One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on November 03, 2021, 04:30:56 PM
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Richmond’s strength and conditioning coach Luke Meehan's approach to strength and conditioning and how it's taken the Tigers to new heights.
Listen here: https://omny.fm/shows/the-inside-game/richmond-strength-and-conditioning-coach-luke-meeh
This week’s episode guide…
2:55 – What is strength and conditioning?
05:45 – How Luke optimises players' strengths
06:30 – Luke's favourite part about working at Richmond
07:43 – How Covid impacted Richmond’s 2020 and 2021 plans
09:45 – How Richmond's hub gym set-up gave them an edge
13:15 – Luke's contribution to Richmond’s incredible success
15:10 – How Luke helped Dustin Martin win a Brownlow Medal
16:23 – Tapping into different players' strength and conditioning needs
17:28 – Takeaway Tips, fuelled by the John West Protein Plus range
18:31 – Why Luke's allegiances are almost torn
19:24 – Quick Hands: Which player has benched the highest weight? Who's the biggest gym pest?
https://www.womens.afl/news/75623
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Having a few chats today with our regular Tiger crew.
It's been widely spoken about the disappointment of our conditioning program this year. Multiple soft tissue injuries, Vlastuin, Balta, Prestia, Lynch, Grimes, Graham, Dusty, KMac, Cotchin, (Nank?). That's an enormous amount.
Add the pattern of us losing close ones. Our efforts in the last minute after going behind to Lions was at best matches by Brisbane. Which makes me think how much a factor our fitness and conditioning had on the multiple close finishes. And in turn how much of an enormous impact it had with our success this year.
Our game style is chaotic and requires elite fitness, which we clearly didn't have so our best at least defensively and pressure wise wasn't as good as it needed to be, it caused our best players to be injured and miss footy and when we needed to call on extra reserves in player fitness to win clutch moments we weren't at the required level.
This for me is the biggest need going forward if we want to improve for 2023. We can say Richmond killing Richmond but the biggest need is clear as day and that's significantly improving our fitness and conditioning area. Thoughts?
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I posted on another thread (2022 reflections I think it is) that the single biggest and most crucial appointment at the RFC is that of the High Performance Manager
We dropped the ball on this; this year as the soft tissue injuries proved.
Did they not adjust to our cater for the older bodies? I don't know
But that players did hamstrings and a nu,ber of them came back and then did them again tells me we failed on this area
We have to get the Burge replacement right
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Who replaced Inness? Surely someone did.
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Who replaced Inness? Surely someone did.
I thought his role sort of merged with Burgess. So no, not replaced.
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Who replaced Inness? Surely someone did.
I thought his role sort of merged with Burgess. So no, not replaced.
Merge, Don’t replace same crap. Fancy not finding a replacement for Inness. Burge hasn’t had his mind on the job either knowing he was leaving a fair while ago.
I will wait until WP confirms. If true as I suspect it is, then that is exactly what we are banging on about with this soft cap rubbish.
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Who replaced Inness? Surely someone did.
I thought his role sort of merged with Burgess. So no, not replaced.
Merge, Don’t replace same crap. Fancy not finding a replacement for Inness. Burge hasn’t had his mind on the job either knowing he was leaving a fair while ago.
I will wait until WP confirms. If true as I suspect it is, then that is exactly what we are banging on about with this soft cap rubbish.
Nah nah the soft cap is the scary beast that stops us from retaining the very same people other clubs can afford and the scary afl will fine us if we spend too much blah blah.
- Rob Innes is at Richmond we were a well oiled machine able to pressure sides into submission for four quarters.
- Rob Innes leaves Richmond because we can’t afford him because of the soft cap
- Rob Innes is appointed head of fitness for Sydney fc because they don’t seem to have the same concerns with soft cap that only Richmond seem to have.
- Now Sydney fc are a well oiled machine that is able to pressure teams into submission for four quarters.
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Innes may have just been offered a better deal, other than money.
It happens when you are successful. Just need to find someone good to replace him as Burge clearly hasn't worked and thankfully he's off too.
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Maybe we just offer Innes an opportunity to come back to us by offering the top job with better pay?
What’s wrong with that? Get a high performance manger that knows us and we know him even if we are willing to pay a little more for him to get him over the line.
But the soft cap :banghead :help :banghead
I tell you what, let’s not spend any money in our footy department and I’ll come down to punt road and tell the blokes how to kick and handpass and I’ll teach them how to train and what to eat and what not to eat and they can be saved by the bad terrible soft cap boogie man that no other club, including the hapless Kangeroos, cares a less about. :rollin
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Is the footy department spend revealed in the annual reports or elsewhere?
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Is the footy department spend revealed in the annual reports or elsewhere?
Football operations expenditure:
2021 $23,428,622
2020 $23,568,283
2019 $28,369,319
2018 $27,212,594
Sources:
Page 16: https://resources.richmondfc.com.au/aflc-rich/document/2021/11/27/68f2c8fa-19a4-42df-b20d-fd70b943f324/RFC-CONCISE-FINANCIAL-STATEMENTS.pdf
Page 15: https://resources.richmondfc.com.au/aflc-rich/document/2019/11/30/871d72ec-da81-4e3a-84f4-862f468caedb/Concise-Financial-Report-2019.pdf
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I thought the soft cap is much less? The devil is in the detail, and I’m not sure it gives us accurate information if they have skimmed.
In any case. No finals in 2021, and we spent less. Vindication!!!
To compare it with the dees they spent almost the same, but the aflw costings were not included and that was an additional 2mil. Total 25.5 :shh
Cats in 2021 spent $23,682 mil approx 250k more than us.
Lastly, who replaced Inness??
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Is the footy department spend revealed in the annual reports or elsewhere?
Football operations expenditure:
2021 $23,428,622
2020 $23,568,283
2019 $28,369,319
2018 $27,212,594
Sources:
Page 16: https://resources.richmondfc.com.au/aflc-rich/document/2021/11/27/68f2c8fa-19a4-42df-b20d-fd70b943f324/RFC-CONCISE-FINANCIAL-STATEMENTS.pdf
Page 15: https://resources.richmondfc.com.au/aflc-rich/document/2019/11/30/871d72ec-da81-4e3a-84f4-862f468caedb/Concise-Financial-Report-2019.pdf
Yeah, I had a look at that in the concise reports, but Richmond (and everyone else) don't break down football department spend in their concise reports, so it's not particularly helpful. Did anyone get a copy of the full financial statement available to members by request? While I am a member, if someone has the pdf on hand I'd be interested to take a look without having to e-mail the club.
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I have all the full financial reports and there is no breakdown
My only comment
Difference from 2019 to 2020 and 2021 also include the pay cut the players took plus soft cap cuts of 3.5 million
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I have all the full financial reports and there is no breakdown
My only comment
Difference from 2019 to 2020 and 2021 also include the pay cut the players took plus soft cap cuts of 3.5 million
Pretty hard to reach any definitive conclusions without an inside word, then, which I don't have.
So I revert to my original position: Happy to trust the club. This executive has delivered the goods.
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I have all the full financial reports and there is no breakdown
My only comment
Difference from 2019 to 2020 and 2021 also include the pay cut the players took plus soft cap cuts of 3.5 million
Pretty hard to reach any definitive conclusions without an inside word, then, which I don't have.
So I revert to my original position: Happy to trust the club. This executive has delivered the goods.
Without definitive you can always work backwards based on certain assumptions
Eg assume paying total salary cap + total soft cap + what you know is excluded from the soft cap = see what's left $ wise and then look other things within football that we have eg the VFL program that don't fall under the soft cap
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I have all the full financial reports and there is no breakdown
My only comment
Difference from 2019 to 2020 and 2021 also include the pay cut the players took plus soft cap cuts of 3.5 million
Pretty hard to reach any definitive conclusions without an inside word, then, which I don't have.
So I revert to my original position: Happy to trust the club. This executive has delivered the goods.
Without definitive you can always work backwards based on certain assumptions
Eg assume paying total salary cap + total soft cap + what you know is excluded from the soft cap = see what's left $ wise and then look other things within football that we have eg the VFL program that don't fall under the soft cap
And if you've done that, what conclusions did you reach?
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And if you've done that, what conclusions did you reach?
I have a theory on a couple of things which I have no definitive proof on so will not post about it because I'm not prepared to be ridiculed and trolled about it.
All will say is based on what I've been told a number times at various functions and chats with the likes of Balmey around assistant coaches in particular I am in no doubt we are paying the entire soft cap.
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And if you've done that, what conclusions did you reach?
I have a theory on a couple of things which I have no definitive proof on so will not post about it because I'm not prepared to be ridiculed and trolled about it.
All will say is based on what I've been told a number times at various functions and chats with the likes of Balmey around assistant coaches in particular I am in no doubt we are paying the entire soft cap.
Fair enough. FWIW, if posters were to ridicule you, I would not be one of them. Thanks for the info. :gotigers
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And if you've done that, what conclusions did you reach?
I have a theory on a couple of things which I have no definitive proof on so will not post about it because I'm not prepared to be ridiculed and trolled about it.
All will say is based on what I've been told a number times at various functions and chats with the likes of Balmey around assistant coaches in particular I am in no doubt we are paying the entire soft cap.
It's been my thoughts for a while to be honest mentioned it before , but was shot down.I cannot understand how clubs not bigger then us or on the same level maintained there football department or upgraded etc while we cut all I hear covid issues etc.The club boast about 100k members etc simple when we invested in the footy department we seen the results no brainer.
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And if you've done that, what conclusions did you reach?
I have a theory on a couple of things which I have no definitive proof on so will not post about it because I'm not prepared to be ridiculed and trolled about it.
All will say is based on what I've been told a number times at various functions and chats with the likes of Balmey around assistant coaches in particular I am in no doubt we are paying the entire soft cap.
It's been my thoughts for a while to be honest mentioned it before , but was shot down.I cannot understand how clubs not bigger then us or on the same level maintained there football department or upgraded etc while we cut all I hear covid issues etc.The club boast about 100k members etc simple when we invested in the footy department we seen the results no brainer.
I'm not going to get into the debate again because I get howled down.
But to be clear ever Club not just us, ever Club made cuts. But as I've said many times we don't know where other clubs made their cuts. Everyone seems to focus on our assistants only and then compare to what others have or have not done in that area. I've said before unless we know where other Clubs cut you cannot compare
As far as I am aware no Club is paying over the cap this season. Next year will be different as Essendon have already said they will pay over as the Rutten payout plus wanting an experienced coach will take them over the cap. People have pointed to the Hawks this year paying out Clarko and not going over. But Mitchell was already on their books, yes pay increase but not that much. Did they add another assitant coach to replace Mitchell? If yes what type experienced or inexperienced... so many variables that we don't know.
Back on the actual topic of this thread. It will interesting to see which way we go here. How much money is allocated out of the cap in this area of the footy department? Do they try and get someone from a other Club? Do they offer more than what they were paying Burge? Do they look outside the AFL and look at other sports?
As I said this is the most important decision/appointment the Club will make this off season
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And if you've done that, what conclusions did you reach?
I have a theory on a couple of things which I have no definitive proof on so will not post about it because I'm not prepared to be ridiculed and trolled about it.
All will say is based on what I've been told a number times at various functions and chats with the likes of Balmey around assistant coaches in particular I am in no doubt we are paying the entire soft cap.
It's been my thoughts for a while to be honest mentioned it before , but was shot down.I cannot understand how clubs not bigger then us or on the same level maintained there football department or upgraded etc while we cut all I hear covid issues etc.The club boast about 100k members etc simple when we invested in the footy department we seen the results no brainer.
I'm not going to get into the debate again because I get howled down.
But to be clear ever Club not just us, ever Club made cuts. But as I've said many times we don't know where other clubs made their cuts. Everyone seems to focus on our assistants only and then compare to what others have or have not done in that area. I've said before unless we know where other Clubs cut you cannot compare
As far as I am aware no Club is paying over the cap this season. Next year will be different as Essendon have already said they will pay over as the Rutten payout plus wanting an experienced coach will take them over the cap. People have pointed to the Hawks this year paying out Clarko and not going over. But Mitchell was already on their books, yes pay increase but not that much. Did they add another assitant coach to replace Mitchell? If yes what type experienced or inexperienced... so many variables that we don't know.
Back on the actual topic of this thread. It will interesting to see which way we go here. How much money is allocated out of the cap in this area of the footy department? Do they try and get someone from a other Club? Do they offer more than what they were paying Burge? Do they look outside the AFL and look at other sports?
As I said this is the most important decision/appointment the Club will make this off season
You would think Burge informed them a while ago so they would have got the process underway me personally I would have tried to get Robbie Innes back from swans is he a a Victorian ?.
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I would love Rob Innes back at Tigerland but he may quite possibly be a career-based high performance trainer continually seeking new challenges and experiences. Going to Sydney and being their Head of Athletic Performance was a promotion in his field. It wouldn't surprise me after the Swans that he heads or is head hunted overseas to work for an EPL club or some NFL franchise. Similar to Darren Burgess who has worked with Liverpool and Arsenal before returning to Oz.
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as WP or anyone else has not been able to tell us who replaced Inness the answer must surely be that noone did.
Here is a thought why dont we try and poach his brother, or dont we have enough money in the cap after replacing Rob with?
Even had some bloke called Matthew Carlon employed at the club until the end of 2021 in that same department.
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Here we go again. The soft cap boogie man :lightning :pullhair :lightning
Don’t skimp on development
Don’t skimp on high performance
Don’t skimp on recruiting / list building
Do that and it’s not a soft cap boogie man that’ll be haunting us but a cancerous tumour of mediocrity will infest and set us back 10 years and it takes another 10 years to rectify it. So there’s 20 years in crap going nowhere making up the numbers
You need talented people you get those people and make the adjustments in the whole organisation and pay the fine IF there is one.
It’s not 1990 and we aren’t tin rattling anymore.
We are a powerhouse football organisation with more paying members than North Melbourne, Footscray and Saints combined.
I’m sure there’s a lot of wasted money elsewhere that we can find, like on virtue signalling initiatives that do nothing for actual football performance that we can do away with. :rollin
For instance, instead of wasting money on purchasing rainbow flags, socks and hats we could use that money to get the VFLW program going again considering we are the only club that uses an affiliate.
Then all the girls will have real support in a more professional environment. :shh
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This is where covid killed us. 3 flags, massive membership numbers. I'm sure our finances were bulging and we could have afforded extra coaches, fitness Staff etc.
Covid clipped our wings and bought us well and truly back to the pack.
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And the AFL dictatorship wasn’t happy to put the knife in.
It’s not the knife that kill us, it’s the rust
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One of the major issues we had this year was running out quarters/games and especially conceding red time goals. The Elim Final a perfect example. We coughed up 6 goals in total from the 28+ min mark to our one :P. 2 goals in the first; One in the second; 2 in the third and of course the brainfade one in the last with a minute to go :facepalm.
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Ross Lyon tonight on Footy Classified said that he knows someone who is going for our Fitness & Conditioning job and that it will be an internal appointment.
So who already at the Club is that? Who was 2IC to Burge?
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here we go again. Inside job. That surely isnt true.
if it is we have lost inness, some other guy calron who werent replaced and now burge. 3 out and zero in.
Luke Meehan I believe was his right hand man. Been employed at our club for 10 years,
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Luke Meehan I believe was his right hand man. Been employed at our club for 10 years,
Cheers, Frankie.
(https://is2-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Podcasts126/v4/e5/5f/9b/e55f9b55-4a04-d591-eb46-3444f236e229/mza_16040840923833083628.jpg/536x0w.webp)
Luke is currently a strength & conditioning coach at Richmond Tigers Football Club. Prior to his role at the Tigers, he has worked at Western Bulldogs and Geelong FC.
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/106-luke-meehan-head-strength-conditioning-coach-richmond/id1551125621?i=1000551799801
Experience:
Strength And Conditioning Coach
Richmond Football Club
Oct 2012 - Present (10 years)
Melbourne, Australia
Strength And Conditioning Coach
Western Bulldogs
Oct 2007 - Sep 2012 (5 years)
Assistant Strength And Conditioning Coach
Geelong Cats
Oct 2004 - Sep 2006 (2 years)
https://au.linkedin.com/in/luke-meehan-949285147
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Burgess leaves the dees and they all a sudden can’t finish off teams in the second half.
I expect much of the same in 2023 from us, unless we start loading up in this department. Not replacing inness cost us games this year. Look at the swans. Flying.
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Burgess leaves the dees and they all a sudden can’t finish off teams in the second half.
I expect much of the same in 2023 from us, unless we start loading up in this department. Not replacing inness cost us games this year. Look at the swans. Flying.
Rob Inness was our rehab guy
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Burgess leaves the dees and they all a sudden can’t finish off teams in the second half.
I expect much of the same in 2023 from us, unless we start loading up in this department. Not replacing inness cost us games this year. Look at the swans. Flying.
Rob Inness was our rehab guy
Correct.
How many repeat injuries did we have this year?
Yet we want to be tightarses, and rather spend money on other areas which have little
influence to our onfield performance.
Can tell you know if we want to load up on hopper with the rubbish we dished out this year, then expect more rehab time for that kid.
If we end up with Luke as our main man then we would be making a big mistake as he was part of this years problem.
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Our list has been an ageing list . Soft tissue injuries are part and parcel of such a list . Don’t think it would have helped if we had the Harvard medical school to see us through this
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Our list has been an ageing list . Soft tissue injuries are part and parcel of such a list . Don’t think it would have helped if we had the Harvard medical school to see us through this
Pee weak excuse. Geesooks list is older than ours and they've done a lot better with injuries and management
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Beat me to it Knighter. Some people really have no idea., and I’m sure Gig would retract that comment if he had his time again.
I could be wrong but cats had a pretty good list last year as well. :lol
Dusty’s gone from having a great run of injuries to not because he went from the age of 29 to 30. Nothing to do with management at all. Zero.
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Beat me to it Knighter. Some people really have no idea., and I’m sure Gig would retract that comment if he had his time again.
I could be wrong but cats had a pretty good list last year as well. :lol
Dusty’s gone from having a great run of injuries to not because he went from the age of 29 to 30. Nothing to do with management at all. Zero.
Whoever thinks age doesn't plat a party. Needs a reality check yes you need a great fitness team with out a doubt Cotchin had his injuries forever , Grimes always his hammy.
Cats get there fair share Danger , Cameron etc.
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Luke Meehan appointed Physical Performance Manager
Richmond media
16 November 2022
(https://resources.richmondfc.com.au/photo-resources/2022/11/16/d9fbf5b1-940e-403f-9680-362fba805014/Meehan-03178-Luke-Meehan.jpg?width=952&height=592)
Richmond is pleased to announce the appointment of Luke Meehan as the Club’s new Physical Performance Manager.
Meehan, who commenced the day-to-day operations of his new role this month, has been the strength and conditioning coach at the Club for the past 10 years, working closely with all players across eight finals campaigns and three premierships.
The experienced elite-performance coach has overseen the off-season programs for the Tigers’ playing list since the Elimination Final defeat to Brisbane in September.
Previously to his time at Richmond, Meehan was the strength and conditioning coach at the Western Bulldogs (2007-12), helping them to three consecutive preliminary finals.
Meehan also spent the 2005 and 2006 seasons at Geelong as part of the strength and conditioning and rehabilitation team.
Richmond's strength and conditioning coach, Luke Meehan, joins Bec Goddard to chat all things Tigers, training and triumph.
“Luke has a strong body of experience in elite performance, having held several roles across close to 20 years in the AFL industry,” Richmond General Manager- Football Performance Tim Livingstone said.
“He has an intimate knowledge of our playing list and will bring both stability and growth to our program, which is exciting for us and our players.
"Luke stood out following an extensive process, and we look forward to seeing him expand upon the excellent work he has put in within the program already.”
Richmond 1–4-year players will return to training officially on November 21, with 5+ year players starting a fortnight later.
Meehan replaces the outgoing Peter Burge in the Physical Performance Manager role.
https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/1248069/luke-meehan-appointed-physical-performance-manager
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But underwhelming that we’ve gone for an internal promotion rather than poaching someone externally given our struggles over the past few seasons which Luke would have been a part of although not running things.
Good luck to him though and hope he comes through in spades in what is a crucial role imo. Its an area we need to improve in significantly if we want to return to the top both in terms of fitness levels, injury treatment, rehab and return programs.
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Looks like a good appointment on paper.
Anyone on here who's been a good deputy to a bad boss knows he shouldn't be tainted by the previous regime's failings. He should be judged on his own merits.
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Looks like a good appointment on paper.
Anyone on here who's been a good deputy to a bad boss knows he shouldn't be tainted by the previous regime's failings. He should be judged on his own merits.
Fair point.
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Looks like a good appointment on paper.
Anyone on here who's been a good deputy to a bad boss knows he shouldn't be tainted by the previous regime's failings. He should be judged on his own merits.
Anyone that has worked under a bad boss/manager at all can relate to that. agree 100% & i'm sure we can all relate.
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Looks like a good appointment on paper.
Anyone on here who's been a good deputy to a bad boss knows he shouldn't be tainted by the previous regime's failings. He should be judged on his own merits.
Anyone that has worked under a bad boss/manager at all can relate to that. agree 100% & i'm sure we can all relate.
Certainly can. Can actually make you more determined to prove the doubters wrong
Sidebar: new puma team polo looks good, especially the nib logo
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Hate my boss.
Always want to prove her wrong.
It's a vicious and unhealthy cycle.
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I’m sure it’s a great appointment , however with everyone’s comments about bosses it reminds of the classic line from the WHO song “ meet the new boss same as the old boss” from the song “won’t get fooled again”
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Luke Meehan settling into the new role
"I've really enjoyed the responsibility and all the work that comes with it. I've obviously got big shoes to fill with Peter Burge delivering a great program for the last 10 years, and I'm going to work my hardest to keep delivering a good program."
Source: RFC website (https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/1255819/injury-report-full-pre-season-underway)
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As predicted is doing a fantastic job is Luke. Absolutely the right call to promote within the boys club
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Tarrant reinjure
Short reinjured
Graham reinjure?
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Has been a stuffen disastrous appointment
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Graham has done hus hammy. Pre-season was turf toe that he carried for most of 2022 under the previous regime. The 2 are not related
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We took short cuts recruiting within nothing changed.
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Dusty rested, graham, Tarrant, meatball?, Nank, shorty, lynch,
Let me tell you if burge was still in charge everyone would agree so what makes this clown free from
criticism given he was his right hand man.
To date it’s been a terrible decision by the club. End of story.
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We took short cuts recruiting within nothing changed.
Yep. Lost Inness replaced with a witches hat.
Only got Rutten this year, and prior to that we were relying on Teague. Dear me in what world were we thinking he was going to provide anything to our football club.
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Umm... 2 new coaches this year not 1 Frankie.
Rutten and Lambert
If you are going to go whack; which you are more than welcome to do at least got whack with facts not what you think has happened
Again just on Teague, he was forward line coach last season and we we were one of the highest scoring teams in the comp. He is no longer forward line coach in 2023 and our forward line is again dysfunctional
But whatever
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Umm... 2 new coaches this year not 1 Frankie.
Rutten and Lambert
If you are going to go whack; which you are more than welcome to do at least got whack with facts not what you think has happened
Again just on Teague, he was forward line coach last season and we we were one of the highest scoring teams in the comp. He is no longer forward line coach in 2023 and our forward line is again dysfunctional
But whatever
My problem is the fitness side of things we are seeing the same thing occurring as last season club should have head hunted a top target I don't want to hear covid crap etc 90% of clubs are back to normal we butchered this decision.
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Footy dept soft cap is still in place. Whether up slightly this year but not by much
I am not saying we got the appointment right but I get frustrated when people make sweeping statements that are factually incorrect
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Luke Meehan is not our main problem.
Ivan Maric our Ruck coach is our problem.
We will not win the midfield numbers until:
A, Nankervis changes tactics or pulls his finger out and finds some form.
B, Nankervis is replaced as first Ruckman.
In my view it is as simple and obvious as that. No other club would tolerate their Rucks giving the opposition first use by handing it to them like Nank does. This is a technique, skill or tactic issue.
We have got this set up horribly wrong and that is on Maric and ultimately Hardwick's watch.
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It was horribly evident in the final loss to Brisbane last year. Injuries are just unfortunate luck most of the time. Every club gets them this is no excuse.
If they do nothing about our Ruck and Mids structure then we are in for a horrible result this season.
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Just about better off playing Pickett in the ruck and having another mid in there.
He has a good leap.
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Just about better off playing Pickett in the ruck and having another mid in there.
He has a good leap.
Funny you should say that
Rd 3 against Collingwood, when Pickett took one centre bounce we easily one the clearance
Go figure :help :yep :huh3
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Umm... 2 new coaches this year not 1 Frankie.
Rutten and Lambert
If you are going to go whack; which you are more than welcome to do at least got whack with facts not what you think has happened
Again just on Teague, he was forward line coach last season and we we were one of the highest scoring teams in the comp. He is no longer forward line coach in 2023 and our forward line is again dysfunctional
But whatever
Sure okay add lambert. Point still stands for last year.
Firstly, I’m not convinced he was the forward coach and I can tell you why. Many games last year he was not in the forward group at half time. Is that 100% accurate he was out forward line coach in every game?
Secondly, scoring big numbers with no defensive pressure is not how you win flags.
Thirdly, he is a dud coach and he proved that at Carlton. Fact.
I would dump his sorry arse and make a big play for grigg and hodgy
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Not sure he was forward line coach last season either, I think it was him or Xavier Clarke. If he wasn’t forwards coach, he was in charge of ‘offensive movement’ or something along those lines. Would be great if the club could update the website so we know each coach’s role but that is a seperate matter.
Whatever his official title was, his role was 100% offensive based and the primary function of that role would be to score goals and we were AFL#1 for that. Are there other complimentary benefits that would fall under his jurisdiction, sure but his main objective is scoring and we achieved that in spades. Also you don’t seem to be anywhere near as critical of the defensive or midfield coaches which we performed much worse in.
If Teague’s reign at Carlton proves him to be a dud coach, what does that make the likes of rutten or even Leppitsch before him?
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Well another soft tissue injury, and another fade out due to being lazy unfit or whatever you want to call it.
Doesn’t matter as our man Luke is doing a fantastic job
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Need complete change here. We aren't fit enough
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Agree. Not good enough
Was it this bloke insisting no balls be used until February?
Some of these bozos will insist on this crap to protect hamstrings. Now the season begins and injuries are abundant. :help
It’s all speculation but I can only see what has occurred and I blame this bloke for our lack of fitness and poor skills.
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If Lynch, Tarrant, Nank, Biggie, Bradtke, Soldo, Brown, Smith and Colina were all running around in the 1s or 2s, would this even be an issue? None of these injuries can be slated home to Meehan, yet he gets criticised for us having a long injury list.
Does he get credit for Short coming back from 3 weeks off and playing as well as he did? No, I didn't think so.
Lots of ill-informed 'fitness experts' on here with opinions that aren't worth a tinkers in my book.
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If Lynch, Tarrant, Nank, Biggie, Bradtke, Soldo, Brown, Smith and Colina were all running around in the 1s or 2s, would this even be an issue? None of these injuries can be slated home to Meehan, yet he gets criticised for us having a long injury list.
Does he get credit for Short coming back from 3 weeks off and playing as well as he did? No, I didn't think so.
Lots of ill-informed 'fitness experts' on here with opinions that aren't worth a tinkers in my book.
Nah he is a dud. Blind freddy can see that.
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It's always astounded me just how much Blind Freddy can actually see.
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If Lynch, Tarrant, Nank, Biggie, Bradtke, Soldo, Brown, Smith and Colina were all running around in the 1s or 2s, would this even be an issue? None of these injuries can be slated home to Meehan, yet he gets criticised for us having a long injury list.
Does he get credit for Short coming back from 3 weeks off and playing as well as he did? No, I didn't think so.
Lots of ill-informed 'fitness experts' on here with opinions that aren't worth a tinkers in my book.
Nah he is a dud. Blind freddy can see that.
What are your reasons for saying that?
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Umm... 2 new coaches this year not 1 Frankie.
Rutten and Lambert
If you are going to go whack; which you are more than welcome to do at least got whack with facts not what you think has happened
Again just on Teague, he was forward line coach last season and we we were one of the highest scoring teams in the comp. He is no longer forward line coach in 2023 and our forward line is again dysfunctional
But whatever
Bang on
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It's always astounded me just how much Blind Freddy can actually see.
:lol :lol :lol
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Last 3 seasons our fitness and medical side has been exposed like it or not club has not invested in it and I don't want to hear covid crap took the easy root last year with this appointment we look unfit bigtime to.
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If Lynch, Tarrant, Nank, Biggie, Bradtke, Soldo, Brown, Smith and Colina were all running around in the 1s or 2s, would this even be an issue? None of these injuries can be slated home to Meehan, yet he gets criticised for us having a long injury list.
Does he get credit for Short coming back from 3 weeks off and playing as well as he did? No, I didn't think so.
Lots of ill-informed 'fitness experts' on here with opinions that aren't worth a tinkers in my book.
Facts are facts FFV.
Ask yourself a question
Can we currently execute our game style for four quarters?
If the answer is no it’s a fitness issue plain and simple. You don’t need to be a fitness guru to know that.
Also if you’re not fit enough in any industry whilst working are you more prone to injury?
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If Lynch, Tarrant, Nank, Biggie, Bradtke, Soldo, Brown, Smith and Colina were all running around in the 1s or 2s, would this even be an issue? None of these injuries can be slated home to Meehan, yet he gets criticised for us having a long injury list.
Does he get credit for Short coming back from 3 weeks off and playing as well as he did? No, I didn't think so.
Lots of ill-informed 'fitness experts' on here with opinions that aren't worth a tinkers in my book.
Facts are facts FFV.
Ask yourself a question
Can we currently execute our game style for four quarters?
If the answer is no it’s a fitness issue plain and simple. You don’t need to be a fitness guru to know that.
Also if you’re not fit enough in any industry whilst working are you more prone to injury?
Ask yourself this: we won 13.5 games last year, and were an arc decision from facing a weakened Melbourne in a semi final. Were we only fit enough for 13.5 games and not fit enough for the other 8 or 9?
I don't buy any of this malarkey. It's got much more to do with personnel available at the moment, the number of kids with only one or two preseason in them, and a lot of aging champs.
When things aren't going right on field, the fitness staff are just an easy target. "Must be fitness" is a cheap shot. It's much more complex than that and that's the point I'm trying to make.
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:laugh:
If Lynch, Tarrant, Nank, Biggie, Bradtke, Soldo, Brown, Smith and Colina were all running around in the 1s or 2s, would this even be an issue? None of these injuries can be slated home to Meehan, yet he gets criticised for us having a long injury list.
Does he get credit for Short coming back from 3 weeks off and playing as well as he did? No, I didn't think so.
Lots of ill-informed 'fitness experts' on here with opinions that aren't worth a tinkers in my book.
Facts are facts FFV.
Ask yourself a question
Can we currently execute our game style for four quarters?
If the answer is no it’s a fitness issue plain and simple. You don’t need to be a fitness guru to know that.
Also if you’re not fit enough in any industry whilst working are you more prone to injury?
Ask yourself this: we won 13.5 games last year, and were an arc decision from facing a weakened Melbourne in a semi final. Were we only fit enough for 13.5 games and not fit enough for the other 8 or 9?
I don't buy any of this malarkey. It's got much more to do with personnel available at the moment, the number of kids with only one or two preseason in them, and a lot of aging champs.
When things aren't going right on field, the fitness staff are just an easy target. "Must be fitness" is a cheap shot. It's much more complex than that and that's the point I'm trying to make.
Well unlike yourself I’ll actually answer your questions.
No we weren’t fit enough last season in order to play our game for four quarters. That’s why we only scrapped into finals and didn’t win any.
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Have a look at Collingwood fitness compared to ours, they just destroyed bombers in the last quarter. First to every contest and in numbers… how have they done it ? Even their older players at playing well unlike ours
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Poor old Essendon must have to sack their fitness staff now.
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:laugh:If Lynch, Tarrant, Nank, Biggie, Bradtke, Soldo, Brown, Smith and Colina were all running around in the 1s or 2s, would this even be an issue? None of these injuries can be slated home to Meehan, yet he gets criticised for us having a long injury list.
Does he get credit for Short coming back from 3 weeks off and playing as well as he did? No, I didn't think so.
Lots of ill-informed 'fitness experts' on here with opinions that aren't worth a tinkers in my book.
Facts are facts FFV.
Ask yourself a question
Can we currently execute our game style for four quarters?
If the answer is no it’s a fitness issue plain and simple. You don’t need to be a fitness guru to know that.
Also if you’re not fit enough in any industry whilst working are you more prone to injury?
Ask yourself this: we won 13.5 games last year, and were an arc decision from facing a weakened Melbourne in a semi final. Were we only fit enough for 13.5 games and not fit enough for the other 8 or 9?
I don't buy any of this malarkey. It's got much more to do with personnel available at the moment, the number of kids with only one or two preseason in them, and a lot of aging champs.
When things aren't going right on field, the fitness staff are just an easy target. "Must be fitness" is a cheap shot. It's much more complex than that and that's the point I'm trying to make.
Well unlike yourself I’ll actually answer your questions.
No we weren’t fit enough last season in order to play our game for four quarters. That’s why we only scrapped into finals and didn’t win any.
When we overran the younger (Darren Burgess trained) Crows in the last quarter on their home deck in round 2, were we fit enough then, or no?
BTW, you didn't come anywhere near answering the question. You just said the same thing again.
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You are reaching. We played poorly in a fair bit of that game against the crows IMO and again didn’t play 4 quarters.
Possibly 2 and a half, and won because the crows played one quarter.
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Agree. Not good enough
Was it this bloke insisting no balls be used until February?
.......
We were training full ground drills with the football in December. Burge was the guy who had us doing football free December.
Our GPS numbers are up measurably over this pre-season. Including for repeat sprints/high intensity efforts. Just a couple of facts.
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Agree. Not good enough
Was it this bloke insisting no balls be used until February?
.......
We were training full ground drills with the football in December. Burge was the guy who had us doing football free December.
Our GPS numbers are up measurably over this pre-season. Including for repeat sprints/high intensity efforts. Just a couple of facts.
Facts don’t go down well with some on here :shh
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up "considerably" and yet still behind the best in the comp and as a result cant run out 4 quarters.
These facts are according to who by the way.
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up "considerably" and yet still behind the best in the comp and as a result cant run out 4 quarters.
These facts are according to who by the way.
From a coaches briefing and my own personal viewing and timing training this pre-season and last.
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up "considerably" and yet still behind the best in the comp and as a result cant run out 4 quarters.
These facts are according to who by the way.
From a coaches briefing and my own personal viewing and timing training this pre-season and last.
So are you suggesting our fade outs are between the ears rather than a lack of fitness ?
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up "considerably" and yet still behind the best in the comp and as a result cant run out 4 quarters.
These facts are according to who by the way.
From a coaches briefing and my own personal viewing and timing training this pre-season and last.
My take is too many players with only one or two pre-seasons. 7 guys last night pretty much in their first or second season. Melbourne had 1 or 2 such players. For the game Melbourne ran 4k's more than us, 283km vs 279km. That;s 1.5%. Their high intensity stuff was better but that's mature bodies, imho.
So are you suggesting our fade outs are between the ears rather than a lack of fitness ?
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up "considerably" and yet still behind the best in the comp and as a result cant run out 4 quarters.
These facts are according to who by the way.
From a coaches briefing and my own personal viewing and timing training this pre-season and last.
So are you suggesting our fade outs are between the ears rather than a lack of fitness ?
I'm not sure the premise of 'fade outs' is totally accurate. We didn't fade out in Rounds 1 and 2. One could argue we were finishing stronger than Carlton in the last quarter. We smashed Adelaide in the last quarter. We got off to a bad start against Collingwood and actually closed the gap in the second half. We were with the Dogs all night and went down in a close one. Last night it was less of a fade out than a possibly bad sub decision and bad kicking for goal that cost us. Sydney was a fade out, but we had a kick to get within a goal early in the last, and they got us from there.
I get that people want a simple explanation for being 1 and a half wins after 6 games, but isn't it possible that the answer is more nuanced than "the fitness guy" or "between the ears"? We are definitely renovating this side, and there will be some poor games and bad days along the way. Hopefully some good days too. Guys like M Rioli, Clarke, HRS, Cumberland, Ryan, Mansell, Young and Miller are not immediately replacing the hardened premiership players that have left over the past couple of seasons. Sheeting a bad win/loss record right now all to one fitness guy is nonsense IMO.
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I get exactly what you’re saying. Purely from spectating you do wonder with Collingwood being able to run Essendon into the ground in the last quarter it’s still worth entertaining the idea are our cubs fit enough? This is elite sport so 2-5% difference can be massive in grinding out a win.
We were so good on the spread in our premiership years but it could also be that we had kane lambert who made everyone around him better. For me I think his departure is the one we haven’t come close to replacing and has crippled us the most. Collingwood still have a fit Sidebottom doing the between the arc running.
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up "considerably" and yet still behind the best in the comp and as a result cant run out 4 quarters.
These facts are according to who by the way.
From a coaches briefing and my own personal viewing and timing training this pre-season and last.
with the greatest of respect that tells me absolutely nothing factual about how we cant run our 4 quarters, especially the latter part of your reply. id like to see how our numbers stack up against teams who are finishing 4 quarters of football.
Il also add that we had the same issues in a lot of games last year. Whilst not this blokes fault he was part of the system with Burge. I'm interested in who oversaw this football free rubbish.
Agree. Not good enough
Was it this bloke insisting no balls be used until February?
.......
We were training full ground drills with the football in December. Burge was the guy who had us doing football free December.
Our GPS numbers are up measurably over this pre-season. Including for repeat sprints/high intensity efforts. Just a couple of facts.
Can i please confirm which year are you referring to here?
if it was pre season 2022 Luke was in charge
https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/1248069/luke-meehan-appointed-physical-performance-manager
up "considerably" and yet still behind the best in the comp and as a result cant run out 4 quarters.
These facts are according to who by the way.
From a coaches briefing and my own personal viewing and timing training this pre-season and last.
So are you suggesting our fade outs are between the ears rather than a lack of fitness ?
I get that people want a simple explanation for being 1 and a half wins after 6 games, but isn't it possible that the answer is more nuanced than "the fitness guy" or "between the ears"? We are definitely renovating this side, and there will be some poor games and bad days along the way. Hopefully some good days too. Guys like M Rioli, Clarke, HRS, Cumberland, Ryan, Mansell, Young and Miller are not immediately replacing the hardened premiership players that have left over the past couple of seasons. Sheeting a bad win/loss record right now all to one fitness guy is nonsense IMO.
:banghead :banghead
did anyone actually say that? What people have said its an issue, amongst others things like performance of senior players, discipline issues, personnel issues etc
Wake up please.
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I take back my precious post. I just remembered a dyl and friends podcast with Nathan Jones. He said when they were in peak shitness that was actually when the club was at its fittest. They had close to 3/4 of their top 22 running ~10min 3km. He said because their skills and structure was so poor the fitness didn’t do enough to negate just their poor execution of ball movement.
He said they ran considerably less once Oliver, petracca viney got settled and Paul Roos/Goodwin made wholesale changes
I know it’s hyper specific but considering our long kicking game has been terrible id say we’re having parallels with what Nate Jones experienced
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:banghead :banghead
did anyone actually say that? What people have said its an issue, amongst others things like performance of senior players, discipline issues, personnel issues etc
Wake up please.
Lol. Hopefully all that head banging exorcises the fitness bloke that is living rent free inside your head. :rollin
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Both our starts and finishes have been ordinary in most games :P. Our only strong quarter has been the second.
2023 Quarter Statistics
Quarter W D L For Against %
1st 2 0 4 15.13 (103) 18.19 (127) 81.10
2nd 2 0 4 20.16 (136) 13.15 (93) 146.24
3rd 2 0 4 18.15 (123) 20.30 (150) 82.00
4th 2 0 4 13.15 (93) 20.14 (134) 69.40
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total 8 0 16 66.59 (455) 71.78 (504) 90.28
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Yeah was making a similar point earlier. It's hard to argue that fitness is responsible for a bad first quarter, especially when the second is better.
Also, our running stats (distance covered and short burst running) matched Collingwood's in this round. They won, we lost. Similarly, we covered more distance and had more short burst running than Brisbane in last year's elimination final. Interestingly, Adelaide smashed us in running stats in round 2, but we won by 5 goals. Our stats in the Bulldogs game were the same or slightly better, and we lost by 5 points. Make of that what you will.
Now, it is easy to make stats say anything you want, that's a given. But our running stats (which are a reasonable indication of fitness levels - at least it is something quantifiable and is probably a better indication than gut feel) aren't appreciably different to other sides. They are freely available on the AFL app and make interesting reading.
If you look at the stats, you could make an argument that they support the idea that the age profile of our side and personnel available is reflected in our starts and finishes i.e. finding it hard to match the speed of 'average younger' sides early, grinding back in to games through the middle and back end but perhaps spending too many tickets to get back and thus finding it hard to get across the line. But overall we are covering similar ground and similar burst running, just not distributing it over the game in a balanced way. So our fitness per se is comparable to the better sides in the competition but maybe not being deployed ideally due to other factors.
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I also think having a few too many older players doesn’t help one bit when it comes to lifting a notch in order to win games . Doubt the cotches, Prestia, grimes , etc have too many gears they can ramp up to anymore . Sad to say it but as in most things in life youth dominates the physical realm.
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I also think having a few too many older players doesn’t help one bit when it comes to lifting a notch in order to win games . Doubt the cotches, Prestia, grimes , etc have too many gears they can ramp up to anymore . Sad to say it but as in most things in life youth dominates the physical realm.
I was talking to friend about what impact if any the age profile of our list playing in this injury mess (soft tissue not bone breaks)
I made the observation that when Burge first joined Richmond we had a relatively young list and during that time I think we had few soft tissue injuries. Last few years that flipped significantly. Burge is now gone to Hawthorn who have a young list and their injury list is mainly concussions with no soft tissue injuries at all.
I posed the question are Burge's methods more suited to young bodies, to make them hardened for the rigours of AFL as opposed to older bodies/lists
Which bought me to us and Meehan. He did his apprenticeship under Burge, so considering everything he would have learnt from Burge are his methods in this current season morecsuited to younger players? Most of our injuries are with our older guys so is there some sort of correlation? Or has he changed things up so much that our players conditioning is taking time to get used to the new ways?
I am as frustrated as anyone, I think our soft tissue injuries in particular are unacceptable and for that the buck obviously stops with the head of fitness and his team.
It would be interesting to know what's changed (if anything)
If nothing has changed from the Burge then it needs to and it is incumbent on the Club to ensure that Meehan is given what he needs to ensure it does
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I also think having a few too many older players doesn’t help one bit when it comes to lifting a notch in order to win games . Doubt the cotches, Prestia, grimes , etc have too many gears they can ramp up to anymore . Sad to say it but as in most things in life youth dominates the physical realm.
I agree. Also, when you are managing a Prestia or Clarke or Mansell (one for injury prevention and another because their tank isn't fully developed) at under 70% game time, then you may be red zoning someone else at different stages, which risks a soft tissue injury. Not an easy balance for the coaches in the heat of battle and has flow on effects to the injury list. Not sure you can blame fitness people for that, everyone has their limit.
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Our fitness is normally a slow burn compared to other sides so that we are peaking during September rather than in March/April
I suspect we will be in prime match fitness by round 15 and peaking by first final or the end of season trip to Cancun.
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Old age & treachery defeats youth & skill ... in most things.
Except football ... :-\
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I would have loved to have kept playing in the lower leagues of the amos, but unfortunately at 34 I realised post games that I was starting to have trouble taking care of personal hygiene when I visited the little footballers room(toilet), not to mention that once I plonked myself on the couch the Cape Kennedy rocket hauler was needed to get me off it . So I sort of get where our older players are at I guess , although my level of fitness was not even comparable to them
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Agree. Not good enough
Was it this bloke insisting no balls be used until February?
.......
We were training full ground drills with the football in December. Burge was the guy who had us doing football free December.
Our GPS numbers are up measurably over this pre-season. Including for repeat sprints/high intensity efforts. Just a couple of facts.
Tigeritis did we get clarity on when these all important football free sessions were held. December 2022 was it?
Its certainly working a treat, and i hope it was december 2021 as old man Burges was long gone by dec 22 :shh
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The AFL app has a workrate tracker for each match.
Workrate (km/hr)
Attack Defence
Rich Opp Diff Rich Opp Diff
R1 Carl 6.3 8.2 -1.9 6.7 7.7 -1.0
R2 Adel 7.3 7.9 -0.6 7.5 7.4 +0.1
R3 Coll 8.4 8.1 +0.3 8.1 8.3 -0.2
R4 Dogs 8.2 8.1 +0.1 8.1 8.0 +0.1
R5 Syd 7.7 7.7 --- 7.3 7.8 -0.5
R6 Melb 7.7 7.8 -0.1 7.4 8.1 -0.7
R7 Suns 8.1 8.3 -0.2 7.7 8.6 -0.9
Source: AFL app workrate tracker.
Whether it's due to aging players, too many inexperienced cubs, underdone players thanks to an interrupted preseason, or that simply we are not just plain fit enough, we are unable to match our opposition most weeks in terms of fitness. Looking at these stats we are clearly being outworked especially defensively :help.
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:lol :lol
ageing bodies last year as well? Always an excuse. How about some accountability for this mob?
Cotch cops it as does cumberland but no such issues for this group of clowns.
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They are average speed in defence & attack stats. It means we are slower, not being 'outworked'. You can basically put that down to Riewoldt, Lynch, Martin, Prestia and Cotchin. Put five 22- 25year olds in instead of them, and we'd be a hell of a lot quicker in defensive transition. But we might not win any games.
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Again further highlights how much we miss lambert. His avg pace in attack and defence was insane
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Or maybe our standards aren’t as high as they used to be.
Nobody is immune to the dangers of stagnation. Question is whether or not those in management can identify the minutiae of substandard practices across the whole footy department.
Excuses are a prime example of diminishing standards.
All it takes is a little leaven to leaven the whole batch.
Mediocrity is like a cancer.
Attention Intrest Decision Action
Coffee is for closers! Always Be Closing!
(https://y.yarn.co/93bdf978-1139-4996-a308-2fa89136c2ed.mp4)
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Well training watchers were very much noting lower training standards during preseason. Enough said and the results speak for themselves in my view.
Unless someone out there can prove otherwise and set the record straight in favour of Luke. Until then I believe genuine scrutiny is reasonable at this point. From the outside we look unfit and off the mark In terms of AFL standards. We are also suffering many soft tissue injuries that may just be associated with lack of overall conditioning.
However again, like I said if someone from the inside has better data then show us.... If we get beaten today then wow.
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I’ve got my own acronym for some of these posts.
Stupid
Hypocritical
Ignorant
Total
Effluent
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I’ve got my own acronym for some of these posts.
Stupid
Hypocritical
Ignorant
Total
Effluent
Post of the year. Could probably put it in most threads
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Short 4-7 weeks medium term
* after 4 weeks - in a moon boot 4-7 weeks
* after 8 weeks - setback after surgery - indefinite
:rollin
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*announces his retirement :shh
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“They’ve had so many soft tissue injuries to players repeatedly, more so than any club I can remember,” - Kane Cornes.
Tom Lynch's latest injury has raised questions about Richmond’s high performance.
@SENSportsday
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ5HK7BbwAQ_smk?format=jpg&name=large)
https://x.com/1116sen/status/1805469721187205303
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But underwhelming that we’ve gone for an internal promotion rather than poaching someone externally given our struggles over the past few seasons which Luke would have been a part of although not running things.
Good luck to him though and hope he comes through in spades in what is a crucial role imo. Its an area we need to improve in significantly if we want to return to the top both in terms of fitness levels, injury treatment, rehab and return programs.
^ive cut him more slack than most but I was sceptical with his appointment from the start.
At the time just seemed like another in a line of mediocre appointments where highly rated people (fly, leppa, inness, caracella, rutten, etc.) left the club in close succession and instead of replacing them external, highly rated appointments, we for the most part either promoted within (xclarke, Meehan, morris) or merged roles and didn’t replace at all.
I know COVID and cuts to the soft cap certainly played their part but im not sure why we seemed to struggle as much as any other club given how much more $$$ we were bringing in than any other club at the time coming off 3 flags.
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I wonder if we were just drinking our own bathwater a bit and thought we were so damned good we could do it all from inside.
Anyway, looks like Cornbread is stalking our forums. If you're reading this Corndog I think you're a twit and I'm glad Brownie smacked you around :)
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I wonder if we were just drinking our own bathwater a bit and thought we were so damned good we could do it all from inside.
Anyway, looks like Cornbread is stalking our forums. If you're reading this Corndog I think you're a twit and I'm glad Brownie smacked you around :)
:clapping :clapping :clapping
And while you're at it, write about another club once in a while!!!
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Farcical. I'm looking at who's running the footy department Livingstone and Blair along with Gale.
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Benny's head's in Hobart.... :shh
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I thought Grimes injured a calf, now he's out with a back??
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I thought Grimes injured a calf, now he's out with a back??
It was always a back from memory.
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I thought Grimes injured a calf, now he's out with a back??
It was always a back from memory.
yep
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I know COVID and cuts to the soft cap certainly played their part but im not sure why we seemed to struggle as much as any other club given how much more $$$ we were bringing in than any other club at the time coming off 3 flags.
IMHO With the soft cap cuts it all came down to where they put their focus on the allocation of the available $$.
Which makes me tend to agree with Andyy's comment below....
I wonder if we were just drinking our own bathwater a bit and thought we were so damned good we could do it all from inside.
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I know COVID and cuts to the soft cap certainly played their part but im not sure why we seemed to struggle as much as any other club given how much more $$$ we were bringing in than any other club at the time coming off 3 flags.
IMHO With the soft cap cuts it all came down to where they put their focus on the allocation of the available $$.
Which makes me tend to agree with Andyy's comment below....
I wonder if we were just drinking our own bathwater a bit and thought we were so damned good we could do it all from inside.
Come on mate let's say how it is. Covid crap is long gone we don't have excuses now. Football department dropped the ball and standards. Like I have been saying should be more focus on who's running the footy department.
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As you say, COVID is gone.
People are back at the footy, memberships are up, everyone is watching the footy so where are the cap limits now?? Have they been reinstated to as they were pre COVID?
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As you say, COVID is gone.
People are back at the footy, memberships are up, everyone is watching the footy so where are the cap limits now?? Have they been reinstated to as they were pre COVID?
Spot on 💯 other clubs getting right and hiring top notch staff. Seems like here to many make excuses for the club and accept mediocre.
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Are we putting too much money toward PRO?
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Are we putting too much money toward PRO?
...and Bingo was his name-o... :shh
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yes we are IMO. Benny had one foot in his Tassy/afl bed and anyone who thinks he was 100% on the ball here are kidding themselves, in terms of the footy department and PRO.
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yes we are IMO. Benny had one foot in his Tassy/afl bed and anyone who thinks he was 100% on the ball here are kidding themselves, in terms of the footy department and PRO.
Spot on
The club has become mess once again
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As you say, COVID is gone.
People are back at the footy, memberships are up, everyone is watching the footy so where are the cap limits now?? Have they been reinstated to as they were pre COVID?
No the footy department soft cap is nowhere pre COVID levels at least $2 mil short of the number it was before it got slashed. They only increased it this year by $800k. So since they cut it by over $3.3mil they've reinstated just on $1 mil
As you say, COVID is gone.
People are back at the footy, memberships are up, everyone is watching the footy so where are the cap limits now?? Have they been reinstated to as they were pre COVID?
Spot on 💯 other clubs getting right and hiring top notch staff. Seems like here to many make excuses for the club and accept mediocre.
Clearly that's a cheap shot at me. I get really peeved when people throw the chestnut of accepting mediocrity.
I will do my best to try and explain my opinion as best I can. I have no doubt you won't agree but hey that's life.
Andyy, made a point which I tend to agree with and that is we thought we were so good we made this appointment from within.
Part of it IMHO is that with cuts to the soft cap we focused on putting funds in certain areas. Clearly the fitness dept was one of the areas we didn't focus on. Hence, why we are in the mess we find ourselves in. The appointment of Meehan has clearly been a massive mistake.
The soft cap cuts are a reality. Whether you or anyone wants to accept let alone acknowledge it.
Every Club had to make adjustments, changes. We have absolutely no idea where any of the Clubs made changes to in their footy departments to stay under the soft cap. No Club has said where they cut. Outside of Essendon no Club has paid over the cap since it's been cut and that's because they had to because they sacked a coach.
You keep harping on about who's running the Footy Dept. The 2 blokes running were recommended by the former footy boss, one Neil Balme. I trust Balmy's judgement as i have the utmost respect for him. Have you ever considered why he moved out of the footy dept? Ever considered why it happened after the cuts were announced? Think about it, it isn't hard to put 1 and 1 together to get 2 ::)
As for the redevelopment are people seriously suggesting the Club go into massive debt to fund it?
FWIW our Club spends the entire soft cap. Should we go over and then pay a 100% tax to help fund the strugglers? IMHO the answer is no.
Are we spending the soft cap in the right areas. Seeing I don't know how it is all allocated I'm not 100% sure. But what I do know is for 2025 the fitness area and by extension the medical team needs to be a major focus.
Clear enough?
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As you say, COVID is gone.
People are back at the footy, memberships are up, everyone is watching the footy so where are the cap limits now?? Have they been reinstated to as they were pre COVID?
No the footy department soft cap is nowhere pre COVID levels at least $2 mil short of the number it was before it got slashed. They only increased it this year by $800k. So since they cut it by over $3.3mil they've reinstated just on $1 mil
Thanks for answering that. Guess the AFL just love to try make things hard for everyone :banghead
They are clearly just wanting clubs to spend the extra so they can rake in the extra dough to fill their pockets with??!!
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As you say, COVID is gone.
People are back at the footy, memberships are up, everyone is watching the footy so where are the cap limits now?? Have they been reinstated to as they were pre COVID?
No the footy department soft cap is nowhere pre COVID levels at least $2 mil short of the number it was before it got slashed. They only increased it this year by $800k. So since they cut it by over $3.3mil they've reinstated just on $1 mil
As you say, COVID is gone.
People are back at the footy, memberships are up, everyone is watching the footy so where are the cap limits now?? Have they been reinstated to as they were pre COVID?
Spot on 💯 other clubs getting right and hiring top notch staff. Seems like here to many make excuses for the club and accept mediocre.
Clearly that's a cheap shot at me. I get really peeved when people throw the chestnut of accepting mediocrity.
I will do my best to try and explain my opinion as best I can. I have no doubt you won't agree but hey that's life.
Andyy, made a point which I tend to agree with and that is we thought we were so good we made this appointment from within.
Part of it IMHO is that with cuts to the soft cap we focused on putting funds in certain areas. Clearly the fitness dept was not one of the areas we didn't focus on. Hence, why we are in the mess we find ourselves in. The appointment of Meehan has clearly been a massive mistake.
The soft cap cuts are a reality. Whether you or anyone wants to accept let alone acknowledge it.
Every Club had to make adjustments, changes. We have absolutely no idea where any of the Clubs made changes to in their footy departments to stay under the soft cap. No Club has said where they cut. Outside of Essendon no Club has paid over the cap since it's been cut and that's because they had to because they sacked a coach.
You keep harping on about who's running the Footy Dept. The 2 blokes running were recommended by the former footy boss, one Neil Balme. I trust Balmy's judgement as i have the utmost respect for him. Have you ever considered why he moved out of the footy dept? Ever considered why it happened after the cuts were announced? Think about it, it isn't hard to put 1 and 1 together to get 2 ::)
As for the redevelopment are people seriously suggesting the Club go into massive debt to fund it?
FWIW our Club spends the entire soft cap. Should we go over and then pay a 100% tax to help fund the strugglers? IMHO the answer is no.
Are we spending the soft cap in the right areas. Seeing I don't know how it is all allocated I'm not 100% sure. But what I do know is for 2025 the fitness area and by extension the medical team needs to be a major focus.
Clear enough?
Each to there own mate let’s not forget we're not paying a Dimma salary to Yze also so that money is available to.
I keep mentioning the 2 running the footy department because there needs to be accountability. Not just to pin it on Meehan. Yes Balme recommended them that doesn't mean they have done a great job tho.
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Richo: Dan Rioli is the only player who has played every game. How frustrating has that been for the football department?
Livingstone: Really frustrating. It's been frustrating for Adem. Like he's coaching with one arm tied behind his back. But as much as many of them have been collision or poor landing and bad luck, there's been ones that we've been frustrated by - soft tissues - which we want to get better at. We're reviewing it all the time. We're seeking expert advice. We're wanting to get these guys on the track. We want to set them up to play consistent football for long periods of time. It's been tough but the growth from it has been what we've spoken previously about. It's the opportunity for other kids to play.
Richo: So that high performance area - it's something that's constantly reviewed?
Livingstone: It's reviewed daily. We've got some of the best in the business. Been in the game at an elite level for a long time. They don't sit on their hands at all. Apart from working as a group, they seek expert opinion externally. They are doing everything they can to improve the injury rate. It's not where we want to be. Sometimes this happens with football clubs. But we want to improve. We always want to improve.
https://www.richmondfc.com.au/video/1608829/tim-livingstone-on-talking-tigers?videoId=1608829&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1721712174001
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Some of the best in the business
Yep
It’s showing
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Some of the best in the business
Yep
It’s showing
Best spin doctors....:clapping
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Some of the best in the business
Yep
It’s showing
Don’t worry about that quote - he has to say that
“there's been ones that we've been frustrated by - soft tissues - which we want to get better at”
This is the telling quote. Points directly at change.
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This bloke should be the first cut. Before any player or coach
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Him or his team. Sometimes your issue is those around you which we discovered with the coaching panel in 2016.
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Livingstone in charge of the day to day running of the footy club his made far to many blews and needs accountability.
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I got the feel that we might be looking for new people in the S&C team to manage our players
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Darren Burgess' name has been linked with a return to Victoria for some time. Does this open the door for a Carlton approach? Burgess and Michael Voss have worked together before. Burgess is in contract at the Crows, having recently knocked back interest from Football Australia.
https://x.com/CalTwomey/status/1821418143082000675
Surley the Tigs are knocking on Burgess door as well?
https://x.com/nickjanssen25/status/1821426456544837785
Tigers should be first in line for burgess.
https://x.com/espocris1/status/1821418239945220444
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Carltons current guy is gone according to the mid-week tackle
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Darren Burgess' name has been linked with a return to Victoria for some time. Does this open the door for a Carlton approach? Burgess and Michael Voss have worked together before. Burgess is in contract at the Crows, having recently knocked back interest from Football Australia.
https://x.com/CalTwomey/status/1821418143082000675
Surley the Tigs are knocking on Burgess door as well?
https://x.com/nickjanssen25/status/1821426456544837785
Tigers should be first in line for burgess.
https://x.com/espocris1/status/1821418239945220444
I'd take him back
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Darren Burgess' name has been linked with a return to Victoria for some time. Does this open the door for a Carlton approach? Burgess and Michael Voss have worked together before. Burgess is in contract at the Crows, having recently knocked back interest from Football Australia.
https://x.com/CalTwomey/status/1821418143082000675
Surley the Tigs are knocking on Burgess door as well?
https://x.com/nickjanssen25/status/1821426456544837785
Tigers should be first in line for burgess.
https://x.com/espocris1/status/1821418239945220444
I'd take him back
Andyy,
I think you're confusing him with our previous fitness chief Peter Burge who's at Hawthorn
IIRC, we tried to get Burgess once before ... but we got Burge instead
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Correct. Burgess was the hot ticket and we just signed a bloke who had a similar name and it ended up working out for us
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Correct. Burgess was the hot ticket and we just signed a bloke who had a similar name and it ended up working out for us
Will probably end up with Baby John Burgess this time.... :shh
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:shh :shh
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Darren Burgess' name has been linked with a return to Victoria for some time. Does this open the door for a Carlton approach? Burgess and Michael Voss have worked together before. Burgess is in contract at the Crows, having recently knocked back interest from Football Australia.
https://x.com/CalTwomey/status/1821418143082000675
Surley the Tigs are knocking on Burgess door as well?
https://x.com/nickjanssen25/status/1821426456544837785
Tigers should be first in line for burgess.
https://x.com/espocris1/status/1821418239945220444
I'd take him back
Andyy,
I think you're confusing him with our previous fitness chief Peter Burge who's at Hawthorn
IIRC, we tried to get Burgess once before ... but we got Burge instead
Thanks for that WP
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I’ve had quite a bit to do with Grant Burge
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We should try and entice Rob Inness back to the club from Sydney, IMO there is a certainly a clear decline in our fitness appearance and S&C with particularly with return from injuries and amount of re occurrence has certainly increased
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I'm surprised with only 3 rounds to go we haven't heard anything about this bloke getting the sack.
His position is surely the most untenable at the club?
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Might have to sack Livingston first. He thinks Louie is one of the best in the business
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The man responsible for Meehan Magic is rumoured to be looking at a new three year deal
“If it’s good enough for Samson, then why not? Other clubs are sniffing.”
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Scared for this club
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The man responsible for Meehan Magic is rumoured to be looking at a new three year deal
“If it’s good enough for Samson, then why not? Other clubs are sniffing.”
It’s only Dimma sniffing - no one else. He is welcome to him.
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The man responsible for Meehan Magic is rumoured to be looking at a new three year deal
“If it’s good enough for Samson, then why not? Other clubs are sniffing.”
It’s only Dimma sniffing - no one else. He is welcome to him.
I should have inserted something like
:sarcasm2 :sarcasm2 :sarcasm :sarcasm
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We should try and entice Rob Inness back to the club from Sydney, IMO there is a certainly a clear decline in our fitness appearance and S&C with particularly with return from injuries and amount of re occurrence has certainly increased
We couldn't afford to keep Innes because of the soft cap penalty which seemingly didn't effect Sydney who just employed quality people clubs like ours were not willing to keep. :rollin
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Correct. Burgess was the hot ticket and we just signed a bloke who had a similar name and it ended up working out for us
Will probably end up with Baby John Burgess this time.... :shh
Would prefer ugly Dave Grey. More charismatic
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Correct. Burgess was the hot ticket and we just signed a bloke who had a similar name and it ended up working out for us
Will probably end up with Baby John Burgess this time.... :shh
Would prefer ugly Dave Grey. More charismatic
Didn't we just take him in the MSD? :shh
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Yze lamented the sheer number of injuries the club had to contend with in his first season at the helm, and will be focused on preventing such a massive injury list next year.
"There's some management around our soft tissue that we weren't good enough as a club, let alone our fitness staff, then there's obviously the guys that have gone and done a knee or rolled ankles and things like that. So, there's ones that you can't control," Yze said.
"When you add all those things up, we've had a horrendous season on the injury front, so yeah, we'll be looking at all those things and as a footy club, that's what we need to do.
"We've got to have best practice in coaching, fitness, and training."
Source: AFL website (https://www.afl.com.au/news/1203152/richmond-tigers-duo-liam-baker-jack-graham-set-to-make-decisions-high-praise-for-gold-coast-suns-pair-sam-flanders-bodhi-uwland).
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Yze lamented the sheer number of injuries the club had to contend with in his first season at the helm, and will be focused on preventing such a massive injury list next year.
"There's some management around our soft tissue that we weren't good enough as a club, let alone our fitness staff, then there's obviously the guys that have gone and done a knee or rolled ankles and things like that. So, there's ones that you can't control," Yze said.
"When you add all those things up, we've had a horrendous season on the injury front, so yeah, we'll be looking at all those things and as a footy club, that's what we need to do.
"We've got to have best practice in coaching, fitness, and training."
Source: AFL website (https://www.afl.com.au/news/1203152/richmond-tigers-duo-liam-baker-jack-graham-set-to-make-decisions-high-praise-for-gold-coast-suns-pair-sam-flanders-bodhi-uwland).
Been saying it since day one and finally he opened his mouth. Magic the duds position is untenable
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Glad someone finally said something damning.
Hopefully this potato is dumped like he should be.
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Gone :thumbsup
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Gone :thumbsup
Officially??
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https://x.com/cleary_mitch/status/1827939737098956863
:dancing :dancing :dancing
edited for clear baiting.
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Will be “sorely” missed
Thanks for the memories
:cheers :cheers :cheers
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Well we are making all the right moves so far. Very positive signs
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Don't let the door hit you on the way out haha
Thank goodness
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https://x.com/cleary_mitch/status/1827939737098956863
:dancing :dancing :dancing
edited for clear baiting.
If your clear baiting was directed at any other poster but me you'd be receiving strike
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Luke Meehan to depart Richmond
Luke Meehan has made the decision to depart Richmond, following 12 years with the Club.
By Richmond Media
1 hr ago
Richmond’s Physical Performance Manager, Luke Meehan, has made the decision to step away from the Club after 12 years working in the football department.
Meehan initially joined Richmond from the Western Bulldogs ahead of the 2013 season, having also spent time at Geelong.
The experienced AFL strength, conditioning, and physical performance coach has held the Physical Performance Manager role at the Club for the past two seasons.
Meehan had previously been Richmond’s strength and conditioning coach for a decade.
Richmond General Manager, Football Performance Tim Livingstone, thanked Meehan for his contribution to the Club, highlighted by his integral role in three premierships and eight finals campaigns.
“Luke has been a valued member of our football program for more than a decade, and his expertise has been a key part of what we have achieved as a Club,” he said.
“Having concluded the season, Luke has decided he is ready for a change, and has informed us that he will look at different opportunities for 2025 and beyond.
“We thank Luke and his family for all they have given to the Club and wish them all the best for the future.”
https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/1640286/luke-meehan-to-depart-richmond
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Burgess leaves the dees and they all a sudden can’t finish off teams in the second half.
I expect much of the same in 2023 from us, unless we start loading up in this department. Not replacing inness cost us games this year. Look at the swans. Flying.
Rob Inness was our rehab guy
Correct.
How many repeat injuries did we have this year?
Yet we want to be tightarses, and rather spend money on other areas which have little
influence to our onfield performance.
Can tell you know if we want to load up on hopper with the rubbish we dished out this year, then expect more rehab time for that kid.
If we end up with Luke as our main man then we would be making a big mistake as he was part of this years problem.
:shh
The dud is out.
Off season is starting well for Oze. I have the feeling he waited until the final siren before telling us what he really thought of magic hands. More of that ruthless attitude with the players :thumbsup
Also no more of this soft cap rubbish some posters keep crapping on about.
Go out and get the best.
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His position was untenable. I wonder if the club said go or be fired.
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His position was untenable. I wonder if the club said go or be fired.
Can bet your ballsack on it
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def.
Watch Yzes presser. I bet he had been waiting a long time to tell us what he thought of the dud.
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Horst: Attention workers, we have completed our evaluation of the plant. We regret to announce the following lay-offs, which I will read in alphabetical order:
[pause]
Horst: Meehan, Magic.
[pause]
Horst: That is all.
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I wish the best and maybe it was just bad luck🫣, BUT ,hopefully he gets the top job at Collingwood or better still Carlton ,
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The last two years have been below standard.
Have to give him credit. He was part of the system and structure that gave us 3 flags. 2013 he joined, unsure if he had much to do with getting Grimes right, but that was a huge piece of the puzzle of our dynasty.
Wish him well.
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The last two years have been below standard.
Have to give him credit. He was part of the system and structure that gave us 3 flags. 2013 he joined, unsure if he had much to do with getting Grimes right, but that was a huge piece of the puzzle of our dynasty.
Wish him well.
Evidence from the last two years would suggest he had nothing to do with getting anyone right
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The last two years have been below standard.
Have to give him credit. He was part of the system and structure that gave us 3 flags. 2013 he joined, unsure if he had much to do with getting Grimes right, but that was a huge piece of the puzzle of our dynasty.
Wish him well.
Evidence from the last two years would suggest he had nothing to do with getting anyone right
I'm more giving him credit for his work pre main gig. I'm glad to see him be replaced but being part of the strength and conditioning pre and during our dynasty I'd happily tip my hat to him.
Happy of the result and someone fresh comes in with more experience at the top job of performance.
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The jump from being a support act to being the head can be too much for some. Look at all the great assistants who faltered when they became senior coaches. I suspect luke and the club overestimated Luke’s abilities and that lead us to this poo storm we’re currently in
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Richmond will target Adelaide Fitness Boss Darren Burgess.
Darren Burgess is set to depart Adelaide and move to Victoria, Carlton are also heavily tracking the fitness boss.
most likely going to Carlton, but still were in the mix
https://x.com/CameronHicks__/status/1829402490506539229
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Carlton have hired Rob Inness so leaves us open for Burgess.
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:banghead
Were we asleep at the wheel again?
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I still maintain that barring 2017, we had PLENTY of injury issues during our dynasty years when Inness was heading up our fitness program, we were just so damn good that we could cover for our best22 players being out as long as they came back for the business end of the season. Not as bad as the shitshow that was this season, but I don’t think we were by any means setting the industry standard back then either.
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:banghead
Were we asleep at the wheel again?
Depends if we get Burgess you'd say no ;D
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CROWS EXPECT TO RETAIN FITNESS GURU
ADELAIDE is expecting to retain high-performance boss Darren Burgess for 2025, amid strong interest in Victoria.
The highly rated fitness guru has attracted enquiries from at least three Victorian clubs, including Carlton and Richmond, but is contracted at West Lakes for next season.
The Crows have been planning for the off-season and pre-season with Burgess and have received no indication that he will depart the club.
Carlton has been on the hunt for a new high-performance boss following the departure of Andrew Russell, but has appointed Rob Inness from Sydney.
Geelong is also in the market, with physical performance manager Scott Murphy departing at the end of the season for a role at Rugby Australia.
Sydney will now be another in the hunt for a fitness boss in the pre-season.
Burgess is one of the leading high-performance managers in the country, starting at Sydney in the late 90s before stints at Port Adelaide, Football Federation Australia, Liverpool, Arsenal and Melbourne, before returning to South Australia to be closer to his children at the end of 2021. – Josh Gabelich
https://www.afl.com.au/news/1211422/inside-trading-tigers-up-bid-for-flag-star-suns-open-to-luko-move-giants-made-to-wait
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FFS - sack Livingston he is completely stuffen useless. If Innes was available we should have got him
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Reported on SEN this morning that Carlton have managed to poach Rob Inness from the Swans.
Formerly with us and squeezed our during Covid.
Would have been great to get him back, but if Burgess is on the move we are well placed!
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Squeezing out our fitness legend, surely someone else should have got the boot before him.
Port reckon they've got Burgess for 2025, he's contracted too. We'll see...
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Update here: Grocks source just updated that Crows are making last ditch counter offer to keep Burgess.
His source feels like he will still sign with us though but isn't as strong as it was over the weekend.
Keeping everything crossed!
https://x.com/BFtigercast/status/1831510810667241916
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Reported on SEN this morning that Carlton have managed to poach Rob Inness from the Swans.
Formerly with us and squeezed our during Covid.
Would have been great to get him back, but if Burgess is on the move we are well placed!
:help :help :help :help :help :help :help :help
This bloody soft cap bullcrap is doing my head in. Surely with Yze we are paying way under it anyway. Why on earth didn't we offer this bloke some huge coin??
Why on earth are we acting like a poor club? :banghead :banghead :banghead
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Reported on SEN this morning that Carlton have managed to poach Rob Inness from the Swans.
Formerly with us and squeezed our during Covid.
Would have been great to get him back, but if Burgess is on the move we are well placed!
:help :help :help :help :help :help :help :help
This bloody soft cap bullcrap is doing my head in. Surely with Yze we are paying way under it anyway. Why on earth didn't we offer this bloke some huge coin??
Why on earth are we acting like a poor club? :banghead :banghead :banghead
This stuffing redevelopment shambles has a lot to do with things IMO........ :lightning
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This stuffing redevelopment shambles has a lot to do with things IMO........ :lightning
Serious question - how?
We pay the full soft cap. Where it gets spent is clearly the issue that is "doing people's heads in" and whether we should over spend and pay the tax
The redevelopment has nothing to do with it if we are paying the entire soft cap which as I said we are
How much cash reserves we use for the redevelopment is irrelevant to the soft cap.
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This stuffing redevelopment shambles has a lot to do with things IMO........ :lightning
Serious question - how?
We pay the full soft cap. Where it gets spent is clearly the issue that is "doing people's heads in" and whether we should over spend and pay the tax
The redevelopment has nothing to do with it if we are paying the entire soft cap which as I said we are
How much cash reserves we use for the redevelopment is irrelevant to the soft cap.
sorry i dont buy it. We may have paid the full soft cap this year, but if it wasnt for the shambles that is that redevelopment and the delays brought on by blokes at the club who had checked out, then maybe we would have other cash to pay the luxury tax.
we are skimming big time because of this redevelopment which is probably why they hired Magic Luke :shh
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This stuffing redevelopment shambles has a lot to do with things IMO........ :lightning
Serious question - how?
We pay the full soft cap. Where it gets spent is clearly the issue that is "doing people's heads in" and whether we should over spend and pay the tax
The redevelopment has nothing to do with it if we are paying the entire soft cap which as I said we are
How much cash reserves we use for the redevelopment is irrelevant to the soft cap.
What in the world are we spending it on?
Yze should be on basic starters wages and an average support team led by rejected former failed coaches (ie.Teague, Rutten) and a newbie (Zeibel), surely Newman isn't getting all the money?
Or is Maric got unlimited funds to find ways to recruit all his ubiquitous cousins? :help
A second rate development team led by Morris. :help
We lost our recruiting head to West Coke Eagles. :help
We had an inadequate fitness department head led by a former secondary to the assistant. :help
We just had our WORST season ever. :banghead
It's absolutely mindboggling. :pullhair :scared
I'm really losing confidence in Tim.
Where's is all this soft cap money spent???? :help
-
I'd imagine just about every club spends the full amount in their soft cap, the point here is that we're a big club with a huge membership base and we should be able to afford to go over the soft cap and pay the the tax.....unless there are other factors at play... :shh :whistle
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:shh :shh
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If we are paying the full soft cap and say more resources are being put into player development or leadership etc rather than say the health and fitness side, which is better?
If there’s an X amount we have to spend how would people here split that up?
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I think vast majority needs to be in player development. Especially if we have 5 top draft picks this year. It's essential those boys become the foundation of our list for the next 10 years.
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I'd imagine just about every club spends the full amount in their soft cap, the point here is that we're a big club with a huge membership base and we should be able to afford to go over the soft cap and pay the the tax.....unless there are other factors at play... :shh :whistle
So again serious question
Let's go down the path of paying over the cap. Remembering for nearly dollar over we have to pay the equivalent in the soft cap tax
So how much should we over spend by? Put a number on it
Keep in mind also what our average profits have been over the 4 years because overspend by $500k then it is $1mil off the bottom line etc... so being profitable is at risk ...
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I think vast majority needs to be in player development. Especially if we have 5 top draft picks this year. It's essential those boys become the foundation of our list for the next 10 years.
My take on it is it should be the other way around. If you have top talent in theory they don’t need to be coached as much so they need to just stay on the park. So we need the best fitness and conditioning staff. Eg. Gibcus If you have lots of players outside of first round I’d say we need development as they have less “footy smarts” eg. Balta.
-
I'd imagine just about every club spends the full amount in their soft cap, the point here is that we're a big club with a huge membership base and we should be able to afford to go over the soft cap and pay the the tax.....unless there are other factors at play... :shh :whistle
So again serious question
Let's go down the path of paying over the cap. Remembering for nearly dollar over we have to pay the equivalent in the soft cap tax
So how much should we over spend by? Put a number on it
Keep in mind also what our average profits have been over the 4 years because overspend by $500k then it is $1mil off the bottom line etc... so being profitable is at risk ...
Spending over the cap should improve our football department which in turn should improve our team and guess what - if you start winning, you tend to make higher profits.... :shh
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Not sure if it’s been mentioned but how many clubs last year went over the soft cap limit and who were they?
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I'd imagine just about every club spends the full amount in their soft cap, the point here is that we're a big club with a huge membership base and we should be able to afford to go over the soft cap and pay the the tax.....unless there are other factors at play... :shh :whistle
So again serious question
Let's go down the path of paying over the cap. Remembering for nearly dollar over we have to pay the equivalent in the soft cap tax
So how much should we over spend by? Put a number on it
Keep in mind also what our average profits have been over the 4 years because overspend by $500k then it is $1mil off the bottom line etc... so being profitable is at risk ...
Spending over the cap should improve our football department which in turn should improve our team and guess what - if you start winning, you tend to make higher profits.... :shh
You didn't answer the question, how much should they go over the cap by? It's not a hard question.
Not sure why you won't put a figure on it?
Yes winning can increase profits but would it be enough to cover the extra costs?
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I'd imagine just about every club spends the full amount in their soft cap, the point here is that we're a big club with a huge membership base and we should be able to afford to go over the soft cap and pay the the tax.....unless there are other factors at play... :shh :whistle
So again serious question
Let's go down the path of paying over the cap. Remembering for nearly dollar over we have to pay the equivalent in the soft cap tax
So how much should we over spend by? Put a number on it
Keep in mind also what our average profits have been over the 4 years because overspend by $500k then it is $1mil off the bottom line etc... so being profitable is at risk ...
Spending over the cap should improve our football department which in turn should improve our team and guess what - if you start winning, you tend to make higher profits.... :shh
You didn't answer the question, how much should they go over the cap by? It's not a hard question.
Not sure why you won't put a figure on it?
Yes winning can increase profits but would it be enough to cover the extra costs?
Why am I required to give you an exact figure?How much profit did we make during the dynasty years? Think it was over 4 million in each of 2018 & 2019 I'm sure that would more than cover it....or do you think I'm suggesting we go 10 million over or something ......why are you so sceptical/concerned about it anyway if you reckon everything is hunky dory and the redevelopment isn't a factor...or don't you think a club our size could manage it and why don't you? How much do think some other clubs are going over by and why can they but we can't? :shh
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Why am I required to give you an exact figure?
You and granted others keep saying we should overspend on the cap but no one seems to be prepared to give a number. It's fine to say overspend but surely there needs to be a limit
So I asked the question. TBH I am not sure why you seem to be offended that I asked.
How much profit did we make during the dynasty years? Think it was over 4 million in each of 2018 & 2019 I'm sure that would more than cover it
How do you come up with profits from 5-6 years ago will “more than cover it” in 2024 or beyond??
Our “dynasty years” I would say were 2017 to 2020. The soft cap was slashed by HQ in 2021so anything prior to that is not really relevant
Here are the Profits 2017 to 2023:
2017 $3.1 mil
2018 $4.2 mil
2019 $4.1 mil
2020 $217k (included $10.8 mil in job keeper)
2021 $3.2 mil (includes $3.7 job keeper and state govt grant for the redevelopment of $2 mil
2022 $2.2 mil (includes $8mil state govt funding for the redevelopment)
2023 $2.3 mil
So yes the 2 seasons you mentioned $4mil profits were recorded but a fair whack of that was used to finance 2020 with the help of job keeper.
So far we have received over $15mil from the State Govt for the redevelopment. That money cannot be spent on anything else but the redevelopment. Ditto with any funding from the federal government. Any monies through the Aust Sports Foundation (FTF now the Strong & Bold Foundation) can only be used for the redevelopment.
It was even mentioned in the 2023 financials that the 2023 result included “significant contributions to the redevelopment”. Again this means those funds cannot be used for anything but the redevelopment. I really hope that people understand that. You may not like it but there are legal conditions attached to those funds
or do you think I'm suggesting we go 10 million over or something ......
No, I don’t but I have no idea how you or anyone else thinks we should over spend by. Over spend by $500k and it costs you $1mil. Over spend by $1 mil and it costs you $2mil
During the course of this season I have read people wanting contracted assistant coaches sacked, the magic man sacked, we lost Matt Clark so use his wage etc …and have used we are big club we can afford it without considering the ramifications of doing it. People see the cash in the bank figure and think it can just be spent on anything. Well guess what it can’t.
why are you so sceptical/concerned about it anyway if you reckon everything is hunky dory and the redevelopment isn't a factor...or don't you think a club our size could manage it and why don't you?
The redevelopment isn’t a factor because the funds received for the development aren’t available for use for anything but the redevelopment.
I actually think the Club is doing the right thing by not over spending especially in 2024 when we’ve had a horrific season on field because it will impact on the bottom line. Drop in membership, low crowds… let’s see in a couple of months where things land.
As I’ve said many times we pay the full soft cap the issue isn’t whether we should over spend but what are we spending it on. Are we spending in the right areas. My personal view is that we haven’t and I’ve said multiple times that but no one ever acknowledges that.
Bottom line is none of us have any idea where the soft cap is being spread we are just guessing.
How much do think some other clubs are going over by and why can they but we can't? :shh
It has been well documented only 2 Clubs have over spent the soft cap since it was slashed and paid the soft cap tax. And for both it has only been for one season
They are Hawthorn who had to pay Clarkson over a million bucks to sit on his backside.
Essendon is the other because of the payout to Rutten
Up until the end of 2023 no other CLub has over spent.
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I mentioned the dynasty years profits as a reference to the kind of profits we can expect when we're successful - which is the pay off when you invest in the football department....as we're a Football Club first & foremost that should be the priority as everything else flows from that..dunno why such a supposedly big club with recent huge success, record breaking membership & attendances should be penny pinching as if we're still in the midst of lockdowns & lay-offs....... :shh
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I mentioned the dynasty years profits as a reference to the kind of profits we can expect when we're successful - which is the pay off when you invest in the football department....as we're a Football Club first & foremost that should be the priority as everything else flows from that..dunno why such a supposedly big club with recent huge success, record breaking membership & attendances should be penny pinching as if we're still in the midst of lockdowns & lay-offs....... :shh
Fair call but as you and many on here have pointed out the dynasty era is over and we are in for a lot of pain for a period of time. So the profits are not necessarily going to be there short term. Our record membership days are done short term, we lost around 7k members on 2024, that's approx $200k on top of that a number who remained dropped their type of membership down. Lower home crowds, could cost anywhere up to a $500k to $1mil....
As for penny pinching, I don't think being fiscally responsible is such a bad thing (yes the ex accountant in me talking). It is a very fine line
Finally, I hope people understand what is covered under the soft cap. It is much more than the people in it.
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I don’t think it should be necessary while Yze is coach. Surely he’s on hundred’s of thousands less than Dimma? Where’s those savings gone? I am an advocate of a temporary over spending of the cap to rebalance our costs - ie. spend at the cap now and should be have success then pay out a bonus to coach or coaches which becomes the overspend. The overspend becomes self generating because success bring in revenue and in turn profit.
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I think the pies went over the cap soon after a flag as well. They def were on record speaking about getting better and utilizing their profits.
Also not sure anyone suggested using government funds, but that's not all of the surplus or redevelopment funds we had now is it.
I really believe we have stuffed this up,. The delays of punt road have eaten into all our profits. As a result, we have had to skim, and not invest where we should have or pay good money to good operators.
The crowds have disappeared because of the way the club has fallen apart. Hiring blokes like Meehan was not a good look. Many on this site knew it and its cost the club a year of injuries and fallen profits.
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Apologies I got the estimated drop in total members wrong. We are only down just 3k from last year
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I don’t think it should be necessary while Yze is coach. Surely he’s on hundred’s of thousands less than Dimma? Where’s those savings gone? I am an advocate of a temporary over spending of the cap to rebalance our costs - ie. spend at the cap now and should be have success then pay out a bonus to coach or coaches which becomes the overspend. The overspend becomes self generating because success bring in revenue and in turn profit.
I would think the cost of 2 new assistants would have been covered by the Dimma savings
We replaced Matt Clark so no saving there.
They bought in 2 new coaches to the VFL program, so some of the savings would have gone there
I think the pies went over the cap soon after a flag as well. They def were on record speaking about getting better and utilizing their profits.
Also not sure anyone suggested using government funds, but that's not all of the surplus or redevelopment funds we had now is it.
I really believe we have stuffed this up,. The delays of punt road have eaten into all our profits. As a result, we have had to skim, and not invest where we should have or pay good money to good operators.
The crowds have disappeared because of the way the club has fallen apart. Hiring blokes like Meehan was not a good look. Many on this site knew it and its cost the club a year of injuries and fallen profits.
Frankie just found an article about the Pies on Reddit, it suggests they are planning on overspending by $500k in 2025 and the tax on that would be $375k, so total cost is $875k
I'm not sure what you mean by "that's not all of the surplus or redevelopment funds we had now is it."
The redevelopment funds are the redevelopment funds. Club has built up its cash reserves to enable it to put an amout towards the redevelopment which they have said they were going to do. They want to minimise the need to borrow. That's smart business. They actually been very smart generating income on their cash reserves. But any income generated (interest) on the funds received from the govt must be put towards to the redevelopment
The single biggest issue with the redevelopment is the fact that they still haven't started it. Even allowing for the delays caused by the court case bought on by people trying to block the demolitions the JD stand it should have started by now.
Having said that and I've said this many times I really don't see any connect between the redevelopment and the club not over spending on the soft cap. I get people don't like it but I get why they've chosen not to. To this former accountant says it makes sense.
But I'll revisit it again after we know what sort of profit the Club makes after the horror show that was season 2024 ;D
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I really don't understand what's going on.
Facts are that Hardwick bailed in 2023 so we didn't have to pay the big dollars he was probably getting anymore.
McQualter was already on a wage so there's some savings whilst he was assistant/coach.
We lost Kingsley in 2022 to GWS so that was a savings.
We lost Rob Innes to Sydney in 2021 (how fit are the Swans now?) who could magically pay him money we couldn't spend. He was actually poached from us by Sydney.
We got Yze who has just coached our worst season ever so he should be on the lowest wages in the AFL.
Rutten left as assistant in 2019 and we took him back as an assistant in 2022 so no reason he should be on big money.
In 2022 we got the dud ex coach from the Cheats to be our assistant so you'd expect him to be on very low wages for doing absolutely nothing for us.
We lost the expert high performance manager Peter Burge to the hawks (how fit are the Hawks now?) in 2022 so a significant savings for us.
We had an assistant fitness bloke get the fitness gig so no big money there and the fact that he was such a flop proves we should have only been paying him basic wages.
We just lost our recruiting head for west coke.
We got zeibel who is new should be on starter wages. We got Newman from the hawks as an assistant and he isn't a huge name.
Kane Lambert has left so that's also a savings.
So that leaves Tim and Blair
Can someone please explain to me who or what we are paying the full cap on????
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I really don't understand what's going on.
Facts are that Hardwick bailed in 2023 so we didn't have to pay the big dollars he was probably getting anymore.
McQualter was already on a wage so there's some savings whilst he was assistant/coach.
We lost Kingsley in 2022 to GWS so that was a savings.
We lost Rob Innes to Sydney in 2021 (how fit are the Swans now?) who could magically pay him money we couldn't spend. He was actually poached from us by Sydney.
We got Yze who has just coached our worst season ever so he should be on the lowest wages in the AFL.
Rutten left as assistant in 2019 and we took him back as an assistant in 2022 so no reason he should be on big money.
In 2022 we got the dud ex coach from the Cheats to be our assistant so you'd expect him to be on very low wages for doing absolutely nothing for us.
We lost the expert high performance manager Peter Burge to the hawks (how fit are the Hawks now?) in 2022 so a significant savings for us.
We had an assistant fitness bloke get the fitness gig so no big money there and the fact that he was such a flop proves we should have only been paying him basic wages.
We just lost our recruiting head for west coke.
We got zeibel who is new should be on starter wages. We got Newman from the hawks as an assistant and he isn't a huge name.
Kane Lambert has left so that's also a savings.
So that leaves Tim and Blair
Can someone please explain to me who or what we are paying the full cap on????
Probably club administrators and accountants😰😰
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I really don't understand what's going on.
Facts are that Hardwick bailed in 2023 so we didn't have to pay the big dollars he was probably getting anymore.
McQualter was already on a wage so there's some savings whilst he was assistant/coach.
We lost Kingsley in 2022 to GWS so that was a savings.
We lost Rob Innes to Sydney in 2021 (how fit are the Swans now?) who could magically pay him money we couldn't spend. He was actually poached from us by Sydney.
We got Yze who has just coached our worst season ever so he should be on the lowest wages in the AFL.
Rutten left as assistant in 2019 and we took him back as an assistant in 2022 so no reason he should be on big money.
In 2022 we got the dud ex coach from the Cheats to be our assistant so you'd expect him to be on very low wages for doing absolutely nothing for us.
We lost the expert high performance manager Peter Burge to the hawks (how fit are the Hawks now?) in 2022 so a significant savings for us.
We had an assistant fitness bloke get the fitness gig so no big money there and the fact that he was such a flop proves we should have only been paying him basic wages.
We just lost our recruiting head for west coke.
We got zeibel who is new should be on starter wages. We got Newman from the hawks as an assistant and he isn't a huge name.
Kane Lambert has left so that's also a savings.
So that leaves Tim and Blair
Can someone please explain to me who or what we are paying the full cap on????
Probably club administrators and accountants😰😰
Firstly the soft cap is foot department only. Nothing to do with the admin of the accountants
Tigeritis you keep going on about savings but you neglect (refuse) to acknowledge the entire picture
You said Matt Clarke left for WC but he has been replaced so no saving
You said Kingsley left but he was replaced by Teague, so again no saving there
McQualter left and was replaced by 2 new coaches so no saving there
Lambert has only just left and as yet hasn't been replaced but will be
Teague has gone and has been replaced by Caracella, no savings there more likely extra cost
You bang on about Innes but he left when the soft cap was first cut. He got a job as the head of S&C at Sydney when the same job was not available at Richmond as we had Burge. Burge left after Innes was appointed at Sydney. Burge was not pushed out the door he walked out the door.
Did the Club stuff up appointing Meehan absolutely but to keep going on about the job should have gone to Innes is foolish.
You keep making assumptions on what or what level each assistant should be paid. Personally I think your assumptions are way off but hey that's just me and what would I know
With the utmost respect I do wonder if people really know what is covered under the soft cap? Everyone knows about the coaches, recruiting, medical staff, S&C, the admin part of the footy dept (e.g. Blair and Livo) but what about the rest of the costs?
There's the VFL program, recruiting scouts across the country, costs for interstate trips, equipment costs, IT costs, medical costs (e.g. scans, equipment) the list goes on.
I keep banging on about this but we don't know where it's getting spent, would be great to know but we don't.
I have a theory around the soft cap which I've been researching for a while now but haven't got the definitive answer I'm looking for. Once I do, if I do ;D I'll share
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I'll be keen to know what you can find out WP.
But there's nothing wrong with asking the questions.
Hardwick would have been on huge coin with three premierships. Surely Yze isn't on the same coin.
Burge left and we had Meehan step up so I doubt very much he was on the same money as Burge.
So essentially I'm just flabbergasted we would be paying full soft cap with who we've got at the club that I mentioned on the previous post.
Now if you did fond out we spent it on an extra six or seven full time expert recruiters knowing we would be in this rebuilding phase then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
........unless they fluffed it on draft day. :help
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It's hard to work out but I'd be fascinated to compare our Soft cap spending vs others.
A bit like the actual salary cap. Are we doing a Carlton and over paying too few? Are we doing a Freo and over spending on wrong areas 2 rucks at 2.5 mil a year is not good cap spending. Have we done this with Blair and Tim, with all due respect? Are other clubs spending half the soft cap on these roles?
Be interesting to see differences.
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I really don't understand what's going on.
Facts are that Hardwick bailed in 2023 so we didn't have to pay the big dollars he was probably getting anymore.
McQualter was already on a wage so there's some savings whilst he was assistant/coach.
We lost Kingsley in 2022 to GWS so that was a savings.
We lost Rob Innes to Sydney in 2021 (how fit are the Swans now?) who could magically pay him money we couldn't spend. He was actually poached from us by Sydney.
We got Yze who has just coached our worst season ever so he should be on the lowest wages in the AFL.
Rutten left as assistant in 2019 and we took him back as an assistant in 2022 so no reason he should be on big money.
In 2022 we got the dud ex coach from the Cheats to be our assistant so you'd expect him to be on very low wages for doing absolutely nothing for us.
We lost the expert high performance manager Peter Burge to the hawks (how fit are the Hawks now?) in 2022 so a significant savings for us.
We had an assistant fitness bloke get the fitness gig so no big money there and the fact that he was such a flop proves we should have only been paying him basic wages.
We just lost our recruiting head for west coke.
We got zeibel who is new should be on starter wages. We got Newman from the hawks as an assistant and he isn't a huge name.
Kane Lambert has left so that's also a savings.
So that leaves Tim and Blair
Can someone please explain to me who or what we are paying the full cap on????
Probably club administrators and accountants😰😰
Firstly the soft cap is foot department only. Nothing to do with the admin of the account
Tigeritis you keep going on about savings but you neglect (refuse) to acknowledge to the entire picture
You said Matt Clarke left for WC but he has been replaced so no saving
You said Kingsley left but he was replaced by Teague, so again no saving there
McQualter left and was replaced by 2 new coaches so no saving there
Lambert has only just left and as yet hasn't been replaced but will be
Teague has gone and has been replaced by Caracella, no savings there more likely extra cost
You bang on about Innes but he left when the soft cap was first cut. He got a job as the head of S&C at Sydney when the sane job was hot available at Richmond as we had Burge. Burge left after Innes was appointed at Sydney. Burge was not pushed out the door he walked out the door.
Did the Cub stuff up appointing Meehan absolutely but to keep going on about the job should have gone to Innes is foolish.
You keep making assumptions on what or what level each assistant should be paid. Personally I think your assumptions are way off but hey that's just me and what would I know
With the utmost respect I do wonder if people really know what is covered under the soft cap? Everyone knows about the coaches, recruiting, medical staff, S&C, the admin part of the footy dept (e.g. Blair and Livo) but what about the rest of the costs?
There's the VFL program, recruiting scouts across the country, costs for interstate trips, equipment costs, IT costs, medical costs (e.g. scans, equipment) the list goes on.
I keep banging on about this but we don't know where it's getting spent, would be great to know but we don't.
I have a theory around the soft cap which I've been researching for a while now but haven't got the definitive answer I'm looking for. Once I do, if I do ;D I'll share
:bow