One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: mightytiges on February 27, 2009, 05:27:34 AM
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I realise we are trialing and rotating a few newbies up forward during the preseason such as Vickery, Nahas and Hislop for instance but our forward line and how we deliver the ball inside 50 needs plenty of homework done leading up to round 1.
Apart from the obvious many set shot misses we had last night which are my pet hate in footy (absolutely pathetic and unforgiveable 7 of those gimme misses were :banghead ), our attacking mids streaming through the centre didn't seem to lower their eyes to find marking targets just inside the arc but rather targeted the pockets or just bombed it to the goalsquare. Mind you our forwards didn't help as we always seemed to lack someone "high" near the top of the arc as an alternative marking option. We also allowed the ball to go 'over the back' of the forward marking contest and with all our other forwards in front of the contest we had no crumbers at the fall of the ball and the Pies swept it out with ease and under no pressure. The forward going for the mark needs to remember if he can't mark it then at least bring the ball down and keep it in front of you where your teammates are.
The other annoying thing was despite Newy and Whitey's supergoals, our mids seemed to have an aversion to kicking long goals on the run even if they were in space. It's a simple game boys. The name of the game is to kick the ball between the two big sticks moreso than your opponent to win.
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Brian Royal is our forward coach isn't he.
Did he ever play there?
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hf: Cousins - Reiwoldt - Cotchin
ff: Brown - Richo - Deledio
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need cotchin + connors in there
+ a Key Forward. Any chance Geelong will let Tom Hawkins go at the end of 2009 :scream
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need cotchin + connors in there
+ a Key Forward. Any chance Geelong will let Tom Hawkins go at the end of 2009 :scream
We don't have a proper key forward. Riewoldt is an option but still a baby. If our midfeild is not good enough after 5 years of Wallace to be able to function without a 34 year old key forward then we are in trouble. Richo should play out of the square, (Hughes/Schultz -> rubbish, Gourdis/Putt/Vickery -> 2 years away).
Tuck, Foley, Cogs, Thomson, Polo etc. need to get it together and give our best players the ball near our goals.
Hawkins would be perfect to balance the list.
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I know he is only a rookie, but Nahas is simply too small!
He got brushed aside a couple of times last night, like he wasnt even there.
To the gym son!
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our forward line structure is horrible.
against fremantle and last night against collingwood have been horrible.
how many times we kick the ball to a 1 on 2 going forward is bad.
i don't think we have had a forward lead and take a mark, go back and kick a goal this year.
yes, it is pre-season, but all last year it has been a problem.
we need a 'big' key forward.
Jayden Post hopefully gets told this.
a position at full forward with his marking ability looks promising.
Cleve Hughes seems to slow and lacking confidence.
Jay Shultz could be the 'Mr Fix It Man' when he decides to play football.
Jack Riewoldt can play, just needs to work on his kicking at goal.
how many times we have Nathan Brown leading with two players with him is never going to work.
Morton, were was he last night? needs consistancy.
and our goalkicking?
do we actually practise goalkicking at training?
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hf: Cousins - Reiwoldt - Cotchin
ff: Brown - Richo - Deledio
Bents,
How can you leave Morton out of the lineup? He had a poor night against the Pies but he was in our equal 2nd highest goal scorer last year. He had one shot at goal from the pocket but like the rest of our forwards struggled with the back-line zone the Pies employed. This zone is going to make long kicks extremely rare unless teams have a quick turnover and fast break. I just hope with the additional space of the MCG we find it easier to move through these zones because otherwise we will have to change our game-plan and possibly even type of players we recruit in the future.
We can't have Richo at FF. I had flasbacks to the bad old days last night when our players were kicking to the big fellow with 3 players hanging off him and then at other time him getting the yips and missing from close range. We need Hughes, Schulz, Putt or Post in this position because the team is better with Richo away from this area. I think he was moved back here because he was getting beaten around the ground by Shaw who effectively tagged him. Richo and/or TW proabably thought to expose Shaws marking ability against Richo but the Pies defensive zone meant Shaw always had multiple helpers whenever the ball was kicked to the big fellow. Gibbs matches up equally as well against Richo so expect a quiet game from Richo in round one too. :'(
Cousins isn't elusive enough to be a forward. He is good breaking from the middle or running into the forwardline for an opportunist goal but someone like Morton is a far better fit IMHO.
Stripes
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with ease and under no pressure. The forward going for the mark needs to remember if he can't mark it then at least bring the ball down and keep it in front of you where your teammates are.
Funny you should mention this MT, because there were a couple of times liast night where Jack actually bought the ball to ground in front and Brown & Nahas were not front and square they were actually behind the contest
I couldn't believe it I was like this :banghead
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Just on the forward line, very happy to see young Jack doing well in the last two games. Very impressive and if he keeps coming on may shore up the gap with our KPP FF hole until it is sorted.
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Just on the forward line, very happy to see young Jack doing well in the last two games. Very impressive and if he keeps coming on may shore up the gap with our KPP FF hole until it is sorted.
Yep, Jack's a keeper.
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practice game ;D no1 cares
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Just on the forward line, very happy to see young Jack doing well in the last two games. Very impressive and if he keeps coming on may shore up the gap with our KPP FF hole until it is sorted.
Yep, Jack's a keeper.
Jack had the yips on Thursday night but yep he's definitely a keeper. A natural footballer so it was only a question of getting his fitness and size up to AFL level when drafted if he was going to make it. It now looks like 2009 his 3rd year may be his breakout year. We just need another big key tall to stand up with up forward with him. Hello Cleve!
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Tigers red-hot on forward firepower
richmondfc.com.au
By Jenna Szymanski
2:27 PM Fri 13 March, 2009
Richmond champion, Matthew Richardson, believes multiple goalscoring options will be vital to the team’s plans of success in the 2009 season.
The heavy emphasis on zone defence throughout this year’s NAB pre-season series has made it tough for teams to get through to their forward line and score. This, in turn, has led to plenty of discussion about how to combat the zone.
“The pre-season has probably been harder for all teams. There’s been a lot of zoning going on and it’s very hard to get through the zone with your skill levels. You definitely want to have a good share of goalkickers,” Richardson said.
Richardson, who has been Richmond’s leading goalkicker for the past eight seasons (and 13 times all-up), feels the Tigers now have the best spread of goalkickers he’s seen during his 16-year career at Punt Road.
With players such as Mitch Morton, who booted 35 goals in an impressive debut season for the Club last year, and Nathan Brown, who’s regained full fitness, Richardson, and the Tigers, are looking forward to having plenty of firepower up forward.
“Mitch Morton stepped up last year and Nathan Brown is back to his best now, and I think he’s going to kick a lot more goals. So, we’re going to have a good, even spread of goalkickers, which is what all teams want.”
Jack Riewoldt is another younger player, who shapes as a consistent goalkicker for the Tigers following his 18-goal return in 2008.
“Jack’s steadily progressed in his few years so far. It’s a big job for a young player taking on a key-position forward role and he’s starting to do that more consistently,” Richardson said.
“He’s starting to step up and he’s looking like he’s going to take another step this year.”
Throw in the likes of Brett Deledio (28 goals in ’08), Jay Schulz and Ben Cousins (a consistent goalscorer throughout his illustrious career at West Coast), and it’s no wonder “Richo” believes the race for the Michael Roach Medal as the Tigers’ leading goalkicker in 2009, is wide open.
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/73190/default.aspx
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We are 1 key forward short ... whatever happens in the trade or draft period needs to happen with getting a key forward as the BIGGEST priority imho.
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Apart from Richo, Morton would be our next best forward. Browny when he gets going too. Jack and Schultz need to do a lot more.
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Sarge has averaged 3 goals over the past two weeks. He'll start as a key forward in round 1.
May well be the key to our season IMO.
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Agree Magic. Sarge has sewn up FF for round 1.
We are 1 key forward short ... whatever happens in the trade or draft period needs to happen with getting a key forward as the BIGGEST priority imho.
True Ramps. Another KP forward and a quality midfielder would top off the list rebuilding nicely.
John Butcher would be the highest rated key forward available in this year's draft at this stage but he's likely to go first pick. He would've been picked up early last year if he was eligible.
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Agree Magic. Sarge has sewn up FF for round 1.
We are 1 key forward short ... whatever happens in the trade or draft period needs to happen with getting a key forward as the BIGGEST priority imho.
True Ramps. Another KP forward and a quality midfielder would top off the list rebuilding nicely.
John Butcher would be the highest rated key forward available in this year's draft at this stage but he's likely to go first pick. He would've been picked up early last year if he was eligible.
Its far to early to tell, but Butcher, stuff loom as the 2 who will go very early in terms of KPP players, Ben Griffiths is one who should be down the order a little bit, he may come into calculations for us. As for a midfielder, Kane Lucas would go ok Id reckon at Punt Rd.
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Agree Magic. Sarge has sewn up FF for round 1.
We are 1 key forward short ... whatever happens in the trade or draft period needs to happen with getting a key forward as the BIGGEST priority imho.
True Ramps. Another KP forward and a quality midfielder would top off the list rebuilding nicely.
John Butcher would be the highest rated key forward available in this year's draft at this stage but he's likely to go first pick. He would've been picked up early last year if he was eligible.
Its far to early to tell, but Butcher, stuff loom as the 2 who will go very early in terms of KPP players, Ben Griffiths is one who should be down the order a little bit, he may come into calculations for us. As for a midfielder, Kane Lucas would go ok Id reckon at Punt Rd.
You're right Ramps it's too early to predict the draft. We can only hope that one slips down the order because the recruiters fall in love with some utility athletic types or clubs below us have specific needs different from ours. There's always one that slips. We got Rance at 18. Who would've thought this time last year that Daniel Rich would slip to pick 7.
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Who would've thought this time last year that Daniel Rich would slip to pick 7.
It's a shame he didn't fall through to pick 8! He is going to be something special this kid and is ready to go NOW.
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Apart from Richo, Morton would be our next best forward. Browny when he gets going too. Jack and Schultz need to do a lot more.
Rough on Jack, much?
I don't see any other 20 year old or younger, key forwards doing more than Jack in the entire competition.
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Back to the drawing board.
Sarge did nothing, our set shot goalkicking continues to be poor since the start of preseason :banghead, and you're not going to win too many games having half the number of inside 50s as your opposition :P.
Bring back OER's favourite Cleve ;D.
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Cleve can't play while he has his foot injury
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We didn't really have a focal point, but what really annoyed me was that we had 0 defensive pressure in our forward 50 last night.
In contrast Fev, Robinson and a few of the blues were immense for them.
When you are an average player at the corssroads - as a bloke like Schulz is now - you hope to see a bit of fvcking effort.
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Spot on Jake. Nothing excuses a lack of effort. Jay had a chance to finally cement a spot in the side and disappointed again.
It must be a nightmare playing as one of our forwards though when our mids are going back and forth sideways by hand. Mind you that doesn't excuse our guys playing from behind too often or missing set shots :scream.
Cleve can't play while he has his foot injury
Yeah I know Infamy. I was being cheeky as Cleve doesn't have many fans on here.
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Yeah I know Infamy. I was being cheeky as Cleve doesn't have many fans on here.
Well I'm still a fan of his, it looks like he's on the road to recovery too given his game at Coburg Reserves this week
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Yeah I know Infamy. I was being cheeky as Cleve doesn't have many fans on here.
Well I'm still a fan of his, it looks like he's on the road to recovery too given his game at Coburg Reserves this week
Well if Sarge has another shocker Cleve will walk into the side. Cleve still needs to show 2nd efforts himself but at least he can kick straight at goal.
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our Forward Line and the Forward Structure is what i believe is the biggest "PROBLEM!"
our entries into 50, are shocking!
get Post in the Forward Line, DEEP! and can it too him (LONG!) and let him use those hands of his!
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Yeah I know Infamy. I was being cheeky as Cleve doesn't have many fans on here.
Well I'm still a fan of his, it looks like he's on the road to recovery too given his game at Coburg Reserves this week
Well if Sarge has another shocker Cleve will walk into the side. Cleve still needs to show 2nd efforts himself but at least he can kick straight at goal.
i dont get that comment MT. IF sarge has another SHOCKER.
Why wait for him to have another shock, dump him NOW.
im sick to death of his type. Lets see which youngsters can play starting with Rance. I mean god knows how he hasnt played a game ahead of Schulz and Mcguane.
Schulz should have been offloaded with Meyer and Hyde
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get Post in the Forward Line, DEEP! and can it too him (LONG!) and let him use those hands of his!
If he is ready fair enough, but no use feeding him to the Lions if he isnt. If he needs to work on his game then at the top level isnt the place to do it.
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I didn't think Sarge was anywhere near as bad as some are suggesting.
As usual Wallace shuffled him around all over the place. i think Richo even started at FF the other night.
Give Jay half a dozen games at FF (and play/keep him there!!). :rollin
If it doesn't work out after that time, then try another option whether that be Hughes, Post, Gourdis or whoever.
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I didn't think Sarge was anywhere near as bad as some are suggesting.
As usual Wallace shuffled him around all over the place. i think Richo even started at FF the other night.
Give Jay half a dozen games at FF (and play/keep him there!!). :rollin
If it doesn't work out after that time, then try another option whether that be Hughes, Post, Gourdis or whoever.
Agreed! Plugger Lockett could not have got a kick in our forward line last week the way the ball came in. Give Jay 5 or so weeks to show what he can do and if he fails at least we know one way or another. And then it's time to make a decission on him.
And for the record, i don't think he was our worst by a long shot the other night.
Edited to correct quote
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get Post in the Forward Line, DEEP! and can it too him (LONG!) and let him use those hands of his!
If he is ready fair enough, but no use feeding him to the Lions if he isnt. If he needs to work on his game then at the top level isnt the place to do it.
Based on what I saw last week watching Post playing for Coburg, he isn't' ready for seniors. Good points you make Chuck
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We took something like 16 marks inside forward 50 apparently (Richo took 6 of them) which sounds good but I thought when we needed our forwards to stand up when we weren't smashing Geelong out of the centre they went missing. Scarlett and Milburn were in the Geelong's best players. We went inside 50 enough today to kick a winning score but apart from that 3 quarter we could hardly score. Just kicking 5.3 in 3 quarters and from 30+ inside 50s is bloody ordinary.
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Yep still our weak point, but boy wasn't there some screamers in that 3rd qtr with Schulz and Morton. :gotigers
I think we still need to persist with Schulz at this stage.
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The solution is
a) We have to get an early pick to get one of the key young forwards available in the draft or
b) We try to lure a young FF type like Hawkins out of Geelong.
I have lost all faith in Schulz up forward. Clever has disappointed with his attack on the ball. Richo is 34 years old.
We need to do something.
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You can trade Rewoldt cause he is useless :rollin
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The solution is
a) We have to get an early pick to get one of the key young forwards available in the draft or
b) We try to lure a young FF type like Hawkins out of Geelong.
I have lost all faith in Schulz up forward. Clever has disappointed with his attack on the ball. Richo is 34 years old.
We need to do something.
Give Post a chance.
I am not sold on Nahas either.
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Nath Brown should be left as a loose man in defence
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You can trade Rewoldt cause he is useless :rollin
Jack's not a big key forward. He reminds me of Mark Williams before Buddy and Roughhead joined him at Hawthorn. He'll be better when we eventually have 2 big guys next to him but the likes of Vickery and Post are a couple of years away. Right now we have just one so he's played as our 2nd tall and that other tall next to him is pretty ordinary too. Ramps is right. We need to find and draft another quality 196cm key forward. It'll straighten us up.
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How far is Clever away
see local lad Ryan Allen having a run with Coburg ;D
now there is a hard fearless strong marking forward
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Tom Hawkins looks as though he doesnt want to be in Geelong, this I think will be heightened when he has to make way for Lonergan again. Richmond should be right onto his management as of now, I think theres a chance that a club will be able to get Hawkins out of Geelong, if they put the work in now with his management.
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we need a 'tall full forward' ... as we all know ...
i think we have to stick with Schulz at FF ...
Pattison could be something at FF ...
however ... Post ... i would just throw in there at FF now ...
but from what i have read ... he is not ready ...
i did not watch the match today, how did Nahas go?
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I'm not convinced bottoming out to pick up a quality forward in the draft or trading for a forward is the best option. We have KPF in the wings but they are either lacking in confidence, experience or size.
Vickery, Putt, Post, Gourdis and Pattison have all shown at various stages to be capable forward options but none, with the exception of possibility Patto, is experienced enough to step into the role.
One of Putt, Vickery, Gourdis or Post needs to fill the role. The problem is is that none of them will be ready for 2-3 years (sooner than a new recruit at least). Until they can fill the role they can still come in as the 3rd forward option or 'goal sitter' in the case of Vickery or Putt.
I still think Hughes and Schulz could surprize us but whatever happens our forwardline desperately needs a tall forward to step up quickly.
Still a big problem though in the short term.... ???
Stripes
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Structure wise it's working well and Schulz is doing some good things but needs to convert his chances to justify his spot.
Won't excuse his first quarter today though. Needs a cup of coffee before he runs out there.
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Structure wise it's working well
Agreed. We kick enouh goals from marks inside 50.
It is the other stuff - working hard, 1%ers, defensive pressure and locking the ball in. We'll be 5 goals better when we get a forward line with a better collective attitude.
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Agree Jake. We didn't get enough goals from non-marks.
I'm not convinced bottoming out to pick up a quality forward in the draft or trading for a forward is the best option. We have KPF in the wings but they are either lacking in confidence, experience or size.
Vickery, Putt, Post, Gourdis and Pattison have all shown at various stages to be capable forward options but none, with the exception of possibility Patto, is experienced enough to step into the role.
One of Putt, Vickery, Gourdis or Post needs to fill the role. The problem is is that none of them will be ready for 2-3 years (sooner than a new recruit at least). Until they can fill the role they can still come in as the 3rd forward option or 'goal sitter' in the case of Vickery or Putt.
I still think Hughes and Schulz could surprize us but whatever happens our forwardline desperately needs a tall forward to step up quickly.
Still a big problem though in the short term.... ???
Stripes
Vickery, Putt and even Patto aren't your traditional key forwards IMO. They are more ruckman/forwards long-term. I see Vickery relacing Simmo 2-3 years time with stints up forward rather than being our No.1 key forward.
I'm not confident Gourdis will make it. Good size to play KPP but his kicking is a serious problem as IIRC he didn't come from a footy background. It wouldn't surprise me if he was delisted by 2011.
Post can play at either end of the ground or on the wing but he made his name more as a tall rebounding defender as a junior.
A John Butcher (Vic Country and Gippsland Power's key forward) wouldn't go astray on our list although he'll probably go No.1 in the draft so we won't get him.
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I saw bj on BF mention the drop off in our forwards goalscoring. The goals per game stats back it up. It says a lot that Collo after only 3 matches is averaging more goals per game (1.7) as a midfielder than any of our forwards this year.
2008 2009
Richo 2.4 1.5
Morton 2.1 1.5
Brown 1.9 1.3
Riewoldt 1.0 1.2
Deledio was our best goalscoring midfielder last year at 1.3. He's down to 0.5 so far this year.
Last year we also had Cleve average 2 goals in his 6 games and Connors 1.3 in his 4. Petts also average a goal in his 6 matches.
Our goalkicking accuracy has dramatically fallen away as well :P.
2009: 67.74 = 47.5%
2008: 331.242 = 57.7%
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need cousins and cotchin in forward flanks
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need cousins and cotchin in forward flanks
We need another quality big marking key forward at least to straighten us up and let our mids to kick inside 50 with some confidence rather than having numbers behind the ball and then no one to kick too forward of the ball. 52 inside 50s for only a 11 goal return at the SCG is woeful.
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need cousins and cotchin in forward flanks
We need another quality big marking key forward at least to straighten us up and let our mids to kick inside 50 with some confidence rather than having numbers behind the ball and then no one to kick too forward of the ball. 52 inside 50s for only a 11 goal return at the SCG is woeful.
HF: Nahas - Reiwoldt - Cotchin
FF: Cousins - Richo - Brown/Morton/White