One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on October 03, 2019, 01:03:25 AM
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Tiger greats: Has Jack gone past Richo?
Herald Sun
October 3, 2019
When it comes to modern Richmond heroes, Matthew Richardson is in a league of his own.
Richardson carried the hopes of the Tiger faithful for 16 tough years, kicking 800 goals but playing in just three finals, for one win.
Jack Riewoldt has to kick another 170 goals to surpass Richardson, but he now has two pieces of silverware Richo could only dream of after playing in his second premiership last Saturday, booting five goals against GWS including three in a game-breaking second quarter.
Riewoldt has won Richmond’s goalkicking nine times, Richardson won it 13 times. Both have been selected in three All-Australian teams, Jack has two Jack Dyer Medals to Richo’s one.
Richardson never won the Coleman Medal — a trophy Riewoldt has pocketed three times — although he did boot 91 goals in 1996 when he was pipped by Tony Lockett’s 114 majors. Riewoldt’s season-best is 78 goals in 2010.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/superfooty-podcast-join-jon-anderson-brian-taylor-and-lauren-wood-as-they-debate-footys-biggest-issues/news-story/237b1084e1e487d7359783cc5c100d2b
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Jack is our greatest forward ever.
But Richo was more entertaining.
:cheers
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Richo was more like Lynch, often had 5 blokes hanging off of him as he took a mark.
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Richo then everyone else...
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^
Richo would have kicked 1000+ at absolute minimum if we weren't such a rabble in his playing days.
Think people forget just how much of a stuff he was.
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Jack for me, Richo was not as great a team man imho
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I’m gonna say:-
Richo better than Jack - simply put, swap them and ask yourself who would have the better record?
I reckon Jack has gone past his cousin
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Different type of greats.
Jack won us success and probably will go down as a better complete forward.
Richo brought me to the footy when nothing else would and did things than only Richo could.
Stupid to compare but clearly Jack will have a better forward resume.
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Jack is a much "neater" footballer - a smarter footballer.
There's no question who's a better kick for goal.
Richo was more physically imposing.
Young Richo was reminiscent of a Noah Balta.
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Different type of greats.
Jack won us success and probably will go down as a better complete forward.
Richo brought me to the footy when nothing else would and did things than only Richo could.
Stupid to compare but clearly Jack will have a better forward resume.
What's a forward resume?
Average per game over their careers
Richo Jack
10.9 Kicks 9.4
3.1 Handballs 3.1
14.0 Disposals 12.5
8.0 Marks 5.5
2.8 Goals 2.4
2.0 Behinds 1.4
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I think a more interesting question is who would trouble our defence ( including Rance) more - Jack or Richo ??
Richo might require both Rance and Grimes.
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:shh
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Richo a better forward, Jack a better player.
End of discussion!
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Different type of greats.
Jack won us success and probably will go down as a better complete forward.
Richo brought me to the footy when nothing else would and did things than only Richo could.
Stupid to compare but clearly Jack will have a better forward resume.
What's a forward resume?
Average per game over their careers
Richo Jack
10.9 Kicks 9.4
3.1 Handballs 3.1
14.0 Disposals 12.5
8.0 Marks 5.5
2.8 Goals 2.4
2.0 Behinds 1.4
How do they compare with goal assists? :shh
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Richo a better forward, Jack a better player.
End of discussion!
Richo a better player too. Team is just so much better then when richo played.
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Me and my Tiger mates had this discussion earlier in the year.
Jack for me.
It’s as simple as if I was picking a side who would I pick first Jack or Richo (both at their prime)
Jack easily for all round game imo.
I love Richo but it’s no coincidence Jack’s leadership and selflessness have been massive in getting this great club 2 premierships in 3 years.... and counting.
Bloody love them both but Jack has brought me much more happiness without a doubt.
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Geez people have forgotten about the great richo man. Can any tell me exactly what this “overall game” or “all round game” is defined as? Jack R is a champion and has been with Buddy the best forward of the past decade but I can’t think of one thing except for goal kicking accuracy that he has over richo.
Richo played for the most part in a much worse team and kicked more goals. He is one of if not the best contested mark of all time. And to top it off nearly won a Brownlow playing on the wing. I’d say dominating over 2 field lines makes richo the better “all round” player....
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Geez people have forgotten about the great richo man. Can any tell me exactly what this “overall game” or “all round game” is defined as? Jack R is a champion and has been with Buddy the best forward of the past decade but I can’t think of one thing except for goal kicking accuracy that he has over richo.
Richo played for the most part in a much worse team and kicked more goals. He is one of if not the best contested mark of all time. And to top it off nearly won a Brownlow playing on the wing. I’d say dominating over 2 field lines makes richo the better “all round” player....
All round game means-
-better footy brain
-better below his knees
-better leader
-better kick at goal
-better field kick
-better in the wet
-better at bringing other players into the game
-more agile
-more tricks
-more versatile
and that’s off the top of my head
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Geez people have forgotten about the great richo man. Can any tell me exactly what this “overall game” or “all round game” is defined as? Jack R is a champion and has been with Buddy the best forward of the past decade but I can’t think of one thing except for goal kicking accuracy that he has over richo.
Richo played for the most part in a much worse team and kicked more goals. He is one of if not the best contested mark of all time. And to top it off nearly won a Brownlow playing on the wing. I’d say dominating over 2 field lines makes richo the better “all round” player....
Disagree.
Jack’s footy IQ is so far ahead of Richo, it’s not funny. Love Richo but if I had to pick someone to play for my life, it would be Jack.
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Richo for me. He had some shocking coaches and we got to see how good of an all round footballer he could be when played on the wing. I think if we saw more of that before his body gave up we would see him do around the ground stuff that Jack does. And not to mention his contested marking was out of this world. Would rather jack take a set shot if my life depended on it though
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Geez people have forgotten about the great richo man. Can any tell me exactly what this “overall game” or “all round game” is defined as? Jack R is a champion and has been with Buddy the best forward of the past decade but I can’t think of one thing except for goal kicking accuracy that he has over richo.
Richo played for the most part in a much worse team and kicked more goals. He is one of if not the best contested mark of all time. And to top it off nearly won a Brownlow playing on the wing. I’d say dominating over 2 field lines makes richo the better “all round” player....
All round game means-
-better footy brain
-better below his knees
-better leader
-better kick at goal
-better field kick
-better in the wet
-better at bringing other players into the game
-more agile
-more tricks
-more versatile
and that’s off the top of my head
Sounds like Rick was a dud compared to Jack.
I don't agree with a number of those things.
More versatile? No, Jack has not ever and will not ever play anywhere but the forward line. As TK said, Richo nearly won a Brownlow from the wing. Sure Jack can play different roles within a forward set up...but I think Cho could hold down FF, CHF and the wing with ease which makes him a versatile player.
Better below his knees? I guess, but neither are crumbing forwards so really, who actually gives a stuff?
Better in the wet? Dunno if the there is any data on that but I've seen both kicks bags in the wet.
More agile? Not even slightly. Fairly similar in that area towards the end of their careers, first 6-8 years of the Cho and his agility had Jack covered however.
Speed is a no contest - that's Cho. Bloke was a stuff athlete.
Seriously, you blokes need to go back and watch Richo's 2008 season. He kicked 50 odd from the wing, was getting back to take marks in the defensive 50 like Benny Gale used to, he was a constant bail out kick for us...quite often pulling in huge grabs and dishing off to the runners. One of the best seasons I have seen a Richmond player have.
If he were in our side now in place of say Tom Lynch, I honestly reckon he'd kick a bare minimum of 80 per season. Or any top side with a good forward structure.....he never had that in his entire career at the Tiges bar one season.
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Cho in this team would have been amazing ..
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Cho in this team would have been amazing ..
Yeah, lets not forget that we get the absolute best out of every one of our players in the current team.
To say that players never achieved their potentials during the 90s/00s is probably an understatement.
Richo was the better pure footballer, but I agree with Jack's footy IQ being stronger. Also a much more polished player.
But Richo was the greatest contested mark I've ever seen. Such a shame we never got to see how good he could have been if played 10 years later...
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Geez people have forgotten about the great richo man. Can any tell me exactly what this “overall game” or “all round game” is defined as? Jack R is a champion and has been with Buddy the best forward of the past decade but I can’t think of one thing except for goal kicking accuracy that he has over richo.
Richo played for the most part in a much worse team and kicked more goals. He is one of if not the best contested mark of all time. And to top it off nearly won a Brownlow playing on the wing. I’d say dominating over 2 field lines makes richo the better “all round” player....
All round game means-
-better footy brain
-better below his knees
-better leader
-better kick at goal
-better field kick
-better in the wet
-better at bringing other players into the game
-more agile
-more tricks
-more versatile
and that’s off the top of my head
Sounds like Rick was a dud compared to Jack.
I don't agree with a number of those things.
More versatile? No, Jack has not ever and will not ever play anywhere but the forward line. As TK said, Richo nearly won a Brownlow from the wing. Sure Jack can play different roles within a forward set up...but I think Cho could hold down FF, CHF and the wing with ease which makes him a versatile player.
Better below his knees? I guess, but neither are crumbing forwards so really, who actually gives a stuff?
Better in the wet? Dunno if the there is any data on that but I've seen both kicks bags in the wet.
More agile? Not even slightly. Fairly similar in that area towards the end of their careers, first 6-8 years of the Cho and his agility had Jack covered however.
Speed is a no contest - that's Cho. Bloke was a stuff athlete.
Seriously, you blokes need to go back and watch Richo's 2008 season. He kicked 50 odd from the wing, was getting back to take marks in the defensive 50 like Benny Gale used to, he was a constant bail out kick for us...quite often pulling in huge grabs and dishing off to the runners. One of the best seasons I have seen a Richmond player have.
If he were in our side now in place of say Tom Lynch, I honestly reckon he'd kick a bare minimum of 80 per season. Or any top side with a good forward structure.....he never had that in his entire career at the Tiges bar one season.
Instead of Richo replacing Lynch, Richo replacing Jack at the same age.
Now that there is a fair comparison in a good side I have no doubt Richo would come out the better or the two.
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I think a lot of people forget how good Richo was, but he was a different sort of player, Jack has his own special tricks and an raw tenacity and will to win, which I love as well.
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Geez people have forgotten about the great richo man. Can any tell me exactly what this “overall game” or “all round game” is defined as? Jack R is a champion and has been with Buddy the best forward of the past decade but I can’t think of one thing except for goal kicking accuracy that he has over richo.
Richo played for the most part in a much worse team and kicked more goals. He is one of if not the best contested mark of all time. And to top it off nearly won a Brownlow playing on the wing. I’d say dominating over 2 field lines makes richo the better “all round” player....
All round game means-
-better footy brain
-better below his knees
-better leader
-better kick at goal
-better field kick
-better in the wet
-better at bringing other players into the game
-more agile
-more tricks
-more versatile
and that’s off the top of my head
Sounds like Rick was a dud compared to Jack.
I don't agree with a number of those things.
More versatile? No, Jack has not ever and will not ever play anywhere but the forward line. As TK said, Richo nearly won a Brownlow from the wing. Sure Jack can play different roles within a forward set up...but I think Cho could hold down FF, CHF and the wing with ease which makes him a versatile player.
Better below his knees? I guess, but neither are crumbing forwards so really, who actually gives a stuff?
Better in the wet? Dunno if the there is any data on that but I've seen both kicks bags in the wet.
More agile? Not even slightly. Fairly similar in that area towards the end of their careers, first 6-8 years of the Cho and his agility had Jack covered however.
Speed is a no contest - that's Cho. Bloke was a stuff athlete.
Seriously, you blokes need to go back and watch Richo's 2008 season. He kicked 50 odd from the wing, was getting back to take marks in the defensive 50 like Benny Gale used to, he was a constant bail out kick for us...quite often pulling in huge grabs and dishing off to the runners. One of the best seasons I have seen a Richmond player have.
If he were in our side now in place of say Tom Lynch, I honestly reckon he'd kick a bare minimum of 80 per season. Or any top side with a good forward structure.....he never had that in his entire career at the Tiges bar one season.
Richo was a star and probably my favourite Tiger ever but he had flaws!
I don’t agree with pretty much all of your stuff above but that seems about right with us.
Jack could play anywhere on the ground and still be one of our best players IMO.
He reads the ball better than almost anyone in the AFL and sees things happening before most.
That tap to Dusty in the marking contest against 3 Geelong opponents in the final was what only a bare few could see let alone do.
Jack is as versatile a player we have on our list.
Below his knees, you say who cares but I reckon it’s only because it doesn’t suit your argument.
Jack kicks half his goals from ground ball footy and in today’s game with flooding and zones, there isn’t as many lead, mark, kick goals as there used to be.
Jack is as good on the ground as in the air and when opposition play a key defender on Jack to stop him marking the footy we know he will most likely destroy them when the footy hits the ground.
Better in the wet- like above when the ball is wet and on the ground a lot, Jack is still as dangerous as ever. Mostly because he thinks quicker than most but also because he barely fumbles.
A couple of wet Port Adelaide games come to mind when Jack has shown how damaging a 195cm key forward can still be in the wet.
Richo was as good as you’ll see in the air but he certainly wasn’t great when the footy was on the ground and wet.
More agile for me meant Jack can turn and weave and avoid players better than Richo.
Richo is by far a better athlete than Jack, but if Richo was on a lead and didn’t take the grab, he was basically out of the contest. (sometimes to busy waving his arms and abusing the kicker- and rightly so most of the time)
Jack seems like he tackles more too, I haven’t looked at the stats and the game has changed heaps, but Jack is a fantastic tackler and genuinely wants to tackle when he can- unlike some others who just look like they want to tackle- Bellis the biggest culprit ever.
Then you mention speed which wasn’t one of mine but I 100% agree with you on speed.
Richo was a really gifted athlete... and footballer.... and like I said probably my favourite of all time... but...
But after all of that, if you were to chose now who you take first to win our next premiership, who do you take??
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Jack doesn’t kick the goal it’s not the end of the world
Richo had the whole world on his back every time he lined up, that sort of pressure week in week out as he had no help.
Also in Richo’s day delivery inside 50 was putrid but it didn’t stop him running jumping and diving to take more marks than any other player in the league it’s just sometimes that type of mediocre delivery sometimes made him lose his crap. Richo Worked his arse off to present as a forward most opposition players remarked how much ground he covered in a game.
I’d think if you’d swap them, both would still be great players but with this team Richo would be more devastating than Jack is now but It’s still a very close race.
Jack is one of the smartest football players i have ever seen and the ultimate team player but Richo was a unique talent, even with all his flaws he did make you want to go to the footy.
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Jack doesn’t kick the goal it’s not the end of the world
Richo had the whole world on his back every time he lined up, that sort of pressure week in week out as he had no help.
Also in Richo’s day delivery inside 50 was putrid but it didn’t stop him running jumping and diving to take more marks than any other player in the league it’s just sometimes that type of mediocre delivery sometimes made him lose his crap. Richo Worked his arse off to present as a forward most opposition players remarked how much ground he covered in a game.
I’d think if you’d swap them, both would still be great players but with this team Richo would be more devastating than Jack is now but It’s still a very close race.
Jack is one of the smartest football players i have ever seen and the ultimate team player but Richo was a unique talent, even with all his flaws he did make you want to go to the footy.
Have you forgotten how bad we were?
Jack played in some really ordinary sides early on too.
Ben Nason ring a bell?
We were compared to Fitzroy FFS.
The one thing Richo did do is bring us suffering Tigers supporters to games.
A shining light and an out and out star.
But I would pick Jack if I was picking a side to win a premiership.
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Jack doesn’t kick the goal it’s not the end of the world
Richo had the whole world on his back every time he lined up, that sort of pressure week in week out as he had no help.
Also in Richo’s day delivery inside 50 was putrid but it didn’t stop him running jumping and diving to take more marks than any other player in the league it’s just sometimes that type of mediocre delivery sometimes made him lose his crap. Richo Worked his arse off to present as a forward most opposition players remarked how much ground he covered in a game.
I’d think if you’d swap them, both would still be great players but with this team Richo would be more devastating than Jack is now but It’s still a very close race.
Jack is one of the smartest football players i have ever seen and the ultimate team player but Richo was a unique talent, even with all his flaws he did make you want to go to the footy.
Have you forgotten how bad we were?
Jack played in some really ordinary sides early on too.
Ben Nason ring a bell?
We were compared to Fitzroy FFS.
The one thing Richo did do is bring us suffering Tigers supporters to games.
A shining light and an out and out star.
But I would pick Jack if I was picking a side to win a premiership.
No I haven’t forgotten how bad we were.
It’s a stupid argument really as both are stars of the game. With our current team Richo would kick more goals than what Jack has and he’d definitely take more contested marks probably get more free kicks with the no arm chopping rule now.
Jack is an absolute star as he brings others around him into the game as he’s a step ahead of the play and reads it like no other player we’ve ever seen.
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Nup.
Richo in front by any straight you care to mention.
Jack at Roachy’s level, those two neck and neck.
Royce shades Richo, but a fair gap to those following.
Message to our recruiting team. Get down to Tassie and start looking for the next one.
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Some very strong opinions here one way and the other.
Both champions with strengths and weaknesses in different areas. So in the end it just depends how each person values those things.
For me, Jack's footy IQ and the ability to create goals for others together with his left foot skills are more important than Richo's unbelievable contested marking and athleticism. Other's obviously value the latter more.
Both are our boys though and Richmond men through and through. :clapping