One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Ramps on July 22, 2009, 12:32:09 AM
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Why the eff would anyone publically state this poo
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Terry Wallace coached Richmond to snag Trent Cotchin
Mark Stevens and Jon Ralph | July 21, 2009 11:37pm
FORMER coach Terry Wallace did "absolutely nothing" in a game two years ago, knowing a win would cost the Tigers prized recruit Trent Cotchin.
As the AFL continues to deny tanking exists, Wallace told the Herald Sun last night he was compromised as the Tigers took on St Kilda in Round 22, 2007.
"It was a no-win situation for everyone in the coach's box," Wallace said.
"We decided the best way to operate was just to let the players go out.
"I didn't do anything. I just let the boys play. There weren't any miracle moves in the last couple of minutes."
Richmond led by nine points 12 minutes into the final term, but the Saints kicked the last three goals to win by 10 points.
Wallace stressed he did not tank, but the comments are the biggest revelation on the subject since Tony Liberatore claimed last year Carlton threw matches to get ruckman Matthew Kreuzer.
Wallace found himself in the insidious position of knowing the Tigers needed a loss more than a victory in the MCG clash.
Aware the club would be rewarded with Cotchin and a priority pick if it finished last, Wallace barely made a move.
But Wallace said the Tigers would not have come back from six goals down earlier in the match if he had been hell-bent on tanking.
Instead, he let the match take its natural course.
While his moves did not cost the Tigers the game, he did not make moves to win it either.
A reluctant Wallace did not want to comment on possible solutions or fuel the tanking debate, but said he could not "shy away" from the scenario he was thrust into.
The issue is set to be a topic of discussion at the AFL Coaches Association's October meeting, with coaches under increasing scrutiny for list management methods.
The confirmation of Wallace's "non-actions" came as Geelong coach Mark Thompson called on the AFL to consider changing its priority pick system if West Coast can win a premiership, then receive a priority pick within two years.
The Eagles' poor 2008 season gave them a priority pick at the start of the draft's second round last year, and if they don't win another game this season, they will be handed a prized choice before the first round.
Three other clubs -- Fremantle, Melbourne and Richmond -- are also in the running for priority picks this year, provided they don't win more than four games. The tanking speculation continues to undermine the competition's integrity, but AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou was emphatic on the weekend there would be no change to the system.
But Thompson told the Herald Sun the league should keep its options open.
"The league needs to keep an open mind to change things based on current circumstances such as new teams joining and teams such as West Coast going from Grand Finals to priority pick eligibility in a short space of time," he said.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25817330-19742,00.html
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Raines on Reiwoldt lol
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But Andy D told us there's no such thing as tanking. He wouldn't tell us fibs would he :wallywink
Some may argue that was Plough's best coaching performance in his whole 5 years ;D. A meaningless loss we won out of in the long run :thumbsup.
Seriously that game especially the last 10 minutes was very suss at the time. We were dominating and all over the Saints in that last quarter and then all of a sudden for no apparent reason we start chipping it around the backline when we hadn't played that way all day. We even had free players in open space on the wing but our defenders ignored them to chip backwards and sideways until we turned over the ball ???. I'm not complaining but I remember sitting with WP at that game and saying afterwards those last 10 mins were very suspicious.
A number of clubs have tanked so it's no surprise. Pies and Hawks in 2005, Blues in 2007 and now the Eagles and Dees this year. While the carrot is there and the AFL pretend the issue doesn't exist clubs will exploit the rule.
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Former Richmond coach Terry Wallace's day off nailed bonus
Mark Stevens | July 23, 2009 11:57pm
TERRY Wallace's heart was telling him he could not coach to lose. His head was telling him it made no sense to coach to win.
Feeling uncomfortable and compromised as the tanking debate raged, he did neither.
Wallace earned a reputation as a sharp match-day tactician with a trick-bag full of moves.
Yet on a dark day at the MCG two years ago, he barely made any.
The former Richmond coach basically sat on his hands and watched the Round 22 match against St Kilda in 2007 unfold.
His magnetic board man normally had the toughest job at the club. This day, at the MCG, he had it easy.
Chris Hyde, a hard worker more than a game breaker, was given rare extra time to play in the midfield.
Other players were left in spots longer than usual.
Chris Newman, the Tigers' best player that day with 32 disposals, was on the bench when the game was up for grabs late.
Wallace, though, has clarified that strange twist, saying Newman was on the bench because of an interchange mix-up involving Shane Tuck.
The coach sat back in the box and Newman looked on from the bench as a dropped mark by Graham Polak and an untimely turnover or two cost the Tigers the game.
Richmond led by nine points 12 minutes into the final term when Kayne Pettifer kicked a behind.
But the Saints kicked the final three goals of the game, winning by 10 points.
It was the perfect result.
Wallace knew the club was far better off long term finishing last on the ladder.
A loss ensured the Tigers would finish last on 14 points and come under the 16-point threshold, guaranteeing the club Trent Cotchin and a priority pick after the first round of the draft.
Wallace said the Tigers knew Carlton would take Matthew Kreuzer with the No. 1 pick it would earn for winning four games or fewer two years running.
If the Tigers had beaten St Kilda, they would have handed pick No. 2 to Carlton and been forced to settle for pick No. 3.
Given Chris Judd was leaving West Coast, under that scenario the Blues would have surely given up pick No. 2 to the Eagles to land their man.
That would have given West Coast the option of taking Cotchin with No. 2, leaving the Tigers to miss out.
The other reward for losing was pick No. 18, the priority after the first round, which the Tigers used to take Alex Rance.
Both Cotchin and Rance look 10-year players.
In an interview 40 minutes before that game, Wallace conceded he felt compromised going into battle.
Looking back on his experience of being torn by the lure of a priority pick, Wallace told Channel 7 recently: "As a coach, it was a very tough day at the office.
"I just coached and let them play in the exactly the same positions they played in all day."
Given the rewards on offer, you can understand why.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25817488-19742,00.html
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Hardly earth shattering news. I would have been very angry had we won that game. Tanking exists. Demitriou can put his head in the sand all he wants.
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Nice of Terry to come out and generate some negative publicity about the club.
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Nice of Terry to come out and generate some negative publicity about the club.
I don't think this farce of a situation should continue
Unless of course the AFL wants to ruin the game entirely, if it hasn't already
I don't blame supporters wanting their team to lose because that's the situation the AFL have created, but it just doesn't seem right to me that winning isn't everything any more.
It's an absolute joke.
I have no problem with him highlighting the issue
It has to stop
:help
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I agree Froars, I cant see a difference between what Wallace did and other coaches bringing in kids and not playing experienced players, it all says the same thing to me. "Winning is not the most important thing right now". I hate the thought of tanking, and I hope now that a coach has more or less admitted to it, the AFL will pull their heads out of their proverbials :banghead
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Nice of Terry to come out and generate some negative publicity about the club.
I don't think this farce of a situation should continue
Unless of course the AFL wants to ruin the game entirely, if it hasn't already
I don't blame supporters wanting their team to lose because that's the situation the AFL have created, but it just doesn't seem right to me that winning isn't everything any more.
It's an absolute joke.
I have no problem with him highlighting the issue
It has to stop
:help
Completely agree. I might get caned for saying this, but I have no interest in going to many (if any) more games this year, because I'm not certain whether the club plans on winning any more. Why should I invest the time and money to get off my arse and go when we don't even plan on winning?
I don't blame the club or the clubs who are doing it. I solely blame the AFL and that moron Demetriou for pretending it doesn't exist.
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Nice of Terry to come out and generate some negative publicity about the club.
I don't think this farce of a situation should continue
Unless of course the AFL wants to ruin the game entirely, if it hasn't already
I don't blame supporters wanting their team to lose because that's the situation the AFL have created, but it just doesn't seem right to me that winning isn't everything any more.
It's an absolute joke.
I have no problem with him highlighting the issue
It has to stop
:help
Completely agree. I might get caned for saying this, but I have no interest in going to many (if any) more games this year, because I'm not certain whether the club plans on winning any more. Why should I invest the time and money to get off my behind and go when we don't even plan on winning?
I don't blame the club or the clubs who are doing it. I solely blame the AFL and that moron Demetriou for pretending it doesn't exist.
You ain't alone there, I feel exactly the same
But you'll be called a bad supporter ::)
Wallace recommended a system a few years back, but the AFL just sat back and said there wasn't a problem
Although I do have a conspiracy theory that Mike stuff, as President of the AFL, thought it was an ok system when the Blues were doing well out of their little rort :banghead
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This is the game that he admitted on radio before the match that winning would be pretty much losing.
He didn't do anything as a coach that day and we nearly beat St. Kilda. If he did coach, we'd have lost by 10 goals!
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A loss ensured the Tigers would finish last on 14 points and come under the 16-point threshold, guaranteeing the club Trent Cotchin and a priority pick after the first round of the draft.
We have already been punished for getting an extra top 20 draft pick.
We got Jordan McMahon..... :banghead
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Nice of Terry to come out and generate some negative publicity about the club.
The publicity may not be good but thankyou Terry, sacrifice 1 game to get a superstar for 200+ games.
:bow :bow :bow
The system needs fixing and most likely will, take avantage while you can.
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Its when you line these priority picks up with the players they got that you see what a huge lure tanking truly is.
Demetrio needs to pull his head out of ... the sand, and change the system.
Stripes
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Its when you line these priority picks up with the players they got that you see what a huge lure tanking truly is.
Demetrio needs to pull his head out of ... the sand, and change the system.
Stripes
On this I think we (pro-tankers and anti-tankers) all agree.
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Whats next Andy D......global warming is a myth.
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Yes it is.
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and to think some of you on here appluaded this guy and asked for his contract renewal as early as last year.
TERRY IS THE SCUM OF THE EARTH
why anyone would come out and make comments about their old club is beyond me.
what a stuffin loser
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Newman admits priority picks need review
richmondfc.com.au
By Jason Phelan Wed 22 July, 2009
RICHMOND captain Chris Newman has given cautious support to calls for a review of the priority pick system following the sensational claims made by former coach Terry Wallace on Wednesday.
Wallace made headlines when he revealed he had coached the round 22 match of the 2007 season against St Kilda with an eye on securing the pick that allowed the club to recruit young gun Trent Cotchin.
The Tigers lost the match by 10 points after leading by three at three-quarter time.
"I guess it needs to be looked at, but I think the idea behind it is genuine in making sure that the competition is as even as possible," Newman said.
"Every team and every player wants to go out and win. There's no way that you could possibly say to a player, 'Miss this goal or drop that mark'."
Newman's own recollections of the match in which he secured three Brownlow votes were vague and he admitted his disappointment in Wallace's comments.
"What Terry said is up to Terry and you'd probably have to ask him why that occurred," he said when asked why he spent the last eight minutes of that game on the bench.
"I'm not angry about it but probably a bit more disappointed. I'm not sure where Terry was coming from with that."
More to follow...
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/81164/default.aspx
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I find it laughable that TW would think any such move would have made a modicum of difference to the result...since when :whistle
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and to think some of you on here appluaded this guy and asked for his contract renewal as early as last year.
TERRY IS THE SCUM OF THE EARTH
why anyone would come out and make comments about their old club is beyond me.
what a effin loser
Even as a Terry hater Daniel, you cant honestly think what he said was wrong? How? He only said out loud what everyone else only gossips and whispers about, its more a comment about the system than Richmond, and hopefully some good will come of it. I personally think he did the right thing, someone had to, and trust me, there are worse people than Terry around so he is hardly the "SCUM OF THE EARTH" Bit dramatic that, do you write for Home and Aaway?
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Yes it is.
agree
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It hasn't been a great week for Andy D, has it?
The key planks of the AFL’s equalisation policies are the salary cap and the draft system.
We've had the artilcles about Judd's Visy payments not being quite as above board as the AFL has made out and now we have the tanking debate in full swing with tidbits from TW and a response from Chris Newman.
It seems that there is equilisation and equilisation - not all teams are as "equalised" as others. The Blues got their priority picks and Judd and apparently have "plenty of room" in their salary cap for anyone else they want to target. West Coast is obviously just as bad a basket case as Melbourne, three years after winning a premiership ....
Andy D has a bit more convincing to do, I reckon.
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Good on TW for saying what everybody knows but will not say. :clapping
So to the anti tankers, (WP that means you) does it make some sense to lose games when we recieve a superstar like Cotch for doing so? And Rance.
To those who still say no, take your medication. :lol
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Wallace coming up on SEN after 6pm tonight.
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Summary of Wallace on SEN with Francis and Ox
* Plough says it's all a beat up to be honest.
* Leading up to that game he mentioned the difficulty he was under and copped stuff after the game yet 2 years later we are still talking about the same problem.
* We had a good side on the day and hadn't put anyone away for surgery or anything like that. The Saints had Dal Santo, Hayes, etc so they have a very good side on the park. We were 6 goals down and we fought back.
* We thought if we made any moves we'd be under scruting no matter what we did so we decided to just let them play.
* We didn't do anything up and above what we'd normally do in terms of the team structure. We didn't move Browny say out of the forward line.
* Francis said well you could be scrutinized for not doing anything. Plough replied well does that scrutiny from what we did or from the situation we were put under. Francis agreed it's the latter and said he doesn't blame clubs doing what is in the best interests of themselves.
* Plough said the performance of Richmond on that day would've beaten Carlton and Melbourne who played the following day by 12 goals.
* We as coaches had very little impact in being 6 goals down, and very little impact in fighting back to get in front, and very little impact in St Kilda kicking the last 2 goals.
* The result wasn't surprising. St Kilda were sitting ninth having just missed the finals and we were second last. It would have been a huge turn-up if we had got up to win.
* Terry felt he wasn't misrepresented by the article today. If you put the two articles together you get what he said and it provides discussion for you guys in the media.
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Pointless getting Cotchin when you then give up an early pick for McMahon. :banghead
Whats does need reviewing isnt the tanking issue but who does the recruiting and trading of draft pick at Punt Road :banghead :banghead :banghead
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What I find more galling from the dried sultana is he sits there and talks about how he felt compromised in rd 22 2007 and did not coach yet he still systematically named a side that had every "older" player available to him bar the injured Simmonds instead of playing all the kids as a normal coach who was tanking would building for the future.
Flippant to say the least and has shown how far off the mark he actually was.
In 4.5 years he didn't coach in one game and we lost by 10 points and should have won yet for the remainder of the games we were getting flogged for the most part. If he is telling the truth there it just goes to show that the players were lost with the game style he was trying to implement and get the players to adopt.
The man has shown no class and no integrity. The ego has got a boosting.
Stay tuned for the next installment of So you think you've got an ego when Terry will explain why he won't reveal the issues regarding the alledged player split in Mid May but will reveal why he said what he said today. :whistle
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One-Eyed, do me a favour and stop posting Terry Wallace articles! Im sick of the well rehearsed, repetitive responses it evokes! Tucker, you said Tw never coached a game in 4 1/2 years? Well what about the win against the crows after a 100 point plus flogging the week before?
Can we dispense with usual bagging of Wallace? He is gone now and you cant expeect him not to make a comment about his time at richmond if he is asked!
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Newy got the 3 Brownlow votes and had the most possessions on the ground (32) which is why the media questioned him today.
Pointless getting Cotchin when you then give up an early pick for McMahon. :banghead
Whats does need reviewing isnt the tanking issue but who does the recruiting and trading of draft pick at Punt Road :banghead :banghead :banghead
Well just one of the reasons why Plough got the stuff. Yep we should have got Cotch, Rance and Scott Selwood out of it.
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whats of interest is this.
What if the AFL investigates and we lose picks in the upcoming drafts, :o :o :o :o
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GR 12 Terry coached us to less than 10 wins against teams that finished in the top 8 that season in 5 years. That game bucked the trend and even I had some money on the Tiges that weekend and cashed in after Adelaide played North at the Dome in a late Mothers Day Bounce down on Mothers Day (was the era pre Twilight Games but North thought they would test the market on Mothers Day) and flew back to Adelaide on Tuesday with short preparation, the week after we got flogged by 20 goals from Sydney.
Furthermore that chip chip game style he employed for the most part in 2007 because he was bereft of ideas with our poorly skilled list and was trying to stop the bleeding on the scoreboard for the most part bar the Geelong game and a few others that year.
I know for some it's repetitive to hear the badmouthing of Terry to be quite stuff whilst he was the last few weeks of his tenure this year I was growing very tiresome of it too, but when he just comes out just to boost his ego to talk about this and that when he is not required to then I feel my right is to diagree and give my opinion. He has done himself no favours in this one and the only right thing to do even if he was questioned about it was to let it pass through to the keeper.
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Fair response Tucker! My beef is that after 4 and a half seasons at one of Australias olddestand most famous clubs that people will want to hear about it. I dont believe he is doing it to boost hes own ego, i think he is doing it to validate many opinions that tanking, or picking a side that wont win, exists. Now i appreciate that you and some others dont like Wallace as a coach and convey this in a well balanced way, but others seem to just have a set on him for no disernable reason and its tiresome!
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and to think some of you on here appluaded this guy and asked for his contract renewal as early as last year.
TERRY IS THE SCUM OF THE EARTH
why anyone would come out and make comments about their old club is beyond me.
what a effin loser
Don't ever venture into the forest Daniel, for you cannot tell the 'wood from the trees' ::)
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whats of interest is this.
What if the AFL investigates and we lose picks in the upcoming drafts, :o :o :o :o
What are the AFL going to charge Richmond with given they don't believe tanking even exists. It'd be like an aetheist convicting someone for blasphemy.
Libba came out last year and claimed Carlton tanked to get Kreuzer and Judd. The AFL just ignored it.
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GR 12 Terry coached us to less than 10 wins against teams that finished in the top 8 that season in 5 years. That game bucked the trend and even I had some money on the Tiges that weekend and cashed in after Adelaide played North at the Dome in a late Mothers Day Bounce down on Mothers Day (was the era pre Twilight Games but North thought they would test the market on Mothers Day) and flew back to Adelaide on Tuesday with short preparation, the week after we got flogged by 20 goals from Sydney.
Furthermore that chip chip game style he employed for the most part in 2007 because he was bereft of ideas with our poorly skilled list and was trying to stop the bleeding on the scoreboard for the most part bar the Geelong game and a few others that year.
I know for some it's repetitive to hear the badmouthing of Terry to be quite stuff whilst he was the last few weeks of his tenure this year I was growing very tiresome of it too, but when he just comes out just to boost his ego to talk about this and that when he is not required to then I feel my right is to diagree and give my opinion. He has done himself no favours in this one and the only right thing to do even if he was questioned about it was to let it pass through to the keeper.
mate, what do you expect from him, really, he aint no good
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One-Eyed, do me a favour and stop posting Terry Wallace articles! Im sick of the well rehebehindd, repetitive responses it evokes!
Can't you say 'rehebehindd' on this forum? Re hear sed!!!
That's the swear filter gone crazy!! And while I'm on that topic it's a bit unfair that some posters are getting warned for avoiding the swear filter when WP does it all the time!
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The only way to avoid tanking is for the bottom club to be relegated back down to a state based competition.
But the AFL are too lazy and stupid to bother with anything that means more work and less long lunches.
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and to think some of you on here appluaded this guy and asked for his contract renewal as early as last year.
TERRY IS THE SCUM OF THE EARTH
why anyone would come out and make comments about their old club is beyond me.
what a effin loser
Even as a Terry hater Daniel, you cant honestly think what he said was wrong? How? He only said out loud what everyone else only gossips and whispers about, its more a comment about the system than Richmond, and hopefully some good will come of it. I personally think he did the right thing, someone had to, and trust me, there are worse people than Terry around so he is hardly the "SCUM OF THE EARTH" Bit dramatic that, do you write for Home and Aaway?
the point is your love child again finds ways to put his name in the spotlight.
he was the worst thing that happened to the footy club and as each day passes he just proves it.
WHY DOESN'T HE JUST STFU WHEN IT COMES TO THE RFC
he screwed us over for 5 years and now he is has to make more comments.
he should crawl under a rock and tan himself silly
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That's the swear filter gone crazy!! And while I'm on that topic it's a bit unfair that some posters are getting warned for avoiding the swear filter when WP does it all the time!
:o :o :o
All the time :-\
What ???
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Yeah. ;D
Not swearing is definitely avoiding the swear filter.
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That's the swear filter gone crazy!! And while I'm on that topic it's a bit unfair that some posters are getting warned for avoiding the swear filter when WP does it all the time!
Not something I associate with WP
Me, maybe - WP no lol
:rollin
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One-Eyed, do me a favour and stop posting Terry Wallace articles! Im sick of the well rehebehindd, repetitive responses it evokes!
Can't you say 'rehebehindd' on this forum? Re hear sed!!!
That's the swear filter gone crazy!! And while I'm on that topic it's a bit unfair that some posters are getting warned for avoiding the swear filter when WP does it all the time!
What happened? It was meant to be rehearsed!
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* Plough said the performance of Richmond on that day would've beaten Carlton and Melbourne who played the following day by 12 goals.
I noticed this from the article yesterday.
We played BEFORE Carlton and Melbourne, yet Terry said that we knew that Carlton would take Kreuzer. Richmond knew Carlton were going to tank on the Sunday.
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That's the swear filter gone crazy!! And while I'm on that topic it's a bit unfair that some posters are getting warned for avoiding the swear filter when WP does it all the time!
:o :o :o
All the time :-\
What ???
Sorry, 'all the time' is an exageration, it should've read "WP does it after each questionable performance by Chris Newman" ;D
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Just for fun.........rehearsed