One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on April 12, 2008, 04:27:17 AM
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Richmond under the microscope
Mike Sheahan | April 12, 2008 | Herald-Sun
I HAVE been more than patient with Richmond.
Some say patient to the point of being afraid to turn the spotlight on Terry Wallace and Greg Miller. I prefer the "patient" line. Both men inherited massive tasks when they arrived at Punt Rd.
Now, though, I am prepared to join the chorus, to acknowledge both are on borrowed time.
It seems beyond doubt they will go unless there is obvious improvement. Quickly.
Time is more pressing for Wallace as the coach, but Miller has been there longer and has run the club's football operations for almost all of the current decade.
All major decisions, including the appointment of Wallace for five years - 2005-09 - the restructure of the recruiting department and recruiting policy, have been made or driven by him.
If a discernible level of improvement doesn't come this year, Richmond will be seen to have wasted roughly five years.
Improvement, of course, is subjective, but Wallace's 25 wins from 69 games isn't good enough. Particularly when the figures for 2007-8 are four from 25.
Only Carlton and Essendon have fared worse in Wallace's time, and we know what happened to their coaches last year.
The graph is moving in the wrong direction.
Let's assume the Tigers win six games for 2008, double their 2007 return. That would leave him with 30 wins from 88 games (34 per cent).
My patience finally expired watching Richmond be oh-so-Richmond against Collingwood at the MCG last Sunday.
The Tigers were nine goals down during the second quarter, finally losing by 44 points to a team that actually failed to impress its coach.
The Tigers lost playing the haphazard, indirect, error-ridden style we have come to expect from Richmond.
More handballs than kicks, 35 disposals per goal, and, worse, precious few who look like they might be high-quality players in the foreseeable future.
If the new Gold Coast club were to have unfettered access to the Richmond list right now, Nathan Foley would be the only player certain to be claimed.
If those in charge know their players, Chris Newman would get a guernsey, for he gives plenty on the field and even more within the club.
Will Thursfield would attract interest, too, given he is a young key-position player, but he's played just 25 games and it's not difficult to look above average in this group.
While Brett Deledio should be at the top of the list, he is in danger of becoming a victim of the culture at Richmond and never reaching the heights reasonably expected of a No. 1 draftee.
Here are the names of a few of those drafted after him in 2004: Jarryd Roughead, Ryan Griffen, Lance Franklin, Jordan Lewis, Nathan Van Berlo, Matt Rosa, Mark LeCras, Travis Cloke and Matthew Egan.
Yes, he is just 21 (next Friday), but all those other blokes were in his year, remember.
Deledio, like Carlton's Marc Murphy, has had a tough initiation, trying to make his way in a poor team and in the spotlight that comes with being taken first on draft day.
Obviously, it's been easier for others, yet it's apparent he needs to work harder. He should adopt Foley as his role model.
At the start of the current decade, Richmond and Collingwood seemed similarly placed.
The Tigers won nine games in 1999, Collingwood four, but the Pies had secured dual premiership coach Michael Malthouse.
Richmond remained ahead of Collingwood in 2000-01 before the Magpies forged ahead. Barring 2005, the Pies have finished higher every year since.
In the post-2001 period, Collingwood has won 74 games to Richmond's 42.
The Magpies look far more accomplished, cohesive and disciplined.
They seem better drilled and make far fewer mistakes.
They are younger, too, and far more exciting. Who at Richmond matches Travis Cloke (son of a Richmond great), Dale Thomas, Scott Pendlebury, Heath Shaw and Harry O'Brien?
Richmond hasn't introduced a new player this year. New to the level. Not one.
It played five newcomers in 2007 - Shane Edwards, Jake King, Jack Riewoldt, Daniel Connors and Angus Graham - and only King has been seen this year.
Perhaps change is in the wind. The team for the clash with Fremantle tomorrow afternoon includes Edwards and Riewoldt, and former West Coast youngster Mitch Morton. Connors is an emergency.
Richmond's recruiting record is poor. Both with tried and untried talent.
Matthew Richardson is the only genuine key-position player on the list, and centre half-back and centre half-forward (I regard Richo as a full-forward) are gaping holes.
It is a problem born of Greg Miller spreading himself too thin for too long, unable to give all the duties he took on the necessary attention.
I have been a long-time fan of Wallace's passion for the game and thirst for information, yet even fans are entitled to their queries.
WHY, for example, do the Tigers play a style predicated on good decision-making and clean disposal by hand or foot when they are poor decision-makers with sloppy disposal?
WHY can't Deledio be settled in one spot? He looked hopelessly lost playing as a forward in Round 1.
Perhaps he is going to be just another midfielder who can slip forward occasionally to capitalise on his kicking.
WHY, after being retained for yet another year, is Greg Tivendale given just one game before being dropped?
SIMILAR story with Chris Hyde. Still at the club, but with security no longer than a week. One or both cop it in the neck when the Tigers need a sacrificial lamb, and lamb is a fixture on the menu at Punt Rd.
WHY was Joel Bowden played on the nippy Paul Medhurst last Sunday when he has been so creative in the past on Anthony Rocca?
Yes, Thursfield is the long-term stuff, but wouldn't King have been better suited to Medhurst?
The apparent decision to play Bowden at Coburg this week obviously is a message to the group for he is clearly in the best 22. Best five, more like it.
WHY was the same King assigned Corey Jones against North Melbourne?
Jones stands 188cm and is good overhead; King can stand up in his locker.
In fairness to Wallace and company, Nathan Brown and Newman have both suffered horrific leg injuries during his term, Mark Coughlan has had two knee reconstructions, and Troy Simmonds was restricted to 10 games last year after such a promising season in 2006.
But, doesn't every club have injuries?
The next few months are critical for everyone at Punt Rd, from the top down, regardless of time left on existing contracts.
Supporters want - crave - something to sustain them. The best and worst of Richo is exciting, but it isn't enough.
It's wins they want, competitive performances at the very least.
For Wallace, that needs to occur sooner rather than later.
He is heading dangerously towards the Neale Daniher-Denis Pagan situation where a nasty end becomes inevitable.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23525461-19742,00.html
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Great Article. Dont dispute anything he has written :thumbsup
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Maybe. But it put me off a bit reading that bit "I have been more than patient with Richmond". Is Mike a supporter or even a member?
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He is extremely good friends with Miller.
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good article and all truth, he has been patient due to his friendships, but this article really does outline that miller and wallace have screwed up and we should waste no time with them.
it also shows mike sheehan could coach rfc better than wallace , cos he like us can see the bleeding obvious
not sure what terry wants, i think he is trying to reinvent the wheel but he just is not good enough or smart enough to so do.
watched the bombers last night, sure they lost, injuries have cost them, but bloody hell they play a great style of game. matty knights has them playing with confience and does not crucify his young players for making mistakes
knights allows them to just have a dip and run, and they have more no names than us
screw wallace and screw miller
i think a few on here owe jackstar an apology
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Yep, well written and on the money. There must be change at the end of this year.
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first article l read of his that l agree with, sumed it up great using Collingwood as the measuring stick who should be worse off than us.
Just proves what l said Collingwood have acheived more, :lol :lol
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Great Article. Dont dispute anything he has written :thumbsup
I dispute where he said the kids are no good.
It's just that Wallace wont play them to give them match experience to show they are. :-\
Apart from that, yeah. Right on the money.
first article l read of his that l agree with, sumed it up great using Collingwood as the measuring stick who should be worse off than us.
Just proves what l said Collingwood have acheived more, :lol :lol
Collingwood havent achieved more. Zero premierships to both sides in that time. ;) ;D
They've been better, no doubt, but they have no achievements to show it. :shh
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Kids are probably a bit light on,and really most of the kids arent any good, there aint any Thomas,s there etc.
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Our kids are overated by our supporters. Other clubs have more kids who are winners, ours are struggling. We are at fault because we dont recruit properly and we consistently waste our early picks.
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Kids are probably a bit light on,and really most of the kids arent any good, there aint any Thomas,s there etc.
See, probably. Because they say, and I have, oh its ok, we'll keep them in the VFL to get experience, it takes time and so we dont see kids bite the bullet and go for it because the coach has already said to them its ok you dont have to be any good yet. :-\
Jack Riewoldt has played VFL for 4 years (2 Tassie, 2 Coburg), there is nothing else he can learn by being there, the only way he'll get better is in the AFL.
Same goes to a lesser extent for Edwards and his SANFL experience and Rance and his WAFL experience.
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The writing is on the wall but who out there can take over?
Is Guy McKenna the only one? :-\
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Great Article. Dont dispute anything he has written :thumbsup
I dispute where he said the kids are no good.
It's just that Wallace wont play them to give them match experience to show they are. :-\
Apart from that, yeah. Right on the money.
first article l read of his that l agree with, sumed it up great using Collingwood as the measuring stick who should be worse off than us.
Just proves what l said Collingwood have acheived more, :lol :lol
Collingwood havent achieved more. Zero premierships to both sides in that time. ;) ;D
They've been better, no doubt, but they have no achievements to show it. :shh
alive champ they have no flags but they have hope, we haven't got that.
seriously our kids are no good and its almost like whoever gets drafted by us, whoever puts on the jumper gets infested with a disease.
we have a culture problem and it doesnt help when u have a coach who is a dud and a captain who is useless.
thomas, pendelbury, davis, marty clarke, heath shaw, cloke, all exciting guns.
ever wonder why david cloke didnt want any of his sons to come to punt road. cause we r poo.
he sees, everyone sees it and come round 10 wallace and miller who i believe are steering this club top its own train wreck can go get fcu.ked
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Great Article. Dont dispute anything he has written :thumbsup
I dispute where he said the kids are no good.
It's just that Wallace wont play them to give them match experience to show they are. :-\
Apart from that, yeah. Right on the money.
first article l read of his that l agree with, sumed it up great using Collingwood as the measuring stick who should be worse off than us.
Just proves what l said Collingwood have acheived more, :lol :lol
Collingwood havent achieved more. Zero premierships to both sides in that time. ;) ;D
They've been better, no doubt, but they have no achievements to show it. :shh
alive champ they have no flags but they have hope, we haven't got that.
seriously our kids are no good and its almost like whoever gets drafted by us, whoever puts on the jumper gets infested with a disease.
we have a culture problem and it doesnt help when u have a coach who is a dud and a captain who is useless.
thomas, pendelbury, davis, marty clarke, heath shaw, cloke, all exciting guns.
ever wonder why david cloke didnt want any of his sons to come to punt road. cause we r poo.
he sees, everyone sees it and come round 10 wallace and miller who i believe are steering this club top its own train wreck can go get fcu.ked
Haha being a younger tiger I still have some hope still flaming. I havent copped the full 28 year like you poor sods.
It's not that the kids are no good. It's that our development, our culture and more and more the match committee with their baffling decision are stuffed and out of touch. Each week it gets worse instead of better. :banghead
Clarke is a flash in the pan that still has to prove himself this year and Davis is almost 27 but yeah those 4 others are guns.
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im 31 man not that old...chill out dude
as for davis i threw him into the equation because i got blasted on this forum for saying id take him b4 pettifer anyday.
pettifer is a joke but the sad reality is most of our list over 25 WILL NOT WIN U A FLAG so play the goddam kids
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im 31 man not that old...chill out dude
Lol, I dont know why I need to chill out, but I'm only 20 so what I said still stands. :rollin
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im 31 man not that old...chill out dude
Lol, I dont know why I need to chill out, but I'm only 20 so what I said still stands. :rollin
20 yep thats young.
11 years more pain i have ahead of u.
to be honest i have not seen one change on field in this football club in the last 20 years...hope u see some
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ever wonder why david cloke didnt want any of his sons to come to punt road.
No, no need to because it's public knowledge. He's said why Cameron and Travis didn't.
He wanted Jason to go to Richmond but they took Coughlan instead, so Collingwood took him. David Cloke wanted all 3 sons to play together at the same club.
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Our kids are overated by our supporters. Other clubs have more kids who are winners, ours are struggling. We are at fault because we dont recruit properly and we consistently waste our early picks.
100% correct. the supporters fall in love with the McGaunes, JON, Reidwoldt , Hughes etc etc And dont forget Schulz ::)
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The writing is on the wall but who out there can take over?
Is Guy McKenna the only one? :-\
Round 12 and its not McKenna ;)
One guess!
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What a shame someone like Matty Knights has ended up at Essendon, his team is playing hard tough aggressive positive footy and they have a plan. Richmond is in no mans land at the moment playing wise.
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The writing is on the wall but who out there can take over?
Is Guy McKenna the only one? :-\
Round 12 and its not McKenna ;)
One guess!
Well since it is midseason I cant see an assistant coach wanting to be thrown into the fire or leave another club so you are pointing towards Sheeds or Daniher with your games?
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The writing is on the wall but who out there can take over?
Is Guy McKenna the only one? :-\
Round 12 and its not McKenna ;)
One guess!
Robbo just asked Sheeds about coaching again, GC, West Syd or the Tiges on SEN.
He got off Richmond straight away and said Voss becoming GC coach is basically a formality.
Robbo just tried to grill him to get an answer. And he's running away from it, finally an answer, just typical Sheeds, cant read much into it. Said, "Maybe I'll help Richmond" in a sly Sheedy way before saying Terry should coach out his contract.
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You bet me to it tigersalive on Sheeds :cheers
Dermie pointed the finger at our recruiting. Said we seem to get it wrong more often than most. If he was a Richmond official it would be the number one priority money wise. Huddo said recruiting and development was an area we didn't spend money on and cut back due to poor finances.
Huddo asked would the same list do better at Collingwood under Malthouse and their state of art facilities. Robbo said everyone would say yes as that's the perception.
Robbo also said someone should put a sign on Terry's desk - "the buck stops here". If he doesn't get involved in recruiting and leaves it to Miller then that's still his own fault and the club's putting so much faith in Miller and the recruiters. If it was Miller's job to do the recruiting then he has let Terry down badly.
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The writing is on the wall but who out there can take over?
Is Guy McKenna the only one? :-\
Round 12 and its not McKenna ;)
One guess!
Robbo just asked Sheeds about coaching again, GC, West Syd or the Tiges on SEN.
He got off Richmond straight away and said Voss becoming GC coach is basically a formality.
Robbo just tried to grill him to get an answer. And he's running away from it, finally an answer, just typical Sheeds, cant read much into it. Said, "Maybe I'll help Richmond" in a sly Sheedy way before saying Terry should coach out his contract.
can blame him for getting off the subject , can you ? ;)
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What a shame someone like Matty Knights has ended up at Essendon, his team is playing hard tough aggressive positive footy and they have a plan. Richmond is in no mans land at the moment playing wise.
The ideal situation was to have matty knights as coach and sheeds the director of coaching . RFC are too stupid, as all Miller and Wallace do is to protect there own backs and tell the board crap about the recruits etc
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Bucks says he points the finger at the players commitment as they can do it in 15-20 mins spurts but not for the entire game. It must be the culture down there. He also said the animals shouldn't run the zoo (referring to the players wanting to play 1-on-1).
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What a shame someone like Matty Knights has ended up at Essendon, his team is playing hard tough aggressive positive footy and they have a plan. Richmond is in no mans land at the moment playing wise.
The ideal situation was to have matty knights as coach and sheeds the director of coaching . RFC are too stupid, as all Miller and Wallace do is to protect there own backs and tell the board crap about the recruits etc
Cant the board read the ladder and see the win loss ratio lol.
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All three station have given us a massive bake today. Even Frawley on MMM jumped in getting stuck into Bowden for criticising him in private over Spud giving Joel a bake in front of the playing group when he was coach.
Cometti on 3aw called tomorrow's game Wallace's GF.
Tony Shaw said Lids was recruited as a gun midfielder but he can't break a tag. Just a good half-back flanker as anyone can get a kick there.
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I only heard the 3aw bake, it was a fair going over to lol. Read some reports of what was said on other stations, lets just say the media have declared open season on Plough, Miller and the RFC.
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A Sheedy-Hardwick ticket seems to have a lot of support from our supporters.
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Spoke to a few at Coburg today, would think Miller and Wallet will be shown the door at the same time.. Stay tuned.
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A Sheedy-Hardwick ticket seems to have a lot of support from our supporters.
oh go not Harwick... :(
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l tell ya something these tasmanians know poo about footy :rollin
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geez i arrive back from O/S from work commitments, a day to get over the lag and it looks like its a red rag to a bull with the RFC.
oh well as i posted at the start of the year i was told the fire and brimstone will come from the media and here we have it.
managed to sit down and watch the game from last week (pre recordered it) disappointing is a word im using lightly as per the display put on.
TW and Miller are just another in a long line of failures in the culture of the RFC from 82. :banghead
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We sell lots of papers Roger, the media know its on, theyve known since the fixture came out, every week we lose, they will pump up the pressure, the supporters will start jumping onto talkback radio, an environment or perception of crisis will be created, Wallace is in trouble. Only some wins will save him.
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yeah well you should have seen it live it looked ugly l can tell you :lol
lol wins ramp, l cant see any happening, l can see some bad floggings coming in the next few weeks
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LOL Mike regurgitating what was said on 3aw a week or so ago. Is there a single original thought in any of his articles. He compares us with Collingwood because that's all what Tony Shaw told him on radio. What's that old Dire Straits song :whistle.
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LOL Mike regurgitating what was said on 3aw a week or so ago. Is there a single original thought in any of his articles. He compares us with Collingwood because that's all what Tony Shaw told him on radio. What's that old Dire Straits song :whistle.
Whats even funnier, that Miller and Mike were good friends, not in moore .
I might add that Tony Shaws comments on the tiges were spot on,
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LOL Mike regurgitating what was said on 3aw a week or so ago. Is there a single original thought in any of his articles. He compares us with Collingwood because that's all what Tony Shaw told him on radio. What's that old Dire Straits song :whistle.
have just read the piece (fluff really), no nuts and bolts in there really...most have asked themselves the same questions have they not?
i think you will find that most in the media have just been waiting for one of their own the fire the first shot and from i have been told the radio waves were bristling with RFC bullets today (damn wish i wasnt sleeping).
personally after watching last weeks game (twice now) we as suppoters and members need to ask some serious questions what the hell is happpening down there.
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The failure of the playing side of this footy club has been a slur on us for the past 26 years. Of course the media are going to get on our backs. After all our on field performances have been newsworthy for all the wrong reasons. I can see either two things hapenning tomorrow a demoralising 50+ loss or a win by less than 2 goals that will have us gasping. What that will mean in round 12 when the projected time comes that Terry and the Marshmallow Man are shown the door I don't know.
I would love to see Sheed's at the club but not as coach. Recruiting or some back office powerbroker ala Graeme Richardson in the Labor party of the 80's and 90's would be perfect. Coach needs to be young never coached before but has excellent credentialls and comes from a winning culture having played in flags and having been an assistant in flags. Hardwick with his hardness even O'Donnell or McKenna would be ideal. Evn Chocco considering Port are 0-4 after giving away the game tonight may be a roughie. We just need a person with those attributes who is a nut and won't take poo from no player and won't be afraid to put these senior playing cancers firstly into remission and then totally out of the system to get the job done. We are all bleeding here we all have valid points about a solution and we all want to see a successful Richmond.
Unfortunantely ppl who witnessed our flags from 67-80 and were relatively young indoctrinated their kids into the Tiger culture and hence we still have a major supporter group despite our slim pickings in the last quarter of a century. However demographics and people's choices and philosophies change and when you look at kids coming through now, we need to be successful as people nowadays tend to want to associate themseves with successful enterprises rather than problematic enignmatic and catastrophic ventures as the RFC has been. May not mean now but 20 years from now when realistically many of us may not be here (touch wood) because of age may not have successfully got our kids to support the side and hence due to our lack of success had no younger fans willing to follow us. Perhaps continued failure will incline fans to stop going to the footy not buy memberships spend money on the club as a grudge on the club being indifferent towards the common Richmond supporter and the failure they have endured.This leaves us with a loss of our massive supporter base and will leave us open to mergers relocation or extinction altogether. Time frame may not be 20 years may be less so whatever they do they better do it right and do it fast, as with W Syd and Gold Coast coming in it will only get harder as they will be benefitted from the AFL in terms of stadia ,training facilities, cash, uncontracted players, priority picks, drafts, fixturing whatever. We need to do it now. Please Tigers Please. :pray
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LOL Mike regurgitating what was said on 3aw a week or so ago. Is there a single original thought in any of his articles. He compares us with Collingwood because that's all what Tony Shaw told him on radio. What's that old Dire Straits song :whistle.
problem is MT he is 100% right whether it came out of his mouth or shaw's or anyone else for that matter.
im sure he decided like others that we are going nowhere after last weeks pathetic performance
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LOL Mike regurgitating what was said on 3aw a week or so ago. Is there a single original thought in any of his articles. He compares us with Collingwood because that's all what Tony Shaw told him on radio. What's that old Dire Straits song :whistle.
problem is MT he is 100% right whether it came out of his mouth or shaw's or anyone else for that matter.
im sure he decided like others that we are going nowhere after last weeks pathetic performance
Your right Daniel, they are right..
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There was a rumour on 3aw last night that Mike will be retiring soon and Rohan Connolly will move across from the Age to take over Mike's job as chief football writer at the Herald-Sun.
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The ideal situation was to have matty knights as coach and sheeds the director of coaching . RFC are too stupid, as all Miller and Wallace do is to protect there own backs and tell the board crap about the recruits etc
Yep, that suggestion is bristling with common sense. Sheedy - the man responsible for the decline in the Essendon game plan over recent years and Knights - the man responsible for throwing it out the window and trying something 100% different. Yeah, thats a coupling that will go places.
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Bucks says he points the finger at the players commitment as they can do it in 15-20 mins spurts but not for the entire game. It must be the culture down there. He also said the animals shouldn't run the zoo (referring to the players wanting to play 1-on-1).
This comment is much much closer to the truth as the Freo game showed. We DO have the players, we DO have the ability, we DO have the game plan, we DO have the leadership, we DO have the coaches, but we DON'T always (often) have the commitment. Part of the blame is the age, part of the blame is the culture, part of the blame is the confidence, but the answer is NOT to throw the baby out with the bathwater again and again and again. I said it pre-season and I'll repeat it again - we are a young side learning our craft, we are improving but not at a rate likely to satisfy the impatient among us, we will win some games we have no right to and lose some we never should but we WILL win many more games this year than last and will win more games next year than this.
OPINION, but bookmark this for 18 months time and replace with FACT.
:gotigers
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All three station have given us a massive bake today. Even Frawley on MMM jumped in getting stuck into Bowden for criticising him in private over Spud giving Joel a bake in front of the playing group when he was coach.
Cometti on 3aw called tomorrow's game Wallace's GF.
Tony Shaw said Lids was recruited as a gun midfielder but he can't break a tag. Just a good half-back flanker as anyone can get a kick there.
Aaahh, Frawley and Shaw. Now there's a creditable think-tank if ever there was. Arguably and collectively the most incompetent coach and assistant coach team that ever graced the field at Victoria Park, and the proof of that was in the performance of the apprentice as a tradesman when he came to Richmond. Yep, they're the opinions I place a lot of stock in. ???
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Aaahh, Frawley and Shaw. Now there's a creditable think-tank if ever there was. Arguably and collectively the most incompetent coach and assistant coach team that ever graced the field at Victoria Park, and the proof of that was in the performance of the apprentice as a tradesman when he came to Richmond. Yep, they're the opinions I place a lot of stock in. ???
:clapping :thumbsup