One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on April 18, 2007, 03:49:48 AM
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Tiger critics off mark - Wallace
18 April 2007 Herald-Sun
Terry Wallace
FOOTBALL hysteria is alive and well in 2007, Terry Wallace writes.
AFL footy is an amazing, media-driven game, and that's why it has become so popular with the masses and equally why those in the game are paid so well.
The adulation of success is unparalleled and the scrutiny and criticism of failure savage.
Never more than in the past few weeks have I been shocked and amazed by how some people in the media can change and misrepresent comments made and use them against you in times of vulnerability.
Even more startling is that there are so many media commentators and analysts who now comment on matters without any background knowledge or information.
On the eve of the 2007 season Richmond invited key media members to an information session, which outlined the performance and future direction of the club.
The meeting was a feel-good chat to give a greater understanding of the club's inner workings. I presented a list management study, which clearly defined the reasons for some of the club's difficulties during the past five years. This presentation set immediate, short term and long-term directions for the club.
In the past, clubs have been criticised for not being transparent enough. But as I found out, as soon as you are, some people with agendas use it against you.
The black hole
The presentation spoke about the missing generation at Tigerland, where we have very few players in the 22 to 26-year age bracket. When I started at Richmond more than two years ago we had an older age group of players and had started to develop our own young players for the future, rather than simply trading away picks for older, established players, so that we could build our own generation next. We now have 30 of 44 players under 24 years of age.
Immediate goals
Once we identified this black hole, we tried to stuff young players to make the grade before our senior group was pensioned off.
Players such as Raines, Deledio, Tambling, Schulz, Tuck and Polo have been part of that rebuilding process, with other early draft selections maturing and developing at VFL level. Over two years we have seen improvement.
Everyone at the club plans and works as hard as possible to win every game each week.
Some in the media say our greatest downfall was that we improved a little quicker than perhaps we should have to take advantage of extra draft selections.
But we want to breed a culture of striving to win.
At that meeting it was stated there would be no guarantees on how quickly our younger players would develop and that their development would determine whether we held ground, lost ground or made ground in the short term.
Mid-term goals
What has not been reported is the club has always believed that with three to five years' development, our draftees would have enough games under their belt to support our core senior group in the next few years. This was clearly spelled out at the meeting, but never reported.
Because we lack players around the 100-game mark, we need to get games into some of our boys as quickly as possible, while still earning the right to wear the Richmond football jumper, not just be given charity games.
No doubt we will be judged over the next two years on whether the marriage flourishes with that senior and younger group. But, as senior coach, I understand this is what you live and die by in this environment.
Long-term goals
For some reason there was an hysterical reaction to our club having long-term plans. I would have thought that anyone who understands business would realise you need direction to achieve your goals. People must understand that AFL footy is also a business. What was projected at the meeting was that by 2011 the club's black hole would be disappearing.
The draft players of 2004 (Deledio, Pattison, Tambling, Polo) will have reached 24 years of age with Brett Deledio the youngest at 23.
With constant drafting since then, rather than trading selections away, we will have a continuity of ages and a core group of players who will have come through together in the correct age brackets.
I'm sure West Coast is doing this planning now, has been doing it for years and therefore has few "holes" on its list.
While getting the age brackets right, obviously each club is also working on the right balance of key position players, ruckmen and running players and trying to ensure it has enough talent.
Never, ever was there a statement that the club would not have success until 2011 -- but merely that the Tigers would have an even list for a decade and beyond from that time onwards.
The other factor I was bitterly disappointed about was the insinuation this grand plan was to keep me in a job for longer. At the meeting it was clearly spelled out that the entire club had the immediate, short term and long-term procedures in place so that we could all have clear direction for the future regardless of whether CEO Steven Wright, president Gary March, director of football Greg Miller or myself remained in our positions.
All at the club have been bitterly disappointed with our start to the season, as would the other three clubs who are in the same position.
This marathon season of ours ebbs and flows in some mysterious ways.
Last year Melbourne was 0-3 and then comfortably made the finals, while teams who appeared down and out last year, such as Essendon, Hawthorn, Carlton and the Brisbane Lions, have started the 2007 season with a surge.
So, as someone who has been in this pressure-cooker environment for some time, I can only deal with what I can control and get on with the business of planning for Friday night's game against the Western Bulldogs.
On a weekly basis I tell my players never to take their eyes off the ball, so in my role I cannot afford to hesitate or deviate from our plans.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,21576127%255E19742,00.html
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Norm Smith won those three premierships (lost the fourth to the pies when they got sucked in)in the early fifties by building up a young team playing together until success came their way. They weren't exactly a team of champions but they were a great team.
I watched the Swans game against the lions and when the going got tough the tough got going something the tiges need to do. Hall who had been the focal point early (kicks straight too) was leading into one pocket and Mclauchlin into the other with the backmen backing themselves up into the centre and providing the drive.
They were playing like a team.
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A well written response by Plough. Some will call it spin but I can't see to much wrong with what he's said.
Imagine Spud trying to write something like this - "yeah nah, stick fat, we're not far away but we've got along way to go" ;D.
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All Tezza has done in that article is repeat what he has been saying since he got to the place.
Nothing new in it for Tiger fans - certainly a bit a clarity for other footy fans, the Mike Sheahans and Caros of the world who never let the facts get in the way of a good headline
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All of what TW says is great, makes sense and I understand it, but to me it means next to nothing.
Things off the field seem settled, which is great, but you’d like to see the flow on effect reflected on the field, at some point in time. Instead, as always, it seems to be one step forward and two steps back.
We seem to know how to put a team together and be able to teach players about game plans, following instructions and so on, but what about instilling in them the traits that make a real team? It’s one thing for players to stick to the game plan and win games because they did that, but what about when they’re challenged by the opposition and it requires more than their ability to stick to the game plan to win a game of football?
You don’t expect to win every game and you don’t expect young players to come in and instantly turn our fortunes around, but at some point I reckon you have a right to expect to see that the team is developing a backbone.
That’s something RFC has failed miserably to achieve in the past. And it doesn’t look like we’re much closer to achieving that now. As always, when the tempo in a game lifts, we don’t have the capacity to lift the intensity at the same time. And even at times when we have the ascendancy in a game, there’s never the sense of urgency to ram home the advantage. Different players, different coach and a different season. But the same old bad habits and traits.
How skilled do players need to be to want to win and be prepared to go the extra distance? It’s just something that eternally seems to elude our players and it’s like that even if we have had someone to show the way to others, they don’t follow anyway, because it’s just not in them to do so. And whenever the pressure is on, some players automatically seem to go and do their own thing, in their own way, on their own. Which is completely the opposite to the good teams, who, in these situations, support one another and do whatever it takes to move the ball forward and to their advantage.
But we seem to need some ideal circumstances to arrive before we can ever hope to see examples of that from our team. Instead, we’ll just put our faith in the system and game plan to win games and fool people into thinking the team is improving, when the on-field evidence suggests something else.
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Welcome back Spirit :clapping
:cheers
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What the plough needs is a win this week to take the heat off for a while and to start bringing in the youngsters like Edwards, Riewoldt, Oakley Nicholls and Casserleys. Hope always dies last- and if you bring in kids they will give supporters hope for the future.
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Tiger critics off mark - Wallace
18 April 2007 Herald-Sun
Terry Wallace
FOOTBALL hysteria is alive and well in 2007, Terry Wallace writes.
The draft players of 2004 (Deledio, Pattison, Tambling, Polo) will have reached 24 years of age with Brett Deledio the youngest at 23.
i understand what wallet is saying
but the above sentence is a worry, this tells me meyer is finished
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Tiger critics off mark - Wallace
18 April 2007 Herald-Sun
Terry Wallace
FOOTBALL hysteria is alive and well in 2007, Terry Wallace writes.
The draft players of 2004 (Deledio, Pattison, Tambling, Polo) will have reached 24 years of age with Brett Deledio the youngest at 23.
i understand tottaly what wallet is saying
but the above sentence is a worry, this tells me meyer is finished
If hes finished then they need to start pumping up his value, if theyve decided they cant move forward with danny or cleve or both- they need to find a way to jack up there value and send them home for a decent deal.
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Wouldnt think that patto, tambling and Polo are household names yer either. Jury is out I reckon. I hope they make it but
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Tiger critics off mark - Wallace
18 April 2007 Herald-Sun
Terry Wallace
FOOTBALL hysteria is alive and well in 2007, Terry Wallace writes.
The draft players of 2004 (Deledio, Pattison, Tambling, Polo) will have reached 24 years of age with Brett Deledio the youngest at 23.
i understand what wallet is saying
but the above sentence is a worry, this tells me meyer is finished
The hardcopy of the paper included Meyer and McGuane.
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Tiger critics off mark - Wallace
18 April 2007 Herald-Sun
Terry Wallace
FOOTBALL hysteria is alive and well in 2007, Terry Wallace writes.
The draft players of 2004 (Deledio, Pattison, Tambling, Polo) will have reached 24 years of age with Brett Deledio the youngest at 23.
i understand what wallet is saying
but the above sentence is a worry, this tells me meyer is finished
The hardcopy of the paper included Meyer and McGuane.
why do they change it for the net format
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l think some of you dont understand the term REBUILDING a club & its playing list
there is still alot of work to be done you just cant become a coach & put together a new coaching staff & fix things in a few years
It needs to be done over a long period thats why Richmond has given TW a 5 year contract cause with his plans & what the board had talked about it would be at least that to get the club back on track & to gell together a good playing list
remember TW came to the club when it was broke on its knees & the list was not good & moral from Frawley & humilating defeats was not good
Until the club starts stringing wins together & become a hard & unpredictable team to beat in the mold of ?? Western Bulldogs Sydney, West Coast, Adelaide, St-Kilda then none here will be satified & those who think they know best will be critic's of the coach & players
Its time some of you forum trolls started supporting our cause & stop destroying it as its being built up you will only damage the young players with your wraith
:gotigers
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why do they change it for the net format
To get us to buy the paper ;)
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Too much Tiger information
Martin Blake | April 20, 2007
The Age
WHEN Terry Wallace talks about the need to "shut up shop", you sit up and listen. It is hard to imagine Wallace, who has changed the way AFL clubs think about transparency, could have come to this. But he believes that the metaphorical goal posts have been shifted in the past month. Here is why.
On the eve of the season, Richmond called selected members of the media in for what it called an information session. It was typical Wallace to think of it, and delivered with characteristic professionalism. The aim was to have the philosophy and direction of the club passed on to supporters via the media.
The coach delivered a presentation on the state of the Tigers' list, noting the "black hole" in the age group 22 to 26, from which Wallace believes most premiership players come. There was a graph that pitched the Tigers for a ninth-place finish in 2007, the same as in 2006.
Here was the catch. In his presentation, Wallace mentioned that it would take until 2011 for Richmond to fill the void in its list, and that this would be when real prosperity should follow, the much-quoted "decade of opportunity".
This was interpreted in some circles as Wallace saying that Richmond could not expect a flag until at least 2011. For a man into the third year of a five-year contract, it came across as an unnecessary dampening of expectations. The talkback lines and internet forums ran riot.
But Wallace says it was never like that. He believes people in the media used it against him. And he has learned his lesson. "All I was saying was that in 2011, there would be no more holes in the list."
Yesterday, Wallace admitted it was a mistake to present such detailed information on the club in such a forum, open as it was to interpretation. "With hindsight, yes (it was)," he said. "But I've written it in the paper. I've given it to all and sundry. There's no damage with the information that's there. It was a mistake in the fact that everyone in the media are looking for a whizzbang story, and therefore they weren't prepared to report it."
In the future, he said, it would be delivered in a controlled environment. "I just would never have that information meeting again. All it's done is that it's guaranteed that I'll just shut up shop, which is disappointing. I've always been one who tried to be open and honest about where things are at. What it's taught me is: 'Don't give anything to anyone.' "
Wallace is under pressure, of course, but he's been here before, and this week, with three straight defeats to start the season, there has been plenty of criticism from the likes of Garry Lyon. Externally, the heat is rising.
Internally, Richmond is trying desperately to hold firm with its long-term plans as it prepares to take on the Western Bulldogs at the MCG tonight.
"That's the nature of the business," he said of the criticism. "To be honest, we're not in the position we'd want to be in. But we're not panicking about where we're going as a club, that's for sure."
Comparisons have been made with Hawthorn's rebuilding under Alastair Clarkson, and specifically there has been criticism of Richmond's 2004 decision to draft Richard Tambling ahead of Lance "Buddy" Franklin, who went to the Hawks with the No. 5 pick. Of course, the jury will be out on these things for some time yet, notwithstanding Franklin's quick emergence.
It annoys Wallace to hear the comparison between Franklin and Tambling. "I reckon it's the most ridiculous comparison of all time. Why don't they compare him with (No. 2 pick) Jarryd Roughead? If Hawthorn were so smart, why didn't they pick Buddy at No. 2?"
All the while, the slick Tambling is getting better. "The bottom line is you end up with a very nice player. He'll mature up. It just takes time."
Matthew Richardson's poor conversion has been a topic of angst at Punt Road, too, as it tends to be from time to time. Wallace points out that as a 60 per cent converter, the beloved "Richo" is not as bad as what many people believe in front of the big sticks. The problem is that when he misses, he misses big. "When he has a bad day, he usually has a really bad day. It makes it stand out even more so."
The Tigers have picked two first-gamers for tonight, 22-year-old Jake King and 18-year-old Shane Edwards.
While it could be interpreted as a message that Richmond will continue to push youth, Wallace said it was simpler than that. King, Coburg's best-and-fairest player last year, and Edwards simply beat down the door. "There's no message," he said. "Jake King has been really close. He played the last three practice games and he's been close the whole way through. Edwards has been our best-performed VFL player. The reality is we've lost three games in a row as well."
Richmond has been competitive — it has led well into all three games against Carlton, Sydney and Collingwood — all season. Not that this is enough for Wallace, let alone the Tiger Army.
"It's a test in a few ways. It's a test of your supporters' faith, it's a test of your board of management's level-headedness, that they know and understand where we're going and they've got confidence in the group that's doing the job. I think it's a test of the coaching staff and the players to keep their eye on the ball and not get carried away with external things that we have no control over."
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/too-much-tiger-information/2007/04/19/1176697004756.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
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Following on from the Coachlotto article in the Age today http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/coachlotto/2007/04/19/1176697004281.html
AFL - First Coach To Go
Dean Laidley 2.25
All Coaches In Current Positions When Round 22 Commences 3.50
Mark Thompson 7.00
Denis Pagan 10.00
Chris Connolly 13.00
Alastair Clarkson 13.00
Mick Malthouse 13.00
Neale Daniher 13.00
Terry Wallace 26.00
Leigh Matthews 34.00
Kevin Sheedy 41.00
Mark Williams 51.00
Neil Craig 61.00
Ross Lyon 101.00
Rodney Eade 151.00
John Worsfold 151.00
Paul Roos 151.00
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Grant Thomas' view of the handling of Plough's 2011 plan....
Speaking of focus, we are seeing the after-effects of Terry Wallace's "long-term" strategic plans for Richmond. "Plough" feels victimised by the media who misconstrued his privileged information and twisting it into something it was never meant to be.
Wallace is to be congratulated for his transparency in allowing the media and public into the Tigers' forward planning. Terry is a skilled media performer and introduced his own media conferences at a time when most coaches were trying to find excuses to get out of them.
The concern in providing this information is the effect it has on the current playing group. Perhaps the players needed to be informed about the strategy of informing all and sundry — perhaps they were. I cannot help but think it has had a significant mental effect on the Tigers when the game is in the balance. This theory is backed up by their recent performances. The general consensus would be not to expect too much over the next few years from the Tiges — unfortunately, that can send the wrong message to the players.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/selfcontrolled-teams-are-masters-of-own-destiny/2007/04/21/1176697155200.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
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l think some of you dont understand the term REBUILDING a club & its playing list
there is still alot of work to be done you just cant become a coach & put together a new coaching staff & fix things in a few years
It needs to be done over a long period …
Maybe I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I understand plenty, Tigermonk. There is a lot of work to do. However, there’s more to coaching than simply adopting a game plan and waiting for the young players to gain experience, which is what TW’s approach seems to be based on. Just waiting for the right circumstances to arrive. Where’s the evidence that suggests otherwise?
In part, it does take time to make things happen, no question. However there’s the other side to developing players that RFC simply doesn’t have a handle on. Even when our list is where it should be, how can we have the confidence to know that our players can produce anything other than limited results, unless they have the tools to take them to the level required? It’s all well and good to put in the work, but if the energy is being put into the wrong areas then it’s unreasonable to expect to see improvement further down the track, when there’s barely a hint of improvement now. I’m not expecting anything out of the ordinary here, just a hint that the Club has a clue.
RFC and TW have done a lot of talking lately, but none of it convinces me of anything.
The true evidence that RFC knows how to develop a team is by the traits they display out on the field. And from what we’ve seen so far, our players are no more advanced than they were three seasons ago.
I don’t need to wait until 2011 to know how good we’ll be then. I already know, because, regardless of whether we have the ideal list at the moment, you can tell that we’ve done nothing of any significance to instill in our players the traits and habits that can bring about sustained improvement, now or ever.
Denis Pagan has got more out of his players, even though their list was way behind ours a couple of seasons ago, to the point where they are so far in front of us now it’s laughable. Even at their worst, they could still generate enough passion and spirit amongst their players to win games of footy. On the other hand, we simply need to wait for the right time and the right set of circumstances so that we can get results.
People can point to recruiting and whatever else, the fact of the matter is that RFC was and still is living in la la land, when it comes to developing players. And until this changes then we can recruit the cream of the crop for the next 10 years, and it will change nothing of any significance. Only bring more frustration.
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The concern in providing this information is the effect it has on the current playing group. Perhaps the players needed to be informed about the strategy of informing all and sundry — perhaps they were. I cannot help but think it has had a significant mental effect on the Tigers when the game is in the balance. This theory is backed up by their recent performances. The general consensus would be not to expect too much over the next few years from the Tiges — unfortunately, that can send the wrong message to the players.
It can only send the wrong message if TW is more a list manager than coach. He seems to know how to work the system to get the players he wants to carry out his game plan(s) and he can manufacture wins from nowhere. What he doesn’t seem to know is how to get the absolute best out of his players. That’s not necessarily a criticism, it’s just the way it is, and it’s that way for other AFL coaches too. But, somehow, other clubs seem to work around that and have a way of instilling in their players the traits and habits that can allow their players to carry out a game plan under pressure.
Where, in anything we have seen so far, do our players look like they are capable of that, or do they look any more advanced than before TW arrived?
No doubt there is improvement in some areas, but the fact that TW has his players adopt a style of game that doesn’t suit them supports the theory that he’s not a coach in the true sense of the word. Because if he were then he would make the game plan suit his players, rather than wait until such time as the playing list suits his style of game. Nevertheless, this isn’t a bag TW session.
And anyway, that’s not where all the problem are. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, and I'll keep saying it until there's no need to; RFC needs to wake up to itself because we’re no better off now than we were 2 and 3 seasons ago.
And until such time as RFC implements a program that can get the best out of players then we’re all wasting our time trying to work out what’s wrong and who’s at fault.
We can wait for the system to bring us better players and for time to put experience into them, but it’s more than just embarrassing that in the time RFC has bumbled its way through quarter of a century, most other clubs out there have fallen and risen up the ladder. If other clubs can do it why can’t RFC?
Whether it’s through sheer stubbornness, ignorance, or purely because of financial reasons, who knows. Whatever the reason, I wish they would get some people in there with people skills, who know how to work with players and communicate with them at a level that goes beyond barking instructions, and just expecting players to be able to carry out orders and win games. Honestly, the way some Clubs and coaches go about it is simply mind boggling, disheartening and soul destroying. They’re people not robots. Do you reckon some of them know that, or even care?
I was disillusioned at the end of last season, and have seen nothing to change that to now. Please RFC, wake up will ya. We recruit players with ability and turn it into mush, and nothing more than cannon fodder for the media and supporters out there.
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Top post TS :clapping
It can only send the wrong message if TW is more a list manager than coach. He seems to know how to work the system to get the players he wants to carry out his game plan(s) and he can manufacture wins from nowhere. What he doesn’t seem to know is how to get the absolute best out of his players. That’s not necessarily a criticism, it’s just the way it is, and it’s that way for other AFL coaches too. But, somehow, other clubs seem to work around that and have a way of instilling in their players the traits and habits that can allow their players to carry out a game plan under pressure.
Where, in anything we have seen so far, do our players look like they are capable of that, or do they look any more advanced than before TW arrived?
No doubt there is improvement in some areas, but the fact that TW has his players adopt a style of game that doesn’t suit them supports the theory that he’s not a coach in the true sense of the word. Because if he were then he would make the game plan suit his players, rather than wait until such time as the playing list suits his style of game. Nevertheless, this isn’t a bag TW session.
A gameplan needs to set individual and team rules but it can't be too inflexible that it stifles the players own flair and creativity. There needs to be a balance between the two.
We seem to go through a cycle of a new coach coming in and our players lift to a certain degree for a year or two before going back into the same old bad habits until we blame and offload the coach and bring in another new coach and they lift and fall again.
Watching training I believe our coaches are too soft on our players or at least tolerate bad habits when they shouldn't. Our senior players like those at the top clubs should also be tough on these things with our young players to set a high standard but sadly they are some of the main culprits come gameday :-\. It's at training especially over summer that these bad habits need to be cracked down on. I know there are those well known on here who think Plough and the gameplan suck ;) but IMHO they are letting the players off in their responsibility. Whatever the gameplan you still weigh up and play the percentages and you still need to work hard off the ball. You don't need a coach to tell you that especially if your a senior player with many years in the system. Most Tiger players don't appear to get it or are just plain lazy.
The other bad habit at Richmond as you mentioned TS is we as a club talk publicly too much before we can walk and end up with our foot in our mouth. IMO this is a reflection of still a poor attitude within the club as far as how we view and judge where we are at. Good clubs shut up and let their footy do the talking. They don't make everyone cringe by going on about gaining respect and all this other garbage we say prior to round 1 ::).
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A gameplan needs to set individual and team rules but it can't be too inflexible that it stifles the players own flair and creativity. There needs to be a balance between the two.
We seem to go through a cycle of a new coach coming in and our players lift to a certain degree for a year or two before going back into the same old bad habits until we blame and offload the coach and bring in another new coach and they lift and fall again.
Even with my limited knowledge, from the outset, I couldn’t understand why we would adopt a style that requires a level of skill, confidence and ability we wouldn’t seem to have. Just as annoying to me is that it seems an unnatural way to play football. And is it my imagination, or does it seem like players have to learn how to play football all over again, once they become AFL players? They learn one way through their junior careers and then have to learn all over again once in the AFL system? Just seems like crazy and unnecessary stuff to me.
If players lose confidence and form playing a style that’s foreign to them then where’s the responsibility from the coaches to ensure that doesn’t happen? Who and what are they actually concerned about? There are no guarantees with any player, but where’s the club’s responsibility to ensure players show a degree of consistent and sustained improvement? If players aren’t up to it then there’s not a lot anyone can do about that. But, RFC seems to put it back on the system and the cost involved in letting players go, etc., etc. At this rate, 2011 seems a bit ambitious.
Don’t mean to be so critical, but even allowing for the fact that sometimes you need to go backwards in order to go forwards; given RFC’s methods, I fail to see how and when sustained improvement is going to be a reality for any of our players.
Watching training I believe our coaches are too soft on our players or at least tolerate bad habits when they shouldn't. Our senior players like those at the top clubs should also be tough on these things with our young players to set a high standard but sadly they are some of the main culprits come gameday :-\. It's at training especially over summer that these bad habits need to be cracked down on. I know there are those well known on here who think Plough and the gameplan suck ;) but IMHO they are letting the players off in their responsibility.
Each player has to take responsibility for their part, no question, but if we were all disciplined enough to push ourselves to do the things we need to do then there would be no need for coaches. And if the coaches are accepting of these traits and habits you mention, MT, then why should the players change or do any more than they need to? It’s human nature for us to test the boundaries, and if there are no set boundaries then we simply create our own. The problem is there never seems to be any real consequences for players and so the boundaries just continue to be extended.
I know some of it comes back to the vicious cycle that we don’t have the depth to replace players, but if anything is to change in the future then RFC needs to start doing something different to this. Right now, and not when we have the ‘ideal’ list in place.
The other bad habit at Richmond as you mentioned TS is we as a club talk publicly too much before we can walk and end up with our foot in our mouth. IMO this is a reflection of still a poor attitude within the club as far as how we view and judge where we are at. Good clubs shut up and let their footy do the talking. They don't make everyone cringe by going on about gaining respect and all this other garbage we say prior to round 1 ::).
Amen to that MT. I was always taught, ‘less talk, more work’.
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Coach to go, Daniher to Essendon, Sheedy to retire gracefully after a finals campaign....
who to coach the Dees... Garry Lyon ? ;D No, maybe.... Grant Thomas or Danny Frawley... :shh
Nah, I reckon, Laidly the most likely...
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Even with my limited knowledge, from the outset, I couldn’t understand why we would adopt a style that requires a level of skill, confidence and ability we wouldn’t seem to have. Just as annoying to me is that it seems an unnatural way to play football. And is it my imagination, or does it seem like players have to learn how to play football all over again, once they become AFL players? They learn one way through their junior careers and then have to learn all over again once in the AFL system? Just seems like crazy and unnecessary stuff to me.
The game has changed at AFL level. Gone from a long kicking game to a short passing one due to the advancement in fitness, mass bench rotations and defensive tactics and techniques. You'll find the number of effective kicks on average competition wide in the AFL has fallen in the past 10 years due to this. Soccer went through the same thing and it took an emphasis on elite skills to counter it. It's more risk analysis in some ways than sport if you know what I mean.
The pendulum in the AFL will swing back in time to a more attacking game but you'll need elite skills and footy smarts to do it. The days of the likes of Duncan and Gas having a long AFL career are gone. You need to recruit/draft players with elite skills especially by foot and a elite footy brain. You're wasting your time otherwise no matter what other attributes they bring to your club.
If players lose confidence and form playing a style that’s foreign to them then where’s the responsibility from the coaches to ensure that doesn’t happen? Who and what are they actually concerned about? There are no guarantees with any player, but where’s the club’s responsibility to ensure players show a degree of consistent and sustained improvement? If players aren’t up to it then there’s not a lot anyone can do about that. But, RFC seems to put it back on the system and the cost involved in letting players go, etc., etc. At this rate, 2011 seems a bit ambitious.
Don’t mean to be so critical, but even allowing for the fact that sometimes you need to go backwards in order to go forwards; given RFC’s methods, I fail to see how and when sustained improvement is going to be a reality for any of our players.
Players need to understand why they need to play this "modern" strategic style. It needs to be intuitive too within the team rules. Watch the game and weigh up the player with the footy's options and where they should go:
1) Kick long to contest = 50/50. Too risky from a mark/free kick situation as there's a 1 in 2 chance the ball will end up going back over your head for a opposition goal. Worse than 50/50 if the opposition has a loose man back and double teams the intended receiver;
2) Kick short sideways or backwards inside defensive 50 = 95% conversion but you haven't gone anywhere as a team. Too safe if you're attacking but if you want to maintain control of the ball or set up an attack again in the centre corridor or stop the momentum of the opposition if they have a run then a necessary evil;
3) Kick a medium pass to a teammate leading hard into space = say a probability of 70% but it he can then get the ball moving quicky then it opens up the play and hence the opposition's defence to score a goal or give space to the forwards to lead into.
That's the game now. It's strategy as much as footy. Players need to think their way through the game. They need to be able to read it 2-3 plays ahead. Many of our players either don't or can't understand the strategy behind what they are doing. Either way they appear confused and get themselves into trouble.
Sure it's simpler for a player to just get the ball and bomb it forward to a contest like in the old days but those days are gone as it's more often than not a poor percentage option that will end up in a turnover.
Each player has to take responsibility for their part, no question, but if we were all disciplined enough to push ourselves to do the things we need to do then there would be no need for coaches. And if the coaches are accepting of these traits and habits you mention, MT, then why should the players change or do any more than they need to? It’s human nature for us to test the boundaries, and if there are no set boundaries then we simply create our own. The problem is there never seems to be any real consequences for players and so the boundaries just continue to be extended.
I know some of it comes back to the vicious cycle that we don’t have the depth to replace players, but if anything is to change in the future then RFC needs to start doing something different to this. Right now, and not when we have the ‘ideal’ list in place.
Agree TS but I was more talking about during a game when the players need to make the correct decisions as well as execute them. As much as the coach can instruct and demand, it's the player with the footy who has the final say in this situation. A player especially a senior player should be aware of poor percentage options. Kicking blindly and lazily up in the air to a Bulldog inside our forward 50 is one of them :scream.
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l think some of you dont understand the term REBUILDING a club & its playing list
there is still alot of work to be done you just cant become a coach & put together a new coaching staff & fix things in a few years
It needs to be done over a long period …
Maybe I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I understand plenty, Tigermonk. There is a lot of work to do. However, there’s more to coaching than simply adopting a game plan and waiting for the young players to gain experience, which is what TW’s approach seems to be based on. Just waiting for the right circumstances to arrive. Where’s the evidence that suggests otherwise?
In part, it does take time to make things happen, no question. However there’s the other side to developing players that RFC simply doesn’t have a handle on. Even when our list is where it should be, how can we have the confidence to know that our players can produce anything other than limited results, unless they have the tools to take them to the level required? It’s all well and good to put in the work, but if the energy is being put into the wrong areas then it’s unreasonable to expect to see improvement further down the track, when there’s barely a hint of improvement now. I’m not expecting anything out of the ordinary here, just a hint that the Club has a clue.
RFC and TW have done a lot of talking lately, but none of it convinces me of anything.
The true evidence that RFC knows how to develop a team is by the traits they display out on the field. And from what we’ve seen so far, our players are no more advanced than they were three seasons ago.
I don’t need to wait until 2011 to know how good we’ll be then. I already know, because, regardless of whether we have the ideal list at the moment, you can tell that we’ve done nothing of any significance to instill in our players the traits and habits that can bring about sustained improvement, now or ever.
Denis Pagan has got more out of his players, even though their list was way behind ours a couple of seasons ago, to the point where they are so far in front of us now it’s laughable. Even at their worst, they could still generate enough passion and spirit amongst their players to win games of footy. On the other hand, we simply need to wait for the right time and the right set of circumstances so that we can get results.
People can point to recruiting and whatever else, the fact of the matter is that RFC was and still is living in la la land, when it comes to developing players. And until this changes then we can recruit the cream of the crop for the next 10 years, and it will change nothing of any significance. Only bring more frustration.
??? & where is Carlton they lose 1 player & they crash back to earth & Fevola loses his head
but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing
so you must think really bad of teams like Bulldogs, Saints, Demons, & others who have flogged us & not got any silverware in all them years l dont hear there supporters screaming like some tigers supporters
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but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing
Coughlan can't kick, Knobel is a dud, Hall is a dud and Hartigan has bad skills.
We're not good enough and that's a fact. Would you want us to be 3-1 or 2-2, wall-papering over the cracks, or 0-4 and we're finally realising that it's not the young guys who aren't good enough, it's the senior players and their bad skills that are hurting us.
This years theme is 'Generation Next - The Tiger Movement' so lets get the kids in.
P. Bowden kicks 5, J. Riewoldt kicks 5. They bring in P. Bowden and he does nothing, they could have brought in J. Riewoldt and he might have done nothing, but he is the future, he has plenty of enthusiasm and would be getting experience.
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??? & where is Carlton they lose 1 player & they crash back to earth & Fevola loses his head
but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing
True Tigermonk that injuries to best 22 players can have a dramatic effect on middle of a road sides and we are suffering from missing Brown, Cogs and Thursty and a underdone Simmo but they would only give us wins against other middle of the road sides like in the past 2 years. Knobel, Hall and Hartigan are fringe players for us.
It is a positive that we've played so poorly yet haven't been thrashed on the scoreboard. Also a positive from the weekend was having 30 scoring shots on which 20 of them came in the second half. When we actually used the ball properly and worked hard as a team to support on another in numbers and put pressure on the opposition we can be dangerous. The problem is we can only do it for a quarter or so and our senior players are our main culprits in poor disposal and decision making that gifts soft possession and goals to the opposition.
The next 4 weeks will be test for our morale in the face of consecutive losses as far as remaining competitive on the scoreboard goes.
so you must think really bad of teams like Bulldogs, Saints, Demons, & others who have flogged us & not got any silverware in all them years l dont hear there supporters screaming like some tigers supporters
I know this wasn't directed at me tigermonk but the Vic sides are ordinary and just making up the numbers. The Dogs will struggle to make the eight if they play like they did on Friday night. Good sides won't turnover the ball and give them soft posessions and goals like we did. Their too short in defence and miss a big key forward target to kick to when pressured in the midfield.
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Burgo's Take: It's tough from 0-4
By Matt Burgan
afl.com.au
April 23, 2007
HISTORY says Richmond and Melbourne will not win this year's premiership or even make the top four in 2007.
To put that in perspective, only the famed 1975 North Melbourne premiership team started the season with a 0-4 win/loss record before it etched its history-making status and won its first flag.
And since the top eight was introduced in 1994, no team has made the finals after dropping their opening four matches. When you consider the 2006 AFL finalists didn't lose any more than three in a row, it's a tougher climb than Everest.
In today's football environment, both Richmond and Melbourne will be under the pump from all sections, as they are the only two teams without victories after four rounds.
The simple reality is both teams have been struck by injury, which has severely hindered their structures and list management.
For Richmond, it could ill afford to have Nathan Brown and Mark Coughlan on the sidelines, while the unfairly maligned trio of Kent Kingsley, Ray Hall and Trent Knobel would have helped the Tigers' structure no end.
Granted, the Tigers have had opportunities to nail some victories early in the season, but it would have been interesting to see how a sprinkling of important players may have impacted on those results.
But having Kingsley up forward would ease the load on Matthew Richardson while having Knobel provide a chop-out for Troy Simmonds, who is only now returning from a limited pre-season due to an ankle injury, could also help their cause. Hall is also another tall option down back.
Richmond coach Terry Wallace has spoken publicly about his team's future prospects and although he has been lambasted by certain quarters, he is spot on.
Its past three NAB AFL Drafts have netted some promising talent, but many of them, such as Danny Meyer (2004), Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls (2005) and Shane Edwards (2006) need time.
Entering the season, Richmond's list had a look about it that pointed towards the future and not this year. All and sundry with the yellow and black needed to be aware of this, hence why Wallace spoke of the next decade with excitement.
If the club was to make an impact this year, it didn't need the likes of Brown and Coughlan going down. Not Richmond. Some lists are far better equipped to handle the loss of key players better. Unfortunately, the Tigers are not in this position.
Richmond and Melbourne's situation will place Wallace and Neale Daniher under unfair scrutiny. It's folly to think their coaching ability diminishes, simply because of the predicament they now find themselves in.
It's no surprise to see the Bombers flying up at this stage of the season. Unlike last year, Essendon, along with the Brisbane Lions, was riddled with injuries throughout their list.
Black clouds were predicted by many for the Bombers in 2007. Yet the good run with injury (so far), the return of key players, the introduction of some good new recruits and the continued development of several players have helped their cause.
All of a sudden, Kevin Sheedy is a genius again, which is hilarious when you consider last year's situation. He was always going to be up against it in 2006 and the loss of key personnel last year shouldn't have reduced his status entering this year.
The ‘doom and gloomers’ predicted it was his last year at the helm.
But now the Sheedy magic is back. And so is skipper Matthew Lloyd. Funny about that.
The loss of key cattle is the catalyst why Richmond and Melbourne are struggling – and like the majority of clubs, they cannot to have major alterations to their best structures.
Call it an excuse. Call it a reason. But call it fact.
http://afl.com.au/Season2007/News/NewsArticle/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsId=41786
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No S H I T Burgo
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"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the
strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The
credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but
who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a
worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring
greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who
knew neither victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt
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??? & where is Carlton they lose 1 player & they crash back to earth & Fevola loses his head
I find it hard to believe that you think one game proves a point? Carlton were wooden spooners last year and WCE are the reigning premiers. In case you need reminding. They got beaten over in the west. Why is that a surprise, or reason to think they’ve come crashing back to earth?
My point is based on a number of seasons, and not just one game. Even though Carlton were penalised draft picks several years ago, they have taken their list and rejuvenated it, despite it resembling the foreign legion about 3 seasons ago. They play a more watchable and exciting brand of footy, and can win games on confidence, enthusiasm, passion and spirit, which I can’t say about our team.
Their supporters can be under no illusions as to how good or not their team is because Pagan, generally, lets them play a style that doesn’t hide, camouflage or misrepresent how far they still have to go. Some of our supporters thought we would make the eight this season, based on our previous two years and that they thought that was the natural progression of things. I wasn’t one of them. Mainly because I hadn’t seen anything to convince me that we had even scratched the surface of becoming a hard nosed team.
On top of everything else, Carlton has a coach with a long history of getting the best out of players and getting them to play as a team. He’s turned outside players in to inside players and kept his cool, and his mouth mostly shut, under immense pressure.
And even though they’ve been through some harsh seasons, based on what we’ve seen so far, I’m more convinced that they are further advanced, as a team, than ours is, at this stage. Given Pagan’s track record, there’s no reason why they shouldn’t continue to improve.
but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing
Don’t know what it is you think I’m saying Tigermonk. What I am saying is that RFC doesn’t know how to develop players. I’ve been saying it for around a decade. So, whether you agree with this or not, effectively, what difference would it make which players are in the team or not? It wouldn’t convince me of anything even if we had our whole list out there, and had no injuries for the entire season, because any improvement we see in players and the team is never consistent and sustained. It hasn’t been that way for years and it doesn’t look like it is now.
An injury depleted Crows were able to beat the Swans on the weekend. Did they use injuries as an excuse? No, the players who came into the team were more than adequate replacements, and they just got on with winning a game, rather than feeling sorry for themselves and using injuries as an out clause for their efforts. When RFC gets to that stage then maybe I’ll be convinced that something has changed.
RFC promotes players, in order to give hope to supporters for the future. Maybe it worked with me in the past, but I’ve become cynical about these things. Purely because the players they’ve promoted in the past have never gone on with the promise they previously showed.
So, either we recruit the wrong players or we don’t know how to develop them. Either way the Club has to take responsibility and see where things need to change.
so you must think really bad of teams like Bulldogs, Saints, Demons, & others who have flogged us & not got any silverware in all them years l dont hear there supporters screaming like some tigers supporters
I've got enough problems of my own supporting Richmond, without worrying about other Clubs and their woes. Is there anything wrong in wanting to see your Club improve and be able to get the best out of its players?
All I would like is to see the Club work its way through where the actual problem is and do something constructive about it, rather than bury its head in the sand, pretend we’re on track, and then make someone the scapegoat. Is that too much to ask? If that makes me a bad supporter then so be it.
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Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.
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The game has changed at AFL level. Gone from a long kicking game to a short passing one due to the advancement in fitness, mass bench rotations and defensive tactics and techniques. You'll find the number of effective kicks on average competition wide in the AFL has fallen in the past 10 years due to this. Soccer went through the same thing and it took an emphasis on elite skills to counter it. It's more risk analysis in some ways than sport if you know what I mean.
I know what you mean MT, and the reasons why it’s changed. But I thought it was sport, and that it’s supposed to thrill and inspire people, not put them to sleep. But anyway. :banghead
Players need to understand why they need to play this "modern" strategic style. It needs to be intuitive too within the team rules. Watch the game and weigh up the player with the footy's options and where they should go:
That’s all well and good, but what if they don’t, what then? And maybe this is where we’re at. So, who’s at fault? The players because they can’t or won’t play the style TW wants them to play, or TW because he wants them to play a style they’re never likely to get? Not under pressure, anyway. The options are that TW cuts his losses with certain players, he gets them to play a style that suits them, or he cops the scrutiny. It’s his call. Is that too simplistic?
That's the game now. It's strategy as much as footy. Players need to think their way through the game. They need to be able to read it 2-3 plays ahead. Many of our players either don't or can't understand the strategy behind what they are doing. Either way they appear confused and get themselves into trouble.
For whatever reason, maybe part of the problem is that they don’t work together enough to work through tough situations. And individuals are often left to do it on their own. I thought that’s what being in a team was all about, you know working together. Not sure if we’ve fully grasped that concept just yet. Occasionally we see a good passage of team play, but it doesn’t happen often enough. Maybe a lot of it has to do with having a core group of players together for a number of seasons, rather than the chop and change situation we have.
Agree TS but I was more talking about during a game when the players need to make the correct decisions as well as execute them. As much as the coach can instruct and demand, it's the player with the footy who has the final say in this situation. A player especially a senior player should be aware of poor percentage options. Kicking blindly and lazily up in the air to a Bulldog inside our forward 50 is one of them :scream.
Not that you’re bitter about it, or anything MT. :whistle
You play the way you train. If a player repeatedly offends, whether it’s in a game or at training then it’s no longer his fault, if he’s continually allowed to get away with these things. It just seems like we make it impossible to ever improve. There are no consequences so nothing ever changes.
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Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.
Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.
Sounds good to me Tigertailz. :thumbsup
The good thing about Pratt is that he seems to have an understanding of the footy culture and also has a great affinity for his Club.
Best of all, he doesn't waste much time telling everyone what he's going to do, he just does it.
Wonder if there's a Richmond supporting equivalent out there. :pray
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That’s all well and good, but what if they don’t, what then? And maybe this is where we’re at. So, who’s at fault? The players because they can’t or won’t play the style TW wants them to play, or TW because he wants them to play a style they’re never likely to get? Not under pressure, anyway. The options are that TW cuts his losses with certain players, he gets them to play a style that suits them, or he cops the scrutiny. It’s his call. Is that too simplistic?
Pretty much spot on TS I would've thought. Plough's predecessors in the past 10 years failed to evolve and they and of course the team failed. This year is make or break for Wallace. I don't mean it'll get to the stage where his job will be at risk but the decisions he makes during and especially at the end of the season will go a long way to determining whether he'll succeed or fail.
For whatever reason, maybe part of the problem is that they don’t work together enough to work through tough situations. And individuals are often left to do it on their own. I thought that’s what being in a team was all about, you know working together. Not sure if we’ve fully grasped that concept just yet. Occasionally we see a good passage of team play, but it doesn’t happen often enough. Maybe a lot of it has to do with having a core group of players together for a number of seasons, rather than the chop and change situation we have.
I think you're right TS. Since 1980 we have only really brought through a group of youngsters together twice. The first time started by KB in 1988 and nutured by Northey which gave us the Knights, Cambo, Richo, etc generation and now the 2004+ group we have now. Compare that to say Sheedy who has regenerated the Bombers at least 6 times in his 26 years in charge. That's roughly once every 4-5 years.
Not that you’re bitter about it, or anything MT. :whistle
You play the way you train. If a player repeatedly offends, whether it’s in a game or at training then it’s no longer his fault, if he’s continually allowed to get away with these things. It just seems like we make it impossible to ever improve. There are no consequences so nothing ever changes.
Not bitter TS but just frustrated that some of our senior players don't seem to have pride in their own performance nor follow obvious elements of the gameplan as WP alluded to in another thread. Then again maybe that is their best and it's simply a fact that their best isn't good enough to take us to the level we all want the team to reach :-\.
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but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing
Coughlan can't kick, Knobel is a dud, Hall is a dud and Hartigan has bad skills.
We're not good enough and that's a fact. Would you want us to be 3-1 or 2-2, wall-papering over the cracks, or 0-4 and we're finally realising that it's not the young guys who aren't good enough, it's the senior players and their bad skills that are hurting us.
This years theme is 'Generation Next - The Tiger Movement' so lets get the kids in.
P. Bowden kicks 5, J. Riewoldt kicks 5. They bring in P. Bowden and he does nothing, they could have brought in J. Riewoldt and he might have done nothing, but he is the future, he has plenty of enthusiasm and would be getting experience.
"Coughlan can't kick" surely a Tiger supporter wouldn't say that l'm just gunna ignore that statement that is purely not worth answering
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l think some of you dont understand the term REBUILDING a club & its playing list
there is still alot of work to be done you just cant become a coach & put together a new coaching staff & fix things in a few years
It needs to be done over a long period thats why Richmond has given TW a 5 year contract cause with his plans & what the board had talked about it would be at least that to get the club back on track & to gell together a good playing list
remember TW came to the club when it was broke on its knees & the list was not good & moral from Frawley & humilating defeats was not good
Until the club starts stringing wins together & become a hard & unpredictable team to beat in the mold of ?? Western Bulldogs Sydney, West Coast, Adelaide, St-Kilda then none here will be satified & those who think they know best will be critic's of the coach & players
Its time some of you forum trolls started supporting our cause & stop destroying it as its being built up you will only damage the young players with your wraith
:gotigers
:bow
Worth bumping :thumbsup
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??? & where is Carlton they lose 1 player & they crash back to earth & Fevola loses his head
but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing
so you must think really bad of teams like Bulldogs, Saints, Demons, & others who have flogged us & not got any silverware in all them years l dont hear there supporters screaming like some tigers supporters
Another worth bumping - voice of reason :thumbsup
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Well Wallet shouldnt have come out and said that we will finish 9th again.
It is the worst thing he has said and what has gotten a lot of people off side.
There is no doubt that the rebuilding process will take atleast 5 years. I dont even expect us to be in contention for a flag in his 5th year. Finals hopefully but no flag.
Sure Wallet may have been mis-quoted but his comments were not thought through and all he was doing was trying to be a show off once again.
One thing we must start doing is drafting the best player available at each selection.
There have been TOO many speculative choices.
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Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.
Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.
Sounds good to me Tigertailz. :thumbsup
The good thing about Pratt is that he seems to have an understanding of the footy culture and also has a great affinity for his Club.
Best of all, he doesn't waste much time telling everyone what he's going to do, he just does it.
Wonder if there's a Richmond supporting equivalent out there. :pray
Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers! :pray :pray :pray
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Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.
Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.
Sounds good to me Tigertailz. :thumbsup
The good thing about Pratt is that he seems to have an understanding of the footy culture and also has a great affinity for his Club.
Best of all, he doesn't waste much time telling everyone what he's going to do, he just does it.
Wonder if there's a Richmond supporting equivalent out there. :pray
Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers! :pray :pray :pray
Not Crazy John? :-\
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Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers! :pray :pray :pray
Famous Fans :-\
Waleed Aly - Lawyer and Social Commentator
Dallas Brooks - Former Governor of Victoria
Russell Crowe - Academy Award-winning Actor
Denise Drysdale - Television Personality and Comedian
Ted Egan - stuff Musician and Administrator of the Northern Territory
Derek Guille - Radio Presenter
Rex Hunt - Television and Radio Personality
John Ilhan - Mobile Phone Entrepreneur
Simon Katich - Test Cricketer
Stephen Mayne - Journalist and Shareholder Activist
Anthony Mithen - Sports Journalist and Radio Presenter
Mick Molloy - Comedian, Writer, Producer and Actor
Livinia Nixon - Television Presenter
George Pell - Catholic Archbishop of Sydney
Steve Price - Radio Presenter
Paul Reiffel - Cricket Umpire and former Test Cricketer
Tony Schibeci - Radio Presenter
Caroline Wilson - Sports Journalist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Football_Club#Famous_Fans
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Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers! :pray :pray :pray
Famous Fans :-\
Waleed Aly - Lawyer and Social Commentator
Dallas Brooks - Former Governor of Victoria
Russell Crowe - Academy Award-winning Actor
Denise Drysdale - Television Personality and Comedian
Ted Egan - stuff Musician and Administrator of the Northern Territory
Derek Guille - Radio Presenter
Rex Hunt - Television and Radio Personality
John Ilhan - Mobile Phone Entrepreneur
Simon Katich - Test Cricketer
Stephen Mayne - Journalist and Shareholder Activist
Anthony Mithen - Sports Journalist and Radio Presenter
Mick Molloy - Comedian, Writer, Producer and Actor
Livinia Nixon - Television Presenter
George Pell - Catholic Archbishop of Sydney
Steve Price - Radio Presenter
Paul Reiffel - Cricket Umpire and former Test Cricketer
Tony Schibeci - Radio Presenter
Caroline Wilson - Sports Journalist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Football_Club#Famous_Fans
Livinia Nixon - Television Presenter
oh yeah! :thumbsup
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??? & where is Carlton they lose 1 player & they crash back to earth & Fevola loses his head
but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing
so you must think really bad of teams like Bulldogs, Saints, Demons, & others who have flogged us & not got any silverware in all them years l dont hear there supporters screaming like some tigers supporters
Another worth bumping - voice of reason :thumbsup
Knobel, Hall and Hartigan arent in or best 22 and would struggle to get a game anywhere.
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??? & where is Carlton they lose 1 player & they crash back to earth & Fevola loses his head
but when you take players from the top 22 out of your lineup in the likes of Coughlan, Brown, Knobel, Thursfield, Simmonds, Hall, Hartigan, & a few others where would Richmond really be in your eyes if they were all on the ground that we would like l'm sure the results would be far different
we are not getting belted by 100 points with these players missing
so you must think really bad of teams like Bulldogs, Saints, Demons, & others who have flogged us & not got any silverware in all them years l dont hear there supporters screaming like some tigers supporters
Another worth bumping - voice of reason :thumbsup
Knobel, Hall and Hartigan arent in or best 22 and would struggle to get a game anywhere.
That's right, Jack. Terry has a lot of rebuilding to do. Plus the fact that even if they aren't good enough to play AFL, there was still no-one to replace them. Because Jack dearest, we are rebuilding.
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Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers! :pray :pray :pray
Gee Tigertailz I've gotta say I hope this isn't true (although Caro did make reference to it on Monday night) the off field side of the club is fine e.g the finances etc so IMHO there is no need for a change at this level. It isn't the answer. The problems we have right now are on field and I doubt very much that an off field revolution is going to fix it. March and the board + Steve Wright are not the ones out there kicking the footy and not following the game plan - that's the players.
The Richard Pratt/Carlton situation is completely different to the RFC. Pratt was bought in the fix the off filed stuff and yep he is doing it and granted it is clearly having an effect on the playing group.
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The Richard Pratt/Carlton situation is completely different to the RFC. Pratt was bought in the fix the off filed stuff and yep he is doing it and granted it is clearly having an effect on the playing group.
Appointing new coaches like we've done a few mid-term have had a positive effect on the playing group as well. But it's usually short-term and, like Carlton, we've struggled afterwards to maintain that.
If there are rumblings at the club after a couple of losses, and who can't see the long term vision of where this club is going, I'd be pretty peeed off. Richmond people really are pretty soft! :banghead
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Richmond people really are pretty soft! :banghead
just like the players lol :rollin :rollin :rollin
anyway im sticking with the team even though i have conceded defeat this yr, we wont get any where near teh 8 this yr
but i want changes
i want to see 2 things happen
1/ i want to see terry focus 100% on coaching the team, and i mean 100%, no media bs, and more hands on coaching, he sits back and watches too much. the players themselves in that survey even requested that they wanted terry to spend more time on teh training track coaching them!!!!
2/ greg miller must be sacked from the board and have nothing to do with the RFC! he is a fake, phony and w@nker! greg miller must go
3/ we need richmond ppl at the club, not ex bulldog hacks and terry's friends, we need ppl there that love richmond
if these 3 things happen i guarantee we will have success
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Knobel, Hall and Hartigan arent in or best 22 and would struggle to get a game anywhere.
thats a funny answer there jackstar thats why when they are fit there always in our side thats top 22
why do they get games if they are not up there with the rest its not cause they are replacing players its them always being replaced by youngsters
Hall when fit is a very good player can take on anyone of the tall forwards of other sides his proved this before
Hartigan is working his way back he was having one of his best games when injured ( Hamstring ) & we were all playing well when he went off the ground the backline crumpled in a heap we lost the game from a commanding lead & Hartigan also broke his leg last year but supporters like yourself will blame the player not what he goes through to give ya a precious win so he is being eased back he knows whats required & can do the task
Knobel would be supporting Simmonds when his fit he would be in the top 22 most of the time & when he was fit the team was playing better football
Ruckmen are hard to come by as you will see most of them aint multi skilled & have trouble kicking & drop marks often but maybe so would l if my arms were 6 foot in front of me & you got someone like Tivendale shooting his rockets at you that can take ya fingers back & wind ya
infact these 3 players would be in any of my Richmond sides if 100% fit
Ruckmen are there for fitness to work the ground having 2 is perfect most of the time Simmonds drops a mark is because the poor bloke is exhausted & fatigued
in my personal opinion Joel Bowden is being given tasks he should not be given he is one of the leagues best sweepers if Richmond wanted to help the backline last year l would have recruited Austin Jones as l admire the guy in the way he cleared the ball from the backline at St-kilda & was able to switch play quickly & he was dubbed a player who was not of AFL standards ( proved them wrong ) but what he did & the ease & time he had which is a huge problem we are having is catching the other teams out in there backhalf cause while we are chiping & going sideways thier just running back maning up Richo 2 on 1 when Shultz should be comming down ground to gather the ball and kick the blooding thing over Richo & them 2 defenders & scoring goals not sitting back trying to take a spec over the pack & you can blame TW for that & the forward coach for not implying that
hall taking the big defender postion of Bowden with a style like Dustin Fletcher with his gangly arms & style would suit our smaller defenders & midfielders like foley, deledio, l'm not naming the rest but our defenders are always going the mark not the punch cause if that ball hit the ground you got Deledio, Foley, Raines gathering
So it always Boils back to the backline thats why we miss Rayzor Hall he can take them on because Gasper needs support & he is needing more now while he is just comming into form
most of the goals kick against us are mistakes from the overwork backline cause the forwards aint do enough in trying to keep the ball in the forward 50
Look at the Coliingwood game the first half was brilliant apart from missing easy goals the skunks would have never won had we kicked them first half goals
anyway time for work but l finish with this and many who know me have seen posts of mine other the years about this & that is if you play broken & unfit players you deserve to lose cause it lowers the moral of other players who are fit to play be it a youngster or whatever any professional taking the side must be 100% because your holding up the career of another player who might just prove he is a bit better the door opens this is what holds clubs back from blooding youngsters
Johnson is not 100% nor is Tuck & a few others & that purely shows that if your winning most of the game & crumble its because there playing broken players & not capable of playing 4 quarters af hard football no wonder Johnson has made so many turnovers but thats the coaches fault & the player taking the field thinking his better than he is that he better than anyone else that can do his task & that lowers moral at clubs who lose constantly
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Richmond people really are pretty soft! :banghead
just like the players lol :rollin :rollin :rollin
anyway im sticking with the team even though i have conceded defeat this yr, we wont get any where near teh 8 this yr
but i want changes
i want to see 2 things happen
1/ i want to see terry focus 100% on coaching the team, and i mean 100%, no media bs, and more hands on coaching, he sits back and watches too much. the players themselves in that survey even requested that they wanted terry to spend more time on teh training track coaching them!!!!
2/ greg miller must be sacked from the board and have nothing to do with the RFC! he is a fake, phony and w@nker! greg miller must go
3/ we need richmond ppl at the club, not ex bulldog hacks and terry's friends, we need ppl there that love richmond
if these 3 things happen i guarantee we will have success
thats not good X if the players are requesting TW more on the training track the board should inforce he be there 100% at all times l never seen that servey but l must go work to be done go burn some fat of the fat chics :thumbsup
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Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.
Another factor that has aided Carlton no end TS is having a certain Mr.Richard Pratt as the prez.That man knows how to conduct business,has a huge input into the running of the club, and looks after the players like they are his own family.His influence has been enormous and i believe we need a person of his stature at our club.
Sounds good to me Tigertailz. :thumbsup
The good thing about Pratt is that he seems to have an understanding of the footy culture and also has a great affinity for his Club.
Best of all, he doesn't waste much time telling everyone what he's going to do, he just does it.
Wonder if there's a Richmond supporting equivalent out there. :pray
Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers! :pray :pray :pray
Not Crazy John? :-\
No not Crazy John...havent heard his name mentioned for a while now....Just between you and me TS,there is a definite equivalent out there and discussions have been taking place during the last week in regards to making it a reality.Lets all keep up the prayers! :pray :pray :pray
Gee Tigertailz I've gotta say I hope this isn't true (although Caro did make reference to it on Monday night) the off field side of the club is fine e.g the finances etc so IMHO there is no need for a change at this level isn't the the answer. The problems we have right now are on field and I doubt very much that an off field revolution is going to fix it. March and the board + Steve Wright are not the ones out there kicking the footy and not following the game plan - that's the players.
The Richard Pratt/Carlton situation is completely different to the RFC. Pratt was bought in the fix the off filed stuff and yep he is doing it and granted it is clearly having an effect on the playing group.
WP i wish it were true that the off field was ok...(as far as i know financially yes thats fine)
..but within a week i have heard 2 separate sources(who i highly rate as genuine and sincere) comment on the dramas taking place within the hierachy that its hard to refute or ignore and its got me wondering particularly after the wilson/miller intereview what on earth is taking place and what is being withheld and hidden away from the members and supporters