One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: om21 on June 13, 2006, 08:15:11 PM
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Mere speculation from myself here. I thought we would have slightly regretted dropping Gas for last weekend considering Thomo took Razor to the cleaners. Me personally I think Razor will be better for the experience but he cant cut the mustard as a FB on a leading forward. Slightly frustrating when you have our best stopper in the twos.
Now I know the new generation of KPPs are these soft-receivers *cough* Bowden *cough* who do mopping up and give great drive off HB but I still think there is room for Gas this season to help the defence against the stronger marking forwards.
Do we bring him back for Williams? I dont think Razor is the matchup and Bowen off a leading forward may struggle. I just feel like we are judging Gas on his ability to kick rather than honing in on what he can offer us. Barker, Dixon and Williams. Gas must play, mustn't he?
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Mere speculation from myself here. I thought we would have slightly regretted dropping Gas for last weekend considering Thomo took Razor to the cleaners. Me personally I think Razor will be better for the experience but he cant cut the mustard as a FB on a leading forward. Slightly frustrating when you have our best stopper in the twos.
Now I know the new generation of KPPs are these soft-receivers *cough* Bowden *cough* who do mopping up and give great drive off HB but I still think there is room for Gas this season to help the defence against the stronger marking forwards.
Do we bring him back for Williams? I dont think Razor is the matchup and Bowen off a leading forward may struggle. I just feel like we are judging Gas on his ability to kick rather than honing in on what he can offer us. Barker, Dixon and Williams. Gas must play, mustn't he?
as i recall, joel has backed into many packs and taken great strong marks this yr, and he did last w/e, he isnt soft cough cough
there is no room 4 gas.
schulz will come in and play fb, and he will go fwd if needed
as a twist, staff will be dropped and hall will play FF or CHB
i think razor at FF is an option , thinking outside the square and i reckon could work
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If Gas was to come back in then Razor would have to go out. We saw against Freo that we can't have both in the same defence. The sad fact is foot skills are now just vital especially for backmen. Being just a good stopper doesn't cut it anymore. Saying that Gas (though he was apparently very ordinary for Coburg) would be a better option IMO for Williams than Razor even though Razor is a better kick.
Williams is really the only threat up forward. The Hawks won't have Croad, injuries have stuffed up Barker's body and if Dixon is kicking goals then our midfield isn't doing its job properly. Polo can go onto Buddy lol. Roughead will have to play in defence with Jacobs out injured unless they want us to kick 25 goals plus on Dawson or big Campbell.
Williams - Gas/Hall
Dixon - Chubba
Barker - Joel (Joel should run him ragged rebounding)
Franklin - Polo
Then we've got Rainsey and Newman for any small forward they try like Harry Miller with Paddy and Schulz as defensive back-ups.
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Hall is a good spoiler and does well away from goal. Close to goal he seems to panic a bit and gives away free kicks and is outmuscled. I put it down to experience, but i'd rather see him on a Tarrant or someone who leads long to the wing.
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Hall is a good spoiler and does well away from goal. Close to goal he seems to panic a bit and gives away free kicks and is outmuscled. I put it down to experience, but i'd rather see him on a Tarrant or someone who leads long to the wing.
Took the words right out of my mouth wayne. :clapping :clapping
Just have a look against the Roos last week. On Thompson at FB he struggled, once moved out from the opposition's goal square he was alot better - perhaps slightly less pressure out there
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If Gas was to come back in then Razor would have to go out. We saw against Freo that we can't have both in the same defence. The sad fact is foot skills are now just vital especially for backmen. Being just a good stopper doesn't cut it anymore. Saying that Gas (though he was apparently very ordinary for Coburg) would be a better option IMO for Williams than Razor even though Razor is a better kick.
Williams is really the only threat up forward. The Hawks won't have Croad, injuries have stuffed up Barker's body and if Dixon is kicking goals then our midfield isn't doing its job properly. Polo can go onto Buddy lol. Roughead will have to play in defence with Jacobs out injured unless they want us to kick 25 goals plus on Dawson or big Campbell.
Williams - Gas/Hall
Dixon - Chubba
Barker - Joel (Joel should run him ragged rebounding)
Franklin - Polo
Then we've got Rainsey and Newman for any small forward they try like Harry Miller with Paddy and Schulz as defensive back-ups.
Agree that Gas does not really have a match-up possibility in the Hawks side, so I would leave him out to find form in the VFL.
Williams - Raines & Newman
Agree with the 3 other backline match-ups, with Schulz as a pinch hitter against Frankiln. :thumbsup
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BUMP!
I saw an issue at the beginning of last week. Well I saw it on Saturday when Razor was cleaned out by Thommo. The writing is/was on the wall for Razor. I dont know why we persist. Ok let me state one thing, the guy cant mark. He is great on his own but he is useless in a contest. Gaspar cant kick BUT he does his job on his man. Having Gas on Sunday would have helped, why? Bc if a match-up doesnt work u can change. You have flexibility.
I am very very dissapointed in our coaching panel for not picking this up. Its time to stop crucifying Gas for his kicking. Otherwise a lot of players should be dropped for their dirty habits.
Rocca and Tarrant this week. Do we persist with Bowden and Hall?
BTW I agree Gas' time is fastly approaching but for crying out loud Razor is a nightmare.
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At the start of the year we were saying we could afford least injuries to our key defenders as our backline was the most susceptible part of the team. We were hoping that Thursty and Sarge would gradually fill the void so we weren't still reliant on the old guard of Gas and Chubba or even Hall. It turned out that we've been hit hardest in injuries to our key defenders so much so that we had none against the Swans and had to bring McGuane into the side straight from the Coburg ressies. Our hands are tied when the only real choice is between Gas and Razor. Chocco Royal said on Club Corner that Gas will play against the Pies.
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I agree with you mt...and I realise Gas would have been a good mentor (stopper wise) over the duration of this season with those kids playing, but its one of those things out of our control.
Looking forward to seeing Gas back.
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anyone would be better than hall in defence! take gas over hall anyday
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there is no room 4 gas.
as a twist, staff will be dropped and hall will play FF or CHB
i think razor at FF is an option , thinking outside the square and i reckon could work
This wasnt all that long ago hey?
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there is no room 4 gas.
as a twist, staff will be dropped and hall will play FF or CHB
i think razor at FF is an option , thinking outside the square and i reckon could work
This wasnt all that long ago hey?
true, there comes a time where enough is enough! gas has to come in as a fill in for hall, but only if richo is still out injured, thats why i said that, word is richo wont play v the pies. in this scenario, schulz would have to play fwd. thats why i made that statement
but
say richo is fit to play, then all changes
schulz goes in defence for hall, and gas misses out again.
however , gas and hall must both be gone next yr , if not cant see why i should buy my memberships again til they are gone, saying that though , just like i have been a sucker now 17 yrs in a row, will buy a membership regardless, Geez, i kept my membership alive during spuds time where i just wanted to kill something!
if i got my wishlist , next yr gas, hall and tiv would all be gone.
its spewing cogs did his knee , he would have been a gr8 carrot with a draft pick to trade with the eagles for judd, but he is damaged goods now with 0 market value!
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LMAO@ Gas returning.
Pass the Eno.......
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LMAO@ Gas returning.
Pass the Eno.......
Always wondered what Eno was used for lol
I don't use it :rollin
Welcome back, Gas :thumbsup
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however , gas and hall must both be gone next yr ,
One might go but definitely not both with our lack of KPPs.
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Today's Coburg game summed up Gas. A reliable key defender who can shutdown most forwards he plays on but sadly unreliable to hit targets by foot even when not under pressure.
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Bring him back and talk him up till the end of the season, then try and do Freo over for a 3rd rounder lol.
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If Gas comes in and keeps Tarrant out of the game like he normally does, then i will be more than happy with that.
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No to Gaspar.
Give Moore or mcGuane a chance to impress.
Time to look towards the future.
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Today's Coburg game summed up Gas. A reliable key defender who can shutdown most forwards he plays on but sadly unreliable to hit targets by foot even when not under pressure.
terry and the tigers should make a rule, if u cannot consistantly kick well, you dont play, no matter who u r!
we need to start looking 4 better skilled line uos, for far too long we have rewarded mediocrity and its got to stop!
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terry and the tigers should make a rule, if u cannot consistantly kick well, you dont play, no matter who u r!
We'd only have 5 players run out each week if that was the rule lol ;).
We are hamstrung by lack of key defensive options so beggars can't be chooses :-\. That's why we must do whatever is required to get one of Hansen or Gumbleton in the draft who can play KP at either end of the ground.
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LAST CHANCE :wallywink
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terry and the tigers should make a rule, if u cannot consistantly kick well, you dont play, no matter who u r!
We are hamstrung by lack of key defensive options so beggars can't be chooses :-\.
thats why jay schulz will play in defence ;)
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Gas is mentioned towards the end of the article.
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Can't kick? Can't win
Stephen Rielly
The Age
June 30, 2006
THREE years ago, Sydney coach Paul Roos decided to look back on football's recent past. Specifically, the premiership teams of the previous five seasons.
He did so with an interest in identifying the essential characteristics of success, indispensable qualities which, if common to all of the premiership teams, might serve as a template for a better Sydney game. He found only one.
"Inside 50s varied, contested possession and uncontested possession wasn't constant, long kicks, short kicks, handball receives … all those sorts of things were higher or lower with every year," Roos said.
"But one measurement didn't fluctuate; kicking efficiency."
Seven years earlier, Ted Hopkins, founder and football director of statistical services company Champion Data, set off on a similar quest. Hopkins wanted to know if there was an objective, quantifiable answer to the question of what, more than anything else, loses games of football.
With pay television arriving the previous year to make every game available for scrutiny for the first time, Hopkins and, later, a team of mathematicians reviewed the 1996 season. Their conclusion?
"Setting aside kicking for goal and concentrating on the field of play, the thing which clearly stood out was kicking, especially crappy kicking in the back line," Hopkins said.
"The better kicking team rarely lost."
And still doesn't, it seems.
It might just be the great joke modern football is telling against itself, but the rapid evolution of the game in the past decade, from contest to possession sport, has managed to simultaneously outrage traditionalists and restore the value of its oldest and most basic skill, boot to ball.
Which is to say that the absence of clean, accurate disposal demands from a player nothing less than excellence in other areas.
"If you've got a poor kick, that player has to be extremely valuable in other ways to be considered," Eade says.
Roos concurs, citing Brett Kirk as an example of a player who is not a good kick but who is nonetheless a good player.
"If you can kick the ball and keep it off the opposition, then some deficiencies can be covered," the Sydney coach says.
"I don't think you're going to dismiss a player entirely if he can't kick, but he's going to have to exhibit an enormous amount of talent in all the other areas of the game if you're going to have him in the footy club."
If kicking is important, even more so than ever before, then exactly how important?
This was the question Melbourne asked of Hopkins in 2002. The Demons had been beaten badly in the 2000 grand final and after losing a semi-final to Adelaide two years later knew they had to strip back a side that was good but not good enough.
Before rebuilding, though, Melbourne's then football manager Danny Corcoran and the club's recruiting manager, Craig Cameron, wanted to know, if possible, what fundamental qualities every potential recruit should possess. What mattered most?
Again, kicking was the answer.
Some Hopkins research not only told the Demons that kicking should be a player's paramount virtue, after which all other talents should be assessed, but put an actual worth on it.
"What we were able to prove is that each effective kick more than the opposition, a kick over a distance of 40 metres or more, was worth 1.4 points," Hopkins said.
"So, for example, if a team has 10 more effective long kicks than its opposition the advantage to the better kicking team is 14 points, or more than two goals."
This was good enough for Cameron to rethink his player assessment priorities. When he joined Melbourne in 1996, athleticism, power and endurance were the highly-prized attributes every club in the land sought in its recruits. The thinking that a player, if not an athlete and a born footballer together, should be an athlete first was very much in vogue.
Cameron says that is no longer the case although, he adds, this is not to absurdly dismiss everything other than kicking.
"We've definitely taken a strong view on kicking. I don't think we're as absolute as some clubs who will simply rule a player out if he can't kick, because I don't think you can be without an infinite pool of talent to choose from," he said.
"But a good player who can kick well might be a top 20 selection. A player of similar ability but who is a poor kick might not go until the fourth or fifth round. Very few clubs will invest heavily in a player now who can't kick.
"In that sense I think it's true that fundamental football skills have regained their value, are absolutely important again. If you can't make a decision, you get hurt. If you can't kick the ball, you get hurt.
"When teams run so hard as they do now and commit so heavily to supporting the ball carrier and to provide the next target, if the ball is turned over your exposure at the back is just too costly."
According to Cameron, kicking means more than simply delivering the ball by foot to the intended target, as important as that is. He watches good kicks take the game on because they are confident in their ability to deliver and sees bad kicks shrivel from the risks all coaches want their players to take.
"What it does is cause decision-making problems, because they know they can't kick it well enough," he says.
"So, sometimes, when the right kick might be inside they won't go there because they think to themselves, 'Uh, I might f--- it up', and a turnover in the central area of the ground is often quickly an opposition goal.
"Poor kicking can create and or exacerbate decision-making problems."
Which is a belief Parkin, the four-time premiership coach, shares.
"If you accept that all players will go out and win the ball when it's their turn, what happens after that is the crucial element of the game and that is delivering the ball to a teammate over distance. That is, territory gained and retention or possession of the ball brought together," Parkin said.
"A player who is a poor kick will have his options narrowed by his reticence to make a mistake, but will also change the way his teammates respond to his winning the ball.
"If the receiver isn't confident about the player kicking the ball to him, he will lead wider or to a safer position or not lead at all for fear of being put under pressure by the kick. It can change the psyche of the side.
"Another example is the way players will run to a player who is a poor kick to get him out of trouble, to bail him out from having to kick. Think about where they would run if the player with the ball is Luke Hodge or Dustin Fletcher. It can affect the way the team moves as a unit."
Parkin did not say so but it is not hard to believe that he had Jon Hay or Darren Gaspar in mind, players who have been brought face to face with football's grim reaper for one reason more than any other; their wonky kicking.
Hay is the tall athlete everyone wanted 10 years ago, the player the Kangaroos traded for only eight months ago. He is now playing VFL football, as is Gaspar, who has been fit for weeks but unable to break into the Richmond side.
Five years ago Hay and Gaspar were in the same All-Australian side but since then, says Roos, the game has changed so much and placed such a premium on possession that poor-kicking footballers are about to join the dodo in extinction.
"Teams are extremely good now at exploiting players who can't kick," Roos said.
"They leave them free or work to have them finish with the ball in their hands knowing that they will turn it over. It's not an exaggeration to say that we're seeing careers brought to an end because the players concerned can't kick.
"Why is it that a player who is a poor kick but is capable of getting the ball 30 times a week often isn't tagged any more? Five years ago that player, by the weight of his numbers, would have been assigned someone and shut down.
"Now, it's the good kicks who might only get the ball 15 times who are tagged. Given that it's usual for someone from the other side to get a reasonable amount of the ball, you encourage or try to make sure it's the bloke who gets a lot of it but gives it back."
Peter Schwab, head of the AFL match review panel, went to Germany to watch the World Cup and several years ago, when he was still coaching Hawthorn, he ventured to Manchester United's hallowed home at Old Trafford as part of an educational off-season trip. Schwab gained an audience with United's famously successful manager, Alex Ferguson.
In the course of their discussion he asked the Scot what he does with a player in his team who is a poor kick. Ferguson, with some incredulity, replied: "We don't have poor kicks in our team."
Which, as Australian football rushes to embrace the possession game that in soccer is an art, ought to be a warning to every schoolboy footballer in the country.
http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2006/06/29/1151174331495.html
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In the course of their discussion he asked the Scot what he does with a player in his team who is a poor kick. Ferguson, with some incredulity, replied: "We don't have poor kicks in our team."
And that's the way the RFC should think with our recruiting. If you can't kick well with both feet then you won't be drafted to Tigerland.
Good article although singling out Gas is a touch rough as Richmond has had teams in recent times where many on the list were poor kicks and turned over the footy constantly. Imagine Duncan or Clinton King playing now days :help.
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Was reasonably happy with his job on Dud Rocca. Even though conditions suited him, Gas came out on top and even had glimpses of his old self where he would win the one on ones. Glad to see him playing ahead of Razor and hope it continues this week as well!
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3rd rounder coming our way from Freo lol.
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ahahahahah booooooooooooooo if it means I have another year of Razor learning how to put body on body.
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Was it me or has Gaspar had a haircut? Or was it just because it was wet and his curls were all flattened?
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I think he did have a fight with a lawn mower.
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The Age today lists what Martin Blake considers the best full backs but there's no mention of Gas. Gas has his obvious flaws and he's been injured this year but I don't see him any worse than Presti and he's done his job containing Rocca, Tredrea, Neitz and Hall in the past month since he's come back from injury.
Matthew Scarlett (Geelong):
Ben Rutten (Adelaide):
Mal Michael (Brisbane Lions):
Dustin Fletcher (Essendon):
Max Hudghton (St Kilda):
Brian Harris (Western Bulldogs):
Leo Barry (Sydney):
Darren Glass (West Coast):
Simon Prestigiacomo (Collingwood):