One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on October 22, 2008, 04:52:57 AM

Title: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: one-eyed on October 22, 2008, 04:52:57 AM
Of the list of 42 Tigers Wallace inherited, 13 have survived through to his 5th and final year:

J.Bowden, Brown, Coughlan, Foley#, Jackson, Johnson, Moore#, Newman, Pettifer, Raines, Richo, Schulz, Tuck

# - rookie in 2004


Just for the record here's the 29 that have gone from 2004:

Archibald, Blumfield, Campbell, Chaffey, Dragicevic#, Fiora, Fleming, Fletcher,
Gaspar, Gilmour, Hall, Hartigan, Hilton, Houlihan, Hyde, A.Kellaway, D.Kellaway,
Krakouer, Marsh, Morrison, Nicholls, Ottens, Roach, Rodan, Rogers, Stafford,
Tivendale, Weller, Zantuck


I'll also list the Wallace recruits in the past 4 years that have departed (and what they cost us to draft):

Meyer     pick 12
Casserly  pick 40
Limbach   pick 53
P.Bowden  pick 55
Peterson    pick 60
M.Graham  pick 65
Knobel    psd 1
Kingsley  psd 8 
Clingan#
Howat#
Humm#
Silvester#
Cartledge#?
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: bushranger on October 22, 2008, 09:29:30 AM
This just shows me that a list has to change all the time. Nothing more or less.
Some we agree on and some we don't.
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: Stripes on October 22, 2008, 09:53:07 AM
Out of all the players that are gone only Ottens I would like back. All the rest were poor to average at best. Even Campbell was a good honest toiler who made the most of his ability (makes for a good coach though).

Just shows what poor recruiting and what a poor team we have been for such a long time.

Also good to see out of the players that have been drafted over then last 5 or so years the only high pick which underperformed was Meyer, and this was more due to injury than poor form. Though JON could fill this category next year if he doesn't break into the team in 2009.

Very positive

Stripes
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: tigersalive on October 22, 2008, 10:22:57 AM
Out of all the players that are gone only Ottens I would like back. All the rest were poor to average at best. Even Campbell was a good honest toiler who made the most of his ability (makes for a good coach though).

Just shows what poor recruiting and what a poor team we have been for such a long time.

Also good to see out of the players that have been drafted over then last 5 or so years the only high pick which underperformed was Meyer, and this was more due to injury than poor form. Though JON could fill this category next year if he doesn't break into the team in 2009.

Very positive

Stripes

I'd have Rogers back.  But Rogers was my favourite player as a young grasshopper so maybe I was blinded.
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: Bene Boy on October 22, 2008, 11:15:50 AM
Out of all the players that are gone only Ottens I would like back. All the rest were poor to average at best. Even Campbell was a good honest toiler who made the most of his ability (makes for a good coach though).

Just shows what poor recruiting and what a poor team we have been for such a long time.

Also good to see out of the players that have been drafted over then last 5 or so years the only high pick which underperformed was Meyer, and this was more due to injury than poor form. Though JON could fill this category next year if he doesn't break into the team in 2009.

Very positive

Stripes
injury free Gas was a good player iirc  made AA TEAM
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: Chuck17 on October 22, 2008, 01:13:54 PM
injury free Gas was a good player iirc  made AA TEAM

Yeh I would rather have Gaspar back as he was yellow and black, Ottens in my book is a grubby lump.

The funny thing is though we dont need Gas with Moore, Thursfield and McGuane but we do need a quality ruckman.

Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: Beren on October 22, 2008, 01:59:12 PM
injury free Gas was a good player iirc  made AA TEAM

Agree, but very unfashionable to say so. ;)
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: mightytiges on October 22, 2008, 10:50:19 PM
The game has changed greatly even in the past 18 months that even Gas in his prime wouldn't last long now with his poor footskills in the backline. He was top shutdown stuff but you need to be able to rebound and set up attacks by foot nowdays which wasn't Gas' forte.

Imagine too Duncan trying to kick precisely through a zone lol  :help.

Most of those names cut are frightening btw. Just 3 out of 29 were wanted by another AFL club and even then Fiora spends most of the time playing VFL at Casey.

Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: Chuck17 on October 23, 2008, 08:58:30 AM
Most of those names cut are frightening btw. Just 3 out of 29 were wanted by another AFL club and even then Fiora spends most of the time playing VFL at Casey.


You got that right MT, our list was shocking.
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: Smokey on October 23, 2008, 09:19:27 AM
Most of those names cut are frightening btw. Just 3 out of 29 were wanted by another AFL club and even then Fiora spends most of the time playing VFL at Casey.


You got that right MT, our list was shocking.

But it's very important to remember that according to some on this list and many in the media, it is all Wallace's fault that he couldn't turn this collection of footballing gems into a regular finals side - nay, a premiership side - in 4 years.  After all, Hawthorn had a comparative list for Clarkson to start with!  Shame on you Terry.   :banghead
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: Chuck17 on October 23, 2008, 09:22:14 AM
As they say Smokey you cant let the facts get in the way of a good story
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: tiga on October 23, 2008, 10:33:08 AM


I'd have Rogers back.  But Rogers was my favourite player as a young grasshopper so maybe I was blinded.

I agree Tigersalive. Muppet hands was one of my favorites too. He was a true finisher and tough as nails. Also really good in pressure situations.
He just got a bit left for pace in the end.
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: mightytiges on October 23, 2008, 06:49:45 PM


I'd have Rogers back.  But Rogers was my favourite player as a young grasshopper so maybe I was blinded.

I agree Tigersalive. Muppet hands was one of my favorites too. He was a true finisher and tough as nails. Also really good in pressure situations.
He just got a bit left for pace in the end.
Rogers was good up to 2000-1 but towards the end he dished out too many handgrenade handballs that went nowhere.
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: one-eyed on November 01, 2008, 03:51:59 AM
Quote
Of the list of 42 Tigers Wallace inherited, 13 have survived through to his 5th and final year:

J.Bowden, Brown, Coughlan, Foley#, Jackson, Johnson, Moore#, Newman, Pettifer, Raines, Richo, Schulz, Tuck

Wallace recruits in the past 4 years that have departed (and what they cost us to draft):

Meyer     pick 12
Casserly  pick 40
Limbach   pick 53
P.Bowden  pick 55
Peterson    pick 60
M.Graham  pick 65
Gourdis   psd 1
Knobel    psd 1
Kingsley  psd 8 
Cartledge#
Clingan#
Collard#
Howat#
Humm#
Just updating the list since yesterday's delistings. Still 13 original survivors.

Apart from Whitey the PSD has been a waste of time for us.
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: tdy on November 01, 2008, 12:15:54 PM
What was wrong with Gourdis?

I thought he was going to be a ruckman project player that would come into his prime at age 24, so no games this year was par for the course. But after one year he's gone.  Did the recruiting staff stuff up that much with the pre season draft?  Or was there nothing to really choose?

Did anyone see him play at casey?  I assume he played there.
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: Chuck17 on November 01, 2008, 02:32:27 PM
What was wrong with Gourdis?

I thought he was going to be a ruckman project player that would come into his prime at age 24, so no games this year was par for the course. But after one year he's gone.  Did the recruiting staff stuff up that much with the pre season draft?  Or was there nothing to really choose?

Did anyone see him play at casey?  I assume he played there.

IMO the PSD = nothing to choose

Any decent players that possibly could go to there have already determined their club of choice and a trade has gone through. 

Disclaimer = White

Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: Con65 on November 01, 2008, 02:53:21 PM
Tyden...was never going to be a ruckman...they were grooming him to be a KPP backman.

Nothing in the pre-season draft other than Walsh see: http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2007&t=P&s=P

Didnt play at Casey - played for Coburg Reserves...
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: tdy on November 02, 2008, 10:31:23 AM
Tyden...was never going to be a ruckman...they were grooming him to be a KPP backman.

Nothing in the pre-season draft other than Walsh see: http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2007&t=P&s=P

Didnt play at Casey - played for Coburg Reserves...

Your right coburg, my bad.  That pre season draft link (nice link btw) you sent does make you wonder if we did stuff up though, we got 0 games and dropped him.
So what was wrong with him as a KPP?  again we spent a lot of time building guys like Kelvin Moore, so I assumed we would be spending time building Gourdis up too if he was too skinny etc.

One other link said he was depressed, wanted to go home to WA.

Could he play? Did anyone see him?
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: Chuck17 on November 02, 2008, 01:16:34 PM
That was Collard Tdyen who wanted to go back to WA

Gourdis couldn't barely get of Coburg reserves, I can only assume he wasn't up to AFL standard or Coburg 1st's either

Edit I thought it was Collard who was homesick, but maybe it was Gourdis or both? Can anyone clarify, Thanks
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: mightytiges on November 02, 2008, 04:58:38 PM
Gourdis kicked 7 for Coburg ressies one day and did crack it for a Coburg seniors game late in the year. His kicking was probably his main deficiency (sounds silly for someone who kicked a bag of 7). He was still learning the game and lacked control (didn't have a smooth natural kicking technique) once he had to footpass over 30m IMO. If it's true he also suffers from depression then understandably that would be tough on the kid.
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: WilliamPowell on November 02, 2008, 08:12:12 PM
One other link said he was depressed, wanted to go home to WA.

Could he play? Did anyone see him?


Just on the other "link" (and tdyen this isn't directed at you or anyone else)

I don't think it is right to speculate on whether Gourdis had a issue with depression... the comment about depression I viewed for the first time on BF on Friday arvo and as such I think it can only be deemed to a be rumour (and a rather cruel one at that if there is no fact to back it up) and as I said it was on BF (would argue nuff said) .....

back to whether he can play.... Yes I reckon he can but I think he was coming from a long way back, my view he is more of an athlete than footballer. But without question he improved greatly as the year went on. Before his delisting I would have said that he needed another year at VFL before he was ready for AFL

Gourdis kicked 7 for Coburg ressies one day and did crack it for a Coburg seniors game late in the year. His kicking was probably his main deficiency (sounds silly for someone who kicked a bag of 7). He was still learning the game and lacked control (didn't have a smooth natural kicking technique) once he had to footpass over 30m IMO. If it's true he also suffers from depression then understandably that would be tough on the kid.

Yes he kicked those 7 down at Casey and then played the following week against Bendigo :thumbsup

Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: mightytiges on November 02, 2008, 10:42:45 PM
back to whether he can play.... Yes I reckon he can but I think he was coming from a long way back, my view he is more of an athlete than footballer. But without question he improved greatly as the year went on. Before his delisting I would have said that he needed another year at VFL before he was ready for AFL
I agree WP. Perhaps a rookie spot is still a chance. With the rookie list now expanded to 6 spots he'd be an ideal rookie candidate if the club still sees him as a project player.
Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: tdy on November 03, 2008, 10:31:31 AM
back to whether he can play.... Yes I reckon he can but I think he was coming from a long way back, my view he is more of an athlete than footballer. But without question he improved greatly as the year went on. Before his delisting I would have said that he needed another year at VFL before he was ready for AFL
I agree WP. Perhaps a rookie spot is still a chance. With the rookie list now expanded to 6 spots he'd be an ideal rookie candidate if the club still sees him as a project player.
Well the question then is does he want to go back to WA?  I'm pretty sure he was from WA if my memory serves me right.  Kicking is notoriously hard to rectify and one thing Terry Wallace is demanding is kicking skill.  There has been a noticeable shift since the Danny Frawley days to a more skillful side if less bulky. 
There is little point in having a project player who cannot kick, poor kicks only get so much better. They never become great kicks.

The damning thing then is why the heck did we pick him if it is a kicking skill problem?  Kicking skill is dead obvious to see.  If that is the issue and its not a homesickness issue then it is a blot on our recruiting department.

Title: Re: 13 survivors under Wallace
Post by: mightytiges on November 03, 2008, 07:24:10 PM
back to whether he can play.... Yes I reckon he can but I think he was coming from a long way back, my view he is more of an athlete than footballer. But without question he improved greatly as the year went on. Before his delisting I would have said that he needed another year at VFL before he was ready for AFL
I agree WP. Perhaps a rookie spot is still a chance. With the rookie list now expanded to 6 spots he'd be an ideal rookie candidate if the club still sees him as a project player.
Well the question then is does he want to go back to WA?  I'm pretty sure he was from WA if my memory serves me right.  Kicking is notoriously hard to rectify and one thing Terry Wallace is demanding is kicking skill.  There has been a noticeable shift since the Danny Frawley days to a more skillful side if less bulky. 
There is little point in having a project player who cannot kick, poor kicks only get so much better. They never become great kicks.

The damning thing then is why the heck did we pick him if it is a kicking skill problem?  Kicking skill is dead obvious to see.  If that is the issue and its not a homesickness issue then it is a blot on our recruiting department.
Yep Gourdis is originally from Subiaco tyden. He was picked up due to his speed for his 193cm size - 2.83s over 20m. He obviously slipped through the National draft due to his footy rawness. I think we took him in the PSD because we wanted Collard as well and didn't believe we could get both with our first two rookie picks 1 & 17. At the end they're both gone within one year unless Gourdis is rookied.