One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on May 27, 2008, 04:01:41 PM
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Clog and dagger
Garry Lyon
Tuesday, May 27, 2008 at 11:20am
IT is about this time of the year that clubs out of the picture or next address what one football heavyweight described to me as “list clogging”.
That is, identify players sitting on club lists with no great prospect of enhancing their team’s chances of winning a flag.
On pure statistics they may be able to justify playing from one week to the next, but the harsh reality is their time has almost come and all they are effectively doing is tempting the club to continue playing them in the hope they may continue to make the club competitive now.
Ultimately, however, it is to the detriment of the club’s future.
And quite often, a list clogger can be drawing a significant salary, compromising the team’s ability to re-sign existing talent worthy of a wage increase, making them vulnerable to offers from other teams.
Richmond has finally hit on the right formula. Graham Polak was good last year for the Tigers, but Will Thursfield, Kelvin Moore and Jack Riewoldt are far more suited to the modern game. Alex Rance is a terrific pick-up who is also earmarked for a key post.
Greg Tivendale has been list clogging. His demotion to the VFL has allowed the Tigers to introduce the likes of Matthew White and Shane Edwards into the side and they haven’t looked back.
Interestingly, Joel Bowden appears to have been given one last chance to retain his place at Richmond. I had him pencilled in as a clogger. He may yet prove me wrong.
WHO’S CLOGGING YOUR TEAM’S LIST?
RICHMOND
Greg Tivendale
Graham Polak
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/afl/thestars/index.php/heraldsun/comments/clog_and_dagger
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I wouldn't say Polak is clogging it.
There was no need for him or McGuane on Saturday night because we only had to stop Lloyd and Neagle.
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I wouldn't say Polak is clogging it.
There was no need for him or McGuane on Saturday night because we only had to stop Lloyd and Neagle.
agree with you there...polak is not a clogger...tiv on the other hand is..
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true i agree with u both but i dont think polak has done much lately either
perhaps that something to do with being put in positions not suited but his kicking is average and to be honest i dont see much difference between he and Luke. in fact right now id go with Mcguane in the side.
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I would play Polak out of the square. He is tall and he marks. Polak FF.
Reiwoldt CHF.
Brown/Edwards/Cotchin/Tambling/Deledio/White running around.
Give Polak a month there and let him develop. He has been switched from postion very often. Hughes should be kicking bags in the 2's trying to take that postion.
McGaune CHB, ahead of Schultz and Rance.
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Order of 'Cloggers
1. Tiv
2. Petts
3. Bowden
4. Tuck
5. Johnson
That would be my definition of cloggers. Players who will not be around to help us challenge for a flag and are not standing out in our current team.
Just my opinion of course :)
Stripes
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;D
take Tuck & Johnson out of the side & watch us get killed in the centre
Bowden deserves to be in the side after playing a backman role that no-one else could do, he took the challenge & now needs time to resettle into the new role as his a very damaging player in the forward line cause he knows how to make space & atract the ball & deliver it in close
Tiv & petts have had a wake up call & will produce now they know
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oh just to top off the thread here on Gary Lyon
if he is such a bright prick why is Melbourne the worst list in the league & have not made changes over the years
go figure ;D
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;D
take Tuck & Johnson out of the side & watch us get killed in the centre
Couldn't have said it better myself TM.
Bowden deserves to be in the side after playing a backman role that no-one else could do, he took the challenge & now needs time to resettle into the new role as his a very damaging player in the forward line cause he knows how to make space & atract the ball & deliver it in close
Tiv & petts have had a wake up call & will produce now they know
Can't argue with any of this either. :thumbsup
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I reckon Gary is just clogging up the media with his tripe ;D
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;D
take Tuck & Johnson out of the side & watch us get killed in the centre
Bowden deserves to be in the side after playing a backman role that no-one else could do, he took the challenge & now needs time to resettle into the new role as his a very damaging player in the forward line cause he knows how to make space & atract the ball & deliver it in close
Tiv & petts have had a wake up call & will produce now they know
I agree with you Tigermonk in that we need players to block, shepherd and put their bodies on the line to create space for our younger talent. In saying that though I think Tuck hasn't the skill or pace when he does get the ball to be cemented into our long term midfield future. Similiarly Johnson is declining in form as the years progress and may well retire at the end of the year.
If you look at my list you will see I had Johnson at number 5 because I think he still has much to offer in terms of leadership and the occasional excellent game, but he is no match winner.
At the moment we have no one to replace them in the blocking/shepherding role which is why they remain but I think someone like Connors, Jackson and even Cogs may take over this role as the year progresses and definately next year.
Stripes
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I reckon Gary is just clogging up the media with his tripe ;D
Could not agree more. These guys have nothing better to do rather than write baseless and meaningless articles that serve no purpose other than take up a page in the paper that could have had a more newsworthy article.
Just for the record I agree with Stripes to a certain extent on our cloggers being blokes who more than likely won't be at the club next year or in the next 2 and take up a place on the list merely as back up.
Pettifer
Meyer
JON
Tivendale
Coughlan to a certain extent if his German mission proves to be fruitless club will have a big and painful decision to make come October.
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JON and Meyer are first round draft picks in their 3rd and 4th year.
Why would you not give them more time when there are hacks like Howatt, Tivendale, Hyde, Pettifer etc. in front of them who are older and shown nothing for years on end.
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Agree on Howat and almost 100% agree on Hyde although he has played some good footy this year and kicked some important goals. I suppose if Howat was not suspended in rd 1 and missed 3 weeks then it would be Hyde in the firing line 100% as it seems that Cam and Hyde are fighting for the same possie in the side currently.
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Agree on Howat and almost 100% agree on Hyde although he has played some good footy this year and kicked some important goals. I suppose if Howat was not suspended in rd 1 and missed 3 weeks then it would be Hyde in the firing line 100% as it seems that Cam and Hyde are fighting for the same possie in the side currently.
I would have agreed last year but this year Hyde has re-invented himself as a tagger and as a result has much more value to our list than he did before. Barring a mishap or major form drop-off I reckon he is pretty safe and not a list clogger.
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Agree on Howat and almost 100% agree on Hyde although he has played some good footy this year and kicked some important goals. I suppose if Howat was not suspended in rd 1 and missed 3 weeks then it would be Hyde in the firing line 100% as it seems that Cam and Hyde are fighting for the same possie in the side currently.
I would have agreed last year but this year Hyde has re-invented himself as a tagger and as a result has much more value to our list than he did before. Barring a mishap or major form drop-off I reckon he is pretty safe and not a list clogger.
Yes - but is he better than Polo, Raines, Jackson etc. in that role.
I think not.
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Agree on Howat and almost 100% agree on Hyde although he has played some good footy this year and kicked some important goals. I suppose if Howat was not suspended in rd 1 and missed 3 weeks then it would be Hyde in the firing line 100% as it seems that Cam and Hyde are fighting for the same possie in the side currently.
I would have agreed last year but this year Hyde has re-invented himself as a tagger and as a result has much more value to our list than he did before. Barring a mishap or major form drop-off I reckon he is pretty safe and not a list clogger.
Yes - but is he better than Polo, Raines, Jackson etc. in that role.
I think not.
Maybe, maybe not, but Raines isn't a tagger and Polo and Jackson haven't been able to force their way back in. I'm not convinced that tagging is where Polo's long term future lies and it was barely a season ago that Jackson was considered fair game for delisting by many. He has since shown some capacity to tag well but I don't think by any means yet that he is a certainty to succeed long term. At the moment I reckon Hyde is ahead of them, isn't in the pension age bracket, and has some value on our list. But a week's a long time in footy as we all know.
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Agree on Howat and almost 100% agree on Hyde although he has played some good footy this year and kicked some important goals. I suppose if Howat was not suspended in rd 1 and missed 3 weeks then it would be Hyde in the firing line 100% as it seems that Cam and Hyde are fighting for the same possie in the side currently.
I would have agreed last year but this year Hyde has re-invented himself as a tagger and as a result has much more value to our list than he did before. Barring a mishap or major form drop-off I reckon he is pretty safe and not a list clogger.
Yes - but is he better than Polo, Raines, Jackson etc. in that role.
I think not.
Maybe, maybe not, but Raines isn't a tagger and Polo and Jackson haven't been able to force their way back in. I'm not convinced that tagging is where Polo's long term future lies and it was barely a season ago that Jackson was considered fair game for delisting by many. He has since shown some capacity to tag well but I don't think by any means yet that he is a certainty to succeed long term. At the moment I reckon Hyde is ahead of them, isn't in the pension age bracket, and has some value on our list. But a week's a long time in footy as we all know.
Where is Raines postion in the side? Backline seems almost full for smalls with Newman, McMahon & King in those spots. Raines can't kick well - can't carry players that can't kick in backline.
I think Wallace will want to ge Raines back into side, one of the fe players on the list with 50+ games, and still young. Might have to learn to tag.
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;D
take Tuck & Johnson out of the side & watch us get killed in the centre
Bowden deserves to be in the side after playing a backman role that no-one else could do, he took the challenge & now needs time to resettle into the new role as his a very damaging player in the forward line cause he knows how to make space & atract the ball & deliver it in close
Tiv & petts have had a wake up call & will produce now they know
I agree with you Tigermonk in that we need players to block, shepherd and put their bodies on the line to create space for our younger talent. In saying that though I think Tuck hasn't the skill or pace when he does get the ball to be cemented into our long term midfield future. Similiarly Johnson is declining in form as the years progress and may well retire at the end of the year.
If you look at my list you will see I had Johnson at number 5 because I think he still has much to offer in terms of leadership and the occasional excellent game, but he is no match winner.
At the moment we have no one to replace them in the blocking/shepherding role which is why they remain but I think someone like Connors, Jackson and even Cogs may take over this role as the year progresses and definately next year.
Stripes
Jackson would be the only person l think who could take over Johnson role
His got the strength which is the key & just has to learn to read the game & how to block with his strength
his also very quick in the first few important steps in the centre which is required for blocking
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l think the club is on the right track re-inventing players
players are being left at Coburg to learn how to compete for 4 quarters of solid football
Those who show above level every week will be the players who get promoted in the future while those who struggle will find out which way thier careers are heading
l'm sure the players have been told already where thier futures are at the club
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Why should we listen to a bloke like Lyon he's just the same as that Sheenan and that idiot Walls. All put out mindless dribble most of the time just so they can keep their names alive. And what make Lyon worse is that he's a Eddie PUPPET. What Eddie says goes.
Whats clogging up Lyon's mind is Eddie. This should be the title.
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;D
take Tuck & Johnson out of the side & watch us get killed in the centre
Bowden deserves to be in the side after playing a backman role that no-one else could do, he took the challenge & now needs time to resettle into the new role as his a very damaging player in the forward line cause he knows how to make space & atract the ball & deliver it in close
Tiv & petts have had a wake up call & will produce now they know
I agree with you Tigermonk in that we need players to block, shepherd and put their bodies on the line to create space for our younger talent. In saying that though I think Tuck hasn't the skill or pace when he does get the ball to be cemented into our long term midfield future. Similiarly Johnson is declining in form as the years progress and may well retire at the end of the year.
If you look at my list you will see I had Johnson at number 5 because I think he still has much to offer in terms of leadership and the occasional excellent game, but he is no match winner.
At the moment we have no one to replace them in the blocking/shepherding role which is why they remain but I think someone like Connors, Jackson and even Cogs may take over this role as the year progresses and definately next year.
Stripes
Jackson would be the only person l think who could take over Johnson role
His got the strength which is the key & just has to learn to read the game & how to block with his strength
his also very quick in the first few important steps in the centre which is required for blocking
I can't see Jackson being top 10 in the league for touches like Johnson is currently and proven in past.
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;D
take Tuck & Johnson out of the side & watch us get killed in the centre
Bowden deserves to be in the side after playing a backman role that no-one else could do, he took the challenge & now needs time to resettle into the new role as his a very damaging player in the forward line cause he knows how to make space & atract the ball & deliver it in close
Tiv & petts have had a wake up call & will produce now they know
I agree with you Tigermonk in that we need players to block, shepherd and put their bodies on the line to create space for our younger talent. In saying that though I think Tuck hasn't the skill or pace when he does get the ball to be cemented into our long term midfield future. Similiarly Johnson is declining in form as the years progress and may well retire at the end of the year.
If you look at my list you will see I had Johnson at number 5 because I think he still has much to offer in terms of leadership and the occasional excellent game, but he is no match winner.
At the moment we have no one to replace them in the blocking/shepherding role which is why they remain but I think someone like Connors, Jackson and even Cogs may take over this role as the year progresses and definately next year.
Stripes
Jackson would be the only person l think who could take over Johnson role
His got the strength which is the key & just has to learn to read the game & how to block with his strength
his also very quick in the first few important steps in the centre which is required for blocking
I can't see Jackson being top 10 in the league for touches like Johnson is currently and proven in past.
Jackson has been used as a tagger most games he meant to stop his opponant getting the ball & block them out of the contest in the centre
you think Jackson cant do the job ;D oh yeah, but yet think Cogs can :lol :lol :lol
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I can think of a few others in the clogging category. Fringe players who have been on our list for 8 years it's time to go.
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I can think of a few others in the clogging category. Fringe players who have been on our list for 8 years it's time to go.
well name them MT. put up those names ur referring to.
players are getting games for god knows what reason.
they get 20 useless touches and still get a game.
time to start dumping players from our list who cant play tough football.
malthouse has a bunch of players who are lets say not the best quality but they play for him.
understand?? they play for him. he turns average footballers into good ones.
leon davis example 1)
pathetic pettifer is 5% of the footballer he has become and how he gets a game is beyond me it really is.
we have players who play for their champion data stats and not their jumper. fact!!
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haha & people say our drafts are better than Collingwood well HELLO
Thomas, Pendlebury, & others are kicking ass becoming stars
Roughhead, Franklin, Lewis, are the items
ours are becoming chip kickers & leather burnt footballers who freeze up going forward :rollin
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haha & people say our drafts are better than Collingwood well HELLO
Sorry to harp on it, this is not a dig at McMahon, he doesn't make the trades.
I find it staggering that we have a prized top twenty pick, Miller or Wallace or whoever is dying to offload it for something that will supposedly help our team.
A ruckman, we could do with another one of them, Cameron wood went for pick 14, Ben Hudson went for pick 30 and 38...
A key position player, we could always do with one of them if one was available.
No, what Richmond needs is a skinny flanker who played half the season in the VFL, a guy that we have plenty of his type already, this guy will help lead us to finals glory. Port Adelaide are interested, so let's get a little carried away and stitch up the deal before they get him.
So what happens today, we get smashed in the ruck, and with Richo playing wing we have a 19 year old KPP trying his best against some of the best defensive players in the league.
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I can think of a few others in the clogging category. Fringe players who have been on our list for 8 years it's time to go.
well name them MT. put up those names ur referring to.
I did. Who was drafted 8 years ago (2000) and are still bouncing b/w AFL and VFL - Hyde and Petts.
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haha & people say our drafts are better than Collingwood well HELLO
Thomas, Pendlebury, & others are kicking ass becoming stars
Roughhead, Franklin, Lewis, are the items
ours are becoming chip kickers & leather burnt footballers who freeze up going forward :rollin
Seniors players TM. If you have a decent core of senior players who make up the majority of your side then the youngsters are freed up. Foley and Lids are our two best mids (a 22 and 21 year old) with not much help around them when the likes of Tuck and Hyde are starting 3 mids :help. Geez I wonder why the opposition coaches tag Axel or Lids. Hodge and Mitchell are the Hawks two best mids and they also have Bateman, Sewell, Crawford, Osbourne and Ladson before you even get to Lewis. Take a few out as happened on the weekend and they finally lose. Same at the Pies - Burns, O'Bree, Davis, Swan, both Shaws, Lockyer, Johnson cop the tags before Pendlebury and Thomas.
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I can think of a few others in the clogging category. Fringe players who have been on our list for 8 years it's time to go.
well name them MT. put up those names ur referring to.
I did. Who was drafted 8 years ago (2000) and are still bouncing b/w AFL and VFL - Hyde and Petts.
Bowden. Howatt is of the same age group.
Tuck, McMahon, King and co. have not been playing VFL but have been pretty average at times.
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you have not added Clogs to your clogging list l'm surprised
his the biggest clogger we got
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An injured star isn't a true clogger (dud) though IMO. Alastair Lynch was "injured" for 5 years on Brisbane's list. They were glad in the long run they stuck with him but that was only because he had a 10-year contract lol.
I can think of a few others in the clogging category. Fringe players who have been on our list for 8 years it's time to go.
well name them MT. put up those names ur referring to.
I did. Who was drafted 8 years ago (2000) and are still bouncing b/w AFL and VFL - Hyde and Petts.
Bowden. Howatt is of the same age group.
Tuck, McMahon, King and co. have not been playing VFL but have been pretty average at times.
Bowden is getting on and slowing down. Yep time is nearly up but I wouldn't call him a clogger. A true clogger never gets past being a fringe player. Cam is a rookie list clogger :-\.
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Cam is a rookie list clogger :-\.
lol
says alot about our club.
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thats maybe cause they have trouble picking the recruits down at Tigerland
surely Miller & Co could do alot better
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IMO it's pretty easy to work out.
Players who are oldest and still not cutting the mustard should go. Youngest players with the abilty to one day (hopfully) be better than the current mid-aged players, to stay for at least another season.
Really, we must look at where we are as a football club. Sposed to b 3.5 years into the rebuild with new coach and yet still getting flogged by 80 points with Pettifer, Hyde, Bowden in the side and Tiv as emg. We need another year of decent at least two kids and a final cull.
26+
Tivendale, Pettifer, Hyde
Bowden and Johnsons postion va injury/form are questionable.
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:shh you cant chuck players of Bowdens ability out his too good & still producing
put that lovechild of your out in Coughlan who has given nothing for money in years
his on tv in a few moments you better run & watch his going the pace of Johnson so you wont miss him :lol
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I don't have a problem with Bents suggestion. We're talking about small to mid-size players so you know what they're going to produce by the time they are in their mid 20s. Joel no longer has the pace he use to so his defensive pressure has dropped away. He'll probably survive another year ahead of the others Bents has mentioned in his 26+ bracket but father time is ticking.