One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on June 21, 2008, 06:47:53 PM
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Happy 30th birthday today. Please don't celebrate the win like Sugar ;D.
39 disposals - at 100% efficency, 32 kicks, 7 hbs and 22 marks including the game saving one at the end where he flew in front of a leading Motlop.
Congrats to Joel :clapping.
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Happy 30th birthday today. Please don't celebrate the win like Sugar ;D.
39 disposals - at 100% efficency, 32 kicks, 7 hbs and 22 marks including the game saving one at the end where he flew in front of a leading Motlop.
Congrats to Joel :clapping.
:birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday
Our mate Joel best wishes for your birthday
as you know your 11 years younger than me & my favorite player even that you know who l support
hugs & kisses from us & the kids :cheers
the above was wrote by me not TM ;D :cheers
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It's good that Joel is playing well - but what is his role going to be in the future?
Do we continue to play him in the back 6?
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It's good that Joel is playing well - but what is his role going to be in the future?
Do we continue to play him in the back 6?
Well Terry was trying to groom him as a forward when he returned from exile yet especially in the last two weeks he has played exclusively in the last line of defence. I guess depends on the opposition and the match ups. However judging by todays match winning effort he may stay in defence for next week at least.
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:birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday
just call him the professional utility ;D can play anywhere
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should retire at the end of the season and leave on a good note
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It's good that Joel is playing well - but what is his role going to be in the future?
Do we continue to play him in the back 6?
Well Terry was trying to groom him as a forward when he returned from exile yet especially in the last two weeks he has played exclusively in the last line of defence. I guess depends on the opposition and the match ups. However judging by todays match winning effort he may stay in defence for next week at least.
My guess is Bowden is helping to cover for Thursty's absence. Moore takes Thursty's role, McGuane takes Moore's role and Joel takes McGaune's role, if that makes sense. Polak took the old gorilla in Tredrea.
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should retire at the end of the season and leave on a good note
His got a at least 4 season in front of him ;D
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Polak took the old gorilla in Tredrea.
& Polak killed the Gorilla Tredrea, Now why aint the media attacking that Gorilla his really no value for the paying spectators ;D
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Yes Joel did have a very good game but did he do anything different than what he has done over the past umpteen year?
He has always been brilliant drifting off his direct opponent and gaining uncontested possessions. Of the 39 possessions he gathered I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) only 5 of them were contested. He did not lay one tackle.
As a backman, this is amazing. It tells me he plays very a unaccountable and attacking style of football and rarely plays on a direct opponent. Joel doesn't run which is fine if the other defenders are running off the backline for him to pass off to but if he has to kick to a stationary target like I witnessed tim and time again on the weekend then this is a problem. It is particularly a problem if the opposition likes to flood or zone because it gives them time to set up.
It is a luxury to have this style of player in the team.
Joel is great for the SuperCoach team, great for allowing the team to regroup, hold it up and settle but he slows us down out of defense and he just doesn't defend his direct opponent.
I'm sorry to all of you who love the guy but I just don't think we can afford to have a player who gathers uncontested possessions at whim but becomes a liability against good opposition.
Stripes
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........and he just doesn't defend his direct opponent.
Stripes
How did his direct opponent go?
ps. I think you'll find he had to kick to stationary targets because the opposition had already flooded before he even got the ball. It wasn't him kicking backwards from the wing.
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........and he just doesn't defend his direct opponent.
Stripes
How did his direct opponent go?
ps. I think you'll find he had to kick to stationary targets because the opposition had already flooded before he even got the ball. It wasn't him kicking backwards from the wing.
He either didn't have an opponent, or he was playing on Ebert, who kicked 5 goals
Stripes, I agree with you 100%, the game against the Power simply proved that he's a one trick pony. He can't play in the midfield or up forward where he has to work hard for every touch, he can only pick up cheap stats by running loose down back. I will be very interested to see the coaches votes on footy classified to see how highly his game was rated by the coaches.
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he had a good birthday. would be great if he could have 39 possession (32 kicks!) and 23 marks every match. :)
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should retire at the end of the season and leave on a good note
His got a at least 4 season in front of him ;D
rubbish he has ;D
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He either didn't have an opponent, or he was playing on Ebert, who kicked 5 goals
Stripes, I agree with you 100%, the game against the Power simply proved that he's a one trick pony. He can't play in the midfield or up forward where he has to work hard for every touch, he can only pick up cheap stats by running loose down back. I will be very interested to see the coaches votes on footy classified to see how highly his game was rated by the coaches.
Joel is really going to be disappointed to hear that, because he, like me, thought that Ebert only kicked two goals.
Thank God he zoned off his player for a cheap stat when he took that mark in the last minute - that was the game, Motlopp was going to mark it easily. I would love to have somebody else like him getting so called cheap shots all day. He will get 10 votes from the coaches.
Joel should never play at Coburg again, and imho he should never have been played there at all. He is certainly in our best half dozen players and at Coburg looks like the big kid in the schoolyard - a pointless exercise.
ps - he is also a selfless, humble clubman
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He either didn't have an opponent, or he was playing on Ebert, who kicked 5 goals
I will be very interested to see the coaches votes on footy classified to see how highly his game was rated by the coaches.
Me too. :) Can't wait. 10 votes, I'd be expecting.
Bowden spent a bit of time on Ebert but took the big men when they went forward and Wallace has said he had a free licence.
Moore started on Ebert. McMahon and McGuane were also on him at times. Ebert's 2 goals were kicked on Moore and McMahon.
Blanketed Yze last week when moved onto him, this week racked up possessions and left his man when required to help out teammates, ...
Better stop there. How many tricks is a one trick pony supposed to have? :whistle
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Bowden had a fantastic game against Port and a good game verus Melbourne but he was placed in the backline out of necessity rather than design. Joel has played this floating backman role for years and always seemed to be one of our best when looking at the possession count and disposal effectiveness. But what I am trying to say is that we don't need this type of player.
He gives us no run out of defense plain and simple. We are slow when the ball is in his hands. He has a high effectiveness because he only kicks it to a player on their own. He doesn't tackle because he is always looking for the easy mark, handball or kick. I say he is unaccountable because you rarely see him shadowing a player like Thursty, McGuane or Moore do. He is always fanning off his direct opponent to 'help'.
Where he comes unstuck is when other teams exploit this style. He has been good the last two weeks because opposition clubs have not been expecting him to play this role and so have not drilled their players to look for his direct opponent. Opposition teams that have a more even spread of forwards and who look for the best option rather than the same few big forwards have always destroyed us through Joels 'opposition'.
We have had trouble with small to mid-sized forwards for years because we have no one with the pace or defensive skills to shadow them. Bowden is only mid-sized but is too slow to worry any opponent.
Joel will always look good just as Polak and P.Bowden have in the past when they are playing the unaccountable floating backman role. What we need for the future though is someone like Kingy who can been accountable but also provide run out of defence.
When Bowden can learn to defend as a defender, tackle and run out of the their defence to kick the ball into our F50 then I will change my mind on him, but while he continues to kick sideways until the opposition has manned up or formed their zone and get the easy possessions - I think his better days are in the past!
Stripes
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He has been good the last two weeks because opposition clubs have not been expecting him to play this role and so have not drilled their players to look for his direct opponent.
He didn't play that role last week. He was close-checking on Yze. Stats down, accountability up.
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He has been good the last two weeks because opposition clubs have not been expecting him to play this role and so have not drilled their players to look for his direct opponent.
He didn't play that role last week. He was close-checking on Yze. Stats down, accountability up.
Is that so? Well then I apologise for that oversight. I can't remember him providing any run last week either though. Infact I can remember seeing him demand the players to slow down the play and try and spot up the options. This is great for highly skilled teams but, at the moment. we aren't one of them. Joel's a good kick and can pinpoint players half the time but most of our young players can't. Even in saying this Joel almost always chooses to kick to an unmanned player rather than a leading target. He just makes us slow!
In terms of his general style of play, I just don't think he has the assets to cut it any longer. Playing him in the role he did last week against the better teams would have seen us cut to ribbons. We have pace and we should continue to learn to use it. Joel is a leader and he doesn't encourage or support players to take risks to break the lines and get it quickly into our forward half.
On the weekend I heard an interview with him directly after the game asking if there was direction from the coaching box to wax the game down at the 15 minute mark. His reply was 'Not directly, the players decided that at the time' - which players? Well it is pretty obvious to me who leads the pace of play.
Joel may have saved us the game with that last mark but the game wouldn't have needed saving if he didn't slow the game down and stop our attack in the first place!
Stripes
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I'll say it again - have another look. It wasn't Bowden kicking the ball backwards from the wing. It was someone in a position to call the tempo ahead of him.
ps. He pinpoints players closer to all the time than half the time.
I reckon he can't win. We're the turnover kings but he cops it for hitting targets. We're notorious for panicking down back but he cops it for trying to keep calm. He gets 39 possessions @ 100% efficiency and they're cheap stats. He constantly puts his body at risk by running with the flight of the ball yet is called soft because he gets uncontested possessions. He blankets Yze and he hasn't provided run.
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I'll say it again - have another look. It wasn't Bowden kicking the ball backwards from the wing. It was someone in a position to call the tempo ahead of him.
ps. He pinpoints players closer to all the time than half the time.
I reckon he can't win. We're the turnover kings but he cops it for hitting targets. We're notorious for panicking down back but he cops it for trying to keep calm. He gets 39 possessions @ 100% efficiency and they're cheap stats. He constantly puts his body at risk by running with the flight of the ball yet is called soft because he gets uncontested possessions. He blankets Yze and he hasn't provided run.
Don't get upset Fishy! I understand what you are trying to say and I appreciate that he is far fraom a bad player. In fact he has been one of our shining lights for years.
What I am trying to say (without much success obviously) is that he is not the sort of player we need in our backline any longer.
Answer me this - why was he dropped from the team in the first place?
Now correct me if I am wrong but I'm am sure it was because he was too unaccountable and placed little to no pressure on the opposition. Collingwood exploited his game style and continuely spotted up his opponent for the day -Medhurst - because they know Bowden would have drifted off him. Result - Medhurst kills us, Joel lays no tackles and he gets dropped. He still had more than enough possessions during that game but he was sent back to Coburg because we can no longer have backmen in the team who are not directly accountable to their opponents and do not provide run and look to get the ball moving at all costs.
Bowden was moved back to Coburg to try and find a way to utilize his assets which are his kicking and game smarts but where-ever you play on the ground in todays game you need pace and need defensive skills. Morton and Riewoldt are such good finds because they work both ways - leading, crumbing, marking and then they chase down the opposition backmen to try and keep it in our F50 and stop their run out of defense.
Joel will always resort to holding up the ball and then looking for the safe option by foot. I have never seen him take off and run through the lines to get it down the corridor to pinpoint a leading forward before the opposition can organise themselves. He will always make hard work of it for us by giving them time to zone/flood or man up.
We need backmen lie Kingy, Raines and Rance who will take on the opposition and allow us a chance to get it into our forwardline while their is still space for them to lead into.
No matter how great he is by foot he is too attacking in defense and too defensive in attack!
The days of collecting uncontested possessions are over and so I fear is Joel's long term future.
Stripes
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Not getting upset, Stripes. :)
I can respect your opinion. I'm only arguing because I don't think some of the points you are using to back up that opinion are fair or factual.
Joel was dropped for lack of tackling. So we were told.
As for the days of collecting uncontested possessions being over, doesn't look like it if what Wallace said about giving Joel a free licence is true. Lots of other careers at all clubs would also be in jeopardy.
Joel's long term future. Who knows? Wouldn't be surprised if he hangs up the boots at the end of the season.
Still think he's easily in our best 22 (best 12) atm. Accountable or not.
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What points do you feel are not fair?
I think you are right about the careers of may players being over. Coaches will now tag a players they believe generates run for a team regardless of where they play just as we did with M. Morton against P.Bogourne(sp?) and is given to H. Shaw every week lately.
If you have a free player in the backline then it is only because the opposition believes they can utilize their free player better elsewhere on the ground.
It will be interesting to see if TW gives Joel free rein when Thursty and Kingy return. I would suggest not. I think he was just filling a need and that is the only way Joel knows how to play in the defensive fifty.
You eluded that Joel may have been dropped for another reason other than his lack of tackling and defensive pressure.....what do you believe was the reason?
Stripes
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You eluded that Joel may have been dropped for another reason other than his lack of tackling and defensive pressure.....what do you believe was the reason?
Stripes
No, wasn't alluding to anything. Was just surprised he was dropped for the reason given.
Petts I could understand not getting back - same reason given for him but his form warranted his omission.
Others also had no tackles, eg Richo. I wouldn't expect him to be dropped - just made it a strange reason. If the reason given was for accountability I'd think that was a fair reason.
Points I feel are not fair:
"...he just doesn't defend his direct opponent." Has since coming back in rnd8 - except this week (free licence).
"...becomes a liability against good opposition." Is not often beaten, no matter what opposition.
"He gives us no run out of defense plain and simple." He hits players on their own who are the runners.
"I have never seen him take off and run through the lines to get it down the corridor to pinpoint a leading forward before the opposition can organise themselves." I know that's an opinion rather than being stated as a fact but "never" is a word of finality. He's done it heaps of times.
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should retire at the end of the season and leave on a good note
His got a at least 4 season in front of him ;D
rubbish he has ;D
yep his 30 years old & could have at least 4 years left in him be it at our club or another
what dont you think he could be another Robert Harvey ?? it seems players are playing better when they hit thier 30s because thier knowledge of the game can bring others into the game which makes it easier for them.
dont you worry Bowden is a fine player & he proved it on the weekend by saving our asses once again
Stop bagging the man he continue to prove he can still get 3 Brownlow votes :clapping gee most players would love to get just 1 vote let alone get invited to the brownlow to hope they get 3 votes all year
Thank Tuck also for a beautiful game :thumbsup l would had him equal best on ground his the one that gets in & gets hit hard every week
These are all players you wanted sacked but the youngsters were a bit quite dont you think
only cause we lost McGuane that Port were able to peg the lead back so easy in the last quarter to save some face, otherwise it would have been a blowout margin & Chocco Williams would have been sacked this week.
so be nice & kiss Joel bum he deserves it from you ;D
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You eluded that Joel may have been dropped for another reason other than his lack of tackling and defensive pressure.....what do you believe was the reason?
Stripes
his tongue ;D
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Utility works for Joel Bowden
Jon Ralph | June 24, 2008
RICHMOND match-winner Joel Bowden says he does not care what position he plays, as long as it contributes towards the Tigers' recent resurgence.
Bowden returned to his free-wheeling defensive days with an incredible 39 possessions and 23 marks in the win against Port Adelaide after being given free licence by coach Terry Wallace.
The veteran started the year in defence before a stint for Coburg in the VFL. Since his return he has been used as a forward and close-checking defender.
He played the sweeper's role to perfection on Saturday, cutting off attacking thrusts with cool nerves, including intercepting the last-ditch pass to Port Adelaide forward Daniel Motlop.
Every one of his possessions was effective - the highest number of statistics with a 100 per cent effective rate recorded by Champion Data.
Some critics dared to criticise the fact he did not record a tackle, but Bowden was instructed to play the offensive role from half back.
Bowden has been reluctant to detail his struggles since his demotion to Coburg, and has told Richmond he wants to play several games before any media appearances.
But he gave his first interview since being demoted to Coburg on SEN radio minutes after his starring role.
He said he was content to play the sweeping role in defence if it helped Richmond.
"I am happy to play wherever the coach puts me, and if I can contribute to the team getting a win, then I am happy," he said.
"I have been here a long time at Richmond and played a number of positions and I have developed into a bit of a utility and I will do whatever is required."
Bowden, 30 on game day, deflected attention on the match-saving mark in front of Motlop.
"It was lucky I was able to come across and help out Kelvin Moore, and Kelvin held him out quite well, so it gave me an easier run in front of the pack," Bowden said.
"The team played really well, a lot of guys contributed and if you are going to make it about one contest, that's probably not the way to go."
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23911789-19742,00.html
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In-form Bowden an example to all
richmondfc.com.au
By Mic Cullen
Wed 25 June, 2008
NOT ONLY is he back, he's such a good example that Terry Wallace will keep preaching about him to the faithful.
Joel Bowden spent a month in the VFL, but since returning to the big time, he's been super for the Tigers, playing anywhere and everywhere as he rejuvenates his career.
Bowden has played 244 AFL matches, initially as a midfielder but in recent years as a defender, before coach Terry Wallace sent him to Coburg to rediscover his all-round game.
But Wallace will be speaking more about life issues than merely football ones.
"I'm absolutely extraordinarily pleased, and I'm about an hour away from giving a sermon to our other players about not allowing things that you can't control to impact the way you handle yourself," Wallace said on Monday.
"So many players, whether it's in-game or from selection decisions, get emotionally involved in things that they can't really have any impact on whatsoever.
"That therefore impacts either their next action in a game, or it impacts their ability to get back into the senior lineup, and I thought that's the thing that Joel's handled better than anything else.
"He's a level person and he's handled himself with a level nature, which has allowed him to just work through a situation."
Wallace said the way Bowden worked through his demotion was something that he would use as a learning experience for the younger players.
"He got a clear understanding of what the expectation from the match committee was, worked on that for three or four weeks at the next level down, come back in, play disciplined roles for two or three weeks – purely and simply what the match committee wanted, and then to be able to have a breakout game.
"You can't do that if you're up and down in the emotional aspects of it, so I think it's a fantastic learning thing for our kids.
"And, as I said, we're about an hour-and-a-half off having that lesson."
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/tabid/6301/Default.aspx?newsid=62149