One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on October 19, 2023, 04:40:37 AM
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From the HeraldSun:
Richmond Tigers
IN: Jacob Koschitzke (Hawthorn)
OUT: Ivan Soldo (Port Adelaide), Bigoa Nyuon (North Melbourne)
PICKS: 29, 41, 65, 68
After Jack Riewoldt’s retirement and with a lingering injury cloud over Tom Lynch, the Tigers needed to add another key forward to their list and did that with Kochitzke. He is a 196cm forward who at 23 years old is still developing but has shown promise. Richmond didn’t want to lose Soldo, but eventually budged on the ruckman and let him have his wish to join Port Adelaide in a deal that boosted the Tigers’ draft hand both this year and next year and was ultimately too good to ignore. There could be issues if co-captain Toby Nankerivs is wiped out by injury or suspension next year, though.
Expert Rating (Chris Cavanagh): 6
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Sydney 9.5
Collingwood 9
Essendon 9
Port Adel. 8.5
North Melb. 8
W.Bulldogs 8
Brisbane 7.5
Carlton 7
Hawthorn 7
Adelaide 6.5
St Kilda 6.5
Geelong 6
Richmond 6
West Coast 6
Gold Coast 5
GWS Giants 5
Melbourne 5
Fremantle 4
https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/afl-trade-period-2023-every-clubs-ins-outs-and-rating/news-story/884f669503803f5a7b821e64914544db
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From The Age:
14. Richmond
In: Jacob Koschitzke (Hawthorn/trade), picks 41, 65 and future second-round (Fremantle) and fourth-round (Port Adelaide) picks.
Out: Bigoa Nyuon (North Melbourne/trade), Ivan Soldo (Port Adelaide/trade), pick 50.
Draft picks: 29, 41, 65, 68, 86
Trade grade: C+
Eventually decided to trade Soldo to Port Adelaide for a reasonable price but were otherwise quiet having been big players last season when they recruited midfielders Taranto and Hopper. With a new coach, the list is in transition, but they still remain contenders if Tom Lynch is fit, adding Koschitzke in support.
- Peter Ryan
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1. Sydney A
2. Gold Coast A
3. Port Adel. B+
4. Essendon B
5. Collingwood B
6. St Kilda B
7. Hawthorn B
8. Brisbane B-
9. Melbourne B-
10. North Melb B-
11. W.Bulldogs B-
12. Adelaide C+
13. Carlton C+
14. Richmond C+
15. West Coast C
16. Geelong C-
17. GWS Giants D
18. Fremantle D-
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/only-two-as-who-dominated-the-afl-s-swap-fest-and-who-were-the-big-losers-20231016-p5eco1.html
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Have Richmond done well with limited resources in this trade period?
Watch here: https://twitter.com/traderadio/status/1714578314726166907
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Should have tried to move on Graham and Ralph but I thought we did well in the trades we executed.
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You never know how a new coach can inspire some players…🙏🙏
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You get points for just being active in the trade period, whether the players in or out are duds.
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You get points for just being active in the trade period, whether the players in or out are duds.
Yep.
It's like a competition who can trade the most in or out.
Bollocks
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Didn’t we win last years 😂😂
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Should have tried to move on Graham and Ralph but I thought we did well in the trades we executed.
They are merely depth players. Too much time is spent on them, we know what they deliver and it more than likely won’t cut it in our best 22.
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David King, Leigh Montagna, Sarah Jones and Jon Ralph's review of our trade period and list on Fox Footy:
Watch here: https://twitter.com/TroutWoodend/status/1714573843321491768
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Didn’t we win last years 😂😂
According to the media the Cats did, they went from Premiers to missing the 8. Being trade premiers very rarely = onfield success, just ask the bombers
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Tom Morris rates our trade period the worst.
18 – Richmond
“I think the team that has performed the worst in this off-season so far is Richmond.
“I don't think they've done enough. Yes, they got a future second-rounder for Ivan Soldo.
“But I think for a team that should be regenerating on the run, they should have done more.”
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/10/19/tom-morris-trade-period-ladder-ranking-every-clubs-performance-from-1-to-18/
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I don’t believe in doing trades for the sake of it. Like Essendon always “wins” trade period but where are they now? Like on proven A grade talent for me grundy was the only name and that came with a price tag and not to mention he wanted to go to Sydney anyway.
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Only thing that would be better for me is trading out graham for another R2 this year and Ralph for a fun size pack of skittles
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Tom Morris rates our trade period the worst.
18 – Richmond
“I think the team that has performed the worst in this off-season so far is Richmond.
“I don't think they've done enough. Yes, they got a future second-rounder for Ivan Soldo.
“But I think for a team that should be regenerating on the run, they should have done more.”
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/10/19/tom-morris-trade-period-ladder-ranking-every-clubs-performance-from-1-to-18/
As opposed to the Cats who did one rubbish trade. Their list is older, slower and showing far more signs of fatigue than ours
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Trade report card: Every AFL club graded after hectic finish to 2023 exchange period
Ben Waterworth, Catherine Healey and Ben Cotton
Foxsports
21 October 2023
RICHMOND
Who left: Bigoa Nyuon (trade, North Melbourne), Ivan Soldo (trade, Port Adelaide)
Who arrived: Jacob Koschitzke (trade, Hawthorn)
Draft picks owned: 29, 41, 65, 68
Jon Ralph says: “They lose Ivan Soldo as the back-up ruckman, despite two weeks of denials. They get back Pick 41 and a future second rounder. It’s good enough to let him go if they can get a Scott Lycett as a back-up. Samson Ryan would need to step up (if not). It’s all about the young breed coming through.”
Leigh Montagna says: “They’ve still got so many players, high end talent at 24, 25 (years of age). You talk about (Noah) Balta and (Shai) Bolton, (Liam) Baker and even (Tim) Taranto, (Daniel) Rioli. They’ve still got a lot of guys that are still young enough to be a part of the next phase whenever that is for Richmond. It might be a bit quicker than you think. The Koschitzke one for me – he either just plays a role as a really competitive tall forward that Richmond have been used to bring the ball to ground and allow the smalls to play that style. The other thing to consider – I think Koschitzke would make a great key defender and I’d look at moving maybe a Balta or Gibcus as maybe a permanent forward to work alongside a Tom Lynch for a year or two and then take the reins.”
Foxfooty.com.au trade grade: C
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/department-of-trade/afl-trade-grades-report-card-2023-afl-trade-news-2023-every-club-graded-deals-analysis-draft-picks/news-story/139a2f284a56664f44ddf3bd2b5a8eb1
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I don’t believe in doing trades for the sake of it. Like Essendon always “wins” trade period but where are they now?
Dimma's comments on Essendoom being a bunch of spuds isn't news to anyone that pays attention. There is a reason they haven't won a Final in 6,987 days. But hey, they won trade period again so it's all good down at the Hangar...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9Arks0bQAA9Ded?format=jpg&name=360x360) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9ArlBkaMAANRQE?format=jpg&name=360x360)
https://twitter.com/Jonesracing82/status/1715919376174768494
:yep :lol
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I agree with Tom Morris we just did not do enough despite holding a poor hand to start with.
Did we even look into finding a way to get back into the draft.
Plus despite Koschitzke coming we have gone backwards in a big way as far as addressing our tall stocks go.
We now are bereft of any cover at all if a key forward goes down and its similar with kpd's. To top it off we now lack ruck cover.
That is the tall situation in a nut shell.
The mids situation is not much better. Has any one stopped to look at not only the numbers but the lack of quality outside the few obvious ones.
Tom Morris rates our trade period the worst.
18 – Richmond
“I think the team that has performed the worst in this off-season so far is Richmond.
“I don't think they've done enough. Yes, they got a future second-rounder for Ivan Soldo.
“But I think for a team that should be regenerating on the run, they should have done more.”
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/10/19/tom-morris-trade-period-ladder-ranking-every-clubs-performance-from-1-to-18/
As opposed to the Cats who did one rubbish trade. Their list is older, slower and showing far more signs of fatigue than ours
I dont get it just because you dislike the cats so much it does not mean we are any better off. Similar situation id say when it comes to 24 and unders.
In fact at a guess i would say their 18 - 24 yr olds taken in the ND were taken with mostly better picks than us. Not that that means a lot.
But it should be some sort of guide to their chances of finding better quality than us with the ND picks they have used.
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Cats have had 1 top ten pick and 3 in the top twenty in the past 3 draft.
We’ve had 1 and 4.
But let’s not let facts get in the way of a good bollocking.
Cats had the oldest list in the competition this year.
But again, facts and narrative can be mutually exclusive
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Cats have had 1 top ten pick and 3 in the top twenty in the past 3 draft.
We’ve had 1 and 4.
But let’s not let facts get in the way of a good bollocking.
Cats had the oldest list in the competition this year.
But again, facts and narrative can be mutually exclusive
Lol the last three drafts we have taken just 2 players in the top 20 Gibcus at 9 and Brown at 17.
Why stop after just 3 drafts why not the last 4 or 5 drafts. why just the top 20 lets get our super draft in there from 2021 and make it top 30 after all both clubs have had plenty of picks between 1 and 30. why not just list all picks for both clubs the last 5 seasons. right you didnt do it because a full picture does not suit your narrative and it makes us look bad.
Last 5 drafts
2018 Tiges 20 RCD, 43 Ross, 44 Martin, 58 Turner, 62 Turner.
2018 Cats 15 Clarke, 48 Jarvis, 50 Kennerley, 65 Fort, 68 Tarca, 74 Brownless.
2019 Tiges 21 Dow, 43 Cumberland, 58 Turner, 62 English
2019 Cats 16 Stephens, 19 DeKoning, 41 Evans, 50 Taheny
Last 3 seasons
2020 Tiges 40 Ryan, 51 MRJ,
2020 Cats 20 Holmes, 33 Neale, 47 Stevens.
2021 Tiges 9 Gibcus, 17 Brown, 28 Sonsie, 29 Banks, 30 Clarke.
2021 Cats 24 Conway, 25 Knevitt, 32 Willis, 48 Kroeger, 64 Whyte
2022 Tiges 49 Smith, 55 Greene
2022 Cats 8 Clarke, 52 Foster
Current 2023 picks
Tiges 29, 41, 65, 68.
Cats 8, 25, 76, 87.
Last point the last three seasons Geelong have traded in 20YO Bruhn originally pick 12, 20 yo Ollie Henry originally pick 17 and they stole pick #7 and 23 yr old Bowes originally pick 10. They also used good picks to get Cameron who would have gone top 5 id he was not already tied to GWS as an underage concession.
We have used picks to get 25yo Taranto originally pick 2. 26yo Hopper originally pick 7.
That shows the truth it also shows we are relying on just one draft over 4 whole seasons to keep the club evolving.
They have used more draft picks than us and had better picks other than 2021.
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C’mon Craw. That’s plain embarrassing. You rate Bruin? Bowe is as slow as a wet week.
I like Holmes and would pay that. De Koning went backwards last season - has had one good season in 4.
Trading in Olly Henry, Tanner De Bruin and Jack Bowe is a bit half pregnant. We kind of know nothing about them so I would personally take Taranto and Hopper who have a few extra years under their belt to observe and judge wtf we are trading.
I don’t know either side have nailed their drafting but I am far more optimistic about our 2021 draft but concede there’s a bit to play out in that draft for us.
To even attempt to say the Cats are doing a better job with back filling their senior list is actually laughable though
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I dont believe the conversation has had anything to do with quality
What was said was their kids were taken with mostly better picks than ours not that that means much.
That it should be some sort of guide to their chances of finding better players than us.
Imo our drafting has been worse than theirs especially the last three years going on four where we have basically embraced just one draft.
I threw in the trades to show they have traded for basically kids who were also taken with early picks originally. Unlike us who sold the farm on a 25 and 26 year old.
Despite paying a load form Cameron they have found ways to stay involved in drafts unlike us in recent years.
What i dont get is supporters are ready willing and able to put the boots into other clubs without stopping to think that maybe we have been worse.
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This needs time to assess, but Richmond & Geelong have both experienced a lull after winning flags, Geelong are just 2 years behind us. The next two years will show where they have got themselves to, they may well have sold the farm for a handful of magic beans. Their youth will be exposed once Hawkins, Danger, Tuohy & Stewart are gone. Cameron will be 33 soon. That's when we will see what became of their one success in '22.
We have some chance of recovering from our post flag lull with the youth we picked up in '21, but Geelong are now facing the real acid test. Their '23 season was horrible so lets wait before declaring them the big winner out of the two clubs.
At least we have 3 flags to show for our efforts, so far they have just 1. Their time starts now, we have the runs on the board now they have to do better than us.
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I dont believe the conversation has had anything to do with quality
What was said was their kids were taken with mostly better picks than ours not that that means much.
That it should be some sort of guide to their chances of finding better players than us.
Imo our drafting has been worse than theirs especially the last three years going on four where we have basically embraced just one draft.
I threw in the trades to show they have traded for basically kids who were also taken with early picks originally. Unlike us who sold the farm on a 25 and 26 year old.
Despite paying a load form Cameron they have found ways to stay involved in drafts unlike us in recent years.
What i dont get is supporters are ready willing and able to put the boots into other clubs without stopping to think that maybe we have been worse.
Why have a conversation about drafting if quality of recruiting isn’t part of the criteria?
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Cats have had 1 top ten pick and 3 in the top twenty in the past 3 draft.
We’ve had 1 and 4.
But let’s not let facts get in the way of a good bollocking.
Cats had the oldest list in the competition this year.
But again, facts and narrative can be mutually exclusive
Why have that conversation well this post really. You were talking about where players were taken nothing to do with quality.
I simply pointed out where both clubs have taken playersover the last 5 seasons. In regard that they have done better than us.
Any one can see we have invested in just one draft in what will be four this year. I simply pointed out going by the criteria you set, we have had just two picks 9 and 17 from the one draft in what will be with the coming draft 4 seasons.
I also made the point because your obviously obsessed with age and top 20 picks that both clubs have traded picks for players taken in the top 20 originally, remember your criteria of top 20. The difference is Geelong traded for young players while we traded for older players.
Your the one who made it all about where players were picked i just pointed out they have taken more top 20 kids than us so if that makes them shizen what does it make us. Its not a hard concept to follow after all you set the criteria.
Are you happy with the last 5 years of drafting because if you take out 2021 we have hardly been involved who has had the better process us or them regardless of end results who has given themselves the better chance of maybe finding a few decent players.