One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: TigerLand on August 15, 2009, 07:20:59 PM
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This I' sure will get canned.. I've had this in the cooker for about 2 months since the Wallace circus..
After many nights at the pub over the past month the boys and I always get into this chat about how this would help some clubs in the AFL.
- AFL Division 2
Ok just hear me out:
The way it works:
AFL Toyota Premiership Season
- 24 rounds
- 12 teams play each other twice, one home and one away. Finally getting a fair fixture.
- Top 6 plays finals.
- 11th and 12th team are relegated to AFL Division 2.
AFL NAB Div2 Premiership Season
- 24 rounds
- 8 teams play each other 3 times in year, Home Away Home, then swapped for next year with Away Home Away fixture.
- Teams: Currently bottom 4 established AFL Clubs. Additional Clubs: Gold Coast, W.Sydney, Hobart, Darwin.
- Top 4 play finals
- Wooden Spoon is relagated to respective VFL, SANFL, WAFL league, where that grade equivilent premier earns DIV 2 birth. Draft Pick 1 goes to this club with Draft pick 2 goes to Division 2 2nd last and then 3rd pick goes to Div 2 second last and so on until you get to Div 2 Premier and then working up into Div 1.
- Trades are possible through any Division with possibilty of mid year trade.
*Possibly could have a Canberra Team and Cairns team as well.
Positives.
It will eliminate tanking. No team will ever want to get relegated.
It helps with the incredibly large gap of quality in the AFL at the present time. The difference between the best and the worst is disgusting large, biggest it has ever been. I honestly think the gap between Richmond and the best VFL side would be smaller then St Kilda and Richmond.
It allows some of the bottom teams to actually look forward to playing football. It allows these bottom teams fans to be entertained past 10 mins in the 1st qtr. It allows these clubs fans to taste finals. It allows these clubs to have some breathing space when trying to rebuild a club and be stuck with wooden spoons and rubbish coaching appointments for 5 years.
It will never happen but it's always good to discuss things and hey atleast this way we'd be going to games being excited about possibly winning.
Call it a joke. I'm 26 years old and have barracked for Richmond since I was 6. I have seen my team play 4 finals appearances live. I have seen them win only 2 finals games. I may be a bit impatient but I'd just like to be entertained. I don't give a stuff if it's the AFL or AFL div 2. I just want some silverware.
If I haven't explained things well, think how the English Premier League and it's Division 1 and Coca Cola Leagues are run.
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Firstly the maths is off a touch ;). You'd require 22 rounds for Div A and 21 for Div B.
Relegation wouldn't work in AFL for two reasons. We don't have a promotion/relegation culture so supporters/members would drop off and clubs not in Div A would be killed off or at "best" remain second tier teams that would yo-yo from Div A to B. Sponsors and tv rights would move on mass to the Div A clubs. Top players of the Div B clubs would want out to clubs in Div A. Under such a scenario Richmond in its current state would end up in the VFL. We'd become the Leeds Utd of AFL. A formerly successful club with a large supporter base that due to dumb admins sending it broke and coaches having no idea has ended up in the 3rd tier of football.
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Fair call MT.
Sorry you're right about the 22 and 21 rounds.
You may be right about the money, TV rights etc. Ina perfect world it would work, but unfortunately money runs everything.
This all came from having something to play for when your Richmond and your season is always over by round 4 or 5. Fighting to stay up in DivA would be enthralling. There would be the possibility of getting stuck in DivB but with there are ways around that, such as the Draft being weighted to DivB etc.
To help with TV rights and appeal of a 2nd division to sponsors and the corporate sector instead of Divisions we could have Conferences. So both are seen as equal. But with the winner of 1 swapping with the Wooden Spoon of the other.
I dunno. I woudln't overlly mind gong back and playing on Punt road paying $5 entry standing behind the goals, having a kick after the game and playing sides that we can actually be competetive against. The VFL atmosphere is great.
So is the AFL but its very expensive these days and can't remember the last season when the 2nd half of the season we had something to play for.
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No probs Popelord. I remember when I was OS talking to a few blokes from the UK. I was asking them how people still could follow so many professional clubs (100? in England) when only about 4 have a chance now to win the EPL due to it being based purely on $$$. Their answer was no one wants to see their club die which is understandable. When I suggested Soccer could bring in a draft and salary cap to even things up they didn't really comprehend it and they actually thought their lower division club would be financially worse off (which I didn't get).
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No probs Popelord. I remember when I was OS talking to a few blokes from the UK. I was asking them how people still could follow so many professional clubs (100? in England) when only about 4 have a chance now to win the EPL due to it being based purely on $$$. Their answer was no one wants to see their club die which is understandable. When I suggested Soccer could bring in a draft and salary cap to even things up they didn't really comprehend it and they actually thought their lower division club would be financially worse off (which I didn't get).
Except soccer in England would never do that because all the players would simply move OS where there is no draft or salary cap. Soccer is too big globally to ever be driven by anything but the dollar at the top level.
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im sorry pl but it's close to the stpidist idea ive ever heard, if not the worst in top 3 in any case ???....a club would be bankrupt soon as moved from div 1 with no tv rights, sponsorship dollard evaporate membership decline....a forerunner to extinction :o
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No probs Popelord. I remember when I was OS talking to a few blokes from the UK. I was asking them how people still could follow so many professional clubs (100? in England) when only about 4 have a chance now to win the EPL due to it being based purely on $$$. Their answer was no one wants to see their club die which is understandable. When I suggested Soccer could bring in a draft and salary cap to even things up they didn't really comprehend it and they actually thought their lower division club would be financially worse off (which I didn't get).
Except soccer in England would never do that because all the players would simply move OS where there is no draft or salary cap. Soccer is too big globally to ever be driven by anything but the dollar at the top level.
True but I meant hypothetically a global cap. In any case you're right smokey it'll never happen in Soccer. Forgetting about the $$$, even a draft would be a nightmare to implement with 1000s of professional clubs and god knows how many players around the world to allocate.
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Another thing Pope, what happens if Port Adelaide gets relegated to the SANFL and has to play againts Port Adelaide?
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Another thing Pope, what happens if Port Adelaide gets relegated to the SANFL and has to play againts Port Adelaide?
In will be the the most feral inbred drunk uneducated toothless incomprehensible lovefest of a brawl Australia had ever seen.
The police would turn up in handcuffs and arrest the lot of them.
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The police would turn up in handcuffs and arrest the lot of them.
And you would only need 2 cops to arrest the 5 that would be there!! :D
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thought out in the pub :rollin
layoff the booze its smashed your brain cells :lol
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You cant relegate teams out of the competition. Theyd go broke however:
In an 18 team comp. Inc: GC17 and WS
1st division (AFL): 9 teams
2nd division (NFL) : 9 teams
Fixtures: Play each team in your division 2 times= 16 games, Play teams in the other division 1 time.
Final 5 play off in division 1 = AFL Premier
Bottom 2 clubs in Division 1 go to NFL Division 2
Top 2 clubs in Division 2 go to AFL Division 1
Draft and salary cap stays at it is. Things get better in a 20 team competition by bringing in Tasmania and 1 other team. Makes the fixture much much better.
But you cant relegate teams out of the comp, the comp would die in a couple of years.
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Economics make it IMPOSSIBLE :help
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You cant relegate teams out of the competition. Theyd go broke however:
In an 18 team comp. Inc: GC17 and WS
1st division (AFL): 9 teams
2nd division (NFL) : 9 teams
Fixtures: Play each team in your division 2 times= 16 games, Play teams in the other division 1 time.
Final 5 play off in division 1 = AFL Premier
Bottom 2 clubs in Division 1 go to NFL Division 2
Top 2 clubs in Division 2 go to AFL Division 1
Draft and salary cap stays at it is. Things get better in a 20 team competition by bringing in Tasmania and 1 other team. Makes the fixture much much better.
But you cant relegate teams out of the comp, the comp would die in a couple of years.
I really like this one Ramps.
20 teams with Tasmania and NT. 10 in each division, 18 games per season. Start the Division 2 season 1 week before the Division 1 so that the penulitmate week sees Prelim Final 1 on Friday night, Prelim Final 2 on Sat night and Div 2 Grand Final on Sunday, leading into Grand Final week.
All draft and salary cap rules stay as is, TV rights and stadium deals shared to protect the income streams of Div 2 teams. TV rights protect the exposure of Div 2 games by compulsory broadcasting of 'x' games per week.
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The initial structure has more holes than a block of swiss cheese, it was more of a hypothetical to generate discussion.
More or less trying to find a way where we don't have to verse the jugganauts of the AFL year in year out until we are competitive.
Thank god we only had to play Geelong, Saints and Pies once this year.
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AFL already has problems with one-sided matches and blowouts. Despite all the equalization devices it stilll has a major problem. The gap between St Kilda/Geelong and Melbourne/Us is frightening. There is no way you could expect a team to come up from a lower division and be competitive.
There are key differences between the games of AFL and soccer which make relegation possible there and not in AFL.
1. Soccer matches are often decided by one or two goals. If a poor team gets lucky and then works hard to protect theiir lead they can get a favourable result. The afl equivalent of a lucky goal is a lucky 6 goals.
2. In soccer two or three star players can be nullified tactically. Even if they play well the end product may not be goals. How would a VFL player nullify Riewoldt/Kosi? And if those guys play well it will result in goals, no question. All it takes for an AFL game to become a blow out are two or three matchups favouring one-side heavily. This is why you see so many 10+ goal margins and why the AFL is obsessed with the draft to equalise lists. Promoted teams wouldn't stand a chance unless they got 10 new players.
3. I think from a corporate point of view a single league is much better. The reason soccer is promotion/relegation is for historical reasons. I think the premier league from a money perspective would love to abolish promotion/relegation but the fans wouldn't have a bar of it. The afl are unlikely to switch to this model, especially because if it fails, there is no going back.
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It might not be a good indicator but it works fine at local levels.
With football and ever cricket with Multiple Divisions in every league there are teams that have come from Div 3 even 4 and become power houses from following a succession plan, such as building up a Junior club etc.
The good thing about a 2nd Div is that at least teams like Melb, Freo, Rich, North Melbourne play each otehr week in week out whilst still getting first crack at draft picks being in Div 2, they don't have to play the top 8 every 2nd week and lose by 10-20 goals..
Last 2 games:
Rich 68 df by Syd 123
Rich 59 df by Coll 152
With some bad luck add to this season playing one of the top 3 again.. Imgaine if our next 2 games were playing Geel and Saints for a 2nd time...
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It might not be a good indicator but it works fine at local levels.
Interesting.
My local team here in Brisbane, Western Magpies got promoted to AFLQ div 1 last season and are currently 0 from 17 with a % of 45.75.
Maybe works better in the southern states with more player depth..?