilton
- Adam Hunter+a 2nd Round Pick for Darren Gasper+ Mark Chaffey
- Steve Johnson for a 3rd round pick.
All these guys i like and i beleive have ability and would help out richmond. Steve johnson for instance. Now that geelnog have a big forawrd line and lots of options he isnt getting a game and he is very skilled and kicked like 30 goals last year and is still young which is good.
Delist- Houlihan,Nicholls,Fletcher,
Retire- Rogers, D.Kellaway
Plus with the improvement from hartigan,schultz and tuck this would be the team for next year
B: Newman Hall Pettifer
HB: Hunter Baird Campbell
C: Tivendale Johnson(c) Bowden
HF: Krakouer Schultz Blumfield
FF: Jones Richo S.Johnson
Foll: Ottens Brown(vc) Coughlan
Int: Hyde Tuck Stafford Fiora
Emg: Fleming, Weller, Morrison
Hall to get best forward every week and hunter and baird for other tall options. The development of pettifer should stay down back for another year. Schultz to be our main CHF.
There would also be the players that we picked up in teh draft plus the other guys that cant get a game competing for a spot in the magoos. Cant wait till we unveil our Number 1 and 2 draft picks ;D
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Wrenny remember our 3rd round pick is for the father-son rule. Unless we trade for another 3rd round pick then we need to keep on hold to it.
I have no problem with the players you've chosen as trade bait (Rory wouldn't have any value though) but we have to stop trading for other sides left overs. If these guys can't get a game at the Club they are at now then most likely they will be no better than what we already have and won't improve our list.
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Tell me about Kym Monteath somebody please ?
I've heard good things but nothing concrete.
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Tell me about Kym Monteath somebody please ?
I've heard good things but nothing concrete.
Like you Ox nothing concrete. All I know is he plays with the East Fremantle Colts, is an onballer (don't know his size) with big wraps on him but injured his shoulder back in April when B.O.G. and hasn't played since. He's been quoted in the WA press that he wants to play for the Tiges but won't be available to be picked up until the 2005 draft.
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Kym Monteath was named in the best for East Freo Colts this week. Was also in the best players two weeks back.
Peel Thunder 2.3 5.3 8.4 12.5 (77)
East Fremantle 1.0 5.4 6.5 9.11 (65)
East Fremantle
Goals: Monteath 2, Power 2, Websdale, Miller, Taylor, McRobb 1
Best: Sewell, Monteath, Power, Wood
http://www.wafl.com.au/default.asp?pg=results&tournamentid=349
He'll be available for the AFL draft next year.
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We shoul grab the kid if we gat the chance.
Bruce was a champion,far better than Clokey IMO,
so i would prefer Kym,genetically speaking, over one of the 3 egotistical Cloke stooges.
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We shoul grab the kid if we gat the chance.
He's stated publicly a while back he wants to play for Richmond. We'll be able to pick him up under the F/S rule in the 2005 National draft.
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what possie does monteath play?
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He's stated publicly a while back he wants to play for Richmond. We'll be able to pick him up under the F/S rule in the 2005 National draft.
And Bruce has been a guest at the last 2 Tommy Hafey Club Luncheons - looks like a bit of "wooing" to me ;)
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what possie does monteath play?
I heard he was a full forward in the making.
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GONE: Marsh, Fletcher, D.Kellaway, Dragicevic, Nicholls, Blumfield, Houlihan, Rogers, Hilton, Campbell (maybe)
With everyone pretty much in agreement that these guys are duds, and should be gone in the next delistings, makes you wonder why the club still continue with this policy of hacks from other clubs. Marsh, Fletcher, Morrison and Weller have added nothing to our depth this year. All they've done is increase the depth of the "to get rid of players".
Why can't they go for kids? Where is the long term future in recycling players that can't make it at other clubs, when we could be going for draft picks or up and coming kids who've played up to 50 games and show some sort of future.
As I've said on BigFooty, drafting Brown was silly IMHO - he won't be there when and if we make the finals again. it'll take that long to build up a decent list.
The policy has also put pressure on the likes of Duncan Kellaway with fans (such as myself) bagging the crap out of him for continuing to stay on, when if the club had managed the list well, there wouldn't have been the pressure on him from fans to retire. When you've got so many duds on your list that you want to get rid of, and you have a former club champ constantly injured, and really, not quite up to it any more, pure frustration means you take it out on him.
The criticism of Dunc wouldn't have been made IMHO if we could have seen a decent recruiting policy of drafting kids where we could see some sort of future.
HOpe you understand what I'm getting at because i'm struggling to put into words lol.
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what possie does monteath play?
I heard he was a full forward in the making.
you heard wrong
he is on onballer / roving forward flanker, he has been back for the past 3 weeks at East Freo now and making excellent progress, all i know is he is a bit shorter than his older brother Rhys but hey he is only still a kid with plenty of growing to do.
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what possie does monteath play?
I heard he was a full forward in the making.
you heard wrong
he is on onballer / roving forward flanker, he has been back for the past 3 weeks at East Freo now and making excellent progress, all i know is he is a bit shorter than his older brother Rhys but hey he is only still a kid with plenty of growing to do.
Sorry bro, got this information via Damian Streets (a.k.a. Weaver) - fairly well respected Richmond fan and watcher of under 18 matches. Is this not right?
>And is young Monteath worth a F/S pick?
I think he is too young this year. Haven't actually seen his DOB but I
think he will be still under-18 next year.
He is a 185cm-ish full forward which is too short and he will need to
either grow or develop into a midfielder.
Due to a shoulder injury he missed most of this season and with only 2
games or so back in the Colts he did not make the WA under-18 team. A good
player really should have because the WA juniors have very little height
this year.
Cheers.