One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Lozza on March 27, 2009, 07:41:01 AM
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TACKLING - Is it me of do our guys seem to tackle with one arm, we consistently get brushed aside and when we do manage to hang on the opposition player 99/100 still manages to get their arms free to get a handball away. In the reverse situation we seem to try the "Tuck handball" method of throwing the ball back over our head, generally to an opposition player and if not then pinged by the umpire for throwing the ball anyway. Are not the fundamentals of tacking to bring the player you are tacking into a position of no return i.e. disable their ability to promote the ball which in turn may lead to a turnover or a free kick or at worst provide an opportunity to gain possession back for the team. We desperately need to address this issue, time after time Carlscum players broke lose from our poor attempts at tackles, we are just going to get pulverised every game if we dont improve this very lame aspect of our game.
TURNOVERS - Can the RFC ensure all players are tested for colour blindness. It seems they cannot differentiate between black and yellow and all other colours. What do these guys do at training, do they actually practice kicking to a target? Do we have kicking coaches who detect deficiencies and actually try to fix them? It doesnt seem that way, with the zonal possession game of today a team who cannot find a target across 20 metres is going to get slaughtered, as was the case last night. The thing that worries me is that these players are professionals, they live the game 24/7, if they cant get the fundamentals right then they are not suited to todays game, get rid of them and bring in players that can. Alternatively we need to intensively work to correct these deficiencies, the sad thing is that we seem to have a large section of the squad that has such deficiencies, how did we recruit such players in the first place? The other issue is that these skill errors spread like Cancer through the team, Lids who you would normally expect to hit a target could hit two from 20 metres, Browny missing the same targets in the middle of the ground. These players are supposedly our best but failed under pressure, why does this happen and what are we doing to ensure it doesnt happen regularly.
The simple fact is this, the game plan used by most of the top sides is well beyond our skill capability, that's why we will always be well behind the other clubs and finals football is such a struggle, unfortunately 9th position is a pretty good indicator of where we have been and where we are now skill wise, i dont see this improving in the short term.
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Tackle with one arm? More likely one finger.
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They are told at training by McRae to force their opponent to one side, watch and go for the hips and not get side-stepped. They also in the week leading into the first game worked on pressuring the second man if they first opponent gets the ball clear or it spills from the first tackle. They completely ignored coaching instructions based on Thursday night. No support whatsoever for teammates the whole night ::).
There are actually two types of tackles in footy and you need to decide on the spot which one is best for the situation. The first one is the safer option which is to tackle and pin both arms which causes a ball-up. The second one is to pin the free arm (the one without the ball) and try to get a free kick from the opponent holding the ball/illegal disposal. The risk is the ball can spill from the tackle to another opponent and they keep possession. Of course the umps don't pay frees of any type to Richo 20m out from goal :banghead.
As for disposal - the fault at training is they aren't picked up for mistakes enough. That is the coaches fault as well as players' own level of professionalism. Now the couple of training sessions leading into the game the skill level was decent to good (which made the total lack of skill we showed on Thursday night even more astonishing) but during the preseason sometimes there would be mistakes by hand and foot during a drill and the drill would continue on as nothing had happened. To me you would stop the drill every single time and tell the group that's not on and they'll do it again until they get it right.
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As for disposal - the fault at training is they aren't picked up for mistakes enough. That is the coaches fault as well as players' own level of professionalism. Now the couple of training sessions leading into the game the skill level was decent to good (which made the total lack of skill we showed on Thursday night even more astonishing) but during the preseason sometimes there would be mistakes by hand and foot during a drill and the drill would continue on as nothing had happened. To me you would stop the drill every single time and tell the group that's not on and they'll do it again until they get it right.
Decent to good? Not good enough. Should be better than just good. I agree with MT - drills should be done till they get it right - even if it takes all night.
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15 Carlton goals from our turnovers...there goes the game! We simply have to get better at hitting targets, particularly under pressure (and as was the case on Thursday, when not under pressure as well).
Turnovers were very costly last year and also in the NAB games this year...that and missed set shots at goal...deadly combination. We are not taking our chances (particularly early in games) when we get them and then we are gifting the oppostion.
Just think of the massive improvement on the scoreboard if these areas are turned around. Kick the 7 set shots (hello Jack) and only gift them 8 goals from turnovers....big difference.
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They are told at training by McRae to force their opponent to one side, watch and go for the hips and not get side-stepped. They also in the week leading into the first game worked on pressuring the second man if they first opponent gets the ball clear or it spills from the first tackle. They completely ignored coaching instructions based on Thursday night. No support whatsoever for teammates the whole night ::).
There are actually two types of tackles in footy and you need to decide on the spot which one is best for the situation. The first one is the safer option which is to tackle and pin both arms which causes a ball-up. The second one is to pin the free arm (the one without the ball) and try to get a free kick from the opponent holding the ball/illegal disposal. The risk is the ball can spill from the tackle to another opponent and they keep possession. Of course the umps don't pay frees of any type to Richo 20m out from goal :banghead.
As for disposal - the fault at training is they aren't picked up for mistakes enough. That is the coaches fault as well as players' own level of professionalism. Now the couple of training sessions leading into the game the skill level was decent to good (which made the total lack of skill we showed on Thursday night even more astonishing) but during the preseason sometimes there would be mistakes by hand and foot during a drill and the drill would continue on as nothing had happened. To me you would stop the drill every single time and tell the group that's not on and they'll do it again until they get it right.
Hawks repeat drills if their players miss targets our coaches do NOTHING.
thats the difference between a premeirship club and our dismal club
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15 Carlton goals from our turnovers...there goes the game! We simply have to get better at hitting targets, particularly under pressure (and as was the case on Thursday, when not under pressure as well).
Turnovers were very costly last year and also in the NAB games this year...that and missed set shots at goal...deadly combination. We are not taking our chances (particularly early in games) when we get them and then we are gifting the oppostion.
Just think of the massive improvement on the scoreboard if these areas are turned around. Kick the 7 set shots (hello Jack) and only gift them 8 goals from turnovers....big difference.
Exactly bg25. Good to catch up with you again at the game btw :).
If we do set shot goalkicking we must do it outside of normal training. Plenty of kicking/snapping goals on the run from 25-30m out but very little actual set shots and very few long goals. I heard a while back the fitness guys at clubs not just at the RFC don't like players doing too many set shots. For some reason they claim doing say 100 kicks in a row at goal is too much workload on top of normal training. I would've thought all the circle and tactical work you practice is a waste of energy if you can't put the ball between the two big sticks :scream.
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Tackling - if we improve this! we would be a better team. (how childish does that sound!)
Turnovers - well, they happen, but if we tackle or put pressure on the other team, they can have Turnovers too!
Goalkicking - i think is is so important! our shots on goal is bad. Riewoldt needs to improve, just take your team Jack! and for the whole team, take your time and concentrate!
T.T.G! :)
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15 Carlton goals from our turnovers...there goes the game!
Sadly some of our best senior players were the biggest culprits on Thursday night!!
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15 Carlton goals from our turnovers...there goes the game!
Sadly some of our best senior players were the biggest culprits on Thursday night!!
And supposedly most skilled players too. They collectively froze above the shoulders :scream.
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Tackling, shepherding and blocking should become our No 1 priority for the rest of the season. I remember starting a thread some time a go about our Style of Play discussing how we just don't do it! Other teams free up space by shepherding for the ball carrier, blocking for a lading team-mate and tackling opponents to not only cause a turnover but to sap them of their energy but we continue to try and look to recieve and work individually. This has got to stop. :banghead
When TW dropped Bowden and Pettifier for their lack of tackling the result was fantastic. We tackled fiercely, fought for each other and did the hard things. When our senior players don't defend - Bowden, Richo, Simmonds and Brown what message does this send to the younger players?!
We need to work for each other, stop looking for the easy get and become harder and tougher. At the moment we are a team of outside wingmen. We need to tackle, shepherd and block our way to the finals.
Toughen up Tigers and start playing for each other! :pray
Stripes
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Tackling, shepherding and blocking should become our No 1 priority for the rest of the season. I remember starting a thread some time a go about our Style of Play discussing how we just don't do it! Other teams free up space by shepherding for the ball carrier, blocking for a lading team-mate and tackling opponents to not only cause a turnover but to sap them of their energy but we continue to try and look to recieve and work individually. This has got to stop. :banghead
When TW dropped Bowden and Pettifier for their lack of tackling the result was fantastic. We tackled fiercely, fought for each other and did the hard things. When our senior players don't defend - Bowden, Richo, Simmonds and Brown what message does this send to the younger players?!
We need to work for each other, stop looking for the easy get and become harder and tougher. At the moment we are a team of outside wingmen. We need to tackle, shepherd and block our way to the finals.
Toughen up Tigers and start playing for each other! :pray
Stripes
Spot on Stripes. We are the worst team at it because we simply don't shepherd and block. All that happens is one Tiger will be chased by an opponent so he'll handball off to a receiving teammate and the chaser just flies by the first Tiger and pressurises the receiver. We don't create time and space off the ball for each other.
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Tackles vs Carlton according to One Week at a Time tonight......
Defence: 18 - 7
Midfield: 33 - 55
Forward: 3 - 20
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Forward: 3 - 20
That's the damning one for me
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Forward: 3 - 20
That's the damning one for me
Message aint getting through, its as simple as that.
Wallace and King have to go
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King is not the forward coach he is the backline coach. Royal is the forward coach and before we start to blame everything on the coaches yet again we need to point the finger at the forwards who are not following directions.
Richo is the worst defender of the lot and yet he is the most revered of the senior players on the list. Bowden played in defence most of his career yet has barely layed a tackle and now he is playing mainly up forward. Morton and Riewoldt actually chase and try and lay tackles but the rest of the forwardline is terrible. As soon as the opposition get the ball in our F50 you can be sure it will be coming out quicker than it came in.
I thought this was the very reason we recruited Nahas, because of his defensive pressure and run down ability. Similiarly we need our bigger forwards such as Schulz, Hughes and Simmonds when he is resting down there to still fight to keep the ball in our forwardline.
Overall the players need to take responsibility for our poor defensive pressure across the ground and the coaches need to make them accountable (like they did with Bowden last year) if we are to improve as a list and team.
The spot light needs to be put on all our players and with our on field leaders starting with the big fellow himself - Richo, because we are now being called a 'delight' to play because we don't tackle and that is not something that sits well with me.
Toughen up Tigers!
Stripes
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Tackling no longer a winner in new game
Greg Denham | March 31, 2009
WIN the tackle count against your opponent and you win the game. Not so, at least not any more.
Five first-round losers actually won the tackle count, but picked up no premiership points.
Hawthorn, Collingwood, Essendon, Melbourne and, believe it or not, Fremantle had more tackles than their opposition, but were beaten.
In the Dockers' case, they had 65 tackles to the Bulldogs' 49 but were blown away by 63 points.
The best tackling club in the opening round was Carlton, which made 82 tackles to Richmond's 54.
But that statistic was not surprising, given the Tigers, in four years and one game under coach Terry Wallace, have won the tackle count in just 29 of their 89 games. Under Wallace, Richmond has executed 560 tackles less than its opponents.
The other winners with the highest tackle count were St Kilda (74) over the Swans (57) and Brisbane (67) to West Coast's 32.
The Eagles cleared out by as much as 38 points in the second term at the Gabba, but were overrun and lost by nine points. However, under a different John Worsfold game plan, which includes defensive zoning, they had 14 players with one or less tackles for the match.
Tackling and the pressure it places on the opposition is just one aspect of the modern game, but increasingly it is the contested ball balance that is gaining more significance as a barometer of how well a team is playing.
Tackling is not the key indicator of success it once was, just as the possession count is now generally way out of kilter with the success-rate it produced a decade ago.
But sometimes a high-possession performance can reflect a victory, as the Western Bulldogs delivered on Sunday in Perth.
The Dogs had a club record 446 disposals, compared with Fremantle's 345. The Dogs bettered their previous best effort - against Brisbane last year - by one.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25265800-5012432,00.html
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WIN the tackle count against your opponent and you win the game. Not so, at least not any more.
Except for the 3 winners who won the tackle count. :sleep
Hope he's right about contested possessions being the key indicator. We're good at that.
Turnovers are the killer.
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it was not our tackling or lack of it that lost the game for us. it was plain and simple, turnovers and poor skill execution.
once these issues are addressed, we will be fine. its rnd 1, no need to panic
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After just 45 tackles against Adelaide I was looking at our tackling stats so far this year and came across how much the number of tackles per game has increased in the past decade. It's virtually more than doubled :o.
1999: Average tackles per match = 25 (Essendon averaged the most with 28)
http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=1999&Sort=AverageTackles%20Desc
2009: Average tackles per match = 60 (St Kilda is averaging almost 70 per game)
http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=2009&Sort=Tackles%20Desc
Btw here's Richmond's tackling stats per game since 1995:
2009: 55 ( 13th )
2008: 48 ( 16th )
2007: 45 ( 16th )
2006: 45 ( 14th )
2005: 41 ( 14th )
2004: 42 ( 12th )
2003: 41 ( 15th )
2002: 42 ( 12th )
2001: 37 ( 4th )
2000: 31 ( 10th )
1999: 26 ( 7th )
1998: 36 ( 2nd )
1997: 31 ( 5th )
1996: 31 ( 7th )
1995: 30 ( 5th )
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Jimmy Bartel had 16 tackles today. Unbelievable! :o
I hope our boys watched the game today. Ruthless, relentless and uncompromising footy in action over 4 quarters.
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After just 45 tackles against Adelaide I was looking at our tackling stats so far this year and came across how much the number of tackles per game has increased in the past decade. It's virtually more than doubled :o.
1999: Average tackles per match = 25 (Essendon averaged the most with 28)
http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=1999&Sort=AverageTackles%20Desc
2009: Average tackles per match = 60 (St Kilda is averaging almost 70 per game)
http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=2009&Sort=Tackles%20Desc
Btw here's Richmond's tackling stats per game since 1995:
2009: 55 ( 13th )
2008: 48 ( 16th )
2007: 45 ( 16th )
2006: 45 ( 14th )
2005: 41 ( 14th )
2004: 42 ( 12th )
2003: 41 ( 15th )
2002: 42 ( 12th )
2001: 37 ( 4th )
2000: 31 ( 10th )
1999: 26 ( 7th )
1998: 36 ( 2nd )
1997: 31 ( 5th )
1996: 31 ( 7th )
1995: 30 ( 5th )
You know I thought we were a defensive side under Frawley but our tackle count says we weren't. And I knew we weren't under Wallace. I hope we are under Hardwick.
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After just 45 tackles against Adelaide I was looking at our tackling stats so far this year and came across how much the number of tackles per game has increased in the past decade. It's virtually more than doubled :o.
1999: Average tackles per match = 25 (Essendon averaged the most with 28)
http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=1999&Sort=AverageTackles%20Desc
2009: Average tackles per match = 60 (St Kilda is averaging almost 70 per game)
http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=2009&Sort=Tackles%20Desc
Btw here's Richmond's tackling stats per game since 1995:
2009: 55 ( 13th )
2008: 48 ( 16th )
2007: 45 ( 16th )
2006: 45 ( 14th )
2005: 41 ( 14th )
2004: 42 ( 12th )
2003: 41 ( 15th )
2002: 42 ( 12th )
2001: 37 ( 4th )
2000: 31 ( 10th )
1999: 26 ( 7th )
1998: 36 ( 2nd )
1997: 31 ( 5th )
1996: 31 ( 7th )
1995: 30 ( 5th )
Amazing stats these.
A St Kilda supporting friend of mine actually complained about how ordinary the game aesthetically with it degenerating into stoppages that resemble Rugby Union style mauls.
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A St Kilda supporting friend of mine actually complained about how ordinary the game aesthetically with it degenerating into stoppages that resemble Rugby Union style mauls.
How funny is that. He should complain to the St Kilda coaching group - they're the ones that brought that style to the game - Geelong certainly don't play like that.
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How funny is that. He should complain to the St Kilda coaching group - they're the ones that brought that style to the game - Geelong certainly don't play like that.
Most definitely.
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Those stats looking back at them show we as a club didn't move with the times and trends of the game. Apart from 2000 we were in the top 8 tackling sides in the 90s. In fact at the time we were often criticised as a team that played on passion and grinding out wins rather than skill. Since we last made the finals we've been in the bottom 5 tackling sides. So our tackling and defensive pressure hasn't kept up as the game evolved (plus our skill level is still crap :P ).
A St Kilda supporting friend of mine actually complained about how ordinary the game aesthetically with it degenerating into stoppages that resemble Rugby Union style mauls.
How funny is that. He should complain to the St Kilda coaching group - they're the ones that brought that style to the game - Geelong certainly don't play like that.
Yep Ross Lyon has turned St Kilda into Sydney. Midfielders and backline shutdown the game with defensive pressure and turn it into stoppage after stoppage rugby style :sleep. That's why their mids hardly kick goals and they rely on Riewoldt, Kosi, Milne and Schneider with McQualter chipping in to kick most of their goals.
As for Geelong's style, I love the way they play. It's the way footy should be played in the modern era. Tough, unrelenting, down the corridor footy. For the sake of footy and the way opposition clubs love to follow trends I'm glad the Cats won over such a negative constrictive gameplan. The problem with such a overtly defensive style is the scoreboard remains close against good opposition so you always give them a sniff if you don't take your scoring opportunities. That's what happened to St Kilda yesterday. They blew it in front of goal.