One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: TFL on December 12, 2007, 04:04:59 PM
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I really dont think you can help but be excited about Richmond Football Club moving forward in to 2008.
There has been so many positives over recent weeks with the National draft, Pre-season draft, end of year profit and offield appointments.
When you think about the youngsters coming through with another pre-season under their belts and a fresh new group about to show their wares, i think the future is really bright.
We also have a few senior players to add to the mix such as Simmo, Cogs, Morton and McMahon.
I really think we could be a suprise packet next year and really take it up to a most teams.
:gotigers
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you are so right :thumbsup
ps might want to change title, grammar isn't great :shh
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It is exciting but better temper the excitement with a bit of cold hard realism. Yes the RFC is doing some exciting things and is really pushing forward in all the right directions, but it will take a while for all these pieces to fall in place. Don't expect too much from next year or you are liable to set yourself up for a fall. We will take baby steps next year.
Ah what the hell, I'm excited :thumbsup But I found last year exciting too although I haven't found many people who got what I got out of last year.
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Yep lots of positive decisions and investments in the footy dept being made but reality will come between March and September. We're still a young side with 2/3s of our list 22 or under.
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I think I'm more excited about the prospect of the way we are going about bettering the club, not at the players and administrators we are getting (though, I'm excited about that too). To me, this off-season looks very similar on the outset to that of the Geelong Football Club's off-season in terms of the administrative arena; getting a bunch of people that generally would not be associated with AFL football, but undoubtedly bring something different an extra to the club. I remember reading in the Age a week before the draft about all of the Cats' appointments this time last year were made, and how that was a major factor on they're improvement as a club both on and off the field.
But more than that, the way we are going about selecting our players - and the hints given about how Terry Wallace will play the 22 this season is also promising, as it also seems quite similar to that of the Geelong Football Club - quick players all around the ground. I look at what Carlton had and what Essendon had and why they lost more games than they should have (especially Essendon) than their list says is because the football was moving to quick. I can legitimately see in a few years time, the Tigers going from their backline to their forward line in around 20 seconds very much like the Cats can do, and have done during the season just gone.
Long story short, I'm happy that we are mimicing the Cats as they are undoubtedly the most dominant team last season, and in my opinion, the decade (yes better than the 2000 'dons).
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If Cogs can come good, a fit Tuck can find his 2006 injury-free form and Foley can take another giant leap I will be excited - because our starting midfeild will be for the first time in my life semi-decent.
Throw Deledio and Cotchin on the wing and we should have a crack. 8)
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we think like this every pre season, then the wheels just fall off and we crash
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As the late BIG KEV would of said, i am excited :thumbsup
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Yes exciting times ahead
very much looking forward to 2008
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As the late BIG KEV would of said, i am excited :thumbsup
Are you really?
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I'm excited and will be even more excited if I hear that will come through the preseason relatively injury free. This will make a huge difference to our prospects.
I think Newman will be the surprize packet of the season playing in the midfield. He was fanatastic when he played under Sheeds in the International series in a similiar position and now has the maturity, body size and licence (now McMahon has joined the fold) to make an immediate impact.
Cogs and Simmo's fitness is crutial to our progression this year. With a injury-free Cogs it allows players like Foley, Tuck, Bling, Johnson and even Cotchin more freedom from taggers and more strength in and around the stoppages. Lids, Foley and the like suffered from being 'prematurely tagged' when in other stronger teams the more senior midfielders absorbed the tags so the developing players were more freed up. This is why players like Murphy seemed to be such a fantastic player at the start of the year when Stevens was taking the tagger but when Nick went down Murphy suddenly came back to earth with a thud.
Conversely Cogs maybe afforded the luxury of being left alone for the first part/half of the season so he can regain his poise and confidence while Axel takes the No 1 tagger. In any event having another strong midfielder to add to the mix helps the whole midfield unit.
Similiarly Simmo needs to be up and runningto be competitive in ruck duels and around the ground as a link up player. even when he played last year he couldn't run into space due to fitness and injuries so having him up and about will allow us to be far more competitive. In addition it means Patto can take the No 2 ruckman, which he would have normally been doing given his inexperience and size, and continue to develop. In many ways Pattos baptism of fire this year will fast track his development in the future but having the pressure off this year with Simmo back will certainly help our team structure.
Even though las year was poor in terms of results, I saw a lot of improvement in our club and team in general. We are on the right track and I believe with the addition of this year bumper recruits we WILL be a force once again in the competition building over the next 2 years.
:gotigers
Stripes
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I have a slight tingle in the loins (should see a doctor ;D ...or a nurse) but I prefer to go with the mindset of "We're crap until proven otherwise."
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At the start of every new year I would say hopeful (the excitment lays in wait underneath) Waiting Waiting
, a fit Tuck can find his 2006 injury-free form 8)
Seen Tucky doing extra work by himself at the tan a few times lately, so looks like he is keen and switched on to get back in good nik. :thumbsup
These guys are the keys. If cogs can come back and have an impact along with the likes of Tuck it is going to improve our side more than some may think IMO
The new cubs look good :pray
The lids and Raines (hopefully he can come good again next year) tambling polak polos r all comin along well.
Like I said the excitment is there but hidden away just for now ..... Anticipation may be the word :santa
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Whoa, I trust that the euphoria over the draft does not cloud the fact the Richmond is coming from a wooden spoon with a list largely in the development phase.
I am enthusiastic to see our list develop next year, but am not overly optimistic about getting out of the bottom 4.
Nonetheless, the building blocks at an administration level provide a platform for the development & improvement to be sustained over the coming years, but can't envisage a spike in performance in 08.
Would be happy to be proven pessimistic, but 2 spoons in 4 seasons will do that.
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Whoa, I trust that the euphoria over the draft does not cloud the fact the Richmond is coming from a wooden spoon with a list largely in the development phase.
Yes, but that doesn't mean much at the end of the day. The AFL is so even that a good run with injuries and our better players hitting form will mean see us competitive.
North, Collingwood and Hawthorn were top 8 teams last year. Each is pretty rubbish - one our day we are at least equally as good.
We were 7-2 a couple years back with a list infinatly worse that what we currently have.
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Whoa, I trust that the euphoria over the draft does not cloud the fact the Richmond is coming from a wooden spoon with a list largely in the development phase.
Yes, but that doesn't mean much at the end of the day. The AFL is so even that a good run with injuries and our better players hitting form will mean see us competitive.
North, Collingwood and Hawthorn were top 8 teams last year. Each is pretty rubbish - one our day we are at least equally as good.
We were 7-2 a couple years back with a list infinatly worse that what we currently have.
should we of been 7-2 though?
if it wasnt for some browny brillance it could of easily been 4-5, when he went down the wheels fell off which just showed how much we relied on him which wasnt good at all
im not getting excited until i see some pre season games and look at whats been done over the summer, the geelong and melb games at the start of this year were terrible and i knew from that point we were in trouble
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Whoa, I trust that the euphoria over the draft does not cloud the fact the Richmond is coming from a wooden spoon with a list largely in the development phase.
Yes, but that doesn't mean much at the end of the day. The AFL is so even that a good run with injuries and our better players hitting form will mean see us competitive.
North, Collingwood and Hawthorn were top 8 teams last year. Each is pretty rubbish - one our day we are at least equally as good.
We were 7-2 a couple years back with a list infinatly worse that what we currently have.
should we of been 7-2 though?
if it wasnt for some browny brillance it could of easily been 4-5, when he went down the wheels fell off which just showed how much we relied on him which wasnt good at all
im not getting excited until i see some pre season games and look at whats been done over the summer, the geelong and melb games at the start of this year were terrible and i knew from that point we were in trouble
No, we shouldn't have. We were pretty poo and overachived. But my point is its not that hard to do well in the comp - because of the very nature of the AFL (draft/salary caps) its all very even. A good run with injuries and your better players hitting form makes a massive difference. For example - if Hunter and Cox both do their knee round 1 were will WCE finsh?
There is not reason Browny can't go wacko again and or rip the league apart.. or Deledio takes a giant steps and becomes A-Grade, or Cogs and Simmo can get back to their best form.
You knew we were in trouble when we lost be 200+ points? Well done.
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I can't wait for Round 1. :)
Geez I hope we smash Judd and the Blue Scum.
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U23:
Raines Thursfeild McGaune
King Rance Polo
Cotchin Connors Edwards
Tambling Polak Morton
Collard Schultz Reiwoldt
Pattison Deledio Foley
Jackson Hughes JON Silvestre
Casserly Putt Gourdis Cartledge Meyer White Graham Collins
Future midfeild: Deledio, Cotchin, Foley, Connors, Tambling, Edwards, Polo, Morton, King, Raines, Jackson.
- of course they will not all make it. But chances are in 3 years a few of them should be impressive footballers.
The future spine is alot more promising than it was, say 4 years ago:
fb - Thusty
chb - Rance
3rd tall - McGaune/JON/Silvestre etc.
forward options; Reiwoldt, Schultz, Hughes, Gourdis.
All that is missing is a Trav Cloke/Hawkins power CHF. I beleive we need one of Hughes or Schultz to come good.
I like the look of the future forward like ^
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I'm happy with our development. Over achieving can be much more harmful than underachieving in a teams development IMO. It is too early for us to be serious contenders, you just need to look at the age and experience of the majority of our list and you can see there is a long way to go.
Overachieving before a team is ready just raises expectations and distorts perceptions which can lead to poor decisions. Things like topping up in the draft and offering unreasonably long contracts to players who may have played 1 good year. Underachieving, though disappointing and frustrating, causes tough analysis of where were are at and forces people to look objectively at the club as a whole. It encourages change and development.
Although 16th is a bit extreme, I am happy not to be a finals side ATM. I don't believe we are ready yet (sorry Richo, Bowden, Browny, Jonno. Hang around a few years boys. ;) ). I don't believe we have the necessary maturity to be a consistent finals team and I am sick of false dawns.
Looking at the list I reckon we are on the right track but I want to do it properly this time. Take your time boys. Yes I'm excited but I'm really excited by the prospect of 2 or 3 years from now.
EDIT : Damn spelling!!
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But my point is its not that hard to do well in the comp - because of the very nature of the AFL (draft/salary caps) its all very even. A good run with injuries and your better players hitting form makes a massive difference. For example - if Hunter and Cox both do their knee round 1 were will WCE finsh?
There is not reason Browny can't go wacked again and or rip the league apart.. or Deledio takes a giant steps and becomes A-Grade, or Cogs and Simmo can get back to their best form.
That's true given half the teams of the comp make the finals. Mediorce sides do make it but we would need no injuries, all our senior players in top form and our younger players having burst out years, for us to make the finals. Highly unlikely to be that lucky and then it hurts you in the long run anyway as RROFO suggested as you've overachieved and scored poor draft picks before going thud back to Earth the following season. 2001 all over again.
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I think I'm more excited about the prospect of the way we are going about bettering the club, not at the players and administrators we are getting (though, I'm excited about that too).
Nicely said Jobba and welcome to OER. The club is getting it's act together and moving into the 21st century focussed on the long-term. At the moment we are still catching up after years of neglect, infighting and just plain stupidity but all these investments recently put together will soon pay-off on-field in the next few years. That's why it's exciting. There's belief in the club again.
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I'm happy with our development. Over achieving can be much more harmful than underachieving in a teams development IMO. It is too early for us to be serious contenders, you just need to look at the age and experience of the majority of our list and you can see there is a long way to go.
Overachieving before a team is ready just raises expectations and distorts perceptions which can lead to poor decisions. Things like topping up in the draft and offering unreasonably long contracts to players who may have played 1 good year. Underachieving, though disappointing and frustrating, causes tough analysis of where were are at and forces people to look objectively at the club as a whole. It encourages change and development.
Although 16th is a bit extreme, I am happy not to be a finals side ATM. I don't believe we are ready yet (sorry Richo, Bowden, Browny, Jonno. Hang around a few years boys. ;) ). I don't believe we have the necessary maturity to be a consistent finals team and I am sick of false dawns.
Looking at the list I reckon we are on the right track but I want to do it properly this time. Take your time boys. Yes I'm excited but I'm really excited by the prospect of 2 or 3 years from now.
EDIT : Damn spelling!!
I don't agree so much. This is our 4th draft since Wallace has been here.
Deledio, JON, Reiwoldt, Cotchin.
That should be enough time to shape our list. Overachiving abit this season won't hurt. It'll be lightyears of good for Deledio/Connors/Foley/Thursfeild/Riewoldt/Tambling/Pattison for example to play, say 2 finals. I reckon we did pretty well last draft in terms of another 'influx' of talent. I think picking up the like of Morton and Collard has helped the process.
Time to start winning you'd hope. Otherwise we won't have success in the Richo/Brown/Bowden/Simmonds generation.
Collingwood fans would generally think their future is brighter due to comming top 8 draft than bottom 4. You'd wanna hope our young crop is just as good.
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But my point is its not that hard to do well in the comp - because of the very nature of the AFL (draft/salary caps) its all very even. A good run with injuries and your better players hitting form makes a massive difference. For example - if Hunter and Cox both do their knee round 1 were will WCE finsh?
There is not reason Browny can't go wacked again and or rip the league apart.. or Deledio takes a giant steps and becomes A-Grade, or Cogs and Simmo can get back to their best form.
That's true given half the teams of the comp make the finals. Mediorce sides do make it but we would need no injuries, all our senior players in top form and our younger players having burst out years, for us to make the finals. Highly unlikely to be that lucky and then it hurts you in the long run anyway as RROFO suggested as you've overachieved and scored poor draft picks before going thud back to Earth the following season. 2001 all over again.
I was kinda hoping 2005-6 was out 2001.
Sometimes people forget we finshed about Hawthorn 2 out of the last 3 seasons.
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All that is missing is a Trav Cloke/Hawkins power CHF. I beleive we need one of Hughes or Schultz to come good.
I like the look of the future forward like ^
I think we may have picked him up this year in either Gourdis or (yes you heard me) Putt.
I believe Gourdis could be a fanatastic lead up CHF who could be extremely evasive and extrordinarily difficult to match up on due to his pace and marking ability. Regardless of his kicking, which by the way looks far better than some people have reported, he will be a sensational link player in the future given his potential. Grooming him for the backline would be a mistake IMO.
Similiarly Putt would be a monster forward who played the last part of the season out as a forward rather than a Ruckman which highlights his skill and athletism. Depending upon the clubs needs over the next few years this could prove a tremendous luxury to play a guy of his height and kicking ability deep in the forward fifty.
Of course this is years down the track but the potential is there....
Stripes
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I don't agree so much. This is our 4th draft since Wallace has been here.
Deledio, JON, Reiwoldt, Cotchin.
That should be enough time to shape our list. Overachiving abit this season won't hurt. It'll be lightyears of good for Deledio/Connors/Foley/Thursfeild/Riewoldt/Tambling/Pattison for example to play, say 2 finals. I reckon we did pretty well last draft in terms of another 'influx' of talent. I think picking up the like of Morton and Collard has helped the process.
Time to start winning you'd hope. Otherwise we won't have success in the Richo/Brown/Bowden/Simmonds generation.
Collingwood fans would generally think their future is brighter due to comming top 8 draft than bottom 4. You'd wanna hope our young crop is just as good.
I see your point, I really do, but of the list you provided only the 2004 draftees will be anywhere near being able to take a responsible mature role in the team.
2004. Lid's? Maybe this year. Tambo? Still finding his feet maybe will take that step forward this year but I would bet 2009. Meyer? Lets get a senior game first hey. Patto? Thrown in the deep end, learnt a lot but still hasn't been played in position. Polo? Injured but probably on par with Tambo.
2005. You talk JON. How many question marks does this guy have? Same as Meyer, gotta play first. In fact Hughes and Casserley are in the same boat, one soft as butter, one injured constantly.
2006. Shining lights. Edwards and Connors look the goods and could step up this year. Still do you think it is fair to place too much responsibility on their shoulders. Jack has potential but hasn't proved anything yet. Collins, project player.
2007. I'm not even going to entertain any talk about these guys. I don't care how good Cotchin is he hasn't played a single AFL game. How unfair to place any expectation on his shoulders.
I can't help it. I look at the list and smile BUT I can't help thinking 2 years at least. I feel sorry for Richo/Brown/Bowden/Simmonds but I just don't see it happening. Maybe just. :-\ Prove me wrong boys!!! Please! ;D
Oh. I reckon the Scum are crap BTW. Majorly overratted, going nowhere. Good example of why not to overachieve.
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I don't agree so much. This is our 4th draft since Wallace has been here.
Deledio, JON, Reiwoldt, Cotchin.
That should be enough time to shape our list. Overachiving abit this season won't hurt. It'll be lightyears of good for Deledio/Connors/Foley/Thursfeild/Riewoldt/Tambling/Pattison for example to play, say 2 finals. I reckon we did pretty well last draft in terms of another 'influx' of talent. I think picking up the like of Morton and Collard has helped the process.
Time to start winning you'd hope. Otherwise we won't have success in the Richo/Brown/Bowden/Simmonds generation.
Collingwood fans would generally think their future is brighter due to comming top 8 draft than bottom 4. You'd wanna hope our young crop is just as good.
I see your point, I really do, but of the list you provided only the 2004 draftees will be anywhere near being able to take a responsible mature role in the team.
2004. Lid's? Maybe this year. Tambo? Still finding his feet maybe will take that step forward this year but I would bet 2009. Meyer? Lets get a senior game first hey. Patto? Thrown in the deep end, learnt a lot but still hasn't been played in position. Polo? Injured but probably on par with Tambo.
2005. You talk JON. How many question marks does this guy have? Same as Meyer, gotta play first. In fact Hughes and Casserley are in the same boat, one soft as butter, one injured constantly.
2006. Shining lights. Edwards and Connors look the goods and could step up this year. Still do you think it is fair to place too much responsibility on their shoulders. Jack has potential but hasn't proved anything yet. Collins, project player.
2007. I'm not even going to entertain any talk about these guys. I don't care how good Cotchin is he hasn't played a single AFL game. How unfair to place any expectation on his shoulders.
I can't help it. I look at the list and smile BUT I can't help thinking 2 years at least. I feel sorry for Richo/Brown/Bowden/Simmonds but I just don't see it happening. Maybe just. :-\ Prove me wrong boys!!! Please! ;D
Oh. I reckon the Scum are crap BTW. Majorly overratted, going nowhere. Good example of why not to overachieve.
It's not just up to the 2004 draft crop. The 2003 lot (now 5th year players) need to full the finger out - Foley, Jackson, Raines are all arugably in our best 22. You could throw Schultz into that age group
As for 2004, that is going to make or brake the club for the next 10 years. We need to get a fair bit of a future core from it. I think it's looking ok. Deledio/Morton/Tambling/Polo is a little midfeild contribution. Pattison is a good #2 ruckman/workhorse. McGaune and Thursty have shown enough. Anything Meyer does it a bonus really at this stage.
2005 is looking suss at this stage but Hughes comes from high stock (AA junior) and showed enough against the like of WCE and Geelong (when we got raped) for a 2nd year KPP. JON is always going to take time and Casserly needs a injury free season before we write him off.
2006/7 have given us mids in Cotchin/Connors/Edwards + Reiwoldt/Goudis/Rance etc.
We are still prolly too fair away but all you need is a couple things going right. If Polak can turn into a AA CHB or/and Brown can refind his best touch then they are likly to pull some of the kids into good form with them.
You say the scum are overrated, but I don't much rate North or Hawks as all that good.
Do you really think we are that fair behind Collingwood/North/Hawthorn?
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Whoa, I trust that the euphoria over the draft does not cloud the fact the Richmond is coming from a wooden spoon with a list largely in the development phase.
Yes, but that doesn't mean much at the end of the day. The AFL is so even that a good run with injuries and our better players hitting form will mean see us competitive.
North, Collingwood and Hawthorn were top 8 teams last year. Each is pretty rubbish - one our day we are at least equally as good.
We were 7-2 a couple years back with a list infinatly worse that what we currently have.
should we of been 7-2 though?
if it wasnt for some browny brillance it could of easily been 4-5, when he went down the wheels fell off which just showed how much we relied on him which wasnt good at all
im not getting excited until i see some pre season games and look at whats been done over the summer, the geelong and melb games at the start of this year were terrible and i knew from that point we were in trouble
No, we shouldn't have. We were pretty pooh and overachived. But my point is its not that hard to do well in the comp - because of the very nature of the AFL (draft/salary caps) its all very even. A good run with injuries and your better players hitting form makes a massive difference. For example - if Hunter and Cox both do their knee round 1 were will WCE finsh?
There is not reason Browny can't go wacked again and or rip the league apart.. or Deledio takes a giant steps and becomes A-Grade, or Cogs and Simmo can get back to their best form.
You knew we were in trouble when we lost be 200+ points? Well done.
plenty of "what ifs" which is always destined for failure imo, we are just not ready for finals
i wasnt talking about geelong in rnd 6 ::)
it was the nab cup game at skilled when we had no intensity and our structure was awful with simmo and knobel both injured, the melb game at princes park was rubbish aswell - yes it was early in the season but not good signs at all
all im saying is that im waiting until we play a few games first before getting my hopes up because although we are improving on paper it wont mean much if we get belted in our first game and the confidence in the group dies on its ass
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It's not just up to the 2004 draft crop. The 2003 lot (now 5th year players) need to full the finger out - Foley, Jackson, Raines are all arugably in our best 22. You could throw Schultz into that age group
As for 2004, that is going to make or brake the club for the next 10 years. We need to get a fair bit of a future core from it. I think it's looking ok. Deledio/Morton/Tambling/Polo is a little midfeild contribution. Pattison is a good #2 ruckman/workhorse. McGaune and Thursty have shown enough. Anything Meyer does it a bonus really at this stage.
2005 is looking suss at this stage but Hughes comes from high stock (AA junior) and showed enough against the like of WCE and Geelong (when we got raped) for a 2nd year KPP. JON is always going to take time and Casserly needs a injury free season before we write him off.
2006/7 have given us mids in Cotchin/Connors/Edwards + Reiwoldt/Goudis/Rance etc.
We are still prolly too fair away but all you need is a couple things going right. If Polak can turn into a AA CHB or/and Brown can refind his best touch then they are likly to pull some of the kids into good form with them.
You say the scum are overrated, but I don't much rate North or Hawks as all that good.
Do you really think we are that fair behind Collingwood/North/Hawthorn?
Schultz !?! Now you are making me laugh. The lad is lucky to still be on the list. Foley, Jackson, Raines. Of that group only Foley has really shown he belongs. Raines had 1 good year and one crap. Jackson ended last year a star ... in the VFL. Still got lots to prove. I have no idea about Morton or McMahon, we'll have to see I suppose.
Your making me sound very negative and really I am not. Look we are definitely on par if not ahead of Collingwood/North/Hawthorn in terms of youngsters. There's just a huge amount that needs to go right and experience tells me that these things never happen at the same time. The process will take a while, at least 5 years (2004 - 2009) and there will be things that don't go to plan along the way.
The problem we have is our senior group, we have some ok players but we don't have the out and out leaders that some of these other teams have. Brown could be but he's got his own problems. Richo is Richo, best to let him worry about himself. Bowden is a good speaker and no doubt talks well to the kids. Jonno is quiet and never really strikes me as inspirational though reports are he is good with the kids. All the really good teams have a strong core of senior players, we don't have that IMO. Our core of senior players that I am talking about are all still younger than 22. It's there, I can see it, but it's not ready yet.
As much as I like Simmonds, Pettifer, Jackson, Raines they are not the leaders I am referring to. Cogs maybe if he can get himself right and I have high hopes for Foley this year.
I appreciate people being excited. I'm excited. I just want to be realistic about it. This year (2007) I watched us go into the season with huge expectations only to see it come crashing down around our ears. There are reasons for this but there are a certain element in the supporter group that went absolutely feral. I personally did not enjoy having to read the BS from people who got way ahead of themselves this year.
I think we are on the right track. I think it IS possible that we will be successful in 2008 playing finals and the like. I hope it happens, but I think it is more likely we will make a small improvement next year accelerating into 2009, 2010 and beyond. However we achieve success I hope we build a strong foundation that will serve us for the next 10 or 15 years making us a force to be reckoned with. :thumbsup
Look, I'm not trying to force my opinion on you, you support anyway you like. I just wanted to say what I have said. I'll keep my peace now because I don't want to sound like a broken record and I will only start repeating myself.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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I believe Gourdis could be a fanatastic lead up CHF who could be extremely evasive and extrordinarily difficult to match up on due to his pace and marking ability. Regardless of his kicking, which by the way looks far better than some people have reported, he will be a sensational link player in the future given his potential. Grooming him for the backline would be a mistake IMO.
His kicking can hopefully be improved enough so that he's fairly reliable.
Travis Cloke is a shocking kick.
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All that is missing is a Trav Cloke/Hawkins power CHF. I beleive we need one of Hughes or Schultz to come good.
I like the look of the future forward like ^
I think we may have picked him up this year in either Gourdis or (yes you heard me) Putt.
I believe Gourdis could be a fanatastic lead up CHF who could be extremely evasive and extrordinarily difficult to match up on due to his pace and marking ability. Regardless of his kicking, which by the way looks far better than some people have reported, he will be a sensational link player in the future given his potential. Grooming him for the backline would be a mistake IMO.
Putt, another Paul Salmon maybe??????????????
Similiarly Putt would be a monster forward who played the last part of the season out as a forward rather than a Ruckman which highlights his skill and athletism. Depending upon the clubs needs over the next few years this could prove a tremendous luxury to play a guy of his height and kicking ability deep in the forward fifty.
Of course this is years down the track but the potential is there....
Stripes
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Look, I'm not trying to force my opinion on you, you support anyway you like. I just wanted to say what I have said. I'll keep my peace now because I don't want to sound like a broken record and I will only start repeating myself.
Just my 2 cents worth.
RROFO I see where your coming from and can appreciate your opinion. I look at it another way. 2007 we lost 3 key players Simmo, Browny and Cogs. Although Browny palyed a small part at the end of a losing season we played some pretty entertaining football taking it up to some of the fancied teams to 3/4 time only to be run over again and again. This year with a bit of luck these 3 will be back at there best or near best we hope. Our midfield is as fast as any, Foley lead the clearences to a losing ruck combo. Tuck played under an injury cloud all year. Our biggest problem is our backline. No body size, poor disposal, poor execution etc. etc. etc. Johno and Jackson will be "A" class taggers next year IMO. Polak will star at CHB. Simmo will be more mobile and will be able to drop back in the hole and free up Bowden to be more attacking. Mc Mahon will slot in nicely and add more experience. Rainsy hopefully wont have the pressure he was put under this year and will and may get more time in the midfield. The key is the backline plain and simple. The forward line should be able to look after itself( with better delivery). Richo, Lids, Petts, Browny Edwards crumbing, a decent CHF has to stand up. Schulz??? the dury is still out. IMO lucky to still be on the list. Hughes SOFT needs a lot bigger body, Jack lets hope!!!!!!
I am exited and looking forward to 2008. If we make the 8 great. 9th( I hate 9th) OK. Anything less another poor year.
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RROFO I see where your coming from and can appreciate your opinion. I look at it another way. 2007 we lost 3 key players Simmo, Browny and Cogs. Although Browny palyed a small part at the end of a losing season we played some pretty entertaining football taking it up to some of the fancied teams to 3/4 time only to be run over again and again. This year with a bit of luck these 3 will be back at there best or near best we hope. Our midfield is as fast as any, Foley lead the clearences to a losing ruck combo. Tuck played under an injury cloud all year. Our biggest problem is our backline. No body size, poor disposal, poor execution etc. etc. etc. Johno and Jackson will be "A" class taggers next year IMO. Polak will star at CHB. Simmo will be more mobile and will be able to drop back in the hole and free up Bowden to be more attacking. Mc Mahon will slot in nicely and add more experience. Rainsy hopefully wont have the pressure he was put under this year and will and may get more time in the midfield. The key is the backline plain and simple. The forward line should be able to look after itself( with better delivery). Richo, Lids, Petts, Browny Edwards crumbing, a decent CHF has to stand up. Schulz??? the dury is still out. IMO lucky to still be on the list. Hughes SOFT needs a lot bigger body, Jack lets hope!!!!!!
I am exited and looking forward to 2008. If we make the 8 great. 9th( I hate 9th) OK. Anything less another poor year.
Hope you right Rex, and you could be. I'm just a little more conservative in my enthusiasm than I used to be. RFC has scarred me for life. I do think next year we will be regarded as an emerging power. Remember when all the commentators talked so enthusiastically about Geelong even though they were missing the finals. That will be us.
:gotigers
I share your sentiments about 9th. Waste of a ladder position. You miss the top pick but don't get finals experience. Complete bastard of a season result!
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Schultz !?! Now you are making me laugh. The lad is lucky to still be on the list. Foley, Jackson, Raines. Of that group only Foley has really shown he belongs. Raines had 1 good year and one crap. Jackson ended last year a star ... in the VFL. Still got lots to prove. I have no idea about Morton or McMahon, we'll have to see I suppose.
RROFO, FYI, Jacko played in 13 of the last 15 rounds including the last 4 rounds of the season and had a ripper against the Pies so he is more than just a VFL
player as you put it.
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Schultz !?! Now you are making me laugh. The lad is lucky to still be on the list. Foley, Jackson, Raines. Of that group only Foley has really shown he belongs. Raines had 1 good year and one crap. Jackson ended last year a star ... in the VFL. Still got lots to prove. I have no idea about Morton or McMahon, we'll have to see I suppose.
RROFO, FYI, Jacko played in 13 of the last 15 rounds including the last 4 rounds of the season and had a ripper against the Pies so he is more than just a VFL
player as you put it.
I'm getting myself into trouble here. ;D First I didn't have my facts right about Howat, now I'm not giving Jacko the credit he deserves. Your right, he did finish the year reasonably well doing some good jobs. He played very well at Coburg and that's what has stuck in my mind.
Perhaps I should take my own advise and stop making things up. :rollin I'm outta here lol.
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I believe Gourdis could be a fanatastic lead up CHF who could be extremely evasive and extrordinarily difficult to match up on due to his pace and marking ability. Regardless of his kicking, which by the way looks far better than some people have reported, he will be a sensational link player in the future given his potential. Grooming him for the backline would be a mistake IMO.
His kicking can hopefully be improved enough so that he's fairly reliable.
Travis Cloke is a shocking kick.
ditto, gourdis could very well be our T Cloke. Both are very good athletes and Cloke, as you said, never was a great kick, long raking kick though, but overall pretty poor. If he can emerge as one of the best young KPPs whose to say Gourdis won't. So Terry please let Gourdis develop at CHF, please :pray
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Yes !
excited about 2008 ... like every pre-season ...
if there is one thing i see in this squad from previous squad's is that there will be players fighting for spots ...
Polak, McGuane, Rance - CHB
Bowden, McMahon, Raines - HBF
Coughlan, Tuck, Johnson, Tambling, Cotchin, Deledio, Howat, Polo, Foley - Midfield
Gourdis, Schulz, Riewoldt, Hughes, Richardson - Forwards
Newman, King, White, Raines - Back Pockets
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But my point is its not that hard to do well in the comp - because of the very nature of the AFL (draft/salary caps) its all very even. A good run with injuries and your better players hitting form makes a massive difference. For example - if Hunter and Cox both do their knee round 1 were will WCE finsh?
There is not reason Browny can't go wacked again and or rip the league apart.. or Deledio takes a giant steps and becomes A-Grade, or Cogs and Simmo can get back to their best form.
That's true given half the teams of the comp make the finals. Mediorce sides do make it but we would need no injuries, all our senior players in top form and our younger players having burst out years, for us to make the finals. Highly unlikely to be that lucky and then it hurts you in the long run anyway as RROFO suggested as you've overachieved and scored poor draft picks before going thud back to Earth the following season. 2001 all over again.
I was kinda hoping 2005-6 was out 2001.
Sometimes people forget we finshed about Hawthorn 2 out of the last 3 seasons.
True but the Hawks have a solid mid-age core now because Schwab didn't decimate their list like Spud did to ours. Clarkson inherited Hodge, Mitchell, Bateman and about a dozen others who are now in the mid 20s. Only 5 players were under 23 in their finals sides IIRC and one of them is Franklin. It would be great if we had the luxury of only needing to play the best 5 of our youngsters - Foley, Thursty, Lids + two others.
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But my point is its not that hard to do well in the comp - because of the very nature of the AFL (draft/salary caps) its all very even. A good run with injuries and your better players hitting form makes a massive difference. For example - if Hunter and Cox both do their knee round 1 were will WCE finsh?
There is not reason Browny can't go wacked again and or rip the league apart.. or Deledio takes a giant steps and becomes A-Grade, or Cogs and Simmo can get back to their best form.
That's true given half the teams of the comp make the finals. Mediorce sides do make it but we would need no injuries, all our senior players in top form and our younger players having burst out years, for us to make the finals. Highly unlikely to be that lucky and then it hurts you in the long run anyway as RROFO suggested as you've overachieved and scored poor draft picks before going thud back to Earth the following season. 2001 all over again.
I was kinda hoping 2005-6 was out 2001.
Sometimes people forget we finshed about Hawthorn 2 out of the last 3 seasons.
True but the Hawks have a solid mid-age core now because Schwab didn't decimate their list like Spud did to ours. Clarkson inherited Hodge, Mitchell, Bateman and about a dozen others who are now in the mid 20s. Only 5 players were under 23 in their finals sides IIRC and one of them is Franklin. It would be great if we had the luxury of only needing to play the best 5 of our youngsters - Foley, Thursty, Lids + two others.
It's not that unrealistic. Our 5 young blokes can be,say; Deledio, Foley, Thursty, Tambling, Cotchin. We could line up something along the lines of -
Moore Silvester* King
Newman Bowden McMahon
Tivendale Coughlan Johnson
Pettifer Polak Howatt*
Brown Richo Hyde
Simmonds Tuck Foley
Deledio Thursty Tambling Cotchin.
How, I would hope the like of Morton, Polo, Jackson, Raines, Reiwoldt, McGaune, Edwards, Connors and friends could co. could challange Howatt, Hyde, Moore, Tivendale etc. postions in the side.
I reckon Hawthorn is abit overrated, bit like North almost. Im not how many of; Dew, Guerra, Jacobs, Clarke, Osborne, Sewell, Ladson, McGylnn etc. are that much chop.
Coughlan, Newman, Tuck, Pettifer, McMahon, King, Polak, Schultz need to carry the side if we are going to have a big year I reckon - mid teir.
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lol at naming hawthorns worst players
they are a good side with the likes of hodge and mitchell etc in the middle, we have foley but he needs help and tuck and johnson dont cut it as quality mids
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But my point is its not that hard to do well in the comp - because of the very nature of the AFL (draft/salary caps) its all very even. A good run with injuries and your better players hitting form makes a massive difference. For example - if Hunter and Cox both do their knee round 1 were will WCE finsh?
There is not reason Browny can't go wacked again and or rip the league apart.. or Deledio takes a giant steps and becomes A-Grade, or Cogs and Simmo can get back to their best form.
That's true given half the teams of the comp make the finals. Mediorce sides do make it but we would need no injuries, all our senior players in top form and our younger players having burst out years, for us to make the finals. Highly unlikely to be that lucky and then it hurts you in the long run anyway as RROFO suggested as you've overachieved and scored poor draft picks before going thud back to Earth the following season. 2001 all over again.
I was kinda hoping 2005-6 was out 2001.
Sometimes people forget we finshed about Hawthorn 2 out of the last 3 seasons.
True but the Hawks have a solid mid-age core now because Schwab didn't decimate their list like Spud did to ours. Clarkson inherited Hodge, Mitchell, Bateman and about a dozen others who are now in the mid 20s. Only 5 players were under 23 in their finals sides IIRC and one of them is Franklin. It would be great if we had the luxury of only needing to play the best 5 of our youngsters - Foley, Thursty, Lids + two others.
It's not that unrealistic. Our 5 young blokes can be,say; Deledio, Foley, Thursty, Tambling, Cotchin. We could line up something along the lines of -
Moore Silvester* King
Newman Bowden McMahon
Tivendale Coughlan Johnson
Pettifer Polak Howatt*
Brown Richo Hyde
Simmonds Tuck Foley
Deledio Thursty Tambling Cotchin.
There's way too many holes in that side:
Only one genuine ruckman who will be coming off an injury-riddled season and a interrupted preseason.
Silvester is unknown at AFL level even if he wasn't ineligible to play yet as a rookie.
Cotchin is unknown as it'll only be his first year.
If Howat and Hyde are getting games then we haven't improved from 2007. Moore showed signs late late late in the season but he's hardly done anything else at AFL level.
Just looking at the midfield and follower lines, only Foley had a season up to the level we need our mids to be at. Cogs is unknown after missing 18 months of footy and coming back from 2 knees.
Hawthorn still has its deficiencies especially in defence which makes their choice of Rioli over Rance odd but you can't compare those two lines of ours to Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Crawford, Bateman plus ruckman Campbell. Sewell, Osbourne, Ladson plus ruckman Taylor may be their second tier of midfielders but at least they have a second tier and notably one with experience.
I hate Hawthorn and hope their dumb 2007 drafting is a sign of them getting ahead of themselves but their best 22 for 2008 is stronger and far more experienced than ours.
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lol at naming hawthorns worst players
they are a good side with the likes of hodge and mitchell etc in the middle, we have foley but he needs help and tuck and johnson dont cut it as quality mids
Hodge and Mitchell are very good.
But Foley was the best inside mid in the league last season (stat wise in terms of contested 'hard ball gets' from memory). And he is fast, unlike any of the Hawthorn mids. Tuck at his 2006 near AA form is a pretty handy footballer also - hard as nails and a mature body, bit like Martin Pike. If Cogs gets back to somewhere near his best that stacks up pretty well against Hodge/Mitchel/Lewis I reckon. Johnson (underrated and a decent footballer) might well not be up to it, but hopfully one or more or Jackson/Raines/Polo etc. types are.
Hawthorns worst player or not - they were some of their most important and the backbone of the side that came 5th.
- Rank Name Games Average
- 2 Jordan Lewis 24 24.79
- 5 Brad Sewell 24 21.33
- 7 Rick Ladson 22 20.68
- 8 Brent Guerra 24 20.04
- 10 Ben McGlynn 21 16.71
- 12 Danny Jacobs 9 16.11
That's 6 of Hawthorns 12 players that averaged 16+ touches last season. Frankly Im not sure if I rate Jacobs as any better than Paddy Bowden, and the like of Guerra, McGlynn, Ladson etc. are good honest players but at the end of the day are plodders and not that crash hot.. I wouldnt have thought.
North, Hawthorn, Port and Collingwood are not that far infront of us IMO.
But my point is its not that hard to do well in the comp - because of the very nature of the AFL (draft/salary caps) its all very even. A good run with injuries and your better players hitting form makes a massive difference. For example - if Hunter and Cox both do their knee round 1 were will WCE finsh?
There is not reason Browny can't go wacked again and or rip the league apart.. or Deledio takes a giant steps and becomes A-Grade, or Cogs and Simmo can get back to their best form.
That's true given half the teams of the comp make the finals. Mediorce sides do make it but we would need no injuries, all our senior players in top form and our younger players having burst out years, for us to make the finals. Highly unlikely to be that lucky and then it hurts you in the long run anyway as RROFO suggested as you've overachieved and scored poor draft picks before going thud back to Earth the following season. 2001 all over again.
I was kinda hoping 2005-6 was out 2001.
Sometimes people forget we finshed about Hawthorn 2 out of the last 3 seasons.
True but the Hawks have a solid mid-age core now because Schwab didn't decimate their list like Spud did to ours. Clarkson inherited Hodge, Mitchell, Bateman and about a dozen others who are now in the mid 20s. Only 5 players were under 23 in their finals sides IIRC and one of them is Franklin. It would be great if we had the luxury of only needing to play the best 5 of our youngsters - Foley, Thursty, Lids + two others.
It's not that unrealistic. Our 5 young blokes can be,say; Deledio, Foley, Thursty, Tambling, Cotchin. We could line up something along the lines of -
Moore Silvester* King
Newman Bowden McMahon
Tivendale Coughlan Johnson
Pettifer Polak Howatt*
Brown Richo Hyde
Simmonds Tuck Foley
Deledio Thursty Tambling Cotchin.
There's way too many holes in that side:
Only one genuine ruckman who will be coming off an injury-riddled season and a interrupted preseason.
Silvester is unknown at AFL level even if he wasn't ineligible to play yet as a rookie.
Cotchin is unknown as it'll only be his first year.
If Howat and Hyde are getting games then we haven't improved from 2007. Moore showed signs late late late in the season but he's hardly done anything else at AFL level.
Just looking at the midfield and follower lines, only Foley had a season up to the level we need our mids to be at. Cogs is unknown after missing 18 months of footy and coming back from 2 knees.
Hawthorn still has its deficiencies especially in defence which makes their choice of Rioli over Rance odd but you can't compare those two lines of ours to Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Crawford, Bateman plus ruckman Campbell. Sewell, Osbourne, Ladson plus ruckman Taylor may be their second tier of midfielders but at least they have a second tier and notably one with experience.
I hate Hawthorn and hope their dumb 2007 drafting is a sign of them getting ahead of themselves but their best 22 for 2008 is stronger and far more experienced than ours.
Only one ruckman but you could have easily included a Polak as the 2nd ruck, or squeezed in Pattison. I did leave Cartledge out of the side. ;) There is your 2nd ruckman... As much as Silvester is unproven, he is 2 years older than McGaune. It isnt unreasonable to expect something from Cotchin. He will be no worse than Birchill or Ellis in 2008. He is Deledio, Cooney, Gibbs etc. class. 8) Hyde and Howat are both rubbish in their own right, but still (sadly) on the list. It's going to be intersting if Hyde (25) gets a gig in round 1 over the like of Edwards/Connors (still only 2nd year players) or Raines (average 2007). Moore has alot of tools to be a decent backline AFL player - speed/hight/decent skill.
Don't get me wrong, if it were up to me I'd like to see a side Round 1 something similar to:
King Thursfeild McGaune
Bowden Rance Connors
Deledio Cogs Cotchin
Richo Polak Morton
Edwards Reiwoldt Brown
Simmonds Tuck Foley
Pattison Pettifer McMahon Tambling
I just feel Wallace will look to the older players on the list early in the season.
That said.. do you really rate the like of Boyle, Guerra and Ladson that far ahead of Schultz, Newman and Hyde?
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do you really rate the like of Boyle, Guerra and Ladson that far ahead of Schultz, Newman and Hyde?
Schulz 12 games 14.14
Boyle 20 games 32.25
Hyde 13 games 14.9 disposals
Ladson 22 games 20.7 disposals
Newy 22 games 18.2 disposals
Guerra 24 games 20 disposals
I'm a fan of Newy's so I rate him highly and thought he had a good year playing every game considering he was coming back from a broken leg. However you seriously can't compare Sarge and Hyde's year to Boyle and Ladson's. Our two boys spent half the season in the VFL :P. Boyle dropped away after coming back from a hammy which may be a serious hammy as the Hawks considered trading him.